Discussion:
Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
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James Nicoll
2018-01-22 15:28:14 UTC
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Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F

https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
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Ahasuerus
2018-01-22 17:53:36 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/

Substantive claims aside, now may be a good time to mention that the
ISFDB maintains "Authors By Debut Year" lists --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/authors_by_debut_year.cgi
James Nicoll
2018-01-22 17:56:23 UTC
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In article <b07758b3-6cd5-47eb-b722-***@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>
>Substantive claims aside, now may be a good time to mention that the
>ISFDB maintains "Authors By Debut Year" lists --
>http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/authors_by_debut_year.cgi

On my way add that to comments.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2018-01-22 20:36:56 UTC
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I haven't read the review yet, but the title came to me as the chronicle of
comic book characters defending themselves from an error-correcting artist.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-22 22:24:25 UTC
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In article <***@panix1.panix.com>,
Carl Fink <***@finknetwork.com> wrote:
>I haven't read the review yet, but the title came to me as the chronicle of
>comic book characters defending themselves from an error-correcting artist.

Rather like Daffy evading Bugs's paintbrush in _Duck Amuck._

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Robert Woodward
2018-01-22 17:59:21 UTC
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In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> a-through-f/

I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
there are also several books about her or her writing).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 17:06:29 UTC
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Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote in
news:robertaw-***@news.individual.net:

> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>
>> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers
>> -of-the-1970s- a-through-f/
>
> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh,
> after all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia
> Butler (MacArthur Award winner after all) is pretty high
> profile; I just checked Apple's iBooks store and I think they
> are pretty complete on her books (and there are also several
> books about her or her writing).
>
It'd be interesting to compare the percentage of women authors from
the 70s who have been forgotten to the percentage of men authors who
have been.

(But I'm not holding my breath.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-22 18:08:23 UTC
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In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>
>> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
>> a-through-f/
>
>I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>there are also several books about her or her writing).
>

It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ahasuerus
2018-01-22 18:32:31 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >>
> >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> >> a-through-f/
> >
> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
>
> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?

Well, yes. As Ozymandias once said, "Look on my Works, ye Mighty,
and despair!"

In the case of SF, the ISFDB has quite a bit of data to work with:
author bibliographies, lists of "most-viewed authors/titles", lists of
authors/titles ranked by awards and nominations, lists of most-reviewed
titles. And if that's not enough, our backups are publicly available.
Anyone can download them and run arbitrary queries. I am sure it's
possible to come up with various sets of metrics to compile lists of
"once prominent but now mostly forgotten" SF authors of yesteryear.
William Hyde
2018-01-22 21:39:39 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >>
> >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> >> a-through-f/
> >
> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
> >
>
> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?

We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.

Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine" which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not understand it.

The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers" changed my mind.

Manbreaker Crag
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 21:38:57 UTC
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William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote in
news:60c032a9-dd9d-44b1-af75-***@googlegroups.com:

> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they
> don't read short stories any more.

Heh. I know I'm a freak, but not *everybody* says that.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ahasuerus
2018-01-22 22:42:41 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 4:39:45 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
[snip]
> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they
> don't read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900
> Grandmothers" changed my mind. [snip]

No fair picking what is quite possibly the best single-author
collection ever!
D B Davis
2018-01-23 00:04:55 UTC
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William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>> >>
>> >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>> >
>> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
>> >
>>
>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>
> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>
> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
> understand it.
>
> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
> changed my mind.
>
> Manbreaker Crag
>

Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
"everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"
is a more accurate statement.
"Brevity is the soul of wit." It irritates me when authors add
superfluous words to a perfectly good short story. It also irritates me
when editors leave all of those superfluous words in a story.
Stories that blather on ad nauseam bore me and before you know it
the bloated story conjures up the eight deadly words. So just gather
your wits and tell me the story, the whole story, and nothing but the
story.

Thank you,

--
Don

When the power of love replaces the love of power there will be peace.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-23 02:08:06 UTC
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In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>> >>
>>> >>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>> >
>>> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>>> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>> >
>>>
>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>
>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>
>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
>> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
>> understand it.
>>
>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>> changed my mind.
>>
>> Manbreaker Crag
>>
>
>Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
>"everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"
>is a more accurate statement.
> "Brevity is the soul of wit." It irritates me when authors add
>superfluous words to a perfectly good short story. It also irritates me
>when editors leave all of those superfluous words in a story.
> Stories that blather on ad nauseam bore me and before you know it
>the bloated story conjures up the eight deadly words. So just gather
>your wits and tell me the story, the whole story, and nothing but the
>story.

Of course, there are not as many venues for short stories as
there used to be. I haven't sold one since Marion Zimmer Bradley
died: God rest her, she was my reliable market.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
William Hyde
2018-01-23 04:18:08 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:30:05 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> >William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> >>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >>> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> >>> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
> >>> >
> >>> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> >>> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> >>> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> >>> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> >>> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> >>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
> >>
> >> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
> >> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
> >>
> >> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
> >> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
> >> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
> >> understand it.
> >>
> >> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
> >> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
> >> changed my mind.
> >>
> >> Manbreaker Crag
> >>
> >
> >Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
> >"everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"
> >is a more accurate statement.
> > "Brevity is the soul of wit." It irritates me when authors add
> >superfluous words to a perfectly good short story. It also irritates me
> >when editors leave all of those superfluous words in a story.
> > Stories that blather on ad nauseam bore me and before you know it
> >the bloated story conjures up the eight deadly words. So just gather
> >your wits and tell me the story, the whole story, and nothing but the
> >story.
>
> Of course, there are not as many venues for short stories as
> there used to be. I haven't sold one since Marion Zimmer Bradley
> died: God rest her, she was my reliable market.

A pair of anthologies of Avram Davidson's work came out a few years after his death. Reading them, I could not believe that I'd somehow forgotten about this remarkable writer. I still feel guilty about it.

William Hyde
William Hyde
2018-01-23 04:14:59 UTC
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On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 7:04:59 PM UTC-5, D B Davis wrote:
> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> >> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >> >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> >> > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
> >> >
> >> >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> >> >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> >> >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> >> >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> >> >there are also several books about her or her writing).
> >> >
> >>
> >> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> >> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
> >
> > We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
> > remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
> >
> > Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
> > the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
> > which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
> > understand it.
> >
> > The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
> > read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
> > changed my mind.
> >
> > Manbreaker Crag
> >
>
> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
> "everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"


I'm pleased to see that my generalization has brought several short story readers out of the woodwork. If they don't exist in an SF group, the short story is in bigger trouble than I thought.

Often it just takes the right bait. A collection of Rebus stories did it for a die-hard novel reader I know. Next stop, Elmore Leonard (900 grandmothers will take a bit of preparation).

Ceran Swicegood
David Johnston
2018-01-23 04:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>>> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>>> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>>>> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>>> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>>> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>
>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>
>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
>> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
>> understand it.
>>
>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>> changed my mind.
>>
>> Manbreaker Crag
>>
>
> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.

Maybe, but how do you get them?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 04:29:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <p46d23$f78$***@gioia.aioe.org>,
David Johnston <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
>> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>>>> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>>>> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>>>>> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>>>> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>>>> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>>
>>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
>>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>>
>>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
>>> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>>> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
>>> understand it.
>>>
>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>>> changed my mind.
>>>
>>> Manbreaker Crag
>>>
>>
>> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.
>
>Maybe, but how do you get them?

They seem to be kind of a loss leader these days. You will often find
UF short stories in themed anthologies designed to a) sell the anthology
on the names of a few 'bigs' and b)Get you into series from the non-'bigs'.

Some authors like McGuire and Andrews have started to include them with
their novels as bonuses.

