Post by James Nicoll Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan> Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy Post by Greg Goss Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Falkenberg's Legion's Codominium comes to mind. And there are
elements of that in the Sten books.
Pournelle's Co-dominium runs much longer than his Falkenberg series.
Yeah, it does. But the subject of this thread is most overt in the
Falkenberg's Legion stuff.
Nnow that I think about it, Blish's Cith In Flight is nearly
identical in the poltiical set up of the earlier stories (in internal
chronology, that is).
And now that I think about it, in the later Sten books, the Eternal
Emperor is conspiring with his own people against . . . himself. Not
exatly what OP was talking about, but close.
Post by Greg Goss
I think his "future history" of it has the union between
the US and the Soviets before our time.
Yeah. It get a little weird in places.
That alway struck me as odd (in retrospect admittedly) in that
I wouldn't have expected Pournelle to be bullish on the SU longterm.
Well, he did used to be a card-carrying red. Also, one of the odder
defining characteristics of the American far right is their conviction
the enemy of the day is far stronger than the US, even when their
ideology should convince them the Big Bad is self-doomed.
James Burnham called his column in NATIONAL REVIEW "The Protracted
Struggle." The ethic was "we aren't going to be caught napping the
way Free Europe was when the Fascists and Nazis gained power. We will
stand watch against the new barbarians, even if we are doomed to lose
the long battle." and many of the Cold Warriors thought they were on
the losing side, Whittaker Chambers, for one. Most of the ex-lefties
who switched sides to become Cold Warriors traded in Marxism for religion.
Conversion to Catholicism or High Church Anglicanism was popular,
a la C S Lewis. Frank Meyer, a W F Buckley Jr mentor moved from the CP
through libertarianism to traditionalism and then became an RC. The
hope of victory there is more in the afterlife. There was no promise
from the ghodz that "the good guys" would win in the end, excepting
the battle of Armageddon
ObSF: Wilson and Shea took WFB's slogan version of Eric Vogelin's
warning, "Don't immanentize the eschaton!" and ran with it. YAFers
used to wear that on pin-back buttons. Nancy Lebov would probably
have sold them to fen at cons.
People who predicted the inevitable downfall of the USSR were
often derided by mid-20th century conservatives and Cold Warriors
as foolishly optimistic types, unwilling to come to grips with the
fallen nature of humanity. Isildur had effed up by not destroying
the Ring, and the West was screwed. You still had to rage against
the dying of the light, so no stinting on the defense budget and
if you had to waste X-thousand soldiers lives before the East Bloc
swallowed another chunk of real estate, so be it.
Pournelle extrapolating the continuance of the CCCP, in an era
when "convergence theory" was the rage isn't strange. The first
story, "A Spaceship for the King," expanded into King David's
Spaceship" was from 1973. "Rollback" of Soviet and Chinese
advances wasn't on the table in those days of Vietnamization
of the Indo-China war,Brandt's Ostpolitik and the feared Findlandization
of Western Europe. Not losing any more ground to the Red Horde
would have been taken as progress. It wasn't until the 1983
US invasion of Grenada that any rollback happened.
A political science student in the second half of the 1970s and a bit
of the 80s.