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"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
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Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 17:27:23 UTC
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"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley

https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads

I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.

Lynn
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2018-08-20 19:34:15 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.

-DES
Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 19:43:43 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.

Lynn
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2018-08-20 20:04:12 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).

-DES
Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 20:17:27 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.

Lynn
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2018-08-20 20:52:40 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.

In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)

-DES
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-08-20 21:01:39 UTC
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In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the
setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little
dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to
be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague
and wavy.)
The first trilogy was stylistically fantasy, not SF. Which is about
as soft and fuzzy as it gets.

But girls riding telepathic dragons is definitely a fantasy trope,
not SF.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
David Johnston
2018-08-20 21:07:44 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-20 21:58:09 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books, particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee pest extermination. Thread, the true antagonist and the things which the dragons have been bred to exterminate, seems to be a non-sapient, living thing on about the level of a fungal spore. Indeed the ancestral text found in the abandoned part of the weyr called them "spores" IIRC. I don't think that cooperative extermination of dangerous spores is quote the trope that the term "melee combat" brings to mind.

Yes, psionics is probably not real. Neither is FTL. I am willing to accept both as SFnal. If one is not, the psi powers including but not limited to telepathy (used to communicate with various non-humans) arguably convert Niven's Known Space into a Fantasy setting.

Feudalism is a common trope for pre-industrial settings. That is more common for fantasy than for SF, but has been used many times in what is pretty clearly SF. _Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen_ by Piper comes to mind, as does Webber's Safehold series. A degree of feudalism seems to be present in Niven & Pournelle's _The Mote in God's Eye.

Dragons are a common fantasy trope, but bioengineered dragons seem more like SF to me. or does _Tuff Voyaging_ count as fantasy?

-DES
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-08-20 22:07:08 UTC
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"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written
version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships
(or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as
psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood
by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by
Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit
and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic
of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the horror in
_The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human beings, with no
supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its been many years since
I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt
at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the
biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to
treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What
elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border
between those is very vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books,
particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee
pest extermination. Thread, the true antagonist and the things which the
dragons have been bred to exterminate, seems to be a non-sapient, living
thing on about the level of a fungal spore. Indeed the ancestral text
found in the abandoned part of the weyr called them "spores" IIRC. I
don't think that cooperative extermination of dangerous spores is quote
the trope that the term "melee combat" brings to mind.
Yes, psionics is probably not real. Neither is FTL. I am willing to
accept both as SFnal. If one is not, the psi powers including but not
limited to telepathy (used to communicate with various non-humans)
arguably convert Niven's Known Space into a Fantasy setting.
Feudalism is a common trope for pre-industrial settings. That is more
common for fantasy than for SF, but has been used many times in what is
pretty clearly SF. _Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen_ by Piper comes to mind, as
does Webber's Safehold series. A degree of feudalism seems to be present
in Niven & Pournelle's _The Mote in God's Eye.
Dragons are a common fantasy trope, but bioengineered dragons seem more
like SF to me. or does _Tuff Voyaging_ count as fantasy?
-DES
Or a certain Hugo winner..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-08-20 22:30:43 UTC
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On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 5:07:47 PM UTC-4, David Johnston
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-b
ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of
those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not
read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science
Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are
spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is
fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A
Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories
definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The
Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that
the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of
human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting
things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious,
but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be,
rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very
vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by
Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern
books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-21 00:16:01 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-b
ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of
those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not
read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science
Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are
spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is
fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A
Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories
definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The
Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that
the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of
human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting
things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious,
but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be,
rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very
vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by
Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern
books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual combat, not melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each side). I will grant that this kind of kife fight, basically a formal duel, is more common in fantasy than SF (although RAH's _Beyond This Horizion_ comes to mind) but again that goes with the pre-industral tech level, IMO.

-DES
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-08-21 02:18:39 UTC
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On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
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On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 5:07:47 PM UTC-4, David
Post by David Johnston
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 4:17:30 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantas
y-b ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two
of those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have
not read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Science Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but
there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the
"special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being
repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the
characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by
Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau
Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern
stories definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's
"The Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is
that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the
actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or
forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and
i may be forgetting things.
Post by David Johnston
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least
an attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little
dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it
claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you
to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between
those is very vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced
by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the
Pern books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual combat,
not melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each side).
Now you're just playing games with definitions.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-21 02:49:28 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 5:07:47 PM UTC-4, David
Post by David Johnston
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 4:17:30 PM UTC-4, Lynn
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least
an attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little
dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it
claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you
to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between
those is very vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced
by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the
Pern books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual combat,
not melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each side).
Now you're just playing games with definitions.
--
Terry Austin
Various online definitions:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/melee
1. a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people.
2. confusion; turmoil; jumble:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/melee
a confused struggle; especially : a hand-to-hand fight among several people

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/melee
a situation that is confused and not under control, esp. a fight involving a number of people:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/melee
1. A confused struggle or fight at close quarters. See Synonyms at brawl.
2. A confused tumultuous mingling, as of a crowd: the rush-hour melee.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/melee
A melee is a noisy free-for-all or rowdy fight — a no holds barred, battle royal, if you will.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/melee
1. A confused fight or scuffle.
1.1 A confused crowd of people.
from French mêlée, from an Old French variant of meslee (see medley).

