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[Young People Listen to Old SFF] X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
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James Nicoll
2018-06-02 13:29:04 UTC
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X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl

http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
D B Davis
2018-06-03 15:09:07 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
Melissa's woke! Facebook, and other social media, were designed to
gather intelligence. Social media may also prove useful for shaping
men's attitudes.
_The Tunnel Under the World_(1955) is an early sfnal story about
consumer behavior virtualization. _Simulacron-3_ (Galouye, 1964) follows
in its footsteps. _Time Out of Joint_ (PKD, 1959) apparently falls in
between. (The PKD remains unread by me thus far.)



Thank you,
--
Don
Kevrob
2018-06-03 15:59:43 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
Melissa's woke! Facebook, and other social media, were designed to
gather intelligence. Social media may also prove useful for shaping
men's attitudes.
_The Tunnel Under the World_(1955) is an early sfnal story about
consumer behavior virtualization. _Simulacron-3_ (Galouye, 1964) follows
in its footsteps. _Time Out of Joint_ (PKD, 1959) apparently falls in
between. (The PKD remains unread by me thus far.)
"...considering technological advance without the societal consequences
that would come along with it." - Mikayla

Fancy thinking that of a Pohl, or a Pohl/Kornblut tale!

Maybe Dan has the best take: the hacks who adapted it? :)

Kevin R
D B Davis
2018-06-03 16:56:30 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
Melissa's woke! Facebook, and other social media, were designed to
gather intelligence. Social media may also prove useful for shaping
men's attitudes.
_The Tunnel Under the World_(1955) is an early sfnal story about
consumer behavior virtualization. _Simulacron-3_ (Galouye, 1964) follows
in its footsteps. _Time Out of Joint_ (PKD, 1959) apparently falls in
between. (The PKD remains unread by me thus far.)
"...considering technological advance without the societal consequences
that would come along with it." - Mikayla
Fancy thinking that of a Pohl, or a Pohl/Kornblut tale!
Maybe Dan has the best take: the hacks who adapted it? :)
It's OK with me when an adaptation, a treatment, an interpretation takes
liberties with the original story. Pushing-the-envelope adds to the art,
from my perspective. Dan obviously feels differently. And that's his
prerogative.
_The Lathe of Heaven_ (Le Guin) has two treatments. The 1980
treatment follows the original story fairly closely. IIRC Le Guin
participated in that first production. The 2002 treatment takes more
liberties with the original story line. Both treatments work for me in
different ways. YMMV.



Thank you,
--
Don
Kevrob
2018-06-03 19:32:28 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
Post by Kevrob
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
Melissa's woke! Facebook, and other social media, were designed to
gather intelligence. Social media may also prove useful for shaping
men's attitudes.
_The Tunnel Under the World_(1955) is an early sfnal story about
consumer behavior virtualization. _Simulacron-3_ (Galouye, 1964) follows
in its footsteps. _Time Out of Joint_ (PKD, 1959) apparently falls in
between. (The PKD remains unread by me thus far.)
"...considering technological advance without the societal consequences
that would come along with it." - Mikayla
Fancy thinking that of a Pohl, or a Pohl/Kornblut tale!
Maybe Dan has the best take: the hacks who adapted it? :)
I left a "blame' out of "blame the hacks who adapted it? :)"
Post by D B Davis
It's OK with me when an adaptation, a treatment, an interpretation takes
liberties with the original story. Pushing-the-envelope adds to the art,
from my perspective. Dan obviously feels differently. And that's his
prerogative.
_The Lathe of Heaven_ (Le Guin) has two treatments. The 1980
treatment follows the original story fairly closely. IIRC Le Guin
participated in that first production. The 2002 treatment takes more
liberties with the original story line. Both treatments work for me in
different ways. YMMV.
You are right much of the time, except that some adaptations
are so opposite to the intended meaning of the prose work's
authors that they amount to creative vandalism. The film
STARSHIP TROOPERS, anyone? Given how socially conservative
most commercially-sponsored US radio drama would have been
in that era, I would expect some of the more challenging
aspects of any story in the "social science - SF" sub-genre
that Pohl/Kornbluth were masters of would be toned down
for air.

