Discussion:
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
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James Nicoll
2017-04-27 12:09:13 UTC
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Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves

http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Steve Coltrin
2017-04-27 13:54:10 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
James Nicoll
2017-04-27 13:59:50 UTC
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Post by Steve Coltrin
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Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Juho Julkunen
2017-04-27 14:32:55 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
--
Juho Julkunen
Scott Lurndal
2017-04-27 14:37:47 UTC
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Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Tastes like chicken?
Peter Trei
2017-04-27 14:55:00 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Tastes like chicken?
This is a Canadian squirrel, I presume.
It was probably jaywalking.

pt
Gene Wirchenko
2017-04-30 18:10:40 UTC
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On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Tastes like chicken?
This is a Canadian squirrel, I presume.
It was probably jaywalking.
Canada is kinder and gentler than the U.S.A. The University of
Victoria has had (and possibly still has) problems with rabbits:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rabbits-causing-headaches-at-uvic-1.898894
Interesting quote: '"They [rabbits] actually kill trees that are
12 to 18 inches in diameter … "' (real, killer bunnies!)


http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-rabbit-problem-won-t-go-away-1.573431

http://www.rabbitadvocacy.com/hunting_uvic_rabbits_is_illegal.htm
Hilarious reading (or it will give you a stroke).

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 15:25:52 UTC
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Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all
that I took away from it is that it suffers more than usual
from Cherryh's opaque incluing habits. I do remember that
it's the book I was reading when I saw the campus police shoot
a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Squirrels can be very, very aggressive. (Especially if they're high
all the time because they live next door to a chemical plant and
crawl around on the bags of nasty chemicals, but that's a whole story
of its own.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-27 16:23:35 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all
that I took away from it is that it suffers more than usual
from Cherryh's opaque incluing habits. I do remember that
it's the book I was reading when I saw the campus police shoot
a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Squirrels can be very, very aggressive. (Especially if they're high
all the time because they live next door to a chemical plant and
crawl around on the bags of nasty chemicals, but that's a whole story
of its own.)
Or even if they're simply bold because people feed them.

On the UC Berkeley campus there's a lot of open space,* with
lawns and groves and Strawberry Creek running through the middle
of it, and the golden-brown fox squirrels living off the acorns
from the coast live oaks and the leavings of people who eat their
lunch outdoors, *and* the peanuts and things that people
deliberately bring to feed to them. They will come up very close
to you, if you've got something like food. Some of them will
actually venture close enough to take a peanut from your hand.

But watch out for your fingers, if they do. Hold the peanut by
its proximal end and let the squirrel grab the distal end,
because if it miscalculates and bites your fingers instead, it
won't care, but you will.

They are not tame. They are not domesticated. They're still
wild animals, but they're bold.

_____
*Less than there used to be, because the Regents keep building
new buildings; but nowadays they tend to buy up building sites in
the City of Berkeley and either take over existing buildings or
demolish them and build anew.