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/melee
A melee is a noisy, confusing fight between the people in a crowd

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/melee
1. a noisy confused fight involving a lot of people
2. a large confused group of people or things

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee
Melee (/ˈmeɪleɪ/ or /ˈmɛleɪ/, French: mêlée [mɛle]) or pell-mell battle generally refers to disorganized close combat in battles fought at abnormally close range with little central control once it starts

I don't think that I am "just playing games with definitions". Rather, I am using them accurately. I have always heard and used melee to refer to combat involving multiple antagonists, and given the above I do not think that a 1-on-1 knife fight can be described as a melee. If by "melee" was meant "hand-to-hand" combat, then that is hardly a distinguishing difference between science fiction and fantasy, and in any case is as likely in SF with a pre-industrial setting as in fantasy. Also, how many hand-to-hand combats did Captain Kirk engage in? Or Kimball Kinnison?

-DES
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-08-21 05:18:59 UTC
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However elaborate the rules, it's still a game.

I'm taking that to mean you have nothing further to say. And all
you ever had to say was "I will be rude to anyone who does not
accept my opinion as absolute, inviolable fact."
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 5:07:47 PM UTC-4, David
Post by David Johnston
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 4:17:30 PM UTC-4, Lynn
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at
least an attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little
dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it
claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to
you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border
between those is very vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements
of high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously
influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went
on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the
Pern books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of
one, granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual
combat, not melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each
side).
Now you're just playing games with definitions.
--
Terry Austin
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/melee
1. a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/melee
a confused struggle; especially : a hand-to-hand fight among
several people
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/melee
a situation that is confused and not under control, esp. a fight
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/melee
1. A confused struggle or fight at close quarters. See Synonyms
at brawl. 2. A confused tumultuous mingling, as of a crowd: the
rush-hour melee.
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/melee
A melee is a noisy free-for-all or rowdy fight — a no holds
barred, battle royal, if you will.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/melee
1. A confused fight or scuffle.
1.1 A confused crowd of people.
from French mêlée, from an Old French variant of meslee (see
medley).
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/melee
A melee is a noisy, confusing fight between the people in a
crowd
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/melee
1. a noisy confused fight involving a lot of people
2. a large confused group of people or things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee
Melee (/ˈmeɪleɪ/ or /ˈmɛleɪ/, French: mêlée [mɛle]) or
pell-mell battle generally refers to disorganized close combat
in battles fought at abnormally close range with little central
control once it starts
I don't think that I am "just playing games with definitions".
Rather, I am using them accurately. I have always heard and used
melee to refer to combat involving multiple antagonists, and
given the above I do not think that a 1-on-1 knife fight can be
described as a melee. If by "melee" was meant "hand-to-hand"
combat, then that is hardly a distinguishing difference between
science fiction and fantasy, and in any case is as likely in SF
with a pre-industrial setting as in fantasy. Also, how many
hand-to-hand combats did Captain Kirk engage in? Or Kimball
Kinnison?
-DES
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2018-08-21 02:20:33 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-b
ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of
those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not
read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science
Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are
spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is
fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A
Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories
definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The
Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that
the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of
human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting
things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious,
but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be,
rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very
vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by
Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern
books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual combat, not melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each side). I will grant that this kind of kife fight, basically a formal duel, is more common in fantasy than SF (although RAH's _Beyond This Horizion_ comes to mind) but again that goes with the pre-industral tech level, IMO.
Then there was Dune . . .
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-08-21 03:21:06 UTC
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On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-b
ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of
those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not
read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science
Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are
spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is
fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A
Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories
definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The
Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that
the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of
human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting
things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious,
but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be,
rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very
vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by
Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern
books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
--
Terry Austin
Yes there is, but that is single combat, almost ritual combat, not
melee combat (aka multiple fighters on each side). I will grant that
this kind of kife fight, basically a formal duel, is more common in
fantasy than SF (although RAH's _Beyond This Horizion_ comes to mind)
but again that goes with the pre-industral tech level, IMO.
Then there was Dune . . .
-DES
Dumerest was a knife fighter both in the arena and on his own time.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Woodward
2018-08-21 04:32:59 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-b
ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of
those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not
read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science
Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably
Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are
spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is
fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A
Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories
definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The
Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that
the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of
human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting
things.
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an
attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious,
but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be,
rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy
rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very
vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by
Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern
books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
IIRC, there is a knife fight in each of the first 3 books (F'lar vs 3
different antagonists).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-08-21 15:47:24 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:43:46 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-4, Lynn
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantas
y-b ooks-on-g
oodreads
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two
of those tha
t I
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have
not read in mo
vies.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_
or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
Science Fiction an
d
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the
most excelle
nt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the
written version.
And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but
there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the
"special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being
repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the
characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by
Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau
Eyes).
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern
stories definitely cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's
"The Pit and t
he Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is
that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the
actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or
forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and
i may be forgetting things.
Post by David Johnston
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least
an attempt at
an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting.
Granted the biology and physics are more than a little
dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it
claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you
to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between
those is very vague and wavy.)
Post by David Johnston
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of
high fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced
by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the
Pern books, particularly not in the early ones.
Isn't there a knife fight in the first book? Not much of one,
granted, but a knife fight nonetheless?
IIRC, there is a knife fight in each of the first 3 books (F'lar
vs 3 different antagonists).
I'll take your word for it. It's been many years since I've read
any Pern books.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
David Johnston
2018-08-21 14:32:37 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books, particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-08-21 15:28:08 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those
that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in
movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ?  BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most
excellent
movie _The Green Mile_.  Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call  _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written
version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there
are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy,
so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from
Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy.  The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a  thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit
and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the
horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human
beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its
been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt
at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted
the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm
willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than
fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF?
(Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy.  Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books,
particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee
pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
I don't see duels as "melee combat".
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Robert Carnegie
2018-08-21 21:29:26 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those
that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in
movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ?  BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most
excellent
movie _The Green Mile_.  Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call  _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written
version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there
are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy,
so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from
Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy.  The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a  thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit
and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the
horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human
beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its
been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt
at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted
the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm
willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than
fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF?
(Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy.  Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books,
particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee
pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
I don't see duels as "melee combat".
Besides the formality of a duel, it's a duet.
As quoted, apparently the French word "melee"
is related to "medley". A different thing.

