Discussion:
A Child's Eye View of the Apocalypse (Or thereafter)
(too old to reply)
a***@yahoo.com
2018-03-17 13:38:03 UTC
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Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler

What other similar stories can be recommended?
James Nicoll
2018-03-17 13:56:59 UTC
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In article <47d1b61c-2aca-47f1-bf2d-***@googlegroups.com>,
***@yahoo.com <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>
>What other similar stories can be recommended?

"I Am Nothing" by Eric Frank Russell.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ahasuerus
2018-03-17 14:16:56 UTC
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On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 9:38:07 AM UTC-4, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>
> What other similar stories can be recommended?

David R. Palmer's _Emergence_
(1984, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2016) or at least its
first half, which was first published in 1981.
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-18 03:02:50 UTC
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On 3/17/2018 9:16 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 9:38:07 AM UTC-4, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>
>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>
> David R. Palmer's _Emergence_
> (1984, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2016) or at least its
> first half, which was first published in 1981.

+1

Lynn
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-03-17 15:51:52 UTC
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On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 06:38:03 -0700 (PDT), "***@yahoo.com"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>
>What other similar stories can be recommended?

Z for Zachariah, Robert O'Brien (plus wife Sally and daughter Jane, a
posthumous collaborative finish and release). It's barely related to the
recent movie so don't let that put anyone off. There was an 80s TV
version (I think) that was far better.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-18 20:37:28 UTC
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On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>
> What other similar stories can be recommended?

What is your definition of a child ?

_Summer of the Apocalypse_ by James Van Pelt (15 year old deals with
global plague)
https://www.amazon.com/Summer-Apocalypse-James-Van-Pelt/dp/0974657387/

_The Girl at the End of the World_ by Richard Levesque
https://www.amazon.com/Girl-at-End-World/dp/1491276932/

_The Girl With All the Gifts_ by M. R. Carey
https://www.amazon.com/Girl-All-Gifts-M-Carey/dp/0316334758/

Lynn
Anthony Nance
2018-03-19 14:10:01 UTC
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Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>
>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>
> What is your definition of a child ?

Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
and Maze Runner.

Also:
- "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison

- _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.

- _Empty World_ by John Christopher

- How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?

- _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham

Tony
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-19 17:28:18 UTC
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On 3/19/2018 9:10 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>
>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>
>> What is your definition of a child ?
>
> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
> and Maze Runner.
>
> Also:
> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>
> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>
> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>
> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>
> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
>
> Tony

I loved _A Boy and His Dog_ as a teen. Now, not so much.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-03-20 00:26:00 UTC
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
(Anthony Nance) wrote:

>Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>
>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>
>> What is your definition of a child ?
>
>Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>and Maze Runner.

And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
"children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>
>Also:
>- "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>
>- _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>
>- _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>
>- How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>
>- _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
>
>Tony
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-20 00:47:26 UTC
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On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>
>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>
>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>
>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>
>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>> and Maze Runner.
>
> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.

But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-03-20 01:47:34 UTC
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>>
>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>
>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>
>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>
>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>> and Maze Runner.
>>
>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>
>But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.

Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-20 17:44:24 UTC
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On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
>>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>>
>>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>>> and Maze Runner.
>>>
>>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
>>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
>>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>>
>> But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.
>
> Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.

Smoking is still 18 as far as I know. When my son was in Uncle Sam's
Misguided Children, he smoked and all of his buddies smoked. I'll bet
that half of the USMC guys smoked when I visited him in 29 Palms.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-03-21 00:52:14 UTC
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:44:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
>>>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>>>> and Maze Runner.
>>>>
>>>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
>>>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
>>>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>>>
>>> But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.
>>
>> Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.
>
>Smoking is still 18 as far as I know. When my son was in Uncle Sam's
>Misguided Children, he smoked and all of his buddies smoked. I'll bet
>that half of the USMC guys smoked when I visited him in 29 Palms.

Well dang, you're right, I'm glad that there's _one_ vice that they
haven't messed with yet. Although good luck finding a place where
it's legal to smoke these days.
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-21 01:27:31 UTC
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On 3/20/2018 7:52 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:44:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
>>>>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>>>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>>>>> and Maze Runner.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
>>>>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
>>>>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>>>>
>>>> But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.
>>>
>>> Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.
>>
>> Smoking is still 18 as far as I know. When my son was in Uncle Sam's
>> Misguided Children, he smoked and all of his buddies smoked. I'll bet
>> that half of the USMC guys smoked when I visited him in 29 Palms.
>
> Well dang, you're right, I'm glad that there's _one_ vice that they
> haven't messed with yet. Although good luck finding a place where
> it's legal to smoke these days.

