Discussion:
Undeservedly famous
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The Zygon
2018-04-14 04:44:41 UTC
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I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.

One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.

I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.

But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
David Johnston
2018-04-14 05:30:44 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.

And looking through this list

https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books

I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-14 10:44:11 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.

I've just read _Planetfall_ by Emma Newman and, even
aside from the narrator's issues, I was reminded of lines
from _The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy_:

Spaceship captain: "We're going to colonise another planet!"

Hitch hiker, who has seen the colonists: "What, with that lot?"
J. Clarke
2018-04-14 14:16:30 UTC
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 03:44:11 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
_The Road_ won the Pulitzer, it's certified Lit Her A Tour.

IMO the pickings must have been pretty slim that year--it reads like a
side-quest in Fallout, only less logical and with worse
world-building.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I've just read _Planetfall_ by Emma Newman and, even
aside from the narrator's issues, I was reminded of lines
Spaceship captain: "We're going to colonise another planet!"
Hitch hiker, who has seen the colonists: "What, with that lot?"
Juho Julkunen
2018-04-14 18:40:38 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
@gmail.com says...
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 03:44:11 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
_The Road_ won the Pulitzer, it's certified Lit Her A Tour.
IMO the pickings must have been pretty slim that year--it reads like a
side-quest in Fallout, only less logical and with worse
world-building.
Most unfortunately it then went on to influence Fallout 3, to its
detriment.
--
Juho Julkunen
a***@yahoo.com
2018-04-15 02:28:07 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
_The Road_ won the Pulitzer, it's certified Lit Her A Tour.
Ever Read Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem? After reading that, I just don't see any way I could possibly read "The Road" if it is anything as mundane as the movie. Jonathan reminds us nicely that the apocalypse ought to be strange.
Titus G
2018-04-15 03:19:13 UTC
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Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
_The Road_ won the Pulitzer, it's certified Lit Her A Tour.
Ever Read Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem? After reading that, I just don't see any way I could possibly read "The Road" if it is anything as mundane as the movie. Jonathan reminds us nicely that the apocalypse ought to be strange.
I have read and enjoyed allMcCarthy's novels. I rated The Road below his
average but rather than mundane, I recall it as dreary and forlorn,
lacking hope but without the excitement of panic and desperation that
fuels interest in much SF so I think the post apocalypse mood was well
expressed reinforced by the ending. I have no wish to see the movie but
would recommend the book.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-04-15 16:10:47 UTC
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Post by Titus G
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
_The Road_ won the Pulitzer, it's certified Lit Her A Tour.
Ever Read Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem? After reading that, I just don't see any way I could possibly read "The Road" if it is anything as mundane as the movie. Jonathan reminds us nicely that the apocalypse ought to be strange.
I have read and enjoyed allMcCarthy's novels. I rated The Road below his
average but rather than mundane, I recall it as dreary and forlorn,
lacking hope but without the excitement of panic and desperation that
fuels interest in much SF so I think the post apocalypse mood was well
expressed reinforced by the ending. I have no wish to see the movie but
would recommend the book.
I liked Blood Meridian, but I haven't read any of his other novels. I still don't think I will read The Road.
The Zygon
2018-04-15 07:37:10 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
I've just read _Planetfall_ by Emma Newman and, even
aside from the narrator's issues, I was reminded of lines
Spaceship captain: "We're going to colonise another planet!"
Hitch hiker, who has seen the colonists: "What, with that lot?"
_Childhood's End_ is a great classic. But I suspect that were it written today, it would be rejected by the publishers. It is from the days when writers were more sci fi enthusiasts than writers.
The Zygon
2018-04-15 07:38:41 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
I've just read _Planetfall_ by Emma Newman and, even
aside from the narrator's issues, I was reminded of lines
Spaceship captain: "We're going to colonise another planet!"
Hitch hiker, who has seen the colonists: "What, with that lot?"
Thanks for the news on _The Foundation_ series coming up. Do you know when it is supposed to air?
David Johnston
2018-04-15 14:43:17 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Some I haven't read, some I may have not heard of before now;
plenty made as films; going not by reading but by what's said
about them, the ones that I don't see the point of are
_The Road_ and _Childhood's End_.
I've just read _Planetfall_ by Emma Newman and, even
aside from the narrator's issues, I was reminded of lines
Spaceship captain: "We're going to colonise another planet!"
Hitch hiker, who has seen the colonists: "What, with that lot?"
Thanks for the news on _The Foundation_ series coming up. Do you know when it is supposed to air?
It's not going to air. It will be on Apple's proprietary service.
Jack Bohn
2018-04-16 00:26:55 UTC
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Thanks for the news on _The Foundation_ series coming up.   Do you know when it is supposed to air?
I think of myself as out on the planet Pluto when it comes to "news," but here's what I know.
There's "on the schedule," whatever Apple's release schedule would be. There's "in production," which means they're spending real money and getting footage to show for it, so they'll try to release it somehow. There's "in development," where they're spending what seems to be an unconscionable amount of money deciding what to do if they go into production. The Foundation Trilogy is "in development," and has been for years, if not decades. About 2014, it was in development for HBO's proprietary service. (I see I commentted that they could add the sex and nudity from their "Rome" series.) Before that, it was in development as a series of movies around the same time as "The Lord of the Rings".

