Discussion:
[Because My Tears Are Delicious To You] Rocket to the Morgue by Anthony Boucher
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James Nicoll
2017-05-07 13:30:10 UTC
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Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher

http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
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My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
David Johnston
2017-05-07 14:18:43 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
H.H. Holmes? Somehow I doubt we'll ever see a crime writer using
Jeffrey Dahmer as a pseudonym. Somewhere in my computer there's a
Cthulhu module that looks intended for conventions where you play famous
science fiction writers of the forties who investigate the horrible
secrets of a Mythos cultist based on L. Ron Hubbard.
Don Kuenz
2017-05-07 16:42:28 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.

"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.

These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.

http://www.tripoli.org/Balls

John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.



Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
J. Clarke
2017-05-07 19:28:55 UTC
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Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
had purchased their Mojave test site in 1955.

NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.

So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Don Kuenz
2017-05-07 19:56:09 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
had purchased their Mojave test site in 1955.
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.



Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
J. Clarke
2017-05-07 20:13:59 UTC
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Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
had purchased their Mojave test site in 1955.
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.
http://youtu.be/Xg0FfxHPGXs
Thank you. But my point was that comparing an NAR altitude from 1960 with
a Tripoli altitude from 2016 is like comparing a Soapbox Derby speed from
1960 with an Indy 500 speed from 2016. The two just aren't relevant to
each other.

And yes, I know that NAR is a bit different from Soapbox Derby and Tripoli
is a bit different from the Indy 500 but I was looking for somethign that
people who don't really give a crap about cars or rockets could still
relate to.

And now somebody is going to ignore that paragraph and start a spirited
defense of NAR or Tripoli or the Soapbox Derby or the Indy 500 or cats or
moths or something else totally irrelevant to the topic anyway.
Don Kuenz
2017-05-07 21:11:49 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.
http://youtu.be/Xg0FfxHPGXs
Thank you. But my point was that comparing an NAR altitude from 1960 with
a Tripoli altitude from 2016 is like comparing a Soapbox Derby speed from
1960 with an Indy 500 speed from 2016. The two just aren't relevant to
each other.
And yes, I know that NAR is a bit different from Soapbox Derby and Tripoli
is a bit different from the Indy 500 but I was looking for somethign that
people who don't really give a crap about cars or rockets could still
relate to.
And now somebody is going to ignore that paragraph and start a spirited
defense of NAR or Tripoli or the Soapbox Derby or the Indy 500 or cats or
moths or something else totally irrelevant to the topic anyway.
NAR's primary mission seems to be outreach. NAR also accommodates the
passionate few. NAR's High Power Rocketry is closely associated with
Tripoli.

Cross Certification

NAR members who are currently Tripoli Rocketry Association HPR
certified may cross-certify with NAR at the same level by
completing the identification portion of a NAR high power
application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification
(e.g., photocopy of Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to
NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level
be updated.

http://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
J. Clarke
2017-05-07 22:46:59 UTC
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Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.
http://youtu.be/Xg0FfxHPGXs
Thank you. But my point was that comparing an NAR altitude from 1960 with
a Tripoli altitude from 2016 is like comparing a Soapbox Derby speed from
1960 with an Indy 500 speed from 2016. The two just aren't relevant to
each other.
And yes, I know that NAR is a bit different from Soapbox Derby and Tripoli
is a bit different from the Indy 500 but I was looking for somethign that
people who don't really give a crap about cars or rockets could still
relate to.
And now somebody is going to ignore that paragraph and start a spirited
defense of NAR or Tripoli or the Soapbox Derby or the Indy 500 or cats or
moths or something else totally irrelevant to the topic anyway.
NAR's primary mission seems to be outreach. NAR also accommodates the
passionate few. NAR's High Power Rocketry is closely associated with
Tripoli.
Cross Certification
NAR members who are currently Tripoli Rocketry Association HPR
certified may cross-certify with NAR at the same level by
completing the identification portion of a NAR high power
application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification
(e.g., photocopy of Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to
NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level
be updated.
http://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/
Thank you,
You're not going to "get it" by surfing web sites. If you were in NAR when
it was getting started you'd understand--NAR referred to the people who
made their own engines as "Basement Bombers", it was discouraged activity.
The big Tripoli records are in the "Research" class, where you are
_required_ to make your own engine. Rockets in that class are not allowed
in NAR competition.

"High Powered" is a level that uses prepackaged engines in classes H
through O. You have to have a certification in order to buy those engines
and to participate in competitions using them. All that the "Cross
certification" does is avoid making someone who participates at the High
Power level duplicate effort in order to have the two separate pieces of
paper.

"Research" is class P and above where you can't buy packaged engines
anymore.

