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[tor dot com] 13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War -- At Least Briefly
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James Nicoll
2018-11-01 14:07:37 UTC
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13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly

https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Peter Trei
2018-11-01 16:44:41 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I'd be curious to see Lynn's reaction to these works.

pt
Greg Goss
2018-11-06 08:08:09 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I'd be curious to see Lynn's reaction to these works.
For Ing, I would have picked "Pulling through".
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Robert Woodward
2018-11-01 17:16:00 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-lea
st-briefly/
_Triumph_ by Phillip Wylie. A millionaire, including family and house
guests ride out the exchange and the aftermath in a massive deep
underground bunker (IMS, completely self-contained with weeks, even
months, of stored air supply). IIRC, dirty bombs (both cobalt and sodium
jacketed) were used.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-01 17:46:53 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.

Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/

The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-11-01 23:44:24 UTC
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On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.

But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-11-02 01:30:40 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story.
That, alas, frequently happens when someone who writes lit-fic,
or even some other genre than sff, tried to write sff.

They don't know anything about (a) science or (b) fantasy.

I've mentioned John Hersey's _White Lotus_ before. It boils down
to an attempt to parallel the history of black people in America
and thus say to white people, "What if it happened to you?" So a
young woman from Arizona or someplace is captured by slavers,
sold onto a slave boat, crosses the pacific, is sold, undergoes
years of abuse, finally is emancipated, tries to make a living as
a tenant farmer, and finally joins a civil rights movement. All
before she's middle-aged.

Lawrence Block was an excellent mystery writer; but toward the
end of his life he tried to write a fantasy. It's called _Random
Walk._ Don't ever read it. It's written in alternating
chapters: in the first (or so) chapter, a man decides to start
walking across North America. He doesn't know why, he just does
it. In subsequent chapters, other people join him. In the
*other* alternating chapters we follow a serial rapist and
murderer, who is also wandering across the continent, raping and
murdering as he goes, in really excessive detail. At the end the
two threads join up, ISTR the murderer is killed, and the
wanderers have an epiphany of some kind. I took my copy and tore
all the rape-and-murder chapters out, and realized that what was
left *still* didn't have a plot.

By the end of it I wanted
Post by J. Clarke
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
Or, like Mark Twain, that he should fall down a well; or, like
Marion Zimmer Bradley, that he should get swallowed up by an
eartquake. I hear you.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Joe Bernstein
2018-11-02 19:18:13 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story.
That, alas, frequently happens when someone who writes lit-fic,
or even some other genre than sff, tried to write sff.
They don't know anything about (a) science or (b) fantasy.
I assume you also want there (c) science fiction ?

Anyway, yes, that frequently happens, but it also frequently fails to
happen.

I value the only spec-ficnal work by Mitchell Smith, a trilogy set
long after a non-nuclear apocalypse.

Thought I could cite Molly Gloss and Mark Helprin there, but both
turn out to have written rather more spec-fic than I knew. That's a
risk when dissing some interloper. What were in-genre opinions when
Walter Mosley started writing sf?

Stephen Donaldson originally intended the first Thomas Covenant
trilogy as lit-fic. Granted that, or his work in general, aren't to
everyone's taste, but I'm pretty sure he knew a fair amount about
fantasy even back then.

Joe Bernstein
who did remember that <To the Chapel Perilous> wasn't Naomi
Mitchison's only, or even first, venture into our genres
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
Moriarty
2018-11-06 05:28:46 UTC
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On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 12:40:02 PM UTC+11, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

<snips
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That, alas, frequently happens when someone who writes lit-fic,
or even some other genre than sff, tried to write sff.
They don't know anything about (a) science or (b) fantasy.
Lawrence Block was an excellent mystery writer; but toward the
end of his life he tried to write a fantasy. It's called _Random
Walk._
It does sound very much like Not Your Sort Of Book. But, FYI, _Random Walk_ was written in 1988, and Lawrence Block is still very much alive.

He's had a varied career, going by his wikipedia page, with a fair chunk of his output being porn written under various pseudonyms. Here's another book you'll never want to read:

Loading Image...