Personally, I think it goes until they find the closest thing to a space battle is vague description of a story told at a reception.
--
-Jack
Default User
2018-04-14 23:35:02 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful
of Prachett and will never read anything he writes again.
Unless things change, that's probably true of everyone.



Brian
David Johnston
2018-04-15 00:44:22 UTC
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Post by Default User
Post by David Johnston
Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful
of Prachett and will never read anything he writes again.
Unless things change, that's probably true of everyone.
Brian
I did not read everything he wrote or even half of it.
Default User
2018-04-15 23:03:14 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Default User
Post by David Johnston
Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful
of Prachett and will never read anything he writes again.
Unless things change, that's probably true of everyone.
I did not read everything he wrote or even half of it.
You said "anything he writes" not "anything he has written".


Brian
The Zygon
2018-04-15 07:35:05 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
Thanks a lot for the link. I have almost all those books. I have _Lord Foul's Bane_ on my re-read list. And I noticed that the underwhelming _Fahrenheit 451_ is on the list.
Moriarty
2018-04-15 23:21:17 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
I'm just wondering what the hell Harry Potter and Narnia are doing not on it. I know we often argue about what is or isn't science fiction and fantasy but I'd struggle to come up with any definition that didn't include those two.

I suppose it's possible that no-one voted for either but I highly doubt that, particularly HP. That list was compiled in 2011, the year that the film series came to an end. It was also only a year after the third installment in the Narnia movies came out.

-Moriarty
Anthony Nance
2018-04-15 23:39:17 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by David Johnston
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Well obviously I despise Lord Foul's Bane...but that's not rare. I
think that more people have read that without liking it than any other
sf book I know of. Perhaps it's odder that I've had a bellyful of
Prachett and will never read anything he writes again. About three or
four books into the Sword of Truth I threw the latest one against the
wall denouncing it as "Randite nonsense" and stopped reading him as well.
And looking through this list
https://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books
I'm just wondering what the hell Shannara is doing on it. I don't hate
it but it seriously doesn't belong in that company.
I'm just wondering what the hell Harry Potter and Narnia are doing not on it. I know we often argue about what is or isn't science fiction and fantasy but I'd struggle to come up with any definition that didn't include those two.
I suppose it's possible that no-one voted for either but I highly doubt that, particularly HP. That list was compiled in 2011, the year that the film series came to an end. It was also only a year after the third installment in the Narnia movies came out.
-Moriarty
They probably classified them as "young adult", which they said they were
going to do at some future date. (I don't recall if they did or not.)

Tony
Jack Bohn
2018-04-14 13:16:41 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but
...
Post by The Zygon
at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.
I like The Foundation Trilogy as much as the next, but every time I hear Hollywood is trying to adapt it, I'm just ... no.
(Apple has it now, for a "Game of Thrones"-like series ... just, no.)
In this case I think it's other people who don't understand the books.


In an outside discussion, someone is asking how Harlan Ellison gets such a pass on being a jerk. I haven't contributed, realising the only thing I could say would be, "He's not like that all the time," or, "He did give us '___'," but I'm not sure what story or stories to put in that blank.
--
-Jack
David Johnston
2018-04-14 17:28:36 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but
...
Post by The Zygon
at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.
I like The Foundation Trilogy as much as the next, but every time I hear Hollywood is trying to adapt it, I'm just ... no.
(Apple has it now, for a "Game of Thrones"-like series ... just, no.)
In this case I think it's other people who don't understand the books.
In an outside discussion, someone is asking how Harlan Ellison gets such a pass on being a jerk. I haven't contributed, realising the only thing I could say would be, "He's not like that all the time," or, "He did give us '___'," but I'm not sure what story or stories to put in that blank.
Repent Harlequin Said The Ticktockman. Also the first draft of City On
The Edge of Forever.
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-15 03:34:14 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but
...
Post by The Zygon
at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.
I like The Foundation Trilogy as much as the next, but every time I hear Hollywood is trying to adapt it, I'm just ... no.
(Apple has it now, for a "Game of Thrones"-like series ... just, no.)
In this case I think it's other people who don't understand the books.
In an outside discussion, someone is asking how Harlan Ellison gets such a pass on being a jerk. I haven't contributed, realising the only thing I could say would be, "He's not like that all the time," or, "He did give us '___'," but I'm not sure what story or stories to put in that blank.
_Vic and Blood_. The final paragraph of the original story is either
priceless or one of the greatest sins of literature ever. *burp*
https://www.amazon.com/Vic-Blood-Stories-Harlan-Ellison/dp/1497643317/