Which invites a certain degree of irony, because back in 1862 the
Morrill Land Grand Act enabled the Feds to donate large tracts of
land for the purpose of establishing colleges and universities.
What became the University of California (by the union of the
College of California and the Agricultural Mining and Mechanical
Arts College in 1868) took approximately half its land and sold
it to the private sector, which became the City of Berkeley.
Ever since, the University has been taking chunks of it back.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 18:27:01 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But watch out for your fingers, if they do. Hold the peanut by
its proximal end and let the squirrel grab the distal end,
because if it miscalculates and bites your fingers instead, it
won't care, but you will.
They are not tame. They are not domesticated. They're still
wild animals, but they're bold.
And they can carry rabies.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-27 19:19:24 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But watch out for your fingers, if they do. Hold the peanut by
its proximal end and let the squirrel grab the distal end,
because if it miscalculates and bites your fingers instead, it
won't care, but you will.
They are not tame. They are not domesticated. They're still
wild animals, but they're bold.
And they can carry rabies.
Yes; any mammal can. The likelihood that the ones on campus
carry rabies is low; ditto that they carry plague, though they
undoubtedly have fleas.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 20:35:31 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But watch out for your fingers, if they do. Hold the peanut by
its proximal end and let the squirrel grab the distal end,
because if it miscalculates and bites your fingers instead, it
won't care, but you will.
They are not tame. They are not domesticated. They're still
wild animals, but they're bold.
And they can carry rabies.
Yes; any mammal can. The likelihood that the ones on campus
carry rabies is low; ditto that they carry plague, though they
undoubtedly have fleas.
Low != none, however, and if the squirrel gets away, but was
exhibiting syptoms, well, the new rabies shots aren't as excrutiating
as the old ones, which were better than rabies, but only marginal,
but it's an experience most would prefer to avoid.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Peter Trei
2017-04-27 21:02:10 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But watch out for your fingers, if they do. Hold the peanut by
its proximal end and let the squirrel grab the distal end,
because if it miscalculates and bites your fingers instead, it
won't care, but you will.
They are not tame. They are not domesticated. They're still
wild animals, but they're bold.
And they can carry rabies.
Yes; any mammal can. The likelihood that the ones on campus
carry rabies is low; ditto that they carry plague, though they
undoubtedly have fleas.
Low != none, however, and if the squirrel gets away, but was
exhibiting syptoms, well, the new rabies shots aren't as excrutiating
as the old ones, which were better than rabies, but only marginal,
but it's an experience most would prefer to avoid.
Small mammals can carry rabies, but it runs through them fast.

Many years ago, we brought a small kitten into our home, and before it could
get its shots, a bat flew into the house... ...and the kitten 'played' with it
before it escaped.

We were worried about rabies, but not very.

The recommended solution was as follows: Lock the kitten in a room for 3 weeks,
to keep it away from our young children. I'd go in every day to play with it
for a while, but was careful not to get it anywhere near my face.

Rabies slowly migrates along nerves from the wound to the brain, and only
then causes problems. If the kitten was infected (unlikely but non-zero) it
would exhibit symptoms long before a bite on my extremities could transmit
the virus to my brain, and I could get vaccinated.

In the end, the kitten was fine (flying into a house isn't a sign of rabies
in bats - lying twitching on the ground is). I was fine. But the kitten never
recovered personality wise, and was not very friendly for the rest of her life.

[Before anyone asks why we didn't have the kitten tested, step 2 in the
testing procedure is 'Remove brain'.]

pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 21:16:18 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
[Before anyone asks why we didn't have the kitten tested, step 2
in the testing procedure is 'Remove brain'.]
Which is why, if someone suspected the squirrel might have had
rabies, it was shot.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Anthony Nance
2017-04-27 16:46:13 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all
that I took away from it is that it suffers more than usual
from Cherryh's opaque incluing habits. I do remember that
it's the book I was reading when I saw the campus police shoot
a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Squirrels can be very, very aggressive. (Especially if they're high
all the time because they live next door to a chemical plant and
crawl around on the bags of nasty chemicals, but that's a whole story
of its own.)
They can also be nuisances - the last major power outage
here was started by a squirrel who had slipped through[1]
the various defenses of our local power station.

Tony
[1] Of course - they're geniuses in this way.
l***@dimnakorr.com
2017-04-27 18:13:43 UTC
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Post by Anthony Nance
the last major power outage
here was started by a squirrel who had slipped through[1]
the various defenses of our local power station.
Cue 'Mission Impossible' theme.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 18:28:47 UTC
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Post by Anthony Nance
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and
all that I took away from it is that it suffers more than
usual from Cherryh's opaque incluing habits. I do remember
that it's the book I was reading when I saw the campus
police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
It was resisting arrest?
Squirrels can be very, very aggressive. (Especially if they're
high all the time because they live next door to a chemical
plant and crawl around on the bags of nasty chemicals, but
that's a whole story of its own.)
They can also be nuisances - the last major power outage
here was started by a squirrel who had slipped through[1]
the various defenses of our local power station.
Tony
[1] Of course - they're geniuses in this way.
The cleverness of squirrels at getting at bird feeders is
legendary.

Though, apparently, putting a slinky around the pole is pretty
effective.