I forget if there's a word for a troll starting
a fight and then stepping back to watch other
people hurt each other. Something like that
happens in _Othello_. On reflection, about
everything that happens in _Othello_ is like that.
Kevrob
2018-08-22 23:43:02 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those
that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in
movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ?  BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most
excellent
movie _The Green Mile_.  Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call  _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written
version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there
are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy,
so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from
Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy.  The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a  thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit
and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the
horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human
beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its
been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt
at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted
the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm
willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than
fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF?
(Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy.  Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books,
particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee
pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
I don't see duels as "melee combat".
Besides the formality of a duel, it's a duet.
As quoted, apparently the French word "melee"
is related to "medley". A different thing.
I forget if there's a word for a troll starting
a fight and then stepping back to watch other
people hurt each other. Something like that
happens in _Othello_. On reflection, about
everything that happens in _Othello_ is like that.
Perhaps that's "being Wimpied?"

"Let's you and him fight." - J Wellington Wimpy,
as reported by E C Segar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._C._Segar

Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-08-22 23:53:41 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those
that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in
movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either
_Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ?  BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most
excellent
movie _The Green Mile_.  Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call  _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written
version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or
arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there
are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities"
are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound,
albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy,
so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from
Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy.  The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a  thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit
and the Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a
classic of horror. So is King's "Apt Pupil". My memory is that the
horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the actions of human
beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked. But its
been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt
at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted
the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm
willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than
fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF?
(Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy.  Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch
World at
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by David Johnston
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books,
particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee
pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
I don't see duels as "melee combat".
Besides the formality of a duel, it's a duet.
As quoted, apparently the French word "melee"
is related to "medley". A different thing.
I forget if there's a word for a troll starting
a fight and then stepping back to watch other
people hurt each other. Something like that
happens in _Othello_. On reflection, about
everything that happens in _Othello_ is like that.
Perhaps that's "being Wimpied?"
"Let's you and him fight." - J Wellington Wimpy,
as reported by E C Segar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._C._Segar
I wouldn't know, I'm one of the Jones boys..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-21 16:15:35 UTC
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<snip>
Post by David Johnston
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Post by d***@gmail.com
In the Pern stories, my memory is that there was at least an attempt at an SFnal explanation for all the elements of the setting. Granted the biology and physics are more than a little dubious, but I'm willing to treat it as the soft SF it claims to be, rather than fantasy. What elements seem to you to be fantasy rather than SF? (Granted, the border between those is very vague and wavy.)
-DES
Dragons, feudalism and melee combat are typical elements of high
fantasy. Dragonflight was pretty obviously influenced by Witch World at
the start, although she found her own voice as she went on.
To the best of my memory there was no melee COMBAT in the Pern books, particularly not in the early ones. There was what I might call melee pest extermination.
They had knife duels.
I also don't think of 1-on-1 knife duels as "melee combat". But whatever term you use for them, I don't think of knife dues as particularly a marker for fantasy as opposed to science fiction. Just off the top of my head, i recall knife duels in the Paratime stories by H. Beam Piper, specifically "Last Enemy".

It is true that Pern uses some tropes more often associated with fantasy, but with at least a claimed SFnal explanation behind them -- a reason not always known to the characters -- it is in part a story about the rediscovery of lost knowledge, after all. To me that combo feels like SF not F. But there is no one true rule fro what is fantasy and what is science fiction. Mccaffery wanted to have her dragons and explain them too. That is to have the emotional appeal of "Dragons!" while at least *claiming* the respectability of "this is SF, no fantasy here, no sir." The science of Pern is largely nonsense, of course, but not much worse than most versions of FTL, in my view.

-DES

-DES
Moriarty
2018-08-20 22:47:53 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
Why not, given that SFF has two major categories: Science Fiction and
Fantasy ? BTW, I have read _DragonFlight_ and seen the most excellent
movie _The Green Mile_. Both are fantasy for me.
Lynn
I would call _The Green Mile_, horror, at least the written version. And I would definitely call Pern Science Fiction, or arguably Science fantasy. It is surely rather soft SF, but there are spaceships (or were in its backstory), the "special abilities" are presented as psionics and as being repeatably rule-bound, albiet not fully understood by the characters. If this is fantasy, so are the Telzy stories by Schmitz. Indeed, so is _A Gift from Earth_ by Niven (Plateau Eyes).
-DES
I would call horror a subset of fantasy. The Pern stories definitely
cross into both major areas.
Lynn
There is such a thing as non-supernatural horror. Poe's "The Pit and the
Pendulum" includes no fantasy elements at all, but is a classic of horror.
So is King's "Apt Pupil".
King's best book IMHO is "Misery". It's also one of his that contains zero supernatural elements.
Post by d***@gmail.com
My memory is that the horror in _The Green Mile_ came largely from the
actions of human beings, with no supernatural abilities or forces invoked.
But its been many years since I read it, and i may be forgetting things.
Well there was the ability to lay hands and miraculously heal that was front and centre of the plot. That, at least, was fantasy.

