What we're *really* looking forward to reading in 2018

[Anthony Nance]

Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
titled thread, I'm wondering:

What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?

I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.

Just curious,
Tony
----------------------------------------------
Coming out in 2018, probably pick up new and read shortly after release:
Andrews - Magic Triumphs (Kate Daniels #10) (May)
Brust - Good Guys (March)
Butcher - Brief Cases (Harry Dresden short stories) (June)
Cook - Port of Shadows (a new Black Company novel) (September)
Hearne - Scourged (Iron Druid #9) (April)
Jacka - Marked (Alex Verus #9) (July)
Yoon Ha Lee - Revenant Gun (Machineries of Empire #3) (June)
Martinez - Constance Verity Saves the World (CV #2) (July)

Non-2018 books I expect to read in 2018:
Cold Victory [Psychotechnic League] - Poul Anderson
Komarr [Vorkosigan universe] - Bujold
The Man Who Was Thursday - Chesterton
Inferno & maybe Purgatorio - Dante
The Far Side of the Stars [Leary & Mundy] - Drake
Reapers Gale [Malazan Empire] - Erikson
The Good, The Bad, and the Uncanny [Nightside] - Green
Daemons Are Forever [Secret Histories] - Green
Knife of Dreams [Wheel of Time] - Jordan
Local Custom [Liaden] - Lee & Miller
Hallow Point [Mick Oberon] - Marmell
A Local Habitation [October Daye] - McGuire
Pyramids [Discworld] - Pratchett
All Flesh Is Grass and/or Shakespeare's Planet - Simak
A Prison Unsought [Exordium] - Smith & Trowbridge
Lyonesse trilogy - Vance
The Sorceror's Widow [Ethshar] - Watt-Evans
The Shadow Throne [Shadow Campaigns] - Wexler

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony
----------------------------------------------
Butcher - Brief Cases (Harry Dresden short stories) (June)

Wait, what!? Still no Dresden or Cinder Spires novel?!

According to Amazon, I'm looking forward to:

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, September 4, 2018
Night and Silence (October Daye)
Seanan McGuire

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Friday, March 2, 2018
Of Dubious Intent: A Dark Artifice Novel
J.A. Sutherland

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, August 7, 2018
Shadow's Bane (Dorina Basarab)
Karen Chance

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, February 20, 2018
The Unlikeable Demon Hunter: Crave (Nava Katz Book 4)
Deborah Wilde

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, May 15, 2018
By Fire Above: A Signal Airship Novel
Robyn Bennis

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Monday, January 15, 2018
Queen of the Damned (Imp Series Book 9)
Debra Dunbar

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, July 3, 2018
Marked (An Alex Verus Novel)
Benedict Jacka

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, May 15, 2018
Wrath of Empire (Gods of Blood and Powder)
Brian McClellan

Pre-ordered
Release day delivery: Tuesday, May 8, 2018
Magic Triumphs (Kate Daniels)
Ilona Andrews

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony
----------------------------------------------
Butcher - Brief Cases (Harry Dresden short stories) (June)

Wait, what!? Still no Dresden or Cinder Spires novel?!

Yeah, I was bummed to see that neither are expected for this
year (so far?). I've forgotten which one he's expecting to
finish first as well.

Tony

[Ahasuerus]

On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-5, Anthony Nance wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Post by Anthony Nance
All Flesh Is Grass and/or Shakespeare's Planet - Simak

An interesting pairing. _All Flesh Is Grass _ is typical 1960s Simak.
Take an ounce of _Way Station_, an ounce of _They Walked Like Men_, add a
bit of sugar/spice and you should be all set. OTOH, _Shakespeare's Planet_
is 1970s Simak: somewhat less focused, less plot- and conflict-driven, etc.

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip]
[snip]

Post by Anthony Nance
All Flesh Is Grass and/or Shakespeare's Planet - Simak

An interesting pairing. _All Flesh Is Grass _ is typical 1960s Simak.
Take an ounce of _Way Station_, an ounce of _They Walked Like Men_, add a
bit of sugar/spice and you should be all set. OTOH, _Shakespeare's Planet_
is 1970s Simak: somewhat less focused, less plot- and conflict-driven, etc.

A few factors went into the choices:
a) I have them both already.
b) Interesting things have been said here about both over the years.
c) I read (and enjoyed) The Goblin Reservation a few weeks ago.
All Flesh is Grass came out just a few years before, so I'm
hoping for similar quality/tone.
d) My copy of The Goblin Reservation is the 1977 edition (my thanks
to isfdb!), and right there on the cover it touts Simak as
"Hugo Award winning author of Shakespeare's Planet". Now,
of course, that would usually mean SP was the most recent
release by that author/publisher combination, but it did
remind me that I have SP and will likely enjoy it.

Tony

[Ahasuerus]

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip]
[snip]

Post by Anthony Nance
All Flesh Is Grass and/or Shakespeare's Planet - Simak

An interesting pairing. _All Flesh Is Grass _ is typical 1960s Simak.
Take an ounce of _Way Station_, an ounce of _They Walked Like Men_, add a
bit of sugar/spice and you should be all set. OTOH, _Shakespeare's Planet_
is 1970s Simak: somewhat less focused, less plot- and conflict-driven, etc.

a) I have them both already.
b) Interesting things have been said here about both over the years.
c) I read (and enjoyed) The Goblin Reservation a few weeks ago.
All Flesh is Grass came out just a few years before, so I'm
hoping for similar quality/tone.

[snip]

_The Goblin Reservation_ had a diverse cast of interesting characters
while _All Flesh is Grass_ was a more personal novel. There was nothing
wrong with it (it was good enough to be nominated for the Nebula award),
but I am not sure you'll get the same quality/tone.

That said, almost everything that Simak wrote in the 1950s and 1960s is
worth reading. Well, maybe not _Empire_ (1951).

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Ahasuerus

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip]
[snip]

Post by Anthony Nance
All Flesh Is Grass and/or Shakespeare's Planet - Simak

An interesting pairing. _All Flesh Is Grass _ is typical 1960s Simak.
Take an ounce of _Way Station_, an ounce of _They Walked Like Men_, add a
bit of sugar/spice and you should be all set. OTOH, _Shakespeare's Planet_
is 1970s Simak: somewhat less focused, less plot- and conflict-driven, etc.

a) I have them both already.
b) Interesting things have been said here about both over the years.
c) I read (and enjoyed) The Goblin Reservation a few weeks ago.
All Flesh is Grass came out just a few years before, so I'm
hoping for similar quality/tone.

[snip]
_The Goblin Reservation_ had a diverse cast of interesting characters
while _All Flesh is Grass_ was a more personal novel. There was nothing
wrong with it (it was good enough to be nominated for the Nebula award),
but I am not sure you'll get the same quality/tone.
That said, almost everything that Simak wrote in the 1950s and 1960s is
worth reading. Well, maybe not _Empire_ (1951).

Good ! _The Goblin Reservation_ is in my SBR.

Lynn

[Magewolf]

Post by Anthony Nance
d) My copy of The Goblin Reservation is the 1977 edition (my thanks
to isfdb!), and right there on the cover it touts Simak as
"Hugo Award winning author of Shakespeare's Planet". Now,
of course, that would usually mean SP was the most recent
release by that author/publisher combination, but it did
remind me that I have SP and will likely enjoy it.
Tony

My first copy of The Goblin Reservation was the first time I run across
a paperback with the cover bound to a completely different book. I wish
I had keep it but at the time I cared more about reading material then I
did oddities so I returned it to the store.

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?

Well, I don't know what the titles are yet, but I hope to actually
read all of the Hugo novel nominees for the year just past before the
voting deadline, and actually vote on them. (Because why the hell
else did I buy an associate membership?) I also hope that I'll be
able to read *last* year's novel nominees, which are sitting there on
the nightstand making fun of me at this very moment.

In the "maybe not really looking forward quite so much any more"
department, Lackey has the ninth book in the current subsequence of
the Valdemar series coming out. I'll probably read it and sigh a bit,
because it's advertised as "Family Spies #1" which I suspect takes
this little bit of the timeline to 11 books, each one with a bit more
filler than the last. Get that woman a (more aggressive) editor!

