Discussion:
Top 10 Mothers in Science Fiction and Fantasy
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Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-05-13 06:10:27 UTC
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https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/

As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.

I would add:

"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.

Edith Fellowes

Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..

The Unmarried Mother

Cecelia Beamer, mined..

and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
D B Davis
2018-05-13 12:54:22 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Clare DeTamble, _The Time Traveler's Wife_ (Niffenegger)
Rachel Brady, _Radio Free Albemuth_ (PDK)
Mrs Everdeen, _The Hunger Games_ (Collins)
Mrs Parsons, "The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree)
Do "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" (Lafferty) count?



Thank you,
--
Don
Robert Carnegie
2018-05-13 13:17:24 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
J. Clarke
2018-05-13 13:38:41 UTC
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
How about Ishka, Quark's Moogie. She despite all manner of obstacle
managed to reform Ferengi society and get one of her kids appointed
Grand Negus.
Robert Carnegie
2018-05-13 14:30:36 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
How about Ishka, Quark's Moogie. She despite all manner of obstacle
managed to reform Ferengi society and get one of her kids appointed
Grand Negus.
Oh yeah! Descended from the famous antique trader:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Negus>

Which I guess makes _DS9_ "Antiques Roadshow to the stars".
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-13 15:29:05 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to
written SF.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
How about Ishka, Quark's Moogie. She despite all manner of obstacle
managed to reform Ferengi society and get one of her kids appointed
Grand Negus.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Negus>
Which I guess makes _DS9_ "Antiques Roadshow to the stars".
Maybe not. _Negus_ is Amharic for "king."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
J. Clarke
2018-05-13 15:57:00 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to
written SF.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
How about Ishka, Quark's Moogie. She despite all manner of obstacle
managed to reform Ferengi society and get one of her kids appointed
Grand Negus.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Negus>
Which I guess makes _DS9_ "Antiques Roadshow to the stars".
Maybe not. _Negus_ is Amharic for "king."
And seems to be Ferengi for "Ross Boss".
Robert Carnegie
2018-05-13 19:55:18 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to
written SF.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Only one there from Star Trek? There must be a quota?
Amanda, Beverly, Lwxana, and The Horta, just off the
top of my head. K'Ehleyr would make more lists if not
for the difficulty of spelling, and even though she
mostly got herself and the Enterprise-D into trouble.
While Worf got her into trouble. :-)
How about Ishka, Quark's Moogie. She despite all manner of obstacle
managed to reform Ferengi society and get one of her kids appointed
Grand Negus.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Negus>
Which I guess makes _DS9_ "Antiques Roadshow to the stars".
Maybe not. _Negus_ is Amharic for "king."
Interesting!
Post by J. Clarke
And seems to be Ferengi for "Ross Boss".
[*]

By the way, the Ferengi term seems to be "Grand Nagus",
so, less connected to _Going For a Song_, etc.

"Grand" seems to be an epithet, to the singular title;
I don't recall other lesser Naguses getting involved,
but I have not followed the series closely enough to
be quite sure.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-05-13 13:33:10 UTC
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What, no Medea?
D B Davis
2018-05-13 13:33:14 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Clare DeTamble, _The Time Traveler's Wife_ (Niffenegger)
Rachel Brady, _Radio Free Albemuth_ (PDK)
Mrs Everdeen, _The Hunger Games_ (Collins)
Mrs Parsons, "The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree)
Jane, "All You Zombies" (RAH) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jane Walton, "The Father Thing" (PKD)
Mary McClean, "Breakfast at Twilight" (PKD)
Mrs Bates, _Psycho_ (Bloch)
Mrs Crane, _The Haunting of Hill House_ (Jackson)
Wendy Torrance, _The Shining_ (King)
Do "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" (Lafferty) count?



Thank you,
--
Don
D B Davis
2018-05-13 13:51:36 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Clare DeTamble, _The Time Traveler's Wife_ (Niffenegger)
Rachel Brady, _Radio Free Albemuth_ (PDK)
Mrs Everdeen, _The Hunger Games_ (Collins)
Mrs Parsons, "The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree)
Jane, "All You Zombies" (RAH) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jane Walton, "The Father Thing" (PKD)
Mary McClean, "Breakfast at Twilight" (PKD)
Mrs Bates, _Psycho_ (Bloch)
Mrs Crane, _The Haunting of Hill House_ (Jackson)
Wendy Torrance, _The Shining_ (King)
Katherine Murry, _A Wrinkle in Time_ (L'Engle)
Do "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" (Lafferty) count?



