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Opinions: The Forever Watch by David Ramirez.
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Default User
2017-06-27 21:56:42 UTC
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I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?

Summary:
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.


Brian
Bill Gill
2017-06-28 17:50:36 UTC
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Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.

Bill
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-06-28 18:33:37 UTC
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Post by Default User
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might
work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
Post by Default User
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new
planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous
serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted
psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission
critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after
serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that
all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she
privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When
Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the
unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds
herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Post by Default User
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
It reminds me of a remark I made once on one of these forums:
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."

But the enforced breeding and separation part sounds like Jo
Walton's Thessaly stories, where a few gods decide to make some
humans *live* according to Plato's _Republic._ This does not end
well. (Full disclosure: I read only the first two volumes; maybe
things finally got better in the third.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Johnston
2017-06-28 19:21:05 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
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Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might
work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
Post by Default User
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new
planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous
serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted
psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission
critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after
serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that
all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she
privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When
Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the
unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds
herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Post by Default User
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."
But the enforced breeding and separation part sounds like Jo
Walton's Thessaly stories, where a few gods decide to make some
humans *live* according to Plato's _Republic._ This does not end
well. (Full disclosure: I read only the first two volumes; maybe
things finally got better in the third.)
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Default User
2017-06-28 21:59:31 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.


Brian
Michael F. Stemper
2017-06-28 23:48:02 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
I bet that the Universe is full of them.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.
Dimensional Traveler
2017-06-28 23:51:59 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of
tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room
for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where
they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if
there have ever been any stories like that.
I bet that the Universe is full of them.
That would be an interesting answer to the Fermi non-Paradox. They all
got lost on their way here. :)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Scott Lurndal
2017-06-29 12:58:21 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
I bet that the Universe is full of them.
Hah, full of Orphans, anyway.
Anthony Nance
2017-06-29 13:08:26 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
I bet that the Universe is full of them.
Might even be cranking them out Non-Stop....
Steve Coltrin
2017-06-29 14:20:11 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Default User
Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget
where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I
wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
I bet that the Universe is full of them.
It's only Common Sense.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Robert Bannister
2017-06-29 02:41:40 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Stands to reason that generation ships are going to be kind of tightly administered. They're artificial environments with no room for expansion, limited resources and a tight survival margin.
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
Thank you for my first laugh out loud of the morning.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Default User
2017-06-29 14:33:43 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Default User
Sure, otherwise things might collapse and the inhabitants forget where they are going or even the knowledge that it is a ship. I wonder if there have ever been any stories like that.
Thank you for my first laugh out loud of the morning.
Doing what I can.


Brian
Dimensional Traveler
2017-06-28 19:42:42 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Default User
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might
work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
Post by Default User
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new
planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous
serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted
psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission
critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after
serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that
all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she
privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When
Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the
unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds
herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Post by Default User
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."
But the enforced breeding and separation part sounds like Jo
Walton's Thessaly stories, where a few gods decide to make some
humans *live* according to Plato's _Republic._ This does not end
well. (Full disclosure: I read only the first two volumes; maybe
things finally got better in the third.)
One suspects that it would require a greater deviation from reality than
merely having the Gods come down to bully humanity in person for it to
end well. ;)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Robert Bannister
2017-06-29 02:43:08 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Default User
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might
work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
Post by Default User
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new
planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous
serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted
psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission
critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after
serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that
all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she
privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When
Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the
unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds
herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Post by Default User
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."
But the enforced breeding and separation part sounds like Jo
Walton's Thessaly stories, where a few gods decide to make some
humans *live* according to Plato's _Republic._ This does not end
well. (Full disclosure: I read only the first two volumes; maybe
things finally got better in the third.)
One suspects that it would require a greater deviation from reality than
merely having the Gods come down to bully humanity in person for it to
end well.
Only bully. As I recall, the Greek and Roman gods frequently fucked
humanity. Today, we have politicians to do the job.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Joy Beeson
2017-07-03 20:00:15 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."
The last line in the blurb appears on the back cover of every romance
novel in the grocery store.
--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
David Johnston
2017-07-08 17:13:32 UTC
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Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
"You could have a murder mystery aboard a generation ship, which
would be the equivalent of a murder mystery in a small village.
All you'd need is Lt. Cdr. Marple."
The last line in the blurb appears on the back cover of every romance
novel in the grocery store.
And it's false. Her romantic relationship with Barrens is firm from before the start of the novel.