"A Wrinkle in Time", also on the list, similarly straddles the border between SF & F.

-Moriarty
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-08-20 23:15:56 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Well there was the ability to lay hands and miraculously heal
that was front and centre of the plot. That, at least, was
fantasy.
Not everyone agrees with that. (I do, but I know people who don't -
for good, if personal and entirely subjective, reasons.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
David Johnston
2018-08-20 20:26:26 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy. I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-20 20:41:20 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or _The Green mile_ fantasy.
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy. I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
According to the blog entry:
"These titles were chosen based on reader reviews, so every single book had to meet at least a four-star average rating from the Goodreads community." So the answer to "why is book X on the list?" is "because it got higher ratings from Goodreads readers than books not on the list." This is not some individual critic's view on what the 50 best fantasies are, who could in theory be asked to defend his or her choices.

Now one could ask why readers rated this or that book highly. But asking why things are popular is usually even less rewarding than asking why a particular person thought well of things.

-DES
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-08-20 21:28:31 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or
_The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy. I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
_Halfway_ was pretty clearly PNR for me. Enjoyable enough, but with Romance
plugging a lot holes that wouldn't be there in UF.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 21:45:28 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or
_The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy. I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
_Halfway_ was pretty clearly PNR for me. Enjoyable enough, but with Romance
plugging a lot holes that wouldn't be there in UF.
What is PNR ? Passenger-Name-Record does not seem to fit the usage.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 21:46:59 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in
movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or
_The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy.  I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
_Halfway_ was pretty clearly PNR for me.  Enjoyable enough, but with
Romance
plugging a lot holes that wouldn't be there in UF.
What is PNR ?  Passenger-Name-Record does not seem to fit the usage.
Lynn
PNR = Paranormal Romance. My google fu is working slowly today.

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-08-20 22:05:35 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 14 of these, and i would not call either _Dragonflight_ or
_The Green mile_ fantasy.
Post by d***@gmail.com
-DES
I have read more than half of them although I have no idea why Halfway
to the Grave is in the list, a quite unexceptional urban fantasy. I can
see why Good Omens is there, although I regarded it as a waste of my
time.
_Halfway_ was pretty clearly PNR for me. Enjoyable enough, but with Romance
plugging a lot holes that wouldn't be there in UF.
What is PNR ? Passenger-Name-Record does not seem to fit the usage.
Lynn
Ayup.

I didn't review that one, but I did sum up some of my problems with
later series entries

here
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2SSDD81GQNUEX

and here

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RV14EZ16MY1JF

Initially I thought I could keep following them if I could stay in the
PNR mindset, but the last one I read blew it for me.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Moriarty
2018-08-20 22:36:51 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
I've read exactly half. Neil Gaiman is the most represented author with four, or three and a half if you want to tally "Good Omens" as half an entry each for Gaiman and Sir Terry. Of his entries, the much lauded "American Gods" is probably the weakest.

Far away the worst book on the list is "Wizard's First Rule", which was complete and total dreck.

-Moriarty
Dimensional Traveler
2018-08-20 23:03:52 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
I've read exactly half. Neil Gaiman is the most represented author with four, or three and a half if you want to tally "Good Omens" as half an entry each for Gaiman and Sir Terry. Of his entries, the much lauded "American Gods" is probably the weakest.
Far away the worst book on the list is "Wizard's First Rule", which was complete and total dreck.
It was a towering achievement of literature compared to the later books
in the series.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Moriarty
2018-08-20 23:12:30 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Far away the worst book on the list is "Wizard's First Rule", which was complete and total dreck.
It was a towering achievement of literature compared to the later books
in the series.
So I've heard. You're not the first person to point that out and make me glad I never continued.

-Moriarty
Default User
2018-08-20 22:42:21 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Not surprisingly, I didn't do well. Exactly one, Mort.

I didn't really understand the selection process. Did that mean that
the Death sub-series of Discworld books did the best in reader reviews,
and that was the first of that?


Brian
Scott Lurndal
2018-08-21 13:02:43 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Not surprisingly, I didn't do well. Exactly one, Mort.
I had read 13 of them. Surprised that nothing from Michelle West
was there...
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-08-29 02:01:54 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Not surprisingly, I didn't do well. Exactly one, Mort.
I had read 13 of them. Surprised that nothing from Michelle West
was there...
Huh. I've only read fourteen.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Carl Fink
2018-08-29 02:30:44 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Not surprisingly, I didn't do well. Exactly one, Mort.
I had read 13 of them. Surprised that nothing from Michelle West
was there...
Huh. I've only read fourteen.
Really? I've read 23.

I didn't like them all, and I don't remember them all, but I've read them.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-08-29 19:13:04 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Not surprisingly, I didn't do well. Exactly one, Mort.
I had read 13 of them. Surprised that nothing from Michelle West
was there...
Huh. I've only read fourteen.
Really? I've read 23.
Yeah, I was a bit surprised myself. Many of them are too recent for
me.
Post by Carl Fink
I didn't like them all, and I don't remember them all, but I've read them.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-20 22:59:55 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.