--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Anthony Nance
2017-04-27 15:04:52 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
Might have been this one:
http://tinyurl.com/kf3b2ue

(yes, safe for work)
Steve Coltrin
2017-04-27 17:25:05 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
I was too far away to ask, but I suspect they suspected it was rabid.
If they had some campus de-squirrelling agenda, it was nowhere near
successful.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
David Mitchell
2017-04-28 04:40:24 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Why would they shoot a squirrel?
Was it black?
Lynn McGuire
2017-04-27 21:55:28 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
The only one of those I've even _read_ is the Cherryh, and all that I took
away from it is that it suffers more than usual from Cherryh's opaque
incluing habits. I do remember that it's the book I was reading when I
saw the campus police shoot a squirrel.
Squirrel is good eating. Tastes like chicken dark meat. And is a good
way to supplement chicken if you are short on meat. My grandmother
could dress a squirrel in 30 seconds or less and have it in the frying pan.

Lynn
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 15:24:43 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How many of
these authors have served in the military?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Stephen Graham
2017-04-27 23:20:34 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How many of
these authors have served in the military?
I think three: Dickson, McDonald, and Moon.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-04-27 23:49:15 UTC
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Post by Stephen Graham
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF
Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How
many of these authors have served in the military?
I think three: Dickson, McDonald, and Moon.
I don't think I've ever read the first two. Moon has never been my
cup of tea.

My "must read" list for milSF stars with David Drake.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Woodward
2017-04-28 04:50:06 UTC
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Post by Stephen Graham
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How many of
these authors have served in the military?
I think three: Dickson, McDonald, and Moon.
I have found several statements that Elizabeth Ann Scarborough was a
military nurse in Vietnam.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
J. Clarke
2017-04-28 09:01:40 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Stephen Graham
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How many of
these authors have served in the military?
I think three: Dickson, McDonald, and Moon.
I have found several statements that Elizabeth Ann Scarborough was a
military nurse in Vietnam.
She says the Army paid for nursing school, then she paid them back with
three years of service, much of which was spent in Da Nang.
David Goldfarb
2017-04-29 13:11:43 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Woodward
I have found several statements that Elizabeth Ann Scarborough was a
military nurse in Vietnam.
She says the Army paid for nursing school, then she paid them back with
three years of service, much of which was spent in Da Nang.
_The Healer's War_ very obviously draws on lived experience.
--
David Goldfarb |"THEY ZONKED ME WITH ELECTRONIC SHOCK WAVES,
***@gmail.com | I TELL YOU!!!"
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- _Prez_ #2
Lynn McGuire
2017-04-27 21:51:10 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I am curious, but not curious enough to do the research: How many of
these authors have served in the military?
Elizabeth Moon was in the Marine Corps for three years according to her bio.
https://www.amazon.com/Elizabeth-Moon/e/B000APWQCA/

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-27 17:26:48 UTC
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For reasons of your own, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_
is denied recognition.
Lynn McGuire
2017-04-27 21:53:25 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
For reasons of your own, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_
is denied recognition.
Huh ? Is it a Baen book ?

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-28 20:09:30 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
For reasons of your own, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_
is denied recognition.
Huh ? Is it a Baen book ?
Well, it's out of copyright so it may be in
any Free Library...

I hesitate to call it overlooked, although
I think Judy Garland didn't film it.
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-28 20:53:23 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
For reasons of your own, _The Marvelous Land of Oz_
is denied recognition.
Huh ? Is it a Baen book ?
Well, it's out of copyright so it may be in
any Free Library...
I hesitate to call it overlooked, although
I think Judy Garland didn't film it.
What eventually did get filmed was _Return to Oz_,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089908/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

which was a rather good amalgamation of books two and three, _The
Marvelous Land of Oz_ and _Ozma of Oz._ It was definitely a
sequel to the movie (drawing on chosen elmeents from the books),
in that various personages in Oz were based on people in Kansas.

Particularly delightful: a young Brian Henson voicing (and
helping to move) Jack Pumpkinhead. Such a nice kid -- both of
them.

Unfortunately, the producer in charge of it quit before it was
done, and while somebody else finished it eventually, Disney
didn't spend much on advertising it and it wasn't successful.