Because we got bad blurb
Because we got bad blurb.
Robert Carnegie
2017-06-28 21:36:29 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
The telepathy, the economics, the "shouldn't there
be an /official/ investigation of one or presumably
more violent deaths by serial-killer whose activity
presumably isn't licensed"... (If s/he /is/
licensed, then the City Planner for Economics
of the generation ship is to be suspected of correcting some errors in her statistics... I can
probably find a non-SF example.)
Robert Carnegie
2017-06-30 08:20:15 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
The telepathy, the economics, the "shouldn't there
be an /official/ investigation of one or presumably
more violent deaths by serial-killer whose activity
presumably isn't licensed"... (If s/he /is/
licensed, then the City Planner for Economics
of the generation ship is to be suspected of
correcting some errors in her statistics...
I can probably find a non-SF example.)
...belatedly it occurs to me that maybe a /psychic/
economist /shouldn't/ make mistakes...

I will inform the community if further insights
come to mind...
Default User
2017-06-28 22:06:24 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Post by Default User
She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
Does seem an odd way to do things, risking mission-critical personnel in childbirth. One would think harvesting eggs and having some less critical personnel do the rest by surrogacy would make more sense. Especially as the parent won't raising the child anyway. But maybe it would be explained in the book.


Brian
Robert Carnegie
2017-06-28 23:40:23 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Post by Default User
She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
Does seem an odd way to do things, risking mission-critical personnel in childbirth. One would think harvesting eggs and having some less critical personnel do the rest by surrogacy would make more sense. Especially as the parent won't raising the child anyway. But maybe it would be explained in the book.
I've just remembered that raising your own child
isn't considered to be economic activity, but
raising someone else's is. So, if everyone has
their children
Post by Default User
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Default User
She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo
Sounds like a typical modern mystery story, just transformed into
SF. It has all the basic elements.
Does seem an odd way to do things, risking mission-critical personnel in childbirth. One would think harvesting eggs and having some less critical personnel do the rest by surrogacy would make more sense. Especially as the parent won't raising the child anyway. But maybe it would be explained in the book.
I've just remembered that raising children is
economic activity only if they aren't yours.
So, everyone raising other people's children
instead of their own is a bad idea, but it
increases the measured economic performance
of the state. So maybe that's why...
William Hyde
2017-06-29 19:50:07 UTC
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Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.

The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.

I think this could make a successful TV series.

William Hyde
Default User
2017-06-29 20:29:07 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.


Brian
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-06-29 20:40:51 UTC
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On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 2:50:12 PM UTC-5, William Hyde
On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 5:56:46 PM UTC-4, Default User
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this
might wor
k for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
Post by Default User
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to
a new pla
net aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a
dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana
Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat
and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable,
important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding
Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated
to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the
child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman
Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the
unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey
finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and
Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I
would pro
bably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.
For me, it's not the idea of forced breeding and separating
children from their biological parents at birth that breaks the
WSOD so much as that a society that does that will last a thousand
years. There are historical examples of why that doesn't work out
too well. (And some research that suggests that children raised
under those conditions - including adoptees - are at a distinction
disadvantage throughout life.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
William Hyde
2017-06-29 23:26:33 UTC
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Post by Default User
Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.
It's a raft of cliches. Which is why I suggested it would be successful on TV.

The principal character is a "gifted psychic, economist, and computer hacker who is `mission critical' and also mourning the child she will never know". Appalling. Why isn't she also a black belt in Karate? Shouldn't she be a ninth dan go player? Or be missing a limb?

When you can't create a character, write a list instead.

And ... the "Noah". Manages to be novel and cliched at the same time.


Of course, it might be an acceptable novel which works around the issues that make me feel ill. I doubt it, though.

William Hyde
Quadibloc
2017-06-30 00:25:50 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
And ... the "Noah". Manages to be novel and cliched at the same time.
Earthship Ark... Man's greatest and final achievement... was taken.

