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How many published British writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy are Jewish?
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Madawc Williams
2017-04-14 14:55:57 UTC
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In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could recognize no SF writers there.

One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so, but it seems to be so.
Carl Fink
2017-04-14 17:38:11 UTC
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Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-14 17:44:30 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are
Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia
in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I
could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should
be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.

I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
The Last Doctor
2017-04-14 18:47:36 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are
Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia
in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I
could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should
be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of the
population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA (getting on for 2%
of the population). So in any field of endeavour Jews would be expected to
be 4x as prevalent in the US as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given
that the societies are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd
only expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American ones.

And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on religion in
the UK, where the largest plurality of the people (around 45% now) self
identify as of no religion. And I'm not even counting the Jedi in that
percentage.
Kevrob
2017-04-14 19:55:48 UTC
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Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are
Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia
in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I
could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should
be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of the
population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA (getting on for 2%
of the population). So in any field of endeavour Jews would be expected to
be 4x as prevalent in the US as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given
that the societies are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd
only expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American ones.
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on religion in
the UK, where the largest plurality of the people (around 45% now) self
identify as of no religion. And I'm not even counting the Jedi in that
percentage.
Would the % of SF writers of a Jewish background mirror the % of
Jews who trained in the sciences?

In the early days of the pulps and comic books, Jewish talent flocked
to these new venues in no small part because doors were slammed in their
faces at other potential employers: doing advertising art or a syndicated
comic strip might have been a harder gig to get if the editor was bigoted,
or was catering to bigoted ownership. Some of the biggest publishers in
the low-rent section of publishing were Jewish. Hugo Gernsback was,
as were the Donenfeld/Liebowitz/Sampliner/Gaines "cartel" who owned
Superman-DC/All-American and Independent News. Sampliner had been
involved with Eastern News, who distributed Gernsback's publications.
Martin Goodman (Marvel/Timely/Atlas) and all three of the MLJ initials
(Red Circle pulps, Archie Comics) were Jewish.

With customers (and artists) like these, why wouldn't Jewish writers
submit?

I never heard of readers of the SF magazines caring about the religions
or ethnicities of the authors. Did any of the editors evince any anti-
semitism, either personally, or in their buying habits?

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-14 23:16:03 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
I never heard of readers of the SF magazines caring about the religions
or ethnicities of the authors. Did any of the editors evince any anti-
semitism, either personally, or in their buying habits?
Well, Campbell was ... not anti-Semitic as such, but he was
firmly convinced that people of North European descent were the
greatest humans on the planet. This was mirrored in his
preference for publishing stories in which humans were the
meanest sons-of-bitches in the Galaxy. On the other hand, what
he really wanted were stories he liked, (and if they appealed to
his prejudices, so much the better), and he doesn't appear to
have given a single fig about the writers' ethnicities so long as
they wrote stories he liked. Witness the fact that he developed
the work of Asimov over long and patient years, although when
Asimov started submitting he submitted dreck.

A quick google did not reveal to me the song filed on "On Yonder
Hill" by a lot of Campbell's writers at a con, back in the day.
Example:

"'Slaves are better off than free men;
We must not discover psi,"
Says the master, and the authors
Groan in agony and cry,
'Oh, no, John, no, John, no, John, no!"

Does anybody have a like to the entire text?