The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
--
Michael F. Stemper
2 Chronicles 19:7
Lynn McGuire
2018-08-20 23:07:39 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.
The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
There are several book series in that list.

However, the list is missing the Harry Potter books, the most sold
fantasy series of all time.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-08-21 00:20:13 UTC
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 18:07:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.
The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
There are several book series in that list.
However, the list is missing the Harry Potter books, the most sold
fantasy series of all time.
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
David Goldfarb
2018-08-21 02:55:13 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
--
David Goldfarb |"Any questions?"
***@gmail.com | "Yeah. Who, what, where, and when; whither,
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | whether, whence, and wherefore; and a big
| side order of *why*." -- Hitchhiker's Guide
J. Clarke
2018-08-21 23:38:03 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent with any
sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
David Goldfarb
2018-08-24 01:29:12 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent with any
sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
--
David Goldfarb |"To the general public "calories" are not units
***@gmail.com |of measurement but evil creatures that live in
***@ocf.berkeley.edu |tasty food and make people fat."
| -- Bill Jennings on rec.arts.comics.misc
David Johnston
2018-08-24 01:51:10 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent with any
sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never fantasy. Here's
the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own right. It's not just a waste
bin for science fiction in which the science is bad.
Robert Carnegie
2018-08-24 19:52:29 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent with any
sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never fantasy. Here's
the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own right. It's not just a waste
bin for science fiction in which the science is bad.
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical :-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking... and, come to that, the
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)

Marvel Comics has space whales, Ego The Living Planet,
and his daughter whose name escapes me; DC has Mogo;
and Star Wars has that asteroid that the Millennium Falcon
crew regretted landing in, as it turned out, the mouth of.
Marvel also has Gaia, goddess of planet Earth it/herself,
and DC has the Worldsoul. The Marvel Universe itself
has friends who call him Eternity.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-08-24 20:16:00 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While
there is something resembling psi, it takes place in a
very far future world where there had at one time been
much technological development, followed by a dark age,
and it is clear that the people with the extraordinary
powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in
contemporary humans or any other species of which I am
aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to
me by the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several
major elements that really aren't compatible with its
taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical
Except when they are.
Post by Robert Carnegie
:-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking... and, come to that, the
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)
Or read the intro to any of the first dozen+ books.

(But there are fantasy books that aren't discworld, you know. And a
very great many of them are entirely consistent with spherical
worlds.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-29 19:29:10 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
Well said. In fact, I may quote you on that.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical
Except when they are.
Post by Robert Carnegie
:-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking
I believe that Gene Wolfe wrote one of those. "The Death of the Island
Doctor", or maybe "The Death of Doctor Island".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)
Or read the intro to any of the first dozen+ books.
(But there are fantasy books that aren't discworld, you know. And a
very great many of them are entirely consistent with spherical
worlds.)
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?) taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Exodus 22:21
Dimensional Traveler
2018-08-29 19:45:24 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
Well said. In fact, I may quote you on that.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical
Except when they are.
Post by Robert Carnegie
:-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking
I believe that Gene Wolfe wrote one of those. "The Death of the Island
Doctor", or maybe "The Death of Doctor Island".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)
Or read the intro to any of the first dozen+ books.
(But there are fantasy books that aren't discworld, you know. And a
very great many of them are entirely consistent with spherical
worlds.)
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?) taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
IIRC that was after the Fourth Age which followed the end of LoTR.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-08-29 20:48:12 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
Well said. In fact, I may quote you on that.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical
Except when they are.
Post by Robert Carnegie
:-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking
I believe that Gene Wolfe wrote one of those. "The Death of the Island
Doctor", or maybe "The Death of Doctor Island".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)
Or read the intro to any of the first dozen+ books.
(But there are fantasy books that aren't discworld, you know. And a
very great many of them are entirely consistent with spherical
worlds.)
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?) taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
IIRC that was after the Fourth Age which followed the end of LoTR.
No, no.

/e grabs the Tale of Years to make sure

No, that was toward the end of the Second Age, S. A. 3319 to be
exact. "Ar-Pharazon assails Valinor. Downfall of Numenor.
Elendil and his sons escape."

Hence Gandalf's rhyme of lore:

Tall ships and tall kings
Three times three,
What brought they from the foundered land
Over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones
And one white tree.

And the end of the Akallabeth:

And those that sailed far came only to the new lands, and
found them like to the old lands, and subject to death. And those
that sailed furthest set but a girdle about the Earth and returned
weary at last to the place of their beginninG; and they said, "All
roads are now bent."
Thus in after days, what by the voyages of ships, what by
lore and star-craft, the kings of Men knew that the world was
indeed made round, and yet the Eldar were permitted still to
depart and to come to the Ancient West and to Avallone, if they
would. Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight
Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it.
And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road
and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a
mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and
of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed
Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol
Eressea, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor,
where the Valar still dwell and watch the unfolding of the story
of the world. And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the
sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by
some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the
Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink before them, and
so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily to the
last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the
White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2018-08-29 22:18:42 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
Well said. In fact, I may quote you on that.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Fantasy worlds aren't spherical
Except when they are.
Post by Robert Carnegie
:-) Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking
I believe that Gene Wolfe wrote one of those. "The Death of the Island
Doctor", or maybe "The Death of Doctor Island".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
Great Turtle which carries the Discworld (and four really
large elephants) on its back, thinks. Just very slowly.
It also reproduces. (See "Big Bang Theory".)
Or read the intro to any of the first dozen+ books.
(But there are fantasy books that aren't discworld, you know. And a
very great many of them are entirely consistent with spherical
worlds.)
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?) taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
IIRC that was after the Fourth Age which followed the end of LoTR.
No, no.
/e grabs the Tale of Years to make sure
No, that was toward the end of the Second Age, S. A. 3319 to be
exact. "Ar-Pharazon assails Valinor. Downfall of Numenor.
Elendil and his sons escape."
Tall ships and tall kings
Three times three,
What brought they from the foundered land
Over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones
And one white tree.
And those that sailed far came only to the new lands, and
found them like to the old lands, and subject to death. And those
that sailed furthest set but a girdle about the Earth and returned
weary at last to the place of their beginninG; and they said, "All
roads are now bent."
Thus in after days, what by the voyages of ships, what by
lore and star-craft, the kings of Men knew that the world was
indeed made round, and yet the Eldar were permitted still to
depart and to come to the Ancient West and to Avallone, if they
would. Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight
Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it.
And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road
and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a
mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and
of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed
Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol
Eressea, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor,
where the Valar still dwell and watch the unfolding of the story
of the world. And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the
sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by
some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the
Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink before them, and
so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily to the
last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the
White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.
Okay, so I don't recall correctly.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Scott Lurndal
2018-08-29 20:14:02 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
While it's in the background, the planet appears to be sentient in
Michelle West's essalieyan series (in that 'earth' can speak with
some of the characters).
David Johnston
2018-08-30 00:38:54 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent
with any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
While it's in the background, the planet appears to be sentient in
Michelle West's essalieyan series (in that 'earth' can speak with
some of the characters).
I believe you, but I've never seen that series.
Scott Lurndal
2018-08-30 13:07:47 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Goldfarb
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
That's something I've seen in science fiction but never
For instance, David Brin's _Earth_.
Post by David Johnston
fantasy. Here's the thing. "Fantasy" is a genre in its own
right. It's not just a waste bin for science fiction in which
the science is bad.
While it's in the background, the planet appears to be sentient in
Michelle West's essalieyan series (in that 'earth' can speak with
some of the characters).
I believe you, but I've never seen that series.
In reference to Lynn's Comfort reads thread, The Essalieyan series is at
the top of my list.

(a two-book starter, and two six-book subseries (Sun Sword and House War) so far).

Next volume comes out in January (Firstborn), which is the penultimate
entry in the House War series (the final volume (War) is out next summer).

A follow-on series is in the works.

https://www.goodreads.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=house+war&search_type=books
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-08-29 20:27:23 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.

You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Gene Wirchenko
2018-08-30 23:02:19 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-31 19:54:50 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
The name of the story is "A Sound of Thunder".
It was written by Ray Bradbury. You're welcome.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-31 21:10:42 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
I believe that is from Akallabêth, or from the short summary of the story of the downfall of Numenor in Appendix A of LotR. In fact I think it is one of the lines that is common to the two versions. I don't have my tests in front of me, and so cant quote a page number.

-DES
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-31 21:14:24 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
I believe that is from Akallabêth, or from the short summary of the story of the downfall of Numenor in Appendix A of LotR. In fact I think it is one of the lines that is common to the two versions. I don't have my tests in front of me, and so cant quote a page number.
Close enough. I can find it from that.

Thanks.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Isaiah 10:1-2
Robert Carnegie
2018-08-31 21:36:46 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
I believe that is from Akallabêth, or from the short summary of the story of the downfall of Numenor in Appendix A of LotR. In fact I think it is one of the lines that is common to the two versions. I don't have my tests in front of me, and so cant quote a page number.
-DES
Good god, was there a test at the end? :-)
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-08-31 23:13:23 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
I believe that is from Akallabêth, or from the short summary of the
story of the downfall of Numenor in Appendix A of LotR. In fact I think
it is one of the lines that is common to the two versions. I don't
have my tests in front of me, and so cant quote a page number.
-DES
Good god, was there a test at the end? :-)
That wouldn't be fair: there are Idunnamany editions of _The
Silmarillion,_ most or all of them with different pagination. To
tell you "It's in the AKallabeth" is the best we can do.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-08-31 23:12:08 UTC
Reply
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
It's not in the LotR Appendices, it's in the _Silmarillion,_ in
the section titled "The Akallabeth."

Brief summary: the island of Numenor, in the middle of Belegaer,
the Great Sea (aka the Atlantic), was corrupted by Sauron and
consumed with envy of the Elves who lived in the Undying Lands on
the western shore. And he got the idea into his head that any
mortal who set foot on the Undying Lands would become immortal.
So he raised a great fleet and sailed westward.

Here's the passage.

Then Manwe upon the Mountain called upon Iluvatar [that's Eru],
and for that time the Valar laid down their government of Arda.
But Iluvatar showed forth his power, and he changed the fashion
of the world; and he changed the fashion of the world; and a great
chasm opened in the sea between Numenor and the Deathless Lands.

Much description of how the King's fleet were drowned, and the
King and his men that had landed were buried under falling hills
till the end of the world, and the island of Numenor itself sank
into the sea.

The only survivors from Numenor wereElendil son of Amandil, and
his sons Isildur and Anarion, who escaped with their folk in nine
ships and landed in Middle-earth.