-Moriarty
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-02 18:20:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?

BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-11-03 00:05:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.

If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
Magewolf
2018-11-03 21:35:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
Actually you would be better off getting Fallout: New Vegas. It's a
better game and runs with no problems on modern systems. And if you want
the full experience if you own both Fallout 3 and New Vegas you can use
a mod to get all of Fallout 3 in New Vegas with the updated engine
integrated together with all the New Vegas assets to make one giant game.
J. Clarke
2018-11-03 23:24:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
Actually you would be better off getting Fallout: New Vegas. It's a
better game and runs with no problems on modern systems.
Both are eminently replayable, especially with mods. And neither has
any problem running at 4K on my Windows 10 Geforce 1080 Skylake
machine, which I believe qualifies as a "modern system"..

New Vegas has crashed regularly on every machine on which I've played
it. Dual monitor helps, it tends to just freeze one screen. Strongly
recommend the CASM mod to ensure that you have a fairly recent save.

I agree that it's a better game.
Post by Magewolf
And if you want
the full experience if you own both Fallout 3 and New Vegas you can use
a mod to get all of Fallout 3 in New Vegas with the updated engine
integrated together with all the New Vegas assets to make one giant game.
You can but you still have to pay for both.
Magewolf
2018-11-04 15:01:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Magewolf
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
Actually you would be better off getting Fallout: New Vegas. It's a
better game and runs with no problems on modern systems.
Both are eminently replayable, especially with mods. And neither has
any problem running at 4K on my Windows 10 Geforce 1080 Skylake
machine, which I believe qualifies as a "modern system"..
New Vegas has crashed regularly on every machine on which I've played
it. Dual monitor helps, it tends to just freeze one screen. Strongly
recommend the CASM mod to ensure that you have a fairly recent save.
I agree that it's a better game.
Post by Magewolf
And if you want
the full experience if you own both Fallout 3 and New Vegas you can use
a mod to get all of Fallout 3 in New Vegas with the updated engine
integrated together with all the New Vegas assets to make one giant game.
You can but you still have to pay for both.
I Have never actually tried Fallout 3 on windows 10 since I have the
merged New Vegas version on my win 7 machine. But I remember it being
incredibly unstable when I tried running it on win 8 or 8.1 and there
was a lot of talk about it being worse on win 10.
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-05 05:59:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.

I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.

Lynn
Chris Buckley
2018-11-05 13:14:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Another addict! I've played many thousands of games of Spider Solitaire.
Definitely the royalty of solitaire. So much potential for skill and
improvement, though I think I've plateaued out over the past year or two.

Chris
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-05 18:43:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Another addict! I've played many thousands of games of Spider Solitaire.
Definitely the royalty of solitaire. So much potential for skill and
improvement, though I think I've plateaued out over the past year or two.
Chris
I cannot get consistently above 18% in Spider Solitaire. Just too much
luck is required.

Lynn
Chris Buckley
2018-11-08 00:41:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Another addict! I've played many thousands of games of Spider Solitaire.
Definitely the royalty of solitaire. So much potential for skill and
improvement, though I think I've plateaued out over the past year or two.
Chris
I cannot get consistently above 18% in Spider Solitaire. Just too much
luck is required.
Lynn
My last big score file was over 5,000 games, with a winning percentage
of 37.1%. That's playing as "pure" a game as possible. Eg, play and
count all games and undo is turned off so I'm not even tempted. So you
may need less luck than you think!

I recently got a new computer and decided to start a new score file to
see if my conjecture is right that I can get a couple of percentage
points better if I both avoid the outright blunders and having the
cats walking on the keyboard! Alas, after a couple of hundred games
of careful play without blunders or cats I'm only at 35%. So if
improvement is possible, it looks like an algorithm change is needed.