Anyway, they sang it, verse after verse, and at the end Campbell
just grinned and said, "I get good stories that way."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Goldfarb
2017-04-15 20:45:14 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
"'Slaves are better off than free men;
We must not discover psi,"
"Now", not "not", surely?
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Says the master, and the authors
Groan in agony and cry,
'Oh, no, John, no, John, no, John, no!"
Does anybody have a like to the entire text?
Anyway, they sang it, verse after verse, and at the end Campbell
just grinned and said, "I get good stories that way."
--
David Goldfarb |"Why are you persecuting me? What have I ever
***@gmail.com | done to you?"
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | "You tried to kill me, and destroy this
| entire planet."
|"Apart from that!" -- Doctor Who, "Boom Town"
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-14 20:35:09 UTC
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Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers
are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the
Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer.
I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it
should be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of
the population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA
(getting on for 2% of the population). So in any field of
endeavour Jews would be expected to be 4x as prevalent in the US
as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given that the societies
are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd only
expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American
ones.
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on
religion in the UK, where the largest plurality of the people
(around 45% now) self identify as of no religion. And I'm not
even counting the Jedi in that percentage.
The real quesiton here is: who cares?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
The Last Doctor
2017-04-14 20:37:02 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers
are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the
Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer.
I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it
should be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of
the population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA
(getting on for 2% of the population). So in any field of
endeavour Jews would be expected to be 4x as prevalent in the US
as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given that the societies
are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd only
expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American
ones.
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on
religion in the UK, where the largest plurality of the people
(around 45% now) self identify as of no religion. And I'm not
even counting the Jedi in that percentage.
The real quesiton here is: who cares?
Fair point.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-14 23:16:37 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers
are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the
Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer.
I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it
should be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of
the population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA
(getting on for 2% of the population). So in any field of
endeavour Jews would be expected to be 4x as prevalent in the US
as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given that the societies
are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd only
expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American
ones.
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on
religion in the UK, where the largest plurality of the people
(around 45% now) self identify as of no religion. And I'm not
even counting the Jedi in that percentage.
The real quesiton here is: who cares?
Allow me to reword you just slightli: "Who HERE cares?" Not us.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-15 13:38:08 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers
are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the
Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer.
I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it
should be so, but it seems to be so.
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
In any case, there are about 300,000 Jews in Britain (0.5% of
the population). There are about 6 million Jews in the USA
(getting on for 2% of the population). So in any field of
endeavour Jews would be expected to be 4x as prevalent in the US
as in the U.K., and in absolute terms, given that the societies
are broadly similar in their cultural leanings, you'd only
expect to see one British Jewish writer for every 20 American
ones.
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on
religion in the UK, where the largest plurality of the people
(around 45% now) self identify as of no religion. And I'm not
even counting the Jedi in that percentage.
The real quesiton here is: who cares?
"Who HERE cares?" Not us.
If writers are being discriminated against
on "race", some of us will care a bit.
But it isn't obviously that. (It rarely is
obvious.)
Greg Goss
2017-04-15 16:25:08 UTC
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Post by The Last Doctor
And that's not taking into account the much lower emphasis on religion in
the UK, where the largest plurality of the people (around 45% now) self
identify as of no religion. And I'm not even counting the Jedi in that
percentage.
A friend of mine declares his religion as Pastafarian for half the
year and NFL for the other half.

If you're not counting Jedi, are you also not counting Pastafarians?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Madawc Williams
2017-04-15 10:58:40 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
--
Terry Austin
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Listed as English Jewish.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 15:23:28 UTC
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 03:58:40 -0700 (PDT), Madawc Williams
Post by Madawc Williams
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Carl Fink
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
He's not listed on the the linked page.
I didn't know Neil Gaiman was British.
Listed as English Jewish.
Born and raised in England, now mostly lives in the U.S. (Travels a
lot.)
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Madawc Williams
2017-04-15 10:50:13 UTC
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No, I have read several of his works but didn't think of him. I suppose I'd have guessed Jewish from the name, had I thought it mattered.
Madawc Williams
2017-04-15 11:34:01 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
--
I have read and liked several of his works but didn't think of him. I suppose I'd have guessed Jewish from the name, had I thought it mattered. I also wasn’t sure if he was British or American: one of his works is American Gods. But turns out to be very much British.

His parents were converts to Scientology, which may explain it.
Cryptoengineer
2017-04-16 02:34:22 UTC
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Post by Madawc Williams
Post by Carl Fink
So you're saying you didn't know that Neil Gaiman is Jewish?
--
I have read and liked several of his works but didn't think of him. I
suppose I'd have guessed Jewish from the name, had I thought it
mattered. I also wasn’t sure if he was British or American: one of
his works is American Gods. But turns out to be very much British.
His parents were converts to Scientology, which may explain it.
Starz will be starting 'American Gods' on April 30th. I'm looking forward
to it.

pt
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-14 19:17:37 UTC
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Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so, but it seems to be so.
Well, I'll tellya. I met a guy in college who was astonished
that I didn't know immediately that his surname (Saslow) was
Russian Jewish. I am sure I'd met lots of Jewish people, but
this was the first one who'd actually mentioned it, and my mother
brought me up NEVER to discuss anybody's religion, the way you
would never discuss anybody's warts or club foot. (She was an
atheist.)

So I said, "So are you Jewish by religion, or just by ancestry?"
And he said, "Well, I'm glad you put it that way. What I mostly
got out of my Jewish upbringing were the concepts of the
fatherhood of God, the brotherhood of man, and the necessity of a
college education."

