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_Unexpected World: The EMP Survivor Series Book 1_ by Chris Pike
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Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 00:38:13 UTC
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_Unexpected World: The EMP Survivor Series Book 1_ by Chris Pike
https://www.amazon.com/Unexpected-World-EMP-Survivor-Book/dp/1534742913/

Book number one of a three book series about an EMP apocalypse in the
USA. I read the POD (print on demand) version in trade paperback with
very nice paper and fonts. I have purchased the second and third books
in the series. The author has promised a fourth book in the series.

An unexplained EMP happens to the USA in the southern region along the
Gulf Coast. The book does not tell what happens to the rest of the USA.
As with all EMP books, the damage is extreme, affecting all
automobiles, computers, electrical grids, etc, etc, etc. And airplanes.

The protagonist is in a courtroom in downtown Houston when the EMP hits
as he is awaiting the jury's decision on a charged murderer that he is
prosecuting. A plane subsequently crashes into the courthouse as the
protagonist is talking to his daughter who is on a plane to New Orleans
and the EMP kills their connection. Moments later, her plane crashes in
the Atchafalaya swamp.

I enjoyed the book very much, especially since it is set in Texas where
I live and in Louisiana. However, I disagree with the author that an
EMP over the USA will kill car computers. Regular computers wired to
the grid, yes. But car computers that live in the horrible environment
of automobiles with under-voltage, over-voltage, current spikes, etc,
etc, etc. Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.

My rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (670 reviews)

Lynn
Carl Fink
2017-05-16 13:34:53 UTC
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... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Dimensional Traveler
2017-05-16 16:02:05 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
--
"That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry."
Peter Trei
2017-05-16 19:06:36 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.

pt
Scott Lurndal
2017-05-16 19:51:37 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Robert Carnegie
2017-05-16 20:12:35 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.

Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2017-05-16 20:41:03 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
Anyone read Birmingham's _WIthout Warning_? Some sort of circular
energy field (still unexplained as of the end of book 2) depopulates
most of the US. Rest of the world has to react as do the survivors
in Hawaii, Alaska and Washington state.

Unfortuneately I thought book 2 took a big nose dive.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 21:45:15 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
I don't know of any PA books where the guns in the USA were seized
before or during the event. These PA do have invasions by foreigners
after or during the event.

https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Year-Jeff-Carlson/dp/0996082328/

https://www.amazon.com/Sixth-Column-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1451638728/

https://www.amazon.com/Holding-Their-Own-Story-Survival/dp/061556965X/

https://www.amazon.com/Hymn-Before-Battle-Posleen-War/dp/0671318411/

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2017-05-16 22:01:11 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
I don't know of any PA books where the guns in the USA were seized
before or during the event. These PA do have invasions by foreigners
after or during the event.
https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Year-Jeff-Carlson/dp/0996082328/
https://www.amazon.com/Sixth-Column-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1451638728/
https://www.amazon.com/Holding-Their-Own-Story-Survival/dp/061556965X/
https://www.amazon.com/Hymn-Before-Battle-Posleen-War/dp/0671318411/
Lynn
Well, the army usually takes people's guns upon
entry to the post-apocalypse labor camps, yes?

But I was thinking more of that color of
government being "weak" on the international
stage, therefore emboldening the foreign enemy,
plus simply /discouraging/ people from carrying
guns around all of the time, except for our
ornery heroes who mainly have to walk carefully
to not trip over the corpses of all the citizens
who didn't have a gun with them.

I mean, there /are/ going to be lectures about
politics, in these stories, and isn't a lecture
better for being illustrated?
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-17 00:05:46 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
I don't know of any PA books where the guns in the USA were seized
before or during the event. These PA do have invasions by foreigners
after or during the event.
https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Year-Jeff-Carlson/dp/0996082328/
https://www.amazon.com/Sixth-Column-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1451638728/
https://www.amazon.com/Holding-Their-Own-Story-Survival/dp/061556965X/
https://www.amazon.com/Hymn-Before-Battle-Posleen-War/dp/0671318411/
Lynn
Well, the army usually takes people's guns upon
entry to the post-apocalypse labor camps, yes?
But I was thinking more of that color of
government being "weak" on the international
stage, therefore emboldening the foreign enemy,
plus simply /discouraging/ people from carrying
guns around all of the time, except for our
ornery heroes who mainly have to walk carefully
to not trip over the corpses of all the citizens
who didn't have a gun with them.
I mean, there /are/ going to be lectures about
politics, in these stories, and isn't a lecture
better for being illustrated?
Several of the books call them FEMA camps. And just about everything is
seized on the way in.