The only mention of the fall of Numenor in _LotR_ is a line in
the Tale of Years; and no wonder, because this all happened some
four millennia before the War of the Ring.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Gene Wirchenko
2018-08-31 23:37:30 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:54:50 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Gene Wirchenko
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
LOTR says that they laid down their guardianship and called on
the One. That is close to a quote.
Whereabouts? I've read the whole thing (including Appendices) many
times, but this doesn't ring a bell. (I'm not doubting you, I'm asking
so that I can read it in context.)
I was hoping to avoid having to look it up, but Appendix A - I
The Numenorean Kings (i) Numenor, sixth page: "But when Ar-Pharazon
set foot upon the shores of Aman the Blessed, the Valar laid down
their Guardianship and called upon the One, and the world was
changed."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
David DeLaney
2018-08-31 12:45:50 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
So, wait, we're crossing over with the "mysterious alien megastructures" thread
now?

Dave, cool!
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-31 18:20:40 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
I've tried to read _The Silmarillion_ a couple of times: when it
first came out, 1994, and 2013. Only the second of those was
successful, and I didn't extract anything out of any of the attempts.

Rather disappointing, really.

Somebody recently posted a link to a primer for it. I might try again,
with that as my "Cliff's Notes".
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-31 21:47:14 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
I've tried to read _The Silmarillion_ a couple of times: when it
first came out, 1994, and 2013. Only the second of those was
successful, and I didn't extract anything out of any of the attempts.
Rather disappointing, really.
Somebody recently posted a link to a primer for it. I might try again,
with that as my "Cliff's Notes".
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
I am finding the primer ( at https://www.tor.com/series/the-silmarillion-primer/) excellently written, and a good intro for those who liked LotR but have never read the Silmarillion. And the comments at the end of each section are quite interesting in themselves. The author gets a bit snarky at times, but in a good way, in my view.

-DES
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2018-09-03 15:42:31 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
I've tried to read _The Silmarillion_ a couple of times: when it
first came out, 1994, and 2013. Only the second of those was
successful, and I didn't extract anything out of any of the attempts.
Rather disappointing, really.
I thought it was totally awesome. I've read it all several times. It's
like reading "Daulaire's Guide to Middle-Earth Myths".
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-03 15:59:06 UTC
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Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
As I understand it (which is poorly), part of the back-story of _The
Lord of the Rings_ involves Eru(?)
With the assistance of the Ainur, some of whom chose to descend
to the world as the Valar and manage its atmosphere and seas and
so on.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
taking a planar world and wrapping
part of it into a ball, to make various places inaccessible.
Actually, the world was envisioned in the shape of a ship, with
the Undying Lands as the forecastle, Middle-earth as the aftercastle,
and the Great Sea as the deck in between. The forecastle was
Strictly Off-Limits to mortals, and when one of them tried to
land there anyway, the Valar (under Eru's command) bent the world
into a sphere, leaving Middle-earth as Eurasia/Africa and filling
in the ocean with the Americas. Only the Elven-ships could take
the Straight Road that led out of the atmosphere and reach the
Undying Lands, which I assume had an atmosphere of their own.
You could read all about it in the section of _The Silmarillion_
called "The Akallabeth," assuming you wanted to.
I've tried to read _The Silmarillion_ a couple of times: when it
first came out, 1994, and 2013. Only the second of those was
successful, and I didn't extract anything out of any of the attempts.
Rather disappointing, really.
I thought it was totally awesome. I've read it all several times. It's
like reading "Daulaire's Guide to Middle-Earth Myths".
It's the Bible for Elves, beginning with the creation story, then
the deeds of [near-]gods, then the deeds of heroes, till one gets
into periods of time that are datable by historical documents
and/or archaeological evidence.

But then, in the Tolkienverse you can occasionally talk to
someone who has spoken to someone who was *there*.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-08-29 20:17:41 UTC
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....Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking...
There are living, sentient islands in one of White's Sector
General novels. Wait a minute and I'll find the title (I have
all of them).

....
It's _Major Operation_, fourth in the series. Not only is it
island sentient, it's telekinetic and uses psychically controlled
metal blades to trim its fronds with, attack what it thinks are
enemies, etc. There's another sentient species on the same
planet, living in the sea; like sharks, they must continually
swim (well, roll) to keep from asphyxiating. In spite of which,
the Galactics discover their first astronaut as he makes his
maiden flight.