Now, if this can be taken generally, and Jewish kids
(particularly boys) are generally encouraged/bribed/threatened
into getting college degrees, they're going to be more literate
than those who aren't. They probably aren't all SF writers, but
a lot of them may turn into writers of some kind.

I'm thinking of the passage in one of the Lord Peter Wimsey
novels wherein a young woman (not Jewish) assures her ailing
father that she can make a living writing novels. "You start in
college, writing about how rotten everything was in school. Then
you write about how rotten everything was in college." A certain
degree of angst, whether Jewish-related or not, is going to
provide one with an endless supply of material.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-14 20:58:01 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
Well, I'll tellya. I met a guy in college who was astonished
that I didn't know immediately that his surname (Saslow) was
Russian Jewish. I am sure I'd met lots of Jewish people, but
this was the first one who'd actually mentioned it, and my mother
brought me up NEVER to discuss anybody's religion, the way you
would never discuss anybody's warts or club foot. (She was an
atheist.)
I had no idea Gernsback was Jewish until a few messages upthread.

Growing up in the south, it was just accepted that people had weird names
up north. We didn't assign them any assumed religion or ethnicity other
than maybe "yankee".
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ahasuerus
2017-04-14 21:47:10 UTC
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On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 4:58:05 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
[snip-snip]
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I had no idea Gernsback was Jewish until a few messages upthread.
A lot of pulp era SF publishers and editors were of Jewish descent.
Gernsback, obviously. Jacob Hennenberger, the publisher of _Weird
Tales_. David Lasser, Gernsback's editor at _Science Wonder Stories_.
Ned Pines, the publisher of _Wonder Stories_/_Thrilling Wonder Stories_
(the editor was Mort Weisinger, who was also Jewish.) Pines went on to
publish a bunch of other SF magazines like _Captain Future_ and
_Startling Stories_. Bernard Ziff published _Amazing_ and _Fantastic_
in the late 1930s and 1940s. Louis Silberkleit published _Future Science
Fiction_, _Dynamic Science Fiction_, etc. Leo Margulies published
_Fantastic Universe_. Irwin Stein published _Infinity_. Ace was Donald
Wollheim's domain. H. L. Gold edited Galaxy.

Eric Leif Davin has a chapter in _Partners in Wonder_ about the gory
details.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-14 23:17:26 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Growing up in the south, it was just accepted that people had weird names
up north. We didn't assign them any assumed religion or ethnicity other
than maybe "yankee".
Heh heh.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2017-04-15 05:09:08 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Now, if this can be taken generally, and Jewish kids
(particularly boys) are generally encouraged/bribed/threatened
into getting college degrees, they're going to be more literate
than those who aren't.
As I've noted here before, I believe that the cultural roots of why Jewish and
East Asian people have managed to succeed despite prejudice and discrimination
are obvious.

In the Jewish case, it is the _bar mitzvah_, the celebration wherein a young Jewish boy advances to manhood by reading, without error, a passage from the Pentateuch in the original Hebrew.

In the East Asian case, the roots are specifically Chinese: the Imperial civil
service examinations, which were focused on literacy in the complex character
script of China.

In both cases, therefore, literacy and book-learning are an integral part of the
group's _own_ culture, as opposed to something identified with the outside
culture of the majority group which can be viewed as an oppressor.

John Savard
Madawc Williams
2017-04-15 11:31:27 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
As I've noted here before, I believe that the cultural roots of why Jewish and
East Asian people have managed to succeed despite prejudice and discrimination
are obvious.
In the Jewish case, it is the _bar mitzvah_, the celebration wherein a young Jewish boy advances to manhood by reading, without error, a passage from the Pentateuch in the original Hebrew.
In the East Asian case, the roots are specifically Chinese: the Imperial civil
service examinations, which were focused on literacy in the complex character
script of China.
In both cases, therefore, literacy and book-learning are an integral part of the
group's _own_ culture, as opposed to something identified with the outside
culture of the majority group which can be viewed as an oppressor.
John Savard
Very valid
Quadibloc
2017-04-15 05:44:56 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
and my mother
brought me up NEVER to discuss anybody's religion, the way you
would never discuss anybody's warts or club foot. (She was an
atheist.)
Naturally, she _would_ be sensitive to actions that could potentially expose
persons like herself to hatred or discrimination.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-15 15:12:08 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
and my mother
brought me up NEVER to discuss anybody's religion, the way you
would never discuss anybody's warts or club foot. (She was an
atheist.)
Naturally, she _would_ be sensitive to actions that could potentially expose
persons like herself to hatred or discrimination.
Well, yes, but we were talking specifically about religion. She
had been brought up Presbyterian and had gone atheist in young
adulthood, as a lot of people did in the first half of the 20th
century. She taught me, overtly, that everyone's religion was
his own business and you must never discuss or even mention it.
But *covertly* she told me that anyone who *had* a religion, any
religion at all, was a damned fool, and the Catholics were the
worst of all. When I became a Catholic at twenty-one she was
livid. Long after she no longer believed in God or anything, she
still believed down in her bone marrow that the Catholic Church
was the Scarlet Woman. She felt I had "betrayed" her, and never
really forgave me.

