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Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke
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a425couple
2018-05-08 02:10:15 UTC
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Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke.
From page 81 in "Against the Fall of Night"

There is another thread ("YASID - looking for immortality")
going on. This is not an answer to that search, but
is is one different treatment from Clarke.
It seems to me connected:

A boy is born in a big, stagnant city. He yearns to travel
and explores out, and finds a suburban vibrant village.
He explores some, then wants to return home.
--------------------

"You know one of the reasons for the isolation of our two races.
The fear of Invaders, that dark shadow in the depths of every human mind
turn your people against the world and made them lose themselves
in their own dreams. Here in Lys that fear has never been so great,
although we bore the burden of the attack. We had better reason
for our actions and what we did, we did with open eyes.

"Long ago Alvin men sought immortality and at last achieved it
they forgot their the world which had banished death must also
banishe birth. The power to extend his life indefinitely
brought contentment to the individual but stagnation to the race.
You once told me that you were the only child to be born in Daspir
for 7000 years but you have seen how many children we have here in
Airlee. Ages ago we sacrificed our immortality but Daispar still
follows a false dream that is why our ways parted and why they
must never meet again."

Although the words had been more than half expected the blow
seemed none-the-less for its anticipation. Yet Alven refused to
admit the failure of all his plans - half formed though they were -
and only part of his brain was listening to Serenis now. He
understood and noted her words but the conscious portion of his mind
was retracing the road to Diaspar trying to imagine every obstacle
that could be placed in his way. Sarantis was clearly unhappy her
voice was almost pleading as it spoke and Alvin knew that she was
talking not only to him but to her own son. Theon was watching
his mother with a concern which held at least more than a trace of
accusation.

"We have no desire to keep you here in Lys against your will but
you must surely realize what it would mean if our people mixed
between our culture and yours is a gulf as great as any that ever
separated Earth from it's ancient colonies. Think of this one fact
Alvin, you and Theon are now of nearly the same age, but he and I
will have been dead for centuries when you are still a boy.
The room was very quiet.'
a425couple
2018-05-08 03:05:13 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke.
From page 81 in "Against the Fall of Night"
There is another thread ("YASID - looking for immortality")
going on.  This is not an answer to that search, but
is is one different treatment from Clarke.
A boy is born in a big, stagnant city.  He yearns to travel
and explores out, and finds a suburban vibrant village.
He explores some, then wants to return home.
--------------------
"You know one of the reasons for the isolation of our two races.
The fear of Invaders, that dark shadow in the depths of every human mind
turn your people against the world and made them lose themselves
in their own dreams.  Here in Lys that fear has never been so great,
 although we bore the burden of the attack.  We had better reason
for our actions and what we did, we did with open eyes.
"Long ago Alvin men sought immortality and at last achieved it
they forgot their the world which had banished death must also
banishe birth.  The power to extend his life indefinitely
brought contentment to the individual but stagnation to the race.
You once told me that you were the only child to be born in Daspir
for 7000 years but you have seen how many children we have here in
Airlee.  Ages ago we sacrificed our immortality but Daispar still
follows a false dream that is why our ways parted and why they
must never meet again."
Although the words had been more than half expected the blow
seemed none-the-less for its anticipation.  Yet Alven refused to
admit the failure of all his plans - half formed though they were -
and only part of his brain was listening to Serenis now.  He
understood and noted her words but the conscious portion of his mind
was retracing the road to Diaspar trying to imagine every obstacle
that could be placed in his way.  Sarantis was clearly unhappy her
voice was almost pleading as it spoke and Alvin knew that she was
talking not only to him but to her own son.  Theon was watching
his mother with a concern which held at least more than a trace of
accusation.
"We have no desire to keep you here in Lys against your will but
you must surely realize what it would mean if our people mixed
between our culture and yours is a gulf as great as any that ever
separated Earth from it's ancient colonies.  Think of this one fact
Alvin, you and Theon are now of nearly the same age, but he and I
will have been dead for centuries when you are still a boy.
The room was very quiet.'
Here is a wiki if someone wants to know more / better of the book
& passage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Fall_of_Night
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-05-08 04:04:35 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke.
From page 81 in "Against the Fall of Night"
There is another thread ("YASID - looking for immortality")
going on. This is not an answer to that search, but
is is one different treatment from Clarke.
A boy is born in a big, stagnant city. He yearns to travel
and explores out, and finds a suburban vibrant village.
He explores some, then wants to return home.
--------------------
"You know one of the reasons for the isolation of our two races.
The fear of Invaders, that dark shadow in the depths of every human mind
turn your people against the world and made them lose themselves
in their own dreams. Here in Lys that fear has never been so great,
although we bore the burden of the attack. We had better reason
for our actions and what we did, we did with open eyes.
"Long ago Alvin men sought immortality and at last achieved it
they forgot their the world which had banished death must also
banishe birth. The power to extend his life indefinitely
brought contentment to the individual but stagnation to the race.
You once told me that you were the only child to be born in Daspir
for 7000 years but you have seen how many children we have here in
Airlee. Ages ago we sacrificed our immortality but Daispar still
follows a false dream that is why our ways parted and why they
must never meet again."
Although the words had been more than half expected the blow
seemed none-the-less for its anticipation. Yet Alven refused to
admit the failure of all his plans - half formed though they were -
and only part of his brain was listening to Serenis now. He
understood and noted her words but the conscious portion of his mind
was retracing the road to Diaspar trying to imagine every obstacle
that could be placed in his way. Sarantis was clearly unhappy her
voice was almost pleading as it spoke and Alvin knew that she was
talking not only to him but to her own son. Theon was watching
his mother with a concern which held at least more than a trace of
accusation.
"We have no desire to keep you here in Lys against your will but
you must surely realize what it would mean if our people mixed
between our culture and yours is a gulf as great as any that ever
separated Earth from it's ancient colonies. Think of this one fact
Alvin, you and Theon are now of nearly the same age, but he and I
will have been dead for centuries when you are still a boy.
The room was very quiet.'
Or Theon could say, "No mom, you and some guys thousands of years ago
don't get to choose mortality for me".
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
a425couple
2018-05-10 03:01:48 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke.
From page 81 in "Against the Fall of Night"
(and also presumably similar treatment in
"The City and the Stars".)
Post by a425couple
"Long ago Alvin men sought immortality and at last achieved it
they forgot their the world which had banished death must also
banish birth.  The power to extend his life indefinitely
brought contentment to the individual but stagnation to the race.
You once told me that you were the only child to be born in Daspir
for 7000 years but you have seen how many children we have here in
Airlee.  Ages ago we sacrificed our immortality but Daispar still
follows a false dream that is why our ways parted and why they
must never meet again."
There is certainly some validness to those thoughts,
and especially so, in a closed system.

