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Was this in the Original Edition?
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Robert Woodward
2018-06-13 05:07:25 UTC
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I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.

The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
5/6ths point in chapter 5:

"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"

(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)

he later replies:

"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."

The second is around the 1/6th point in chapter 8:

"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."

(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)

I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Bill Gill
2018-06-13 13:24:30 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
I can't find anything like that in either chapter 5 or 8. It may
be there, but it doesn't pop up on a quick scan. I don't
plan to read the whole book looking for it.

Bill
Robert Carnegie
2018-06-13 20:55:37 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
I can't find anything like that in either chapter 5 or 8. It may
be there, but it doesn't pop up on a quick scan. I don't
plan to read the whole book looking for it.
Bill
Wikipedia says the original publication is 1979.
Google Books is displaying an edition "Copyright 2015".
It's probably an update. William Gibson's
"Johnny Mnemonic" was 1981 and using repurposed human
memory for data transfer. Also, Google's edition
comes divided by "Section", not "Chapter".

"Cloud" appears a few times in the searchable text,
twice as the verb "to cut cloud", which may mean
"to un-friend on social media".

Perhaps the original text referred to something
dreadfully archaic like "Arpanet" or "vinyl".
I've loaded software from vinyl (I think), but
not recently - and not quickly: I think I'm
remembering a very early computer magazine
cover disc... 45 rpm.
b***@dontspam.silent.com
2018-06-13 22:37:29 UTC
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:07:25 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
Comparing my copy to the Kindle edition on Amazon I would say the
Kindle has been completely rewritten.

Old version (look at paragraph 2)
-----------
CHAPTER ONE

The whole world mourned the Invictus. People everywhere paused at any
news of her, and those who believed in gods and miracles prayed. She
was an American-built ramjet, carrying American colonists, but
messages from the ships Earth had launched toward the stars over the
past twenty years were rare and therefore international events. The
Invictus became an international tragedy.

The newscanner in the squadroom of the Shawnee County Police
Department's Crimes Against Persons squad had been there for so long,
no one remembered the set's origin, whether it had been donated or
abandoned there or was recovered stolen property someone had
"forgotten" to turn in to the property room. It was usually a
little-attended but familiar part of the background, and leos¯law
enforcement officers¯on all three watches tossed spare vending tokens
into the cup on Lieutenant Hari Vradel's desk so that once a month the
burly squad commander could redeem the tokens and have the bankcredit
transferred to Newservice, Inc. for the subscription. This morning,
however, every eye, in the squadroom stared at the set, morning and
day watches alike. The only sound in the room was the voice of KTNB's
voice-over announcer reading the text that rolled across the screen.


Compare with the Amazon "look inside"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doppelganger-Gambit-Brill-Maxwell-Book-ebook/dp/B00TEHMHJW/ref=la_B000APJGNC_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1528929017&sr=1-1#reader_B00TEHMHJW

Newscanner becomes "vid screen" etc etc.
Robert Woodward
2018-06-14 04:46:21 UTC
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Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:07:25 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
Comparing my copy to the Kindle edition on Amazon I would say the
Kindle has been completely rewritten.
Old version (look at paragraph 2)
-----------
CHAPTER ONE
<snip 1st paragraph>
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
The newscanner in the squadroom of the Shawnee County Police
Department's Crimes Against Persons squad
<snip of about 8 lines of text not in the e-book>
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
This morning,
however, every eye, in the squadroom stared at the set, morning and
day watches alike. The only sound in the room was the voice of KTNB's
voice-over announcer reading the text that rolled across the screen.
Newscanner becomes "vid screen" etc etc.
What about the text I was interested in? Here is a more extensive quote
from the e-book:

"Because there's nothing to see. Memory totally purged ... disc wiped
beyond recovery. And did she make that dramatic!" He paused. "Hardy said
this was plugged into a computer where you found a body?"
Janna nodded. So this is what we'll see turning on that computer? Our
victim took the computer files with hem when he died?" Destroying
evidence, and himself. To her that said guilty conscience.
"Likely only those on the computer."
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean," Janna said.
Musa nodded. "Assuming your jon didn't try deleting that before
executing this baby."
"Could he?"
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all by the very e-savvy. Our data which
art in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
Then why wipe the computer? "Will the backup tell us which files have
been viewed when?"
"Only when they were last modified ... and maybe not the most recent
modifications if he wiped the memory before the next scheduled
auto-backup."
So maybe activity was what Kellener wanted to hide ... and in his state
of mind he forgot about the cloud.

And now that I typed out the above, I think some commas are missing.
Just how much of this is new?

Also, checking the text with my anachronism filter cranked up; I noticed
some use of "cells" as in cellphones. The first is in chapter 1 (about a
third of the way in); Janna has just arrived at her stakeout position (a
duo of armed robbers have been hitting pharmacies; Janna is pretending
to be an employee at one):

At her tap on the window, the druggist inside, Noel Biederman, a trim
but balding fifties, nodded recognition and let you in. "Good morning,
Detective."
Though many business professionals wore visors similar to hers in lieu
of packet cells and slates for hands-free communication and tracking
office paperwork, on a druggist's clerk it looked suspiciously leo. So
she folded the visor and slipped it into a pocket of her cargo pants
while fishing the spindle of her slate from the tube packet. A pull on
the side tab unscrolled the screen, followed by a flip of her wrist to
snap the screen rigid. Pressing her thumb to the corner let the slate ID
her and activate, then bring up a keyboard where she typed in her
personal code linking the slate to department communications.