As to actions that could potentially expose her to hatred or
discrimination, in her day there weren't any. She was white,
formerly Protestant, middle-class, college-educated, and married.
She never *met* people who would have hated her for that.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2017-04-16 02:07:41 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As to actions that could potentially expose her to hatred or
discrimination, in her day there weren't any. She was white,
formerly Protestant, middle-class, college-educated, and married.
She never *met* people who would have hated her for that.
Well, herself or *others*. Back in those days, certainly there were people and
segments of society where atheists weren't considered to be "real Americans", or
people whose morality could be trusted.

I don't want to discriminate against people for their religion, so that they
shall have no complaint against me when I ask that they be forbidden to
discriminate against me.

Thus, while I don't want people to be discriminated against for being homosexual
either, I felt that what Anita Bryant was asking for was reasonable enough.
Private schools run by Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian denominations do
not make up a sufficient proportion of the employment market for teachers to
represent a threat to the opportunities available to persons in groups
considered unsuitable - for the legitimate employment reason that they are unlikely to share the values they wish to inculate in the children there.

And, indeed, neither to I countenance discrimination against peaceful Muslims
who respect the rights of others.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/14/christian-diaspora-fear-their-religion-wont-survive-in-its-birthplace.html

But those who don't reciprocate inevitably create problems.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-15 13:11:00 UTC
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Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish. There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so, but it seems to be so.
David Baddiel has written some children's
sci-fi / fantasy, such as _The Person Controller_.

Anthony Horowitz has ventured into children's /
YA fantasy as well. And some of his James Bod-ish
stuff might count.

Ben Elton is Jewish-ish (paternally) but not so
as to be on the list. He has written satire with
sci-fi premises.

Stephen Fry appears to be omitted, but his
_Making History_ seems to have won the Sidewise
Award for AH.

Cory Doctorow has done a bit. He is intermittently
British.

I don't know if Ben Aaronovitch qualifies;
his late father was Jewish and was married
three times, according to Wikipedia, so some
sort of space-time diagram might be called for.

Judith Kerr is author of _The Tiger who Came
to Tea_, which may be not strictly SF but has
an unusual premise.

_Ixion in Heaven_ and _The Infernal Marriage_
appear to be satirical fantasies by Benjamin
Disraeli.
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-15 13:29:51 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Anthony Horowitz has ventured into children's /
YA fantasy as well. And some of his James Bod-ish
stuff might count.
Ah, I meant "James Bond" - in fact Alex Rider,
boy agent, although the actual Bond book
_Trigger Mortis_ involves space rockets
(which doesn't make it sci fi necessarily),
and apparently his follow-up is being published
in the future (2018) - but probably not set then.
Kevrob
2017-04-17 18:28:31 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
_Ixion in Heaven_ and _The Infernal Marriage_
appear to be satirical fantasies by Benjamin
Disraeli.
"Ethnically Jewish." He was baptized an Anglican at age 12.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-17 19:23:12 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Robert Carnegie
_Ixion in Heaven_ and _The Infernal Marriage_
appear to be satirical fantasies by Benjamin
Disraeli.
"Ethnically Jewish." He was baptized an Anglican at age 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
Well, he's on the category list, anyway. If you
think he shouldn't be - ?
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-17 21:36:55 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Kevrob
Post by Robert Carnegie
_Ixion in Heaven_ and _The Infernal Marriage_
appear to be satirical fantasies by Benjamin
Disraeli.
"Ethnically Jewish." He was baptized an Anglican at age 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
Well, he's on the category list, anyway. If you
think he shouldn't be - ?
Somewhere upthread I mentioned the guy who said what he had taken
away from his Jewish heritage were the concepts of the fatherhood
of God, the brotherhood of man, and the necessity of a college
education. I don't think he was at all observant, but he was
shocked, SHOCKED! to discover I didn't know he was Jewish from
his surname.