-GAWollman

[D B Davis]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony
----------------------------------------------

All of mine are pre-2018 because my to-be-read pile is the size of a
small hill. (Listed in no particular order.)

_Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said_ (PKD)
_Mortal Fear_ (Cook)
_The Medical Detectives_ (Roueche)
_White Jazz_ (Elroy)
_Physics of the Impossible_ (Kaku)
_The Past Through Tomorrow_ (RAH)
_The Lathe of Heaven_ (LeGuin)
_His Share of Glory_ (Kornbluth)
_The Best of PKD_ (PKD)
_World of Ptavvs_ (Niven)

So, that's my tentative plan. Some of the RAH, PKD, and Kornbluth
shorts have already been read. The LeGuin and the Elroy are a re-read.
The Elroy's not sf.
The Wexler on your list looks intriguing, given my limited knowledge
of Wexler. Ted reviewed "The Penitent Damned" last year. The online
version [1] is available to the public for free.

Note.

1. https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-coolest-fantasy-story-youll-read-this-week-514117561

Thank you,

--
Don

[Anthony Nance]

Post by D B Davis

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony
----------------------------------------------

All of mine are pre-2018 because my to-be-read pile is the size of a
small hill. (Listed in no particular order.)
<snip some>
The Wexler on your list looks intriguing, given my limited knowledge
of Wexler. Ted reviewed "The Penitent Damned" last year. The online
version [1] is available to the public for free.

I read The Thousand Names (1st in the series) last year due to
Ted an others discussing it here. It was good, and I'm about to
finish The Shadow Throne (#2 in the series).

If you start with The Thousand Names, give it some time. Not only
does it take a while to establish the world & characters, but it
takes a good long while for the fantasy aspect to come to the front.
I enjoyed the book, but I can see where either may be offputting.

Tony

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony

...

I am reading the Vince Flynn (Mitch Rapp) and Lee Child (Jack Reacher)
series right now. I've spent about $300 on the paperbacks so far.

I have about 400 to 500 books in my SBR (strategic book reserve). The
wife says that I need to read several of them before buying any more
books from Big River. I do have several books from my cousin to be read:

Once Broken Faith (October Daye) - McGuire
https://www.amazon.com/Once-Broken-Faith-October-Daye/dp/0756408105/
Chaos Choreography (InCryptid) - McGuire

And many others of which these are a few:

Nimbus (A Psi-Tech Novel) by Jacey Bedford
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756411890/
At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9) by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0765364638/
Grace Under Fire: Book Two In The Locker Nine Series (Volume 2) by
Franklin Horton
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1978345550/
Shiver by Maggie Stiefvater
https://www.amazon.com/Shiver-Maggie-Stiefvater/dp/0545682789/
Raven Cursed by Faith Hunter (and Death's Rival and Blood Trade)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451464338/
Alliance of Equals (Liaden Universe®) by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1481482661/
Through Fire (Darkship) by Sarah Hoyt
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1481482459/
Melt Down: A Breakers Novel by Edward W. Robertson
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1480131997/

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?

[excerpted]

Post by Anthony Nance
The Man Who Was Thursday - Chesterton

An excellent work. Note that it is subtitled "A Nightmare."

Post by Anthony Nance
Inferno & maybe Purgatorio - Dante

I hope you can stretch your ambition to read the entire
_Commedia._ For speakers of American English, I recommend John
Ciardi's translation. (If you were British, I'd recommend
Dorothy Sayers's.)

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?

[excerpted]

Post by Anthony Nance
The Man Who Was Thursday - Chesterton

An excellent work. Note that it is subtitled "A Nightmare."

Post by Anthony Nance
Inferno & maybe Purgatorio - Dante

I hope you can stretch your ambition to read the entire
_Commedia._ For speakers of American English, I recommend John
Ciardi's translation. (If you were British, I'd recommend
Dorothy Sayers's.)

Yeah, I will definitely read Inferno, and if that goes
well enough, I'll move on to Purgatorio. If that one goes
well enough, then I'll indeed move on to complete the sequence.

Tony

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance
Inferno & maybe Purgatorio - Dante

I hope you can stretch your ambition to read the entire
_Commedia._ For speakers of American English, I recommend John
Ciardi's translation. (If you were British, I'd recommend
Dorothy Sayers's.)

Yeah, I will definitely read Inferno, and if that goes
well enough, I'll move on to Purgatorio. If that one goes
well enough, then I'll indeed move on to complete the sequence.

Okay, I will now take the liberty of re-posting part of a post I
made on the subject a good many years ago. In answer to
somebody's remark that the _Commedia_ is SF because it is a
trilogy whereof the first book is entertaining but the other two
are dull:

------------------repost begins--------------------


No, no, no. Purgatory and Paradise are dull only if you come to
them expecting them to be like Hell. Is that a reasonable assumption?
Of course not. This is not a Conan story or an Aliens movie. The
blood, gore, and guts, not to mention the slimy mud, boiling blood,
demons with pitchforks, pits filled with excrement, and people who
turn into lizards and back, were not put there to be entertaining,
but to be disgusting. You are supposed to be disgusted, and to say,
"This is what sin is really like, and this is why we are supposed
to avoid it."

If, after all that, you crawl out of the pit onto the shore of Mount
Purgatory, under a dawn sky the color of sapphire, and wash the filth
of Hell from your face with the dew that gathers on the reeds, and
climb the mountain in the company of good people who are trying to
get rid of their remaining bad habits so that they can leave the
limitations of this physical universe altogether and live forever
in light, music, and unimaginable happiness--

and you say, "What is this crap? No monsters? No blood and
guts? Where are the pitchforks and the dirty jokes? Joe-Bob
says, 'Give this one a miss'--"

--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

------------------------------repost ends--------------------

So I urge you to give the other two books a chance.

Note also that Dante was writing in the early fourteenth century
for his contemporaries, who knew who and what all his poetic
circumlocutions meant. Just as, several centuries from now, an
essay referring to "the orange pig" might need explanation. The
Ciardi translation, which I recommended upthread -- and, in fact,
every edition of Dante I've ever encountered -- contains copious
endnotes for every canto, explaining who all these people were.

This is helpful because (as I said elsewhere, repost only upon
request) the _Commedia_ is an allegory, where you say A but you
really mean B, and Dante expects his readers to know that.

As Sayers says in one of her essays on Dante, when Dante wants
an allegorical figure to represent some quality, he doesn't use
a personified abstraction but a real person who manifested that
quality. Thus, if Dante had been writing in the mid-twentieth
century, and wanted to represent Tyranny, he wouldn't have
brought in a rhetorical figure of Tyranny, wearing blood-soaked
garments and treading on human corpses; he would have brought in
Hitler, looking and acting like Hitler.

Sorry about the length; Dante is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine.
I'll shut up now.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

John Savard

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.
John Savard

Interesting only in the sense of horrid fascination. I'm not sure that
I would call that entertaining. I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

Lynn

[Peter Trei]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.
John Savard

Interesting only in the sense of horrid fascination. I'm not sure that
I would call that entertaining. I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

After Inferno, things get better as the books go forward. After all, the
reason its The Divine *Comedy* is because things improve, unlike a tragedy.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no

one would want

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Quadibloc
to live there.
John Savard

Interesting only in the sense of horrid fascination. I'm not sure that
I would call that entertaining. I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

After Inferno, things get better as the books go forward. After all, the
reason its The Divine *Comedy* is because things improve, unlike a tragedy.

Acu tetigisti. It is a comedy because it has a happy ending.

Though there are a good number of funny bits in it as well.
Sayers wrote an essay entitled "The Comedy of the _Comedy_,"
which she began as follows:

"I have sometimes played with the idea of writing a story, and
dropping into it, casually and without comment, the following
sentence:

"'George was curled up comfortably in the big arm-chair, chuckling
over _The Divine Comedy_.'

"The game would be to see how many reviewers and correspondents
could be lured into accusing me of gross illiteracy, and solemnly
pointing out that the work in question, far from being a humorous
piece, was a Great Religious Poem, permeated from end to end by
Awful Sublimity and unmitigated Grimth."

