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"The Vote is in" by David Weber
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Lynn McGuire
2018-06-20 01:31:37 UTC
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"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone.html

"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies of the
2018 convention is now closed."

"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue apolitical
invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that guests, once invited,
will not be disinvited because of political hate campaigns waged online
after the invitations are announced."

Wow squared !

Lynn
-dsr-
2018-06-20 13:23:27 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone.html
"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies of the
2018 convention is now closed."
"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue apolitical
invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that guests, once invited,
will not be disinvited because of political hate campaigns waged online
after the invitations are announced."
Wow squared !
Yes, it's amazing how whiny Weber has become. Not completely unexpected,
though, as I think it's endemic to elder authors who have become used
to getting their own way on everything.

-dsr-
Robert Woodward
2018-06-20 16:54:48 UTC
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Post by -dsr-
Post by Lynn McGuire
"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone.html
"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies of the
2018 convention is now closed."
"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue apolitical
invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that guests, once invited,
will not be disinvited because of political hate campaigns waged online
after the invitations are announced."
Wow squared !
Yes, it's amazing how whiny Weber has become. Not completely unexpected,
though, as I think it's endemic to elder authors who have become used
to getting their own way on everything.
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Carl Fink
2018-06-20 17:26:00 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
James Nicoll
2018-06-20 18:22:35 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2018-06-20 19:37:39 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
Thanks.

I don't speak for any current con, the one I chaired being on indefinite
hiatus, but on my personal behalf: nope. Not going to happen.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Robert Woodward
2018-06-21 17:06:21 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
First of all, speaking hypothetically, there is a difference between you
hearing this individual saying that and a friend who mentioned that a
friend heard that this individual said that (or was at least in a room
where it was said). And secondly, I have little sympathy of people who
are too lazy to do their job properly.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2018-06-21 17:13:05 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
First of all, speaking hypothetically, there is a difference between you
hearing this individual saying that and a friend who mentioned that a
friend heard that this individual said that (or was at least in a room
where it was said). And secondly, I have little sympathy of people who
are too lazy to do their job properly.
How do you feel about the hypothetical case where the person was kind
enough to have bragged online that he called someone "Tits"?

I do admit I'd expect a concom to put in at least as much effort
researching guests as I currently do accepting friend requests on
facebook.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Woodward
2018-06-22 17:32:58 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely
hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
First of all, speaking hypothetically, there is a difference between you
hearing this individual saying that and a friend who mentioned that a
friend heard that this individual said that (or was at least in a room
where it was said). And secondly, I have little sympathy of people who
are too lazy to do their job properly.
How do you feel about the hypothetical case where the person was kind
enough to have bragged online that he called someone "Tits"?
That does indicate a significant level of innate rudeness. Though, still
speaking hypothetically, how annoying had that someone had been to the
person in question should not be ignored.
Post by James Nicoll
I do admit I'd expect a concom to put in at least as much effort
researching guests as I currently do accepting friend requests on
facebook.
I am somewhat curious on how much time you spend for that? 1 minute? 10
minutes? an hour?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2018-06-22 17:47:59 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
First of all, speaking hypothetically, there is a difference between you
hearing this individual saying that and a friend who mentioned that a
friend heard that this individual said that (or was at least in a room
where it was said). And secondly, I have little sympathy of people who
are too lazy to do their job properly.
How do you feel about the hypothetical case where the person was kind
enough to have bragged online that he called someone "Tits"?
That does indicate a significant level of innate rudeness. Though, still
speaking hypothetically, how annoying had that someone had been to the
person in question should not be ignored.
Post by James Nicoll
I do admit I'd expect a concom to put in at least as much effort
researching guests as I currently do accepting friend requests on
facebook.
I am somewhat curious on how much time you spend for that? 1 minute? 10
minutes? an hour?
I use a default to no system so if I look at their profile and fail
to see a logical reason why they'd friend me, I pass. Someone whose
profile is blank? Immediate pass.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
James Nicoll
2018-06-22 17:49:48 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Not sure how you mean that. As a person who used to invite guests to cons,
are you suggesting that I should be forbidden to pick guests, and instead
be compelled to choose based on some sort of randomizer?
I believe the thesis here is if a concom, speaking entirely hypothetically,
didn't do due diligence and invited a guest who had bragged at length
about referring to another guest as "Tits", then the concom should be
bound to honour the invitation regardless of the message this might send
any women planning to attend.
First of all, speaking hypothetically, there is a difference between you
hearing this individual saying that and a friend who mentioned that a
friend heard that this individual said that (or was at least in a room
where it was said). And secondly, I have little sympathy of people who
are too lazy to do their job properly.
How do you feel about the hypothetical case where the person was kind
enough to have bragged online that he called someone "Tits"?
That does indicate a significant level of innate rudeness. Though, still
speaking hypothetically, how annoying had that someone had been to the
person in question should not be ignored.
Post by James Nicoll
I do admit I'd expect a concom to put in at least as much effort
researching guests as I currently do accepting friend requests on
facebook.
I am somewhat curious on how much time you spend for that? 1 minute? 10
minutes? an hour?
I use a default to no system so if I look at their profile and fail
to see a logical reason why they'd friend me, I pass. Someone whose
profile is blank? Immediate pass.
Sometimes this backfires. I almost didn't friend a co-worker because
I didn't recognize them with my work place cognitive filters off.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
2018-06-20 17:40:17 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by -dsr-
Post by Lynn McGuire
"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone.html
"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies of the
2018 convention is now closed."
"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue apolitical
invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that guests, once invited,
will not be disinvited because of political hate campaigns waged online
after the invitations are announced."
Wow squared !
Yes, it's amazing how whiny Weber has become. Not completely unexpected,
though, as I think it's endemic to elder authors who have become used
to getting their own way on everything.
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
Larry Correia was disinvited from whatever the Origins CON is.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/05/30/origins-sent-out-yet-another-message-about-me-and-my-response/
and

http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/05/15/statement-concerning-my-being-disinvited-as-the-guest-of-honor-for-origins-game-fair/

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-20 19:18:10 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
I don't know about *valid* reasons, but "never bathing from one
year to the next" and "walking through the halls talking crazy to
yourself in an excessively loud voice" sound like *understandable*
(even if invalid) reasons.