Of course, many authors sell their stories to other media
for adaptation and are resigned to the fact that awful, if
not contrary versions will be made. "Did the check clear?"
is often the most important question about how the producers
treat their "children." Such resignation may be a virtue made
out of a necessity.

Kevin R
Jerry Brown
2018-06-03 19:49:04 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by D B Davis
Post by Kevrob
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
X Minus One, Episode 66: The Tunnel Under The World by Frederik Pohl
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/tunnel-under-the-world
Melissa's woke! Facebook, and other social media, were designed to
gather intelligence. Social media may also prove useful for shaping
men's attitudes.
_The Tunnel Under the World_(1955) is an early sfnal story about
consumer behavior virtualization. _Simulacron-3_ (Galouye, 1964) follows
in its footsteps. _Time Out of Joint_ (PKD, 1959) apparently falls in
between. (The PKD remains unread by me thus far.)
"...considering technological advance without the societal consequences
that would come along with it." - Mikayla
Fancy thinking that of a Pohl, or a Pohl/Kornblut tale!
Maybe Dan has the best take: the hacks who adapted it? :)
I left a "blame' out of "blame the hacks who adapted it? :)"
Post by D B Davis
It's OK with me when an adaptation, a treatment, an interpretation takes
liberties with the original story. Pushing-the-envelope adds to the art,
from my perspective. Dan obviously feels differently. And that's his
prerogative.
_The Lathe of Heaven_ (Le Guin) has two treatments. The 1980
treatment follows the original story fairly closely. IIRC Le Guin
participated in that first production. The 2002 treatment takes more
liberties with the original story line. Both treatments work for me in
different ways. YMMV.
You are right much of the time, except that some adaptations
are so opposite to the intended meaning of the prose work's
authors that they amount to creative vandalism. The film
STARSHIP TROOPERS, anyone? Given how socially conservative
most commercially-sponsored US radio drama would have been
in that era, I would expect some of the more challenging
aspects of any story in the "social science - SF" sub-genre
that Pohl/Kornbluth were masters of would be toned down
for air.
I have a strong suspicion that if The Space Merchants was adapted for
TV today it would be dismissed as a "sci-fi" take on Mad Men (despite
being published 13 years before that show's creator was born).
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
James Nicoll
2018-06-03 20:35:57 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
I have a strong suspicion that if The Space Merchants was adapted for
TV today it would be dismissed as a "sci-fi" take on Mad Men (despite
being published 13 years before that show's creator was born).
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
w***@gmail.com
2018-06-03 21:25:46 UTC
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On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 4:35:59 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
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Post by James Nicoll
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
--
Vance's _The Hidden Persuaders_ was published in 1957. I think it's safe to say that awareness of, and concern about, mass media advertising was part of the 50s zeitgeist.

wes
Quadibloc
2018-06-04 18:19:19 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
Vance's _The Hidden Persuaders_ was published in 1957. I think it's safe to say
that awareness of, and concern about, mass media advertising was part of the 50s
zeitgeist.
And don't forget MAD Magazine.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2018-06-04 22:03:51 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
TEXT CUT
Post by James Nicoll
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
--
Vance's _The Hidden Persuaders_ was published in 1957. I think it's safe to say that awareness of, and concern about, mass media advertising was part of the 50s zeitgeist.
wes
Shepherd Mead's _The Big Ball of Wax_ (1954) is something
I'm currently attempting to read. The hero is describing
events of 1992 to a much later audience of business
executives, and so far, products and advertising slogans
make it pretty hard going. The 1992 American culture, or
his particular role in it, oblige him, like Homer or
James Bond, to describe every household fixture with
its epithet (my word of this year, I warn you belatedly)
of brand name and, in this case, enticing description -
or not. For instance, the intentionally lukewarm product of
his coffee machine is folksily "Jes' drinkin' hot!" Bah.
Titus G
2018-06-05 00:30:17 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by w***@gmail.com
TEXT CUT
Post by James Nicoll
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
--
Vance's _The Hidden Persuaders_ was published in 1957. I think it's safe to say that awareness of, and concern about, mass media advertising was part of the 50s zeitgeist.
wes
Shepherd Mead's _The Big Ball of Wax_ (1954) is something
I'm currently attempting to read. The hero is describing
events of 1992 to a much later audience of business
executives, and so far, products and advertising slogans
make it pretty hard going. The 1992 American culture, or
his particular role in it, oblige him, like Homer or
James Bond, to describe every household fixture with
its epithet (my word of this year, I warn you belatedly)
of brand name and, in this case, enticing description -
or not. For instance, the intentionally lukewarm product of
his coffee machine is folksily "Jes' drinkin' hot!" Bah.
American Psycho showed one reaction to a lifestyle "fashioned" by Lord
Television.