She then proceeds to list many episodes in the work that *are*
funny, and not just the demon-sergeant who dismisses his troops
by farting at them.

Dante's _Comedy_ and Chaucer's _Canterbury Tales_ have this in
common: in each, the writer uses himself as narrator, saying that
he took the journey himself, and subtly portrays him"self" as a
bumbling innocent.

The essay is in Sayers's _Introductory Papers on Dante,_ which
you can probably find, if you're interested, in a good university
library or maybe used at Amazon or Abe.com.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no

one would want

Post by Quadibloc
to live there.
John Savard

Interesting only in the sense of horrid fascination. I'm not sure that
I would call that entertaining. I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

Do you mean Dante's account, or Niven/Pournelle's? In the
former, it gets better once you've clambered (through the
zero-weight space at the center of the earth) into Purgatory,
which is in the South Pacific.

I asked Jerry Pournelle once if he and Niven were going to
attempt to write Purgatory, and he pointed out that their
Infernoland was Hell and Purgatory combined, in that you could
eventually leave it.

When Michaelangelo was painting the Sistine Chapel, some cleric
or other complained to the Pope that Michelangelo had painted him
among the damned in Hell. The Pope replied, "If he had painted
you in Purgatory, I could release you by my power of binding and
loosing. But he has painted you in Hell, _quo nulla est
redemptio._" (from which there is no redemption.

John Ciardi, on the other hand, pointed out in the introduction
to his translation of _Inferno_ that Purgatory is like our modern
junior colleges: it is impossible to flunk out.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no

one would want

Post by Quadibloc
to live there.
John Savard

Interesting only in the sense of horrid fascination. I'm not sure that
I would call that entertaining. I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

Do you mean Dante's account, or Niven/Pournelle's? In the
former, it gets better once you've clambered (through the
zero-weight space at the center of the earth) into Purgatory,
which is in the South Pacific.
I asked Jerry Pournelle once if he and Niven were going to
attempt to write Purgatory, and he pointed out that their
Infernoland was Hell and Purgatory combined, in that you could
eventually leave it.
When Michaelangelo was painting the Sistine Chapel, some cleric
or other complained to the Pope that Michelangelo had painted him
among the damned in Hell. The Pope replied, "If he had painted
you in Purgatory, I could release you by my power of binding and
loosing. But he has painted you in Hell, _quo nulla est
redemptio._" (from which there is no redemption.
John Ciardi, on the other hand, pointed out in the introduction
to his translation of _Inferno_ that Purgatory is like our modern
junior colleges: it is impossible to flunk out.

Niven and Pournelle.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire
I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

Do you mean Dante's account, or Niven/Pournelle's?

Niven and Pournelle.

Okay. In that case, there is one sequel, but it's more of the
same. What a German-speaking poster to one of these groups used
to call "the same in green." You don't need to read it.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire
I only read _Inferno_ because things
kept getting more horrible,

Do you mean Dante's account, or Niven/Pournelle's?

Niven and Pournelle.

Okay. In that case, there is one sequel, but it's more of the
same. What a German-speaking poster to one of these groups used
to call "the same in green." You don't need to read it.

It is in my SBR as a present from my son.

Lynn

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but
no one would want to live there.

Depends on precisely which philosopher you ask.

'Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Mark Twain
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.

Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in Hell
while they're still alive.

C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great Divorce_,
whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got one of the
plot ideas from reading science fiction), but toward the end,
Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost will say, 'We have
always been in Hell,' and the saved will say, 'We have always
been in Heaven.' And both sides will have spoen truly."~

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

In article

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in Hell
while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great Divorce_,
whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got one of the
plot ideas from reading science fiction), but toward the end,
Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost will say, 'We have
always been in Hell,' and the saved will say, 'We have always
been in Heaven.' And both sides will have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter of
opinion.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in Hell
while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great Divorce_,
whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got one of the
plot ideas from reading science fiction), but toward the end,
Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost will say, 'We have
always been in Hell,' and the saved will say, 'We have always
been in Heaven.' And both sides will have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter of
opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited there,
whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.

_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note that
he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink Charon's boat,
he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you are entirely free
to disbelieve him.

[Ninapenda Jibini]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with
you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got
one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter of
opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited there,
whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note that
he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink Charon's boat,
he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you are entirely free
to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with
you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got
one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter of
opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited there,
whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note that
he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink Charon's boat,
he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you are entirely free
to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

[Ninapenda Jibini]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Well, that's a century early for the famous Borgias, but I'm pretty sure their
predecessors, developing the family's signature technique, could've gotten you
some stuff that gave real good trips.

Dave, maybe not with a happy ending, of course

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

Absolutely yes, we have loads of local psilocybes in Europe/UK -
semilanceata (the venerable Liberty Cap) is most common, also
cubensis/strictipes/serbica over much of norther europ, and a whole
bunch of pluteus species. Druids have been doing those trips for
millennia.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:51:08 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

Absolutely yes, we have loads of local psilocybes in Europe/UK -
semilanceata (the venerable Liberty Cap) is most common, also
cubensis/strictipes/serbica over much of norther europ, and a whole
bunch of pluteus species. Druids have been doing those trips for
millennia.

Oh, plus amanita muscaria, but that's really best avoided.

Cheers - Jaimie

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:53:31 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:51:08 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

Absolutely yes, we have loads of local psilocybes in Europe/UK -
semilanceata (the venerable Liberty Cap) is most common, also
cubensis/strictipes/serbica over much of norther europ, and a whole
bunch of pluteus species. Druids have been doing those trips for
millennia.

Oh, plus amanita muscaria, but that's really best avoided.

There's also ergotamine, however I don't know if it was ever used on
purpose as a hallucinogen.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:53:31 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:51:08 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

Absolutely yes, we have loads of local psilocybes in Europe/UK -
semilanceata (the venerable Liberty Cap) is most common, also
cubensis/strictipes/serbica over much of norther europ, and a whole
bunch of pluteus species. Druids have been doing those trips for
millennia.

Oh, plus amanita muscaria, but that's really best avoided.

There's also ergotamine, however I don't know if it was ever used on
purpose as a hallucinogen.

There's the stuff that reindeer are said to eat, but that seems
to be disputed... and not in Dante's neighbourhood.

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-7, Dorothy

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

This lot seem to have some idea:
<https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest-evidence-for-magic-mushroom-use-in-europe/>
=====================================================================
The Selva Pascuala mural, in a cave near the town of Villar del Humo, is
dominated by a bull. But it is a row of 13 small mushroom-like objects
that interests Brian Akers at Pasco-Hernando Community College in New
Port Richey, Florida, and Gaston Guzman at the Ecological Institute of
Xalapa in Mexico. They believe that the objects are the fungi Psilocybe
hispanica, a local species with hallucinogenic properties.

Like the objects depicted in the mural, P. hispanica has a bell-shaped
cap topped with a dome, and lacks an annulus – a ring around the stalk.
“Its stalks also vary from straight to sinuous, as they do in the
mural,” says Akers (Economic Botany, DOI: 10.1007/s12231-011-9152-5).

This isn’t the oldest prehistoric painting thought to depict magic
mushrooms, though. An Algerian mural that may show the species Psilocybe
mairei is 7000 to 9000 years old."
=====================================================================

And then there's all those cases of St Vitus Dance that they now reckon
were cause by Ergot Fungus in the grain.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Gary R. Schmidt

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-7, Dorothy

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about,
but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in
Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction), but
toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost
will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the saved will
say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both sides will
have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter
of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you
are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs in
Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

<https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest-evidence-for-magic-mushroom-use-in-europe/>
=====================================================================
The Selva Pascuala mural, in a cave near the town of Villar del Humo, is
dominated by a bull. But it is a row of 13 small mushroom-like objects
that interests Brian Akers at Pasco-Hernando Community College in New
Port Richey, Florida, and Gaston Guzman at the Ecological Institute of
Xalapa in Mexico. They believe that the objects are the fungi Psilocybe
hispanica, a local species with hallucinogenic properties.
Like the objects depicted in the mural, P. hispanica has a bell-shaped
cap topped with a dome, and lacks an annulus – a ring around the stalk.
“Its stalks also vary from straight to sinuous, as they do in the
mural,” says Akers (Economic Botany, DOI: 10.1007/s12231-011-9152-5).
This isn’t the oldest prehistoric painting thought to depict magic
mushrooms, though. An Algerian mural that may show the species Psilocybe
mairei is 7000 to 9000 years old."
=====================================================================
And then there's all those cases of St Vitus Dance that they now reckon
were cause by Ergot Fungus in the grain.