And whether "hate speech" and "uninvited touching" can be
criminal charges depends on whether one can bring enough
evidence to bring a criminal case against them.

In the end, it's up to the ConComm to establish boundaries and
publish them, and then to judge any complaints on a case-by-case
basis.

DunDraCon isn't your orindary SF con; for one thing, it's a
gaming con, and for another, the same committee (modulo committee
members quitting or dying and other members coming on*) has been
running it for the past forty-odd years.

We put a harrassment policy up on the webpage a couple years ago,
and reprint it in the program book, because it seemed necessary.

Our registration system is heavily computerized (all home-grown),
and one of the things it has is an option for rejecting a
membership if the name is flagged as someone we don't ever want
to have on our premises ever again. The set of such people has
one member at present, a guy whose known modus operandi was
groping underage girls. If he comes in and tries to register,
the terminal freezes and a message comes up telling the
volunteer to call Hal, or me, or our daughter Meg, or one of our
senior Reg people who knows what it's about.

Hal comments, "We've never actually used it, because he never
tried to register again, and I believe he got into legal trouble
in L.A. and is now a guest of the State."

But if anybody else acts sufficiently like a jerk, into the
database he'll go.

______
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
James Nicoll
2018-06-20 20:15:21 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-20 20:40:30 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Moriarty
2018-06-20 22:24:23 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
RQ 7th edition has been released as a pdf, with the dead tree edition out soon.

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-pdf/

You'll note Steve Perrin's name is on the cover. I've no idea whether that's because he's still actively involved or whether there's enough legacy material that they have to include him.

Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new editions in the hope that their players will go out and re-buy everything.

My current game is using Pathfinder, which supposedly has a new edition coming out next year. Pathfinder is very unusual in that it's only had one edition and is ten years old. Paizo, the makers, have made their money in producing adventures paths (campaigns) for it and selling those, rather than upgrading the system. Given that they've produced over of these twenty and we're just about to start the second(*), I suspect we'll stick with it for some time.

(*) Strange Aeons, GM'd by me. As you can tell from the title, its very Lovecraft influenced. The campaign starts with the PCs waking up in an asylum with no memories of who they are or how they got there. Then it goes downhill for them.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-20 22:33:34 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
RQ 7th edition has been released as a pdf, with the dead tree edition out soon.
https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-pdf/
You'll note Steve Perrin's name is on the cover. I've no idea whether
that's because he's still actively involved or whether there's enough
legacy material that they have to include him.
Neither do I. I'll ask him next time I see him ... which might
be next February. (Unlike the rest of the committee, he lives in
Southern California, so we don't see each other often.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-20 23:10:56 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Steve Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars
organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to
review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop
RPG, not a book. Are we on the same page?
RQ 7th edition has been released as a pdf, with the dead tree
edition out soon.
Nearly all role-playing games are published as some form of book,
certainly. Though, among independent publishers, e-books are *far*
more popular than paper editions.
Post by Moriarty
Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new
editions in the hope that their players will go out and re-buy
everything.
Historically, the real money is in rule books and expansions for
them, not adventures. Adventures tend to be lower page count, low
price, and often low margin. But necessary, because the market
doesn't much like games with no supplementary material available.
It was my impression that was the whole idea behind the Open Gaming
License when Wizards first started it: to shift the cost and
trouble of creating and publishing the low profit supplementary
stuff onto others, while WotC concentrated on the far more
profitable rule books. (And it worked.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
h***@gmail.com
2018-06-21 00:43:48 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Moriarty
Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new
editions in the hope that their players will go out and re-buy
everything.
Historically, the real money is in rule books and expansions for
them, not adventures. Adventures tend to be lower page count, low
price, and often low margin.
That's certainly true for a lot of the games
Pathfinder does seem to be a bit different with a 64 page adventure being released each month as part of an adventure path (normally meant to go from 1st level to 15th level or so over 6 modules) and a lot of people subscribing to that (plus free standing modules and pathfinder society scenarios).
Generally it helps that the adventures are pretty good
They've got subscriptions as well which a lot of people use so people have to take action not to buy an adventure path...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
But necessary, because the market
doesn't much like games with no supplementary material available.
It was my impression that was the whole idea behind the Open Gaming
License when Wizards first started it: to shift the cost and
trouble of creating and publishing the low profit supplementary
stuff onto others, while WotC concentrated on the far more
profitable rule books. (And it worked.)
That certainly matches what I heard at the time, Wizards produced very few adventures for 3.0.
They also licensed out Dragon and Dungeon (to Paizo who then produced pathfinder once the licence was removed and people were unhappy with 4th ed)
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:22:13 UTC
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On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:11:00 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Moriarty
Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new
editions in the hope that their players will go out and
re-buy everything.
Historically, the real money is in rule books and expansions
for them, not adventures. Adventures tend to be lower page
count, low price, and often low margin.
That's certainly true for a lot of the games
Pathfinder does seem to be a bit different with a 64 page
adventure being released each month as part of an adventure path
(normally meant to go from 1st level to 15th level or so over 6
modules) and a lot of people subscribing to that (plus free
standing modules and pathfinder society scenarios). Generally it
helps that the adventures are pretty good They've got
subscriptions as well which a lot of people use so people have
to take action not to buy an adventure path...
Yeah, they seem to have carved out an niche that's a very notable
exception to the usual rules. Good for them.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
But necessary, because the market
doesn't much like games with no supplementary material
available. It was my impression that was the whole idea behind
the Open Gaming License when Wizards first started it: to shift
the cost and trouble of creating and publishing the low profit
supplementary stuff onto others, while WotC concentrated on the
far more profitable rule books. (And it worked.)
That certainly matches what I heard at the time, Wizards
produced very few adventures for 3.0. They also licensed out
Dragon and Dungeon (to Paizo who then produced pathfinder once
the licence was removed and people were unhappy with 4th ed)
D&D isn't the all-consuming center of the hobby any more, and
hasn't been for a while. It's hard to tell how much Hasbro really
cares.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
s***@yahoo.com
2018-06-27 18:24:42 UTC
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RQ Trollpack (sp?) was so impressive I put together a team to create one in another culture.

