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[tor dot com] Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
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James Nicoll
2018-09-04 16:46:18 UTC
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Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?

https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
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Quadibloc
2018-09-04 17:00:45 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
A few of those authors are indeed authors I'd never heard of.

Many of those, though, impressed me as being so famous that my reaction was -
what do you mean they've been forgotten? They may be *out of print*, since the
supply of used works of theirs has depressed the market for expensive new ones,
but that's a different matter.

John Savard
David DeLaney
2018-09-14 16:49:39 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
< https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science
-fiction/ >

I missed having memories of the two James didn't recall, plus two more (Quinn
& Robinson; however, checking gutenberg from home reveals to me I have several
Robsinson stories in my e-book cache, though not so the other three.
Post by Quadibloc
A few of those authors are indeed authors I'd never heard of.
Many of those, though, impressed me as being so famous that my reaction was -
much the same here.

Dave, someday I may be able to forget Galouye though

ps: amusing that Chalker turned up in comment #1, for a reason I had not
previously thought of
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-04 20:20:29 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
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(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.

I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.


is something I've recently seen on the subject.
An incident of terrible miscalculation in
_The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ also
comes to... be mentioned in this video's comments.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-04 21:03:55 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
Post by James Nicoll
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(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.
http://youtu.be/uTyeLJtOprE
is something I've recently seen on the subject.
I looked at that, and couldn't connect it with any Maclean story.

*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
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Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

'Gentlemen, the CAT!"
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Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-06 09:12:32 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
Post by James Nicoll
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My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
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(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.
http://youtu.be/uTyeLJtOprE
is something I've recently seen on the subject.
I looked at that, and couldn't connect it with any Maclean story.
The "forgotten great" I had in mind is
"Pictures Don't Lie". But there are differences.
It may be coincidental.

"Pictures" has a time element, which Star Trek used once.
And there's a Deep Space Nine episode, "Bar Yvggyr Fuvc"
(ROT13 unfortunately makes rude-looking words today,
or pethaps that's me). Different outcome.

"Pictures" was an "X Minus One", and ISFDB apparently notes
a Project Gutenberg e-text as a "chap-book".
Perhaps in this context it means pictures are included,
which they are. The translated titles I can puzzle out
mostly mean "Pictures Don't Lie", but in French it's
"Voir, C'est Croire", which seems rather jolly
(seeing is believing).