Some of us just don't pay a whole lot of attention to these
things. I recently discovered that my daughter's boss the lawyer
is Jewish (because she was taking Friday off for Passover and
told Meg she could too), and I've known her off and on since she
was a child.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Kevrob
2017-04-20 05:42:44 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Kevrob
Post by Robert Carnegie
_Ixion in Heaven_ and _The Infernal Marriage_
appear to be satirical fantasies by Benjamin
Disraeli.
"Ethnically Jewish." He was baptized an Anglican at age 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli
Well, he's on the category list, anyway. If you
think he shouldn't be - ?
Somewhere upthread I mentioned the guy who said what he had taken
away from his Jewish heritage were the concepts of the fatherhood
of God, the brotherhood of man, and the necessity of a college
education. I don't think he was at all observant, but he was
shocked, SHOCKED! to discover I didn't know he was Jewish from
his surname.
Some of us just don't pay a whole lot of attention to these
things. I recently discovered that my daughter's boss the lawyer
is Jewish (because she was taking Friday off for Passover and
told Meg she could too), and I've known her off and on since she
was a child.
Disraeli's religious and ethnic heritage was a political issue
in its day, as it was for Baron Lionel Nathan de Rothschild who,
before he was elevated to the Lords, was elected to the House
of Commons four times before he was allowed to take an oath of
office without professing belief in Jesus.

I blush to say I didn't learn much of this from my reading of
British Parliamentary history, since in my courses along the way
to my history B.A. I didn't do too much in that line. It did come
up in the ITV 1978 DISRAELI miniseries, shown on PBS here in the
States two years later on MASTERPIECE THEATRE.

The fights over the Reform bills shows up in Trollope, too.

Kevin R

Ahasuerus
2017-04-15 13:28:14 UTC
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Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)

Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
the genre editor Anna Genoese wrote:

"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.

I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 15:26:12 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.

Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 15:35:57 UTC
Reply
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.

Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-15 15:42:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
And reading further into the referenced essay, I note:

"the conventional trappings of fantasy, with their feudal
atmosphere and rootedness in rural Europe, are not especially
welcoming to Jews, who were too often at the wrong end of the
medieval sword. "

Russell Hoban's _Pilgermann_ deals with a Jew who is definitely
at the wrong end of the sword; practically the first thing that
happens to him is that he's castrated by a mob of annoyed
Gentiles. He then decides to go on pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and
it is not long before he gets into a fight and acquits himself
very well. Whereupon he remarks to himself, "I never had balls
like that when I had balls." From there it gets consistently
stranger; I don't know what you'd call it if not fantasy, unless
the stream-of-consciousness of someone who is going insane. (And
how would you tell which?)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 16:38:47 UTC
Reply
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:57 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
Oh! Avram Davidson!
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Ahasuerus
2017-04-15 19:25:53 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:57 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Ahasuerus
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
Oh! Avram Davidson!
Sure, but consider the timeline. _The Red Magician_ appeared in 1982.
Joel Rosenberg's Jewish-flavored _Not for Glory_ and _Hero_ were
published in 1988 and 1990. Avram Davidson died in 1993. _Warp Angel_
first appeared in 1995.

OTOH, Anna Genoese was with Tor between 2000 and 2007
(https://reedsy.com/anna-genoese).
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 20:30:30 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:57 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Ahasuerus
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
Oh! Avram Davidson!
Sure, but consider the timeline. _The Red Magician_ appeared in 1982.
Joel Rosenberg's Jewish-flavored _Not for Glory_ and _Hero_ were
published in 1988 and 1990. Avram Davidson died in 1993. _Warp Angel_
first appeared in 1995.
OTOH, Anna Genoese was with Tor between 2000 and 2007
(https://reedsy.com/anna-genoese).
That's a good point. (Though that wasn't her first editorial
position, if I remember correctly; I think the previous one was a
brief stint as an assistant in YA somewhere else.)

