Discussion:
OT: Very late midlife crisis, SF fanboy style. Lynn might like this.
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Peter Trei
2019-11-23 21:17:22 UTC
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Permalink
I've put down a deposit on a pickup:

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)

It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.


[Pause while you admire)







Now, the in-real-life caveats:

1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).

At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-23 23:35:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.

I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
Loading Image...

No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
Loading Image...

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-11-24 01:31:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-garage.jpg
I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
to at least four different markets:

(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.

The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).

Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.

Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.

Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.

The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.

Market 3 is a crapshoot.

I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.

Note that I'm seeing people claiming that the Rivian is a better fit
for the market--it isn't. It looks more conventional, but it has a
_tiny_ bed--it's competing more with a Jeep Gladiator than an F-150.

Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)

I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-24 01:34:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-garage.jpg
I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.
The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).
Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.
Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.
Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.
The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.
Market 3 is a crapshoot.
I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.
Note that I'm seeing people claiming that the Rivian is a better fit
for the market--it isn't. It looks more conventional, but it has a
_tiny_ bed--it's competing more with a Jeep Gladiator than an F-150.
Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)
I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.
When I first saw the Tesla Truck, I thought of the movie "Damnation Alley":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-11-24 01:56:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-garage.jpg
I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.
The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).
Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.
Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.
Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.
The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.
Market 3 is a crapshoot.
I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.
Note that I'm seeing people claiming that the Rivian is a better fit
for the market--it isn't. It looks more conventional, but it has a
_tiny_ bed--it's competing more with a Jeep Gladiator than an F-150.
Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)
I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)
Flashing on a scene for a remake of "Damnation Alley". Tanner is
repairing something on the Landmaster. He's using a Tesla Truck as a
service ramp.

You know--I could stand to see a remake of that movie. I really liked
the story when it appeared in Galaxy, and found the movie
disappointing.
Jerry Brown
2019-11-24 07:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Lynn McGuire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)
Reminds me more of Robert Preston's car from The Last Starfighter.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-24 19:23:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snip>
Post by Lynn McGuire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)
Reminds me more of Robert Preston's car from The Last Starfighter.
Kinda. Not really though.

https://starcarcentral.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/the-last-starfighter-star-car-where-is-it-now-hello-mcfly/

Lynn
Peter Trei
2019-11-24 04:58:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-garage.jpg
I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.
The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).
Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.
Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.
Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.
The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.
Market 3 is a crapshoot.
I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.
We'll see. So far, Tesla is claiming 146k reservations in the first 36 hours
after they opened.

Depends what you want the truck for.

I'm definitely in category 3 or 4. I used to drive a GMC Suburban, and loved
having a ton of space and passenger capacity, but didn't like the 15 mpg,
especially when I had a 75 mile roundtrip commute. We recently got rid of
our other large vehicle, and I'm without much cargo or people capacity in
my cars at the moment.

In the category 3 market, this is much more 'urban spaceman' than 'urban
cowboy'. I enjoy the thought of pulling up to an SF con in this thing.

[...]
Post by J. Clarke
Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)
Agreed. We'll have to see in the future what the real comparison is like.
Post by J. Clarke
I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.
Not for you, perhaps. Maybe for me.

pt
Peter Trei
2019-11-24 04:42:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
It's not a mockup - people have been riding in it, including the automotive
press. Example:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-photos-info
Post by Lynn McGuire
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
Nice!

pt
p***@hotmail.com
2019-11-24 05:24:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.

The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
lower drag:

https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/

Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
J. Clarke
2019-11-24 05:35:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-24 05:57:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".

Lynn
Peter Trei
2019-11-24 19:49:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.

First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.

The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.

But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-24 20:16:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.
pt
All of those specifications are subject to change before the vehicle
goes into production.

My cousin's experience with his Tesla 3 is very good. Only one problem
in 17,000 miles and it was just a trim problem. And his 310 mile
battery dual motor car is amazing. But I do not like the missing gauges
and controls since everything goes through the middle mounted computer
touchscreen.

The vehicle would have to have a sterling reputation like the F-150 does
in order for me to purchase one. I paid $40K for my F-150 4x4 with 600+
mile range, I assume that I would want the dual motor AWD Tesla truck
with the big battery which is going to be $50K. Plus more battery if
available. But there is no gasoline cost so that offsets some of the
initial cost.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-11-24 23:38:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .

About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.

About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.

There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.

Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.

Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.

However this also points out another issue--pickup truck beds have
somewhat standardized dimensions for a reason--there is an ecosystem
of truck accessories that fit those beds. If Tesla is changing their
dimensions from that standard then none of those accessories fit.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.
pt
All of those specifications are subject to change before the vehicle
goes into production.
My cousin's experience with his Tesla 3 is very good. Only one problem
in 17,000 miles and it was just a trim problem. And his 310 mile
battery dual motor car is amazing. But I do not like the missing gauges
and controls since everything goes through the middle mounted computer
touchscreen.
The vehicle would have to have a sterling reputation like the F-150 does
in order for me to purchase one. I paid $40K for my F-150 4x4 with 600+
mile range, I assume that I would want the dual motor AWD Tesla truck
with the big battery which is going to be $50K. Plus more battery if
available. But there is no gasoline cost so that offsets some of the
initial cost.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
Lynn
Chrysi Cat
2019-11-25 02:18:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I'll grant all the rest, buuuut:

On 11/24/2019 4:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.
While it's true that right now, lift kits are the way to go with
hard-core off-roading, a lift kit is permanent. You pretty much then
need a tow vehicle to _get_ your truck to the trail legally; it's almost
better unless you need a closed cab for some reason to run a couple of
quadbikes instead.