Thanks; I'll look those up sometime.

Do you know of any evidence of mushroom use in Europe in the
Middle Ages or early Renaissance?


(Other than, you know, cookery.)

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Do you know of any evidence of mushroom use in Europe in the
Middle Ages or early Renaissance?

*Possibly* amanita muscaria. Allegedly the safest way to consume them
is to get someone else to eat them, then drink their pee...

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Do you know of any evidence of mushroom use in Europe in the
Middle Ages or early Renaissance?

*Possibly* amanita muscaria. Allegedly the safest way to consume them
is to get someone else to eat them, then drink their pee...

Thanks, I'll pass.

(Was never particularly interested in getting chemically
entranced, anyway.)

[Greg Goss]

Post by Gary R. Schmidt
And then there's all those cases of St Vitus Dance that they now reckon
were cause by Ergot Fungus in the grain.

I think that the thread is talking about DELIBERATE use of
hallucinogens.

[Ninapenda Jibini]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Gary R. Schmidt
And then there's all those cases of St Vitus Dance that they now
reckon were cause by Ergot Fungus in the grain.

I think that the thread is talking about DELIBERATE use of
hallucinogens.

No, this sub-thread is about whether or not Dante based Inferno on
hallucinations. Deliberately taking hallucinogens isn't required at
all.

(He could also have just been batshit crazy. Hallucinations are a
feature of several mental illnesses. Or he could just have been very
imaginative.)

[D B Davis]

<snip>

Post by Gary R. Schmidt

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Mushrooms perhaps.

Sounds as if you don't know. I don't know either, but I've never
heard of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Europe; they tend to be New
World. Does anybody *know*?

<https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest-evidence-for-magic-mushroom-use-in-europe/
=====================================================================
The Selva Pascuala mural, in a cave near the town of Villar del Humo, is
dominated by a bull. But it is a row of 13 small mushroom-like objects
that interests Brian Akers at Pasco-Hernando Community College in New
Port Richey, Florida, and Gaston Guzman at the Ecological Institute of
Xalapa in Mexico. They believe that the objects are the fungi Psilocybe
hispanica, a local species with hallucinogenic properties.
Like the objects depicted in the mural, P. hispanica has a bell-shaped
cap topped with a dome, and lacks an annulus - a ring around the stalk.
"Its stalks also vary from straight to sinuous, as they do in the
mural," says Akers (Economic Botany, DOI: 10.1007/s12231-011-9152-5).
This isn't the oldest prehistoric painting thought to depict magic
mushrooms, though. An Algerian mural that may show the species Psilocybe
mairei is 7000 to 9000 years old."
=====================================================================
And then there's all those cases of St Vitus Dance that they now reckon
were cause by Ergot Fungus in the grain.

LSD, of course, originates with the fungus. It "was first made by Albert
Hofmann in Switzerland ... from the fungus ergot."
A long time ago (pre-Internet) a mass media magazine (long since
forgotten by me) carried a story about a case of "acute convulsive
ergotism" that occurred in a small central European town. Ergoty rye
bread was the source of the pathogen. My recent memory refresher
research unearthed this interesting tidbit. [1]

Werewolf and Witch Hysteria Caused by Inadvertent Consumption
of Hallucinogens

The connection between werewolves and witches and the accidental
consumption of hallucinogenic compounds isn't a recent development.
In fact, over the last eight centuries various researchers,
physicians and scientists have made striking cases for a
correlation between local diets and werewolf and witch trials,
but most were ignored. Meanwhile, scores of people were tortured
and executed for allegedly being possessed by demons and making
pacts with the devil. Tens of thousands died in Medieval Europe
as a result of supposed curses either cast by witches or
werewolves, or curses that caused a person to become a werewolf
or witch. The truth is that despite the fact that werewolves,
witches and other creatures of lore remain popular today, these
fictional creatures are actually based in a dark but very real
past - a past that likely included hallucinogenic food poisonings
that caused mass sustained hysteria.

Note.

1. https://www.recoveryfirst.org/blog/werewolf-and-witch-hysteria-caused-by-inadvertent-consumption-of-hallucinogens/

Thank you,

--
Don

[Ninapenda Jibini]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Ninapenda Jibini

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-7,

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but
with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read
about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live
in Hell while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great
Divorce_, whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he
got one of the plot ideas from reading science fiction),
but toward the end, Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the
lost will say, 'We have always been in Hell,' and the
saved will say, 'We have always been in Heaven.' And both
sides will have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by
definition, impossible), the characteristics of Hell are
purely a matter of opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited
there, whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the
spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note
that he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink
Charon's boat, he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But
you are entirely free to disbelieve him.

I'm pretty sure they had some mighty good recreational drugs
in Dante's time, too.

Yeah, it's called alcohol.

There were a number of hallucinogens used at the time, too.

In 14th century Italy?

Yes.

[D B Davis]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

In article

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--then, this is a problem, not with the trilogy, but with you.

Oh, indeed; Hell may be an entertaining place to read about, but no one would want
to live there.

You ought to be right.
Unfortunately, some people appear to have chosen to live in Hell
while they're still alive.
C. S. Lewis wrote a short fantasy entitled _The Great Divorce_,
whose plot I won't go into in depth (although he got one of the
plot ideas from reading science fiction), but toward the end,
Lewis's mentor says, ~"At the end, the lost will say, 'We have
always been in Hell,' and the saved will say, 'We have always
been in Heaven.' And both sides will have spoen truly."~

In the absence of objective evidence (which is, by definition,
impossible), the characteristics of Hell are purely a matter of
opinion.

You are entirely free to believe that Dante never visited there,
whether in the flesh (as he claims*) or in the spirit.
_____
*Although he mentions several times where the denizens note that
he's in the flesh -- his weight threatens to sink Charon's boat,
he casts an opaque shadow, et cetera. But you are entirely free
to disbelieve him.

The newly deceased must bribe Charon to take them across the River Styx
in his boat. The bribe takes the form of an obol (coin), which is
traditionally placed in the mouth of the corpse. The Julius Caesar
character in the movie _Cleopatra_ mentions the coin in the mouth in
reference to Pompey. [1]

Pothinus. May I speak?
Julius Caesar. Not until you're spoken to. I'll require
rooms in the palace.
Pothinus. I shall consider myself honored to escort you.
Julius Caesar. Anyone but you. Find the rest of Pompey.
Tear out a thousand tongues, but find him. Have him purified...
...the coin in the mouth and the rest, honorably. Of course.

All of those obols collected over millennia add up to a tidy sum.
But they also weigh an unimaginable tonnage. If Charon keeps them all
his boat will founder. What to do?
"A Song for Charon" (Davin) has Charon throw the coins into the
Styx. But that doesn't really work because millennia of coin droppings
will eventually bridge the Styx with obol stepping stones. In the end,
the newly deceased simply traipse across the Styx on the stones made of
coin and Charon finds himself permanently out of a job.

Note.

1. https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=cleopatra-1963

Thank you,

--
Don

[David DeLaney]

Post by D B Davis
The newly deceased must bribe Charon to take them across the River Styx
in his boat. The bribe takes the form of an obol (coin), which is
traditionally placed in the mouth of the corpse.

Or two on the eyes. But that's the fee for the dead; it's different for those
there in the body, still alive.

Dave, obPortal reference

[D B Davis]

Post by David DeLaney

Post by D B Davis
The newly deceased must bribe Charon to take them across the River Styx
in his boat. The bribe takes the form of an obol (coin), which is
traditionally placed in the mouth of the corpse.