Interesting. Is SF/fantasy getting LESS Jewish, then?
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Ahasuerus
2017-04-15 21:15:51 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:57 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Ahasuerus
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane Yolen's
fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't read the
examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some of his
short stories were.
Oh! Avram Davidson!
Sure, but consider the timeline. _The Red Magician_ appeared in 1982.
Joel Rosenberg's Jewish-flavored _Not for Glory_ and _Hero_ were
published in 1988 and 1990. Avram Davidson died in 1993. _Warp Angel_
first appeared in 1995.
OTOH, Anna Genoese was with Tor between 2000 and 2007
(https://reedsy.com/anna-genoese).
That's a good point. (Though that wasn't her first editorial
position, if I remember correctly; I think the previous one was a
brief stint as an assistant in YA somewhere else.)
Interesting. Is SF/fantasy getting LESS Jewish, then?
An interesting question indeed, but I am not sure I am qualified to
answer. On the one hand, every month I enter hundreds of SF/F/H books
and assign ISFDB tags like "young-adult fantasy", "dystopia",
"post-apocalypse", "vampires", "military sf", and so on. On the other
hand, to paraphrase A. N. L. Munby, "bibliography is a full-time
occupation, and one wouldn't get far if one took time off for
frivolities like reading", so in a way I am out of touch these days.

All I can say is that I occasionally come across books with Jewish
elements, e.g. Helene Wecker's _The Golem and the Jinni_
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1564195) and Jane Yolen/Adam
Stemple's _B.U.G. (Big Ugly Guy)_
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1552668), but they are fairly
uncommon.
Cryptoengineer
2017-04-16 02:46:29 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-4, Lawrence
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:57 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:26:12 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Ahasuerus
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question.
Back in 2010, during the discussion started by Michael
Weingrad's article "Why There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-je
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major
publishing company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences
and in my blog (and the blogs of other people) and on mailing
lists requesting people write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal
romance, science fiction, or fantasy novels -- or even any
genre novel at all with Jewish characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was
extremely disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-q
uestion.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available
now from Misenchanted Press.
The Red Magician, Lisa Goldstein. And I believe some of Jane
Yolen's fantasy is specifically Jewish-themed, though I haven't
read the examples usually cited.
Joel Rosenberg's fantasy novels weren't Jewish-themed, but some
of his short stories were.
Oh! Avram Davidson!
Sure, but consider the timeline. _The Red Magician_ appeared in
1982. Joel Rosenberg's Jewish-flavored _Not for Glory_ and _Hero_
were published in 1988 and 1990. Avram Davidson died in 1993. _Warp
Angel_ first appeared in 1995.
OTOH, Anna Genoese was with Tor between 2000 and 2007
(https://reedsy.com/anna-genoese).
That's a good point. (Though that wasn't her first editorial
position, if I remember correctly; I think the previous one was a
brief stint as an assistant in YA somewhere else.)
Interesting. Is SF/fantasy getting LESS Jewish, then?There'
An interesting question indeed, but I am not sure I am qualified to
answer. On the one hand, every month I enter hundreds of SF/F/H books
and assign ISFDB tags like "young-adult fantasy", "dystopia",
"post-apocalypse", "vampires", "military sf", and so on. On the other
hand, to paraphrase A. N. L. Munby, "bibliography is a full-time
occupation, and one wouldn't get far if one took time off for
frivolities like reading", so in a way I am out of touch these days.
All I can say is that I occasionally come across books with Jewish
elements, e.g. Helene Wecker's _The Golem and the Jinni_
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1564195) and Jane Yolen/Adam
Stemple's _B.U.G. (Big Ugly Guy)_
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1552668), but they are fairly
uncommon.
There's "The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay", which is more about Jewish
genre creators (to be specific, pre and post war Jewish comic book
artists), and which contains some distinctly SFF elements.

pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-15 15:38:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
I remember a whole anthology. Ah, here we go:

_Wandering Stars_ (1974) edited by Jack Dann

Which includes a funny one I read elsewhere:

"Look, You Think You've Got Troubles" by Carol Carr
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-15 15:43:13 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
_Wandering Stars_ (1974) edited by Jack Dann
"Look, You Think You've Got Troubles" by Carol Carr
Oh, is that the one that ends ....










SPOILER









SPOILER








"And I went to meet my son-in-law the Martian.

"Feh."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-15 17:02:24 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
_Wandering Stars_ (1974) edited by Jack Dann
"Look, You Think You've Got Troubles" by Carol Carr
Oh, is that the one that ends ....
SPOILER
SPOILER
"And I went to meet my son-in-law the Martian.
"Feh."
I don't recall the exact ending, but that would be consistent.
Except maybe the "Feh". I think the guy had started looking on
the bright side of a Martian son-in-law by the end.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Wolffan
2017-04-16 17:27:04 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
,
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-
us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narni
a/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.ht
ml)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
_Wandering Stars_ (1974) edited by Jack Dann
"Look, You Think You've Got Troubles" by Carol Carr
Oh, is that the one that ends ....
SPOILER
SPOILER
"And I went to meet my son-in-law the Martian.
IIRC it’s “My son-in-law the cabbage”.