Chris
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-11-08 01:00:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Another addict! I've played many thousands of games of Spider Solitaire.
Definitely the royalty of solitaire. So much potential for skill and
improvement, though I think I've plateaued out over the past year or two.
Chris
I cannot get consistently above 18% in Spider Solitaire. Just too much
luck is required.
Lynn
My last big score file was over 5,000 games, with a winning percentage
of 37.1%. That's playing as "pure" a game as possible. Eg, play and
count all games and undo is turned off so I'm not even tempted. So you
may need less luck than you think!
I recently got a new computer and decided to start a new score file to
see if my conjecture is right that I can get a couple of percentage
points better if I both avoid the outright blunders and having the
cats walking on the keyboard! Alas, after a couple of hundred games
of careful play without blunders or cats I'm only at 35%. So if
improvement is possible, it looks like an algorithm change is needed.
Chris
I see a roc in your future.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Chris Buckley
2018-11-08 22:42:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Another addict! I've played many thousands of games of Spider Solitaire.
Definitely the royalty of solitaire. So much potential for skill and
improvement, though I think I've plateaued out over the past year or two.
Chris
I cannot get consistently above 18% in Spider Solitaire. Just too much
luck is required.
Lynn
My last big score file was over 5,000 games, with a winning percentage
of 37.1%. That's playing as "pure" a game as possible. Eg, play and
count all games and undo is turned off so I'm not even tempted. So you
may need less luck than you think!
I recently got a new computer and decided to start a new score file to
see if my conjecture is right that I can get a couple of percentage
points better if I both avoid the outright blunders and having the
cats walking on the keyboard! Alas, after a couple of hundred games
of careful play without blunders or cats I'm only at 35%. So if
improvement is possible, it looks like an algorithm change is needed.
Chris
I see a roc in your future.
Simple principles can take you a long ways in Spider, if you can figure out
how to implement them.
Basically (the first two are obvious, the third has major implications):
1. Maximize number of holes
2. Turn over as many cards as possible
3. Maximize the number of non-king columns with a minimum number
of suit (or worse, rank) breaks.

The last one, for example, implies that
xxxK-through-5C (C is clubs)
xxxx7D,6H,5S
is worse than
xxxK-through-7C,6H,5S
xxxx7D,6-through-5C
if you have a choice (last "column" has one suit break instead of two.)
And given
xxx5C
xxx4H
xxx5S
xxx9S
xxx8H
you should move the 4 to one of the 5's first, since at least
temporarily (until you deal more cards), it doesn't change the number
of columns with effective suit breaks - you can still access either
of the 5 columns if a 6 becomes available (do this even if a 6 is
available now!)

Chris
J. Clarke
2018-11-06 03:26:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-06 18:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?

We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-06 19:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
That original Nuclear Winter scenario has been discredited.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-06 20:07:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books.  The book picture for the John
Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list.  One is incredibly important
about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange.  _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
      https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout".  It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story.  By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions.  No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from?  What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat?  What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse?  And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem?  I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3".  It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people.  And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
I am not a gamer.  Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen.  The generally accepted hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades.  I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment.  Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
That original Nuclear Winter scenario has been discredited.
Got URL ?

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-06 22:10:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
That original Nuclear Winter scenario has been discredited.
Got URL ?
Sorry, no. Just a memory of a news report from years ago where members
of the team that ran the simulation admitted they were going for the
"worst case" scenario. Simulations run in the decades since haven't
painted quite as dire a picture. Still collapse of the current human
civilization but not an world wide Extinction Level Event.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-06 22:15:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 11/6/2018 4:10 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
...
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
That original Nuclear Winter scenario has been discredited.
Got URL ?
Sorry, no.  Just a memory of a news report from years ago where members
of the team that ran the simulation admitted they were going for the
"worst case" scenario.  Simulations run in the decades since haven't
painted quite as dire a picture.  Still collapse of the current human
civilization but not an world wide Extinction Level Event.
I saw one on the intertubes. But the author was as much a loon as
StarFaker.

https://debunkingdoomsday.quora.com/Debunked-Nuclear-Winter-and-Radioactive-Fallout-myths

