Song from _The Lord of the Rings_

[Michael F. Stemper]

In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?

<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

[Paul S Person]

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

Is she saying that her setting was used in one of the films, or is she
saying that it was done separately?

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

Is she saying that her setting was used in one of the films, or is she
saying that it was done separately?

She was establishing her fannish credentials:

[...] I began joining words to existing music when Poul and I
were living in Berkeley -- Kipling, Tolkien, and of course
Myers. I set a song from _Silverlock_ to one of Gordy's tunes,
and another from _The Lord of the Rings_ to "Greensleeves".
I'd sing them at convention parties -- see my enlarged version
of the afterword I did for the 1979 edition.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

Is she saying that her setting was used in one of the films, or is she
saying that it was done separately?

Probably the latter. Many people set lyrics from _LotR_ to music,
and wrote Lotr-related-filks, such as "The Nazgul King of Angmar"
(to "The Bastard King of England"), "High Fly the Nazgul" (to
"Green Grow the Rushes") and "The Ballad of Frodo Baggins" (to
"The Ballad of Jesse James"). Et multa cetera.

But I don't know of a _LotR_ filk set to "Greensleeves."

[[e-mail]]

Dorothy J Heydt
"The Ballad of Frodo Baggins"

And "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins":

[[e-mail]]

Ed Stasiak
http://youtu.be/V3fZhJN4Tdc

Rondellus "Verres Militares"

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

Is she saying that her setting was used in one of the films, or is she
saying that it was done separately?

Probably the latter. Many people set lyrics from _LotR_ to music,
and wrote Lotr-related-filks, such as "The Nazgul King of Angmar"
(to "The Bastard King of England"), "High Fly the Nazgul" (to
"Green Grow the Rushes") and "The Ballad of Frodo Baggins" (to
"The Ballad of Jesse James"). Et multa cetera.
But I don't know of a _LotR_ filk set to "Greensleeves."

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.

<http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_(song)>
doesn't quite fit but...

<http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/A_Elbereth_Gilthoniel>
- who knows. :-)

See also
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_on_I%27m_Sorry_I_Haven%27t_a_Clue#One_Song_to_the_Tune_of_Another>

[Andrew McDowell]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves". Anybody have an idea as
to which song that would be?
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?984301>

Is she saying that her setting was used in one of the films, or is she
saying that it was done separately?

Probably the latter. Many people set lyrics from _LotR_ to music,
and wrote Lotr-related-filks, such as "The Nazgul King of Angmar"
(to "The Bastard King of England"), "High Fly the Nazgul" (to
"Green Grow the Rushes") and "The Ballad of Frodo Baggins" (to
"The Ballad of Jesse James"). Et multa cetera.
But I don't know of a _LotR_ filk set to "Greensleeves."

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.
<http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_(song)>
doesn't quite fit but...
<http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/A_Elbereth_Gilthoniel>
- who knows. :-)
See also
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_on_I%27m_Sorry_I_Haven%27t_a_Clue#One_Song_to_the_Tune_of_Another>

To be reasonably singable, the metre must match. I am no expert on this, but as far as I can work out - mostly from websearches - A Elbereth Gilthoniel does match. The Road Goes Ever On might match, but it is not the only possible match, as Greensleeves uses a reasonably common metre.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves".

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.

Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:47:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves".

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.

Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

Yet, given some of the filk songs mentioned earlier, it appears that a
distinction may exist between "text from LOTR" and "song from LOTR".

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:47:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves".

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.

Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

Yet, given some of the filk songs mentioned earlier, it appears that a
distinction may exist between "text from LOTR" and "song from LOTR".

Wikipedia sums up _Silverlock_ (John Myers Myers, 1949):
"While on a sea voyage, a ship named Naglfar [oh dear]
founders. One anhedonic passenger, A. Clarence Shandon
(M.B.A., Wisconsin), is washed ashore in a fictional land
known as "The Commonwealth of Letters". He is befriended
by Golias, who nicknames him 'Silverlock' and who becomes
his guide. Silverlock and Golias encounter figures from
history, literature and mythology."