Nils K. Hammer
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-13 13:24:19 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone.html
"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies of the
2018 convention is now closed."
"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue apolitical
invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that guests, once invited,
will not be disinvited because of political hate campaigns waged online
after the invitations are announced."
Wow squared !
So guests who happen to be Trumpers would be protected?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-07-13 16:15:48 UTC
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On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 6:31:45 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"The Vote is in" by David Weber
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/468-concarolinaspetitiondone
.html
"Our petition in favor of the policy on guest invitations for
ConCarolinas enunciated by Jada Hope at the closing ceremonies
of the 2018 convention is now closed."
"That policy, simply stated, is that ConCarolinas will issue
apolitical invitations to genre-appropriate guests and that
guests, once invited, will not be disinvited because of
political hate campaigns waged online after the invitations are
announced."
Wow squared !
So guests who happen to be Trumpers would be protected?
As would, appaerntly, Clintonistas.

But, of course, only one side is so terrified of any opinion they
don't agree with that they form mobs to suppress it.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
David DeLaney
2018-06-21 14:43:07 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new editions in the
hope that their players will go out and re-buy everything.
Well, and also in the hope that the bugfixes they've put in will curb some of
the brokenness and fix some of the issues the previous edition's gameplay and
rules had. D&D is somewhat extreme in this; 3rd Edition introduced entirely
new ways to use previous concepts and drastically unified the "roll a d20"
mechanism - but that was eclipsed by the changes made for 4th Edition. 5th
Edition in large part is much closer to 3E than to 4E, but hasn't gone all the
way back to the Open Gaming d20 System that 3E used (which made independent
game modules for it so attractive for other companies to mak, because for the
first time you COULD without explicitly contacting TSR and getting permission).
Post by Moriarty
My current game is using Pathfinder, which supposedly has a new edition
coming out next year. Pathfinder is very unusual in that it's only had one
edition and is ten years old.
... one big reason for which is that Pathfinder, almost literally, _took over_
the D&D 3rd Edition rules, mechanics, and cosmos when Wizards movrd on to 4E,
because so many players and fans liked 3E so extremely much for various
reasons. It seems to have worked pretty well for them.

[Someone should probably have tried to get White Wolf to agree to much the same
sort of thing after they apocalyptically wound down their various World of
Darkness Lines - Mage, Vampire, werewolf, Wraith, Mummy, Changeling, etc. -
in preparaton for New World of Darkness, which is somewhat bland and
underpowered / unexciting in comparison. Oh well.]
Post by Moriarty
Paizo, the makers, have made their money in producing adventures paths
(campaigns) for it and selling those, rather than upgrading the system. Given
that they've produced over of these twenty and we're just about to start the
second(*), I suspect we'll stick with it for some time.
Well, to be fair, they also make money by producing sourcebooks for it, though
they're nowhere near the overcompleteness that the TSR Monster Manual additions
had become by the time 3E / 3.5E ended.

Dave, Magic the Gathering also had fairly good reasons for its various rules
upheavals, for example; they've been pretty stable, with only how-to-assign-
blockers getting a makeover, since I left them in the early 2000s, and their
new Editions are now merely changing the mix of which csrds are in the basic
card set every 2 years, essentially
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Moriarty
2018-06-21 22:56:48 UTC
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Post by David DeLaney
Post by Moriarty
Most RPGs make their money by constantly coming up with new editions in the
hope that their players will go out and re-buy everything.
Well, and also in the hope that the bugfixes they've put in will curb some of
the brokenness and fix some of the issues the previous edition's gameplay and
rules had. D&D is somewhat extreme in this; 3rd Edition introduced entirely
new ways to use previous concepts and drastically unified the "roll a d20"
mechanism - but that was eclipsed by the changes made for 4th Edition. 5th
Edition in large part is much closer to 3E than to 4E, but hasn't gone all the
way back to the Open Gaming d20 System that 3E used (which made independent
game modules for it so attractive for other companies to mak, because for the
first time you COULD without explicitly contacting TSR and getting permission).
Post by Moriarty
My current game is using Pathfinder, which supposedly has a new edition
coming out next year. Pathfinder is very unusual in that it's only had one
edition and is ten years old.
... one big reason for which is that Pathfinder, almost literally, _took over_
the D&D 3rd Edition rules, mechanics, and cosmos when Wizards movrd on to 4E,
because so many players and fans liked 3E so extremely much for various
reasons. It seems to have worked pretty well for them.
D&D3.5 was a very good system. 4th ed was a massive step backwards. I can see why they did it though. 3.5 (and Pathfinder) are very complex in the character setup and advancement. They made it simpler to encourage new players
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Moriarty
Paizo, the makers, have made their money in producing adventures paths
(campaigns) for it and selling those, rather than upgrading the system. Given
that they've produced over of these twenty and we're just about to start the
second(*), I suspect we'll stick with it for some time.
Well, to be fair, they also make money by producing sourcebooks for it, though
they're nowhere near the overcompleteness that the TSR Monster Manual additions
had become by the time 3E / 3.5E ended.
Yeah, but as you know Bob, the sourcebooks aren't required to play the game as everything you need is thoroughly indexed on the paizo site or at d20pfsrd.com. Forex, one of my players is designing a Kitsune Oracle. Kitsune's are from the Advanced Race Guide, the Oracle class is from the Advanced Players Guide and it's archetypes and variations are in the Advanced Class Guide. But we don't need to buy those books, as all we need is at:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/uncommonRaces/kitsune.html

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedPlayersGuide/baseClasses/oracle.html

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedClassGuide/classOptions/oracle.html

The only sourcebook I'd say you really need in physical form is the Core Rulebook. And even that's only one book, as opposed to the two (DM's Guide and Player's Handbook) that D&D uses.

