In article <***@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <***@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <***@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 2 May 2018 02:01:58 GMT, ***@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>In article <***@mid.individual.net>,
>>>Greg Goss <***@gossg.org> wrote:
>>>>David Johnston <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>On 2018-04-30 7:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old
>>>>literature for his tropes?
>>>>>Doesn't everyone. But can you think of an example of a Sauron-like Dark
>>>>>Lord with a horde of monster soldiers before Tolkien?
>>>>The witch's flying monkeys?
>>>The question would then arise, whether Tolkien ever *read* _The
>>>Wizard of Oz._
>>Probably. He read a lot, including American fiction.
>>He apparently took an interest in American culture, partly because he
>>discovered there were Anglo-Saxon family names surviving in Appalachia
>>that had gone extinct in England (e.g., Brinegar -- I knew several
>>Brinegars when we lived in the Kentucky hills).
>>And speaking of the Inklings, let us not forget that C.S. Lewis said
>>that he swiped some of the ideas in "The Great Divorce" from an
>>American SF pulp magazine. Not something I'd expect him to have read.
>He and Tolkien both read some SF. At one point they got together
>and said, "Okay, let's us write some SF/F," and Lewis wrote the
>Ransom trilogy and Tolkien wrote, IIRC, _Autrou and Itroun,_
>which didn't sell until after he'd died.
>But note that Lewis could write more quickly than Tolkien, who
>was always going back and revising.
>Somewhere on disk, I believe, I still have the post where
>somebody identified the SF story Lewis referenced (~"His hero
>traveled into the past, and there found grass that wounded the
>feet and apples that couldn't be bitten into, because the past
>can't be changed."~) I'll see if I can find it.
Update: Found it.
In 2002, Fred Galvin posted as follows:
>I think this may be it: Charles F. Hall, "The Man Who Lived
>Backwards", Tales of Wonder [British], Summer, 1938. I haven't seen it
>myself; I'm going by the review on p. 217 of Paul J. Nahin, Time
>Machines, Second Edition, Springer, 1999, ISBN 0-387-98571-9. Quoting
>from Nahin's book:
> The tale tells of a young physics teacher who is "twisted into a
> reversed Time Stream" by an electrical discharge. As he lives
> backward in time, he observes everybody about him appearing to
> run in reverse, but even more puzzling is that they have developed
> a "dreadful, granite-like hardness." We soon learn why:
> For a while he could not understand the inpenetrable hardness
> of external objects which he had experienced; it seemed
> they ought rather to be of intangible transience, much as a
> dream, since he was re-viewing the Past. But a moment's
> thought gave him the logical answer. The Past is definite,
> shaped, unalterable, as nothing else in Creation is. Therefore,
> to argue that he could move or alter any object here [the
> past] was to argue that he could change the whole history of
> the world or cosmos. Everything he saw about him had happened,
> and could not be changed in any way. On the other hand he was
> fluid, movable, alterable, since _his_ future still lay before
> him, even if it had been reversed; he was the intruder, the
> anomaly. In any clash between himself and the Past, the Past
> would prove irresistible every time.
> This is, I believe, a unique presentation of the unchangeability
> of the past. Why Hall's young teacher could displace the molecules
> of the Past's air, however, is left unanswered.
Dorothy J. Heydt
djheydt at gmail dot com