Google Books dates the supplemented edition to 2004.
I persuaded Google to reveal, as we know, that Karen Anderson
set a song from LOTR to "Greensleeves", also set a song from
_Silverlock_ to a tune by Gordon R. Dickson, and
"I'd sing them at convention parties - see my enlarged
version of the afterword I did for the 1979 edition."
That seems, via ISFDB, to refer to page 491 etc. of the
2004 _Silverlock_, "The Songs of Silverlock", which per
Google, doesn't mention "Tolkien" or "Greensleeves".
"Convention" appears on pages 14 as above, 483,
and 491. Have a look, Michael. If someone's got the
1979 edition, it may say more, but it's a long shot.
Google isn't giving me access to that.

"Greenfleeves" is the one that goef like thif. :-)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensleeves>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s>

It may have been heard a lot with other lyrics
in those circles, like the memorable incident here.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeeves_and_the_Song_of_Songs>
"The crowd did not react well."

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:53:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:47:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:59:42 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
In her 2003 introduction to _Silverlock_, Karen Anderson
says that she had set a song from _The Lord of the Rings_
to the melody of "Greensleeves".

I think we'd be looking for a song written by Tolkien.

Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

Yet, given some of the filk songs mentioned earlier, it appears that a
distinction may exist between "text from LOTR" and "song from LOTR".

"While on a sea voyage, a ship named Naglfar [oh dear]
founders. One anhedonic passenger, A. Clarence Shandon
(M.B.A., Wisconsin), is washed ashore in a fictional land
known as "The Commonwealth of Letters". He is befriended
by Golias, who nicknames him 'Silverlock' and who becomes
his guide. Silverlock and Golias encounter figures from
history, literature and mythology."
Google Books dates the supplemented edition to 2004.
I persuaded Google to reveal, as we know, that Karen Anderson
set a song from LOTR to "Greensleeves", also set a song from
_Silverlock_ to a tune by Gordon R. Dickson, and
"I'd sing them at convention parties - see my enlarged
version of the afterword I did for the 1979 edition."
That seems, via ISFDB, to refer to page 491 etc. of the
2004 _Silverlock_, "The Songs of Silverlock", which per
Google, doesn't mention "Tolkien" or "Greensleeves".
"Convention" appears on pages 14 as above, 483,
and 491. Have a look, Michael. If someone's got the
1979 edition, it may say more, but it's a long shot.
Google isn't giving me access to that.
"Greenfleeves" is the one that goef like thif. :-)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensleeves>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s>
It may have been heard a lot with other lyrics
in those circles, like the memorable incident here.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeeves_and_the_Song_of_Songs>
"The crowd did not react well."

I honestly have /no/ idea what you are going on about.

But, if the topic is "Greensleeves", Flanders & Swann (Album /At The
Drop Of A Hat/, cleverly named "Greensleeves") did a bit about how it
came to be published ... and who wrote it.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:47:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

Yet, given some of the filk songs mentioned earlier, it appears that a
distinction may exist between "text from LOTR" and "song from LOTR".

"While on a sea voyage, a ship named Naglfar [oh dear]
founders. One anhedonic passenger, A. Clarence Shandon
(M.B.A., Wisconsin),

Not necessarily. When he introduces himself to Golias, he says:
"Somewhere under the old hats, dry flies, and dead tennis balls
on the top shelf of a certain closet in Chicago you'll find a
sheepskin swearing that the U. of Wisconsin gave me a degree
in Business Administration."

No statement that it's a Master's or a Baccalaureate or even a
Doctorate. It could be any one of these. However in the same
introduction penned by Karen Anderson, she states:
[...] and his idea of education is his B.A. in Business
Administration.

I have no idea if she has any justification for calling it a
Bachelor's degree.

Post by Robert Carnegie
Google Books dates the supplemented edition to 2004.