You can find it on DVD, and all you have to do is skip over the
introduction with Fairuza Balk, who had played Dorothy. She was
a cute kid as a child. She was Lena the Hyena as a young adult.
Fortunately, IMDB's stock picture of her shows that she's grown
up into a not unattractive adult.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Carl Fink
2017-04-27 18:24:53 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I think only about half of these are even SF, much less military.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
David Goldfarb
2017-04-29 13:08:56 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I think only about half of these are even SF, much less military.
Which of them is not speculative fiction? I seem to recall that even
_The Healer's War_ has fantasy elements. Which of them does not
centrally involve serving in the military?
--
David Goldfarb |
***@gmail.com | [This space intentionally left blank.]
***@ocf.berkeley.edu |
Carl Fink
2017-04-30 02:29:31 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I think only about half of these are even SF, much less military.
Which of them is not speculative fiction? I seem to recall that even
_The Healer's War_ has fantasy elements. Which of them does not
centrally involve serving in the military?
I don't acknowledge the bastardization of the perfectly good initialism "SF"
as meaning anything other than "Science Fiction".

More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
David Goldfarb
2017-04-30 03:03:23 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I think only about half of these are even SF, much less military.
Which of them is not speculative fiction? I seem to recall that even
_The Healer's War_ has fantasy elements. Which of them does not
centrally involve serving in the military?
I don't acknowledge the bastardization of the perfectly good initialism "SF"
as meaning anything other than "Science Fiction".
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
--
David Goldfarb |"The number of times I have been declared
***@gmail.com |dead is statistically insignificant,
***@ocf.berkeley.edu |although admittedly non-zero." -- James Nicoll
Carl Fink
2017-04-30 12:18:22 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
You don't see the above quote as admitting I should have caught that?
Because that's what I meant.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-30 12:55:41 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
You don't see the above quote as admitting I should have caught that?
Because that's what I meant.
--
On the other hand, James then recommends the books
to "Every True SF Fan".

But he said "Speculative Fiction" first.
Without mentioning the delightful land of Oz,
however. So I did.
James Nicoll
2017-04-30 19:30:18 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Carl Fink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
You don't see the above quote as admitting I should have caught that?
Because that's what I meant.
--
On the other hand, James then recommends the books
to "Every True SF Fan".
But he said "Speculative Fiction" first.
Without mentioning the delightful land of Oz,
however. So I did.
Aside from kids adaptations, like the LP, I don't think I have
encountered Oz.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2017-04-30 22:01:14 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Aside from kids adaptations, like the LP, I don't think I have
encountered Oz.
Martin Gardner's ghost just did a spit take.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
David DeLaney
2017-05-05 12:26:33 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Aside from kids adaptations, like the LP, I don't think I have
encountered Oz.
Martin Gardner's ghost just did a spit take.
*blink*

Project Gutenberg has all 14 originals, and I think a scattered couple of
the rest of the 40. (Plus a couple of terrible self-published type ones.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2017-05-05 13:12:09 UTC
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Post by David DeLaney
Post by Carl Fink
Post by James Nicoll
Aside from kids adaptations, like the LP, I don't think I have
encountered Oz.
Martin Gardner's ghost just did a spit take.
*blink*
Project Gutenberg has all 14 originals, and I think a scattered couple of
the rest of the 40.
The original Baum 14, certainly. And I reviewed them all in detail on
my site.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
David Goldfarb
2017-05-01 04:58:39 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
You don't see the above quote as admitting I should have caught that?
Because that's what I meant.
No, that interpretation didn't occur to me.
--
David Goldfarb |"English cuisine is the cuisine of fear."
***@gmail.com |
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Andrew Conway
Carl Fink
2017-05-01 13:23:10 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Carl Fink
More accurately, that never occurred to me because I always see "SFF" used
when the writer intends to include fantasy.
But both the thread title and the part you quoted specifically *say*
"speculative fiction books". You are having to collapse that to SF
and then re-expand it incorrectly in order to make your complaint.
You don't see the above quote as admitting I should have caught that?
Because that's what I meant.
No, that interpretation didn't occur to me.
A touch, I do confess't.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Quadibloc
2017-04-27 19:42:58 UTC
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My, Gordon R. Dickson was born in Edmonton, Alberta!

I looked him up to verify that this was not the pen name of a female author, given
the pattern of these lists.