Lynn
Garrett Wollman
2018-04-14 16:37:45 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-14 16:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
As Tolkien said of his work:

"_The Lord of the Rings_
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Is one of those things.
If you like, it you do;
If you don't you boo."
Dimensional Traveler
2018-04-14 21:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
"_The Lord of the Rings_
I think you hit 'send' too soon, Dorothy.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-14 21:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
"_The Lord of the Rings_
I think you hit 'send' too soon, Dorothy.
I think so too. Sorry.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2018-04-15 02:37:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
"_The Lord of the Rings_
I think you hit 'send' too soon, Dorothy.
I think so too. Sorry.
Well, don't keep us in suspense. What _did_ Tolkien say about his work?

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 02:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quadibloc
Well, don't keep us in suspense. What _did_ Tolkien say about his work?
I repeat, somewhat more togetherish:

"_The Lord of the Rings_
Is one of those things.
If you like it, you do;
If you don't you boo."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2018-04-15 02:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
"_The Lord of the Rings_
You weren't thinking of Tolkien's rather scathing barb at some of his early reviewers:

"Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it
boring, absurd, or contemptible, and I have no cause to complain, since I have
similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently
prefer."

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 02:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
"_The Lord of the Rings_
"Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it
boring, absurd, or contemptible, and I have no cause to complain, since I have
similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently
prefer."
Yup. He could turn a mean phrase, Tolkien could.

"Tolkien's mind was one of unmatchable subtlety, not without a
streak of deliberate guile."

T. A. Shippey, The Road to Middle-Earth, p. 4.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Scott Lurndal
2018-04-15 01:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
Hear! Hear!
David DeLaney
2018-04-15 06:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Garrett Wollman
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the end.
Hear! Hear!
If you get the urge again? Try reading the Appendices first, maybe. Or just
the first story in the Silmarillion (there's four pieces parts to the book).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 14:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Garrett Wollman
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the end.
Hear! Hear!
If you get the urge again? Try reading the Appendices first, maybe. Or just
the first story in the Silmarillion (there's four pieces parts to the book).
_The Silmarillion_ is the Bible for Elves. I have no idea
whether someone who repeatedly bounces of _LotR_ would like it,
but I suppose it's worth a try.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
The Zygon
2018-04-15 07:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
LOTR is the sci fi _War And Peace_.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 14:49:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Zygon
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
LOTR is the sci fi _War And Peace_.
Hm. If I had ever read the original _War and Peace_, I'd be in a
position to comment on that. I haven't, so I won't.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jack Bohn
2018-04-15 23:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
LOTR is the sci fi _War And Peace_. 
Hm.  If I had ever read the original _War and Peace_, I'd be in a 
position to comment on that.  I haven't, so I won't. 
The joke is that it is the fact that you *have* read The Lord of the Rings that debars you from comment!
--
-Jack
Quadibloc
2018-04-16 02:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jack Bohn
LOTR is the sci fi _War And Peace_. 
Hm.  If I had ever read the original _War and Peace_, I'd be in a 
position to comment on that.  I haven't, so I won't. 
The joke is that it is the fact that you *have* read The Lord of the Rings that debars you from comment!
I remember a friend telling me that the book she was assigned to read in high
school one week was The Lord of the Rings. I responded with the query: "And what
book did they assign you to read _next_ week, _War and Peace_?"...

The Tolkien work that is assigned as reading in Alberta high schools, of course,
is instead The Hobbit, so the mistake was understandable.

But as anyone can see, whether or not they've read *either* book, is that both
have large page counts.

John Savard
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 11:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
I think Tolkein has to be first read at a certain age. I didn't read
it at that age because I was reading not-fantasy. Reading it later
just didn't work for me.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 14:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Seriously, JRRT. The third time I put down LoTR less than halfway
through, I gave up on any prospect of making it all the way to the
end.
I think Tolkein has to be first read at a certain age. I didn't read
it at that age because I was reading not-fantasy. Reading it later
just didn't work for me.
Whereas I didn't discover Tolkien till I was in graduate school
and (as I've said elsewhere) discovered it in the *Children's
Section* of the Education/Psychology Library at UCB. I don't
even remember why I was browsing in that section, either.

