Discussion:
On the movie "A Wrinkle in Time" and what they left out...grrr
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l***@yahoo.com
2018-03-08 23:06:06 UTC
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How could they do that to Meg, especially?

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/3/7/17091370/wrinkle-in-time-review-oprah-witherspoon-kaling-reid-duvernay-madeleine-lengle-christian





Lenona.
D B Davis
2018-03-16 20:10:24 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
How could they do that to Meg, especially?
https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/3/7/17091370/wrinkle-in-time-review-oprah-witherspoon-kaling-reid-duvernay-madeleine-lengle-christian
It hardly surprises me that Hollywood's treatment excises Christian
content from the story and makes no effort whatsoever to appeal to
Christian audiences. Oprah also happens to be box office poison to me
due to her long association with Weinstein.
That aside, allow me to note Michael Stemper's essay on
"A Wrinkle in Time" (L'Engle). [1] It gives readers an impression of the
Christian content excised by Hollywood's treatment.

Note.

1. http://www.math.wisc.edu/~mstemper2/SpecFic/Wrinkle

Thank you,

--
Don
l***@yahoo.com
2018-03-20 23:53:49 UTC
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Actually, I was thinking more of the erasure of most of her scientific knowledge. Also (quote):

...Similarly, Meg’s deep disappointment with her father and her anger at his inability to solve things once he’s found has mostly disappeared from the story — but it’s that very experience, of discovering that adults can’t always fix the world and knowing you need to take charge yourself, that makes Meg’s journey in the novel so instantly recognizable to every young teen. (Reading those passages in the book, you can’t help but think of the teenage Parkland school shooting survivors.)

In the movie, Meg’s “faults” — one of the most important parts of the novel — are not so much her temper and her self-pity and her shortsightedness; now, her faults are more like timidity and being scared of heights and bullies.

It feels as if the film is afraid to let Meg be a real girl, afraid to unfurl evil’s true capacity and make clear the danger in fighting it. What’s left approaches the level of platitudes...

(snip)
l***@yahoo.com
2018-03-21 15:56:28 UTC
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Btw, does everyone here remember the planet Ixchel, in the book?

In a travel book, I stumbled on another meaning of that name - something that almost no one seems to talk about - online!

Here's one thing I did find:

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wrinkle/section11/

"The planet Ixchel is named for the Mayan goddess of the rainbow and patron of medicine. This name is appropriate because Ixchel, like the Biblical rainbow of the Noah's ark story, offers Meg the opportunity for renewal and restoration, even though the planet is devoid of color."

I also found - surprise! - that L'Engle didn't invent the name Camazotz either!

Guess where it comes from?

https://www.google.com/search?ei=LICyWu6JEMSL5wLb76-gCw&q=camazotz+mayan&oq=camazotz+mayan&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i67k1j0j0i67k1.19918.21172.0.21502.8.8.0.0.0.0.100.605.7j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.162....0.JiI8I6I7iuQ



Lenona.
D B Davis
2018-03-21 18:15:40 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Btw, does everyone here remember the planet Ixchel, in the book?
In a travel book, I stumbled on another meaning of that name - something
that almost no one seems to talk about - online!
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wrinkle/section11/
"The planet Ixchel is named for the Mayan goddess of the rainbow and
patron of medicine. This name is appropriate because Ixchel, like the
Biblical rainbow of the Noah's ark story, offers Meg the opportunity
for renewal and restoration, even though the planet is devoid of color."
I also found - surprise! - that L'Engle didn't invent the name Camazotz either!
Guess where it comes from?
IIRC, either LeGuin or Sheldon found it amazing that we can communicate
at all. Anyhow, back in the day, how on Earth did L'Engle dig up that
Mayan information?
My plan is to post about Null-A semantics, real soon now. :) Part of
that upcoming post will reference a van Vogt interview by H L Drake.
FWIW, here's a pertinent excerpt that highlights the difficulties
encountered by pioneer SF authors in obtaining information:

Q. Did you ever read _Manhood of Humanity_?
A. No, I never read that book. Maybe it was a hard book to get.
You know, _Science and Sanity_ wasn't that easy to get.

Thank you,

--
Don
l***@yahoo.com
2018-03-21 19:57:54 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
IIRC, either LeGuin or Sheldon found it amazing that we can communicate
at all. Anyhow, back in the day, how on Earth did L'Engle dig up that
Mayan information?
Given that L'Engle graduated from Smith cum laude and eventually became a librarian and professor, AND was apparently interested in more than one religion, I'd say she knew those names simply by being well-read.

(Of course, she also had the advantage of growing up in a time when, if you were upper middle class, at least, being well read didn't get you labeled as socially inept; reading a book before seeing the movie version was perfectly normal and could even make you MORE popular. Not so likely if you were born after 1975 or so, since VCRs already existed, but luckily, I'm older than that.)

It reminds me of how my parents were atheists and my father was surprised that I knew the story of St. Peter's vision from Acts 10 (not that I knew the exact chapter), and he asked how I knew. I said: "what do you MEAN, how do I know? I READ, remember?"