Or two on the eyes. But that's the fee for the dead; it's different for those
there in the body, still alive.
Dave, obPortal reference

They get in for a song, as they say.

*spoiler space*


Orpheus

Thank you,

--
Don

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by D B Davis

Post by David DeLaney

Post by D B Davis
The newly deceased must bribe Charon to take them across the River Styx
in his boat. The bribe takes the form of an obol (coin), which is
traditionally placed in the mouth of the corpse.

Or two on the eyes. But that's the fee for the dead; it's different for those
there in the body, still alive.
Dave, obPortal reference

They get in for a song, as they say.
*spoiler space*
Orpheus

I got something for a song, once ... or to be precise, a poem.

If you've been in Alaska, you may have seen diamond-willow staves
on sale in the airport shops, maybe three feet high and costing
several hundred dollars.

Several years ago, a friend emailed me at work to tell me of a
neat thing that had happened in the Anchorage branch of the SCA.
Somebody had promised to write a poem about it, and *never did.*
My friend suggested I fill the gap.

So I did, emailed it to my friend, who read it at the next local
event.

When I next saw him, a couple of months later, he had a
diamond-willow staff in his hand, made by the man the poem was
about, and presented it to me.

It's about five feet high. Heaven only knows what it would have
cost at the airport. I got it for a song.

[David DeLaney]

Post by D B Davis

Post by David DeLaney

Post by D B Davis
The newly deceased must bribe Charon to take them across the River Styx
in his boat. The bribe takes the form of an obol (coin), which is
traditionally placed in the mouth of the corpse.

Or two on the eyes. But that's the fee for the dead; it's different for those
there in the body, still alive.
Dave, obPortal reference

They get in for a song, as they say.
*spoiler space*

... I can't type a ctrl-L anymore? boo hiss
^L
ah, I can steal one from Wikipedia.
... don't judge me. this is what hapens with internet access so easy, kids.

Post by D B Davis
Orpheus

Careful there. He got past the DOG(s) with a song, He still had to pay the
ferryman.

Dave, holy moly!

[David Goldfarb]

Post by Anthony Nance
----------------------------------------------
Brust - Good Guys (March)
Yoon Ha Lee - Revenant Gun (Machineries of Empire #3) (June)

I overlap on these two. Some more of mine that aren't out yet:

The Labyrinth Index, Charles Stross
Record of a Spaceborn Few, Becky Chambers
Poor Relations, Jo Walton

I'm not sure if the fourth Terra Ignota book is coming out this year,
but if so then that one also.

Ones that I own and anticipate reading this year:

Beneath the Sugar Sky, Seanan McGuire
The Collapsing Empire, John Scalzi
Princess Holy Aura, Sea Wasp
Clockwork Boys, "T. Kingfisher"
Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror, Lawrence Watt-Evans

Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Anthony Nance
----------------------------------------------
Brust - Good Guys (March)
Yoon Ha Lee - Revenant Gun (Machineries of Empire #3) (June)

<some snipping>
Beneath the Sugar Sky, Seanan McGuire
The Collapsing Empire, John Scalzi
Princess Holy Aura, Sea Wasp
Clockwork Boys, "T. Kingfisher"

Iirc, this is Ursula Vernon. Where -- for text works --
is a good place to start with Vernon/Kingfisher?

Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror, Lawrence Watt-Evans

Yep - the Tom Derringers are on my "to be acquired" list.

Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

I'm hoping for one of two things, either:
1) I become more e-reader friendly; or
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.

Because I'd like to read them,
Tony

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or

His three (so far) novels are available on Google Books, which
even I can manage to read on my PC. I recommend you try the
first one, _A Succession of Bad Days_, and see if you can read it
on your PC/Mac/whatever.

Post by Anthony Nance
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.

Not likely. I love Graydon's work to distraction, but he is
caviare to the general, which is Shakespearean for 'not to most
people's taste.'

Post by Anthony Nance
Because I'd like to read them,

If you try and succeed, you will be richly rewarded. As I said
in a review a while back,

The illuminated pages of the Book of Kells are complex, colorful,
and bewildering. The reader can get lost in a tangle of images
for some time before realizing that the images are words, and the
words are _In principio erat Verbum...._ Graydon Saunders' prose
is like that. Confused on page one, the reader is plunged on
page two into a tangle of unexplained images; it's the wood where
things have no names, a jungle full of bright birds, spectacular
flowers, and intertwining vines, and not a machete or a compass
in sight. But the reader's persistence is rewarded: out of the
tangle of bright images emerges the Word.

[Bill Dugan]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or

His three (so far) novels are available on Google Books, which
even I can manage to read on my PC. I recommend you try the
first one, _A Succession of Bad Days_, and see if you can read it
on your PC/Mac/whatever.

_The March North_ is first, both in publication order and internal
chronology.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.

Not likely. I love Graydon's work to distraction, but he is
caviare to the general, which is Shakespearean for 'not to most
people's taste.'

Post by Anthony Nance
Because I'd like to read them,

If you try and succeed, you will be richly rewarded. As I said
in a review a while back,
The illuminated pages of the Book of Kells are complex, colorful,
and bewildering. The reader can get lost in a tangle of images
for some time before realizing that the images are words, and the
words are _In principio erat Verbum...._ Graydon Saunders' prose
is like that. Confused on page one, the reader is plunged on
page two into a tangle of unexplained images; it's the wood where
things have no names, a jungle full of bright birds, spectacular
flowers, and intertwining vines, and not a machete or a compass
in sight. But the reader's persistence is rewarded: out of the
tangle of bright images emerges the Word.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Bill Dugan

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or

His three (so far) novels are available on Google Books, which
even I can manage to read on my PC. I recommend you try the
first one, _A Succession of Bad Days_, and see if you can read it
on your PC/Mac/whatever.

_The March North_ is first, both in publication order and internal
chronology.

Arghhh! You are right, and I made an inexcusable thinko.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or

His three (so far) novels are available on Google Books, which
even I can manage to read on my PC. I recommend you try the
first one, _A Succession of Bad Days_, and see if you can read it
on your PC/Mac/whatever.

Post by Anthony Nance
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.

Not likely. I love Graydon's work to distraction, but he is
caviare to the general, which is Shakespearean for 'not to most
people's taste.'

Doesn't actually matter any more if an author wants to commit to self
publishing. Various places do fairly simple print-on-demand for
reasonable prices (purchaser pays about trade paperback prices say $15),
so it's more an issue of whether Graydon wants to go this route rather
than the "jam tomorrow" of standard publishing. Then add about a day or
two working on getting the tech details set up, he's well ahead of the
game by already having viable ebook editions.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The illuminated pages of the Book of Kells are complex, colorful,
and bewildering. The reader can get lost in a tangle of images
for some time before realizing that the images are words, and the
words are _In principio erat Verbum...._ Graydon Saunders' prose
is like that. Confused on page one, the reader is plunged on
page two into a tangle of unexplained images; it's the wood where
things have no names, a jungle full of bright birds, spectacular
flowers, and intertwining vines, and not a machete or a compass
in sight. But the reader's persistence is rewarded: out of the
tangle of bright images emerges the Word.

After having a hard time getting into the first book, the *second*
Commonweal title is a light, straightforward tale. Which continues
directly into book three, and immediately gets tricky again as all the
chickens set up in 2 come home to roost in all their complexity. Such
fun!
Cheers - Jaimie

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or

His three (so far) novels are available on Google Books, which
even I can manage to read on my PC. I recommend you try the
first one, _A Succession of Bad Days_, and see if you can read it
on your PC/Mac/whatever.

I just haven't found a way to enjoy reading a long/single work for
more than 15-20 minutes on an electronic device. Yet.

Not that I'm trying super hard, since I have a great many physical
books in the TBR pile.

Tony

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Clockwork Boys, "T. Kingfisher"

Iirc, this is Ursula Vernon. Where -- for text works --
is a good place to start with Vernon/Kingfisher?

A short short that's representative:
http://tkingfisher.com/?page_id=242

If you like vignettes and shorts, it is collected in _Toad Words And
Other Stories_ which is liberally scattered with flashes of brilliance.

