Discussion:
Buckle-Up for Safety
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p***@hotmail.com
2017-06-22 01:19:57 UTC
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In Robert Heinlein’s _The Puppet Masters_, agent Sam Nivens is sent into Zone
Red, the part of the United States controlled by parasitic alien “slugs”, for a
quick recon before a planned attack to seize communication facilities. Sam
finds that the slugs are vastly more numerous than estimated, contrives to
get one of the slug-controlled humans alone, kills the slug, and attempts to escape
with the freed host for interrogation:

A limp man is amazingly hard to lift; it took me longer to get him up and
across my shoulders than it had to silence him. He was heavy. Fortunately
I am a big husky, all hands and feet; I managed a lumbering dog trot toward
the car. I doubt if the noise of our fight disturbed anyone but my victim’s
wife, but her screams must have aroused half that end of town. There were
people popping out of doors on both sides of the street. So far, none of
them was near, but I was glad to see that I had left the car door open.
I hurried toward it.

Then, I was sorry; a brat who looked like the twin of the one who had given me
trouble earlier was inside fiddling with the controls. Cursing, I dumped my
prisoner in the lounge circle and grabbed at the kid. The boy shrank back
and struggled, but I tore him loose and threw him out-straight into the
arms of the first of my pursuers.

That saved me. He was still untangling himself as I slammed into the driver’s
seat and shot forward without bothering with door or safety belt. As I took
the first corner the door swung shut and I almost went out of my seat; I then
held a straight course long enough to fasten the belt. I cut sharp on another
corner, nearly ran down a ground car coming out and went on.

I found the wide boulevard I needed-the Paseo, I think-and jabbed the
take-off key. Possibly I caused several wrecks; I had no time to worry about it.
Without waiting to reach altitude I wrestled her to course east and continued
to climb as I made easting. I kept her on manual as I crossed Missouri and
expended every launching unit in her racks to give her more speed. That
reckless and illegal action may have saved my neck; somewhere over
Columbia, just as I fired the last one, I felt the car shake to concussion.
Someone had launched an interceptor, a devil-chaser would be my
guess-and the pesky thing had fused where I had just been.

I find it interesting that Heinlein expresses the uncomfortable feeling that I
get from being in a moving car without my seat belt fastened, even though
seat belts were not even standard in American cars for more than a decade
after the story was published. Granted, it was a flying car, but note that
Sam is almost thrown out of his seat due to sharp turn while still on the
ground. I recall that my family’s 1961 Ford Falcon did not have seat belts
when we first got it.

I found with a brief Google search that a seat belt was used in 1849 for
George Cayley’s glider, Wilbur Wright used a seat belt in their 1908
airplane, and that Barney Oldfield used a safety harness in the 1922
Indianapolis 500. By the 1950s many people, for example neurologist
C. Hunter Shelden, were advocating seat belts for private automobiles.
The Sports Car Club of America required them for competitors in
1954, and they were available as an option for Ford and Buick in 1956.
Nils Brolin invented the three-point seat and shoulder belt for Volvo,
and they became standard equipment for Volvo in 1959. Belts became
required in new cars in all states by 1965.

Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Kevrob
2017-06-22 17:38:36 UTC
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
These guys were:



..and this duo:



Kevin R
p***@hotmail.com
2017-06-24 00:52:02 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
http://youtu.be/sq3cQVrnaWs
http://youtu.be/VeOCs3hRjlE
I notice in your first link that the seat belts shown are of the
center-buckle type, although Volvo had already invented the current
three-point combination seat and shoulder belts with side buckle
and made them standard equipment in 1959. The first American
diagonal shoulder belts were separate from the seat belts.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Lynn McGuire
2017-06-22 18:40:07 UTC
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On 6/21/2017 8:19 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.

Lynn
Greg Goss
2017-06-23 13:24:35 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.

I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
James Nicoll
2017-06-23 13:39:35 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
2017-06-23 18:05:51 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us.
Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.

The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we
hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other and
hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in her
body were broken.

Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his stomach.
A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically repaired. My
right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in the wreck and
broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.

I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.