Yup. I even banned vaping in my office building. Some of that stuff
has a very nasty smell.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-03-21 02:45:52 UTC
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 20:27:31 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/20/2018 7:52 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:44:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
>>>>>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>>>>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>>>>>> and Maze Runner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
>>>>>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
>>>>>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
>>>>>
>>>>> But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.
>>>>
>>>> Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.
>>>
>>> Smoking is still 18 as far as I know. When my son was in Uncle Sam's
>>> Misguided Children, he smoked and all of his buddies smoked. I'll bet
>>> that half of the USMC guys smoked when I visited him in 29 Palms.
>>
>> Well dang, you're right, I'm glad that there's _one_ vice that they
>> haven't messed with yet. Although good luck finding a place where
>> it's legal to smoke these days.
>
>Yup. I even banned vaping in my office building. Some of that stuff
>has a very nasty smell.

At work any kind of nicotine is banned on the property. People have
to go outside the gate and down the street a ways to smoke (note--it's
a _large_ property--the perimeter's about a mile and a half).
Kevrob
2018-03-21 22:32:01 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:27:35 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
e days.
>
> Yup. I even banned vaping in my office building. Some of that stuff
> has a very nasty smell.


I hope you left some space on the property where people trying
to quit tobacco can vape. I've know several folks who have been
able to quit going that route.

https://www.theregreview.org/2017/03/13/sugarman-encourage-vaping-help-reduce-smoking/

Really Stupid Govt Regulations Dept:

Jurisdictions who treat vaping as equivalent to smoking under
their "can't smoke here" laws, because the beadles would be
faked out when trying to enforce the no-smoking ban. Result?
"Might as well smoke the real stuff" would be one.

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-22 01:49:28 UTC
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On 3/21/2018 5:32 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:27:35 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> e days.
>>
>> Yup. I even banned vaping in my office building. Some of that stuff
>> has a very nasty smell.
>
>
> I hope you left some space on the property where people trying
> to quit tobacco can vape. I've know several folks who have been
> able to quit going that route.
>
> https://www.theregreview.org/2017/03/13/sugarman-encourage-vaping-help-reduce-smoking/
>
> Really Stupid Govt Regulations Dept:
>
> Jurisdictions who treat vaping as equivalent to smoking under
> their "can't smoke here" laws, because the beadles would be
> faked out when trying to enforce the no-smoking ban. Result?
> "Might as well smoke the real stuff" would be one.
>
> Kevin R

Outside. I've got 14 acres, that should be enough.

Lynn
Kevrob
2018-03-21 22:26:05 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:44:32 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:47:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> > <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/19/2018 7:26 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:10:01 -0000 (UTC), ***@math.ohio-state.edu
> >>> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> >>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> >>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
> >>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
> >>>> and Maze Runner.
> >>>
> >>> And this gets to one of my pet peeves. People go on about "children"
> >>> committing crimes and whatnot when the stats show that most of the
> >>> "children" are old enough to vote and serve in the military.
> >>
> >> But not old enough to drink beer or buy a handgun.
> >
> > Or smoke after screwing a whore in a far off place.
>
> Smoking is still 18 as far as I know. When my son was in Uncle Sam's
> Misguided Children, he smoked and all of his buddies smoked. I'll bet
> that half of the USMC guys smoked when I visited him in 29 Palms.
>
> Lynn

If the busybodydogooders get their way, 18 will be 21.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_21

Neoprohibitionism, bit by bit, rather than all at once, just as has
been the case with alcohol.

I don't smoke, BTW. I dabbled ever so-slightly in cigar smoking
from my high school and college days, and a bit when I was older,
but I never committed to it, and that particular pleasure/vice
has slipped away from me. Having been "weaned" on cigar and pipe
tobacco, every one of the few cigarettes I ever tried tasted
comparatively awful. and I never learned how to inhale the stuff.

Kevin R
Anthony Nance
2018-03-20 13:06:28 UTC
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Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>
>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>
>> What is your definition of a child ?
>
> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
> and Maze Runner.
>
> Also:
> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>
> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>
> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>
> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>
> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham

It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).

Tony
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-20 16:12:59 UTC
Permalink
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On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>
>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>
>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>
>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>> and Maze Runner.
>>
>> Also:
>> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>>
>> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
>> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>>
>> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>>
>> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>>
>> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
>
> It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
> Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).
>
> Tony

Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.

The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"

As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
do they?"
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/

Lynn
Peter Trei
2018-03-20 18:53:03 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> > Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> >>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> >>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
> >>>>
> >>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
> >>>
> >>> What is your definition of a child ?
> >>
> >> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
> >> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
> >> and Maze Runner.
> >>
> >> Also:
> >> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
> >>
> >> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
> >> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
> >>
> >> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
> >>
> >> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
> >>
> >> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
> >
> > It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
> > Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).
> >
> > Tony
>
> Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
> war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
> two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
> detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
>
> The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
> of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
> mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
> of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
>
> As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
> do they?"
> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/

Haven't read it.