Of course all of these are different from the classic "every story is
a new universe with new characters" SF short.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
D B Davis
2018-01-23 05:32:29 UTC
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Ted Nolan <tednolan> <***@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> In article <p46d23$f78$***@gioia.aioe.org>,
> David Johnston <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
>>> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>>>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>>>>> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>>>>> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>>>>>> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>>>>> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>>>>> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>>>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>>>
>>>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
>>>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>>>
>>>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
>>>> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>>>> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
>>>> understand it.
>>>>
>>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>>>> changed my mind.
>>>>
>>>> Manbreaker Crag
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.
>>
>>Maybe, but how do you get them?
>
> They seem to be kind of a loss leader these days. You will often find
> UF short stories in themed anthologies designed to a) sell the anthology
> on the names of a few 'bigs' and b)Get you into series from the non-'bigs'.
>
> Some authors like McGuire and Andrews have started to include them with
> their novels as bonuses.
>
> Of course all of these are different from the classic "every story is
> a new universe with new characters" SF short.

The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
Inet.
It may prove impossible for even a voracious reader to keep up with
all of the new short stories published all of the time. For openers,
there's plenty of webzines [1]. The (arguably) best short stories, which
were nominated for a Nebula [2] or a Hugo [3] are typically available
online.
As Lynn more-or-less says from time to time, this is the neo-Golden
Age of SF. How long it will last is anybody's guess.

1. https://io9.gizmodo.com/io9-newsstand-what-are-your-favorite-sff-magazines-1664295829
2. https://nebulas.sfwa.org/award/best-short-story/
3. http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/2017-hugo-awards/


Thank you,

--
Don

When the power of love replaces the love of power there will be peace.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 06:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 05:32:29 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <***@crcomp.net>
wrote:

>
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <***@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>> In article <p46d23$f78$***@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> David Johnston <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
>>>> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>> Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>>>>>> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>>>>>> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>>>>>>> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>>>>>> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>>>>>> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>>>>> regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't
>>>>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being
>>>>> the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>>>>> which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not
>>>>> understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>>>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>>>>> changed my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Manbreaker Crag
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.
>>>
>>>Maybe, but how do you get them?
>>
>> They seem to be kind of a loss leader these days. You will often find
>> UF short stories in themed anthologies designed to a) sell the anthology
>> on the names of a few 'bigs' and b)Get you into series from the non-'bigs'.
>>
>> Some authors like McGuire and Andrews have started to include them with
>> their novels as bonuses.
>>
>> Of course all of these are different from the classic "every story is
>> a new universe with new characters" SF short.
>
>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
>as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
>Inet.

There are plenty of all-new anthologies, too.

> It may prove impossible for even a voracious reader to keep up with
>all of the new short stories published all of the time. For openers,
>there's plenty of webzines [1]. The (arguably) best short stories, which
>were nominated for a Nebula [2] or a Hugo [3] are typically available
>online.
> As Lynn more-or-less says from time to time, this is the neo-Golden
>Age of SF. How long it will last is anybody's guess.
>
>1. https://io9.gizmodo.com/io9-newsstand-what-are-your-favorite-sff-magazines-1664295829
>2. https://nebulas.sfwa.org/award/best-short-story/
>3. http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/2017-hugo-awards/
>
>
>Thank you,

--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-23 14:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>
>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
>as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
>Inet.

Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades
ago.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-23 15:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
***@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:***@kithrup.com:

> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc
>>offer up short stories in each issue. Older short stories are
>>typically published as anthologies. Then there's the short story
>>cornucopia known as the Inet.
>
> Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades
> ago.
>
There's "Galaxy's Edge," but that's a completely different magazine.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 17:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:45:12 AM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
> >short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
> >as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
> >Inet.
>
> Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades ago.

The original _Galaxy_ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?20425) went
under in 1979. There were abortive attempts to resurrect it in 1980 and
in 1994-1995. The 1994-1995 incarnation was edited by E. J. Gold, H. L.
Gold's son, and included a fair number of classic reprints as well as
new stories.
James Nicoll
2018-01-23 17:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <ea89c821-c554-4354-84ba-***@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:45:12 AM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>> >short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
>> >as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
>> >Inet.
>>
>> Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades ago.
>
>The original _Galaxy_ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?20425) went
>under in 1979. There were abortive attempts to resurrect it in 1980 and
>in 1994-1995. The 1994-1995 incarnation was edited by E. J. Gold, H. L.
>Gold's son, and included a fair number of classic reprints as well as
>new stories.

It's currently on hiatus, though, right?
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 17:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:12:48 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ea89c821-c554-4354-84ba-***@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:45:12 AM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
> >> >short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
> >> >as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
> >> >Inet.
> >>
> >> Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades ago.
> >
> >The original _Galaxy_ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?20425) went
> >under in 1979. There were abortive attempts to resurrect it in 1980 and
> >in 1994-1995. The 1994-1995 incarnation was edited by E. J. Gold, H. L.
> >Gold's son, and included a fair number of classic reprints as well as
> >new stories.
>
> It's currently on hiatus, though, right?

_Galaxy_ has been on hiatus for the last 23 years.
D B Davis
2018-01-23 17:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Dorothy J Heydt <***@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>>short stories in each issue. Older short stories are typically published
>>as anthologies. Then there's the short story cornucopia known as the
>>Inet.
>
> Is _Galaxy_ still publishing? I thought it went under decades
> ago.
>

That's a typo. It should be _Galaxy's Edge_.

Thank you,

--
Don

When the power of love replaces the love of power there will be peace.
James Nicoll
2018-01-23 15:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up

Galaxy?
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
D B Davis
2018-01-23 17:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>
> Galaxy?

That's a typo. It should be _Galaxy's Edge_.

Thank you,

--
Don

When the power of love replaces the love of power there will be peace.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-23 19:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <p47k0r$mnu$***@reader2.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>
>Galaxy?

See upthread. Apparently he meant _Galaxy's Edge_, but I gather
that's nonfunctional at present too.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 19:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <p47k0r$mnu$***@reader2.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
> >
> >Galaxy?
>
> See upthread. Apparently he meant _Galaxy's Edge_, but I gather
> that's nonfunctional at present too.

_Galaxy's Edge_ has been published without interruption for the last
5 years -- see http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?36993
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-23 20:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
news:2717a22a-2cfc-4cba-b439-***@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J
> Heydt wrote:
>> In article <p47k0r$mnu$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>> >In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net>
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_,
>> >>etc offer up
>> >
>> >Galaxy?
>>
>> See upthread. Apparently he meant _Galaxy's Edge_, but I
>> gather that's nonfunctional at present too.
>
> _Galaxy's Edge_ has been published without interruption for the
> last 5 years -- see
> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?36993
>
Indeed. Other than the one just release this month, I have a complete
collection.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2018-01-24 02:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:19:48 GMT, ***@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <p47k0r$mnu$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>>
>>Galaxy?
>
>See upthread. Apparently he meant _Galaxy's Edge_, but I gather
>that's nonfunctional at present too.

Amazon has the January 2018 issue available on Kindle.

However the House of Mouse just used the name for a Star Wars
attraction . . .
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-24 02:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:19:48 GMT, ***@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <p47k0r$mnu$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>In article <***@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The usual suspects, _Analog_, _Asimov's_, _F&SF_, _Galaxy_, etc offer up
>>>
>>>Galaxy?
>>
>>See upthread. Apparently he meant _Galaxy's Edge_, but I gather
>>that's nonfunctional at present too.
>
>Amazon has the January 2018 issue available on Kindle.
>
>However the House of Mouse just used the name for a Star Wars
>attraction . . .
>

Hm. It will be interesting to see who sues whom. Bring popcorn.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Gary R. Schmidt
2018-01-23 05:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 23/01/2018 15:18, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
>> William Hyde <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>>>> Robert Woodward  <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>>>>> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>>>>> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler
>>>>> (MacArthur
>>>>> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>>>>> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>>>>> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>>>> regardless of gender.  Lafferty, anyone?
>>>
>>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago.  Though I
>>> can't
>>> remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>>
>>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above
>>> being
>>> the most readable novel.  One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine"
>>> which I read while largely sleep deprived.  Mind you, I may still not
>>> understand it.
>>>
>>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>>> read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>>> changed my mind.
>>>
>>> Manbreaker Crag
>>>
>>
>> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.
>
> Maybe, but how do you get them?