OTOH to actually play the Strange Aeons adventure path, I've ponied up for:

Six adventure path modules.
One map folio
Two pawn collections, one specific to this adventure path and a generic one.

The maps and pawn collections probably aren't necessary, but they do make it easier to GM.

-Moriarty
James Nicoll
2018-06-20 22:26:07 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
Yes. It's not unknown now for RPGs to have electronic editions and physical
ones. In the case of Glorantha, buying the pdf* gets one a credit against
the eventual physical book. Effectively, I get to spread the cost out over
time and I get to look at the material immediately.


1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape laptop
screens but they are handy for searches.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Moriarty
2018-06-20 22:33:13 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
Yes. It's not unknown now for RPGs to have electronic editions and physical
ones. In the case of Glorantha, buying the pdf* gets one a credit against
the eventual physical book. Effectively, I get to spread the cost out over
time and I get to look at the material immediately.
And many purchases of the physical book include the pdf thrown in.
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape laptop
screens but they are handy for searches.
I find it invaluable to have both on hand when GMing.

-Moriarty
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-20 23:12:08 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-21 00:05:03 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
James Nicoll
2018-06-21 01:10:50 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
Amazon uses mobi.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
J. Clarke
2018-06-21 01:47:08 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
Amazon uses mobi.
For certain values.

Amazon is moving to or has moved to a different format, KFX.
h***@gmail.com
2018-06-21 02:16:21 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
Amazon uses mobi.
For certain values.
Amazon is moving to or has moved to a different format, KFX.
started with mobi format, they've used the azw & azw3 file formats as well

I think all of the amazon formats are basically extensions to and wrappers around mobi.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:19:56 UTC
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On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 11:47:13 AM UTC+10, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of
landscape laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or
whatever the hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at
all.
Amazon uses mobi.
For certain values.
Amazon is moving to or has moved to a different format, KFX.
started with mobi format, they've used the azw & azw3 file
formats as well
I think all of the amazon formats are basically extensions to
and wrappers around mobi.
Not all. Anything that relies heavily on grahpics is another format
(not just comcis).
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-21 02:22:24 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
Amazon uses mobi.
Thank you, that sounds right. Thank heaven it's Bill's problem,
not mine.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:19:09 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
I forget what Amazon's format is called, but it's not .epub.
.Epub is what most of the other readers uses. Bill had a
difficult time getting _TIL_ to be readable by Kindles at all.
Amazon uses mobi.
Sort of, sometimes. It's not really .mobi any more, though, and
hasn't been for a long, long time. (Tbey own the rights to the
format, and can "update" is any time they want.) And they use other
formats, too, some of which are utterly incomprehensible to any
computer device not made by Amazon.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
h***@gmail.com
2018-06-21 00:44:38 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape
laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever the
hell Amazon's format is called these days.
Seconded.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:24:44 UTC
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On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:12:12 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by James Nicoll
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of
landscape laptop screens but they are handy for searches.
I do wish more game publishers would offer .epub, or whatever
the hell Amazon's format is called these days.
Seconded.
I will admit, though, that there are obstacles when trying to format
a manuscript that relies heavily on tables.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Carl Fink
2018-06-21 17:02:04 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
Yes. It's not unknown now for RPGs to have electronic editions and physical
ones. In the case of Glorantha, buying the pdf* gets one a credit against
the eventual physical book. Effectively, I get to spread the cost out over
time and I get to look at the material immediately.
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape laptop
screens but they are handy for searches.
I co-wrote an edition of RQ once myself. (I was the least important of 5 authors,
mind you.)

As for PDFs--they don't have to be portrait, but that's the common format
for reasons that boil down to tradition. You might consider getting a large
tablet. Android tablets are very inexpensive and you can hold them in
portrait mode while reading PDFs.

For that matter, my last laptop was a foldable that could turn into a tablet
and be used in landscape mode.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink
James Nicoll
2018-06-21 17:37:08 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of the original DunDraCon Committee, one member remains: Steve
Perrin, co-creator of _Runequest_ and current Seminars organizer.
Huh. I just bought the new RQ. Waiting for the hardcover to review it.
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
not a book. Are we on the same page?
Yes. It's not unknown now for RPGs to have electronic editions and physical
ones. In the case of Glorantha, buying the pdf* gets one a credit against
the eventual physical book. Effectively, I get to spread the cost out over
time and I get to look at the material immediately.
1: I hate pdfs because they are portrait in a world of landscape laptop
screens but they are handy for searches.
I co-wrote an edition of RQ once myself. (I was the least important of 5 authors,
mind you.)
As for PDFs--they don't have to be portrait, but that's the common format
for reasons that boil down to tradition. You might consider getting a large
tablet. Android tablets are very inexpensive and you can hold them in
portrait mode while reading PDFs.
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 13:31:53 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.