I'll note that, even today, the overall population density is 85 people/sq
mile. Even dropping Alaska wouldn't raise it by that much.

The only states with > 1000/sqm are Rhode Island and New Jersey, along with
DC. So offices and factories can still draw on the same base population as
before, just the commutes get longer.

However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
Luddite.

This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-20 21:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 3/20/2018 1:53 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>>>
>>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>>>> and Maze Runner.
>>>>
>>>> Also:
>>>> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>>>>
>>>> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
>>>> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>>>>
>>>> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>>>>
>>>> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>>>>
>>>> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
>>>
>>> It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
>>> Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).
>>>
>>> Tony
>>
>> Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
>> war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
>> two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
>> detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
>>
>> The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
>> of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
>> mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
>> of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
>>
>> As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
>> do they?"
>> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/
>
> Haven't read it.
>
> I'll note that, even today, the overall population density is 85 people/sq
> mile. Even dropping Alaska wouldn't raise it by that much.
>
> The only states with > 1000/sqm are Rhode Island and New Jersey, along with
> DC. So offices and factories can still draw on the same base population as
> before, just the commutes get longer.
>
> However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
> been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
> Luddite.
>
> This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
> by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
> the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.
>
> pt

I suspect that the old rule, "if the USA has a cold, the rest of the
world gets pneumonia" applies here. In other words, if the USA survives
a nuclear exchange, the other parties are non-existent now.

Lynn
Peter Trei
2018-03-20 21:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:14:36 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/20/2018 1:53 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> >>> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> >>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> >>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
> >>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
> >>>> and Maze Runner.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also:
> >>>> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
> >>>>
> >>>> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
> >>>> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
> >>>>
> >>>> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
> >>>>
> >>>> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
> >>>>
> >>>> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
> >>>
> >>> It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
> >>> Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).
> >>>
> >>> Tony
> >>
> >> Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
> >> war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
> >> two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
> >> detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
> >>
> >> The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
> >> of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
> >> mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
> >> of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
> >>
> >> As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
> >> do they?"
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/
> >
> > Haven't read it.
> >
> > I'll note that, even today, the overall population density is 85 people/sq
> > mile. Even dropping Alaska wouldn't raise it by that much.
> >
> > The only states with > 1000/sqm are Rhode Island and New Jersey, along with
> > DC. So offices and factories can still draw on the same base population as
> > before, just the commutes get longer.
> >
> > However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
> > been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
> > Luddite.
> >
> > This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
> > by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
> > the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.
> >
> > pt
>
> I suspect that the old rule, "if the USA has a cold, the rest of the
> world gets pneumonia" applies here. In other words, if the USA survives
> a nuclear exchange, the other parties are non-existent now.

That's a convenient rule for writers of post-apocalyptic prepper porn,
but has little basis in reality. Brackett both predates its existence,
and is too good a writer to lean on it.

I'd expect some justification to be provided. Again, I haven't read the
book. Is South Africa destroyed? New Zealand? Argentina?

pt
Michael F. Stemper
2018-03-20 21:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-20 16:30, Peter Trei wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:14:36 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/20/2018 1:53 PM, Peter Trei wrote:

>>> However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
>>> been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
>>> Luddite.
>>>
>>> This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
>>> by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
>>> the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.
>>>
>>> pt
>>
>> I suspect that the old rule, "if the USA has a cold, the rest of the
>> world gets pneumonia" applies here. In other words, if the USA survives
>> a nuclear exchange, the other parties are non-existent now.
>
> That's a convenient rule for writers of post-apocalyptic prepper porn,
> but has little basis in reality. Brackett both predates its existence,
> and is too good a writer to lean on it.
>
> I'd expect some justification to be provided. Again, I haven't read the
> book. Is South Africa destroyed? New Zealand? Argentina?

Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
(I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
blasted to oblivion.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 94:3-6
David DeLaney
2018-03-21 09:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-20, Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-03-20 16:30, Peter Trei wrote:
>> I'd expect some justification to be provided. Again, I haven't read the
>> book. Is South Africa destroyed? New Zealand? Argentina?
>
> Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
> that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
> Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
> (I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
> blasted to oblivion.

In Phil Foglio's Gallimaufry, I believe something similar occurred, leaving
the later space-faring humans to descend from those in Antarctica.

But I may be confusing this with one of his XxxenophilE stories...