Novel sized, about half of hers are retellings of fairy tails. _The
Seventh Bride_ is very good. If you'd rather something fully original,
_Summer in Orcus_ or _Nine Goblins_. Not _Clockwork boys_ as it's book
one of two and two ain't out yet.

If you like comics, then _Digger_ is still fully available on the web.
http://diggercomic.com/blog/2007/02/01/wombat1-gnorf/

She has *sensible* protagonists. Their characters are varied but remind
me of Pratchett and LWE's writing.

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.
Because I'd like to read them

I'd love them in paper in a Max Gladstone small-hardback style.

What's your situation with ebooks - no reader? You can pick up an older
Kindle/Kobo 2nd hand for very little, and even the oldest ones are still
pretty good. Or ask around friends/work, odds are high that someone will
have one kicking around in a drawer you could borrow.

If you have a large enough phone or a tablet and can cope with the
screen for long-term use, worth trying. I would not recommend using a
laptop or desktop for Graydon's work - too intense, you'll crick your
back or neck.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Clockwork Boys, "T. Kingfisher"

Iirc, this is Ursula Vernon. Where -- for text works --
is a good place to start with Vernon/Kingfisher?

http://tkingfisher.com/?page_id=242
If you like vignettes and shorts, it is collected in _Toad Words And
Other Stories_ which is liberally scattered with flashes of brilliance.
Novel sized, about half of hers are retellings of fairy tails. _The
Seventh Bride_ is very good. If you'd rather something fully original,
_Summer in Orcus_ or _Nine Goblins_. Not _Clockwork boys_ as it's book
one of two and two ain't out yet.
If you like comics, then _Digger_ is still fully available on the web.
http://diggercomic.com/blog/2007/02/01/wombat1-gnorf/
She has *sensible* protagonists. Their characters are varied but remind
me of Pratchett and LWE's writing.

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Graydon Saunders was talking about putting a book out last year, and
I don't think he managed it, so I'd anticipate at least one from him
this year.

1) I become more e-reader friendly; or
2) Graydon's books start showing up in print.
Because I'd like to read them

I'd love them in paper in a Max Gladstone small-hardback style.
What's your situation with ebooks - no reader? You can pick up an older
Kindle/Kobo 2nd hand for very little, and even the oldest ones are still
pretty good. Or ask around friends/work, odds are high that someone will
have one kicking around in a drawer you could borrow.
If you have a large enough phone or a tablet and can cope with the
screen for long-term use, worth trying. I would not recommend using a
laptop or desktop for Graydon's work - too intense, you'll crick your
back or neck.

I beg to differ. I read them via Google Books on my desktop and
have no back- or neck-problems.

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by David Goldfarb
Clockwork Boys, "T. Kingfisher"

Iirc, this is Ursula Vernon. Where -- for text works --
is a good place to start with Vernon/Kingfisher?

http://tkingfisher.com/?page_id=242
If you like vignettes and shorts, it is collected in _Toad Words And
Other Stories_ which is liberally scattered with flashes of brilliance.
Novel sized, about half of hers are retellings of fairy tails. _The
Seventh Bride_ is very good. If you'd rather something fully original,
_Summer in Orcus_ or _Nine Goblins_. Not _Clockwork boys_ as it's book
one of two and two ain't out yet.
If you like comics, then _Digger_ is still fully available on the web.
http://diggercomic.com/blog/2007/02/01/wombat1-gnorf/
She has *sensible* protagonists. Their characters are varied but remind
me of Pratchett and LWE's writing.

Thanks for all that - very helpful.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
What's your situation with ebooks - no reader?

No - I'm fine with hardware/software acquisition and set up.
The problem is that I don't enjoy more than 15-20 minutes of
reading on electronic devices.

Tony

[m***@sky.com]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly

(trimmed)
Drake's "Though Hell Should Bar the Way" is out in e-Arc already and I think general release is April. It's in his RCN series, but from the point of view of a new character, who has basically joined the ship as a Midshipman. As far as I can tell from the free portion on Baen, this works very well - you get a different view of the previous main characters, and more suspense as this guy isn't senior enough to be told more than the minimum he needs to know.

[William Hyde]

Post by Anthony Nance
Since it hasn't emerged from the other, older, similarly
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?

The New Horizons flyby of 2014 MU69. True, that happens in 2019, but as it is Jan 1 there won't be time to include it in a list of "things I am looking forward to in 2019, in 2019.

Books? My reading is pretty random. I do look forward to the new Tim Powers, whatever it is and whenever it arrives.

William Hyde

[Bice]

Post by Anthony Nance
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony

Well, since you asked...

I think I've mentioned here before that I considered myself fairly
well-read in sci-fi...until I started reading this newsgroup. I'm
practically a newbie compared to most folks who post here.

One of my goals for ages has been to read all the Hugo winning novels.
Over the last few decades I've read a few here and there. But when I
got an Amazon gift card and a $100 bill from my in-laws for Christmas,
I decided it was time to make a serious effort. So I hit Amazon and a
local used book store and ended up with:

Alfred Bester, The Demolished Man
Mark Clifton & Frank Riley, They'd Rather Be Right (Kindle version)
Robert Heinlein, A Heinlein Trio (contains Double Star)
Fritz Leiber, The Big Time (Kindle)
James Blish, A Case of Conscience (Kindle)
Clifford Simak, Way Station
Larry Niven, Ringworld
Ursula K. LeGuin, The Dispossessed
Joe Haldeman, The Forever War
Arthur C. Clarke, The Fountains of Paradise
David Brin, Startied Rising
William Gibson, Neuromancer
Dan Simmons, Hyperion
Vernor Vinge, A Deepness in the Sky
J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (my daughter's copy)
Neil Gaiman, American Gods
Lois McMaster Bujold, Paladin of Souls
Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell
Robert Charles Wilson, Spin
Vernor Vinge, Rainbow's End
John Scalzi, Redshirts

Here's a picture of all that piled up on my desk (with some of the
Hugo winners that I'd read previously piled on top):

Loading Image...

I doubt I'll get to it all in 2018, but I'm looking forward to reading
as much of it as I can find time for.

For the record, my previous Hugo reads are: The Sword in the Stone
(as part of The Once and Future King), Slan, The Mule (as part of the
Foundation trilogy), Farmer in the Sky (as part of a four-book
Heinlein collection), Fahrenheit 451 (actually I'm not entirely sure I
read the whole thing - my daughter had a school copy and I know I at
least started it before she had to return it), Stranger in a Strange
Land, Man in the High Castle, Dune, Rendezvous With Rama, Where Late
the Sweet Birds Sang (found abandoned in a conference room at work!),
Foundation's Edge, Ender's Game and Speaker For the Dead.

I know some of the ones in my current reading pile are sequels or part
of a series, so I'd like to get opinions on:

The Dispossessed - I've read that it's set in the same fictional
universe as Left Hand of Darkness (another Hugo winner), so should I
track that one down and read it first? Or does the order not matter?

Deepness in the Sky - this is a sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep, right?
Does it matter which order they're read in?

Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

I know Paladin of Souls is the sequel to The Curse of Chalion, and
fortunately the used book store had both of them. So I'm set there.

Should I be looking for The Vor Game, Barrayar and Mirror Dance, or
would it be better to buy the collections that contain them
(Cordelia's Honor, Young Miles and Miles Errant, I believe) to get the
surrounding stories? Do I also need to get Miles, Mystery and Mayhem
even though it doesn't contain any Hugo winners? I've been seeing
this series get a LOT of praise on this newsgroup, so I'm looking
forward to reading it.

I'd be glad to hear any other advice on tackling this project.

