Discussion:
Does antimatter "fall" up?
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Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-11-05 18:04:29 UTC
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Nobody thinks it will, but it's never been tested until now:

https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/

Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-05 18:54:46 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many years
ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands buttered side down
and a cat always lands on its feet. We wondered if you could get
anti-gravity if you strapped a piece of buttered bread (buttered side
up) to the back of a cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the
ground spinning?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Tim McCaffrey
2018-11-05 19:10:58 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many years
ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands buttered side down
and a cat always lands on its feet. We wondered if you could get
anti-gravity if you strapped a piece of buttered bread (buttered side
up) to the back of a cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the
ground spinning?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
https://imgur.com/gallery/wUTjLTf
Tim McCaffrey
2018-11-05 19:55:27 UTC
Reply
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Post by Tim McCaffrey
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many years
ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands buttered side down
and a cat always lands on its feet. We wondered if you could get
anti-gravity if you strapped a piece of buttered bread (buttered side
up) to the back of a cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the
ground spinning?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
https://imgur.com/gallery/wUTjLTf
The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, July 22, 1988:

At about 3:35

- Tim
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-05 23:57:34 UTC
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Post by Tim McCaffrey
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many years
ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands buttered side down
and a cat always lands on its feet. We wondered if you could get
anti-gravity if you strapped a piece of buttered bread (buttered side
up) to the back of a cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the
ground spinning?
https://imgur.com/gallery/wUTjLTf
This is more accessible:

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-05 18:28:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57
090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now,
CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new spin on
that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a vacuum
chamber to see if gravity affects it the same way it does
matter - or if antimatter falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally busted.)
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the same
thought. Billions of people have had the same thought. Billions more
will.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-05 21:12:12 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57
090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now,
CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new spin on
that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a vacuum
chamber to see if gravity affects it the same way it does
matter - or if antimatter falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally busted.)
Hence the quotes around "known".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the same
thought. Billions of people have had the same thought. Billions more
will.
Someday someone has got to figure out how to make it work.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-05 21:49:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments
/57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped
in a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon.
Now, CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new
spin on that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a
vacuum chamber to see if gravity affects it the same
way it does matter - or if antimatter falls upwards
instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally
busted.)
Hence the quotes around "known".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the
same thought. Billions of people have had the same thought.
Billions more will.
Someday someone has got to figure out how to make it work.
I'm kind surprised Mythbusters didn't, after determining the myth
was busted. I guess they couldn't figure out how to control the
landing position of toast using explosives.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-06 00:09:29 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments
/57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped
in a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon.
Now, CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new
spin on that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a
vacuum chamber to see if gravity affects it the same
way it does matter - or if antimatter falls upwards
instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally
busted.)
Hence the quotes around "known".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the
same thought. Billions of people have had the same thought.
Billions more will.
Someday someone has got to figure out how to make it work.
I'm kind surprised Mythbusters didn't, after determining the myth
was busted. I guess they couldn't figure out how to control the
landing position of toast using explosives.
Sounds about right. I vaguely remember a conveyor belt of buttered
bread slices on the roof of MI-5 but can't remember where they went with
it after they busted the myth.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-11-06 02:19:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments
/57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped
in a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon.
Now, CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new
spin on that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a
vacuum chamber to see if gravity affects it the same
way it does matter - or if antimatter falls upwards
instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally
busted.)
Hence the quotes around "known".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the
same thought. Billions of people have had the same thought.
Billions more will.
Someday someone has got to figure out how to make it work.
I'm kind surprised Mythbusters didn't, after determining the myth
was busted. I guess they couldn't figure out how to control the
landing position of toast using explosives.
To say nothing of the effect on the cat. If they think
explosives are dangerous, they should fear the wrath of millions
of cat people.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-11-06 03:22:04 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 11/5/2018 10:28 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Nobody thinks it will, but it's never been tested until
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experimen
ts /57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped
in a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon.
Now, CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky
new spin on that experiment, by dropping antimatter
in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity affects it the
same way it does matter - or if antimatter falls
upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had
many years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always
lands buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally
busted.)
Hence the quotes around "known".
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a
piece of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a
cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground
spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had
the same thought. Billions of people have had the same
thought. Billions more will.
Someday someone has got to figure out how to make it work.
I'm kind surprised Mythbusters didn't, after determining the
myth was busted. I guess they couldn't figure out how to control
the landing position of toast using explosives.
To say nothing of the effect on the cat. If they think
explosives are dangerous, they should fear the wrath of millions
of cat people.
Couldn't have been any more frightening than when they basically
called Carlos Hathcock a liar. (I suspect Hathcock wouldn't have
given a shit if he'd still been alive, but his fans were . . .
vocal in their displeasure.) They did correct it in a later
episode, though.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-11-05 22:38:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57
090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now,
CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new spin on
that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a vacuum
chamber to see if gravity affects it the same way it does
matter - or if antimatter falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally busted.)
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the same
thought. Billions of people have had the same thought. Billions more
will.
Well, the cat (almost) landing on its feet isn't a myth; the cat
turns in mid-air till its feet are under it. The vet we used to
go to had a series of Muybridge-style photos of a cat, dropped
from maybe four or five feet with its feet above it, twisting and
turning acrobatically till its feet were pointing down before it
hit the floor.