Dave, wacky boing vs ominous hummmm
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anthony Nance
2018-03-21 14:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-03-20 16:30, Peter Trei wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:14:36 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2018 1:53 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
>
>>>> However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
>>>> been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
>>>> Luddite.
>>>>
>>>> This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
>>>> by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
>>>> the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.
>>>>
>>>> pt
>>>
>>> I suspect that the old rule, "if the USA has a cold, the rest of the
>>> world gets pneumonia" applies here. In other words, if the USA survives
>>> a nuclear exchange, the other parties are non-existent now.
>>
>> That's a convenient rule for writers of post-apocalyptic prepper porn,
>> but has little basis in reality. Brackett both predates its existence,
>> and is too good a writer to lean on it.
>>
>> I'd expect some justification to be provided. Again, I haven't read the
>> book. Is South Africa destroyed? New Zealand? Argentina?
>
> Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
> that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
> Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
> (I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
> blasted to oblivion.

That reminds me of Poul Anderson's Maurai Federation (generally
set several centuries after a nuclear apocalypse), which was
based/descended from New Zealand and other parts of the South
Pacific. However, the Maurai stories are set far enough into
the future that there are other prominent -- and very different --
societies around the world, including the Pacific Northwest of
North America, Central North America, a few in Europe, and others.

Tony
Michael F. Stemper
2018-03-21 17:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-21 09:43, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
>> that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
>> Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
>> (I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
>> blasted to oblivion.
>
> That reminds me of Poul Anderson's Maurai Federation (generally
> set several centuries after a nuclear apocalypse), which was
> based/descended from New Zealand and other parts of the South
> Pacific. However, the Maurai stories are set far enough into
> the future that there are other prominent -- and very different --
> societies around the world, including the Pacific Northwest of
> North America, Central North America, a few in Europe, and others.

I consider myself pretty well-read in Anderson, but I've never heard
of these before. Thanks!

--
Michael F. Stemper
Exodus 22:21
Anthony Nance
2018-03-21 17:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-03-21 09:43, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
>>> that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
>>> Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
>>> (I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
>>> blasted to oblivion.
>>
>> That reminds me of Poul Anderson's Maurai Federation (generally
>> set several centuries after a nuclear apocalypse), which was
>> based/descended from New Zealand and other parts of the South
>> Pacific. However, the Maurai stories are set far enough into
>> the future that there are other prominent -- and very different --
>> societies around the world, including the Pacific Northwest of
>> North America, Central North America, a few in Europe, and others.
>
> I consider myself pretty well-read in Anderson, but I've never heard
> of these before. Thanks!
>

He didn't write very many stories in this series, but I enjoyed
them all. <isfdb> Yeah, there are three short stories (my favorite
is The Sky People) and one novel - Orion Shall Rise. Also, the novel
There Will Be Time sees the protagonist time-traveling to various
periods, and he learns that the Maurai Federation will eventually
dominate the world (in some future era). I forget if he visits
the Maurai Federation time period or not, but it seems likely
he did.

Anyhow, all three Maurai short stories are in the Maurai & Kith
collection. (Kith is a separate universe he wrote about, with
just a few short stories and one novel.)