Again, perhaps a few missing commas. Is this her style or is it me?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
b***@dontspam.silent.com
2018-06-14 18:39:47 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:46:21 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:07:25 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
Comparing my copy to the Kindle edition on Amazon I would say the
Kindle has been completely rewritten.
Old version (look at paragraph 2)
-----------
CHAPTER ONE
<snip 1st paragraph>
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
The newscanner in the squadroom of the Shawnee County Police
Department's Crimes Against Persons squad
<snip of about 8 lines of text not in the e-book>
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
This morning,
however, every eye, in the squadroom stared at the set, morning and
day watches alike. The only sound in the room was the voice of KTNB's
voice-over announcer reading the text that rolled across the screen.
Newscanner becomes "vid screen" etc etc.
What about the text I was interested in? Here is a more extensive quote
"Because there's nothing to see. Memory totally purged ... disc wiped
beyond recovery. And did she make that dramatic!" He paused. "Hardy said
this was plugged into a computer where you found a body?"
Janna nodded. So this is what we'll see turning on that computer? Our
victim took the computer files with hem when he died?" Destroying
evidence, and himself. To her that said guilty conscience.
"Likely only those on the computer."
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean," Janna said.
Musa nodded. "Assuming your jon didn't try deleting that before
executing this baby."
"Could he?"
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all by the very e-savvy. Our data which
art in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
Then why wipe the computer? "Will the backup tell us which files have
been viewed when?"
"Only when they were last modified ... and maybe not the most recent
modifications if he wiped the memory before the next scheduled
auto-backup."
So maybe activity was what Kellener wanted to hide ... and in his state
of mind he forgot about the cloud.
And now that I typed out the above, I think some commas are missing.
Just how much of this is new?
Also, checking the text with my anachronism filter cranked up; I noticed
some use of "cells" as in cellphones. The first is in chapter 1 (about a
third of the way in); Janna has just arrived at her stakeout position (a
duo of armed robbers have been hitting pharmacies; Janna is pretending
At her tap on the window, the druggist inside, Noel Biederman, a trim
but balding fifties, nodded recognition and let you in. "Good morning,
Detective."
Though many business professionals wore visors similar to hers in lieu
of packet cells and slates for hands-free communication and tracking
office paperwork, on a druggist's clerk it looked suspiciously leo. So
she folded the visor and slipped it into a pocket of her cargo pants
while fishing the spindle of her slate from the tube packet. A pull on
the side tab unscrolled the screen, followed by a flip of her wrist to
snap the screen rigid. Pressing her thumb to the corner let the slate ID
her and activate, then bring up a keyboard where she typed in her
personal code linking the slate to department communications.
Again, perhaps a few missing commas. Is this her style or is it me?
Nothing even similar. These words DO NOT appear anywhere: "operating
system", Biederman, byte, cells (except as prison cell or cell block),
backup, executing (except as in killing a prisoner), computer memory,
BIOS. DOS, baby, ... the list goes on.
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-06-14 19:31:05 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
The original book not only doesn't have anything even close to 'the cloud', I don't think that it even had a computer tech named Reyal. I'm actually re-reading that book right now, and I have an original paperback edition, which I bought new in 1980 or 1981 at a B Dalton's in either the Chicago area or north-western Indiana, I can't remember which after all this time. I'll update if I find the name of the tech, but it looks to me as though there was a complete re-write sometime in the recent past.
Robert Carnegie
2018-06-14 20:33:44 UTC
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Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
(A Federal investigator is talking to both Brill and Maxwell when
reminded that the computer memory had been wiped)
I don't know if anybody here has a copy of the original paperback, but
if anyone does, could they check the original text to see of "cloud" was
there in the original (and if it didn't; I would like to know what was
there).
The original book not only doesn't have anything even close to 'the cloud', I don't think that it even had a computer tech named Reyal. I'm actually re-reading that book right now, and I have an original paperback edition, which I bought new in 1980 or 1981 at a B Dalton's in either the Chicago area or north-western Indiana, I can't remember which after all this time. I'll update if I find the name of the tech, but it looks to me as though there was a complete re-write sometime in the recent past.
That's not unprecedented in sci-fi. The King James Bible
and Frankenstein had substantial revisions. So did
The Carpet People.

As far as I remember, audience reaction depends a lot on
whether the original author or Eric Flint is involved.
Greg Goss
2018-06-15 13:32:58 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
I dislike attempts to "modernize" decades old science fiction stories. I
have just encountered an example of why I do. When I see references to
"the cloud" being used as data back up for a book published 3 decades
ago when reading an ebook edition that came out several years ago, I
find myself wondering if this was a "modernization" inspired by a minion
of The Deceiver. But, perhaps it is authentic.
The book in question is _The Doppelganger Gambit_ by Lee Killough.
References to "the cloud" appears twice. The first one is about the
"Not the backup in the cloud, you mean"
(Janna Brill, the protagonist is talking to Musa Reyal, a computer tech)
"We won't know until we reinstall his operating system and check. But
... the cloud tends to resist all the very e-savvy. Our data which art
in Heaven, forever live thy bytes."
"Not a problem. Once the operating system is reinstalled, the cloud
awaits me."
I remember the imagery of the cloud very early as a communication
pathway. You send the data towards the destination, and neither know
nor care how it gets there.

From my modern perspective, it's hard to say whether actually storing
stuff there is a big leap.

The concept of storing stuff there, though not the term itself, is
inherent in Vinge's True Names.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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