Amazon Kindle subscription to F&SF - all of USD5.00 for six issues.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
David DeLaney
2018-01-24 08:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-01-23, David Johnston <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2018-01-22 5:04 PM, D B Davis wrote:
>> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day.
>
> Maybe, but how do you get them?

a) anthologies

ii) the SF magazines, print & online

3) websites like tor.com

Dave, gutenberg.org
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Default User
2018-01-23 19:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-6, D B Davis wrote:

> Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
> "everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"
> is a more accurate statement.

I'm a fan of short stories. I recently read some Strahan anthologies, and all of the free offers from Baen.


Brian
Moriarty
2018-01-23 21:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 6:54:49 AM UTC+11, Default User wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-6, D B Davis wrote:
>
> > Let me tell you that short stories work best for me to this very day. So
> > "everybody, except Don, tells me they don't read short stories any more"
> > is a more accurate statement.
>
> I'm a fan of short stories. I recently read some Strahan anthologies, and all of the free offers from Baen.

Me three.

In the past year or three I've read new short story anthologies by Neil Gaiman and China Mieville, an anthology edited by Gaiman, two collections by Alastair Reynolds, old collections I hadn't read by Shirley Jackson, Robert Bloch, Greg Egan and Dan Dimmons as well as re-reading some old favourites by Zelazny, Asimov and Roald Dahl.

-Moriarty
Butch Malahide
2018-01-23 08:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 3:39:45 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> > Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> > >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> > > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> > >
> > >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> > >>
> > >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> > >> a-through-f/
> > >
> > >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> > >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> > >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> > >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> > >there are also several books about her or her writing).
> > >
> >
> > It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> > regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>
> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>
> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine" which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not understand it.
>
> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers" changed my mind.
>
> Manbreaker Crag

I think *The Reefs of Earth* (my first Lafferty novel) and *Space Chantey* and *Annals of Klepsis* are very readable.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 17:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <bdf4d953-d413-43bf-a008-***@googlegroups.com>,
Butch Malahide <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 3:39:45 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> > In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
>> > Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> > >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
>> > > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>> > >>
>> > >>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
>> > >> a-through-f/
>> > >
>> > >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
>> > >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
>> > >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
>> > >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
>> > >there are also several books about her or her writing).
>> > >
>> >
>> > It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
>> > regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
>>
>> We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I
>can't remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
>>
>> Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above
>being the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at
>Easterwine" which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may
>still not understand it.
>>
>> The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't
>read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers"
>changed my mind.
>>
>> Manbreaker Crag
>
>I think *The Reefs of Earth* (my first Lafferty novel) and *Space
>Chantey* and *Annals of Klepsis* are very readable.

"But damn it took them long enough!"

"Wrong prong?"

"Bong gong!"
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
William Hyde
2018-01-23 20:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 3:40:35 AM UTC-5, Butch Malahide wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 3:39:45 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:08:26 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > > In article <robertaw-***@news.individual.net>,
> > > Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com> wrote:
> > > >In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> > > > ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> > > >> a-through-f/
> > > >
> > > >I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> > > >all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> > > >Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> > > >iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> > > >there are also several books about her or her writing).
> > > >
> > >
> > > It seems to me a lot of SF Writers of the 1970s have been erased
> > > regardless of gender. Lafferty, anyone?
> >
> > We were talking about "Past Master" here a few months ago. Though I can't remember how long it's been since any earlier mention of his work.
> >
> > Many people find Lafferty in novel form inaccessible, with the above being the most readable novel. One day I must reread "Arrive at Easterwine" which I read while largely sleep deprived. Mind you, I may still not understand it.
> >
> > The short stories remain a delight, but everybody tells me they don't read short stories any more. I told myself that, but "900 Grandmothers" changed my mind.
> >
> > Manbreaker Crag
>
> I think *The Reefs of Earth* (my first Lafferty novel) and *Space Chantey* and *Annals of Klepsis* are very readable.

I have not read the "Annals" (hangs head in shame) and my copy has gone wherever books go after six moves.

But I agree, the others are very readable as far as I am concerned.

I made one of my closest friends by supplying, at a pub, the names behind R.A. and he had no problem with the novels. But IIRC nobody else at the table had finished any of the novels.

William Hyde
m***@sky.com
2018-01-22 20:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:59:27 PM UTC, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
> > Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> > a-through-f/
>
> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> there are also several books about her or her writing).
>
> --
> "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
> Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
> ã-----------------------------------------------------
> Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com

Anybody out there who actually hasn't heard of C.J.Cherryh - Investigate Cyteen and The Pride of Chanur - they are excellent and have good follow-ups. I've never been able to work out whether she has plots that need about 20 IQ points more than I have got, or whether it is all smoke and mirrors, but either way the result is impressive and provides plenty of suspense. Cyteen has a load of worldbuilding for a world where psychological manipulation is omnipresent and is partly small group dirty politics and partly a detective story with a twist. The Chanur books are partly classic Space Trader books but with balance of power multi-species politics mixed in and a gender politics twist which actually works quite well - the viewpoint characters are of a species roughly based on lions where the females do all the work and the males are considered too aggressively emotional to do anything much except fight.

The Amazon page at https://www.amazon.co.uk/C-J-Cherryh/e/B000APR80U/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1 and the Wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Cherryh_bibliography both suggest that new C.J.Cherryh books are being published - although in series I don't find as much to my taste.
Robert Carnegie
2018-01-23 01:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, 22 January 2018 17:59:27 UTC, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <p44vue$rf3$***@panix3.panix.com>,
> ***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
> > Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-
> > a-through-f/
>
> I don't know if all of those authors have been erased. Cherryh, after
> all, is still being published. I thought that Octavia Butler (MacArthur
> Award winner after all) is pretty high profile; I just checked Apple's
> iBooks store and I think they are pretty complete on her books (and
> there are also several books about her or her writing).

I think e-books don't exactly count as literary survival.
iBooks says it has over 2 million titles, and if you search then
they're there, but are they getting read? Put it another way:
what books do they not have?
Peter Trei
2018-01-22 19:16:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/

I see what you did there...

pt
James Nicoll
2018-01-22 19:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <7d1d3a33-a006-48c7-8430-***@googlegroups.com>,
Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>
>I see what you did there...
>
I honestly have no idea what you are referring to.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Gene Wirchenko
2018-01-24 02:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 19:52:34 +0000 (UTC), ***@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <7d1d3a33-a006-48c7-8430-***@googlegroups.com>,
>Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>
>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2018/01/22/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-a-through-f/
>>
>>I see what you did there...
>>
>I honestly have no idea what you are referring to.

Neither did I. I think it is just blather.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Default User
2018-01-22 21:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F

Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that. I'm familiar with Cherryh from her science-fiction work. I can't say whether I've read any Butler, but I've certainly heard of her.


Brian
James Nicoll
2018-01-22 21:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>
>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.

Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-22 22:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>
>>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>
>Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>--

Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).

I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Moriarty
2018-01-22 22:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
> >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >>
> >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
> >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
> >
> >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
> >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
> >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
> >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
> >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
> >--
>
> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>
> I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).