But when I did, I was hooked. I took the first two volumes home
for the weekend, figuring they would last me that time and
longer. By Sunday afternoon I had finished _The Two Towers_
and the E/P Library wasn't open on Sundays. I imagined all kinds
of ways of getting Frodo out of Minas Morgul, none of which in
any way resembled what Tolkien actually did, and I've forgotten
what they were. :)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Steve Dodds
2018-04-14 19:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-14 21:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Quadibloc
2018-04-15 02:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Unlike Heinlein's *later* works, though, Stranger in a Strange Land was not so bad
that its publication was an unfortunate event.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 02:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Unlike Heinlein's *later* works, though, Stranger in a Strange Land was not so bad
that its publication was an unfortunate event.
You are entitled to your opinion, as I to mine.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Lynn McGuire
2018-04-15 03:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???

_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-04-15 03:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
Lynn
Personally I loved TEFL; it's just not a novel. _Friday_ was not bad though
it kind of ran out of steam iirc. IWFNE I liked in parts, but I couldn't
really get past the fantasy aspect of the woman's mind remaing after her
brain had been swapped out. If I'm remembering that right. Been a while.

I've been saving _Job_ and _Cat_ (and _The Door Into Summer_) for some point
in the future.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 05:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
Lynn
Personally I loved TEFL; it's just not a novel. _Friday_ was not bad though
it kind of ran out of steam iirc. IWFNE I liked in parts, but I couldn't
really get past the fantasy aspect of the woman's mind remaing after her
brain had been swapped out. If I'm remembering that right. Been a while.
I've been saving _Job_ and _Cat_ (and _The Door Into Summer_) for some point
in the future.
Read _Door_ now and forget the other two.

(Again, IMO. When I reread _Door_ I tend to skip the whole first
section until the protagonist wakes from cold-sleep the first
time. This allows me to reach the scene quickly wherein the
girlfriend from hell gets her comeuppance.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
D B Davis
2018-04-16 00:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snip>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Personally I loved TEFL; it's just not a novel. _Friday_ was not bad though
it kind of ran out of steam iirc. IWFNE I liked in parts, but I couldn't
really get past the fantasy aspect of the woman's mind remaing after her
brain had been swapped out. If I'm remembering that right. Been a while.
I've been saving _Job_ and _Cat_ (and _The Door Into Summer_) for some point
in the future.
Read _Door_ now and forget the other two.
(Again, IMO. When I reread _Door_ I tend to skip the whole first
section until the protagonist wakes from cold-sleep the first
time. This allows me to reach the scene quickly wherein the
girlfriend from hell gets her comeuppance.)
Amen to _Door_. (_Job_ and _Cat_ remain unread by me.)
_Door_'s femme fatale is sorry that she got busted as a two-timer,
but she's not sorry she two-timed. She's sorry that DB spurned her, but
she's not sorry she made herself available to DB. She plays the odds.
She probably bitterly respects DB for having the sense to spurn her.
Ted, TEFL is more of a story collection than a stand-alone novel?
That might explain my difficultly in reading it all the way through. My
expectation with a novel is that after a few chapters the larger plot
reveals itself. And the larger plot of TEFL never reveals itself to me.
Perhaps if each chapter in TEFL is treated as a stand-alone the
collection will become readable to me. That's how _Neutron Star_ (Niven)
and other Niven collections work for me. There's no expectations of a
larger plot in the first place so there's no frustration when it fails
to appear.