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-11-07 02:14:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 14:07:15 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books.  The book picture for the John
Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list.  One is incredibly important
about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange.  _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
      https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout".  It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story.  By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions.  No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from?  What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat?  What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse?  And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem?  I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3".  It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people.  And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
I am not a gamer.  Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen.  The generally accepted hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades.  I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment.  Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
That original Nuclear Winter scenario has been discredited.
Got URL ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter tells the story of it,
with links. The prediction was that lighting 100 oil wells in Kuwait
would cause nuclear winter. 600 were lit, no nuclear winter.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-11-07 02:10:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 12:48:00 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted
By who other than the same loons who told us that burning oil wells in
Kuwait would cause a nuclear winter.
Post by Lynn McGuire
hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
Why would there be a large amount of ash? Nuclear weapons are not
chemical devices, they do not produce ash. And if it was from nuclear
weapons then why was nobody suffering from radiation effects?
Dimensional Traveler
2018-11-07 04:46:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 12:48:00 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted
By who other than the same loons who told us that burning oil wells in
Kuwait would cause a nuclear winter.
Post by Lynn McGuire
hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
Why would there be a large amount of ash? Nuclear weapons are not
chemical devices, they do not produce ash. And if it was from nuclear
weapons then why was nobody suffering from radiation effects?
Because a large part of the damage from a nuclear weapon is the thermal
pulse. Which incinerates things.

As for radiation, are you talking about 'The Road', 'Fallout' or
something else?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
J. Clarke
2018-11-07 12:17:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:46:40 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 12:48:00 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 23:59:59 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:20:50 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:46:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
I have read two of these, _Alas, Babylon_ and _A Canticle for
Leibowitz_, both excellent books. The book picture for the John Varley
short story is just wrong since that book is about a worldwide crude oil
apocalypse.
Two books are missing from the list. One is incredibly important about
surviving a nuclear bomb exchange. _The Road_ is a Pulitzer Prize
winning horrible look at the next generation survival and what it takes
for the current generation to make it so.
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Cormac-McCarthy/dp/0307387895/
"The Road" reads like a bad side quest in "Fallout". It is only
"good" to people who have no familiarity with science fiction and so
don't see the glaring holes in the story. By the end of it I wanted
something to _eat_ that miserable brat.
But then the Pulitzer winners tend to be about stupid people doing
stupid things for stupid reasons.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The other is a self published young adult series of a family who makes
it into a nuclear bomb shelter built by the military to house a couple
of battalions. No one else makes it.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Ash-Endless-Winter-Novel/dp/0988003023/
Lynn
Do you want to mention any of these glaring holes in the story ?
For openers, where's all the damned ash coming from? What do the
raiders live on (same question applies to Fallout, the term "raiders"
comes from there) when the can't find anybody to eat? What
catastrophe selectively killed every living organism except humans?
Why all the worry about water when there seems to be plenty of it? Why
does the kid act like he grew up in 20th century suburbia when he was
born after the apocalypse? And if they have to go south to get away
from the cold, why has it only just now become a problem? I could
come up with more I'd have to read it again and I have no desire to do
that.
Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I enjoyed the movie also.
The movie made more sense than the book, which isn't saying much.
If you like that sort of thing, buy a game called "Fallout 3". It's
_much_ better value.
The ash is dead people. And dead trees.
So why is it still falling years after the event?
Post by Lynn McGuire
I am not a gamer. Except Spider Solitaire, I am an addict.
Lynn
Because it is ash - a very lightweight material ?
We have yet to try a large exchange of nuclear weapons so we are not
quite sure what will really happen. The generally accepted
By who other than the same loons who told us that burning oil wells in
Kuwait would cause a nuclear winter.
Post by Lynn McGuire
hypothesis
is that a large amount of the ash will go into the stratosphere and
cause a "nuclear winter" as the ash falls back to earth over several
years, maybe decades. I for one, hope that we never try out the
experiment. Of course, many of our nuclear weapons in the USA are old
and deteriorated so they may not be effective anyway.
Why would there be a large amount of ash? Nuclear weapons are not
chemical devices, they do not produce ash. And if it was from nuclear
weapons then why was nobody suffering from radiation effects?
Because a large part of the damage from a nuclear weapon is the thermal
pulse. Which incinerates things.
If something is "incinerated" by "thermal pulse" then why would there
be a large amount of airborne ash?