I admit my pre-Internet looking-up skills are slipping, but I remember finding out the name of a trashy 1960s movie with a feral woman character in it that I'd seen in the 1970s - "Mara of the Wilderness" - and I found the title again in the 1980s, with no computer help! I don't remember how, but likely it was in some film encyclopedia under "wolves" or "movies with feral themes." Something like that.


Lenona.
D B Davis
2018-03-21 21:34:38 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by D B Davis
IIRC, either LeGuin or Sheldon found it amazing that we can communicate
at all. Anyhow, back in the day, how on Earth did L'Engle dig up that
Mayan information?
Given that L'Engle graduated from Smith cum laude and eventually became
a librarian and professor, AND was apparently interested in more than
one religion, I'd say she knew those names simply by being well-read.
(Of course, she also had the advantage of growing up in a time when, if
you were upper middle class, at least, being well read didn't get you
labeled as socially inept; reading a book before seeing the movie version
was perfectly normal and could even make you MORE popular. Not so likely
if you were born after 1975 or so, since VCRs already existed, but
luckily, I'm older than that.)
It reminds me of how my parents were atheists and my father was surprised
that I knew the story of St. Peter's vision from Acts 10 (not that I knew
the exact chapter), and he asked how I knew. I said: "what do you MEAN,
how do I know? I READ, remember?"
I admit my pre-Internet looking-up skills are slipping, but I remember
finding out the name of a trashy 1960s movie with a feral woman character
in it that I'd seen in the 1970s - "Mara of the Wilderness" - and I found
the title again in the 1980s, with no computer help! I don't remember how,
but likely it was in some film encyclopedia under "wolves" or "movies with
feral themes." Something like that.
Allow me to clear up my earlier post in regards to our mutual
communication failure (eg you talking about Meg and me talking about
Christianity). It's actually Sheldon who found it a miracle (and not
amazing) that we can communicate at all. Michael Swanwick writes in the
intro to _Her Smoke Rose Up Forever_ (Tiptree):

Tiptree thought that it was a miracle that people were able to
communicate at all. No surprise, then, that communication must
so often fail.

Thank you,

--
Don
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-03-21 20:20:35 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Btw, does everyone here remember the planet Ixchel, in the book?
In a travel book, I stumbled on another meaning of that name - something
that almost no one seems to talk about - online!
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wrinkle/section11/
"The planet Ixchel is named for the Mayan goddess of the rainbow and
patron of medicine. This name is appropriate because Ixchel, like the
Biblical rainbow of the Noah's ark story, offers Meg the opportunity
for renewal and restoration, even though the planet is devoid of color."
I also found - surprise! - that L'Engle didn't invent the name Camazotz either!
Guess where it comes from?
IIRC, either LeGuin or Sheldon found it amazing that we can communicate
at all. Anyhow, back in the day, how on Earth did L'Engle dig up that
Mayan information?
Maybe on vacation in Mexico? Maya is still spoken in Yucatan and
Quintana Roo. Or rather, multiple Mayan languages are.

Or maybe a museum exhibit. Even before the internet, books weren't
the only place to learn this stuff.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
D B Davis
2018-03-21 21:38:47 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by D B Davis
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Btw, does everyone here remember the planet Ixchel, in the book?
In a travel book, I stumbled on another meaning of that name - something
that almost no one seems to talk about - online!
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wrinkle/section11/
"The planet Ixchel is named for the Mayan goddess of the rainbow and
patron of medicine. This name is appropriate because Ixchel, like the
Biblical rainbow of the Noah's ark story, offers Meg the opportunity
for renewal and restoration, even though the planet is devoid of color."
I also found - surprise! - that L'Engle didn't invent the name Camazotz either!
Guess where it comes from?
IIRC, either LeGuin or Sheldon found it amazing that we can communicate
at all. Anyhow, back in the day, how on Earth did L'Engle dig up that
Mayan information?
Maybe on vacation in Mexico? Maya is still spoken in Yucatan and
Quintana Roo. Or rather, multiple Mayan languages are.
Or maybe a museum exhibit. Even before the internet, books weren't
the only place to learn this stuff.
"The Women Men Don't See" (Tiptree) is a favorite of mine. It takes
place in Quintana Roo, which was part of the Mayan Empire back in the
day.
The first Hollywood treatment of _The Lathe of Heaven_ (LeGuin) (but
/not/ the novel) also briefly touches on the Mayan Empire, for ?dream
symbology?, of all things. In this excerpt, a oneirologist named Habor
talks with his assistant, named Crouch.

Habor. Well, Miss Crouch, I'd like you to do some research for me.
Use a computer linked up to the Library of Congress in the lobby.
Do you think the others will mind?
Crouch. No, I don't think so, I was definitely got allowed.
Habor. Good. I'd like you to get me as much information is possible
on the effective dreams symbology in pre-Columbian culture.
Crouch. I may be a while.
Habor. Take as much time as you need. - Be very thorough,
Miss Crouch.
Crouch. Yes, Doctor.

_Man and His Symbols_ (Jung) is a companion book to one of my
favorites - _Man and Time_ (Priestley). The Jung doesn't treat
pre-Columbian symbology as particularly noteworthy. So maybe the
treatment just uses poetic license.

Thank you,

--
Don

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