Tony
p***@hotmail.com
2018-03-24 03:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:56:05 PM UTC-5, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2018-03-21 09:43, Anthony Nance wrote:
> >> Michael F. Stemper <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Very good questions. In H. Beam Piper's Terro-Human Future (I think
> >>> that's its proper name), there was a nasty nuclear exchange on Earth.
> >>> Thus, the Federation was descended from South Africa, South America, and
> >>> (I think) Australia. The Northern Hemisphere had been pretty much
> >>> blasted to oblivion.
> >>
> >> That reminds me of Poul Anderson's Maurai Federation (generally
> >> set several centuries after a nuclear apocalypse), which was
> >> based/descended from New Zealand and other parts of the South
> >> Pacific. However, the Maurai stories are set far enough into
> >> the future that there are other prominent -- and very different --
> >> societies around the world, including the Pacific Northwest of
> >> North America, Central North America, a few in Europe, and others.
> >
> > I consider myself pretty well-read in Anderson, but I've never heard
> > of these before. Thanks!
> >
>
> He didn't write very many stories in this series, but I enjoyed
> them all. <isfdb> Yeah, there are three short stories (my favorite
> is The Sky People) and one novel - Orion Shall Rise. Also, the novel
> There Will Be Time sees the protagonist time-traveling to various
> periods, and he learns that the Maurai Federation will eventually
> dominate the world (in some future era). I forget if he visits
> the Maurai Federation time period or not, but it seems likely
> he did.
>
If memory serves, the protagonist of _There Will be Time_ had a set
of people from various times that were his confidents and advisers, one
of whom was a philosopher of the Mauri Federation era.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Anthony Nance
2018-03-20 23:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:14:36 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/20/2018 1:53 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> >>> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>> >>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>> >>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>> >>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Excellent question - if teens do count, there are a lot of
>> >>>> post-apocalyptic YA series out there, including Hunger Games
>> >>>> and Maze Runner.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also:
>> >>>> - "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - _The Stand_ by Stephen King has a few teens in prominent roles,
>> >>>> including Harold Lauder and (lee so) Julie Lawry.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - _Empty World_ by John Christopher
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - How old is Fors in Norton's Star Man's Son (Daybreak 2250AD)?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - _The Chrysalids_ by John Wyndham
>> >>>
>> >>> It belatedly occurs to me that in _The Long Tomorrow_ by Brackett,
>> >>> Len & Esau are young teens (14? 15?).
>> >>>
>> >>> Tony
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
>> >> war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
>> >> two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
>> >> detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
>> >>
>> >> The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
>> >> of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
>> >> mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
>> >> of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
>> >>
>> >> As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
>> >> do they?"
>> >> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/
>> >
>> > Haven't read it.
>> >
>> > I'll note that, even today, the overall population density is 85 people/sq
>> > mile. Even dropping Alaska wouldn't raise it by that much.
>> >
>> > The only states with > 1000/sqm are Rhode Island and New Jersey, along with
>> > DC. So offices and factories can still draw on the same base population as
>> > before, just the commutes get longer.
>> >
>> > However, looking at Wikipedia, I see that in the book, the population has
>> > been greatly reduced (from its 1955 level of about 160M), and they've gone
>> > Luddite.
>> >
>> > This means, of course, that the US should have been invaded/received aid
>> > by forces from a nation or nations that (a) weren't so badly affected by
>> > the war, and/or (b) weren't stupid enough to give up industry and science.
>> >
>> > pt
>>
>> I suspect that the old rule, "if the USA has a cold, the rest of the
>> world gets pneumonia" applies here. In other words, if the USA survives
>> a nuclear exchange, the other parties are non-existent now.
>
> That's a convenient rule for writers of post-apocalyptic prepper porn,
> but has little basis in reality. Brackett both predates its existence,
> and is too good a writer to lean on it.
>
> I'd expect some justification to be provided. Again, I haven't read the
> book. Is South Africa destroyed? New Zealand? Argentina?

I just skimmed through my copy, and it seems like all the
cities of the world got destroyed. Here is one passage
(p. 152 in my 1980 Del Rey edition):

"What ever happened to those countries - I mean, like France?"
"They're just about like us - the ones on the winning side.
Lord knows what happened to the ones that lost. The whole world
has jogged back to pretty much what it was when Louisville
was this size before, and this canal was first dug."

There are a few other passages here and there that hint
at the same thing, and I may have missed some of course,
since I just skimmed.

It's worth noting that very little of the book talks about
"before" in much detail, and very little of the book gives
details about places besides the few towns/settlements the
protagonists go to.

Tony
David DeLaney
2018-03-21 09:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-20, Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> > Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>> >> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>> >>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>> >>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>> >>>
>> >>> What is your definition of a child ?

It occurs to me that the Wards _and_ the Undersiders in Worm, as well as
Taylor Hebert, the protagonist, are all mid-to-late teens when things start
off. The story does cover a few years in its 1.5 million words, but there is
most definitely an apocalypse involved, one which Contessa and Cauldron have
been trying to prepare for since a while before the story starts. A multi-world
apocalypse even, one which even Lynn would have to gaze on with awe and
despair.

The sequel, Ward, appears to be set at the start in a place which recovered
fairly quickly, probably with major parahuman help, some 5-ish years later -
but there's still dystopian elements.

Dave, don't read the comments on your first readthrough. save that for the
immediate reread.
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-22 01:53:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 3/21/2018 4:39 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2018-03-20, Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>>> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>
> It occurs to me that the Wards _and_ the Undersiders in Worm, as well as
> Taylor Hebert, the protagonist, are all mid-to-late teens when things start
> off. The story does cover a few years in its 1.5 million words, but there is
> most definitely an apocalypse involved, one which Contessa and Cauldron have
> been trying to prepare for since a while before the story starts. A multi-world
> apocalypse even, one which even Lynn would have to gaze on with awe and
> despair.
>
> The sequel, Ward, appears to be set at the start in a place which recovered
> fairly quickly, probably with major parahuman help, some 5-ish years later -
> but there's still dystopian elements.
>
> Dave, don't read the comments on your first readthrough. save that for the
> immediate reread.

What book are you taking about ?