-- Bob

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Bice

Post by Anthony Nance
What are some of the things you are really truly looking
forward to reading in 2018?
I've put some of mine below, in two categories - works
expected to be released in 2018, and older works that
will be new to me.
Just curious,
Tony

Well, since you asked...
I think I've mentioned here before that I considered myself fairly
well-read in sci-fi...until I started reading this newsgroup. I'm
practically a newbie compared to most folks who post here.
One of my goals for ages has been to read all the Hugo winning novels.
Over the last few decades I've read a few here and there. But when I
got an Amazon gift card and a $100 bill from my in-laws for Christmas,
I decided it was time to make a serious effort. So I hit Amazon and a
Alfred Bester, The Demolished Man
Mark Clifton & Frank Riley, They'd Rather Be Right (Kindle version)
Robert Heinlein, A Heinlein Trio (contains Double Star)
Fritz Leiber, The Big Time (Kindle)
James Blish, A Case of Conscience (Kindle)
Clifford Simak, Way Station
Larry Niven, Ringworld
Ursula K. LeGuin, The Dispossessed
Joe Haldeman, The Forever War
Arthur C. Clarke, The Fountains of Paradise
David Brin, Startied Rising
William Gibson, Neuromancer
Dan Simmons, Hyperion
Vernor Vinge, A Deepness in the Sky
J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (my daughter's copy)
Neil Gaiman, American Gods
Lois McMaster Bujold, Paladin of Souls
Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell
Robert Charles Wilson, Spin
Vernor Vinge, Rainbow's End
John Scalzi, Redshirts
Here's a picture of all that piled up on my desk (with some of the
http://eichler.byethost11.com/Jan2018HugoPile.JPG
I doubt I'll get to it all in 2018, but I'm looking forward to reading
as much of it as I can find time for.
For the record, my previous Hugo reads are: The Sword in the Stone
(as part of The Once and Future King), Slan, The Mule (as part of the
Foundation trilogy), Farmer in the Sky (as part of a four-book
Heinlein collection), Fahrenheit 451 (actually I'm not entirely sure I
read the whole thing - my daughter had a school copy and I know I at
least started it before she had to return it), Stranger in a Strange
Land, Man in the High Castle, Dune, Rendezvous With Rama, Where Late
the Sweet Birds Sang (found abandoned in a conference room at work!),
Foundation's Edge, Ender's Game and Speaker For the Dead.
I know some of the ones in my current reading pile are sequels or part
The Dispossessed - I've read that it's set in the same fictional
universe as Left Hand of Darkness (another Hugo winner), so should I
track that one down and read it first? Or does the order not matter?
Deepness in the Sky - this is a sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep, right?
Does it matter which order they're read in?
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.
I know Paladin of Souls is the sequel to The Curse of Chalion, and
fortunately the used book store had both of them. So I'm set there.
Should I be looking for The Vor Game, Barrayar and Mirror Dance, or
would it be better to buy the collections that contain them
(Cordelia's Honor, Young Miles and Miles Errant, I believe) to get the
surrounding stories? Do I also need to get Miles, Mystery and Mayhem
even though it doesn't contain any Hugo winners? I've been seeing
this series get a LOT of praise on this newsgroup, so I'm looking
forward to reading it.
I'd be glad to hear any other advice on tackling this project.
-- Bob

Nice list !

The entire Harry Potter saga is a worthwhile read and should be Hugo for
the entire series. I ripped through my daughter's set in two weeks or
so IIRC.

The Vorkosigan series is awesome. Get it any way you can but read as
much as possible. My favorites are _Cordelia's Honor_ (the shopping
trip in _Barrayar_ in particular) and _A Civil Campaign_. Note, if all
men approached wooing women as a military campaign then the human
species would have faded away by now.

Lynn

[Moriarty]

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 9:55:34 AM UTC+11, Bice wrote:

<snip>

Post by Bice
I know some of the ones in my current reading pile are sequels or part
The Dispossessed - I've read that it's set in the same fictional
universe as Left Hand of Darkness (another Hugo winner), so should I
track that one down and read it first? Or does the order not matter?

Order doesn't matter.

Post by Bice
Deepness in the Sky - this is a sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep, right?
Does it matter which order they're read in?

Sort of. It's perfectly acceptable to read "Deepness" before "Fire" but I think certain emotional impacts of both are better if one has read "Fire" first.

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

Post by Bice
I know Paladin of Souls is the sequel to The Curse of Chalion, and
fortunately the used book store had both of them. So I'm set there.

Yes, read "Curse" before "Paladin". It's not strictly necessary, but reading them the other way round will introduce spoilers.

Post by Bice
Should I be looking for The Vor Game, Barrayar and Mirror Dance, or
would it be better to buy the collections that contain them
(Cordelia's Honor, Young Miles and Miles Errant, I believe) to get the
surrounding stories? Do I also need to get Miles, Mystery and Mayhem
even though it doesn't contain any Hugo winners? I've been seeing
this series get a LOT of praise on this newsgroup, so I'm looking
forward to reading it.

Buy the collections and read them in internal chronological order beginning with "Cordelia's Honor". That volume contains "Barrayar", one of the Hugos you want to read.

That "The Vor Game" won a Hugo at all is one of life's great mysteries. It's (IMHO) far and away the worst Vorkosigan book.

-Moriarty

[Bice]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

-- Bob

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

Eh. I'd always suggest reading the first* of a series instead of the
Hugo winner itself, and go from there as to your whims. What are you, a
robot? You can make those decisions!

Cheers - Jaimie

* Or whichever is commended as "best place to start"

[Moriarty]

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

As you know Bob, you're free to do as you wish. As Dorothy would say: "Latinus somethingus somethingus".

I will add that: even for a slow reader, the first three Harry Potter books will be read quickly. If it would take you a month to read, say, "A Deepness in the Sky", you'll finish the three HPs in half that time.

Whatever you choose: enjoy!

-Moriarty

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

As you know Bob, you're free to do as you wish. As Dorothy would say: "Latinus somethingus somethingus".
I will add that: even for a slow reader, the first three Harry Potter books will be read quickly. If it would take you a month to read, say, "A Deepness in the Sky", you'll finish the three HPs in half that time.
Whatever you choose: enjoy!
-Moriarty

The only really long HP book is the 7th book, _Harry Potter and the
Deathly Hallows (Book 7)_, and it is simply a spectacular book. BTW, I
have yet to read the 8th book.

Lynn

[Anthony Nance]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

As you know Bob, you're free to do as you wish. As Dorothy would say: "Latinus somethingus somethingus".
I will add that: even for a slow reader, the first three Harry Potter books will be read quickly. If it would take you a month to read, say, "A Deepness in the Sky", you'll finish the three HPs in half that time.
Whatever you choose: enjoy!
-Moriarty

The only really long HP book is the 7th book, _Harry Potter and the
Deathly Hallows (Book 7)_, and it is simply a spectacular book. BTW, I
have yet to read the 8th book.

Which one is the one where they spend 857 years in the woods?
That one was way too long.

Tony

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Moriarty

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you

can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

"Latinus somethingus somethingus".

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty
I will add that: even for a slow reader, the first three Harry Potter

books will be read quickly. If it would take you a month to read, say,
"A Deepness in the Sky", you'll finish the three HPs in half that time.

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty
Whatever you choose: enjoy!
-Moriarty

The only really long HP book is the 7th book, _Harry Potter and the
Deathly Hallows (Book 7)_, and it is simply a spectacular book. BTW, I
have yet to read the 8th book.

Which one is the one where they spend 857 years in the woods?
That one was way too long.
Tony

And during that extended camping trip, all sorts of interesting stuff
was apparently happening with Neville & Hogwarts but we never got to see it..

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Anthony Nance

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:40:31 -0800 (PST), Moriarty

Post by Moriarty

Post by Bice
Harry Pott...ah, who am I kidding? I'm not reading the whole damn
Harry Potter saga just to get to that one Hugo winner. I'll just ask
my daughter to fill me in on any necessary back story. Or watch the
movies since she has them all on DVD.

Read them in order. The first three books are short enough that you can almost read them faster than you can watch the DVD.

That's two votes for reading the entire Harry Potter series...but I
don't read very fast, partly because I rarely have time to sit and
read and partly because I'm just a fairly slow reader. I'm lucky if I
can get through a book a month. Based on what I've seen of the
movies, I don't think I want to spend half a year reading the Harry
Potter series. Not with that big pile of other books that I'd
probably enjoy more just waiting to be read.