In fact, a quick search says that they can:
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-your-kobo-ereader
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
James Nicoll
2018-06-22 13:35:39 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-your-kobo-ereader
It can but the experience is ... unpleasant.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
James Nicoll
2018-06-22 15:52:20 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-your-kobo-ereader
It can but the experience is ... unpleasant.
Speaking of things one can do with a Kobo, it is possible but not in
any way recommended save as a last resort to browse the web using the
Kobo. Not just the store (although that's where it will helpfully send
you if it can) but FB, twitter, the other interwebs. Just don't expect
the battery to last long if you try, and expect the experience to be
slow and painful.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Jerry Brown
2018-06-22 16:45:46 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-your-kobo-ereader
It can but the experience is ... unpleasant.
Speaking of things one can do with a Kobo, it is possible but not in
any way recommended save as a last resort to browse the web using the
Kobo. Not just the store (although that's where it will helpfully send
you if it can) but FB, twitter, the other interwebs. Just don't expect
the battery to last long if you try, and expect the experience to be
slow and painful.
The Kindle can do this as well, with similar drawbacks. I believe the
browser is included for when using wifi in restaurants, pubs, etc,
which require a password to be entered via a browser.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 17:00:33 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
Post by James Nicoll
Speaking of things one can do with a Kobo, it is possible but not in
any way recommended save as a last resort to browse the web using the
Kobo. Not just the store (although that's where it will helpfully send
you if it can) but FB, twitter, the other interwebs. Just don't expect
the battery to last long if you try, and expect the experience to be
slow and painful.
The Kindle can do this as well, with similar drawbacks. I believe the
browser is included for when using wifi in restaurants, pubs, etc,
which require a password to be entered via a browser.
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.

Mind you, I'm of the "computer" variety of nerd.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
James Nicoll
2018-06-22 17:05:01 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 17:39:57 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I'm sure it's perfect for your use.

I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-06-22 18:23:59 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I'm sure it's perfect for your use.
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Wait, is that all?

I have two desktop computers (one Mac, one Windows), two laptops, a
tablet, and a smartphone, and I'm very surprised if I really have more
gadgetry than you do.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 21:08:43 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Carl Fink
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Wait, is that all?
I have two desktop computers (one Mac, one Windows), two laptops, a
tablet, and a smartphone, and I'm very surprised if I really have more
gadgetry than you do.
Does that include devices your wife uses?

For years now, I've given away anything I don't anticipate using again. My
sister got two laptops, for instance. I've given away at least two tablets
over the years as well.

I don't own a house, as you do, so I have constrained storage space.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-06-23 04:01:08 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Carl Fink
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Wait, is that all?
I have two desktop computers (one Mac, one Windows), two laptops, a
tablet, and a smartphone, and I'm very surprised if I really have more
gadgetry than you do.
Does that include devices your wife uses?
No. She has a large laptop and an iPhone.
Post by Carl Fink
For years now, I've given away anything I don't anticipate using again. My
sister got two laptops, for instance. I've given away at least two tablets
over the years as well.
I don't own a house, as you do, so I have constrained storage space.
That would indeed make a difference.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Scott Lurndal
2018-06-22 19:46:59 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I'm sure it's perfect for your use.
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Heck, I have two vlans, a DMZ and four externally facing servers in addition
to the desktops, laptops and a android tablet. Yet
the Nook is far superior to a more general-purpose tablet or handheld
computer.
Kevrob
2018-06-22 20:24:40 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Carl Fink
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Heck, I have two vlans, a DMZ and four externally facing servers in addition
to the desktops, laptops and a android tablet. Yet
the Nook is far superior to a more general-purpose tablet or handheld
computer.
ObComic Strips:

/strip/1992-12-31

Dilbert v TechnoBill?

Kevin R
(I have a 100 pairs of stretch socks....)
Dimensional Traveler
2018-06-22 21:06:20 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I'm sure it's perfect for your use.
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Heck, I have two vlans, a DMZ and four externally facing servers in addition
to the desktops, laptops and a android tablet. Yet
the Nook is far superior to a more general-purpose tablet or handheld
computer.
"a DMZ" O_o Your computers have a tendency to war with each other?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Quadibloc
2018-06-23 04:27:51 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
"a DMZ" O_o Your computers have a tendency to war with each other?
Nah. That's for the war between you and your computers and those nasty hackers who
are lurking out there on the Internet.

John Savard
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-06-23 09:08:00 UTC
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:06:20 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I'm sure it's perfect for your use.
I'm the person who currently owns three computers, a tablet and a
smartphone, not counting my work tablet and computer. And I have my own
server, to go with my two externally-hosted blogs. I really am not the
typical device buyer.
Heck, I have two vlans, a DMZ and four externally facing servers in addition
to the desktops, laptops and a android tablet. Yet
the Nook is far superior to a more general-purpose tablet or handheld
computer.
"a DMZ" O_o Your computers have a tendency to war with each other?
DMZ is a poor name, it's a nook of your network that faces the Internet
but is isolated from the rest of your internal network. You use it (as
Scott does) to put in Internet-facing servers for websites or whatever
to prevent any hijackers from using them as a stepping stone onto your
more personal machines.

Usually you'd set them up so you can push updates from your personal
machine to a DMZ machine, but it's a one-way thing.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected
abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the
last time you needed one?" - Tom Cargil, C++ Journal
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 21:10:20 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Heck, I have two vlans, a DMZ and four externally facing servers in addition
to the desktops, laptops and a android tablet. Yet
the Nook is far superior to a more general-purpose tablet or handheld
computer.
Maybe for you, is all I can say to that. I acknowledge the battery thing but
it never affects me. I can read the glowing screen just fine, and its lesser
visibility in bright late has never really made a difference to me.