John Savard
Garrett Wollman
2017-04-27 20:18:03 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
David DeLaney
2017-04-28 01:44:01 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.

Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Chris Buckley
2017-04-28 05:29:54 UTC
Permalink
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Post by David DeLaney
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.
Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
I think I'm under half for the first time (I have 9 of them on my
shelves. I really expected to have the Nagata, since I have a lot by
her, but not this one evidently. Ordered.) The only book that I
consider excellent of those I've read is _The King's Peace_ by Walton,
though several others are reasonable.

I do object to the Yoon Ha Lee, unless James has a pre-print of a book
coming out that I haven't heard about. It's a short story in the form
I've seen it in. James: what's your definition of "book"?

_Naked to the Stars_ seems like a really, really strange choice for
Dickson (who was male when I had dinner with him 40 years ago!) It's
a minor book; I know of no significance or influence of it on the
field. Dickson probably has at least half-a-dozen books that fit the
category and did have an impact on the field (the _Dorsai_ books in
particular). Dickson was a favorite of mine for years; I have at
least 40 of his books.

Chris
James Nicoll
2017-04-28 11:08:07 UTC
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Post by David DeLaney
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.
Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
I don't know why people keep insisting these lists are all men: just
off the top of my head, Dickson, Lee and Tanaka are men.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Magewolf
2017-04-28 19:34:27 UTC
Permalink
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.
Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
I don't know why people keep insisting these lists are all men: just
off the top of my head, Dickson, Lee and Tanaka are men.
I have to applaud James. This time around all the books that I have
read of this list or that I can find info about seem to be speculative
fiction with at least some tangential relation to the military. That
makes it a vast improvement over the last two.
Lynn McGuire
2017-04-28 20:32:44 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Magewolf
Post by James Nicoll
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.
Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
I don't know why people keep insisting these lists are all men: just
off the top of my head, Dickson, Lee and Tanaka are men.
I have to applaud James. This time around all the books that I have
read of this list or that I can find info about seem to be speculative
fiction with at least some tangential relation to the military. That
makes it a vast improvement over the last two.
I noted that James was careful to use the "military speculative fiction"
term instead of "military science fiction" as a couple of the books are
obviously fantasy.

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-28 20:54:51 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Magewolf
Post by James Nicoll
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should
Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have read exactly one of these (the Walton, of course) -- which
seems to be about par for me with James's "twenty core" lists.
I think I've read four or so; they were all good books to read, though.
Dave, and I -also- never knew Gordon was a woman? Like Samus!
I don't know why people keep insisting these lists are all men: just
off the top of my head, Dickson, Lee and Tanaka are men.
I have to applaud James. This time around all the books that I have
read of this list or that I can find info about seem to be speculative
fiction with at least some tangential relation to the military. That
makes it a vast improvement over the last two.
I noted that James was careful to use the "military speculative fiction"
term instead of "military science fiction" as a couple of the books are
obviously fantasy.
I generally don't read milsf, so I didn't recognize any of the titles.
Was the series with the Napoleonic Wars with dragons anywhere on
the list?

/wince
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2017-04-28 22:15:26 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I generally don't read milsf, so I didn't recognize any of the titles.
Was the series with the Napoleonic Wars with dragons anywhere on
the list?
Yes, "His Majesty's Dragon" by Naomi Novik was included.

John Savard
Dan Tilque
2017-04-29 07:33:57 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I generally don't read milsf, so I didn't recognize any of the titles.
I figure you'd at least have heard of the Dickson, if not read it. It's
one of two on the list that I've read.
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Was the series with the Napoleonic Wars with dragons anywhere on
the list?
Yes, "His Majesty's Dragon" by Naomi Novik was included.
That's the other one. I was inspired to write a haiku about it, for some
reason. Never done that before or since.
--
Dan Tilque
Anthony Nance
2017-05-01 13:47:00 UTC
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Post by Dan Tilque
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I generally don't read milsf, so I didn't recognize any of the titles.
I figure you'd at least have heard of the Dickson, if not read it. It's
one of two on the list that I've read.
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Was the series with the Napoleonic Wars with dragons anywhere on
the list?
Yes, "His Majesty's Dragon" by Naomi Novik was included.
That's the other one. I was inspired to write a haiku about it, for some
reason. Never done that before or since.
Share haiku?
Dan Tilque
2017-05-02 09:34:50 UTC
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Post by Anthony Nance
Post by Dan Tilque
Post by Quadibloc
Yes, "His Majesty's Dragon" by Naomi Novik was included.
That's the other one. I was inspired to write a haiku about it, for some
reason. Never done that before or since.
Share haiku?
I don't remember it exactly. I did post it here at the time, but that
was maybe 10 years ago. Let's see if I can find it on the Infobahn.