As for buttered bread, I haven't been able to eat bread for so
long that I can't recall any examples of it falling either way.
I suspect, though, that if the bread falls butter side down the
dropper will notice it and be annoyed, and if it falls butter
side up s/he will pay no attention and forget it.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-05 21:52:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/
57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in
a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now,
CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new spin
on that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a vacuum
chamber to see if gravity affects it the same way it
does matter - or if antimatter falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally busted.)
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the
same thought. Billions of people have had the same thought.
Billions more will.
Well, the cat (almost) landing on its feet isn't a myth; the cat
turns in mid-air till its feet are under it.
It's not 100%, but it's the way to bet.

The toast thing, however, was completely busted.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Greg Goss
2018-11-06 08:44:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57
090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now,
CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new spin on
that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a vacuum
chamber to see if gravity affects it the same way it does
matter - or if antimatter falls upwards instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many
years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally busted.)
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a piece
of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a cat and
dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the same
thought. Billions of people have had the same thought. Billions more
will.
Well, the cat (almost) landing on its feet isn't a myth; the cat
turns in mid-air till its feet are under it. The vet we used to
go to had a series of Muybridge-style photos of a cat, dropped
from maybe four or five feet with its feet above it, twisting and
turning acrobatically till its feet were pointing down before it
hit the floor.
As for buttered bread, I haven't been able to eat bread for so
long that I can't recall any examples of it falling either way.
I suspect, though, that if the bread falls butter side down the
dropper will notice it and be annoyed, and if it falls butter
side up s/he will pay no attention and forget it.
I think I read an analysis once. When you slide a slice of bread off
a counter or table, gravity draws down the first edge before the last
edge leaves the table, imparting a rotation. But only enough rotation
to go a half turn before hitting the floor.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-06 15:44:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments
/57 090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped
in a vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously
demonstrated by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon.
Now, CERN scientists are preparing to put a spooky new
spin on that experiment, by dropping antimatter in a
vacuum chamber to see if gravity affects it the same
way it does matter - or if antimatter falls upwards
instead.
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had
many years ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands
buttered side down
Wasn't that an episode of Mythbusters? (It was. Totally
busted.)
Post by Dimensional Traveler
and a cat always lands on its feet. We
wondered if you could get anti-gravity if you strapped a
piece of buttered bread (buttered side up) to the back of a
cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the ground
spinning?
Pretty much everybody who has ever heard both myths has had the
same thought. Billions of people have had the same thought.
Billions more will.
Well, the cat (almost) landing on its feet isn't a myth; the cat
turns in mid-air till its feet are under it. The vet we used to
go to had a series of Muybridge-style photos of a cat, dropped
from maybe four or five feet with its feet above it, twisting
and turning acrobatically till its feet were pointing down
before it hit the floor.
As for buttered bread, I haven't been able to eat bread for so
long that I can't recall any examples of it falling either way.
I suspect, though, that if the bread falls butter side down the
dropper will notice it and be annoyed, and if it falls butter
side up s/he will pay no attention and forget it.
I think I read an analysis once. When you slide a slice of
bread off a counter or table, gravity draws down the first edge
before the last edge leaves the table, imparting a rotation.
But only enough rotation to go a half turn before hitting the
floor.
One can reach any conclusion one wants, with a little effort. But
again, practical testing has shown that's not really how it works.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Bo Lindbergh
2018-11-05 19:32:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Reminds me of a thought experiment some friends and I had many years
ago. Its "known" that buttered bread always lands buttered side down
and a cat always lands on its feet. We wondered if you could get
anti-gravity if you strapped a piece of buttered bread (buttered side
up) to the back of a cat and dropped it. Would it just hover above the
ground spinning?
No. The cat would land feet down and then immediately start trying
to scrape the bread off by rolling on the floor.