Thank you,

--
Don
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 11:45:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
Lynn
Personally I loved TEFL; it's just not a novel. _Friday_ was not bad though
it kind of ran out of steam iirc. IWFNE I liked in parts, but I couldn't
really get past the fantasy aspect of the woman's mind remaing after her
brain had been swapped out. If I'm remembering that right. Been a while.
You're supposed to eventually conclude that he's imagining the whole
thing.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
David Johnston
2018-04-15 05:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
  I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell.  And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list.  And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
Could have used a plot.
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
<snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse
for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 05:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
  I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell.  And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list.  And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
Could have used a plot.
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
<snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse
for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch.
Yeah. Dirty old man gets him/herself pregnant. Yucch, p'uti, and
also feh.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Johnston
2018-04-15 14:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
  I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell.  And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list.  And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
Could have used a plot.
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
<snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse
for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch.
Yeah. Dirty old man gets him/herself pregnant. Yucch, p'uti, and
also feh.
Yes, one of several works by him in which his protagonist gets his
incest on. But even apart from that, not one of his better works.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 05:09:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Zygon
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people
know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
Post by The Zygon
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
_Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
_Fahrenheit 451_.
Post by The Zygon
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid
them.
Post by The Zygon
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put
it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked
it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name
could sell anything, including his laundry list. And
unfortunately, he was right.
Post by The Zygon
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
Bad.
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
Still bad.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 11:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by The Zygon
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
I liked Friday, except for the conclusion. It would work better for
me if you tore out the last three pages or so and lamented that he
never finished it.
Post by Lynn McGuire
_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future,
brain transfer of the old into the young.
I liked that one.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Garrett Wollman
2018-04-15 16:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by The Zygon
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
_Friday_ ???
I liked Friday, except for the conclusion. It would work better for
me if you tore out the last three pages or so and lamented that he
never finished it.
I liked FRIDAY when I first read it, ages ago, but I haven't felt the
urge to reread it in at least two decades. Of course, it was the
first Heinlein I ever read. (I found the paperback at a school book
fair. Yes, with THAT cover. Don't know how that made it past the
nuns.)

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
The Zygon
2018-04-15 07:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
The think a liked best about the book, is that it is the first time I encountered the word "discorporation". For some reason, I love that word.
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 11:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
Ditto. Even in the late Heinleins, I liked some of the stuff, but
Stranger was just meh.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
David Johnston
2018-04-15 14:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger
in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept
thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to
get better any minuet now.
Ditto. Even in the late Heinleins, I liked some of the stuff, but
Stranger was just meh.
I found SIASL thoroughly comprehensible and not as deep as it purported
to be.
Quadibloc
2018-04-15 02:30:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Zygon
And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of
work.

He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently
published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps".

While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it
was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead
of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold
War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be
taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very
famous works.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-04-15 02:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:30:09 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by The Zygon
And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of
work.
He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently
published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps".
While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it
was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead
of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold
War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be
taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very
famous works.
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading. And both the left and
the right extremes have books they don't want people to read.
David Johnston
2018-04-15 05:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:30:09 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by The Zygon
And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of
work.
He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently
published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps".
While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it
was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead
of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold
War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be
taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very
famous works.
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment,
and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.


And both the left and
Post by J. Clarke
the right extremes have books they don't want people to read.
Same as it ever was.
David DeLaney
2018-04-15 06:49:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.

Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
J. Clarke
2018-04-15 12:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
David Johnston
2018-04-15 14:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-04-15 17:50:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 20:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I have thousands of books, most of which never got unpacked after the
1998 move. Some of them got unpacked in 2003, just in time for the
sudden move to Toronto. The shelves got assembled but no books on
them just in time for the sudden move FROM Toronto. Shelves got
assembled and one box got unpacked in the current place before I got
pre-occupied with my late wife's illness. By the time I had time
again, I was hooked on e-reading.

I do most of my reading on my phone. I have a Kobo Mini that I keep
around in case I need to do reading in sunlight. It replaced a
previous mini and two Sonys (first one died within warranty, second
less than another year later. Bah sony quality.)

The problem is that I find cracking books to work in my usable phone
reader to be a nuisance. And so many of the books have never been
released in e-book. I had to go pirate to read Ringworld Throne,
which is book three in a series of five. How can they keep publishing
sequels to a book that they refuse to sell? (Three finished poorly.
I consider 3 and 4 to be a split single novel.)
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 20:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Johnston
2018-04-15 21:04:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-15 21:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
J. Clarke
2018-04-15 21:19:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 22:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
David Johnston
2018-04-15 22:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 23:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
and bigger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility. Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Greg Goss
2018-04-16 01:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility. Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
In any reasonable reader, the text will reflow on a font size adjust.
Note that PDF doesn't SUPPORT any reasonable readers.

I'm always twitching the font size up or down a bit depending on
ambient light and how tired I am. I don't even think of it any more
than I think of adjusting the volume on my car stereo.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
J. Clarke
2018-04-16 01:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
and bigger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility. Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
This hasn't been an issue for me using either Kindle Cloud Reader or
the Kindle App.. They adjust the text to stay within the margins. The
largest font in the Kindle App is about an inch high on my big screen
but I can zoom windows to get it several times that large.
Joy Beeson
2018-04-16 01:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility. Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.

Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
page "designers" disable wrapping.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
nuny@bid.nes
2018-04-16 02:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
and bigger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility. Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
I've been bitching about my cataracts for a while now. The retinal detachment in my right eye made it almost impossible for me to read anything without taking my glasses off and rubbing my nose on it (I'm very nearsighted in my remaining eye and yes, lens replacement is covered by my insurance and will be done when I get some other issues handled). Anyway, my stepson and daughter-in-law got tired of hearing me bitch and gave me a spare 32" flatscreen TV to echo my 19" laptop screen onto, and with a USB mouse and keyboard I'm a happier camper.

Now, I'm very glad I had the foresight(!) to get a laptop with an HDMI port when I was looking for a discount computer.


Mark L. Fergerson
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 22:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <***@kithrup.com> wrote:

Ooops, forgot the footnote.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
______
*I get a cataract taken out in August. My life is so *full* of
doctors.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Greg Goss
2018-04-16 01:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Ooops, forgot the footnote.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
______
*I get a cataract taken out in August. My life is so *full* of
doctors.
I got my cataracts removed in 2011. The replacement lenses are set
for distance view - driving. So I LOST the ability to read stuff from
1.5 inches out. I used to be able to darn near read microfilm. I
made quick reverence pages of stuff I needed at four point at my job
in the nineties.

Now, even with reading glasses, I have trouble with anything below 8
point.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-16 01:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Ooops, forgot the footnote.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
______
*I get a cataract taken out in August. My life is so *full* of
doctors.
I got my cataracts removed in 2011. The replacement lenses are set
for distance view - driving. So I LOST the ability to read stuff from
1.5 inches out.
That's what I'm afraid of. That's why I postponed the surgery
till August; I have several embroidery projects hanging fire that
I wans to get DONE before I can no longer do any close work.
Post by Greg Goss
Now, even with reading glasses, I have trouble with anything below 8
point.
Now, imagine trying to make stitches a millimeter long, side by
side so as to cover an area solidly.

Dammit, I should be working on the project-at-the-top-of-the-list
right now, instead of reading USENET!
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Greg Goss
2018-04-16 01:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I get a cataract taken out in August. My life is so *full* of
doctors.
I got my cataracts removed in 2011. The replacement lenses are set
for distance view - driving. So I LOST the ability to read stuff from
1.5 inches out.
That's what I'm afraid of. That's why I postponed the surgery
till August; I have several embroidery projects hanging fire that
I wans to get DONE before I can no longer do any close work.
Post by Greg Goss
Now, even with reading glasses, I have trouble with anything below 8
point.
Now, imagine trying to make stitches a millimeter long, side by
side so as to cover an area solidly.
Dammit, I should be working on the project-at-the-top-of-the-list
right now, instead of reading USENET!
When they were planning the surgery, the doctor asked me if I wanted
"driving vison" or "reading vision". Since cheap reading glasses are
a buck or two, I couldn't imagine getting the reading vision built-in.

But you don't drive anyways. Maybe a close-vision replacement lens
might be what you want.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
nuny@bid.nes
2018-04-16 02:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I get a cataract taken out in August. My life is so *full* of
doctors.
I got my cataracts removed in 2011. The replacement lenses are set
for distance view - driving. So I LOST the ability to read stuff from
1.5 inches out.
That's what I'm afraid of. That's why I postponed the surgery
till August; I have several embroidery projects hanging fire that
I wans to get DONE before I can no longer do any close work.
Post by Greg Goss
Now, even with reading glasses, I have trouble with anything below 8
point.
Now, imagine trying to make stitches a millimeter long, side by
side so as to cover an area solidly.
Dammit, I should be working on the project-at-the-top-of-the-list
right now, instead of reading USENET!
When they were planning the surgery, the doctor asked me if I wanted
"driving vison" or "reading vision". Since cheap reading glasses are
a buck or two, I couldn't imagine getting the reading vision built-in.
But you don't drive anyways. Maybe a close-vision replacement lens
might be what you want.
I don't drive any more either and I am "famous" for not needing a magnifying glass to see individual pixels on a screen.

I dithered a bit but decided I'm going for the long-distance lenses because I've waited my whole life to see the night sky with my naked eyes.


Mark L. Fergerson

J. Clarke
2018-04-16 00:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Books disappearing has not actually been an issue for me--most of the
ones I read I don't find to be worth more than one reread if that
anyway--my house is _full_ of books that I have realized that I am
probably not going to read again. I'm more concerned about losing
books to leaky pipes and mice than to Amazon deciding to take them
away.

With regard to vision, in Kindle on an Android device lay two fingers
on the screen and spread them and the text gets bigger. Do the same
and squeeze them together and it gets smaller (for some reason this
does not work so well with Kindle on platforms other than Android,
including Amazon's own).