f/x :googling:

Nope, sorry, can't find it. I do remember the last line was "Sea captain
impressed." and the last word had at least three meanings.
--
Dan Tilque
Anthony Nance
2017-05-02 17:09:36 UTC
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Post by Dan Tilque
Post by Anthony Nance
Post by Dan Tilque
Post by Quadibloc
Yes, "His Majesty's Dragon" by Naomi Novik was included.
That's the other one. I was inspired to write a haiku about it, for some
reason. Never done that before or since.
Share haiku?
I don't remember it exactly. I did post it here at the time, but that
was maybe 10 years ago. Let's see if I can find it on the Infobahn.
Nope, sorry, can't find it. I do remember the last line was "Sea captain
impressed." and the last word had at least three meanings.
No worries - thanks for checking. Creating haikus can be a fun
distraction[1].

Tony
[1] But not for long nowadays(for me)
David Johnston
2017-04-27 21:31:19 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
James Nicoll
2017-04-27 22:22:32 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-28 04:27:26 UTC
Permalink
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?

I hesitate to refer to
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_James_Napier#Service_in_India>
in case I am in the same position as a modern German
quoting a very funny joke of Hitler's about
his massacres.

But after all if we're starting with Julius Caesar -
the man who said, "Infamy! Infamy! They've all
got it in for me!" -
James Nicoll
2017-04-29 16:30:48 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....

In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2017-04-29 19:21:16 UTC
Permalink
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
Well, I can take a pretty good guess. Caesar, nobody's fool,
would send somebody ELSE up in it to scout the enemy's position,
which is what they were used for in the early days of WWI.
(Sending them up to drop things that went bang came later, and I
don't THINK Caesar had anything like that.*)

Dollars to doughnuts, the guy would've crashed within the first
coulple minutes, bringing no intelligence back, and history
would've proceeded as before.

Now, "Hawk Among the Sparrows" arrived at WWI with its pilot, so
there was some history-changing potential there. I forget
whether he did; it's been a long time.

Give me _Lest Darkness Fall_ any day.

______
*Addendum: Hal just suggested Greek fire. So I googled a bit and
found this:

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2009/02/11/greek-fire/

which seems to indicate that Greek fire (in semisolid form) was
used around 400 BCE, thrown by catapults, which didn't aim very
well, and went out of use; and then was revived in liquid form
(raw petroleum), administered by shipboard tanks and pumps, in
673 CE. So it existed *before* and *after* Caesar's day, but not
during.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-29 22:18:51 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
And at least one long, very straight road?
Can do.

Barra Airport in Scotland uses the island
beach as the runways.

An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?

I've read most of the "Biggles" First World War
stories, so I know at least as much as Snoopy did
about Sopwith Camels.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Well, I can take a pretty good guess. Caesar, nobody's fool,
would send somebody ELSE up in it to scout the enemy's position,
which is what they were used for in the early days of WWI.
(Sending them up to drop things that went bang came later, and I
don't THINK Caesar had anything like that.*)
Dollars to doughnuts, the guy would've crashed within the first
coulple minutes, bringing no intelligence back, and history
would've proceeded as before.
Now, "Hawk Among the Sparrows" arrived at WWI with its pilot, so
there was some history-changing potential there. I forget
whether he did; it's been a long time.
Give me _Lest Darkness Fall_ any day.
______
*Addendum: Hal just suggested Greek fire. So I googled a bit and
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2009/02/11/greek-fire/
which seems to indicate that Greek fire (in semisolid form) was
used around 400 BCE, thrown by catapults, which didn't aim very
well, and went out of use; and then was revived in liquid form
(raw petroleum), administered by shipboard tanks and pumps, in
673 CE. So it existed *before* and *after* Caesar's day, but not
during.
Didn't the Romans frighten Hannibal's elephants
with greased pigs set on fire and running around?