There was a bit about bris and leaves earlier on.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
"Feh."
Ahasuerus
2017-04-15 20:27:01 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
_Wandering Stars_ (1974) edited by Jack Dann
And its sequel _More Wandering Stars_ (1981) --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?8437
J. Clarke
2017-04-15 15:43:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
There's also an alternated-universe story, "The Yiddish Policemen's Union"
which won the 2008 Hugo.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-15 15:49:39 UTC
Reply
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:43:29 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
Huh.
Warp Angel, by Stuart Hopen, is Jewish-thermed science fantasy.
Originally published by Tor in 1995, revised edition available now
from Misenchanted Press.
There's also an alternated-universe story, "The Yiddish Policemen's Union"
which won the 2008 Hugo.
Michael Chabon. Yeah.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-15 15:30:55 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
Hm ... has Mr. Weingrad never read any Harry Turtledove? He is
certainly Jewish, as are many of his characters. Mind you, I
never read the Worldwar series. I'm thinking of _The Toxic Spell
Dump_, and an anthology whose name escapes me, in which the
editor seems to have asked for stories about monsters for
Christmas. Turtledove wrote a story about a golem for Hannukah.
Et cetera.

If I knew Mr. Weingrad, I would certainly recommend _TTSD_, which
is not only funny (sometimes very subtly, as where all the
Spanish place names in Southern California are translated into
English), but shows an alternate universe in which Christianity,
Judaism, and Islam cooperate peacefully with each other, and
there is great tolerance for all other religions (including ones
thought extinct, which might still be viable after all), unless
they do something yucchy like human sacrifice. They're keeping
an eye on santeria.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Goldfarb
2017-04-15 20:49:46 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Hm ... has Mr. Weingrad never read any Harry Turtledove? He is
certainly Jewish, as are many of his characters. Mind you, I
never read the Worldwar series.
I have. One member of its ensemble cast is a community leader in the
Warsaw Ghetto, and was named for a real-life relative of Turtledove's
who in our timeline died in the Holocaust. Another was British,
either an expatriate Pole or a second-generation immigrant, I don't
remember which. But Jewish (and in fact a cousin of the previous one).
The second one is particularly memorable to me because Turtledove
happened to give him the name "David Goldfarb".
--
David Goldfarb |
***@gmail.com | Horace Gerstenblut n'existe pas.
***@ocf.berkeley.edu |
Wolffan
2017-04-16 17:32:41 UTC
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Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us
-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/
),
Hm ... has Mr. Weingrad never read any Harry Turtledove? He is
certainly Jewish, as are many of his characters. Mind you, I
never read the Worldwar series. I'm thinking of _The Toxic Spell
Dump_, and an anthology whose name escapes me, in which the
editor seems to have asked for stories about monsters for
Christmas. Turtledove wrote a story about a golem for Hannukah.
Et cetera.
If I knew Mr. Weingrad, I would certainly recommend _TTSD_, which
is not only funny (sometimes very subtly, as where all the
Spanish place names in Southern California are translated into
English), but shows an alternate universe in which Christianity,
Judaism, and Islam cooperate peacefully with each other, and
there is great tolerance for all other religions (including ones
thought extinct, which might still be viable after all), unless
they do something yucchy like human sacrifice. They're keeping
an eye on santeria.
I particularly liked the brimstone-and-thunder iman who could be relied upon
to sign warrants. You know, the one who was exiled from Iran after the
Revolution. Maximum Ruhollah.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-16 20:28:09 UTC
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Post by Wolffan
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Madawc Williams
In the USA, I'd guess about half of the best-known writers are Jewish.
There are also 168 individuals listed by the Wikipedia in the category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Jewish_writer. I could
recognize no SF writers there.
One of life's oddities. I can think of no reason why it should be so,
but it seems to be so.
According to Charles Stross, he is "of Jewish extraction"
(http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/01/policy-change-future-us
-visits.html)
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/
),
Hm ... has Mr. Weingrad never read any Harry Turtledove? He is
certainly Jewish, as are many of his characters. Mind you, I
never read the Worldwar series. I'm thinking of _The Toxic Spell
Dump_, and an anthology whose name escapes me, in which the
editor seems to have asked for stories about monsters for
Christmas. Turtledove wrote a story about a golem for Hannukah.
Et cetera.
If I knew Mr. Weingrad, I would certainly recommend _TTSD_, which
is not only funny (sometimes very subtly, as where all the
Spanish place names in Southern California are translated into
English), but shows an alternate universe in which Christianity,
Judaism, and Islam cooperate peacefully with each other, and
there is great tolerance for all other religions (including ones
thought extinct, which might still be viable after all), unless
they do something yucchy like human sacrifice. They're keeping
an eye on santeria.
I particularly liked the brimstone-and-thunder iman who could be relied upon
to sign warrants. You know, the one who was exiled from Iran after the
Revolution. Maximum Ruhollah.
Yup.