BTW, there is always the ultimate PA book:
https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Men-Against-Chtorr-Book/dp/0671464949/

1. the USA invades Pakistan
2. the world subdues the USA
3. the USA surrenders
4. the world plunders the USA
5. 80% of the world's population dies with mysterious diseases
6. the worms appear
7. the world is being alienformed (the opposite of terraformed)

Lynn
James Nicoll
2017-05-17 04:11:04 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
I don't know of any PA books where the guns in the USA were seized
before or during the event. These PA do have invasions by foreigners
after or during the event.
I wonder if the aliens in The Crown Jewels bothered to disarm the natives
in the back story? It's not like human weapons were effective against
Earth's new landlords. It took humans learning civilized ways plus a
dynastic crisis for misguided humans to escape civilization.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Stephen Graham
2017-05-17 22:11:25 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
I wonder if the aliens in The Crown Jewels bothered to disarm the natives
in the back story? It's not like human weapons were effective against
Earth's new landlords. It took humans learning civilized ways plus a
dynastic crisis for misguided humans to escape civilization.
Surely it would have been déclassé to have done so?
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-17 22:39:48 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ah, but the authors of those stories all implicitly assume that Trump
has poisoned the well such that the rest of the world won't have anything
to do with the USA.
Not Trump but Bush. Or Reagan. We've been
talking about this stuff for a while. Now Trump.
Gun-grabber Democratic administrations may
perhaps have more of these fictions where one
or more foreign countries use the opportunity
to attack, if that isn't what happened in the
first place. Lynn, can you substantiate my
conjecture?
I don't know of any PA books where the guns in the USA were seized
before or during the event. These PA do have invasions by foreigners
after or during the event.
I wonder if the aliens in The Crown Jewels bothered to disarm the natives
in the back story? It's not like human weapons were effective against
Earth's new landlords. It took humans learning civilized ways plus a
dynastic crisis for misguided humans to escape civilization.
Most space aliens will probably use kinetic weapons. Very tough to
defend against.

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2017-05-16 22:34:17 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
The other unexamined assumption in these stories seem to be that the rest
of the world doesn't do a damn thing about it, sending aid, and helping
recovery, or even invading. They just turn their backs on 23% of world GDP
and pretend it doesn't exist.
As I recall, in a lot of these its because the entire rest of the world
set aside all their differences to secretly gang up on the US.
--
"That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry."
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 19:09:39 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
Now that is an exaggeration.

Lynn
Default User
2017-05-16 21:00:38 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Lynn's favorite genre is EMP induced apocalypse (or at least that's all
that Lynn reviews for us). We've had at least one long discussion of
the *ahem* implausibility of the setup.
Implausible doesn't mean bad. After all, I like stories where people hop on their FTL spaceships and go from star system A to star system B in a short time. Now that's implausible! But I like what I like.


Brian
James Nicoll
2017-05-16 16:11:26 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 18:55:20 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
I like that phrase ! I will steal it.

Lynn
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-05-16 19:00:29 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
Robert E. Howard argued that not only was that true, but it was a good
thing.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
James Nicoll
2017-05-16 19:18:48 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
Robert E. Howard argued that not only was that true, but it was a good
thing.
The comparative infrequency of system wide collapses suggests the model is
flawed.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2017-05-16 21:00:47 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
Robert E. Howard argued that not only was that true, but it was a good
thing.
The comparative infrequency of system wide collapses suggests the model is
flawed.
His suicide suggests that Robert E. Howard was flawed, so that fits.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Dimensional Traveler
2017-05-16 22:35:40 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
Robert E. Howard argued that not only was that true, but it was a good
thing.
The comparative infrequency of system wide collapses suggests the model is
flawed.
Humans are very good at not letting reality get in the way of their
theories about reality.
--
"That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry."
Don Kuenz
2017-05-17 16:18:31 UTC
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Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
A lot of people are heavily invested in the idea advanced civilization
is as delicate as spun sugar.
Robert E. Howard argued that not only was that true, but it was a good
thing.
The comparative infrequency of system wide collapses suggests the model is
flawed.
Humans are very good at not letting reality get in the way of their
theories about reality.
Amen! Humans excel at confirmation bias. ;0)