She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.

-Moriarty
James Nicoll
2018-01-22 22:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <949c863d-2ab0-4a3b-921c-***@googlegroups.com>,
Moriarty <***@ivillage.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>> >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>> >>
>> >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>> >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>> >
>> >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>> >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>> >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>> >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>> >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>> >--
>>
>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>>
>> I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>
>She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.

Dying before ebook meant a fair hiatus in editions....

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 21:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
***@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
news:p45oon$5bi$***@reader2.panix.com:

> In article
> <949c863d-2ab0-4a3b-921c-***@googlegroups.com>,
> Moriarty <***@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>><tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>> >In article
>>> ><6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>> >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James
>>> >>Nicoll wrote:
>>> >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through
>>> >>> F
>>> >>
>>> >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most
>>> >>of what you list is fantasy, and I never have read much of
>>> >>that.
>>> >
>>> >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an
>>> >interplanetary adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like
>>> >Earl Dumarest's, with added missing children. And she is not
>>> >looking for Earth. And she does not learn the first rule of
>>> >adventuring -- never put on a magic hat unless you are sure
>>> >you know how to remove it -- until too late. --
>>>
>>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A
>>> Tree!!?).
>>>
>>> I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being
>>> published as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long
>>> enough).
>>
>>She's still being published. All her books are available in
>>kindle edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure
>>for a mid-list author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not
>>been erased at all.
>
> Dying before ebook meant a fair hiatus in editions....
>
Getting ebook editions anyway is a funny definition of "erased."

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ahasuerus
2018-01-22 22:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
> > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> > >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
> > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> > >>
> > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
> > >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
> > >
> > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
> > >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
> > >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
> > >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
> > >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
> > >--
> >
> > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
> >
> > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
> > as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>
> She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
> edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
> author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.

I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
"erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
for various awards close to 100 times.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 21:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
news:0dffaff0-4176-4b77-b318-***@googlegroups.com:

In> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty
wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>> <tednolan> wrote:
>> > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>> > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>> > >In article
>> > ><6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James
>> > >>Nicoll wrote:
>> > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A
>> > >>> Through F
>> > >>
>> > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But
>> > >>most of what you list is fantasy, and I never have read
>> > >>much of that.
>> > >
>> > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an
>> > >interplanetary adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like
>> > >Earl Dumarest's, with added missing children. And she is not
>> > >looking for Earth. And she does not learn the first rule of
>> > >adventuring -- never put on a magic hat unless you are sure
>> > >you know how to remove it -- until too late. --
>> >
>> > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A
>> > Tree!!?).
>> >
>> > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being
>> > published as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long
>> > enough).
>>
>> She's still being published. All her books are available in
>> kindle edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure
>> for a mid-list author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not
>> been erased at all.
>
> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
>
Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
Grand Master Award (two years ago).

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-22 22:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
>news:0dffaff0-4176-4b77-b318-***@googlegroups.com:
>
>In> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty
>wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>>> <tednolan> wrote:
>>> > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>> > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>> > >In article
>>> > ><6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>> > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James
>>> > >>Nicoll wrote:
>>> > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A
>>> > >>> Through F
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But
>>> > >>most of what you list is fantasy, and I never have read
>>> > >>much of that.
>>> > >
>>> > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an
>>> > >interplanetary adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like
>>> > >Earl Dumarest's, with added missing children. And she is not
>>> > >looking for Earth. And she does not learn the first rule of
>>> > >adventuring -- never put on a magic hat unless you are sure
>>> > >you know how to remove it -- until too late. --
>>> >
>>> > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A
>>> > Tree!!?).
>>> >
>>> > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being
>>> > published as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long
>>> > enough).
>>>
>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in
>>> kindle edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure
>>> for a mid-list author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not
>>> been erased at all.
>>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
>> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
>>
>Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
>Grand Master Award (two years ago).
>

Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my impression
is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!" in there..)
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 21:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:***@mid.individual.net:

> In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
>>news:0dffaff0-4176-4b77-b318-***@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>In> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty
>>wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>>>> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>>> > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> > >In article
>>>> > ><6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James
>>>> > >>Nicoll wrote:
>>>> > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A
>>>> > >>> Through F
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But
>>>> > >>most of what you list is fantasy, and I never have read
>>>> > >>much of that.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an
>>>> > >interplanetary adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like
>>>> > >Earl Dumarest's, with added missing children. And she is
>>>> > >not looking for Earth. And she does not learn the first
>>>> > >rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat unless you
>>>> > >are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late. --
>>>> >
>>>> > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end:
>>>> > A Tree!!?).
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was
>>>> > being published as long as she was able to write (which
>>>> > wasn't long enough).
>>>>
>>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in
>>>> kindle edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good
>>>> exposure for a mid-list author who's been dead for 20 years.
>>>> She's not been erased at all.
>>>
>>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>>> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh
>>> who has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
>>>
>>Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an
>>SWFA Grand Master Award (two years ago).
>>
>
> Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
> every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my
> impression is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him
> now!" in there..)

It's still an odd definition of "erased."

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Kevrob
2018-01-22 23:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:58:32 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> ***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
> news:***@mid.individual.net:

> > Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
> > every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my
> > impression is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him
> > now!" in there..)
>
> It's still an odd definition of "erased."

If you find your name in the obits, you may get "encased."

Kevin R
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-22 22:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Kevrob <***@my-deja.com> wrote in
news:bf5e1bae-ebd2-41f7-b710-***@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:58:32 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> ***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
>> news:***@mid.individual.net:
>
>> > Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the
>> > obits every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at
>> > least my impression is there's a bit of "We had better give
>> > it to her/him now!" in there..)
>>
>> It's still an odd definition of "erased."
>
> If you find your name in the obits, you may get "encased."
>
Which is still an odd definition of "erased."

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Moriarty
2018-01-22 23:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:48:40 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in

<snip>

> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
> >> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
> >>
> >Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
> >Grand Master Award (two years ago).
> >
>
> Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
> every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my impression
> is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!" in there..)

Then the SFWA are terrible diagnosticians. A quick check of the list reveals that only two of the last 14 recipients are dead and very few of the rest died within two years of receiving the award. The notable exception being Alfred Bester, who died before he got it but after it had been announced. The next closest was Lester del Rey who lingered for two years, followed by Poul Anderson and Harry Harrison with three.

If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another decade or so of life!

-Moriarty
Ahasuerus
2018-01-22 23:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:03:04 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:48:40 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
>
> <snip>
>
> > >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
> > >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
> > >> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
> > >>
> > >Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
> > >Grand Master Award (two years ago).
> >
> > Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
> > every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my impression
> > is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!" in there..)
>
> Then the SFWA are terrible diagnosticians. A quick check of the list
> reveals that only two of the last 14 recipients are dead and very few
> of the rest died within two years of receiving the award. The notable
> exception being Alfred Bester, who died before he got it but after it
> had been announced. The next closest was Lester del Rey who lingered
> for two years, followed by Poul Anderson and Harry Harrison with three.
>
> If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another decade or
> so of life!

The joke (ca. 1985-1987) was that the Grand Master Award also conferred
immortality.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 05:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:03:01 -0800 (PST), Moriarty
<***@ivillage.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:48:40 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
>
><snip>
>
>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
>> >> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
>> >>
>> >Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
>> >Grand Master Award (two years ago).
>> >
>>
>> Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
>> every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my impression
>> is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!" in there..)
>
>Then the SFWA are terrible diagnosticians. A quick check of the list reveals that only two of the last 14 recipients are dead and very few of the rest died within two years of receiving the award. The notable exception being Alfred Bester, who died before he got it but after it had been announced. The next closest was Lester del Rey who lingered for two years, followed by Poul Anderson and Harry Harrison with three.
>
>If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another decade or so of life!