White shared the prejudices of his time (women can't be
Diagnosticians, because they couldn't bear having the mind-record
of somebody else loaded into their pretty little minds), but he
was great at inventing Really Weird Aliens.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2018-08-30 01:24:41 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
....Would you accept
a living island? I'm not absolutely well stocked with
those, strictly speaking...
There are living, sentient islands in one of White's Sector
General novels. Wait a minute and I'll find the title (I have
all of them).
....
It's _Major Operation_, fourth in the series. Not only is it
island sentient, it's telekinetic and uses psychically controlled
metal blades to trim its fronds with, attack what it thinks are
enemies, etc. There's another sentient species on the same
planet, living in the sea; like sharks, they must continually
swim (well, roll) to keep from asphyxiating. In spite of which,
the Galactics discover their first astronaut as he makes his
maiden flight.
White shared the prejudices of his time (women can't be
Diagnosticians, because they couldn't bear having the mind-record
of somebody else loaded into their pretty little minds), but he
was great at inventing Really Weird Aliens.
I'm not sure about the dating, but Wikipedia has the first
stories from 1957, and _Star Surgeon_, which explicitly
mentions that Educator Tape recordings aren't compatible
with a (human) female mind, is 1963. (The Tape contains
an alien doctor's whole memory, not just medical knowledge,
is obligatory for senior staff, and one nearly kills
Doctor Peter Conway as, I think, an early adopter.)
Britain was legislating away sex discrimination in the
1970s; before then, it was routine when hiring to specify
that a post, or all posts in a department, were for
men, or for women. So I think that White set up a
space hospital with the same kind of sex division as
the ones where Wikipedia says his wife worked and where
he was treated from time to time, and then had to make
excuses for that. Latterly it's made that the medical
staff at Sector General are all high-performing own-species
doctors and liable to start again in nursing anyway,
some species regularly change sex or mate rarely or
unconsciously, and the sex/Tape issue may be solved in
the end after all. Whether this makes up for Conway
being escorted in 1963 by robot chaperone from the nurse
quarters, I daren't claim. (I made that sound worse
than it was - in a way: a programmed time limit for
goodnight kissing was exceeded, but I don't know if we
were told who programmed it; maybe Conway was up against
the Three Rules of Dua Lipa [2017].)
J. Clarke
2018-08-24 02:13:08 UTC
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Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by J. Clarke
And I'm not sure the Jemisin is exactly fantasy. While there is
something resembling psi, it takes place in a very far future world
where there had at one time been much technological development,
followed by a dark age, and it is clear that the people with the
extraordinary powers are the result of some sort of engineering--they
have an oft-mentioned organ that does not exist in contemporary humans
or any other species of which I am aware.
Have you read the whole trilogy? It seems pretty clear to me by
the end that it counts as fantasy; there are several major elements
that really aren't compatible with its taking place in our universe.
All the way through. And the major elements are consistent with any
sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
What, even the sentient, sapient planet?
Who knows how it _got_ that way?
Chris Buckley
2018-08-21 01:58:10 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.
The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
That was a design decision that they talked about - they would list
only the first book of the series. Several first books were listed
like that, though it appears that _Mort_ was not considered to be in
that sort of a series. A reasonable design decision, otherwise you get
into all kinds of discussions.

I've read 30 (well, read 29, and seen 1). I'm missing most of the
urban fantasy sub-genre. A reasonable list. As others have noted,
Goodkind really shouldn't be there, and Erikson should be there. I
have other favorites not there, like McKillip, that I view as personal
preference, but given the other selections, I really don't understand
Erikson's non-appearance.

Chris
Moriarty
2018-08-21 03:07:31 UTC
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Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.
The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
That was a design decision that they talked about - they would list
only the first book of the series. Several first books were listed
like that, though it appears that _Mort_ was not considered to be in
that sort of a series. A reasonable design decision, otherwise you get
into all kinds of discussions.
I've read 30 (well, read 29, and seen 1). I'm missing most of the
urban fantasy sub-genre. A reasonable list. As others have noted,
Goodkind really shouldn't be there, and Erikson should be there. I
have other favorites not there, like McKillip, that I view as personal
preference, but given the other selections, I really don't understand
Erikson's non-appearance.
They made it clear that only books with 4 or more stars got the nod. "Gardens of the Moon" only has a goodreads rating of 3.87.

I love the entire Malazan series, but a lot of people bounce off it. Hard. So I guess it's being dragged down by one or two star reviews by people who didn't like it.

McKillip's Riddle Master series is something I'd definitely have in my top 10, let alone my top 50.

-Moriarty
Michael F. Stemper
2018-08-21 15:39:44 UTC
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Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
One of the books on their list is the first third of a novel, _The
Fellowship of the Ring_.
The fact that this is possible shows that their methodology is stupid.
That was a design decision that they talked about - they would list
only the first book of the series. Several first books were listed
like that, though it appears that _Mort_ was not considered to be in
that sort of a series. A reasonable design decision, otherwise you get
into all kinds of discussions.
_The Lord of the Rings_ is not a series, it's a novel. _The Fellowship
the Ring_ is not the first novel in a series, it's the first volume of
a novel.
--
Michael F. Stemper
2 Chronicles 19:7
David Goldfarb
2018-08-21 02:53:24 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
29/50 here. Some of those 29 are very good. (I do find myself wondering
why _The Hobbit_ gets split off from _The Fellowship of the Ring_.)
--
David Goldfarb |"Federico Fellini brought his own security to
***@gmail.com | tonight's show...and they were six of the
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | toughest clown midgets I've ever seen."
| -- Billy Crystal
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-08-21 17:29:15 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50.  I have seen two of those that I
read in movies.  I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
Lynn
I have read 17 of the 50:

A Game of Thrones
A Wrinkle in Time
American Gods
Dragonflight
Good Omens
Moon Called
Mort
Storm Front
The Blade Itself
The Fellowship of the Ring
The Hobbit
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
The Mists of Avalon
The Princess Bride
The Way of Kings
Watership Down
Wizard's First Rule

Some of them (Dragonflight, Good Omens, The Lion, the Witch, and the
Wardrobe, Wizard's First Rule) I've read twice or more. Some of them
(The Blade Itself, The Way of Kings) I had trouble finishing and would
definitely not have included in a list of 'Best Of'. Some I've never
even heard of. (Darkfever, Monstress).
David DeLaney
2018-08-31 12:37:02 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
"Top 50 Fantasy Books on Goodreads" by Hayley
https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/1344-top-50-fantasy-books-on-goodreads
I have read eight of the list of 50. I have seen two of those that I
read in movies. I have seen two others that I have not read in movies.
33 for me, plus I noticed very few that I'd never heard of at all, so good
show, Goodreads!

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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