Discussion:
Coule we detect a high tech dinosaur civilization?
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Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-04-23 22:33:43 UTC
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Short answer: Probably.

Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.

Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-
only-civilization/557180/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-23 23:27:55 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
Which could happen as a result of things other than civilization.
The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed heavily to the Permian
terminal extinction.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-04-23 23:52:25 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
Which could happen as a result of things other than
civilization. The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed heavily
to the Permian terminal extinction.
That is covered in the article. Specifically covered. The geological
record shows things that indicate changes in CO2 levels greater than
we have seen in the last couple of centuries, but only over the
course of 100,000 years or more. Never as quickly as we are currently
seeing.

As I said, we could probably detect signs, but only if we were
looking for things we don't normally look for.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Johnny1A
2018-04-24 03:05:18 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
Which could happen as a result of things other than
civilization. The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed heavily
to the Permian terminal extinction.
That is covered in the article. Specifically covered. The geological
record shows things that indicate changes in CO2 levels greater than
we have seen in the last couple of centuries, but only over the
course of 100,000 years or more. Never as quickly as we are currently
seeing.
As I said, we could probably detect signs, but only if we were
looking for things we don't normally look for.
And it would require us to be willing to admit to ourselves that we were seeing what we were seeing, if we saw it.
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-04-24 05:49:06 UTC
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On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 6:52:27 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial
activity can and has latered the earth's environment (but in
ways that anybody with a high school chemistry set could
check for themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the
atmosphere.)
Which could happen as a result of things other than
civilization. The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed
heavily to the Permian terminal extinction.
That is covered in the article. Specifically covered. The
geological record shows things that indicate changes in CO2
levels greater than we have seen in the last couple of
centuries, but only over the course of 100,000 years or more.
Never as quickly as we are currently seeing.
As I said, we could probably detect signs, but only if we were
looking for things we don't normally look for.
And it would require us to be willing to admit to ourselves that
we were seeing what we were seeing, if we saw it.
It is hard to imagine it'd be accepted on the first try. But if the
evidence is there, odds are it would be eventually.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
m***@sky.com
2018-04-24 07:20:08 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-
only-civilization/557180/
https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5
--
Terry Austin
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-04-24 15:45:03 UTC
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On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earth
s- only-civilization/557180/
https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5
--
Terry Austin
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be
around.
Only if you expand "tech" to include some pretty fuzzy social
factors that have nothing to do with technology.

(And maybe it still is. Just not *here*. Or, if you're into
conspiracy theories, it *is* still here, but the lizard people who
really run the world disguise themselves as humans. Speaking of
which, season 3 of People of Earth should be coming up soon.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-04-24 18:54:05 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earth
s- only-civilization/557180/
https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5
--
Terry Austin
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be
around.
Only if you expand "tech" to include some pretty fuzzy social
factors that have nothing to do with technology.
(And maybe it still is. Just not *here*. Or, if you're into
conspiracy theories, it *is* still here, but the lizard people who
really run the world disguise themselves as humans. Speaking of
which, season 3 of People of Earth should be coming up soon.)
And 'Iron Sky: The Coming Race' is promised to be released this year.



--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-24 19:34:45 UTC
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Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.

Lynn
Leo Sgouros
2018-04-24 21:07:30 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
Chris Buckley
2018-04-24 21:19:04 UTC
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Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources needed
to have a large effect on civilization become more and more available
to smaller and smaller groups of people. I would guess our
civilization's stability will continue to decrease as tech gets
higher, unless the tech can become high enough so we can survive our
"mistakes".

Chris
Leo Sgouros
2018-04-24 21:28:36 UTC
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Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources needed
to have a large effect on civilization become more and more available
to smaller and smaller groups of people. I would guess our
civilization's stability will continue to decrease as tech gets
higher, unless the tech can become high enough so we can survive our
"mistakes".
Chris
Perhaps, but as the complexity rises, at some point a discontinuity becomes catastrophic, like, I don't know, a solar event. There is also the situation where some day the machines do everything including make the stuff the few use to "control the many", as my inner child interpreted a part of your post. If I were me, I'd make friends with the top node intelligence robot.
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-24 22:07:28 UTC
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Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources needed
to have a large effect on civilization become more and more available
to smaller and smaller groups of people. I would guess our
civilization's stability will continue to decrease as tech gets
higher, unless the tech can become high enough so we can survive our
"mistakes".
Chris
I forgot about MAD. 20,000 nuclear ICBMs would wipe out civilization.

