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Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
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James Nicoll
2017-04-20 13:16:08 UTC
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Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.

http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read

On going exams mean I am down two reviewers but the other three had a lot
to say.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2017-04-20 14:20:24 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read
On going exams mean I am down two reviewers but the other three had a lot
to say.
Interesting that your first reviewer implicitly assumes the classic and fallacious
false premise: that all men are identical and that all women are identical
(for the domain under discussion). I haven't read "Houston, Houston" in
decades, maybe Sheldon did the same?
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Stephen Graham
2017-04-20 18:50:24 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Interesting that your first reviewer implicitly assumes the classic and fallacious
false premise: that all men are identical and that all women are identical
(for the domain under discussion). I haven't read "Houston, Houston" in
decades, maybe Sheldon did the same?
Sheldon definitely doesn't make that mistake. Only the "twins" are even
close to identical. Not that we get in-depth characterization of
everyone involved.
Dan Tilque
2017-04-22 07:18:59 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read
It's unfortunate that you chose one of her weaker stories. She has lots
of good ones, and that one's not bad, but it's hardly her best.
--
Dan Tilque
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-22 14:04:04 UTC
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Post by Dan Tilque
Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read
It's unfortunate that you chose one of her weaker stories. She has lots
of good ones, and that one's not bad, but it's hardly her best.
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience. I say go further - hit them
with a couple of stinkers. (But not all in
succession so that they get demoralised.)

I wonder if there are many stories that a new
audience will like better than the original
readers did?
Quadibloc
2017-04-22 15:28:34 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.

And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-22 16:29:02 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.

As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-22 17:00:26 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think
that only
Post by Quadibloc
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes
towards women
Post by Quadibloc
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like
unto Quaker
Post by Quadibloc
Life cereal in the famous commercial.
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Or _Walk to the End of the World_?
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2017-04-22 19:30:42 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.
Post by Robert Carnegie
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-22 21:23:37 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.
I eat it (the British and Canadian one), but
in the cheaper supermarket clone version, and
as snack, not breakfast. I bear in mind that
cereal originally was promoted as a health
product only in combination with yogurt enemas.
J. Clarke
2017-04-22 21:33:28 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.
That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.
I eat it (the British and Canadian one), but
in the cheaper supermarket clone version, and
as snack, not breakfast. I bear in mind that
cereal originally was promoted as a health
product only in combination with yogurt enemas.
FWIW, Wheat Chex and its companion products Rice Chex, Corn Chex, and in
recent times Multi-Grain Chex have been promoted as snack foods as long as
I can remember. Going back into the '60s the packages came with recipes
for "Chex Party Mix" consisting of a combination of Chex cereals with
seasonings and other ingredients, and now you can buy it pre-packaged.

<https://www.chex.com/recipes/original-chex-mix/>
Greg Goss
2017-04-23 02:09:15 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-23 11:40:08 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
The ones I buy seem to come as an equal mixture
of squares and regular quadrilaterals.
Greg Goss
2017-04-23 16:10:46 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?
Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
The ones I buy seem to come as an equal mixture
of squares and regular quadrilaterals.
(The anniversary promotion made a big deal of their "diamond" ones on
TV ads and billboards etc. A diamond shape is, of course, a square
shown rotated.)
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Quadibloc
2017-04-23 18:14:16 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
(The anniversary promotion made a big deal of their "diamond" ones on
TV ads and billboards etc. A diamond shape is, of course, a square
shown rotated.)
I mentioned Diamond Shreddies a while back in another newsgroup. I noted that if
one had equipment that allowed one to drill holes in a printed circuit board at
distances that could be specified in even decimal fractions of an inch -
one-tenth of an inch spacing, one-twentieth, 0.075", and so on and so forth, one
could make an integrated circuit in a square package that would seem to be
impossible to put on such a board...

where the spacing of the pins was something like sqrt(2)/20 inches, say,

one would just have to mount the socket at a 45 degree angle.

Sort of the _opposite_ of Diamond Shreddies, since here the rotation would
conceal a non-obvious *real* difference. (I also mentioned the option of
mounting integrated circuits at other angles not requiring irrational spacing -
say on the diagonal of the 3-4-5 Pythagorean triangle.)

John Savard
Quadibloc
2017-04-23 18:16:46 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.
Here is the commercial I'm thinking of:



for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.

The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-23 19:17:22 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.
http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.
The connection with this particular exercise
in exposing young people to old science-fiction
and fantasy should be obvious.
Hmm. I think the "Young People Read Old SFF"
sessions may not look exactly like that -
but, I'm not there.
Quadibloc
2017-04-23 21:18:00 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Hmm. I think the "Young People Read Old SFF"
sessions may not look exactly like that -
but, I'm not there.
I'm not saying they do, but I still think the connection is obvious.

John Savard
Kevrob
2017-04-24 01:26:19 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.
http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.
Full-length version:



Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.

ObSF: The fake newspaper printed on the back of the boxes,
"The Chex Press," was the work of Ron Goulart.

http://greatbutforgotten.blogspot.com/2008/05/morning-chex-press.html

http://www.mrbreakfast.com/cereal_ucp_slideshow.asp?id=311&picid=374

The Chex Press was the only exception to the usual "no
reading at the table" rule.
Post by Quadibloc
The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.
Kevin R
J. Clarke
2017-04-24 03:35:54 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.
http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.
The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.
FWIW, the guy who sat behind me at Enormous Aerospace named his kid
"Mikey" after the kid in that commercial.

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