My desktop screen is 40 inches diagonally--text can get _real_ big
there (note--this is not horribly expensive anymore--I expect to see
good quality 40 inch 4K TVs drop below 300 bucks some time this year)
.
The tablets are 9 inch and 12.5 inch--about the size of a trade
paperback page and a piece of notebook paper respectively, and can be
used as a substitute for a notebook (_that_ synchs too). They aren't
any harder to bring close to my eye than a book is.

Funny thing is, I thought the phone would be too small but it's not.
At least not yet.

Oh, if you are having trouble seeing, the phone has another
trick--there's a free app (or something like 5 bucks if you want to
eliminate about a quarter inch of advertising at the edge) that turns
it into a really nice magnifying glass. That also works on android
tablets--I'm sure there are similar ones for Windows and IOS tablets.
Greg Goss
2018-04-16 01:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Funny thing is, I thought the phone would be too small but it's not.
At least not yet.
At one point I had a non-smart phone that had a lot of features. I
tried converting a book to TXT and reading it in the memo reader.

Even for someone as stubborn as I am, the 1.5 inch screen was a
killer.

I've been happily e-reading on five or six phones since then. My
first phone was a Symbian Nokia, and the eReader I was using had
trouble with accented names (and there are a LOT of those in the 1632
series). When I switched to Android, I initially used BlueFire and
then Moon Reader Pro. I've been happy with Moon Reader ever since. I
can't remember why I switched out of BlueFire.

I hate the Kindle or Kobo apps on either the phone or the laptop. I
don't read much on the laptop, but if I do, I use the reader bundled
with Calibre, adjusted for a cream background and a few other tweaks.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-16 01:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
and bigger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
I got my
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets. Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another. Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases. If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.
See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place. Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen. :)
Books disappearing has not actually been an issue for me--most of the
ones I read I don't find to be worth more than one reread if that
anyway--my house is _full_ of books that I have realized that I am
probably not going to read again. I'm more concerned about losing
books to leaky pipes and mice than to Amazon deciding to take them
away.
With regard to vision, in Kindle on an Android device lay two fingers
on the screen and spread them and the text gets bigger. Do the same
and squeeze them together and it gets smaller (for some reason this
does not work so well with Kindle on platforms other than Android,
including Amazon's own).
My desktop screen is 40 inches diagonally--text can get _real_ big
there (note--this is not horribly expensive anymore--I expect to see
good quality 40 inch 4K TVs drop below 300 bucks some time this year)
.
The tablets are 9 inch and 12.5 inch--about the size of a trade
paperback page and a piece of notebook paper respectively, and can be
used as a substitute for a notebook (_that_ synchs too). They aren't
any harder to bring close to my eye than a book is.
Funny thing is, I thought the phone would be too small but it's not.
At least not yet.
Oh, if you are having trouble seeing, the phone has another
trick--there's a free app (or something like 5 bucks if you want to
eliminate about a quarter inch of advertising at the edge) that turns
it into a really nice magnifying glass. That also works on android
tablets--I'm sure there are similar ones for Windows and IOS tablets.
Yes, apps appear to be cheap or free. But I don't have a
handheld to start with, and I'm damned if I'll spend how many
hundreds of dollars? on one. I just removed a third of my
savings account so we could pay the IRS. (Twice what we paid
them last year; our income hasn't changed.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 22:17:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
Is there no way of backing books off the Kindle onto a PC or
something and thence onto a CD or something?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Wolffan
2018-04-16 00:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and
bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
Is there no way of backing books off the Kindle onto a PC or
something and thence onto a CD or something?
Certainly. Amazon will drop Kindle books onto a desktop or laptop, but
they’ll have DRM, you can’t read them without Kindle software. You can
back them up to a CD, but they’re still useless without Kindle software. If
de-DRMed and dropped into calibre or similar, you can do anything you want
with them. I usually de-DRM them, convert them to EPUBs, and feed them to
Marvin.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-16 01:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with
bigger and
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier
and crappier
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and
magazines?
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back
once I got
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
Is there no way of backing books off the Kindle onto a PC or
something and thence onto a CD or something?
Certainly. Amazon will drop Kindle books onto a desktop or laptop, but
they’ll have DRM, you can’t read them without Kindle software. You can
back them up to a CD, but they’re still useless without Kindle software. If
de-DRMed and dropped into calibre or similar, you can do anything you want
with them. I usually de-DRM them, convert them to EPUBs, and feed them to
Marvin.
I would probably inquire how you de-DRM things, if I knew of
anything available only from Kindle that I wanted to read. I do
have Calibre, but while I can read things in it, all the other
things it can supposedly do (edit, e.g.) are a blank to me.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
J. Clarke
2018-04-16 01:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
than in paper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
print. Despite
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
Is there no way of backing books off the Kindle onto a PC or
something and thence onto a CD or something?
If you break the DRM then you can copy them anywhere. However if your
concern is losing the Kindle rather than Amazon deleting the books,
there's no need for that--they stay in your Amazon library and you can
download them again any time you want to.