Pigs might fly...
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-29 23:08:30 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With
Aircraft
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
And at least one long, very straight road?
Can do.
Barra Airport in Scotland uses the island
beach as the runways.
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2017-04-29 23:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With
Aircraft
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
And at least one long, very straight road?
Can do.
Barra Airport in Scotland uses the island
beach as the runways.
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-04-29 23:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I
always find
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With
Aircraft
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
And at least one long, very straight road?
Can do.
Barra Airport in Scotland uses the island
beach as the runways.
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Yes, but "lashed to a kite". We're not talking a platform with any kind
of stability. I doubt you could write even with a ballpoint under those
circumstances.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2017-04-29 23:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I
always find
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With
Aircraft
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
And at least one long, very straight road?
Can do.
Barra Airport in Scotland uses the island
beach as the runways.
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Yes, but "lashed to a kite". We're not talking a platform with any kind
of stability. I doubt you could write even with a ballpoint under those
circumstances.
I think you might want to do a little research on the use of kites in
warfare. I think you are imagining something other than what was used.
Greg Goss
2017-05-01 02:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
h***@gmail.com
2017-05-01 03:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
charcoal can work o.k...
Dimensional Traveler
2017-05-01 03:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
charcoal can work o.k...
Small tags with pre-carved coded messages that can be hooked onto the
line and slide down to the ground. One tag for size of enemy force, one
for what direction, one for distance, one for what they are doing or
direction they are headed.
--
Some days you just don't have enough middle fingers!
Gene Wirchenko
2017-05-02 04:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 20:38:54 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<***@sonic.net> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Small tags with pre-carved coded messages that can be hooked onto the
line and slide down to the ground. One tag for size of enemy force, one
for what direction, one for distance, one for what they are doing or
direction they are headed.
Or that are colour-coded. Or both.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Dimensional Traveler
2017-05-02 05:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 20:38:54 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
[snip]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Small tags with pre-carved coded messages that can be hooked onto the
line and slide down to the ground. One tag for size of enemy force, one
for what direction, one for distance, one for what they are doing or
direction they are headed.
Or that are colour-coded. Or both.
I didn't specify the method of coding, so yes, color can be part of it. :)
--
Some days you just don't have enough middle fingers!
J. Clarke
2017-05-01 10:33:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.

And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Robert Carnegie
2017-05-01 20:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.

How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
J. Clarke
2017-05-02 00:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
So? Military observers suspended from kites predate biplanes.
Post by Robert Carnegie
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
One only needs ciphers if there is a reasonable chance of the message being
intercepted and its interception will be beneficial to the enemy. "Enemy
force to the north" is of little benefit to the enemy force to the north.
h***@gmail.com
2017-05-02 00:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
So? Military observers suspended from kites predate biplanes.
Post by Robert Carnegie
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
One only needs ciphers if there is a reasonable chance of the message being
intercepted and its interception will be beneficial to the enemy. "Enemy
force to the north" is of little benefit to the enemy force to the north.
Except that it tells them that your force is to their south...
Moriarty
2017-05-02 00:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
So? Military observers suspended from kites predate biplanes.
Post by Robert Carnegie
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
One only needs ciphers if there is a reasonable chance of the message being
intercepted and its interception will be beneficial to the enemy. "Enemy
force to the north" is of little benefit to the enemy force to the north.
Except that it tells them that your force is to their south...
...and that you know where they are.