Remember that Turtledove also wrote about Brother Mohammed, who
was a fire-and-brimstone *Christian* in the sixth century in a
different timeline.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
William Hyde
2017-04-15 21:25:30 UTC
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Post by Ahasuerus
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long, deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy with some interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly quoted at us, particularly the worst parts.

Perhaps the writers thought the market was saturated.

But I think that, for a start "The Yiddish Policeman's Union" showed otherwise.

More books should have characters named Emanuel Lasker.

William Hyde
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2017-04-15 21:38:33 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
Post by Ahasuerus
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long, deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy with some interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly quoted at us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.


I did actually write one story with an explicitly, one might even say
deliberately over-the-top, Jewish character.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Quadibloc
2017-04-16 02:28:59 UTC
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Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy with some
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly quoted at
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would have expected
it to...

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-16 11:56:16 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy with some
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly quoted at
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?

Someone reminded me the other day of an episode
where the leader of the rebellion rode into town
on a colt and a donkey, to great applause.
Oddly, the man riding two horses is left out
of all the film adaptations. Maybe they can't
afford insurance.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-16 13:52:48 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:38:36 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy
with some
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly
quoted at
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would
have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?
That was the second volume. First volume was _Master of Chaos._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Cryptoengineer
2017-04-16 15:16:04 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:38:36 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a
long, deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish
fantasy
with some
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly
quoted at
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would
have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?
That was the second volume. First volume was _Master of Chaos._
There are those who argue that Vol 2 is non-canonical, but they
are few in number.

...and don't forget the non-canon sequels, each of which have
their fanbase:

"The Thing in the Desert"
"The Thing in America" (regarded as fanfiction by most)

[We've been through this before]

pt
Anthony Nance
2017-04-18 11:32:31 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:38:36 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy
with some
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly
quoted at
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would
have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?
That was the second volume. First volume was _Master of Chaos._
Hm - I thought volume one was _War God of Israel_ .
- Tony
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-04-18 14:34:03 UTC
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Post by Anthony Nance
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:38:36 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy
with some
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly
quoted at
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would
have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?
That was the second volume. First volume was _Master of Chaos._
Hm - I thought volume one was _War God of Israel_ .
That's the U.S. title.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Anthony Nance
2017-04-18 14:54:48 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Anthony Nance
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:38:36 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
In our youth, many of us were exposed to, or required to read, a long,
deadly dull in spots, inconsistent, badly written Jewish fantasy
with some
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
interesting poetry stuck in the middle. And we had it endlessly
quoted at
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by William Hyde
us, particularly the worst parts.
It took me a long time to figure out what you were speaking of.
It took me thousands of milliseconds, which is longer than I would
have expected
it to...
Was the title _The Thing With Three Souls_ ?
That was the second volume. First volume was _Master of Chaos._
Hm - I thought volume one was _War God of Israel_ .
That's the U.S. title.
Hah! That's awesome.
Quadibloc
2017-04-16 02:25:31 UTC
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Post by Ahasuerus
Here is a somewhat related but IMHO more interesting question. Back in
2010, during the discussion started by Michael Weingrad's article "Why
There Is No Jewish Narnia"
(https://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/290/why-there-is-no-jewish-narnia/),
"For around six years, I was an acquiring editor at a major publishing
company. I spent quite a lot of time at conferences and in my blog (and
the blogs of other people) and on mailing lists requesting people
write/submit Jewish-themed paranormal romance, science fiction, or
fantasy novels -- or even any genre novel at all with Jewish
characters and culture.
I did not get one single submission. In *six* years. It was extremely
disheartening."
(http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2010/02/fantasy-and-jewish-question.html)
The two articles, although representing opposing views, were very interesting.

John Savard
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