Didn't van Vogt die very soon after receiving it?

But yeah, most Grand Masters get to enjoy the title for several years.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 15:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:44:24 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:03:01 -0800 (PST), Moriarty <***@ivillage.com>
> wrote:
> [snip-snip]
> > If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another decade
> > or so of life!
>
> Didn't van Vogt die very soon after receiving it? [snip]

Kind of: 1996-2000. Also:

Alfred Bester: 1988-1987 [sic]
Lester del Rey: 1991-1993
Poul Anderson: 1998-2001
Hal Clement: 1999-2003
Harry Harrison: 2009-2012
Moriarty
2018-01-23 21:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 4:44:24 PM UTC+11, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:03:01 -0800 (PST), Moriarty
> <***@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:48:40 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
> >> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
> >> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who
> >> >> has been nominated for various awards close to 100 times.
> >> >>
> >> >Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get an SWFA
> >> >Grand Master Award (two years ago).
> >> >
> >>
> >> Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the obits
> >> every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at least my impression
> >> is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!" in there..)
> >
> >Then the SFWA are terrible diagnosticians. A quick check of the list reveals that only two of the last 14 recipients are dead and very few of the rest died within two years of receiving the award. The notable exception being Alfred Bester, who died before he got it but after it had been announced. The next closest was Lester del Rey who lingered for two years, followed by Poul Anderson and Harry Harrison with three.
> >
> >If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another decade or so of life!
>
> Didn't van Vogt die very soon after receiving it?
>
> But yeah, most Grand Masters get to enjoy the title for several years.

They really should give one to George R R Martin, to make sure he has enough time to finish A Game of Thrones.

-Moriarty
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-23 20:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Moriarty <***@ivillage.com> wrote in
news:06b4bb07-04fb-4e7e-b836-***@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 4:44:24 PM UTC+11, Lawrence
> Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:03:01 -0800 (PST), Moriarty
>> <***@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:48:40 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>> ><tednolan>
> wrote:
>> >> In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
>> >> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote in
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>> >> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J.
>> >> >> Cherryh who has been nominated for various awards close
>> >> >> to 100 times.
>> >> >>
>> >> >Apparently, an important step in being "erased" is to get
>> >> >an SWFA Grand Master Award (two years ago).
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Weeeell. If you get that, you probably *should* read the
>> >> obits every day before deciding to get out of bed. (Or at
>> >> least my impressi
> on
>> >> is there's a bit of "We had better give it to her/him now!"
>> >> in there..
> )
>> >
>> >Then the SFWA are terrible diagnosticians. A quick check of
>> >the list rev
> eals that only two of the last 14 recipients are dead and very
> few of the rest died within two years of receiving the award.
> The notable exception being Alfred Bester, who died before he
> got it but after it had been announced. The next closest was
> Lester del Rey who lingered for two years, followed by Poul
> Anderson and Harry Harrison with three.
>> >
>> >If anything, a Grand Master award seems to guarantee another
>> >decade or s
> o of life!
>>
>> Didn't van Vogt die very soon after receiving it?
>>
>> But yeah, most Grand Masters get to enjoy the title for several
>> years.
>
> They really should give one to George R R Martin, to make sure
> he has enough time to finish A Game of Thrones.
>
Based on his progress so far, I suspect they'd also have to give
one to the heat death of the universe, then.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-01-23 00:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
> > > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> > > >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
> > > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> > > >>
> > > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
> > > >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
> > > >
> > > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
> > > >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
> > > >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
> > > >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
> > > >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
> > > >--
> > >
> > > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
> > >
> > > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
> > > as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
> >
> > She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
> > edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
> > author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>
> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
> for various awards close to 100 times.

There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read Tanith Lee. It might have been Electric Forest?)
In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 00:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 7:40:20 PM UTC-5, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
[snip-snip]
> > I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
> > "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
> > for various awards close to 100 times.
>
> There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one,
> you wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read
> Tanith Lee. It might have been Electric Forest?)
>
> In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill
> them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in
> which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story
> couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?

In the comments section James referred to:

> the guys who rewrote SF history to make their own achievements loom
> larger by erasing the women who came before, and all the people who
> curate lists of “must read” spec fic that are almost entirely beret
> of books by women.

and linked Jeanne Gomoll's "A Open Letter to Joanna Russ" --
http://www.reocities.com/athens/8720/letter.htm . The letter says,
in part:

"In the preface to Burning Chrome, Bruce Sterling rhapsodizes about
the quality and promise of the new wave of SF writers, the so-called
"cyberpunks" of the late 1980s, and then compares their work to that
of the preceding decade:

"The sad truth of the matter is that SF has not been much fun of late.
All forms of pop culture go through the doldrums: they catch cold when
society sneezes. If SF in the late Seventies was confused, self-involved,
and stale, it was scarcely a cause for wonder."

With a touch of the keys on his word processor, Sterling dumps a decade
of SF writing out of cultural memory: the whole decade was boring,
symptomatic of a sick culture, not worth writing about. Now, at last,
he says, we're on to the right stuff again.

All the people who were made nervous or bored or threatened by the
explosion of women's writing and issues now find it safe to come out
and speak out loud of their dissatisfaction. Of course, it's safer to
criticize generally ("It was a self-involved, me-decade,' and nothing
worthwhile was created") than to say specifically what they mean. (The
women writers of the 70s bored me because I didn't care about their
ideas; I felt left out. "They wrote it but it was a boring fad.")"
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-23 02:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <37f3a0f5-3ca6-497e-9298-***@googlegroups.com>,
***@yahoo.com <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
><tednolan> wrote:
>> > > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>> > > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>> > > >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> > > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>> > > >>
>> > > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>> > > >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>> > > >
>> > > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>> > > >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>> > > >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>> > > >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>> > > >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>> > > >--
>> > >
>> > > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>> > >
>> > > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>> > > as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>> >
>> > She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>> > edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>> > author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>
>There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you
>wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read Tanith Lee.
>It might have been Electric Forest?)
> In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill
>them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in
>which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story
>couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?

I was going to say Charles Dickens, _A Christmas Carol._ Only he
came *before* Wells.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Johnston
2018-01-23 02:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-01-22 7:11 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <37f3a0f5-3ca6-497e-9298-***@googlegroups.com>,
> ***@yahoo.com <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>>>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>>>>>>> list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>>>>>> adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>>>>>> added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>>>>>> not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>>>>>> unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>>>>> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>>>>
>>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>>>> edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>>>> author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>>>
>>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>>
>> There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you
>> wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read Tanith Lee.
>> It might have been Electric Forest?)
>> In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill
>> them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in
>> which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story
>> couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?
>
> I was going to say Charles Dickens, _A Christmas Carol._ Only he
> came *before* Wells.
>
Except it's not time travel. It's visions of past, present and future.
Non-interactive VR.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-01-23 03:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 1/22/2018 6:31 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2018-01-22 7:11 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <37f3a0f5-3ca6-497e-9298-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> ***@yahoo.com <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
>>> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>>>>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Default User  <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of
>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>> list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>>>>>>> adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>>>>>>> added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>>>>>>> unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A
>>>>>> Tree!!?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know that she was erased.  As I recall, she was being
>>>>>> published
>>>>>> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>>>>>
>>>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>>>>> edition at Amazon.  I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>>>>> author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>>>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>>>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>>>
>>> There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you
>>> wipe the minds of everybody who read them.  (I think I read Tanith Lee.
>>> It might have been Electric Forest?)
>>>    In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill
>>> them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in
>>> which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story
>>> couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?
>>
>> I was going to say Charles Dickens, _A Christmas Carol._  Only he
>> came *before* Wells.
>>
> Except it's not time travel.  It's visions of past, present and future.
> Non-interactive VR.