Lynn
Robert Bannister
2017-06-26 01:44:28 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us.
Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we
hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other and
hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in her
body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his stomach.
A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically repaired. My
right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in the wreck and
broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Lynn McGuire
2017-06-27 20:20:17 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?

Lynn
J. Clarke
2017-06-27 20:58:58 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-27 21:45:48 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in
the 1950s? Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats
of our 1965 ??? Ford station wagon. We also installed
rear seat belts. He had to buy the front shoulder seat
belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had
to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad
installed the back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts
as early as 65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the
windshield to bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't
think any of our cars had seat belts until it was manditory
and I know we weren't that diligent about using them. In
the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his life
(t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in
my wreck, I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My
dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in
Navasota, Texas in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford
station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us. Dad put back seat
belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on
the curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back
on the road, crossing the white line and right into us. The
young lady and her mother were not wearing seat belts. She
survived with broken collar bone. Her mother flew out of
the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we hit for
the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the
bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat
belts. My middle brother had slipped down and had his seat
belt over his stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his
stomach and surgically repaired. My right leg was under the
front seat which collapsed in the wreck and broke my leg in
two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the
vehicles that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they
have been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more
comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to
wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been
in a civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and
shoulder deal you have in a car.
Only military pilots wear the full harness, and I suspect that has
more to do with ejection seats than crashes (which would be
guarnteed fatal if the pilot is still on board).

A better comparison is the sort of five point restraint systems
worn by race car drivers, which generally, these days, also include
head restraints to avoid neck damage as the car rolls over (and
over and over and over) at 200 mph.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2017-06-28 00:57:07 UTC
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In article <***@69.16.179.43>, ***@gmail.com
says...
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in
the 1950s? Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats
of our 1965 ??? Ford station wagon. We also installed
rear seat belts. He had to buy the front shoulder seat
belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad
installed the back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts
as early as 65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the
windshield to bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't
think any of our cars had seat belts until it was manditory
and I know we weren't that diligent about using them. In
the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his life
(t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in
my wreck, I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My
dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in
Navasota, Texas in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford
station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us. Dad put back seat
belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on
the curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back
on the road, crossing the white line and right into us. The
young lady and her mother were not wearing seat belts. She
survived with broken collar bone. Her mother flew out of
the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we hit for
the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the
bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat
belts. My middle brother had slipped down and had his seat
belt over his stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his
stomach and surgically repaired. My right leg was under the
front seat which collapsed in the wreck and broke my leg in
two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the
vehicles that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they
have been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more
comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to
wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been
in a civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and
shoulder deal you have in a car.
Only military pilots wear the full harness, and I suspect that has
more to do with ejection seats than crashes (which would be
guarnteed fatal if the pilot is still on board).
Acro pilots wear full harness too. Has to do with being able to maintain
control of the airplane while engaging in violent maneuvers including those
that involve negative gee.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-28 01:43:38 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate
in the 1950s? Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front
seats of our 1965 ??? Ford station wagon. We also
installed rear seat belts. He had to buy the front
shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the
Ford dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we
just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad
installed the back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder
belts as early as 65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the
windshield to bring him to a halt in car crashes. I
don't think any of our cars had seat belts until it was
manditory and I know we weren't that diligent about
using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that
saved his life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke
my seat belt in my wreck, I think it probably did reduce
the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in
Navasota, Texas in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford
station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us. Dad put back seat
belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road
on the curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car
back on the road, crossing the white line and right into
us. The young lady and her mother were not wearing seat
belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her mother
flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles
when we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated
around each other and hit twice). Her mother did not
survive since 60% of the bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat
belts. My middle brother had slipped down and had his
seat belt over his stomach. A vein was ripped loose from
his stomach and surgically repaired. My right leg was
under the front seat which collapsed in the wreck and
broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were
fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in
the vehicles that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since
they have been made so you can move about slowly, I find
it more comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we
don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never
been in a civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap
and shoulder deal you have in a car.
Only military pilots wear the full harness, and I suspect that
has more to do with ejection seats than crashes (which would be
guarnteed fatal if the pilot is still on board).
Acro pilots wear full harness too. Has to do with being able to
maintain control of the airplane while engaging in violent
maneuvers including those that involve negative gee.
For pilots, yeah. For racecar drivers, it's more about when they
have already *lost* control. It's an exact analogy to any other car
that has lost control.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Bannister
2017-06-29 02:15:57 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Joe Pfeiffer
2017-06-29 03:03:02 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How
does lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside
down?
If it's a plane intended for flying upside down (as opposed to being
capable of it in some technical sense), I imagine the requirements are
somewhat different.
D B Davis
2017-06-29 05:12:30 UTC
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Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How
does lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside
down?
If it's a plane intended for flying upside down (as opposed to being
capable of it in some technical sense), I imagine the requirements are
somewhat different.
The Citabria is a small acrobatic airplane with a roof. Here's a photo
of one flying upside down:

Loading Image...

They don't want you to fall out of your seat when you're upside down.
Here's a photo of a Citabria's seat belts (harness):

Loading Image...

BTW, the time seems ripe for me to re-invent myself and join the ranks
of Ahasuerus, Butch Malahide, Seawasp, and others. So this is the very
first post under my new nom de plume for rasw. Daniel Boone Davis is the
protagonist in my favorite sf story, _The Door Into Summer_ (RAH).

Thank you,

--
Don
J. Clarke
2017-06-29 08:57:18 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the
seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How
does lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside
down?
If it's a plane intended for flying upside down (as opposed to being
capable of it in some technical sense), I imagine the requirements are
somewhat different.
The Citabria is a small acrobatic airplane with a roof. Here's a photo
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Bellanca-Citabria/IMAGES/bellanca-citabria-title.jpg
They don't want you to fall out of your seat when you're upside down.
http://www.weekendcfii.com/photos/citabria/03X_belts.jpg
The same is true of the Cessna 150 Aerobat.

However neither is your standard light airplane.

Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
FBO.
Post by D B Davis
BTW, the time seems ripe for me to re-invent myself and join the ranks
of Ahasuerus, Butch Malahide, Seawasp, and others. So this is the very
first post under my new nom de plume for rasw. Daniel Boone Davis is the
protagonist in my favorite sf story, _The Door Into Summer_ (RAH).
Thank you,
Default User
2017-06-29 14:41:06 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
FBO.
That's my recollection. I have a friend who has a pilot's license, and in our younger days he would rent Cessna 172s and we would fly around the area.


Brian
J. Clarke
2017-06-29 08:54:18 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
If he's flying upside down then it's certificated in the "Aerobatic" class
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
Robert Bannister
2017-06-30 00:35:50 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
If he's flying upside down then it's certificated in the "Aerobatic" class
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
You young modernists!
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
J. Clarke
2017-06-30 02:22:27 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the
seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
If he's flying upside down then it's certificated in the "Aerobatic" class
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
You young modernists!
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
Jerry Brown
2017-06-30 17:31:25 UTC
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the
Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the
seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas in
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave
us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when
we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other
and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in
her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have been
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
It is a very long time since I have sat in the co-pilot's seat of a
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
If he's flying upside down then it's certificated in the "Aerobatic" class
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
You young modernists!
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
Here's a recent counter example:


The plane dates from 1943.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Michael F. Stemper
2017-06-30 18:19:07 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was not
previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation, over
seventy years ago, ...

Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-30 18:39:07 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
over seventy years ago, ...
It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling about.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
norm".
And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely *not*
a normal civilian aircraft.