Just for reference I was the President of an NAR affiliated model rocket
club in the late '60s. One of my best friends was a "basement bomber" who
fortunately did not come to grief. It's a friendly rivalry kind of thing.
Tripoli is what the "basement bombers" grew into. NAR remains pretty much
what it was only with more thrust.

The two are different and have different cultures and trying to prove that
they are the same by snipping quotes from web sites without understanding
the significance of those quotes is just wasting everybody's time.
Don Kuenz
2017-05-08 04:37:45 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.
http://youtu.be/Xg0FfxHPGXs
Thank you. But my point was that comparing an NAR altitude from 1960 with
a Tripoli altitude from 2016 is like comparing a Soapbox Derby speed from
1960 with an Indy 500 speed from 2016. The two just aren't relevant to
each other.
And yes, I know that NAR is a bit different from Soapbox Derby and Tripoli
is a bit different from the Indy 500 but I was looking for somethign that
people who don't really give a crap about cars or rockets could still
relate to.
And now somebody is going to ignore that paragraph and start a spirited
defense of NAR or Tripoli or the Soapbox Derby or the Indy 500 or cats or
moths or something else totally irrelevant to the topic anyway.
NAR's primary mission seems to be outreach. NAR also accommodates the
passionate few. NAR's High Power Rocketry is closely associated with
Tripoli.
Cross Certification
NAR members who are currently Tripoli Rocketry Association HPR
certified may cross-certify with NAR at the same level by
completing the identification portion of a NAR high power
application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification
(e.g., photocopy of Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to
NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level
be updated.
http://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/
Thank you,
You're not going to "get it" by surfing web sites. If you were in NAR when
it was getting started you'd understand--NAR referred to the people who
made their own engines as "Basement Bombers", it was discouraged activity.
The big Tripoli records are in the "Research" class, where you are
_required_ to make your own engine. Rockets in that class are not allowed
in NAR competition.
"High Powered" is a level that uses prepackaged engines in classes H
through O. You have to have a certification in order to buy those engines
and to participate in competitions using them. All that the "Cross
certification" does is avoid making someone who participates at the High
Power level duplicate effort in order to have the two separate pieces of
paper.
"Research" is class P and above where you can't buy packaged engines
anymore.
Just for reference I was the President of an NAR affiliated model rocket
club in the late '60s. One of my best friends was a "basement bomber" who
fortunately did not come to grief. It's a friendly rivalry kind of thing.
Tripoli is what the "basement bombers" grew into. NAR remains pretty much
what it was only with more thrust.
The two are different and have different cultures and trying to prove that
they are the same by snipping quotes from web sites without understanding
the significance of those quotes is just wasting everybody's time.
That's quite informative and impressive. IOW, not a waste of *my* time.
YMMV.

In the end, amateur rockets attain higher altitudes these days than they
did in 1960. The basement-bombers went from 31,000 feet in 1960 to 72
miles in 2004. The NARers went from 743 feet in 1960 to 2641m in 2008.*

* NAR's record page seems unordered to me. You're the NAR expert so let
me know if you spot anything higher than 2641m in 2008.
http://www.nar.org/contest-flying/records/