-Moriarty
Robert Carnegie
2017-05-02 07:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Moriarty
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
So? Military observers suspended from kites predate biplanes.
Post by Robert Carnegie
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
One only needs ciphers if there is a reasonable chance of the message being
intercepted and its interception will be beneficial to the enemy. "Enemy
force to the north" is of little benefit to the enemy force to the north.
Except that it tells them that your force is to their south...
...and that you know where they are.
But not if they have captured the message.
That's a benefit of shooting it down the kite rope,
if we're doing the kite. You know where it lands.
m***@sky.com
2017-05-02 04:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
Mentally challenged rebels might revert to even simpler codes. How about "One if by land, two if by sea?" :-)
Jack Bohn
2017-05-02 15:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Why not? Papyrus and parchment had been around for a couple of thousand
years when Caesar came along. What do you think burned in the Library at
Alexandria?
Inkpots are a pain in a jerky system like a kite.
Who needs inkpots? The Romans knew how to use lead (not graphite) to make
a writing instrument and there was also the wax tablet, which could easily
have a ring attached to ride down the tether.
And you are also making assumptions about what constitutes a "kite" that
are likely not valid.
Well, we started out with a biplane.
How about secure communication? I wonder
about the mental challenge of flying an
aeroplane /and/ composing a message in
Caesar's cipher. Suredeob sudqj wkh
edoob nlwh, zkdw. ;-)
Mentally challenged rebels might revert to even simpler codes. How about "One if by land, two if by sea?" :-)
"... three if by air, pi if they come boiling out of a dimensional vortex."
--
-Jack
Steve Coltrin
2017-05-01 23:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
begin fnord
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Robert Carnegie
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Well, from a kite, it's easy. You just drop messages in some sort of
carrier that slides down the rope. Mind you, I don't think writing
with Roman tech would be easy lashed to a kite, but there are workaronds
for that.
Now I'm imagining Inca kite observers, quickly knotting together quipus
with a loop around the rope.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Carl Fink
2017-04-30 02:32:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Shout.

Biplanes fly slowly and not that loudly (especially if you throttle the
engine back), and there's no cockpit.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Dimensional Traveler
2017-04-30 03:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Carnegie
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Shout.
Biplanes fly slowly and not that loudly (especially if you throttle the
engine back), and there's no cockpit.
Excuse me, "no cockpit"? No canopy, yes, but they still have cockpits.
--
Some days you just don't have enough middle fingers!
news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
2017-04-30 09:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Robert Carnegie
An aerial view of the battlefield could be useful
(the Chinese had kites[?]), but how to communicate
quickly? Something like the way bees dance to
say where the nectar is?
Shout.
Biplanes fly slowly and not that loudly (especially if you throttle the
engine back), and there's no cockpit.
Excuse me, "no cockpit"? No canopy, yes, but they still have cockpits.
I think a;; WWI ones diod but there is the Wright Flyer which has no
cockpit
--
Mark
Default User
2017-04-29 22:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Now, "Hawk Among the Sparrows" arrived at WWI with its pilot, so
there was some history-changing potential there. I forget
whether he did; it's been a long time.
It's been a long time, but as I recall after several frustrating attempts to use the plane's weapons in combat, the pilot ends up using shock waves to wipe out a squadron of the enemy. Unfortunately one of the engines inhales some debris, so it goes down and he bails out.


Brian
Don Kuenz
2017-05-01 02:54:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan
Should Have On Their Shelves
Post by James Nicoll
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
I have an issue with the "His Majesty's Dragon" setting. I always find
it way too weird when you add just one physics defying species and
nothing else making use of the same reality loopholes.
I complained when I got my copy of this that Veni, Veci, Vedi With Aircraft
was supposed to be a joke and I did think the wheels basically fell off
the setting the more the author explored it. Nevertheless, could not
put this specific book down.
Btw, not, "Veni, vidi, vici"?
I always get it wrong....
In Westlake's God Save the Mark, the world's most gullible man is
approached by a would be novelist whose Big Idea is to see what
would happen if Caesar (I think) had a biplane at one of his big
battles. Not the infrastructure needed to create the plane, mind
you. Just the plane.
"The Time Valve" (Breur, 1930) flies a plane into the future. The time
travelers discover Chicago in ruins, with piles of sand where buildings
once stood. The travelers eventually sleuth out that one futuristic
radio-active bomb leveled Chicago and left it bathed in radiation. Every
ten thousand years the radiation decreases by half. All of those story
elements were published fifteen years before Uncle Sam vaporized
Hiroshima.

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Lynn McGuire
2017-04-27 21:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Core Military Speculative Fiction Books Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-milsf
Congratulations, I think that I have only read three of these. And, _A
Soldier’s Duty_ by Jean Johnson is one of my favorite books. I need to
read it again (twice already).

Lynn
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