This thread is covered with stupid.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Jerry Brown
2017-06-30 18:44:50 UTC
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
over seventy years ago, ...
The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from 1943.
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling about.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
norm".
And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely *not*
a normal civilian aircraft.
This thread is covered with stupid.
Mea culpa. I took "civilian" to mean anything non-military.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-30 20:01:08 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
over seventy years ago, ...
The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from 1943.
The conversation was about airplane design. Not video clips. Try to
pay attention.
Post by Jerry Brown
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling
about.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
norm".
And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely
*not* a normal civilian aircraft.
This thread is covered with stupid.
Mea culpa. I took "civilian" to mean anything non-military.
It's not the "civilian" part you're clueless about, it's the
"norm" part. Technically, SpaceShipOne is a civilian aircraft, but
it's hardly the norm.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2017-06-30 23:36:22 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
over seventy years ago, ...
The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from 1943.
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling about.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely *not*
a normal civilian aircraft.
This thread is covered with stupid.
Mea culpa. I took "civilian" to mean anything non-military.
By your logic open cockpit biplanes are _still_ "the norm" because it's
possible to buy one new today.
Robert Bannister
2017-07-01 01:17:40 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jerry Brown
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
http://youtu.be/TEByl5TU3As
The plane dates from 1943.
This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was not
previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation, over
seventy years ago, ...
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
Most planes have a very long life so long as they are maintained.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Dimensional Traveler
2017-06-27 21:44:32 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas
in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad
gave us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car
also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the
curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road,
crossing the white line and right into us. The young lady and her
mother were not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar
bone. Her mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two
vehicles when we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated
around each other and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since
60% of the bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have
been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable
wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness
like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-27 21:52:06 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in
the 1950s? Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats
of our 1965 ??? Ford station wagon. We also installed
rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad
installed the back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts
as early as 65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the
windshield to bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't
think any of our cars had seat belts until it was manditory
and I know we weren't that diligent about using them. In the
case of my brother's car crash, that saved his life (t-boned
at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota,
Texas in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon
that Mom's Dad gave us. Dad put back seat belts and
shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on
the curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on
the road, crossing the white line and right into us. The
young lady and her mother were not wearing seat belts. She
survived with broken collar bone. Her mother flew out of the
vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we hit for the
second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other and
hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the
bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat
belts. My middle brother had slipped down and had his seat
belt over his stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his
stomach and surgically repaired. My right leg was under the
front seat which collapsed in the wreck and broke my leg in
two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the
vehicles that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they
have been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more
comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to
wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
NASCAR thinks so. Well, knows so from bitter experience. HANS
doesn't look overly practical for real world driving, though.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Carnegie
2017-06-27 23:11:47 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas
in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad
gave us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car
also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the
curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road,
crossing the white line and right into us. The young lady and her
mother were not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar
bone. Her mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two
vehicles when we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated
around each other and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since
60% of the bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have
been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable
wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness
like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
Also, facing backwards. There are drawbacks.

I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-27 23:46:57 UTC
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On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:44:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in
the 1950s? Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front
seats of our 1965 ??? Ford station wagon. We also
installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat
belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad
installed the back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts
as early as 65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the
windshield to bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't
think any of our cars had seat belts until it was
manditory and I know we weren't that diligent about using
them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved
his life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat
belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who
was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in
Navasota, Texas in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford
station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us. Dad put back seat
belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road
on the curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car
back on the road, crossing the white line and right into
us. The young lady and her mother were not wearing seat
belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her mother
flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles
when we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated
around each other and hit twice). Her mother did not
survive since 60% of the bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat
belts. My middle brother had slipped down and had his seat
belt over his stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his
stomach and surgically repaired. My right leg was under
the front seat which collapsed in the wreck and broke my
leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the
vehicles that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since
they have been made so you can move about slowly, I find it
more comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't
have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
Also, facing backwards. There are drawbacks.
I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
One could easily set up a virtual reality screen to allow that
these days.

Of course, it'd be even safer yet to set that VR stuff up in the
club house and remote control the car.

Safety isn't really the top issue.