'A Christmas Carol' is cyberpunk? Or should that be steampunk?

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Robert Carnegie
2018-01-23 11:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 03:44:39 UTC, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 1/22/2018 6:31 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> > On 2018-01-22 7:11 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <37f3a0f5-3ca6-497e-9298-***@googlegroups.com>,
> >> ***@yahoo.com <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan
> >>> <tednolan> wrote:
> >>>>>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
> >>>>>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>>> Default User  <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of
> >>>>>>>> what you
> >>>>>>>> list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
> >>>>>>> adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
> >>>>>>> added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she
> >>>>>>> does
> >>>>>>> not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
> >>>>>>> unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A
> >>>>>> Tree!!?).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't know that she was erased.  As I recall, she was being
> >>>>>> published
> >>>>>> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
> >>>>> edition at Amazon.  I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
> >>>>> author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
> >>>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
> >>>> for various awards close to 100 times.
> >>>
> >>> There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you
> >>> wipe the minds of everybody who read them.  (I think I read Tanith Lee.
> >>> It might have been Electric Forest?)
> >>>    In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill
> >>> them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in
> >>> which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story
> >>> couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?
> >>
> >> I was going to say Charles Dickens, _A Christmas Carol._  Only he
> >> came *before* Wells.
> >>
> > Except it's not time travel.  It's visions of past, present and future.
> > Non-interactive VR.
>
> 'A Christmas Carol' is cyberpunk? Or should that be steampunk?

Magic realism? :-)

It's science fiction if the science is economics - that is
the setting of it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dismal_science>
and good lord that's monstrous... oh, "devil's advocate".
And apparently a career-ending work, anyway.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-01-23 03:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 1/22/2018 4:40 PM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>>>> James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>>>>>> list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>>>>> adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>>>>> added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>>>>> not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>>>>> unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>>>>
>>>> I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>>>> as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>>>
>>> She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>>> edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>>> author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>
> There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read Tanith Lee. It might have been Electric Forest?)
> In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?
>
Maybe it was H.G. Wells. ;)

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 06:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:40:16 -0800 (PST), "***@yahoo.com"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:39:20 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:16:01 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:00:24 AM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> > > In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>> > > James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>> > > >In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> > > >Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > >>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > >>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>> > > >>
>> > > >>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>> > > >>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>> > > >
>> > > >Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>> > > >adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>> > > >added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>> > > >not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>> > > >unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>> > > >--
>> > >
>> > > Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>> > >
>> > > I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>> > > as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).
>> >
>> > She's still being published. All her books are available in kindle
>> > edition at Amazon. I'd say that's pretty good exposure for a mid-list
>> > author who's been dead for 20 years. She's not been erased at all.
>>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>
>There are at least 2 SF ways to erase an author. In the first one, you wipe the minds of everybody who read them. (I think I read Tanith Lee. It might have been Electric Forest?)
> In the second way you go back in time and kill their parents or kill them before they start writing. Someone must have written a story in which someone goes back and kills H.G. Wells. In which case that story couldn't exist.... Hmmm who wrote the second time travel story?

_The Time Machine_ was not the first time travel story. _A
Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_ had come out several years
earlier, to name the most obvious example, and there were others.

What was new about _The Time Machine_ was that the time travel was
CONTROLLED, a product of science and technology, not accidental or
magical.





--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Carl Fink
2018-01-23 01:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:

> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
> for various awards close to 100 times.

I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
James Nicoll
2018-01-23 03:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@panix2.panix.com>,
Carl Fink <***@finknetwork.com> wrote:
>On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>
>I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.

This. Although I am not sure you need to qualify it with "in the 1970s",
given that papers like the Guardian publish wondering pieces about women
finally writing SF, not to mention items like this:

http://www.bookwormblues.net/2018/01/17/twitter-firestorms-and-my-response-to-a-threat/


--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 06:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
wrote:

>On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>
>I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.

For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
Russ, James Tiptree...



--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Carl Fink
2018-01-23 14:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> Russ, James Tiptree...

Andre Norton, MZB ....

I didn't say the perception was correct.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 15:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> > Russ, James Tiptree...
>
> Andre Norton, MZB ....
>
> I didn't say the perception was correct.

I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
spaceships" and such.

Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
be earlier.)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 17:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <8be65165-8e20-4fa4-ad71-***@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> > Russ, James Tiptree...
>>
>> Andre Norton, MZB ....
>>
>> I didn't say the perception was correct.
>
>I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>spaceships" and such.
>
>Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>be earlier.)

Man, the *70s*?! That was the age of grotty spaceships like
The Hooded Swan built with imorally stolen Xenotech and piloted by
conflicted losers who could barely say 'hello' without making a new
enemy...
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 17:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:32:21 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <8be65165-8e20-4fa4-ad71-***@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey,
> >> > Joanna Russ, James Tiptree...
> >>
> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >>
> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
> >
> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> >spaceships" and such.
> >
> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> >be earlier.)
>
> Man, the *70s*?! That was the age of grotty spaceships like
> The Hooded Swan built with imorally stolen Xenotech and piloted by
> conflicted losers who could barely say 'hello' without making a new
> enemy...

It might be interesting to do a breakdown of the top 50 1970s novels --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/most_popular.cgi?1+decade+1970 --
by subgenre and mood.
m***@sky.com
2018-01-23 18:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 5:32:21 PM UTC, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <8be65165-8e20-4fa4-ad71-***@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> >> > Russ, James Tiptree...
> >>
> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >>
> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
> >
> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> >spaceships" and such.
> >
> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> >be earlier.)
>
> Man, the *70s*?! That was the age of grotty spaceships like
> The Hooded Swan built with imorally stolen Xenotech and piloted by
> conflicted losers who could barely say 'hello' without making a new
> enemy...
> --
> ------
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..

I'll accept conflicted loser as an alternative for cynical and scarred, but the Hooded Swan, complete with its breakthrough technology (can't remember if it was well-gotten or not) was an excellent ship.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 18:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <e459f825-4c32-4d94-a568-***@googlegroups.com>,
<***@sky.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 5:32:21 PM UTC, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <8be65165-8e20-4fa4-ad71-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> >> > Russ, James Tiptree...
>> >>
>> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
>> >>
>> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
>> >
>> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>> >spaceships" and such.
>> >
>> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>> >be earlier.)
>>
>> Man, the *70s*?! That was the age of grotty spaceships like
>> The Hooded Swan built with imorally stolen Xenotech and piloted by
>> conflicted losers who could barely say 'hello' without making a new
>> enemy...
>> --
>> ------
>> columbiaclosings.com
>> What's not in Columbia anymore..
>
>I'll accept conflicted loser as an alternative for cynical and scarred,
>but the Hooded Swan, complete with its breakthrough technology (can't
>remember if it was well-gotten or not) was an excellent ship.

Yeah, that's true -- it was the people around it who were battered
and non-gleamy.

The tech wasn't *exactly* stolen, but it was pointed out that somehow
with the merge of Human & Khorman tech, you didn't see the Khorman riding
around in a Hooded Swan. The implication was they got snookered somehow I
think. Been a *looong* time..