John Savard
David Johnston
2017-07-08 14:58:00 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.
It's a raft of cliches. Which is why I suggested it would be successful on TV.
The principal character is a "gifted psychic, economist, and computer hacker who is `mission critical' and also mourning the child she will never know". Appalling. Why isn't she also a black belt in Karate? Shouldn't she be a ninth dan go player? Or be missing a limb?
When you can't create a character, write a list instead.
Now now. Judging a book by the blurb is the same as judging it by the cover. That one's kind of misleading. For example her being "psychic" ain't that remarkable. Everyone is in the setting. Or rather everyone has mental superpowers gained by cyborg implants and "amplifiers". David Ramirez lives in the Phillipines and I get the impression he gets a lot of exposure to Japanese science fiction. Calling her "a hacker" is also misleading. She's not a recreational intruder of security systems. She's just good with computers because her job requires and it and since this is an unauthorized investigation of crimes that are being covered up she uses that skill.
Post by William Hyde
And ... the "Noah". Manages to be novel and cliched at the same time.
Name intended to constantly remind occupants that humanity's survival depends on them staying in line.
\
William Hyde
2017-07-08 20:57:28 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
Post by William Hyde
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.
It's a raft of cliches. Which is why I suggested it would be successful on TV.
The principal character is a "gifted psychic, economist, and computer hacker who is `mission critical' and also mourning the child she will never know". Appalling. Why isn't she also a black belt in Karate? Shouldn't she be a ninth dan go player? Or be missing a limb?
When you can't create a character, write a list instead.
Now now. Judging a book by the blurb is the same as judging it by the cover.
As I said, I hate the blurb. I'll probably, but not certainly, hate the book.

That one's kind of misleading. For example her being "psychic" ain't that remarkable. Everyone is in the setting. Or rather everyone has mental superpowers gained by cyborg implants and "amplifiers". David Ramirez lives in the Phillipines and I get the impression he gets a lot of exposure to Japanese science fiction. Calling her "a hacker" is also misleading. She's not a recreational intruder of security systems. She's just good with computers because her job requires and it and since this is an unauthorized investigation of crimes that are being covered up she uses that skill.

Well, that's positive. A little.
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
And ... the "Noah". Manages to be novel and cliched at the same time.
Name intended to constantly remind occupants that humanity's survival depends on them staying in line.
No, it's still a horrible name.

I do get some amusement from the thought of the legendary Noah spending a year packed with viruses, bacteria, fungi, worms, and other parasites so that they could spread after the flood. So by analogy, the ship's passengers are ... But I doubt that is the author's intent.

William Hyde
David Johnston
2017-07-08 21:15:34 UTC
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I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
I have not read this.
The summary, though, I hate. Really, really hate. The book I would probably hate more. Far more.
Strong reaction. Makes me curious as to what you hate about it.
It's a raft of cliches. Which is why I suggested it would be successful on TV.
The principal character is a "gifted psychic, economist, and computer hacker who is `mission critical' and also mourning the child she will never know". Appalling. Why isn't she also a black belt in Karate? Shouldn't she be a ninth dan go player? Or be missing a limb?
When you can't create a character, write a list instead.
Now now. Judging a book by the blurb is the same as judging it by the cover.
As I said, I hate the blurb. I'll probably, but not certainly, hate the book.
That one's kind of misleading. For example her being "psychic" ain't that remarkable. Everyone is in the setting. Or rather everyone has mental superpowers gained by cyborg implants and "amplifiers". David Ramirez lives in the Phillipines and I get the impression he gets a lot of exposure to Japanese science fiction. Calling her "a hacker" is also misleading. She's not a recreational intruder of security systems. She's just good with computers because her job requires and it and since this is an unauthorized investigation of crimes that are being covered up she uses that skill.
Well, that's positive. A little.
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
And ... the "Noah". Manages to be novel and cliched at the same time.
Name intended to constantly remind occupants that humanity's survival depends on them staying in line.
No, it's still a horrible name.
I do get some amusement from the thought of the legendary Noah spending a year packed with viruses, bacteria, fungi, worms, and other parasites so that they could spread after the flood. So by analogy, the ship's passengers are ... But I doubt that is the author's intent.
William Hyde
Ah. Kneejerk reaction to mythological references.
David Johnston
2017-07-08 17:44:48 UTC
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I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.

It's only the final secret in Forever Watch which truly seems like one worth going to great lengths to keep.
Robert Carnegie
2017-07-08 19:43:13 UTC
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Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.
It's only the final secret in Forever Watch which truly seems like one worth going to great lengths to keep.
Not having read it, the Doctor Who episode
"The Beast Below" comes to mind, as a core
science-fiction mystery story with a horrible
secret. ;-)

(However, surplus people aren't being fed
to other more successful people... well,
not directly.)