Thank you,
--
Don
D B Davis
2018-05-13 14:32:24 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Clare DeTamble, _The Time Traveler's Wife_ (Niffenegger)
Rachel Brady, _Radio Free Albemuth_ (PDK)
Mrs Everdeen, _The Hunger Games_ (Collins)
Mrs Parsons, "The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree)
Jane, "All You Zombies" (RAH) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jane Walton, "The Father Thing" (PKD)
Mary McClean, "Breakfast at Twilight" (PKD)
Mrs Bates, _Psycho_ (Bloch)
Mrs Crane, _The Haunting of Hill House_ (Jackson)
Wendy Torrance, _The Shining_ (King)
Katherine Murry, _A Wrinkle in Time_ (L'Engle)
Mrs LaFarge, "The Martian" (Bradbury)
Hazel Bergeron, "Harrison Bergeron" (Vonnegut)
Valencia Merble and Montana Wildhack, _Slaughterhouse-Five_ (Vonnegut)
Do "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" (Lafferty) count?



Thank you,
--
Don
D B Davis
2018-05-13 14:46:12 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
Clare DeTamble, _The Time Traveler's Wife_ (Niffenegger)
Rachel Brady, _Radio Free Albemuth_ (PDK)
Mrs Everdeen, _The Hunger Games_ (Collins)
Mrs Parsons, "The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree)
Jane, "All You Zombies" (RAH) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jane Walton, "The Father Thing" (PKD)
Mary McClean, "Breakfast at Twilight" (PKD)
Mrs Bates, _Psycho_ (Bloch)
Mrs Crane, _The Haunting of Hill House_ (Jackson)
Wendy Torrance, _The Shining_ (King)
Katherine Murry, _A Wrinkle in Time_ (L'Engle)
Mrs LaFarge, "The Martian" (Bradbury)
Hazel Bergeron, "Harrison Bergeron" (Vonnegut)
Valencia Merble and Montana Wildhack, _Slaughterhouse-Five_ (Vonnegut)
Mary Rice, _Jumper_ (Gould)
Pamela Robison, _Replay_ (Grimwood)
Do "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" (Lafferty) count?

That was fun. And it pushed Supersedes: to the limit. ;0)



Thank you,
--
Don
Lee Gleason
2018-05-13 19:37:53 UTC
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Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the greats (Del
Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring the US via jet, after
the nuclear war, and comes back to find his wife has given birth to a
mutant? It was a big deal at the time it was published, can't quire recall
who wrote it...

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Ahasuerus
2018-05-13 19:50:53 UTC
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Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Lee Gleason
2018-05-13 20:17:37 UTC
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Post by Ahasuerus
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yep, that's it. Thanks!

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-13 21:01:30 UTC
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Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-05-14 01:01:32 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
"That Only A Mother," Judith Merrill.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-14 01:06:42 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
"That Only A Mother," Judith Merrill.
That was the first one I suggested.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
J. Clarke
2018-05-14 01:35:14 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
"That Only A Mother," Judith Merrill.
That was the first one I suggested.
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Moriarty
2018-05-14 02:49:45 UTC
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On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 11:35:23 AM UTC+10, J. Clarke wrote:

<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?

-Moriarty
J. Clarke
2018-05-14 03:19:08 UTC
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?
Was her mother married to him? I don't recall. Although Paul is
"Atreides" even though she and the Duke were never married so I guess
it doesn't really matter.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-05-14 04:53:51 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?
Was her mother married to him? I don't recall. Although Paul is
"Atreides" even though she and the Duke were never married so I guess
it doesn't really matter.
The Duke acknowledged Paul as both his son and his heir. I can't
remember but think Jessica didn't know she was Harkonnen. After all,
the breeding plan was to breed her daughter with a Harkonnen.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Moriarty
2018-05-14 05:55:56 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?
Was her mother married to him?
Not that we know of (but see below) and Jessica was unaware of the relationship. So my suggestion doesn't really work.
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by J. Clarke
I don't recall. Although Paul is
"Atreides" even though she and the Duke were never married so I guess
it doesn't really matter.
The Duke acknowledged Paul as both his son and his heir. I can't
remember but think Jessica didn't know she was Harkonnen. After all,
the breeding plan was to breed her daughter with a Harkonnen.
Hmm, I've just read the wikipedia entry on Lady Jessica. In the retconning by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson, Jessica's mother turns out to have been Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, based apparently on notes left behind by Frank Herbert.

So if she has a surname it's either Harkonnen, Mohiam, a hyphenated Harkonnen-Mohiam or Mohiam-Harkonnen, or Atreides.