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
J. Clarke
2017-05-09 00:51:23 UTC
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Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Don Kuenz
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
Modern readers may find the casual attitude towards amateur
rocketry that is displayed in this novel difficult to credit,
but in fact it was not so long ago that building and testing
rockets of extremely dubious safety was socially acceptable.
"Report on the Electric Field Rocket" appears in the Oct 1961 edition of
_analog_. It talks about a National Association of Rocketry event that
took place at Colorado Springs on Oct 29 1960. At that event, the
highest rocket achieved an altitude of 743'.
These days amateurs annually gather at the Black Rock Desert in northern
Nevada. It's sparsely populated and therefore safer for rockets. This
year's event takes place on Sep 22-24.
http://www.tripoli.org/Balls
John Carmack of "Doom" fame is a rocket enthusiast who offers prize
money. A few years ago a rocket named "Qu8k" made a Carmack Prize
attempt. "Qu8k" reached an altitude of 121 000'.
http://youtu.be/7YBJnJ39baQ
FWIW, amateurs in 1960 were also achieving high altitudes. Homer Hickam
hit 31,000 on his best amateur attempt and won a medal at the 1960 National
Science Fair for it. That was working with two friends and a high school
science teacher in a coal town in Tennessee. The Reaction Research Society
had already been in operation for some time at that point in California and
NAR does a different kind of rocketry. "Amateur rocketry" had a reputation
for killing the rocketeers and tended to be frowned on by authorities after
the particular authorities have cleaned up an incident. NAR in their
competitions requires the use of packaged commercially-produced rocket
engines, not engines made by the competitors, thus removing the major
source of danger. This means that in NAR competition the altitudes
achieved are much lower than for amateur competition, and probably always
will be--commercial production of rocket engines for sale to consumers is
regulated in ways that do not apply to engines built by hobbyists.
So don't see Tripoli altitudes vs NAR altitudes as an indicator of
progress--they are working to different rules.
Homer Hickam's rocket achieved 31,000 feet in 1960. The "GoFast" rocket
was launched from Black Rock and acheived 72 miles in 2004.
http://youtu.be/Xg0FfxHPGXs
Thank you. But my point was that comparing an NAR altitude from 1960 with
a Tripoli altitude from 2016 is like comparing a Soapbox Derby speed from
1960 with an Indy 500 speed from 2016. The two just aren't relevant to
each other.
And yes, I know that NAR is a bit different from Soapbox Derby and Tripoli
is a bit different from the Indy 500 but I was looking for somethign that
people who don't really give a crap about cars or rockets could still
relate to.
And now somebody is going to ignore that paragraph and start a spirited
defense of NAR or Tripoli or the Soapbox Derby or the Indy 500 or cats or
moths or something else totally irrelevant to the topic anyway.
NAR's primary mission seems to be outreach. NAR also accommodates the
passionate few. NAR's High Power Rocketry is closely associated with
Tripoli.
Cross Certification
NAR members who are currently Tripoli Rocketry Association HPR
certified may cross-certify with NAR at the same level by
completing the identification portion of a NAR high power
application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification
(e.g., photocopy of Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to
NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level
be updated.
http://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/
Thank you,
You're not going to "get it" by surfing web sites. If you were in NAR when
it was getting started you'd understand--NAR referred to the people who
made their own engines as "Basement Bombers", it was discouraged activity.
The big Tripoli records are in the "Research" class, where you are
_required_ to make your own engine. Rockets in that class are not allowed
in NAR competition.
"High Powered" is a level that uses prepackaged engines in classes H
through O. You have to have a certification in order to buy those engines
and to participate in competitions using them. All that the "Cross
certification" does is avoid making someone who participates at the High
Power level duplicate effort in order to have the two separate pieces of
paper.
"Research" is class P and above where you can't buy packaged engines
anymore.
Just for reference I was the President of an NAR affiliated model rocket
club in the late '60s. One of my best friends was a "basement bomber" who
fortunately did not come to grief. It's a friendly rivalry kind of thing.
Tripoli is what the "basement bombers" grew into. NAR remains pretty much
what it was only with more thrust.
The two are different and have different cultures and trying to prove that
they are the same by snipping quotes from web sites without understanding
the significance of those quotes is just wasting everybody's time.
That's quite informative and impressive. IOW, not a waste of *my* time.
YMMV.
In the end, amateur rockets attain higher altitudes these days than they
did in 1960. The basement-bombers went from 31,000 feet in 1960 to 72
miles in 2004. The NARers went from 743 feet in 1960 to 2641m in 2008.*
I can't find any statistics, but bear in mind that Hickam was working more
or less in isolation--there was organized effort on the West Coast that
likely was getting more altitude.
Post by Don Kuenz
* NAR's record page seems unordered to me. You're the NAR expert so let
me know if you spot anything higher than 2641m in 2008.
http://www.nar.org/contest-flying/records/
That page doesn't include high power--note the largest engine
classification is G. Neither Tripoli nor NAR seem to be very forthcoming
with current statistics.

The NEFAR (NEFAR is an NAR and Tripoli affiliated club--they were the
"big" club in my area when I was involved in rocketry--Lamar Dean the
billboard king was one of their backers IIRC so they had deep pockets) page
lists 10,000 meters with a class K engine.
Robert Woodward
2017-05-07 19:40:23 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
According to my paperback copy, _Rocket to the Morgue_ was published in
1942.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2017-05-08 15:00:32 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
According to my paperback copy, _Rocket to the Morgue_ was published in
1942.
My copy was definitely published later, because it's credited to Boucher,
not Holmes, and has that 1951 intro.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Woodward
2017-05-09 04:51:00 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Rocket to the Morgue (Sister Ursula Mysteries, book 2) by Anthony Boucher
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/underneath-the-skull-of-the-moon
According to my paperback copy, _Rocket to the Morgue_ was published in
1942.
My copy was definitely published later, because it's credited to Boucher,
not Holmes, and has that 1951 intro.
My copy is credited to Boucher as well (and has a 1951 afterword). The
publisher was Pyramid, printed in 1975 (from the price, it could not had
been much later).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
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