Unfortunately, Google results indicate it's half of
a prominent remark by the Marquis de Sade, and in
/that/ context - which I'm not pursuing - probably
not jolly at all.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
I may have missed that; it doesn't seem to be
over-anthologised - it's not at Gutenberg, and
perhaps shouldn't be, I haven't done the calculation.
And, since she's still alive, it is copyrighted
in the United Kingdom. But I probably can obtain
one of the collections.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
'Gentlemen, the CAT!"
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-06 12:52:24 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
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(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.
http://youtu.be/uTyeLJtOprE
is something I've recently seen on the subject.
I looked at that, and couldn't connect it with any Maclean story.
The "forgotten great" I had in mind is
"Pictures Don't Lie". But there are differences.
It may be coincidental.
"Pictures" has a time element, which Star Trek used once.
And there's a Deep Space Nine episode, "Bar Yvggyr Fuvc"
(ROT13 unfortunately makes rude-looking words today,
or pethaps that's me). Different outcome.
"Pictures" was an "X Minus One", and ISFDB apparently notes
a Project Gutenberg e-text as a "chap-book".
Perhaps in this context it means pictures are included,
which they are. The translated titles I can puzzle out
mostly mean "Pictures Don't Lie", but in French it's
"Voir, C'est Croire", which seems rather jolly
(seeing is believing).
Unfortunately, Google results indicate it's half of
a prominent remark by the Marquis de Sade, and in
/that/ context - which I'm not pursuing - probably
not jolly at all.
Post by James Nicoll
*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
I may have missed that; it doesn't seem to be
over-anthologised - it's not at Gutenberg, and
perhaps shouldn't be, I haven't done the calculation.
And, since she's still alive, it is copyrighted
in the United Kingdom. But I probably can obtain
one of the collections.
Hm. I have it in a collection entitled _The Trouble With You
Earth People._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-09-06 13:25:29 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
I may have missed that; it doesn't seem to be
over-anthologised - it's not at Gutenberg, and
perhaps shouldn't be, I haven't done the calculation.
And, since she's still alive, it is copyrighted
in the United Kingdom. But I probably can obtain
one of the collections.
Hm. I have it in a collection entitled _The Trouble With You
Earth People._
You also have the title slightly wrong; there's no "The." It's just
"Trouble with Treaties." I don't know whether that might have
affected the search.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-06 20:24:26 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.
http://youtu.be/uTyeLJtOprE
is something I've recently seen on the subject.
I looked at that, and couldn't connect it with any Maclean story.
The "forgotten great" I had in mind is
"Pictures Don't Lie". But there are differences.
It may be coincidental.
"Pictures" has a time element, which Star Trek used once.
And there's a Deep Space Nine episode, "Bar Yvggyr Fuvc"
(ROT13 unfortunately makes rude-looking words today,
or pethaps that's me). Different outcome.
"Pictures" was an "X Minus One", and ISFDB apparently notes
a Project Gutenberg e-text as a "chap-book".
Perhaps in this context it means pictures are included,
which they are. The translated titles I can puzzle out
mostly mean "Pictures Don't Lie", but in French it's
"Voir, C'est Croire", which seems rather jolly
(seeing is believing).
Unfortunately, Google results indicate it's half of
a prominent remark by the Marquis de Sade, and in
/that/ context - which I'm not pursuing - probably
not jolly at all.
Post by James Nicoll
*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
I may have missed that; it doesn't seem to be
over-anthologised - it's not at Gutenberg, and
perhaps shouldn't be, I haven't done the calculation.
And, since she's still alive, it is copyrighted
in the United Kingdom. But I probably can obtain
one of the collections.
Hm. I have it in a collection entitled _The Trouble With You
Earth People._
That's offered to me economically as an Amazon download.
I'll put it on "Wish List" for now and reasons.

Someone's review glimpsed in Google: "Another of the less
successful tales is 'The Trouble with Treaties' which,
perhaps due to being co-written [with Tom Condit, 1959],
feels less like MacLean and aims at ..." Hmm.
But I'm wary of casual browsing for editorial perspective
as well as for computer security.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-06 21:54:18 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
I don't know how you forget one particular story by
Katherine Maclean.
http://youtu.be/uTyeLJtOprE
is something I've recently seen on the subject.
I looked at that, and couldn't connect it with any Maclean story.
The "forgotten great" I had in mind is
"Pictures Don't Lie". But there are differences.
It may be coincidental.
"Pictures" has a time element, which Star Trek used once.
And there's a Deep Space Nine episode, "Bar Yvggyr Fuvc"
(ROT13 unfortunately makes rude-looking words today,
or pethaps that's me). Different outcome.
"Pictures" was an "X Minus One", and ISFDB apparently notes
a Project Gutenberg e-text as a "chap-book".
Perhaps in this context it means pictures are included,
which they are. The translated titles I can puzzle out
mostly mean "Pictures Don't Lie", but in French it's
"Voir, C'est Croire", which seems rather jolly
(seeing is believing).
Unfortunately, Google results indicate it's half of
a prominent remark by the Marquis de Sade, and in
/that/ context - which I'm not pursuing - probably
not jolly at all.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*My* favorite Maclean story of all time is "The Trouble With
Treaties."
I may have missed that; it doesn't seem to be
over-anthologised - it's not at Gutenberg, and
perhaps shouldn't be, I haven't done the calculation.
And, since she's still alive, it is copyrighted
in the United Kingdom. But I probably can obtain
one of the collections.
Hm. I have it in a collection entitled _The Trouble With You
Earth People._
That's offered to me economically as an Amazon download.
I'll put it on "Wish List" for now and reasons.
Someone's review glimpsed in Google: "Another of the less
successful tales is 'The Trouble with Treaties' which,
perhaps due to being co-written [with Tom Condit, 1959],
feels less like MacLean and aims at ..." Hmm.
But I'm wary of casual browsing for editorial perspective
as well as for computer security.
Well, I like it.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jack Bohn
2018-09-05 01:03:01 UTC
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(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently 
promised on the page?