Yup, published by NESFA Press:
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?154290>
That's the one that I have on ILL from Madison Public Library.

Post by Robert Carnegie
I persuaded Google to reveal, as we know, that Karen Anderson
set a song from LOTR to "Greensleeves", also set a song from
_Silverlock_ to a tune by Gordon R. Dickson, and
"I'd sing them at convention parties - see my enlarged
version of the afterword I did for the 1979 edition."
That seems, via ISFDB, to refer to page 491 etc. of the
2004 _Silverlock_, "The Songs of Silverlock", which per
Google, doesn't mention "Tolkien" or "Greensleeves". > "Convention" appears on pages 14 as above, 483,
and 491. Have a look, Michael. If someone's got the
1979 edition, it may say more, but it's a long shot.

Thanks for the pointer. Page 491 is the first page of another
essay by K.A., entitled "The Songs of _Silverlock_". Following
it is a section entitled "Sheet Music". It has musical settings
for, of all things, songs from _Silverlock_.

Post by Robert Carnegie
"Greenfleeves" is the one that goef like thif. :-)

I'm actually familiar with the melody, although I was probably in
my thirties before I knew it as anything other than a Christmas
carol.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:47:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
Yes. "[...] a song from _The Lord of the Rings_".

Yet, given some of the filk songs mentioned earlier, it appears that a
distinction may exist between "text from LOTR" and "song from LOTR".

"While on a sea voyage, a ship named Naglfar [oh dear]
founders. One anhedonic passenger, A. Clarence Shandon
(M.B.A., Wisconsin),

"Somewhere under the old hats, dry flies, and dead tennis balls
on the top shelf of a certain closet in Chicago you'll find a
sheepskin swearing that the U. of Wisconsin gave me a degree
in Business Administration."
No statement that it's a Master's or a Baccalaureate or even a
Doctorate. It could be any one of these. However in the same
[...] and his idea of education is his B.A. in Business
Administration.
I have no idea if she has any justification for calling it a
Bachelor's degree.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia> may be a pointer
to one of these. Or the use of sheepskin, but here it may only
mean "fancy paper", not actual parchment which is... you know.
(Well, you know now.)

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie
Google Books dates the supplemented edition to 2004.

<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?154290>
That's the one that I have on ILL from Madison Public Library.

Post by Robert Carnegie
I persuaded Google to reveal, as we know, that Karen Anderson
set a song from LOTR to "Greensleeves", also set a song from
_Silverlock_ to a tune by Gordon R. Dickson, and
"I'd sing them at convention parties - see my enlarged
version of the afterword I did for the 1979 edition."
That seems, via ISFDB, to refer to page 491 etc. of the
2004 _Silverlock_, "The Songs of Silverlock", which per
Google, doesn't mention "Tolkien" or "Greensleeves".
"Convention" appears on pages 14 as above, 483,
and 491. Have a look, Michael. If someone's got the
1979 edition, it may say more, but it's a long shot.

Thanks for the pointer. Page 491 is the first page of another
essay by K.A., entitled "The Songs of _Silverlock_". Following
it is a section entitled "Sheet Music". It has musical settings
for, of all things, songs from _Silverlock_.

I suspected the piece doesn't say much more than
"I sang these at parties", but you have or had the thing
in print, and I don't.

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Carnegie
"Greenfleeves" is the one that goef like thif. :-)

I'm actually familiar with the melody, although I was probably in
my thirties before I knew it as anything other than a Christmas
carol.

Yes, so you could be thinking "Why are they singing
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Child_Is_This%3F>"

"Greensleeves, the melody, is attributed to Mozart." What?!
In _Christmas Carols Old and New_ (1871), perhaps.
Maybe he actually did have his sticky fingers on it, given:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Variations_on_"Ah_vous_dirai-je,_Maman">
("Baa Baa Black Sheep, Little Star").

Anyway, I mean that if you heard that tune amongst sff fandom
or with the SCA, more than one person may have used it
with different words.