/Bo Lindbergh
Christian Weisgerber
2018-11-05 22:15:17 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
I've seen occasional mentions like this in the press, which is odd,
because I thought it had long ago been established that antimatter
does not have negative mass.

For the nifty/bizarre things you could do with negative mass, see
Robert L. Forward's... _Timemaster_, I think it was.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-05 21:50:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57
090/
I've seen occasional mentions like this in the press, which is
odd, because I thought it had long ago been established that
antimatter does not have negative mass.
I believe the expectation is that while it will interact with gravity
in the same way, it may not be *exactly* the same way.

That, and, of course, the opportunity to get grant money with many,
many, many zeroes on the cheque.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2018-11-06 03:03:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 22:15:17 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
I've seen occasional mentions like this in the press, which is odd,
because I thought it had long ago been established that antimatter
does not have negative mass.
In principle it doesn't. However until it has been tested there is a
chance that the principle is wrong. That's how progress gets made in
physics, by performing an experiment whose outcome you believe you
know and finding that it is not what you expect.
Post by Christian Weisgerber
For the nifty/bizarre things you could do with negative mass, see
Robert L. Forward's... _Timemaster_, I think it was.
Quadibloc
2018-11-06 06:40:08 UTC
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Permalink
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-11-06 12:15:34 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?

And when has this been demonstrated?
Quadibloc
2018-11-06 14:34:10 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
Well, energy is what you get when you add matter and antimatter together. One is
sort of expecting a conservation law to apply here.
Post by J. Clarke
And when has this been demonstrated?
Stars being displaced near the Sun, as observed during a solar eclipse, in what
was viewed as an early confirmation of part of General Relativity?

John Savard
Alan Baker
2018-11-06 17:36:48 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
Well, energy is what you get when you add matter and antimatter together. One is
sort of expecting a conservation law to apply here.
Post by J. Clarke
And when has this been demonstrated?
Stars being displaced near the Sun, as observed during a solar eclipse, in what
was viewed as an early confirmation of part of General Relativity?
John Savard
That demonstrates the curvature of spacetime.
Robert Carnegie
2018-11-06 21:45:46 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
Well, energy is what you get when you add matter and antimatter together. One is
sort of expecting a conservation law to apply here.
Post by J. Clarke
And when has this been demonstrated?
Stars being displaced near the Sun, as observed during a solar eclipse, in what
was viewed as an early confirmation of part of General Relativity?
John Savard
"Gravity" is really just the shape that spacetime is, and
(depending on velocity) affects everything equally...

...in theory.
David DeLaney
2018-11-17 12:26:51 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Stars being displaced near the Sun, as observed during a solar eclipse, in what
was viewed as an early confirmation of part of General Relativity?
Antimatter can't travel at lightspeed. Anything that DOES travel at lightspeed
is massless, and follows geodesics; to figure those, you have to do math where
gravity isn't a _force_ at all. Light's always taking the shortest metric-
distance between two points; sometimes that gives you a curved line.