Lynn
David Johnston
2018-03-22 02:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-21 7:53 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/21/2018 4:39 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
>> On 2018-03-20, Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 3/20/2018 8:06 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>>>> Anthony Nance <***@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>>>>>>>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>>>>>>>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your definition of a child ?
>>
>> It occurs to me that the Wards _and_ the Undersiders in Worm, as well as
>> Taylor Hebert, the protagonist, are all mid-to-late teens when things
>> start
>> off. The story does cover a few years in its 1.5 million words, but
>> there is
>> most definitely an apocalypse involved, one which Contessa and
>> Cauldron have
>> been trying to prepare for since a while before the story starts. A
>> multi-world
>> apocalypse even, one which even Lynn would have to gaze on with awe and
>> despair.
>>
>> The sequel, Ward, appears to be set at the start in a place which
>> recovered
>> fairly quickly, probably with major parahuman help, some 5-ish years
>> later -
>> but there's still dystopian elements.
>>
>> Dave, don't read the comments on your first readthrough. save that for
>> the
>>   immediate reread.
>
> What book are you taking about ?

https://parahumans.wordpress.com/
David DeLaney
2018-04-02 08:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-22, Lynn McGuire <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/21/2018 4:39 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
>> On 2018-03-20, Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It occurs to me that the Wards _and_ the Undersiders in Worm, as well as
>> Taylor Hebert, the protagonist, are all mid-to-late teens when things start
>> off. The story does cover a few years in its 1.5 million words, but there is
>> most definitely an apocalypse involved, one which Contessa and Cauldron have
>> been trying to prepare for since a while before the story starts. A
>> multi-world
>> apocalypse even, one which even Lynn would have to gaze on with awe and
>> despair.
>>
>> The sequel, Ward, appears to be set at the start in a place which recovered
>> fairly quickly, probably with major parahuman help, some 5-ish years later -
>> but there's still dystopian elements.
>>
>> Dave, don't read the comments on your first readthrough. save that for the
>> immediate reread.
>
> What book are you taking about ?

It's multi-book LENGTH - 1.5 million words or so, not counting the comments,
don't read them until your second time through because spoilers abound but once
you do they are SO worth it, unlike many comments sections, where was I?

Oh yes. It's as long as several books, but is actually a web serial, at
I think parahumans.wordpress.com . Dark super-people setting, Things Get Worse
is practically a motto of the story, and the heroine just wanted to be a good
guy. (You get powers if you 'trigger' ... and you don't trigger except under
enormously stressful situations, The Worst Day Of Your Life, normally.
Exceptions like Vicky Dallon do exist.)

Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic in
a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
taste of man. would read sequels. have only seen one typo so far.
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Juho Julkunen
2018-04-02 21:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <79CdnUTNnNcpe1zHnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com>,
***@earthlink.net says...
>
>
> Oh yes. It's as long as several books, but is actually a web serial, at
> I think parahumans.wordpress.com . Dark super-people setting, Things Get Worse
> is practically a motto of the story, and the heroine just wanted to be a good
> guy. (You get powers if you 'trigger' ... and you don't trigger except under
> enormously stressful situations, The Worst Day Of Your Life, normally.
> Exceptions like Vicky Dallon do exist.)

A point of order: we only get a very cleaned up description of Vicky's
trigger event, with all of the context missing. It probably wasn't a
very good day for her.

Personally I suspect she might have something in common with Taylor. If
we buy the theory that the powers help with the immediate crisis (while
exacerbating matters in the long run), what sort of a situation might a
highschooler find herself in that would be solved by a 'love me/fear
me' aura and a force field?

Of course, she definitely had worse days, later on.

--
Juho Julkunen
David Goldfarb
2018-04-04 04:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <79CdnUTNnNcpe1zHnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com>,
David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic in
> a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
> taste of man.

Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
(I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the
YA Award....)

--
David Goldfarb |"Nothing is more annoying to the discoverers of a
***@gmail.com | new land without human habitation than to find
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | that the natives have a strong sense of property
| rights." -- John M. Ford
David DeLaney
2018-04-04 09:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-04-04, David Goldfarb <***@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>>Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic
>> in a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
>> taste of man.
>
> Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
> much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
> (I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
> the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
> Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the YA Award....)

I have finished The Human Dress. +1, like, would read again. I enjoyed the
totally unexpected yet foreshadowed since before [REDACTED] revelation in
chapter 74; the magic system proved SUITABLY EPIC, as Tyl eventually found out.

(At the start of the book, it gradually comes out that they have the magical
equivalent of chemistry down pretty okay, though no plastics yet; sootstuff,
lifebreath, smallest, and deadair are the ingredients of what? And they have a
glimmering of the underlying Fire and Ice behind nuclear physics. This does
not initially help much against the invasion of corpsesuckers, clearly a deadly
variety of vampire, from no known source, though they're also clearly Made
Things.)