Dorothy J Heydt
2018-06-03 21:17:26 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Jerry Brown
I have a strong suspicion that if The Space Merchants was adapted for
TV today it would be dismissed as a "sci-fi" take on Mad Men (despite
being published 13 years before that show's creator was born).
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
Well, it was the fifties, was it not?

Cf. Pohl and Kornbluth, _Gravy Planet._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Jerry Brown
2018-06-04 18:17:07 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Jerry Brown
I have a strong suspicion that if The Space Merchants was adapted for
TV today it would be dismissed as a "sci-fi" take on Mad Men (despite
being published 13 years before that show's creator was born).
When I did my listen to 1950s radio shows, I was surprised how many
advertising themed sf stories there were.
Well, it was the fifties, was it not?
Cf. Pohl and Kornbluth, _Gravy Planet._
IIRC The Space Merchants is a later retitling of Gravy Planet
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
James Nicoll
2018-06-03 21:58:53 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
I left a "blame' out of "blame the hacks who adapted it? :)"
The X Minus One and DX crew often made stories even bleaker in the
adaptation. For example, in their version of Common Sense (I think?
the first half of Orphans of the Sky), the hero fails and is killed.
IIRC.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Greg Goss
2018-06-04 05:17:50 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Of course, many authors sell their stories to other media
for adaptation and are resigned to the fact that awful, if
not contrary versions will be made. "Did the check clear?"
is often the most important question about how the producers
treat their "children." Such resignation may be a virtue made
out of a necessity.
I vaguely remember a quote that Pournelle attributed to Heinlein.

"You drive up to the California border and toss your book across. A
few years later you drive up to the border again and they toss money
back at you. Caring any more deeply about what happens to your book
will only lead to frustration and depression."
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
h***@gmail.com
2018-06-04 05:50:54 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Of course, many authors sell their stories to other media
for adaptation and are resigned to the fact that awful, if
not contrary versions will be made. "Did the check clear?"
is often the most important question about how the producers
treat their "children." Such resignation may be a virtue made
out of a necessity.
I vaguely remember a quote that Pournelle attributed to Heinlein.
"You drive up to the California border and toss your book across. A
few years later you drive up to the border again and they toss money
back at you. Caring any more deeply about what happens to your book
will only lead to frustration and depression."
Allegedly Dave Morrell's agent was negotiating the rights for First Blood and said that he'd gotten a percentage of gross for any sequels.
Morrell said what's sequels? Rambo dies at the end.
the agent said, by the time they've finished with it don't be surprised if it's a musical.
Kevrob
2018-06-04 20:34:15 UTC
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Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Of course, many authors sell their stories to other media
for adaptation and are resigned to the fact that awful, if
not contrary versions will be made. "Did the check clear?"
is often the most important question about how the producers
treat their "children." Such resignation may be a virtue made
out of a necessity.
I vaguely remember a quote that Pournelle attributed to Heinlein.
"You drive up to the California border and toss your book across. A
few years later you drive up to the border again and they toss money
back at you. Caring any more deeply about what happens to your book
will only lead to frustration and depression."
Aha! Just the passage I was trying to remember.

Kevin R
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