I'm in a low signal area, now, and it took a moment for the 33 comments to arrive and push down the HTML elements that were below them but appeared first. Patience, or try a hard refresh, which clears the cache (or what xkcd calls a harder refresh which cycles the server's power supply).

What determines if an author is eligible in a year? I don't know who's forgotten; I mean *I* still have my Frederic Brown, Lloyd Biggle, Jr., and Cyril M. Kornbluth.
--
-Jack
James Nicoll
2018-09-05 19:35:27 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently 
promised on the page?
I have this issue on my BB phone.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I'm in a low signal area, now, and it took a moment for the 33 comments
to arrive and push down the HTML elements that were below them but
appeared first. Patience, or try a hard refresh, which clears the cache
(or what xkcd calls a harder refresh which cycles the server's power
supply).
What determines if an author is eligible in a year? I don't know who's
forgotten; I mean *I* still have my Frederic Brown, Lloyd Biggle, Jr.,
and Cyril M. Kornbluth.
That, I don't know.
--
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Robert Woodward
2018-09-05 05:10:40 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-ficti
on/
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My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
In my case, Safari didn't show the 41 comments, but Firefox did.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
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—-----------------------------------------------------
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Robert Carnegie
2018-09-05 18:57:32 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-ficti
on/
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My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
(1) Is anyone else not seeing the 27 comments currently
promised on the page? And (2) It's _Simulacron-3_ as
I understand.
In my case, Safari didn't show the 41 comments, but Firefox did.
Thank you. I got into the comments with Firefox,
but not with Opera - Chromium-based.
a425couple
2018-09-05 17:22:25 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
I noticed that you put Robert Silverberg on your list.
I've been reading a fair number of his lately, and
commenting on them here. (I'm currently reading his
"Stepsons of Terra").

They are generally fairly simple 1950s stories.

I can understand that most readers are not interested in him.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-05 17:33:58 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
I noticed that you put Robert Silverberg on your list.
I've been reading a fair number of his lately, and
commenting on them here. (I'm currently reading his
"Stepsons of Terra").
They are generally fairly simple 1950s stories.
I can understand that most readers are not interested in him.
At some point he was turned into a newt and then..
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Ahasuerus
2018-09-05 18:45:17 UTC
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On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 1:34:02 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science-fiction/
I noticed that you put Robert Silverberg on your list.
I've been reading a fair number of his lately, and
commenting on them here. (I'm currently reading his
"Stepsons of Terra").
They are generally fairly simple 1950s stories.
I can understand that most readers are not interested in him.
The article didn't list Silverberg as a "forgotten great". He was
listed as one of the founding judges of the Cordwainer Smith
Rediscovery Award.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
At some point he was turned into a newt and then..
Later on he said that he would occasionally try to push genre
boundaries even back in the late 1950s. For whatever reason -- his
in-genre reputation, his lack of skill, the decline of magazine SF in
the late 1950s, etc -- it didn't pan out and he moved to other,
healthier and more lucrative pastures.

Technically speaking, he never quite "left SF". However, his output,
although respectable by most writers' standards, was, compared to his
insane productivity in the 1950s, very modest for a number of years.

When he made his triumphant comeback ca.1967, it was as a very
different writer. Compare and contrast his awards and nominations in
the 1950s and in 1968-1976: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/eaw.cgi?54
David DeLaney
2018-09-14 16:55:37 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Who Are the Forgotten Greats of Science Fiction?
https://www.tor.com/2018/09/04/who-are-the-forgotten-greats-of-science
-fiction/

I'm gonna nominate Michael Shea, who wrote a successor novel to Jack Vance's
at-the-time-I-think-two Cugel novels, and at lesst one other in the same
setting, with some other epic fantasy as well.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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