Saw one typo, in chapter 1 somewhere, and one odd word choice, in chapter 81,
which may be okay from my being unfamiliar wuith a particular archaic
construction?

I also can tell that though this is QUITE FIRMLY NOT in the Commonweal's
setting, shadows of it run all through it - it was born out of this, which just
makes me gladder to own it (and more impatient for books 4-6, of course.)

Dave-Bob says two three-toed claws and two small shadowy raptors up!
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Chris Buckley
2018-04-04 13:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-04-04, David DeLaney <***@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2018-04-04, David Goldfarb <***@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>>>Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic
>>> in a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
>>> taste of man.
>>
>> Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
>> much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
>> (I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
>> the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
>> Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the YA Award....)
>
> I have finished The Human Dress. +1, like, would read again. I enjoyed the
> totally unexpected yet foreshadowed since before [REDACTED] revelation in
> chapter 74; the magic system proved SUITABLY EPIC, as Tyl eventually found out.
>
> (At the start of the book, it gradually comes out that they have the magical
> equivalent of chemistry down pretty okay, though no plastics yet; sootstuff,
> lifebreath, smallest, and deadair are the ingredients of what? And they have a
> glimmering of the underlying Fire and Ice behind nuclear physics. This does
> not initially help much against the invasion of corpsesuckers, clearly a deadly
> variety of vampire, from no known source, though they're also clearly Made
> Things.)
>
> Saw one typo, in chapter 1 somewhere, and one odd word choice, in chapter 81,
> which may be okay from my being unfamiliar wuith a particular archaic
> construction?
>
> I also can tell that though this is QUITE FIRMLY NOT in the Commonweal's
> setting, shadows of it run all through it - it was born out of this, which just
> makes me gladder to own it (and more impatient for books 4-6, of course.)

Yes, it's very clear that the major ideas/themes of the Commonweal setting
had their origin in _The Human Dress_ . They are taken a lot further in
the Commonweal books, which benefit from not exploring as many ideas as
_The Human Dress_ .

Overall, I would strongly recommend starting with the Commonweal
books. Saunders is a quirky writer, and _The Human Dress_ is a bit
uneven on top of that. I wouldn't want anybody to give up on Saunders
before reading _The March North_ (the first Commonweal book, which I
consider one of my top 10 favorites, and one of the best
world-building books out there.)

Chris
Dimensional Traveler
2018-04-04 16:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 4/3/2018 9:52 PM, David Goldfarb wrote:
> In article <79CdnUTNnNcpe1zHnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com>,
> David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>> Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic in
>> a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
>> taste of man.
>
> Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
> much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
> (I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
> the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
> Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the
> YA Award....)
>
Who is the author of _The Human Dress_? I searched Amazon for that
title and only came up with some UFO conspiracy book.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Chris Buckley
2018-04-04 17:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-04-04, Dimensional Traveler <***@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/2018 9:52 PM, David Goldfarb wrote:
>> In article <79CdnUTNnNcpe1zHnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com>,
>> David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>>> Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic in
>>> a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
>>> taste of man.
>>
>> Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
>> much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
>> (I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
>> the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
>> Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the
>> YA Award....)
>>
> Who is the author of _The Human Dress_? I searched Amazon for that
> title and only came up with some UFO conspiracy book.

Graydon Saunders. It's deliberately not available on Amazon (he objects
to Amazon's terms of service for non-US authors (he's Canadian)).

His books are the only e-books I've bought through Google Play.

Chris
-dsr-
2018-04-06 13:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-04-04, Chris Buckley <***@sabir.com> wrote:
> On 2018-04-04, Dimensional Traveler <***@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 4/3/2018 9:52 PM, David Goldfarb wrote:
>>> In article <79CdnUTNnNcpe1zHnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com>,
>>> David DeLaney <***@vic.com> wrote:
>>>> Dave, currently reading _The Human Dress_ and enjoying it, humans with magic in
>>>> a setting where giant lizard dinosaur-types also still exist and like the
>>>> taste of man.
>>>
>>> Sounds fun. I've got it on my tablet, but am unlikely to be reading
>>> much of anything not Hugo award related for the next few months.
>>> (I need to read at least a couple volumes each of the books of
>>> the Raksura, the Memoirs of Lady Trent, and Jackson Bennett's
>>> Divine Cities. And then there's the Campbell nominees and the
>>> YA Award....)
>>>
>> Who is the author of _The Human Dress_? I searched Amazon for that
>> title and only came up with some UFO conspiracy book.
>
> Graydon Saunders. It's deliberately not available on Amazon (he objects
> to Amazon's terms of service for non-US authors (he's Canadian)).
>
> His books are the only e-books I've bought through Google Play.

http://dubiousprospects.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-human-dress-now-live-everywhere.html

includes an Amazon link, as well as the other usual suspects.