Then again, it could be something like FitzHarkonnen, due to her illegitimacy. Or even a Game of Thrones style generic surname for bastards such as Jessica Snow.

Whatever.

-Moriarty
Titus G
2018-05-14 05:03:57 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?
Was her mother married to him? I don't recall. Although Paul is
"Atreides" even though she and the Duke were never married so I guess
it doesn't really matter.
After the discussion thread here about Paul's destiny as a God and as I
had enjoyed several Frank Herbert novels in recent years, I re-read Dune
and Dune Messiah last month and just loved Dune. Still 5 stars from me.
Dune Messiah was too full of angst, slow and dreary in comparison as
forewarned. I don't want more stories of Dune unless they approach the
grandeur of Dune so will probably not read any more of the series.
Any opinions, either way?
Juho Julkunen
2018-05-14 14:31:53 UTC
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Post by Titus G
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 13 May 2018 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Wouldn't her last name be Harkonnen?
Was her mother married to him? I don't recall. Although Paul is
"Atreides" even though she and the Duke were never married so I guess
it doesn't really matter.
After the discussion thread here about Paul's destiny as a God and as I
had enjoyed several Frank Herbert novels in recent years, I re-read Dune
and Dune Messiah last month and just loved Dune. Still 5 stars from me.
Dune Messiah was too full of angst, slow and dreary in comparison as
forewarned. I don't want more stories of Dune unless they approach the
grandeur of Dune so will probably not read any more of the series.
Any opinions, either way?
Lots of folks who didn't like _Messiah_ still like _Children_.

Some folks also think _God Emperor_ and/or _Heretics_/_Chapter House_
combo are Dune level grand. The scale is certainly a lot bigger than in
_Messiah_, in both time and space.

Personally, I liked _Messiah_, and thougth _Children_ was a bit of a
mess. Every other time I read _God Emperor_ I thought it was boring and
plodding, and every other time I thought it was awesome and riveting.
It's a polarizing book, but it is the fulcrum point for the series as a
whole. I consider _Heretics_ and _Chapter House_ essentially a two-
parter, and while they could have used a little more editing, they are
a pretty epic adventure with some sufficiently out there stuff.
--
Juho Julkunen
Moriarty
2018-05-16 00:39:35 UTC
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<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Titus G
After the discussion thread here about Paul's destiny as a God and as I
had enjoyed several Frank Herbert novels in recent years, I re-read Dune
and Dune Messiah last month and just loved Dune. Still 5 stars from me.
Dune Messiah was too full of angst, slow and dreary in comparison as
forewarned. I don't want more stories of Dune unless they approach the
grandeur of Dune so will probably not read any more of the series.
Any opinions, either way?
Lots of folks who didn't like _Messiah_ still like _Children_.
Some folks also think _God Emperor_ and/or _Heretics_/_Chapter House_
combo are Dune level grand. The scale is certainly a lot bigger than in
_Messiah_, in both time and space.
Personally, I liked _Messiah_, and thougth _Children_ was a bit of a
mess. Every other time I read _God Emperor_ I thought it was boring and
plodding, and every other time I thought it was awesome and riveting.
It's a polarizing book, but it is the fulcrum point for the series as a
whole. I consider _Heretics_ and _Chapter House_ essentially a two-
parter, and while they could have used a little more editing, they are
a pretty epic adventure with some sufficiently out there stuff.
Throwing in my 2 cents, as a result of that same thread/discussion about Paul and Leto, I recently re-read _Dune Messiah_, having read it only once previously in the early 80s. I've re-read _Dune_ multiple times since then but never any of the sequels.

I liked it a lot more than I did the first time around and I'll be starting on _Children_ soon too. It certainly lacks the sweeping grandiose adventure of the masterpiece, and focuses a little too much on palace politics for my taste but it's obviously laying groundwork for later events, particularly the climax and outcome of _God Emperor_.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-14 03:59:23 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow’s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
"That Only A Mother," Judith Merrill.
That was the first one I suggested.
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Unless it was a patrinominal culture and her last name was
Atreides.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Juho Julkunen
2018-05-14 14:37:37 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the
greats (Del Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring
the US via jet, after the nuclear war, and comes back to find his
wife has given birth to a mutant? It was a big deal at the time it
was published, can't quire recall who wrote it...
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
"Tomorrow?s Children" (1947) by Poul Anderson and F. N. Waldrop --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45667
Yup, that's another. Also Padgett's _Mutant_. And more recently
Zelazny's _This Immortal_. And lots more.
"That Only A Mother," Judith Merrill.
That was the first one I suggested.
Then there was the Lady Jessica whose last name I don't believe we
ever learned, the mother of Muad'Dib.
Unless it was a patrinominal culture and her last name was
Atreides.
She's listed in the Almanak en-Ashraf (Appenix IV of _Dune_) as "Lady
Jessica (hon. Atreides)".
--
Juho Julkunen
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-13 21:00:39 UTC
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Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the greats (Del
Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring the US via jet, after
the nuclear war, and comes back to find his wife has given birth to a
mutant? It was a big deal at the time it was published, can't quire recall
who wrote it...
Oh, gosh, there were so many on those general lines. It might be
Judith Merrill's "That Only a Mother." I can't remember whether
the father was exploring by jet, but he was away during the birth
and for several weeks thereafter.