Hmm, looks like Stableford is still writing!
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 19:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:57:00 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <e459f825-4c32-4d94-a568-***@googlegroups.com>,
> <***@sky.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 5:32:21 PM UTC, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <8be65165-8e20-4fa4-ad71-***@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
> >> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> >> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> >> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> >> >> > Russ, James Tiptree...
> >> >>
> >> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >> >>
> >> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
> >> >
> >> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> >> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> >> >spaceships" and such.
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> >> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> >> >be earlier.)
> >>
> >> Man, the *70s*?! That was the age of grotty spaceships like
> >> The Hooded Swan built with imorally stolen Xenotech and piloted by
> >> conflicted losers who could barely say 'hello' without making a new
> >> enemy...
> >> --
> >> ------
> >> columbiaclosings.com
> >> What's not in Columbia anymore..
> >
> >I'll accept conflicted loser as an alternative for cynical and scarred,
> >but the Hooded Swan, complete with its breakthrough technology (can't
> >remember if it was well-gotten or not) was an excellent ship.
>
> Yeah, that's true -- it was the people around it who were battered
> and non-gleamy.
>
> The tech wasn't *exactly* stolen, but it was pointed out that somehow
> with the merge of Human & Khorman tech, you didn't see the Khorman riding
> around in a Hooded Swan. The implication was they got snookered somehow I
> think. Been a *looong* time..
>
> Hmm, looks like Stableford is still writing!

He's been translating/adapting/editing French SF lately. Check out
Black Coat Press -- http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?17405
-- something like 50%+ of their recent books were done by Stableford.
Impressive productivity for a man who is about to turn 70.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 17:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 07:37:53 -0800 (PST), Ahasuerus
<***@email.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> > Russ, James Tiptree...
>>
>> Andre Norton, MZB ....
>>
>> I didn't say the perception was correct.
>
>I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>spaceships" and such.
>
>Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>be earlier.)

Gleaming spaceships were around in the 1950s and early '60s and so was
I; by the 1970s, I was still here but the gleaming spaceships, not so
much.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 18:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:44:28 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 07:37:53 -0800 (PST), Ahasuerus
> <***@email.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> >> > Russ, James Tiptree...
> >>
> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >>
> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
> >
> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> >spaceships" and such.
> >
> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> >be earlier.)
>
> Gleaming spaceships were around in the 1950s and early '60s and so was
> I; by the 1970s, I was still here but the gleaming spaceships, not so
> much.

I'd say that gleaming spaceships peaked in the 1930s. They were still
very much in evidence during the Golden Age of the 1940s, but less
exuberant SF became more noticeable. With the rise of _Galaxy_ and
_F&SF_ in the early 1950s, gleaming spaceships had to yield the
center stage but remained very common in second- and third-tier
magazines. During the "death of science fiction" interregnum, i.e.
in the late 1950s and early 1960s, things were adrift and gleaming
space were perhaps more noticeable simply because there wasn't much
else going on. Then the New Wave came and took things in an entirely
different direction.
Kevrob
2018-01-23 18:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:44:28 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 07:37:53 -0800 (PST), Ahasuerus
> <***@email.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> >> On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> >> > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> >> > Russ, James Tiptree...
> >>
> >> Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >>
> >> I didn't say the perception was correct.
> >
> >I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> >have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> >spaceships" and such.
> >
> >Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> >(or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> >be earlier.)
>
> Gleaming spaceships were around in the 1950s and early '60s and so was
> I; by the 1970s, I was still here but the gleaming spaceships, not so
> much.
>

By 1974, the film "Dark Star" had come out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)

If anyone hadn't been aware of the "ramshackle spaceship/space station"
trope by then, some of the ships in "Star Wars" (1977) looked pretty
shabby, including that hot rod in station wagon's clothing, the
Millennium Falcon.

In real life we had SkyLab, which had to be jury-rigged with a
sunshade when it's thermal protection was damaged.

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_543.html

Space: It can get funky out there!

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2018-01-23 22:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:37:57 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
> > On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> > > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> > > Russ, James Tiptree...
> >
> > Andre Norton, MZB ....
> >
> > I didn't say the perception was correct.
>
> I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
> have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
> spaceships" and such.
>
> Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
> (or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
> be earlier.)

David Bowie; Neil Young; The Carpenters; Chris de Burgh...

That's for the 1970s. But as for before I was born...
apparently this? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_age_pop>

I think the only names I recognise are "Sputnik", "Telstar",
"Henry Mancini", and "Peter Gunn".

It's probably cheating to say "Aaron Copland"??
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-24 00:28:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <4678a3ec-628c-483c-8303-***@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <***@excite.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:37:57 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>> > On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> > > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> > > Russ, James Tiptree...
>> >
>> > Andre Norton, MZB ....
>> >
>> > I didn't say the perception was correct.
>>
>> I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>> have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>> spaceships" and such.
>>
>> Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>> (or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>> be earlier.)
>
>David Bowie; Neil Young; The Carpenters; Chris de Burgh...
>
>That's for the 1970s. But as for before I was born...
>apparently this? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_age_pop>
>
>I think the only names I recognise are "Sputnik", "Telstar",
>"Henry Mancini", and "Peter Gunn".

Mancini was the only composer I recognized. But I do remember,
not the _Peter Gunn_ show itself, but its soundtrack, because a
friend of mine had the record and played it a lot.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-24 00:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <***@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <4678a3ec-628c-483c-8303-***@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <***@excite.com> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:37:57 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>>> > On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>>> > > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>>> > > Russ, James Tiptree...
>>> >
>>> > Andre Norton, MZB ....
>>> >
>>> > I didn't say the perception was correct.
>>>
>>> I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>>> have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>>> spaceships" and such.
>>>
>>> Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>>> (or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>>> be earlier.)
>>
>>David Bowie; Neil Young; The Carpenters; Chris de Burgh...
>>
>>That's for the 1970s. But as for before I was born...
>>apparently this? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_age_pop>
>>
>>I think the only names I recognise are "Sputnik", "Telstar",
>>"Henry Mancini", and "Peter Gunn".
>
>Mancini was the only composer I recognized. But I do remember,
>not the _Peter Gunn_ show itself, but its soundtrack, because a
>friend of mine had the record and played it a lot.
>

Nobody remembers the show. Everybody remembers the theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oysMt8iL9UE
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-01-24 02:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <***@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <***@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <4678a3ec-628c-483c-8303-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>Robert Carnegie <***@excite.com> wrote:
>>>On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:37:57 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>>>> > > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>>>> > > Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>> >
>>>> > Andre Norton, MZB ....
>>>> >
>>>> > I didn't say the perception was correct.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>>>> have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>>>> spaceships" and such.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>>>> (or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>>>> be earlier.)
>>>
>>>David Bowie; Neil Young; The Carpenters; Chris de Burgh...
>>>
>>>That's for the 1970s. But as for before I was born...
>>>apparently this? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_age_pop>
>>>
>>>I think the only names I recognise are "Sputnik", "Telstar",
>>>"Henry Mancini", and "Peter Gunn".
>>
>>Mancini was the only composer I recognized. But I do remember,
>>not the _Peter Gunn_ show itself, but its soundtrack, because a
>>friend of mine had the record and played it a lot.
>>
>
>Nobody remembers the show. Everybody remembers the theme song:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oysMt8iL9UE

Yup. Catchy tune, that.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-24 07:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:54:05 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<***@excite.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:37:57 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Carl Fink wrote:
>> > On 2018-01-23, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> > > serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> > > Russ, James Tiptree...
>> >
>> > Andre Norton, MZB ....
>> >
>> > I didn't say the perception was correct.
>>
>> I don't think I have come across this particular perception, but I
>> have seen posts which referred to the 1970s as an era of "gleaming
>> spaceships" and such.
>>
>> Perhaps gleaming spaceships will forever remain 40 years in the past
>> (or 10 years before the writer's year of birth, whichever happens to
>> be earlier.)
>
>David Bowie; Neil Young; The Carpenters; Chris de Burgh...
>
>That's for the 1970s. But as for before I was born...
>apparently this? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_age_pop>
>
>I think the only names I recognise are "Sputnik", "Telstar",
>"Henry Mancini", and "Peter Gunn".
>
>It's probably cheating to say "Aaron Copland"??