I wonder if NASCAR actually requires the driver to be *in* the car.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Michael F. Stemper
2017-06-29 14:54:43 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:44:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
more comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't
have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
Also, facing backwards. There are drawbacks.
I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
One could easily set up a virtual reality screen to allow that
these days.
Of course, it'd be even safer yet to set that VR stuff up in the
club house and remote control the car.
I would guess that not feeling the car's acceleration in the turns
would handicap the driver.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Deuteronomy 24:17
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-29 15:51:17 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:44:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
more comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't
have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
Also, facing backwards. There are drawbacks.
I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
One could easily set up a virtual reality screen to allow that
these days.
Of course, it'd be even safer yet to set that VR stuff up in
the club house and remote control the car.
I would guess that not feeling the car's acceleration in the
turns would handicap the driver.
Only until they got used to it. Or started hiring video game
wizards to drive the cars. That the cars can now exceed the
physicial limitations of the driver would allow for improved
performance, too. Kinda how the X-1 was only designed to withstand
so many g's, because more than that, the pilot would be dead
anyway.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Moriarty
2017-06-29 22:07:25 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:44:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
more comfortable wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't
have to wear a full harness like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
Yes.
Also, facing backwards. There are drawbacks.
I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
One could easily set up a virtual reality screen to allow that
these days.
Of course, it'd be even safer yet to set that VR stuff up in the
club house and remote control the car.
I would guess that not feeling the car's acceleration in the turns
would handicap the driver.
Even worse if facing backwards and acceleration pulls in the opposite direction to which you are used to.

-Moriarty
John Dallman
2017-06-27 23:54:00 UTC
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I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons_ that had
a design of truck where the driver sat backwards and viewed where
they were going on closed-circuit television.
Not exactly a truck - a kind of high-speed armoured fighting vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_Pursuit_Vehicle

John
Robert Bannister
2017-06-29 02:13:49 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Our 1960 Dodge had the front belts in place. My Dad installed the
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
We had a 70 mph to 70 mph car wreck on highway 6 in Navasota, Texas
in 1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad
gave us. Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car
also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the
curve onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road,
crossing the white line and right into us. The young lady and her
mother were not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar
bone. Her mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two
vehicles when we hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated
around each other and hit twice). Her mother did not survive since
60% of the bones in her body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his
stomach. A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically
repaired. My right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in
the wreck and broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Early seat belts were rigid and uncomfortable, but since they have
been made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable
wearing one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness
like pilots.
Would the full harness be safer ?
So I have read. Especially if you perform loop the loop a lot.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Gene Wirchenko
2017-06-30 02:53:25 UTC
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 10:13:49 +0800, Robert Bannister
[snip]
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Lynn McGuire
Would the full harness be safer ?
So I have read. Especially if you perform loop the loop a lot.
A lot being more than half a time?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
p***@hotmail.com
2017-06-24 00:56:17 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
In the 1960s civic organizations would set up in shopping center
parking lots and such places with mechanics and equipment; people
could drive their cars onto the portable ramps and have belts
installed while they waited.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Anthony Nance
2017-06-26 13:09:52 UTC
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
...
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
In the 1960s civic organizations would set up in shopping center
parking lots and such places with mechanics and equipment; people
could drive their cars onto the portable ramps and have belts
installed while they waited.
That happens nowadays with kids' car seats (minus the portable ramps).
- Tony
Robert Carnegie
2017-06-23 22:26:16 UTC
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Connoisseurs, fetishists, survivalists, and
flying-vehicle enthusiasts appreciate a five-point
harness or greater. I wonder if Heinlein's air car
has a three-pointer or a lap belt. Lap belts are
for stoics.
Cryptoengineer
2017-06-24 02:54:49 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Connoisseurs, fetishists, survivalists, and
flying-vehicle enthusiasts appreciate a five-point
harness or greater. I wonder if Heinlein's air car
has a three-pointer or a lap belt. Lap belts are
for stoics.
I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
against foreward and backward whiplash.

pt
Steve Coltrin
2017-06-24 06:23:34 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by Cryptoengineer
I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
against foreward and backward whiplash.
That exists in automotive racing.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
J. Clarke
2017-06-24 12:23:18 UTC
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Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by Cryptoengineer
I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
against foreward and backward whiplash.
That exists in automotive racing.
Note that they are riding in a nuclear powered armored vehicle with a roof
turret and there was reference to a "slam stop", which while not described,
might very well involve Juice. Seems a reasonable precaution.
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