And asteroid mining is getting ready to start happening in the next 10 ?
20 ? 30 ? years. One screwup and some idiot drops a 100 million ton
asteroid in the Pacific / Atlantic / Switzerland / etc.

https://bgr.com/2018/04/23/asteroid-mining-trillionaire-goldman-sachs-report/

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-04-24 22:20:28 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Chris Buckley
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial
activity can and has latered the earth's environment (but
in ways that anybody with a high school chemistry set could
check for themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the
atmosphere.)
...
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out
a civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility,
barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources
needed to have a large effect on civilization become more and
more available to smaller and smaller groups of people. I
would guess our civilization's stability will continue to
decrease as tech gets higher, unless the tech can become high
enough so we can survive our "mistakes".
Chris
I forgot about MAD. 20,000 nuclear ICBMs would wipe out
civilization.
Until the tech is high enough to defend against nukes effectively.
(You seem to be assuming that we are currently at the highest tech
possible, ever, for anyone. And it's as silly an assumption as it
sounds when you say it out loud.)
Post by Lynn McGuire
And asteroid mining is getting ready to start happening in the
next 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? years. One screwup and some idiot drops a
100 million ton asteroid in the Pacific / Atlantic / Switzerland
/ etc.
https://bgr.com/2018/04/23/asteroid-mining-trillionaire-goldman-s
achs-report/
They only thing they're planning to mind is the bank accounts of
their investors.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-24 22:31:54 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial
activity can and has latered the earth's environment (but
in ways that anybody with a high school chemistry set could
check for themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the
atmosphere.)
...
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out
a civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility,
barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources
needed to have a large effect on civilization become more and
more available to smaller and smaller groups of people. I
would guess our civilization's stability will continue to
decrease as tech gets higher, unless the tech can become high
enough so we can survive our "mistakes".
Chris
I forgot about MAD. 20,000 nuclear ICBMs would wipe out
civilization.
Until the tech is high enough to defend against nukes effectively.
(You seem to be assuming that we are currently at the highest tech
possible, ever, for anyone. And it's as silly an assumption as it
sounds when you say it out loud.)
...

You are correct. I forgot about _The Peace War_.
https://www.amazon.com/Peace-War-Vernor-Vinge/dp/0765308835/

Lynn
Kevrob
2018-04-24 21:46:13 UTC
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Post by Leo Sgouros
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
There have been plenty parodies such as.....

"Gonad, The Barbarian" :)

https://www.comics.org/issue/335770/cover/4/

Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-04-24 21:49:50 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Leo Sgouros
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
There have been plenty parodies such as.....
"Gonad, The Barbarian" :)
https://www.comics.org/issue/335770/cover/4/
Kevin R
Oglaf.com's Cronar The Barbarian is so fertile he begets babies on men.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-04-25 08:42:28 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
Post by Leo Sgouros
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
There have been plenty parodies such as.....
"Gonad, The Barbarian" :)
https://www.comics.org/issue/335770/cover/4/
Oglaf.com's Cronar The Barbarian is so fertile he begets babies on men.
That seems to be a normal thing in the tribe/species he comes from,
rather than a personal characteristic.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Don't let nouns get in the way of a good time" -- Jasper Fforde
Greg Goss
2018-04-25 01:11:07 UTC
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Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Harold Hill
2018-04-30 18:41:35 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
"Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L. Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the tum and a predilection for little fur hats."

</ob sf>
--
-Harold Hill
Peter Trei
2018-04-30 18:53:41 UTC
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Post by Harold Hill
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
"Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L. Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the tum and a predilection for little fur hats."
</ob sf>
Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's prolific
sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.