And a nice, and important bit where the Doctor
explains to his new fellow time-traveller that
intervening in the flow of events is forbidden,
then notices on the time capsule view-screen a
little girl crying, and as we hear his companion
replying to his argument, the Doctor appears on
the view-screen, having nipped outside to intervene.
David Johnston
2017-07-08 20:40:57 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.
It's only the final secret in Forever Watch which truly seems like one worth going to great lengths to keep.
Not having read it, the Doctor Who episode
"The Beast Below" comes to mind, as a core
science-fiction mystery story with a horrible
secret. ;-)
Now that I think about it, "The Ship Has A Horrible Secret" may be the alternate plotline for generation ship stories along with "The Ship Has Reverted To Barbarism" Although in two cases that come to mind the "horrible secret" was "this isn't really a generation ship". And in another the secret was "This IS a generation ship".
Post by Robert Carnegie
(However, surplus people aren't being fed
to other more successful people... well,
not directly.)
Soylent Green was just an example of horrible secrets the plot revolves around that honestly people would get used to given a generation or two. It wasn't one of the horrible secrets in this book which I avoid giving for spoilers
Post by Robert Carnegie
And a nice, and important bit where the Doctor
explains to his new fellow time-traveller that
intervening in the flow of events is forbidden,
then notices on the time capsule view-screen a
little girl crying, and as we hear his companion
replying to his argument, the Doctor appears on
the view-screen, having nipped outside to intervene.
William Hyde
2017-07-08 21:07:05 UTC
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Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.
Speaking of SG, Harry Harrison handled this problem in a different way in "Captive Universe" involving magic genetics and some serious cultural stereotyping. But he was pretty clear, I think, that those who planned that voyage were Not Nice People.

William Hyde
Post by David Johnston
It's only the final secret in Forever Watch which truly seems like one worth going to great lengths to keep.
David Johnston
2017-07-08 21:47:32 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
Post by David Johnston
Post by Default User
I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.
Speaking of SG, Harry Harrison handled this problem in a different way in "Captive Universe" involving magic genetics and some serious cultural stereotyping. But he was pretty clear, I think, that those who planned that voyage were Not Nice People.
Combines "Horrible Secret" with "Reverted to Barbarism"
William Hyde
2017-07-08 23:50:42 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
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I like interplanetary ship stories and SF detectives, so this might work for me. Anyone read it and have comments?
All that is left of humanity is on a thousand-year journey to a new planet aboard one ship, The Noah, which is also carrying a dangerous serial killer. As a City Planner on the Noah, Hana Dempsey is a gifted psychic, economist, hacker and bureaucrat and is considered "mission critical." She is non-replaceable, important, essential, but after serving her mandatory Breeding Duty, the impregnation and birthing that all women are obligated to undergo, her life loses purpose as she privately mourns the child she will never be permitted to know. When Policeman Leonard Barrens enlists her and her hacking skills in the unofficial investigation of his mentor's violent death, Dempsey finds herself increasingly captivated by both the case and Barrens himself.
Brian
OK I've read it now. It's not bad. The thought strikes me of course that raising their children already knowing most of those "horrible" secrets and just accepting them as a part of life would leave their society being substantially less liable to collapse because someone pulled on one of the dangling threads. In that, it reminds of my of the Dead Past. The secrets of what happens to the babies, and what causes the deaths, and what makes the ship go zoom, and what's that thing behind you! These are all things that the original crew had to know and they would have to have gone to a lot of trouble to suppress...and I'm not sure why rather than just shrugging and saying "Ehn. We'll get used to it. Also Soylent Green is made of people." They could save themselves a lot of brain reprogramming if they accepted the human capacity to accept many generations of horrific social practices when there's no real alternative.
Speaking of SG, Harry Harrison handled this problem in a different way in "Captive Universe" involving magic genetics and some serious cultural stereotyping. But he was pretty clear, I think, that those who planned that voyage were Not Nice People.
Combines "Horrible Secret" with "Reverted to Barbarism"
With a twist. "Forced to revert to barbarism". The designers, clearly, had read too many "generation ships revert to barbarism" novels and decided to anticipate the problem.

And no, "The Noah" grates not because Noah is mythological.

William Hyde

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