Since you seem to be unfamiliar with the arguments concerning nuclear
winter, the theory is that nuclear weapons will create firestorms that
by purely conventional combustion somehow place huge amounts of ash in
the stratosphere. That neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki resulted in
firestorms even though Japanese construction at the time was more or
less ideal for their creation seems to have escaped the notice of the
nuclear winter advocates, and they don't seem to be able to produce
any evidence that the firestorms in WWII produced the expected effect.

Further, the nature of a firestorm is that the wind blows _into_ it so
it remains somewhat localized, it isn't going to burn every blade of
grass in the entire world.
Post by Dimensional Traveler
As for radiation, are you talking about 'The Road', 'Fallout' or
something else?
The Road.
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-01 18:13:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Of course, there is the five star young adult story about surviving a
nuclear war that was not a nuclear war, _Emergence_ by David R. Palmer:
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer-ebook/dp/B07F2SG4TG/

Lynn
D B Davis
2018-11-02 15:31:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Isn't _The Lathe of Heaven_ (le Guin) about a guy who briefly survives
a nuclear war by living in a fantasy created by his mind, an imaginary
place, which ignores harsh reality?



Thank you,
--
Don
Greg Goss
2018-11-07 08:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Isn't _The Lathe of Heaven_ (le Guin) about a guy who briefly survives
a nuclear war by living in a fantasy created by his mind, an imaginary
place, which ignores harsh reality?
That's one interpretation.

But since it was written in the seventies and the original "change"
let him survive the Cuban nuclear exchange in the early sixties, I
don't think it was the interpretation that the author was going for.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
D B Davis
2018-11-09 14:19:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Isn't _The Lathe of Heaven_ (le Guin) about a guy who briefly survives
a nuclear war by living in a fantasy created by his mind, an imaginary
place, which ignores harsh reality?
That's one interpretation.
But since it was written in the seventies and the original "change"
let him survive the Cuban nuclear exchange in the early sixties, I
don't think it was the interpretation that the author was going for.
Although a hypothetical Cuban nuclear exchange provides an interesting
opening to the story, le Guin doesn't specifically identify the Portland
catastrophe as a Cuban nuclear attack, or even as a nuclear attack. She
leaves all of those details up to the reader's imagination, which may
explain a large part of her story's charm. (Another part of its charm is
that it revolves around laying in a bed, sleeping, dreaming, and then
discussing dreams. What's not to like about those four activities?)
An excerpt of the start of the story is available at Slate. [1] The
story opens with a narrative about jellyfish, then it segues into the
Portland catastrophe for a brief period before George Orr has an
/effective/ dream that puts him two feet away from a door in a
balloonbed:

His eyelids had been burned away, so that he could not
close his eyes, and the light entered into his brain, searing.
He could not turn his head, for blocks of fallen concrete
pinned him down and the steel rods projecting from their cores
held his head in a vise. When these were gone he could move
again; he sat up. He was on the cement steps; a dandelion
flowered by his hand, growing from a little cracked place in
the steps. After a while he stood up, but as soon as he was on
his feet he felt deathly sick, and knew it was the radiation
sickness. The door was only two feet from him, for the
balloonbed when inflated half filled his room. He got to the
door and opened it and went through it. There stretched the
endless linoleum corridor, heaving slightly up and down for
miles, and far down it, very far, the men’s room. He started
out toward it, trying to hold on to the wall, but there was
nothing to hold on to, and the wall turned into the floor.

