"The Martian" - new evidence of Spuds on Mars!

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.html

This really brings home how crappy journalism is these days - eventually,
clicking through links, I figured out that the only 'Martian' conditions
involved are soil, and atmospheric composition (not pressure). They are
supplying warmth, pressure, and water far beyond what can be expected
on the Martian surface.

pt

a425couple

2017-03-11 17:20:47 UTC

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.html

OK,,,,,,
I guess I'm thinking that if they proved/knew that,
it would be pretty good.
I am just not real confident they have the Martian soil
composition down exactly correct.

I'm thinking, that if they actually had 1 cubic yard
of real Mars soil (from any surface area they chose)
and all they had to do was put it in a pressurized
(Mars atmoshpere) area, add water and heat ------
--- and they proved it could grow human edible crops ----
--- that would be great!

Kevrob

2017-03-11 17:35:58 UTC

Post by a425couple

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.html

OK,,,,,,
I guess I'm thinking that if they proved/knew that,
it would be pretty good.
I am just not real confident they have the Martian soil
composition down exactly correct.
I'm thinking, that if they actually had 1 cubic yard
of real Mars soil (from any surface area they chose)
and all they had to do was put it in a pressurized
(Mars atmoshpere) area, add water and heat ------
--- and they proved it could grow human edible crops ----
--- that would be great!

I'm actually more intrigued by the development, through
both GM methods, and breeding heritage strains, of
praties resistant to Late Blight.

I don't know if "I moved to Mars to escape the potato famine"
may be too much of a Paddy O'Durston story springboard.

Kevin R

nuny@bid.nes

2017-03-11 21:02:37 UTC

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.html

The soil simulant isn't well described either. IIRC Niven's Martians biochemistry was so weird they burst into flame on contact with human-shirtsleeve air because of the moisture, not the oxygen. I also recall his idea was based on early Viking Lander indications the Martian soil was very reactive to water and whatnot, and current science indicates it's loaded with nasty perchlorates and stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_soil

Are there any Earth lifeforms that could survive/thrive in that (even given a little extra added water) which don't currently live in volcano vents? I mean, even water bears would have a hard time on raw Martian soil at local STP even ignoring the solar UV and other radiation, right?

I see some extreme environmentalists promoting insects as the Next Big Thing in mass-market proteins, but expecting Martian colonists to survive on water bear soup would be going a bit too far.

Mark L. Fergerson

a***@yahoo.com

2017-03-13 18:10:24 UTC

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.html

So basically you're saying that they didn't shed significant light on this issue? (Previous discussion in this group about "The Martian" novel suggests that getting enough light on Mars to grow potatoes was going to be a real problem. )

Cryptoengineer

2017-03-14 02:01:02 UTC

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.
html

This really brings home how crappy journalism is these days -
eventually, clicking through links, I figured out that the only
'Martian' conditions involved are soil, and atmospheric composition
(not pressure). They are supplying warmth, pressure, and water far
beyond what can be expected on the Martian surface.

So basically you're saying that they didn't shed significant light on
this issue? (Previous discussion in this group about "The Martian"
novel suggests that getting enough light on Mars to grow potatoes was
going to be a real problem. )

Reading the popsci headlines and articles seemed to imply that
they were growing under 'Martian Conditions'; ie, sub-zero cold,
near vacuum, and high radiation. That is to say, in the way Mark
Watney couldn't; He grew them indoors, in a steamy room.

Its actually really hard to find *anything* which puts numbers
on the conditions. They're using South American desert soils,
and 95% CO2. But the clear box they're growing them in sure doesn't
look like it could hold a vacuum, nor does it appear to be
refrigerated. The press release talks about 'delivering nutrient
rich water' so the temperature must be above freezing, and the
pressure (described as 'low' in the video) high enough to keep it
from vaporizing.

The CIPs website for the project is remarkably number-free, so
it isn't the just the journalists who are not providing data.
I get the strong feeling that this is a mainly a PR effort by
CIP, more than it is a serious endeavour. Why won't they list
the actual pressure and temperature?

pt

Robert Carnegie

2017-03-14 08:53:57 UTC

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.
html

This really brings home how crappy journalism is these days -
eventually, clicking through links, I figured out that the only
'Martian' conditions involved are soil, and atmospheric composition
(not pressure). They are supplying warmth, pressure, and water far
beyond what can be expected on the Martian surface.