Whether antimatter has the same interaction sign with classical gravity isn't
too related to what paths light follows. It's QUITE definitely worth checking,
much like the number of teeth in actual women's mouths was.

Dave, at least, that's my take on it 25 years after I fell off the theoretical
particle physics train
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Robert Woodward
2018-11-06 18:08:51 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Ahem, protons and anti-protons are KNOWN to produce energy when they
annihilate each other. Thus, they are both forms of energy and should
interact with gravity in the same way as energy does.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-06 19:45:54 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Ahem, protons and anti-protons are KNOWN to produce energy when they
annihilate each other. Thus, they are both forms of energy and should
interact with gravity in the same way as energy does.
According to current understanding, yes. The experiment should help
make sure reality agrees with our "current understanding". ;)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
J. Clarke
2018-11-07 01:54:25 UTC
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On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 11:45:54 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Ahem, protons and anti-protons are KNOWN to produce energy when they
annihilate each other. Thus, they are both forms of energy and should
interact with gravity in the same way as energy does.
According to current understanding, yes. The experiment should help
make sure reality agrees with our "current understanding". ;)
And the most desirable outcome of any experiment in physics is for it
to show us that our current understanding is wrong.
Alan Baker
2018-11-07 02:48:32 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 11:45:54 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Ahem, protons and anti-protons are KNOWN to produce energy when they
annihilate each other. Thus, they are both forms of energy and should
interact with gravity in the same way as energy does.
According to current understanding, yes. The experiment should help
make sure reality agrees with our "current understanding". ;)
And the most desirable outcome of any experiment in physics is for it
to show us that our current understanding is wrong.
It certainly provides the greatest chance of learning something new...

...but I don't think this one is going to fall out that way.
J. Clarke
2018-11-07 01:53:32 UTC
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On Tue, 06 Nov 2018 10:08:51 -0800, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
If you don't count the fact that energy falls down, yes.
What does that have to do with antimatter?
And when has this been demonstrated?
Ahem, protons and anti-protons are KNOWN to produce energy when they
annihilate each other. Thus, they are both forms of energy and should
interact with gravity in the same way as energy does.
So when has it been demonstrated that antimatter falls down? It
doesn't matter what theory says, it doesn't matter what _you_ think,
when has it been _demonstrated_? Physics builds models based on
experiments. If the experiment disagrees with the model then the
model is wrong.
Quadibloc
2018-11-11 03:34:27 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
So when has it been demonstrated that antimatter falls down? It
doesn't matter what theory says, it doesn't matter what _you_ think,
when has it been _demonstrated_? Physics builds models based on
experiments. If the experiment disagrees with the model then the
model is wrong.
Yes, that is true. Experiments, however, cost money, and otherwise consume time
and resources. Thus, if a model is validated by other experiments - some of
which are very closely related to the proposed experiment - then a given
experiment to test the model will, rightly, be given a low priority.

Matter falls down. Matter plus anti-matter makes energy. Energy falls down by
exactly the same amount as matter. If anti-matter fell up, that wouldn't just
overthrow general relativity (which has passed a number of experimental tests)
it would also throw the whole principle of having conservation laws into
question.

In fact, some versions of the Eotvos experiment are claimed to have already
tested whether anti-matter falls down, because substances emitting such high-
energy gamma rays that electron-positron pairs would be present in them were
among the samples weighted.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-11-11 04:53:19 UTC
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:34:27 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
So when has it been demonstrated that antimatter falls down? It
doesn't matter what theory says, it doesn't matter what _you_ think,
when has it been _demonstrated_? Physics builds models based on
experiments. If the experiment disagrees with the model then the
model is wrong.
Yes, that is true. Experiments, however, cost money, and otherwise consume time
and resources. Thus, if a model is validated by other experiments - some of
which are very closely related to the proposed experiment - then a given
experiment to test the model will, rightly, be given a low priority.
Matter falls down. Matter plus anti-matter makes energy. Energy falls down by
exactly the same amount as matter. If anti-matter fell up, that wouldn't just
overthrow general relativity (which has passed a number of experimental tests)
it would also throw the whole principle of having conservation laws into
question.
And invalidating relativity and the conservation laws is a bad thing
because?