My interpretation of the story is that George Orr uses /effective/
dreams to suppress reality. Any old dream will do, anything, anything at
all, to take the place of the harsh reality of nuclear bomb
victimization. All the while it takes only the slightest lapse in Orr's
sheer willpower (which is itself suppressed out of necessity) to blow
the lid off of his reality suppression. Just one lapse and Orr will find
himself back with his eyelids burned away faster than Richard Collier
goes back to the future when a penny interrupts Collier's suspension of
disbelief in _Somewhere in Time_ (Matheson).
Immediately before its denouement, _The Lathe of Heaven_ hints that
reality is bearing down hard on Orr. Orr needs to immediately do
something to contain Haber before Orr finds himself back with his with
his eyelids burned away.
Anyhow, that's my take on it. The story's vague enough to
accommodate more than one interpretation.

Note.

1. http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/04/ursula_k_le_guin_s_the_lathe_of_heaven_an_excerpt_from_her_1971_classic.html



Thank you,
--
Don
Michael F. Stemper
2018-11-09 18:29:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Isn't _The Lathe of Heaven_ (le Guin) about a guy who briefly survives
a nuclear war by living in a fantasy created by his mind, an imaginary
place, which ignores harsh reality?
That's certainly not how I remember it.

As I recall it, the dreams of George Orr change reality to fit. His
psychiatrist/psychologist discovered this and manipulated Orr's dreams
in vain attempts to improve the world.

(Anybody who's read a significant amount of SF *knows* that trying to
change the world this way will always make it worse.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
D B Davis
2018-11-09 18:54:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by D B Davis
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
Isn't _The Lathe of Heaven_ (le Guin) about a guy who briefly survives
a nuclear war by living in a fantasy created by his mind, an imaginary
place, which ignores harsh reality?
That's certainly not how I remember it.
As I recall it, the dreams of George Orr change reality to fit. His
psychiatrist/psychologist discovered this and manipulated Orr's dreams
in vain attempts to improve the world.
At the most literal level, what you say is certainly true. To see the
deeper story you need keep a sharp eye out for hints peppered in the le
Guin's tale and read between the lines. Take this passage (where Orr
thinks out loud for the reader's benefit) for instance:

Perhaps what I did, what I did in April four years ago ... was
justified .... (But his thoughts shied away, as always, from
the burned place.)

You need to ask yourself, why do Orr's thoughts always shy away from
the event that occurred at the burned place? Is that where the story
opens with Orr's eyelids burned away? Why does Orr suppress memories of
that particular place and time?
Such open questions are subject to the reader's interpretation, of
course. That's why your ultimate take away will differ from my own.



Thank you,
--
Don
a425couple
2018-11-12 17:31:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?

"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
John Strawson (co-author) Early in 1977 a retired NATO
general called together six of his collegues--including
an admiral, an airman, an economist and a diplomat--to
write a dramatized game-plan for the next world war.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-War-August-1985/dp/0425101924

"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett portraying a fictional Third World War between NATO and
Warsaw Pact forces which breaks out in 1985, written in the style
of a non-fiction, post-event historical account. It was published
in 1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_World_War:_The_Untold_Story

"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984.[1] It is a fictional account of the authors
travelling across America five years after a limited nuclear attack
in order to assess how the nation has changed after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday

Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
Lynn McGuire
2018-11-12 19:15:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
John Strawson (co-author) Early in 1977 a retired NATO
general called together six of his collegues--including
an admiral, an airman, an economist and a diplomat--to
write a dramatized game-plan for the next world war.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-War-August-1985/dp/0425101924
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett portraying a fictional Third World War between NATO and
Warsaw Pact forces which breaks out in 1985, written in the style
of a non-fiction, post-event historical account. It was published
in 1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_World_War:_The_Untold_Story
"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984.[1] It is a fictional account of the authors
travelling across America five years after a limited nuclear attack
in order to assess how the nation has changed after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
Uh, _Warday_ is on the list.