Not challenging your reaction, just saying that people's preferences differ.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Scott Lurndal
2018-06-22 19:45:16 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
I like my Kobo because the battery lasts a couple of weeks between charges
and it's very light.
I like my original Nooks for the same reason, plus the e-ink is much
more suited to reading outdoors when compared with standard tablet
screens.
Greg Goss
2018-06-25 05:14:30 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
Mind you, I'm of the "computer" variety of nerd.
I use the eReader (originally Sony, currently Kobo) if I want to read
books in full sunlight.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Carl Fink
2018-06-25 14:15:25 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Carl Fink
This is, of course, why I bought an Android tablet (which can read Kobo and
Kindle books, should I so desire) rather than a dedicated company-store
ereader. Ereaders have advantages--the old paperwhite Kindles had
astonishingly long battery life--but I'm much happier with a more
general-purpose handheld computer.
Mind you, I'm of the "computer" variety of nerd.
I use the eReader (originally Sony, currently Kobo) if I want to read
books in full sunlight.
"... Ereaders have advantages ..."
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Greg Goss
2018-06-25 05:13:23 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Speaking of things one can do with a Kobo, it is possible but not in
any way recommended save as a last resort to browse the web using the
Kobo. Not just the store (although that's where it will helpfully send
you if it can) but FB, twitter, the other interwebs. Just don't expect
the battery to last long if you try, and expect the experience to be
slow and painful.
My first Kobo did not have WiFi, if I remember right. My current one
does.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:28:47 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal with
pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-you
r-kobo-ereader
The screen is generally too small, and while PDFs can be zoomed, they
don't re-flow when you do.

Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much impossible.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Carl Fink
2018-06-22 17:41:43 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal with
pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-you
r-kobo-ereader
The screen is generally too small, and while PDFs can be zoomed, they
don't re-flow when you do.
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much impossible.
I read PDFs on my phone's 4.5" screen regularly. Granted it's a struggle,
but that's why upthread some ways I recommended a "large" tablet. PDFs work
fine on my 10" tablet.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-22 17:43:41 UTC
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On 2018-06-22, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal with
pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-y
ou r-kobo-ereader
The screen is generally too small, and while PDFs can be
zoomed, they don't re-flow when you do.
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much
impossible.
I read PDFs on my phone's 4.5" screen regularly.
I'm happy for you.
Granted it's a
struggle, but that's why upthread some ways I recommended a
"large" tablet. PDFs work fine on my 10" tablet.
the odds of me ever trying to read more than a paragraph or two of
a PDF on anything other than a desktop are pretty close to zero.
Especially something as unimportant as a game book.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2018-06-23 04:30:41 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much impossible.
I read PDFs on my smartphone (and not an unusually big smartphone, like the one
Samsung makes) all the time.

Ah, yes: I keep forgetting about your Earth vision ratio. ("See what this
microfilm says?" "Are you kidding?" - Martin O'Hara and Tim O'Hara, from issue
#1 of the Gold Key My Favorite Martian comic, notable because it was drawn by
Russ Manning.)

While not Martian, I am myopic, so that helps.

John Savard
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-06-23 05:36:38 UTC
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On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:28:52 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much
impossible.
I read PDFs on my smartphone (and not an unusually big
smartphone, like the one Samsung makes) all the time.
Ah, yes: I keep forgetting about your Earth vision ratio. ("See
what this microfilm says?" "Are you kidding?" - Martin O'Hara
and Tim O'Hara, from issue #1 of the Gold Key My Favorite
Martian comic, notable because it was drawn by Russ Manning.)
While not Martian, I am myopic, so that helps.
I am myopic nearly to the point of being legally blind without
correction.

No, it doesn't.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
m***@sky.com
2018-06-23 17:49:17 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:28:52 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much
impossible.
I read PDFs on my smartphone (and not an unusually big
smartphone, like the one Samsung makes) all the time.
Ah, yes: I keep forgetting about your Earth vision ratio. ("See
what this microfilm says?" "Are you kidding?" - Martin O'Hara
and Tim O'Hara, from issue #1 of the Gold Key My Favorite
Martian comic, notable because it was drawn by Russ Manning.)
While not Martian, I am myopic, so that helps.
I am myopic nearly to the point of being legally blind without
correction.
No, it doesn't.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
I think it depends on the degree of the myopia. The borderline for high degree myopia is -6 dioptres, at which point the eye wants to focus at 1/6th of a metre, which wouldn't be too bad for a smartphone. The NHS complex prescription allowance kicks in at -10 dioptres, which is getting iffy. Standard glasses start struggling at -20 dioptres, at which point you'ld go cross-eyed trying to use both eyes, and the band of good focus is narrow enough that it needs to be searched for. All of this assumes that you only have a moderate degree of astigmatism along with the myopia.
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-06-23 18:50:58 UTC
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Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:28:52 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Trying to read a PDF on my 7" tablet would be pretty much
impossible.
I read PDFs on my smartphone (and not an unusually big
smartphone, like the one Samsung makes) all the time.
Ah, yes: I keep forgetting about your Earth vision ratio.
("See what this microfilm says?" "Are you kidding?" - Martin
O'Hara and Tim O'Hara, from issue #1 of the Gold Key My
Favorite Martian comic, notable because it was drawn by Russ
Manning.)
While not Martian, I am myopic, so that helps.
I am myopic nearly to the point of being legally blind without
correction.
No, it doesn't.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
I think it depends on the degree of the myopia.
I expect it has more to do with the resolution of the screen, and,
perhaps, other factors affecting vision than myopia, such as
getting old.

The main factor, though, is that while you can zoom in on a PDF, it
won't reflow, so once you zoom in past where a line of text still
fits on the screen, you have to swipe back and forth to continue.
And that's a pain in the ass, and not worth the trouble.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Greg Goss
2018-06-24 18:25:23 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing [1]. I am
not keen on buying another device just to deal with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-your-kobo-ereader
I was under the impression that the locked version of ePub that Kobo
uses was designed by Adobe. I would be surprised if it didn't support
Adobe's most famous protocol. But I hate, hate, hate reading PDF on
anything smaller than 13 inch screen. And there are many other
reasons to hate PDF - eg, you can cut'n'paste from a web page ore
almost anything else, but a cut'n'paste from a PDF is either truly
incomprehensible (Wednesday this week) or badly formatted enough that
it may as well be incomprehensible.