But then, it turns out, the two 'races' could work
and move together into the future.

----------------------------------

And, in a quite different way, Heinlein touches
on a path towards immortality (or life well over
3,000 years long) in his "Time Enough For Love"
and he totally avoids the idea of you need a death,
to make room for a new life, by expanding out into
the stars and finding new planets to colonize and
develop. And Lazarus Long keeps himself vital and
interested and energized by every 20 years or so,
totally changing his jobs and role.

But even so, after over 3,000 years, he has gotten
tired of it all and very bored. He yearns to die, and is well
along that path, when a great leader decides it is very
important for himself, to keep Lazarus around and
alive. So a bargain is struck, that they must keep
Lazarus interested and discovering new things.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-05-10 04:00:45 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Post by a425couple
Immortality - one view from Arthur C. Clarke.
From page 81 in "Against the Fall of Night"
(and also presumably similar treatment in
"The City and the Stars".)
Post by a425couple
"Long ago Alvin men sought immortality and at last achieved it
they forgot their the world which had banished death must also
banish birth.  The power to extend his life indefinitely
brought contentment to the individual but stagnation to the race.
You once told me that you were the only child to be born in Daspir
for 7000 years but you have seen how many children we have here in
Airlee.  Ages ago we sacrificed our immortality but Daispar still
follows a false dream that is why our ways parted and why they
must never meet again."
There is certainly some validness to those thoughts,
and especially so, in a closed system.
But then, it turns out, the two 'races' could work
and move together into the future.
----------------------------------
And, in a quite different way, Heinlein touches
on a path towards immortality (or life well over
3,000 years long) in his "Time Enough For Love"
and he totally avoids the idea of you need a death,
to make room for a new life, by expanding out into
the stars and finding new planets to colonize and
develop. And Lazarus Long keeps himself vital and
interested and energized by every 20 years or so,
totally changing his jobs and role.
But even so, after over 3,000 years, he has gotten
tired of it all and very bored. He yearns to die, and is well
along that path, when a great leader decides it is very
important for himself, to keep Lazarus around and
alive. So a bargain is struck, that they must keep
Lazarus interested and discovering new things.
Tolkien says somewhere (probably in "On Fairy-Stories") that
while the legends of Men are about the Escape from Death, the
legends of Elves are about the Escape from Deathlessness.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2018-05-10 08:08:46 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Tolkien says somewhere (probably in "On Fairy-Stories") that
while the legends of Men are about the Escape from Death, the
legends of Elves are about the Escape from Deathlessness.
In the sixties, many people became interested in Eastern religions and
reincarnation, usually looking forward to their next life, while in the
East, the goal is to break out of reincarnation.
Robert Carnegie
2018-05-10 12:24:16 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Tolkien says somewhere (probably in "On Fairy-Stories") that
while the legends of Men are about the Escape from Death, the
legends of Elves are about the Escape from Deathlessness.
In the sixties, many people became interested in Eastern religions and
reincarnation, usually looking forward to their next life, while in the
East, the goal is to break out of reincarnation.
Rather like promotion when you win the Football League.
Except not so much a team game.

Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2018-05-10 08:07:45 UTC
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Post by a425couple
And, in a quite different way, Heinlein touches
on a path towards immortality (or life well over
3,000 years long) in his "Time Enough For Love"
and he totally avoids the idea of you need a death,
to make room for a new life, by expanding out into
the stars and finding new planets to colonize and
develop.
This works only for a finite time, until all available planets are
colonized. Asimov pointed this out in an essay, "The Power of
Progression".
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