-dsr-
Gene Wirchenko
2018-03-21 18:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:12:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
>war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
>two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
>detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
>
>The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
>of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
>mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
>of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
>
>As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
>do they?"
> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/

Well, the statement is ambiguous. Are cities, towns, communities
limited to a) one thousand people or b) one thousand people to the
square mile?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-22 20:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 3/21/2018 1:11 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:12:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Yes. Here is my four star review, "What if there was a global nuclear
>> war in the 1950s and the USA "won"? What would the USA look like after
>> two generations of the survivors rebuilt ? Ms. Brackett takes a
>> detailed look at life in post apocalyptic America. It is not pretty.
>>
>> The book starts off with the following: ""No city, no town, no community
>> of more than one thousand people or two hundred buildings to the square
>> mile shall be built or permitted to exist anywhere in the United States
>> of America." --30th Amendment of the US Constitution"
>>
>> As you can imagine, no cities means everyone lives an agrarian life. Or
>> do they?"
>> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tomorrow-Leigh-Brackett/dp/1612420133/
>
> Well, the statement is ambiguous. Are cities, towns, communities
> limited to a) one thousand people or b) one thousand people to the
> square mile?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko

I would advise that you take that up with Leigh Brackett.

Lynn
a***@yahoo.com
2018-03-21 15:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 4:37:34 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/17/2018 8:38 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> > Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> > Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
> >
> > What other similar stories can be recommended?
>
> What is your definition of a child ?
>

While I was looking for stories with pre-teen protagonists, other's would be of interest as long as some of the child like naiveness came through the story. Thanks for all of the recs, everybody!
Greg Goss
2018-03-22 03:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"***@yahoo.com" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:


>While I was looking for stories with pre-teen protagonists, other's would be of interest as long as some of the child like naiveness came through the story. Thanks for all of the recs, everybody!

I forget the title of the book, but the Bean biography and sidekick
view of Ender's Game is an extreme case.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Gene Wirchenko
2018-03-22 21:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:16:53 -0600, Greg Goss <***@gossg.org> wrote:

>"***@yahoo.com" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>While I was looking for stories with pre-teen protagonists, other's would be of interest as long as some of the child like naiveness came through the story. Thanks for all of the recs, everybody!
>
>I forget the title of the book, but the Bean biography and sidekick
>view of Ender's Game is an extreme case.

YASID: _Ender's Shadow_.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Robert Carnegie
2018-03-21 22:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Saturday, 17 March 2018 13:38:07 UTC, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>
> What other similar stories can be recommended?

YASID: I may have been already told previously what
the novel is where a mechanical city is breaking down,
is inhabited only by children, and a sort of harlequin
or clown figure is hunting and eliminating them.
I think the narrator is a pre-teenaged girl with
a protective older brother.

(I think I also remember spoilers which I'm not mentioning.)

It is not (I am pretty sure):
Harlan Ellison
Batman and Robin
That episode of Star Trek
That other episode of Star Trek
That episode of Star Trek Voyager
The applicable "Transporter malfunction" episode of
Star Trek The Next Generation
Fine as some of them are.

I enjoyed the book when I read it, but that was a very long
time ago - 1970s or 1980s. Looking back, I think there may
be conspicuous cheating by the author.
Lynn McGuire
2018-03-22 21:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 3/21/2018 5:19 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 17 March 2018 13:38:07 UTC, ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Patient Zero by Tananarive Due
>> Gift From The Graylanders by Michael Bishop
>> Soulless in His Sight by Milo James Fowler
>>
>> What other similar stories can be recommended?
>
> YASID: I may have been already told previously what
> the novel is where a mechanical city is breaking down,
> is inhabited only by children, and a sort of harlequin
> or clown figure is hunting and eliminating them.
> I think the narrator is a pre-teenaged girl with
> a protective older brother.
>
> (I think I also remember spoilers which I'm not mentioning.)
>
> It is not (I am pretty sure):
> Harlan Ellison
> Batman and Robin
> That episode of Star Trek
> That other episode of Star Trek
> That episode of Star Trek Voyager
> The applicable "Transporter malfunction" episode of
> Star Trek The Next Generation
> Fine as some of them are.
>
> I enjoyed the book when I read it, but that was a very long
> time ago - 1970s or 1980s. Looking back, I think there may
> be conspicuous cheating by the author.

Sounds like a Stephen King book. Or Andre Norton. Or Marion Zimmer
Bradley.

Lynn
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