As you know Bob, you're free to do as you wish. As Dorothy would say: "Latinus somethingus somethingus".
I will add that: even for a slow reader, the first three Harry Potter books will be read quickly. If it would take you a month to read, say, "A Deepness in the Sky", you'll finish the three HPs in half that time.
Whatever you choose: enjoy!
-Moriarty

The only really long HP book is the 7th book, _Harry Potter and the
Deathly Hallows (Book 7)_, and it is simply a spectacular book. BTW, I
have yet to read the 8th book.

Which one is the one where they spend 857 years in the woods?
That one was way too long.
Tony

Hallows. It was a period of utter despondency and she beat you over the
head with it until you brutally understood how bad things were.

Lynn

[Bice]

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

-- Bob

[James Nicoll]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

It works as a stand alone. In fact, while reading it you may get the sense
it follows directly on an earlier work. It does not. That was just a stylistic
thing Brin had back then.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

Sundiver is set 2290. Startide is set 2530, I think.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it
work as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and
read that one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

All of the ones that don't suck throbbing purple donkey dick stand
alone pretty well, and for all of Brin's raging narcissism, the man
can (or could, at least, before the Uplift trilogy) write.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

It is my impression that there is one character in common between
_Sundiver_ and _The Uplift War_ (or perhaps the individual who made a
brief appearance in _The Uplift War_ had a very similar name to the one
in _Sundiver_).

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

It is my impression that there is one character in common between
_Sundiver_ and _The Uplift War_ (or perhaps the individual who made a
brief appearance in _The Uplift War_ had a very similar name to the one
in _Sundiver_).

More to the point, at least one character in _Startide Rising_
eeventually reappears in the second trilogy. It's nice to know
what happened to him, sort of; but not worth reading the second
trilogy, IMO.

[William Hyde]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

In my opinion, it works stand-alone. Followed by the uplift
war. I didn't read sundiver until much later, and while it's
set in the same universe, I don't recall any character overlap.

It is my impression that there is one character in common between
_Sundiver_ and _The Uplift War_ (or perhaps the individual who made a
brief appearance in _The Uplift War_ had a very similar name to the one
in _Sundiver_).

More to the point, at least one character in _Startide Rising_
eeventually reappears in the second trilogy. It's nice to know
what happened to him, sort of; but not worth reading the second
trilogy, IMO.

I really did like most of the second trilogy. Taken for itself, I thought the first two-thirds of it to be good, if at times rather slow.

Of course, if you were waiting for answers to the questions raised in the first trilogy, you'd replace "slow" with "not moving at all" and be very frustrated.

I suspect people would like the second trilogy, or at least the first two books thereof, if only they read it first.

William Hyde

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?
-- Bob

Personally I would say you should read _Startide Rising_. And stop.
Great book, but for some reason Brin decided to take the series off
a cliff rather than really follow up on it.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?
-- Bob

Personally I would say you should read _Startide Rising_. And stop.
Great book, but for some reason Brin decided to take the series off
a cliff rather than really follow up on it.

I really liked _The Uplift War_ even more than _Startide_. Could have
done without the Jijo books, and _Sundiver_ didn't do much for me
because it's an idiot plot.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?
-- Bob

Personally I would say you should read _Startide Rising_. And stop.
Great book, but for some reason Brin decided to take the series off
a cliff rather than really follow up on it.

I really liked _The Uplift War_ even more than _Startide_. Could have
done without the Jijo books, and _Sundiver_ didn't do much for me
because it's an idiot plot.
Cheers - Jaimie

I actually did like the second trilogy pretty well up until near the
end where the whole "memetic space" and "embrace of tides" stuff kicked in,
which kind of retroactively ruined the first two books for me.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
I really liked _The Uplift War_ even more than _Startide_. Could have
done without the Jijo books, and _Sundiver_ didn't do much for me
because it's an idiot plot.
Cheers - Jaimie

I actually did like the second trilogy pretty well up until near the
end where the whole "memetic space" and "embrace of tides" stuff kicked in,
which kind of retroactively ruined the first two books for me.

I think I'd have liked the two Jijo books, ie 4 and 5, if I wasn't
continuously expecting to get back to the Streaker storyline and never
got resolution. The sixth book just went off the rails, made no sense
and retroactively made unreliable the worldbuilding in the prior books.
*And* should have had more books after, with all those unresolved
threads.

It's like Brin jumped off to start a third trilogy, ie book 7 instead of
book 6, and then never did book 6 or 8/9.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

You had better read _The Uplift War_ before _Startide Rising_.
_Sundiver_ takes place a good many years before the other two,
and isn't necessary to the plot ... though it fills in some
backstory and has a couple of ingenious gimmicks in it.

Brin then wrote a second trilogy of Uplift stories, which in my
opinion aren't worth reading. YMMV. I would give you their
names but I can't remember them; however, ISFDB will list them.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

You had better read _The Uplift War_ before _Startide Rising_.
_Sundiver_ takes place a good many years before the other two,
and isn't necessary to the plot ... though it fills in some
backstory and has a couple of ingenious gimmicks in it.
Brin then wrote a second trilogy of Uplift stories, which in my
opinion aren't worth reading. YMMV. I would give you their
names but I can't remember them; however, ISFDB will list them.
--

Hmm. Totally disagree. _The Uplift War_ was published after _Startide
Rising_, and there's absolutely no reason to read it first. (Especially
since though it is good, it is not as good as SR).

[Greg Goss]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

The three books of the first trilogy stand entirely on their own.
Startide reads like a sequel, but the book it descends from was never
written.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Bice

David Brin, Startide Rising

I just noticed that this one is also part of a series. Does it work
as a standalone story, or should I look for _Sundiver_ and read that
one first?

It's a much-less-connected trilogy that the second one. _Sundiver_ is set a
couple of centuries before _Startide Rising_, but the latter works as an
introduction to the craziness that is the #NUMBER Galaxies and its
Libraryocracy. [Hint: They do not like it that the human race apparently has
no Patron at all that uplifted them into sapience. At all. They _really_ do
not like it when a starship of humans and their two uplifted client races make
a Galaxy-shattering unprecedented discovery. Cue Benny Hill chase music IN
SPAAAACE!; about a month later, the book starts in media astrae.]

So no, reading _Sundiver_ first, while informative and entertaining, is in no
way required. Similarly, you _could_ start The Uplift War without having read
the first two, you just wouldn't have previous knowledge of the setting to get
you oriented and familiar.

Dave

[Bice]

Post by Bice
One of my goals for ages has been to read all the Hugo winning novels.

I found another used book store about a half hour drive from my house
that has a big sci-fi section, and just by coincidence they happened
to be having a 33% off sale on all used sci-fi books this week. So I
walked out with:

Paolo Bacigalupi, _The Windup Girl_ (large format paperback)
C.J. Cherryh, _Downbelow Station_ (hardcover)
Philip Jose Farmer, _ToYour Scattered Bodies Go_ (large paperback)
Fritz Leiber, _The Big Time_ (hardcover)
Fritz Leiber, _The Wanderer_ (hardcover)
Vonda N. McIntyre, _Dreamsnake_ (paperback)
Walter M. Miller, _A Canticle For Leibowitz_ (paperback)
Robert J. Sawyer, _Hominids_ (paperback)
Connie Willis, _Doomsday Book_ (paperback)

I also bought a brand-new looking hardback edition of _The Once and
Future King_ which I didn't really need since I have it in paperback
and just read it recently, but for $5.36 (after discount) I couldn't
resist it.

Grand total price came to just under $40 for the whole stack. I might
have to go back before the sale ends on Sunday.

Pretty nice little store called Cupboard Maker Books near Harrisburg,
PA. If you ever find yourself driving on interstate 81 through
central PA, it's worth taking a couple mile detour to check out.

http://www.cupboardmaker.com/

The have books painted on the outside walls of the building, and one
of them is _Fahrenheit 451_ which is one of the Hugos I'm looking
for...and ironically they didn't have a copy.

Word of warning - the owner is a cat person and she has a few of them
roaming around the store at all times. She'll also talk your ear off
if you get into a conversation about books with her.

-- Bob