Hint--if physics as we know it is wrong, the grant-recieving
opportunities increase exponentially.
Post by Quadibloc
In fact, some versions of the Eotvos experiment are claimed to have already
tested whether anti-matter falls down, because substances emitting such high-
energy gamma rays that electron-positron pairs would be present in them were
among the samples weighted.
And they are sensitive enough to detect the mass difference due to a
few positrons being present?
Quadibloc
2018-11-11 19:34:48 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
And invalidating relativity and the conservation laws is a bad thing
because?
My point isn't that it would be a bad thing, if those laws were invalid, but
that it's an extremely _unlikely_ thing. So unlikely as hardly to be worth an
effort.
Post by J. Clarke
And they are sensitive enough to detect the mass difference due to a
few positrons being present?
I can't say for certain, but I know the whole point of that experiment was to be
highly sensitive.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-11-12 00:10:55 UTC
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 11:34:48 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
And invalidating relativity and the conservation laws is a bad thing
because?
My point isn't that it would be a bad thing, if those laws were invalid, but
that it's an extremely _unlikely_ thing. So unlikely as hardly to be worth an
effort.
And yet we know that there is a domain in which relativity is
questionable and that it makes several predictions that are difficult
to swallow.
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
And they are sensitive enough to detect the mass difference due to a
few positrons being present?
I can't say for certain, but I know the whole point of that experiment was to be
highly sensitive.
John Savard
Michael F. Stemper
2018-11-10 21:41:51 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
The "negative matter" in the later Lensmen books did have negative mass.

A consequence of this (not brought out in the books) was that a ball
of matter placed adjacent to a ball with an equal amount of negative
matter would take off as a system, continuously accelerating.

No problems with conservation of energy, since the total kinetic
energy of the system would be zero, corresponding to its total mass
of zero.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Isaiah 10:1-2
Dan Swartzendruber
2018-11-11 00:52:05 UTC
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In article <ps7jbi$jqr$***@dont-email.me>, ***@gmail.com
says...
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
The "negative matter" in the later Lensmen books did have negative mass.
They used tractor beams to repel the negamatter bombs, IIRC.
Michael F. Stemper
2018-11-11 17:13:22 UTC
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Post by Dan Swartzendruber
says...
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
The "negative matter" in the later Lensmen books did have negative mass.
They used tractor beams to repel the negamatter bombs, IIRC.
Your visualization of the Cosmic All is correct.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.
Steve Dodds
2018-11-11 17:55:44 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
There is a theory from years back that says antimatter is regular matter
moving backwards through time, if that's the case them yes antimatter
would fall up, it would move away from any gravity source.
Anonymous
2018-11-11 23:04:38 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
I'll go on record here and predict that they discover that anti-
matter will fall exactly the same was as "regular" matter does.
Gravity is the curvature of space-time and anti-matter occupies
space-time. So I expect it to act the same as everything else does.

I look forward to the rersults of the experiment.



Adamastor Glace Mortimer
Sjouke Burry
2018-11-11 23:55:31 UTC
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Hash: SHA512
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
https://newatlas.com/cern-antimatter-gravity-experiments/57090/
Physics tells us that a hammer and a feather, dropped in a
vacuum, will fall at the same rate - as famously demonstrated
by an Apollo 15 astronaut on the Moon. Now, CERN scientists
are preparing to put a spooky new spin on that experiment,
by dropping antimatter in a vacuum chamber to see if gravity
affects it the same way it does matter - or if antimatter
falls upwards instead.
I'll go on record here and predict that they discover that anti-
matter will fall exactly the same was as "regular" matter does.
Gravity is the curvature of space-time and anti-matter occupies
space-time. So I expect it to act the same as everything else does.
I look forward to the rersults of the experiment.
When the antimatter hits the floor......

You better use small AM molecules.
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