So basically you're saying that they didn't shed significant light on
this issue? (Previous discussion in this group about "The Martian"
novel suggests that getting enough light on Mars to grow potatoes was
going to be a real problem. )

Reading the popsci headlines and articles seemed to imply that
they were growing under 'Martian Conditions'; ie, sub-zero cold,
near vacuum, and high radiation. That is to say, in the way Mark
Watney couldn't; He grew them indoors, in a steamy room.
Its actually really hard to find *anything* which puts numbers
on the conditions. They're using South American desert soils,
and 95% CO2. But the clear box they're growing them in sure doesn't
look like it could hold a vacuum, nor does it appear to be
refrigerated. The press release talks about 'delivering nutrient
rich water' so the temperature must be above freezing, and the
pressure (described as 'low' in the video) high enough to keep it
from vaporizing.
The CIPs website for the project is remarkably number-free, so
it isn't the just the journalists who are not providing data.
I get the strong feeling that this is a mainly a PR effort by
CIP, more than it is a serious endeavour. Why won't they list
the actual pressure and temperature?

On Mars, Earth-ish pressure and temperature are
achievable, or there's no point sending people.
And if there aren't people there, just the robots
like now, then there isn't a lot of point growing
potatoes anyway. They're kind of expensive to
export back to Earth.

nuny@bid.nes

2017-03-14 18:29:09 UTC

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.
html

This really brings home how crappy journalism is these days -
eventually, clicking through links, I figured out that the only
'Martian' conditions involved are soil, and atmospheric composition
(not pressure). They are supplying warmth, pressure, and water far
beyond what can be expected on the Martian surface.

So basically you're saying that they didn't shed significant light on
this issue? (Previous discussion in this group about "The Martian"
novel suggests that getting enough light on Mars to grow potatoes was
going to be a real problem. )

Reading the popsci headlines and articles seemed to imply that
they were growing under 'Martian Conditions'; ie, sub-zero cold,
near vacuum, and high radiation. That is to say, in the way Mark
Watney couldn't; He grew them indoors, in a steamy room.
Its actually really hard to find *anything* which puts numbers
on the conditions. They're using South American desert soils,
and 95% CO2. But the clear box they're growing them in sure doesn't
look like it could hold a vacuum, nor does it appear to be
refrigerated. The press release talks about 'delivering nutrient
rich water' so the temperature must be above freezing, and the
pressure (described as 'low' in the video) high enough to keep it
from vaporizing.
The CIPs website for the project is remarkably number-free, so
it isn't the just the journalists who are not providing data.
I get the strong feeling that this is a mainly a PR effort by
CIP, more than it is a serious endeavour. Why won't they list
the actual pressure and temperature?

The actual CIP goal AIUI is to end up with potatoes that will flourish in the Atacama and similar harsh environments. The Mars thing is a handy SF/movie clickbait tie-in.

Post by Robert Carnegie
On Mars, Earth-ish pressure and temperature are
achievable, or there's no point sending people.
And if there aren't people there, just the robots
like now, then there isn't a lot of point growing
potatoes anyway. They're kind of expensive to
export back to Earth.

Still, there are extreme foodies here on Earth who would buy them. I mean, they buy 24k gold sundaes and $5000 burgers...

http://www.businessinsider.com/14-most-expensive-restaurant-dishes-2011-3

Mark L. Fergerson

Kevrob

2017-03-15 08:29:43 UTC

Post by ***@bid.nes

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by a425couple
http://www.space.com/36015-potatoes-grow-mars-conditions-experiment.
html

This really brings home how crappy journalism is these days -
eventually, clicking through links, I figured out that the only
'Martian' conditions involved are soil, and atmospheric composition
(not pressure). They are supplying warmth, pressure, and water far
beyond what can be expected on the Martian surface.

So basically you're saying that they didn't shed significant light on
this issue? (Previous discussion in this group about "The Martian"
novel suggests that getting enough light on Mars to grow potatoes was
going to be a real problem. )

Reading the popsci headlines and articles seemed to imply that
they were growing under 'Martian Conditions'; ie, sub-zero cold,
near vacuum, and high radiation. That is to say, in the way Mark
Watney couldn't; He grew them indoors, in a steamy room.
Its actually really hard to find *anything* which puts numbers
on the conditions. They're using South American desert soils,
and 95% CO2. But the clear box they're growing them in sure doesn't
look like it could hold a vacuum, nor does it appear to be
refrigerated. The press release talks about 'delivering nutrient
rich water' so the temperature must be above freezing, and the
pressure (described as 'low' in the video) high enough to keep it
from vaporizing.
The CIPs website for the project is remarkably number-free, so
it isn't the just the journalists who are not providing data.
I get the strong feeling that this is a mainly a PR effort by
CIP, more than it is a serious endeavour. Why won't they list
the actual pressure and temperature?

The actual CIP goal AIUI is to end up with potatoes that will flourish in the Atacama and similar harsh environments. The Mars thing is a handy SF/movie clickbait tie-in.

Still, there are extreme foodies here on Earth who would buy them. I mean, they buy 24k gold sundaes and $5000 burgers...
http://www.businessinsider.com/14-most-expensive-restaurant-dishes-2011-3

"...but are they organic, artisanal martian potatoes?"

Kevin R

Robert Carnegie

2017-03-15 19:33:29 UTC

Post by Kevrob

Post by ***@bid.nes

Post by Robert Carnegie