If Amazon goes broke that's another story, but I don't see that
happening any time soon.
Greg Goss
2018-04-16 01:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Until your Kindle breaks. Then you can buy another Kindle and
get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
Is there no way of backing books off the Kindle onto a PC or
something and thence onto a CD or something?
There are two ways. You can save the locked file, which will ask
Amazon for permission when you load it into a new device.

Or you can "crack" the file. I think that the tools to do this are
called "apprentice alf" and load into Calibre. If Baen doesn't sell a
book I want, I buy from Kobo and crack it. I think it's fairly simple
for your husband to use these tools to crack a Kindle book into
something useful. After cracking, I store the books in ePub format.
I think that the Kobo books are ePub even before unlocking. It might
be best to store the unlocked Kindle books in some unlocked version of
their native format.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-04-15 21:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 15:04:21 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Yes. And just to be safe, I've backed mine up multiple places.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-15 22:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Heh. Since I don't *have* a Kindle -- and if I had, have no idea
how one would "synch" it -- I think I'm safe.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Wolffan
2018-04-16 00:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in
paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.
Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Heh. Since I don't *have* a Kindle -- and if I had, have no idea
how one would "synch" it
don’t let it connect to the internet. Same applies with Kindle software on
Android or Apple tablets, or on desktops or laptops.
-- I think I'm safe.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-04-16 01:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with
bigger and bigger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
televisions with more and more channels of crappier
and crappier
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now,
rather than in
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David DeLaney
paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.
Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.
...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
because I don't synch my Kindle.
Heh. Since I don't *have* a Kindle -- and if I had, have no idea
how one would "synch" it
don’t let it connect to the internet. Same applies with Kindle software on
Android or Apple tablets, or on desktops or laptops.
Hm. That would also mean you couldn't download anything from
Kindle (or other source) onto it in the first place, which makes
it even safer.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-04-15 21:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
Well,

a) I have all my books unlocked and backed up.

and

b) If that happened, I would just have to buy a hardcopy of whatever I wanted
to re-read. It's not like I wasn't doing that. I probably have half a
dozen copies of different books in boxes because it was too much trouble to
locate it over three moves and easier to just order a fresh $0.25 used copy.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Wolffan
2018-04-15 21:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
I de-DRM books and park them in calibre (desktop/laptop) or Marvin (iPad) or
both. Amazon, or Apple, or whoever, can _try_ to evaporate them.
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 21:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolffan
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
I de-DRM books and park them in calibre (desktop/laptop) or Marvin (iPad) or
both. Amazon, or Apple, or whoever, can _try_ to evaporate them.
I never really finished getting comfortable with Calibre. The
incentive for Calibre was as a server for my (now-ex-) wife's i-pod
reader. But an OS upgrade broke the reader, and I don't know if my
wife ever did get back into e-reading at all.

Other than the textbooks provided on a free iPad for her college
courses.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 21:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
I don't like the kindle or kobo readers on the phone. So if I buy
books (most often from Kobo, because I've figured out the crack) I
turn them into unlocked ePubs that nobody can take back from me.

Over the past decade, most of my book purchases have been from Baen,
because they make getting books into my phone easy.

(I never "cracked" the Palin biography. But I never got more than 2/3
of the way through it, either.)
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
J. Clarke
2018-04-15 19:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 08:47:09 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
Which shows a decline in reading in all forms, and that is just over 5
years. Do you have statistics that go back to, say, the '60s?
David Johnston
2018-04-15 19:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 08:47:09 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
*bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
books, newspapers, and magazines.
Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
Which shows a decline in reading in all forms,
No. It doesn't.
Greg Goss
2018-04-15 11:37:02 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them.
But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
Entire authors. I grew up in a "drought" era for SF, so my
read-everything reflex kept coming back to these.

Bradbury never resonated well with me. Norton seemed overrated.
Anything by Van Vogt was horrid.

Nothing by Zelazny really worked for me, except "Doorways in the Sand"
which my internal indexing scheme continues to insist was a Robinette.
(Maybe that's why I liked it?)
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-04-15 16:13:56 UTC
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Post by The Zygon
I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap.
Blood Music. I suppose it doesn't help that I am a biologist. (I didn't care for Jurassic Park either). Then there was Darwin's Radio, which IIRC, did not get a good reception here because of the science. The science I ignored. The main characters disappointed me by not dying.
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