"I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I
cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern
shipbuilding has gone beyond that." - Edward J. Smith, Captain, RMS
Titanic

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 18:53:52 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

Lynn
Carl Fink
2017-05-16 19:18:03 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.

Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
David Johnston
2017-05-16 21:44:02 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
It doesn't much matter. The point of these stories is not to explore
what the results of a real EMP event would be but rather an arbitrary
collapse of civilization. It's an ASB event not an EMP event.
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-17 04:49:36 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
It doesn't much matter. The point of these stories is not to explore
what the results of a real EMP event would be but rather an arbitrary
collapse of civilization. It's an ASB event not an EMP event.
ASB = ?

Lynn
David Johnston
2017-05-17 05:34:08 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
It doesn't much matter. The point of these stories is not to explore
what the results of a real EMP event would be but rather an arbitrary
collapse of civilization. It's an ASB event not an EMP event.
ASB = ?
Lynn
Alien Space Bat. Any time something just impossible happens, like the
Nazis conquering the United States, or the Dome, or the Earth's rotation
slowing to a halt it's all the ASB's fault.
Kevrob
2017-05-18 07:54:24 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
It doesn't much matter. The point of these stories is not to explore
what the results of a real EMP event would be but rather an arbitrary
collapse of civilization. It's an ASB event not an EMP event.
ASB = ?
Lynn
Alien Space Bat. Any time something just impossible happens, like the
Nazis conquering the United States, or the Dome, or the Earth's rotation
slowing to a halt it's all the ASB's fault.
From the dear, late Alison Brooks, on soc.history.what-if

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_space_bats

Kevin R
larry
2017-05-20 16:28:56 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Alien Space Bat. Any time something just impossible happens, like the
Nazis conquering the United States, or the Dome, or the Earth's rotation
slowing to a halt it's all the ASB's fault.
I rather assumed that the archdruid, J Michael Greer,
originated that phrase and note that it preceded him.
--
After investigation, believe that which you have yourselves
tested and found reasonable, and which is for your good
and that of others.
Gautama.
David Goldfarb
2017-05-22 04:05:02 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Alien Space Bat. Any time something just impossible happens, like the
Nazis conquering the United States, or the Dome, or the Earth's rotation
slowing to a halt it's all the ASB's fault.
Just so. Powerful enough to do whatever you require of them,
alien and inscrutable enough not to need a reason.
--
David Goldfarb |"Federal Espresso: When you absolutely, positively,
***@gmail.com | have to stay up all night."
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Diane Reamy
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-16 22:01:06 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have seen several multiple MVA
transformers fry themselves and cause disastrous problems. We had a 25
? 30 ? MVA auxiliary transformer on a 500 MW unit meltdown one day and
took our 4,160 volt switch gear with it. Melted the one foot by six
inch copper bus bars clean through.

Those huge automatic transformers that use the 345 KV lines to feed the
138 KV and 69 KV lines ? We had one spare for our entire system. I
have no idea how many we had in service but at least 40 or 50 of those
bad boys over our 14,000 miles of transmission lines. If all of the
autotransformers get fried then those transmission lines will be
unusable for years.

And yes, I used to be an engineer at TESCO / TU Electric / TXU / EFH /
Vistra. Been there, done that, got the tshirt many times.
https://www.vistraenergy.com/

BTW, I have never seen a distribution system with over-voltage
protection every 50 meters. Are you talking about fusible links ? Just
about the only protection that distribution systems have here in Texas
are over-current fuses.