Lynn
a425couple
2018-11-13 00:01:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
John Strawson (co-author) Early in 1977 a retired NATO
general called together six of his collegues--including
an admiral, an airman, an economist and a diplomat--to
write a dramatized game-plan for the next world war.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-War-August-1985/dp/0425101924
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett portraying a fictional Third World War between NATO and
Warsaw Pact forces which breaks out in 1985, written in the style
of a non-fiction, post-event historical account. It was published
in 1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_World_War:_The_Untold_Story
"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984.[1] It is a fictional account of the authors
travelling across America five years after a limited nuclear attack
in order to assess how the nation has changed after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
Uh, _Warday_ is on the list.
Lynn
Opps! Sorry.
At first I was going to ask about the General Hackett books,
which many think did indeed change some military and budget
policy. Then when I got around to looking at them, I saw
"Warday" on the shelf, and forgot it had been included.
David Johnston
2018-11-13 01:49:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
John Strawson (co-author) Early in 1977 a retired NATO
general called together six of his collegues--including
an admiral, an airman, an economist and a diplomat--to
write a dramatized game-plan for the next world war.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-War-August-1985/dp/0425101924
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett portraying a fictional Third World War between NATO and
Warsaw Pact forces which breaks out in 1985, written in the style
of a non-fiction, post-event historical account. It was published
in 1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_World_War:_The_Untold_Story
"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984.[1] It is a fictional account of the authors
travelling across America five years after a limited nuclear attack
in order to assess how the nation has changed after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
The first two were techno-thrillers, a genre with science fiction elements that is not normally shelved in that section.
a425couple
2018-11-15 04:23:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett ----
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
The first two were techno-thrillers, a genre with science fiction elements that is not normally shelved in that section.
Interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno-thriller
"A techno-thriller (also known as technothrillers) is a hybrid
genre drawing from science fiction, thrillers, spy fiction, action,
and war novels. They include a disproportionate amount (relative
to other genres) of technical details on their subject matter
(typically military technology); only hard science fiction tends
towards a comparable level of supporting detail on the technical
side. The inner workings of technology and the mechanics of
various disciplines (espionage, martial arts, politics) are
thoroughly explored, and the plot often turns on the particulars
of that exploration."
---
"Techno-thrillers focus strongly on details, especially on
the technology, which is frequently of military origin ---"

Thank you.
Robert Carnegie
2018-11-16 02:53:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by David Johnston
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett ----
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
The first two were techno-thrillers, a genre with science fiction elements that is not normally shelved in that section.
Interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno-thriller
"A techno-thriller (also known as technothrillers) is a hybrid
genre drawing from science fiction, thrillers, spy fiction, action,
and war novels. They include a disproportionate amount (relative
to other genres) of technical details on their subject matter
(typically military technology); only hard science fiction tends
towards a comparable level of supporting detail on the technical
side. The inner workings of technology and the mechanics of
various disciplines (espionage, martial arts, politics) are
thoroughly explored, and the plot often turns on the particulars
of that exploration."
---
"Techno-thrillers focus strongly on details, especially on
the technology, which is frequently of military origin ---"
Thank you.
I've seen non-genre commenters draw a boundary between
"science fiction" and something that could actually happen,
although that isn't my usage.

Obviously, nuclear war and mutual destruction could happen.
Now, for instance.
J. Clarke
2018-11-16 05:06:30 UTC
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 18:53:05 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a425couple
Post by David Johnston
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett ----
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
The first two were techno-thrillers, a genre with science fiction elements that is not normally shelved in that section.
Interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno-thriller
"A techno-thriller (also known as technothrillers) is a hybrid
genre drawing from science fiction, thrillers, spy fiction, action,
and war novels. They include a disproportionate amount (relative
to other genres) of technical details on their subject matter
(typically military technology); only hard science fiction tends
towards a comparable level of supporting detail on the technical
side. The inner workings of technology and the mechanics of
various disciplines (espionage, martial arts, politics) are
thoroughly explored, and the plot often turns on the particulars
of that exploration."
---
"Techno-thrillers focus strongly on details, especially on
the technology, which is frequently of military origin ---"
Thank you.
I've seen non-genre commenters draw a boundary between
"science fiction" and something that could actually happen,
although that isn't my usage.
Obviously, nuclear war and mutual destruction could happen.
Now, for instance.
And the US becoming a police state.

Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-11-14 18:42:01 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
John Strawson (co-author) Early in 1977 a retired NATO
general called together six of his collegues--including
an admiral, an airman, an economist and a diplomat--to
write a dramatized game-plan for the next world war.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-War-August-1985/dp/0425101924
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett portraying a fictional Third World War between NATO and
Warsaw Pact forces which breaks out in 1985, written in the style
of a non-fiction, post-event historical account. It was published
in 1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_World_War:_The_Untold_Story
"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984.[1] It is a fictional account of the authors
travelling across America five years after a limited nuclear attack
in order to assess how the nation has changed after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
1 _Warday_ is on the list

2 some of us found certain elements of Hackett's books to be... less
than credible. For unconnected reasons I happened to be in the officer's
mess at Up Park Camp (Jamaica Defence Force main base) when the first
book came out, and several of the junior officers had it open to the bit
where assorted communist African troops are doing naughty things under
the command of Jamaican officers. The actual Jamaican officers found it
to be quite funny. Apparently several of senior members of the, ah,
'democratic socialist' government of the time were less than loved by
the JDF. One particular gentleman once gave a certain junior officer,
one of the ones who found Hackett's book so amusing, an illegal order,
and when the officer declined to follow it, actually struck the officer,
in front of his platoon, and would have done so twice, except that as he
was winding up he heard the sound of a platoon's worth of SLRs being
cocked. The gentleman complained to more senior officers, who did
nothing. After that, illegal orders, such as those resulting in the
deaths of certain persons from the then Prime Minister's constituency at
the JDF firing range at Green Bay in the parish of St. Catherine, were
assigned to specific members of the JDF, who were in turn very unpopular
with everyone else and who left the JDF at great speed when Eddie Seaga
won the 1980 election. For those who complain about current elections,
the 1980 election in Jamaica resulted in nearly 1000 dead. This did not
count those who died at Green Bay.

In any case, much of the rest of the book was judged, rightly or
wrongly, on the basis of the bits that were _known_ to be highly
inaccurate.
a425couple
2018-11-15 04:19:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by a425couple
Post by James Nicoll
13 Stories About Surviving a Nuclear War--At Least Briefly
https://www.tor.com/2018/11/01/13-stories-about-surviving-a-nuclear-war-at-least-briefly/
So, does anyone want to explain in words to me,
why these three books I thought were good, are not on
the list?
"The Third World War: August 1985" by John W. Hackett,
"The Third World War: The Untold Story" is a novel by Sir John
Hackett
"Warday" is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka,
Is it because these books had a purpose in mind to change actions
and plans (executive, military, cabinet, legislative etc.),
rather than just entertain?
1 _Warday_ is on the list
2 some of us found certain elements of Hackett's books to be... less
than credible. For unconnected reasons I happened to be in the officer's
mess at Up Park Camp (Jamaica Defence Force main base) when the first
book came out, and several of the junior officers had it open to the bit
where assorted communist African troops are doing naughty things under
the command of Jamaican officers. The actual Jamaican officers found it
to be quite funny. Apparently several of senior members of the, ah,
'democratic socialist' government of the time were less than loved by
the JDF. One particular gentleman once gave a certain junior officer,
one of the ones who found Hackett's book so amusing, an illegal order,
and when the officer declined to follow it, actually struck the officer,
in front of his platoon, and would have done so twice, except that as he
was winding up he heard the sound of a platoon's worth of SLRs being
cocked. The gentleman complained to more senior officers, who did
nothing. After that, illegal orders, such as those resulting in the
deaths of certain persons from the then Prime Minister's constituency at
the JDF firing range at Green Bay in the parish of St. Catherine, were
assigned to specific members of the JDF, who were in turn very unpopular
with everyone else and who left the JDF at great speed when Eddie Seaga
won the 1980 election. For those who complain about current elections,
the 1980 election in Jamaica resulted in nearly 1000 dead. This did not
count those who died at Green Bay.
In any case, much of the rest of the book was judged, rightly or
wrongly, on the basis of the bits that were _known_ to be highly
inaccurate.
Interesting story. Thank you.
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