I am on my second Kobo, but as an introverted nerd, I'm not stuck out
in the sunshine enough to need anything other than my phone. I bought
the second Kobo to use at a job where I had to sit in the sunshine and
deal with periodic bursts of customers, interspersed with long waits.
Reading on my phone doesn't cut it in the sunshine.

My first eReader (a Sony, then a warranty replacement Sony) also used
a locked version of ePub. When the second Sony died, I bought a Kobo
mini, marked at $90, but turned out to be on a half price sale when I
got to the cashier. The Sony was before I started reading books on
phones; The second was deliberately for daytime reading. When the
Kobo died, I bought another identical-but-colour Kobo mini.

Shirt pocket carrying is important to me in a book. The full-size
Kobo would fit, but then the phone wouldn't fit, too. So it's a mini
or nothing. And paper books are long-scorned for exactly this reason.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-06-24 19:17:22 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal with
pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-you
r-kobo-ereader
I was under the impression that the locked version of ePub that
Kobo uses was designed by Adobe. I would be surprised if it
didn't support Adobe's most famous protocol.
I expect they'll read unencrypted versions, too, of any format
they'll read at all. Everybody else's does, and some publishers
don't like selling encrypted files.
Post by Greg Goss
But I hate, hate,
hate reading PDF on anything smaller than 13 inch screen.
I don't hate it so much as it isn't functional.
Post by Greg Goss
And
there are many other reasons to hate PDF - eg, you can
cut'n'paste from a web page ore almost anything else, but a
cut'n'paste from a PDF is either truly incomprehensible
(Wednesday this week) or badly formatted enough that it may as
well be incomprehensible.
That's a feature of the particular PDFs, not of the format. I copy
& paste from PDFs all the time, without issue.
Post by Greg Goss
Shirt pocket carrying is important to me in a book. The
full-size Kobo would fit, but then the phone wouldn't fit, too.
So it's a mini or nothing. And paper books are long-scorned for
exactly this reason.
I used to be very particular about 7" tablets that would fit a back
pants pocket, but while my current Samsung Android table will fit,
the child-resistant protective case will not. :(
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-06-24 21:11:01 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal with
pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-you
r-kobo-ereader
I was under the impression that the locked version of ePub that
Kobo uses was designed by Adobe. I would be surprised if it
didn't support Adobe's most famous protocol.
I expect they'll read unencrypted versions, too, of any format
they'll read at all. Everybody else's does, and some publishers
don't like selling encrypted files.
Post by Greg Goss
But I hate, hate,
hate reading PDF on anything smaller than 13 inch screen.
I don't hate it so much as it isn't functional.
Post by Greg Goss
And
there are many other reasons to hate PDF - eg, you can
cut'n'paste from a web page ore almost anything else, but a
cut'n'paste from a PDF is either truly incomprehensible
(Wednesday this week) or badly formatted enough that it may as
well be incomprehensible.
That's a feature of the particular PDFs, not of the format. I copy
& paste from PDFs all the time, without issue.
It depends on _how_ the PDF was created or saved. Saved as an image
(picture), saved from an image, saved as text, saved as any of a half
dozen different ways times extras like text fields, signatures, etc. I
have to deal with PDFs all day at work because that's what the courts use.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-06-25 00:47:59 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
I have a Kobo for ebooks and a laptop for work and browsing
[1]. I am not keen on buying another device just to deal
with pdfs.
Pretty sure a Kobo can read PDFs.
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/article/3484/reading-pdfas-on-
you r-kobo-ereader
I was under the impression that the locked version of ePub
that Kobo uses was designed by Adobe. I would be surprised if
it didn't support Adobe's most famous protocol.
I expect they'll read unencrypted versions, too, of any format
they'll read at all. Everybody else's does, and some publishers
don't like selling encrypted files.
Post by Greg Goss
But I hate, hate,
hate reading PDF on anything smaller than 13 inch screen.
I don't hate it so much as it isn't functional.
Post by Greg Goss
And
there are many other reasons to hate PDF - eg, you can
cut'n'paste from a web page ore almost anything else, but a
cut'n'paste from a PDF is either truly incomprehensible
(Wednesday this week) or badly formatted enough that it may as
well be incomprehensible.
That's a feature of the particular PDFs, not of the format. I
copy & paste from PDFs all the time, without issue.
It depends on _how_ the PDF was created or saved.
And other things, like security settings. As I said, it's an issue
with particular files, not the format.
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Saved as an
image (picture), saved from an image, saved as text, saved as
any of a half dozen different ways times extras like text
fields, signatures, etc. I have to deal with PDFs all day at
work because that's what the courts use.
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few ebooks are
made those ways (though game books of old, old, out of print stuff
are often just scanned images, but even then, there's usually a
half-assed attempt to OCR it).
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Greg Goss
2018-06-25 05:12:10 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few ebooks are
made those ways (though game books of old, old, out of print stuff
are often just scanned images, but even then, there's usually a
half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly mechanically
inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual that I downloaded from
somewhere when I bought the bike.