Lynn
Michael F. Stemper
2017-05-16 22:59:46 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Carl Fink
... Cars will probably survive the EMP but your electrical grid, not.
I happen to work for an electric utility. You do realize we have multiple
overvoltage protection systems *on every block*, literally?
Yup. The source of the over-voltage will be the transmission lines, not
the distribution lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Also have overvoltage protection, though obviously not ever 50 meters like
distribution. There would be problems, but at worst the grid would be
temporarily regionalized.
Outages, yes. Not survive? Nope.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have seen several multiple MVA
transformers fry themselves and cause disastrous problems. We had a 25
? 30 ? MVA auxiliary transformer on a 500 MW unit meltdown one day and
took our 4,160 volt switch gear with it. Melted the one foot by six
inch copper bus bars clean through.
Those huge automatic transformers that use the 345 KV lines to feed the
138 KV and 69 KV lines ? We had one spare for our entire system. I
have no idea how many we had in service but at least 40 or 50 of those
bad boys over our 14,000 miles of transmission lines. If all of the
autotransformers get fried then those transmission lines will be
unusable for years.
Not so much unusable as useless. The lines'll be fine, but the operators
won't be able to get any power from the lines to the distribution
system. And yeah, surge arrestors and arcing horns are nice, but the
real problem (in my opinion) is that EMP events will cause large neutral
current flows through the transformers.

The lack of spares is a flaw inherent in the system. EPRI and DHS have
issued a position on the topic:

<https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/RecX%20-%20Emergency%20Spare%20Transformer%20Strategy-508.pdf>

When I was building substations (a very long time ago), my employer had
an ongoing project for hydro import over our first ever 500 kV line. Not
being totally stupid, the lead engineer specified that the 500-345
transformer be built as single-phase units, and bought four -- one for
an in-place spare. (I watched the delivery of one phase, and I don't
think that it would have been possible to build a three-phase unit that
could fit on a Schnabel car or be carried over the roads from railroad
to substation.)
Post by Lynn McGuire
And yes, I used to be an engineer at TESCO / TU Electric / TXU / EFH /
Vistra. Been there, done that, got the tshirt many times.
Lucky you. All I got from them was a baseball cap!
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
Carl Fink
2017-05-17 14:07:02 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have seen several multiple MVA
transformers fry themselves and cause disastrous problems. We had a 25
? 30 ? MVA auxiliary transformer on a 500 MW unit meltdown one day and
took our 4,160 volt switch gear with it. Melted the one foot by six
inch copper bus bars clean through.
I had one do that literally in my backyard. (I lived next door to the
now-decommissioned Glenwood Power Station.)
Post by Lynn McGuire
Those huge automatic transformers that use the 345 KV lines to feed the
138 KV and 69 KV lines ? We had one spare for our entire system. I
have no idea how many we had in service but at least 40 or 50 of those
bad boys over our 14,000 miles of transmission lines. If all of the
autotransformers get fried then those transmission lines will be
unusable for years.
Redundancy is getting a higher priority in this country after Katrina and
especially Sandy, of course.

There would be damage, in whatever area the EMP actually affected. The system
would survive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I have never seen a distribution system with over-voltage
protection every 50 meters. Are you talking about fusible links ? Just
about the only protection that distribution systems have here in Texas
are over-current fuses.
Fusible links, substation breakers, various surge arresters, reclosers,
transformer breakers ....
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Lynn McGuire
2017-05-17 17:41:49 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have seen several multiple MVA
transformers fry themselves and cause disastrous problems. We had a 25
? 30 ? MVA auxiliary transformer on a 500 MW unit meltdown one day and
took our 4,160 volt switch gear with it. Melted the one foot by six
inch copper bus bars clean through.
I had one do that literally in my backyard. (I lived next door to the
now-decommissioned Glenwood Power Station.)
Post by Lynn McGuire
Those huge automatic transformers that use the 345 KV lines to feed the
138 KV and 69 KV lines ? We had one spare for our entire system. I
have no idea how many we had in service but at least 40 or 50 of those
bad boys over our 14,000 miles of transmission lines. If all of the
autotransformers get fried then those transmission lines will be
unusable for years.
Redundancy is getting a higher priority in this country after Katrina and
especially Sandy, of course.
There would be damage, in whatever area the EMP actually affected. The system
would survive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I have never seen a distribution system with over-voltage
protection every 50 meters. Are you talking about fusible links ? Just
about the only protection that distribution systems have here in Texas
are over-current fuses.
Fusible links, substation breakers, various surge arresters, reclosers,
transformer breakers ....
I am a power plant engineer, not a transmission or distribution engineer.