Why are you talking about music?





--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Peter Trei
2018-01-23 14:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
> >> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
> >> for various awards close to 100 times.
> >
> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
> >the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>
> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
> serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
> Russ, James Tiptree...

plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not sure when I
found out about Tiptree).

pt
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 17:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>> >> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>> >> for various awards close to 100 times.
>> >
>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>> >the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>
>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>> serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>> Russ, James Tiptree...
>
>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not sure when I
>found out about Tiptree).

Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
definitely.

If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a personal
favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in Hollywood as a
script doctor by then.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 17:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>>> >> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>>> >> for various awards close to 100 times.
>>> >
>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>>> >the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>
>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>>> serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>>> Russ, James Tiptree...
>>
>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not sure when I
>>found out about Tiptree).
>
>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>definitely.
>
>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a personal
>favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in Hollywood as a
>script doctor by then.
>

I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her last visit
with Stark.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-23 17:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:***@mid.individual.net:

> In article
> <***@reader80.eternal-september.or
> g>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
>><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence
>>>Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
>>>> <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>>>> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J.
>>>> >> Cherryh who has been nominated for various awards close to
>>>> >> 100 times.
>>>> >
>>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual
>>>> >writers so much as the gestalt perception, looking back,
>>>> >that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>>
>>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's
>>>> some serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne
>>>> McCaffrey, Joanna Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>
>>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not
>>>sure when I found out about Tiptree).
>>
>>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>>definitely.
>>
>>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a
>>personal favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in
>>Hollywood as a script doctor by then.
>>
>
> I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her
> last visit with Stark.

Katherine Kurts was writing in the 70s, too. I don't think Juliian
May started publishing till the 80s, though.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 18:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@69.16.179.42>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
>news:***@mid.individual.net:
>
>> In article
>> <***@reader80.eternal-september.or
>> g>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
>>><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence
>>>>Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
>>>>> <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>>>>> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J.
>>>>> >> Cherryh who has been nominated for various awards close to
>>>>> >> 100 times.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual
>>>>> >writers so much as the gestalt perception, looking back,
>>>>> >that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's
>>>>> some serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne
>>>>> McCaffrey, Joanna Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>>
>>>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not
>>>>sure when I found out about Tiptree).
>>>
>>>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>>>definitely.
>>>
>>>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a
>>>personal favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in
>>>Hollywood as a script doctor by then.
>>>
>>
>> I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her
>> last visit with Stark.
>
>Katherine Kurts was writing in the 70s, too. I don't think Juliian
>May started publishing till the 80s, though.
>

IIRC, May published "Dune Roller" in the 50s then dropped out of SF
for a long while.
--
------
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What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ahasuerus
2018-01-23 18:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:25:17 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
[snip-snip]
> IIRC, May published "Dune Roller" in the 50s then dropped out of SF
> for a long while.

Also "Star of Wonder" (1953) --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?78020
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-01-23 17:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:***@mid.individual.net:

> In article <***@69.16.179.42>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
>>news:***@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <***@reader80.eternal-september.
>>> or g>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
>>>><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence
>>>>>Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
>>>>>> <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>>>>>> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J.
>>>>>> >> Cherryh who has been nominated for various awards close
>>>>>> >> to 100 times.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual
>>>>>> >writers so much as the gestalt perception, looking back,
>>>>>> >that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's
>>>>>> some serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne
>>>>>> McCaffrey, Joanna Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>>>
>>>>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not
>>>>>sure when I found out about Tiptree).
>>>>
>>>>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>>>>definitely.
>>>>
>>>>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a
>>>>personal favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in
>>>>Hollywood as a script doctor by then.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her
>>> last visit with Stark.
>>
>>Katherine Kurts was writing in the 70s, too. I don't think
>>Juliian May started publishing till the 80s, though.
>>
>
> IIRC, May published "Dune Roller" in the 50s then dropped out of
> SF for a long while.

Many Colored Land was published in 1981, according to Wikipedia.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-01-23 18:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@69.16.179.43>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
>news:***@mid.individual.net:
>
>> In article <***@69.16.179.42>,
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
>>>news:***@mid.individual.net:
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> <***@reader80.eternal-september.
>>>> or g>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
>>>>><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence
>>>>>>Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
>>>>>>> <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's
>>>>>>> >> definition of "erased". One that would include C. J.
>>>>>>> >> Cherryh who has been nominated for various awards close
>>>>>>> >> to 100 times.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual
>>>>>>> >writers so much as the gestalt perception, looking back,
>>>>>>> >that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's
>>>>>>> some serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne
>>>>>>> McCaffrey, Joanna Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not
>>>>>>sure when I found out about Tiptree).
>>>>>
>>>>>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>>>>>definitely.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a
>>>>>personal favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in
>>>>>Hollywood as a script doctor by then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her
>>>> last visit with Stark.
>>>
>>>Katherine Kurts was writing in the 70s, too. I don't think
>>>Juliian May started publishing till the 80s, though.
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, May published "Dune Roller" in the 50s then dropped out of
>> SF for a long while.
>
>Many Colored Land was published in 1981, according to Wikipedia.
>

Yeah, it was just a quibble. She had *started* publishing before
that, but was basically unknown.
--
------
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What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-01-23 18:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 23 Jan 2018 17:53:57 GMT, ***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <***@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:22:12 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
>><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 1:29:08 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>>>> >> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>>>> >> for various awards close to 100 times.
>>>> >
>>>> >I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>>>> >the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>>>>
>>>> For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>>>> serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>>>> Russ, James Tiptree...
>>>
>>>plus Andre Norton, Judith Merrill, Madeleine L'Engle... (not sure when I
>>>found out about Tiptree).
>>
>>Merrill had mostly stopped writing by the '70s, but Norton,
>>definitely.
>>
>>If you count Merril you should consider Leigh Brackett -- a personal
>>favorite of mine. Though she was mostly working in Hollywood as a
>>script doctor by then.
>
>I believe the "Ginger Star" trilogy was from the 70s and her last visit
>with Stark.

Right you are! I'd forgotten. Thank you.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
James Nicoll
2018-01-23 15:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 01:50:41 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <***@panix.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2018-01-22, Ahasuerus <***@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess the first thing that we need is the compiler's definition of
>>> "erased". One that would include C. J. Cherryh who has been nominated
>>> for various awards close to 100 times.
>>
>>I speculate that JDN is not referring to the individual writers so much as
>>the gestalt perception, looking back, that SFF was all-male in the 1970s.
>
>For those of us who remember reading SF in the '70s, that's some
>serious cognitive dissonance. Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Joanna
>Russ, James Tiptree...
>
People can have very selective memories.

--
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My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
J. Clarke
2018-01-23 03:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 22 Jan 2018 22:00:22 GMT, ***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <p45mf9$6i3$***@reader2.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <6d83462e-9e20-413e-bf33-***@googlegroups.com>,
>>Default User <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, A Through F
>>>
>>>Most of those I've either not heard of or not read. But most of what you
>>>list is fantasy, and I never have read much of that.
>>
>>Jo Clayton also did SF. The Diadem series is about an interplanetary
>>adventurer whose quest is an awful lot like Earl Dumarest's, with
>>added missing children. And she is not looking for Earth. And she does
>>not learn the first rule of adventuring -- never put on a magic hat
>>unless you are sure you know how to remove it -- until too late.
>>--
>
>Clayton was great, esp the Duel of Sorcery (up to the end: A Tree!!?).
>
>I don't know that she was erased. As I recall, she was being published
>as long as she was able to write (which wasn't long enough).

And her obituary was read into the Congressional Record.
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