It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off vertical,
no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible photographs.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-06-25 05:57:39 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few ebooks
are made those ways (though game books of old, old, out of print
stuff are often just scanned images, but even then, there's
usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly mechanically
inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual that I
downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal on
ebooks (which a manual isn't).
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Peter Trei
2018-06-25 13:16:56 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few ebooks
are made those ways (though game books of old, old, out of print
stuff are often just scanned images, but even then, there's
usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly mechanically
inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual that I
downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal on
ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and download, PDF manuals
for all kinds of appliances is real boon.

pt
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-25 17:01:14 UTC
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On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 1:57:42 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual
that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal
on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and download,
PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in human
history for tech support.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Peter Trei
2018-06-25 17:32:57 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual
that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal
on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and download,
PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in human
history for tech support.
Just as important: The plethora of 'how to' videos on Youtube. They've
allowed me to do a lot of little jobs for which I'd have once paid a
contractor.

pt
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-25 17:43:40 UTC
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On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 1:01:17 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 1:57:42 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's
manual that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the
bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not
normal on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and
download, PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real
boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in
human history for tech support.
Just as important: The plethora of 'how to' videos on Youtube.
They've allowed me to do a lot of little jobs for which I'd have
once paid a contractor.
Technically speaking, YouTube is part of Google, but yeah, it
deserves a special mention. (Not for me, I hate watching videos by
people who have no clue how to make videos. I find assorted support
forums far more useful. But I expect I'm the unusual one there.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-06-25 17:47:24 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual
that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal
on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and download,
PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in human
history for tech support.
https://xkcd.com/979/
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-06-25 18:08:35 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's
manual that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the
bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not
normal on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and
download, PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real
boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in
human history for tech support.
https://xkcd.com/979/
Not nearly as frustrating as finding detailed, step by step
instructions on the official support site, and halfway through,
the menu entry you're supposed to click on just isn't there.

Google is the sum of all human knowledge, and some of it is even
true!
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Greg Goss
2018-06-26 06:09:48 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I deal with them at work quite a lot, too. But very few
ebooks are made those ways (though game books of old, old,
out of print stuff are often just scanned images, but even
then, there's usually a half-assed attempt to OCR it).
I have a 1981 motorcycle, and am not particularly
mechanically inclined. Today I pulled up the owner's manual
that I downloaded from somewhere when I bought the bike.
It's all pretty basic scanning, all at fifteen degrees off
vertical, no OCR, and over-contrasted incomprehensible
photographs.
You have a point? Yeah, shitty scans exist. They're not normal
on ebooks (which a manual isn't).
Just chiming in that the ability to locate online, and download,
PDF manuals for all kinds of appliances is real boon.
No arguing with that. And Google is the greatest resource in human
history for tech support.
And, as the guy who launched this subthread, the "shitty scan" did
answer my question, though the photo would have helped more if t had
been viewable.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Scott Lurndal
2018-06-25 14:42:36 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
I was under the impression that the locked version of ePub that Kobo
uses was designed by Adobe. I would be surprised if it didn't support
Adobe's most famous protocol. But I hate, hate, hate reading PDF on
anything smaller than 13 inch screen. And there are many other
reasons to hate PDF - eg, you can cut'n'paste from a web page ore
almost anything else, but a cut'n'paste from a PDF is either truly
incomprehensible (Wednesday this week) or badly formatted enough that
it may as well be incomprehensible.
I suspect this may be a function of windows and acroread. I use
xpdf on linux and have had no problems[*] with cut'n'paste from PDF
files (aside from a few which explicitly disable the functionality
in the document itself - although these are generally encrypted
and sometimes even use the on-line adobe security server to control
access).

[*] Aside from the occasional UTF-8 sequence for bullets that breaks mickysoft
mail when pasted.
s***@yahoo.com
2018-06-27 18:22:03 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Um ... the _Runequest_ I'm talking about is an old tabletop RPG,
I haven't hear of RQ for years. Had a great time at the one con I went to, especially helping to create "trollball". I bet the UK guy on the project put up a web page about how to run it, and it could be used at other cons.

Nils K. Hammer
Robert Woodward
2018-06-21 16:43:20 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Woodward
Just how many people have been disinvited from cons over the years?
And why? IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
I don't know about *valid* reasons, but "never bathing from one
year to the next" and "walking through the halls talking crazy to
yourself in an excessively loud voice" sound like *understandable*
(even if invalid) reasons.
Was that an attendee? I am speaking of invited people (as in the con-com
specifically asked them to attend), whose names might show up on the
main page of the website.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Quadibloc
2018-06-22 14:04:27 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
While "political hate campaigns" covers a lot of ground, and I believe that
disinviting people because their books are controversial would normally be
inadvisable...

I would most emphatically *not* agree that disinviting someone because of multiple
accusations of sexual assault or sexual harassment, which appear to be credible,
have been made which have not yet resulted in criminal charges.

So I am not going to support categorizing #MeToo as a "political hate campaign".

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-06-22 14:21:58 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
So I am not going to support categorizing #MeToo as a "political hate campaign".
Just wait for #Justice4VatGirls

Kevin R
Mike Van Pelt
2018-06-22 23:46:05 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Woodward
IMHO, nothing short of criminal charges would be a valid reason.
While "political hate campaigns" covers a lot of ground, and I
believe that disinviting people because their books are
controversial would normally be inadvisable...
I would most emphatically *not* agree that disinviting someone
because of multiple accusations of sexual assault or sexual
harassment, which appear to be credible, have been made which
have not yet resulted in criminal charges.
That's reasonable.

But in the two recent cases of "inviting, then dis-inviting"
that I'm aware of, there were no such accusations, at all. Just
someone saying they'd "feel unsafe" with a ThoughtCriminal<tm>
attending, and the ConCom being Shocked! Shocked! that the
invited guest held opinions that Deviated from What It Is
Permitted To Think.

That's a little different than credible accusations of actual
sexual assault or harassment.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
MIKEN
2018-06-21 01:31:19 UTC
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James Nicoll
2018-06-21 01:46:23 UTC
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Post by MIKEN
CALL OR TEXT or watsapp
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--
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My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dimensional Traveler
2018-06-21 04:41:00 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by MIKEN
CALL OR TEXT or watsapp
I wonder if these guys also send spam faxes or telegrams.
No. Those are life insurance and various business organization scams.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
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