A lot of people do genealogy, and are overjoyed to discover they have descent
from (for example) Edward III or Charlemagne. The problem is that if you go back
a few hundred years, pretty much everyone has either zero 21st century
descendants, or thousands of them.

pt
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-30 21:58:38 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Harold Hill
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
"Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L. Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the tum and a predilection for little fur hats."
</ob sf>
Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's prolific
sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.
If that factoid is valid, I think it did not go
entirely unsuspected. I mean, there wouldn't be
thousands of women going "Who was that masked man
with the vast horde of Mongol warriors?"
Cryptoengineer
2018-05-01 01:36:25 UTC
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Post by Harold Hill
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Harold Hill
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Leo Sgouros
Post by Lynn McGuire
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians,
etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct
-de scendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
"Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct
male-
line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and
racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible
Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L.
Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the
tum and a predilection for little fur hats."
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Harold Hill
</ob sf>
Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's
prolif ic sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.
If that factoid is valid, I think it did not go
entirely unsuspected. I mean, there wouldn't be
thousands of women going "Who was that masked man
with the vast horde of Mongol warriors?"
Y-Chromosome evidence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#DNA_evidence

The evidence isn't exactly conclusive, but if you accept it, he may
have 16 million male descendents at the moment, and presumably a
similar number of female descendents.

pt
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-04-24 22:18:05 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
specifically for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be
around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians,
etc, etc, etc.
None of which is related at all to how high tech they are, except in
that high enough tech can avert many of them.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
m***@sky.com
2018-04-25 04:37:50 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
meteoroid strike - as Sagan pointed out, you need a space program

barbarians - Byzantium did pretty well with just exceptional fortifications. If the rest of the Roman empire had had the germ theory of disease and enough practical knowledge of sanitation they would have avoided a number of devastating plagues and waiting out sieges would have been a lot more practical

fertility - the germ theory of disease would allow them to avoid a number of diseases that sterilize.

(the obvious thing I can't handle is wars between factions at the same technology level)
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-25 19:41:13 UTC
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Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
meteoroid strike - as Sagan pointed out, you need a space program
barbarians - Byzantium did pretty well with just exceptional fortifications. If the rest of the Roman empire had had the germ theory of disease and enough practical knowledge of sanitation they would have avoided a number of devastating plagues and waiting out sieges would have been a lot more practical
fertility - the germ theory of disease would allow them to avoid a number of diseases that sterilize.
(the obvious thing I can't handle is wars between factions at the same technology level)
Fertility: Stargate SG1: The Asgard clones of clones of clones start
failing roughly simultaneously and the entire race expires while
fighting off another race of faux gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_(Stargate)

Lynn
Leo Sgouros
2018-04-25 21:03:27 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
...
Post by m***@sky.com
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
Lynn
meteoroid strike - as Sagan pointed out, you need a space program
barbarians - Byzantium did pretty well with just exceptional fortifications. If the rest of the Roman empire had had the germ theory of disease and enough practical knowledge of sanitation they would have avoided a number of devastating plagues and waiting out sieges would have been a lot more practical
fertility - the germ theory of disease would allow them to avoid a number of diseases that sterilize.
(the obvious thing I can't handle is wars between factions at the same technology level)
Fertility: Stargate SG1: The Asgard clones of clones of clones start
failing roughly simultaneously and the entire race expires while
fighting off another race of faux gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_(Stargate)
Lynn
I wrote a short fanfic resurrecting them. I took the idea of the repository of knowledge on P3R-272 and decided there was an Asgard repository on a different wall of the enclosure. I chose Jonas Quinn's populace,the Langarans because they have more RAM, as the resurrected Asgard.
I hated the Stargate ending. Ragnarok my skinny white ass.
larry
2018-04-29 13:04:47 UTC
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Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Short answer: Probably.
Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.
Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-
only-civilization/557180/
https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5
--
Terry Austin
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs.
--
After investigation, believe that which you have yourselves
tested and found reasonable, and which is for your good
and that of others.
Gautama.
s***@yahoo.com
2018-05-06 13:11:13 UTC
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The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.

Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-05-06 16:28:58 UTC
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Post by s***@yahoo.com
The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.
Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.
Soc.history.what-if is not down. Google responded to all the complaints
of people spamming if via Google Groups by blocking the newsgroup rather
than the spammers. Access an actual usenet server and there are people
still posting there.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Kevrob
2018-05-06 19:27:18 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by s***@yahoo.com
The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.
Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.
Soc.history.what-if is not down. Google responded to all the complaints
of people spamming if via Google Groups by blocking the newsgroup rather
than the spammers. Access an actual usenet server and there are people
still posting there.
...or:

http://soc.history.what-if.narkive.com/

Kevin R

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