Most of the story is in the form of the mother's diary entries,
going on about how there are so many stillbirths and deformities
because of the radiation.... "But MY BABY's all right!"

By the time the kid's father comes home, she's talking.

And only then does the father (and the reader) realize....

This is a story from the 1950s, but I suppose I'll put in a
SPOILER WARNING anyway ....













... that the child has no arms or legs.

But, as I said, there were *lots* of mutant-children-after-atomic-
war stories in the 1950s.

Particularly, of course, Shiras's _Children of the Atom._

And it's turned out since that radiation doesn't produce
mutations, except unfavorable ones that don't survive, and
particularly not superhumanly favorable ones. But we didn't know
that in the fifties.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lee Gleason
2018-05-16 03:12:29 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lee Gleason
Does anyone recall the short story from the 50s, by one of the greats (Del
Rey maybe, or Sturgeon) where a guy has been exploring the US via jet, after
the nuclear war, and comes back to find his wife has given birth to a
mutant? It was a big deal at the time it was published, can't quire recall
who wrote it...
Oh, gosh, there were so many on those general lines. It might be
Judith Merrill's "That Only a Mother." I can't remember whether
the father was exploring by jet, but he was away during the birth
and for several weeks thereafter.
Thanks - that's definitely the story I was trying to recall.

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Garrett Wollman
2018-05-13 22:11:16 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
Well, it's from eight years ago, and only a top-ten list, so I'll give
them some slack. And I'll credit them for Cordelia. But seriously,
has this writer read NO YA SFF AT ALL? How about Mrs. Callahan (RIP)
and Mrs. Rodriguez from Diane Duane's Young Wizards, just to start?

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
a***@yahoo.com
2018-05-14 02:13:03 UTC
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The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu. I don't remember her name, but she had quite the Origami talent.
Juho Julkunen
2018-05-14 14:42:11 UTC
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In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@loft.tnolan.com
says...
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
No Clarissa Kinnison (née MacDougall)?
--
Juho Julkunen
Moriarty
2018-05-16 00:23:02 UTC
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Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
No Clarissa Kinnison (née MacDougall)?
I thought she was a notable omission. I guess it's a sign as to how invisible Smith's work these days, even to SF fans.

-Moriarty
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-05-16 02:40:08 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
No Clarissa Kinnison (née MacDougall)?
I thought she was a notable omission. I guess it's a sign as to how
invisible Smith's work these days, even to SF fans.
-Moriarty
She's a major character, but not really as a mother as I recall.

I mean, yes, she and Kimball had The Children Of The Lens, but I don't
recall any story points of her rearing them, or defending them from
Eddore or buying them ice cream or whatever.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-16 04:02:03 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
Post by Juho Julkunen
No Clarissa Kinnison (née MacDougall)?
I thought she was a notable omission. I guess it's a sign as to how
invisible Smith's work these days, even to SF fans.
She's a major character, but not really as a mother as I recall.
I mean, yes, she and Kimball had The Children Of The Lens, but I don't
recall any story points of her rearing them, or defending them from
Eddore or buying them ice cream or whatever.
They are already young adults when we meet them, and more
advanced for their age than anyone, including their parents,
suspects. (But not, apparently, sexually mature.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lynn McGuire
2018-05-16 00:15:15 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://www.wired.com/2010/05/top-10-mothers-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy/
As per usual for this type of listicle, there are more media references
than not, but this one actually does have good representation to written SF.
"The Mother Thing", because, well the name, and she's pretty cool.
Edith Fellowes
Maureen Long, Oedipus Schmoedipus, as long as a boy loves his mother..
The Unmarried Mother
Cecelia Beamer, mined..
and several more that will come to me immediately as I press 'send'.
1. Mother Mastiff of Flinx

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Mother-Not-Adventures-Pip-Flinx/dp/0345346890/

2. Baslim the Beggar (male mother) of Thorby
https://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Galaxy-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1416505520/

Lynn
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