Are surge arrestors good for over voltage or over current ? Can they
stop 2 to 3 million volts ? BTW, CME and EMP seem to have different
behavior from my reading. EMP is quick, CME lasts for minutes.

Lynn
Carl Fink
2017-05-17 18:15:28 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Are surge arrestors good for over voltage or over current ? Can they
stop 2 to 3 million volts ? BTW, CME and EMP seem to have different
behavior from my reading. EMP is quick, CME lasts for minutes.
Surge arrestors are designed for lightning, mostly, though they deal with
other stuff, or so I'm told.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Robert Carnegie
2017-05-17 18:30:07 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Are surge arrestors good for over voltage or over current ? Can they
stop 2 to 3 million volts ? BTW, CME and EMP seem to have different
behavior from my reading. EMP is quick, CME lasts for minutes.
Surge arrestors are designed for lightning, mostly, though they deal with
other stuff, or so I'm told.
I'd like to assert that electrical engineers know
about CME (Carrington Event etc.) - but do they?
Michael F. Stemper
2017-05-17 20:34:13 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Are surge arrestors good for over voltage or over current ?
Surge arrestors are for squelching voltage surges; they're line to
ground devices, rather than in-line (like breakers and fuses).
They do their job by going heavily conducting when they experience
overvoltage conditions.

The simplest overvoltage device is a spark-gap. You get two chunks of
aluminum (generally) that are separated by an air-gap that won't
break down under normal line-to-ground voltage, or voltages that will
be encountered when the system's running "hot", or even voltages that
would be encountered during extreme line-switching operations.

When a surge hits the spark-gap, if it's big enough, it'll cause the
air between the tips to break down and go conducting. This will drain
off a lot of the charge that's associated with the overvoltage. The
time frame, if I recall correctly, is on the order of a handful of
micro-seconds. But, now that the air's been ionized, the arc will
continue even after voltage has been dropped to (or even below) normal.

So, what you have is a line-to-ground fault, just like if a bird had
peed on the line. Relays'll detect the fault and breakers in the right
zone will trip to clear it.

More sophisticated are real surge arrestors. They have some tiny
arc gaps in series with other (proprietary) stuff, so that they can
actually drain the current and then stop conducting. Now, we're in
the time frame of a small number of milliseconds.

Back in the day, Ohio Brass had some extra-special proprietary stuff
that allowed them to build gapless arrestors. Basically an extremely
non-linear resistor with no hysteresis.

The smoother the operation, the better. The reason is traveling waves.
If an arc-gap suddenly shorts a line, it creates a wave of opposite
sign that spreads both ways. Thus, you end up having another wave
that can do just as much damage.

So, there's a lot of work done coordinating transformer insulation
levels with the wave-shapes and sizes of various surges, along with
the distance of horns or arrestors from the transformer.
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Can they
stop 2 to 3 million volts ?
As you'd guess, the voltages that a surge arrestor can reduce will
depend greatly on the voltage rating of the surge arrestor. An arrestor
designed for installation on a 69 kV line will not be able to do what
an arrestor for a 500 kV line could.

The latter are, of course, much pricier. Additionally, if you put a
500 kV arrestor on a 69 kV bus, it's not ever gonna operate.
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Lynn McGuire
stop 2 to 3 million volts ? BTW, CME and EMP seem to have different
behavior from my reading. EMP is quick, CME lasts for minutes.
Surge arrestors are designed for lightning, mostly, though they deal with
other stuff, or so I'm told.
You were told correctly.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Economists have correctly predicted seven of the last three recessions.
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