Not that I expect anyone actually _will_ use a _Tesla_ that way due to
their price, but adjustable suspensions make a great deal more sense
than ripping the axles off and reattaching them with 7 inches of metal
and ridiculously-powerful gas struts intervening between the rest of the
undercarriage and their new position.

Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
J. Clarke
2019-11-25 02:50:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.
While it's true that right now, lift kits are the way to go with
hard-core off-roading, a lift kit is permanent. You pretty much then
need a tow vehicle to _get_ your truck to the trail legally; it's almost
better unless you need a closed cab for some reason to run a couple of
quadbikes instead.
That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.

And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.
Post by Jerry Brown
Not that I expect anyone actually _will_ use a _Tesla_ that way due to
their price, but adjustable suspensions make a great deal more sense
than ripping the axles off and reattaching them with 7 inches of metal
and ridiculously-powerful gas struts intervening between the rest of the
undercarriage and their new position.
As for "ripping", actually it's unfastening a few bolts, changing out
a few parts, and refastening those bolts.
Post by Jerry Brown
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.
I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.
r***@rosettacondot.com
2019-11-25 17:26:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.
While it's true that right now, lift kits are the way to go with
hard-core off-roading, a lift kit is permanent. You pretty much then
need a tow vehicle to _get_ your truck to the trail legally; it's almost
better unless you need a closed cab for some reason to run a couple of
quadbikes instead.
That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.
And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.
This was the first time I realized there were laws governing this (although
I'm entirely unsurprised that California is in the list of states that has
them).
I've passed (and been passed by) trucks in Texas that I could see under.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-25 20:57:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 11/24/2019 8:50 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
...
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Chrysi Cat
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.
I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.
I have seen several lifted trucks being towed over the years. They tend
to break universal joints fairly often. Of course, if you break the
back universal joint you can drive on the front wheel drive for a while
after you remove the rear driveshaft (makes a heck of a racket just
flopping around back there).

Lynn
BCFD36
2019-11-26 18:18:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.
While it's true that right now, lift kits are the way to go with
hard-core off-roading, a lift kit is permanent. You pretty much then
need a tow vehicle to _get_ your truck to the trail legally; it's almost
better unless you need a closed cab for some reason to run a couple of
quadbikes instead.
That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.
And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.
Post by Jerry Brown
Not that I expect anyone actually _will_ use a _Tesla_ that way due to
their price, but adjustable suspensions make a great deal more sense
than ripping the axles off and reattaching them with 7 inches of metal
and ridiculously-powerful gas struts intervening between the rest of the
undercarriage and their new position.
As for "ripping", actually it's unfastening a few bolts, changing out
a few parts, and refastening those bolts.
Post by Jerry Brown
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.
I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.
I have seen several of them on the road, on their side. When I was on
the FD, when we would see a ridiculously lifted truck, someone would
invariably say, "We will run a call on that one in about two weeks". And
often we would.
--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions
David DeLaney
2019-12-03 07:09:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BCFD36
I have seen several of them on the road, on their side. When I was on
the FD, when we would see a ridiculously lifted truck, someone would
invariably say, "We will run a call on that one in about two weeks". And
often we would.
And while some people do need extra room for whatever offroad _work_ they're
doing, a big chunk of them are just advertisements about their owner's penis
size.

Dave, midwife crisis
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Lynn McGuire
2019-12-03 18:42:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by BCFD36
I have seen several of them on the road, on their side. When I was on
the FD, when we would see a ridiculously lifted truck, someone would
invariably say, "We will run a call on that one in about two weeks". And
often we would.
And while some people do need extra room for whatever offroad _work_ they're
doing, a big chunk of them are just advertisements about their owner's penis
size.
Dave, midwife crisis
I used my 4x4 F-150 yesterday to smooth out the 1/4 acre that the feral
pigs tore up last week so the mower does not toss a blade belt. Again.

I really need one of those water filled rollers to fix the feral pig
damage. Too expensive though. The five ton model that I can tow with
my 4x4 F-150 is about $10,000. The two ton model is much cheaper and
reputedly does not work very well.

Lynn

Peter Trei
2019-11-25 04:45:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.

Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike? At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate. No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.

pt
Peter Trei
2019-11-25 04:48:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike? At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate. No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
pt
Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.

pt
J. Clarke
2019-11-25 05:16:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:48:48 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike? At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate. No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
pt
Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.
A good point. However they should give the actual bed dimensions and
they don't.
Alan Baker
2019-11-25 21:12:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:48:48 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike? At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate. No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
pt
Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.
A good point. However they should give the actual bed dimensions and
they don't.
Actually, they do list the length of the bed... ...although they call it
the "vault": 6.5 feet.
J. Clarke
2019-11-25 05:15:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all.
Motor Trend doesn't say anything about "wheelhouses" so it is not
clear what you are on about.
Post by Peter Trei
Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area.
Now let's see, they state that the Cybertruck is 78.8 inches wide, so
the wheels would have to be less than 1.9 inches wide for your
assertion to be true. The article you link contains "75" in two
places, once referring to _height_ and the other followed by a "0" to
give "750 HP".

Sorry, the Motor Trend numbers seem far more likely.
Post by Peter Trei
100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
So they're measuring one way and Ford's measuring another and so
they're falsely making their "truck" look good.
Post by Peter Trei
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Yes, we've all seen those, they're on the Tesla web site you know.
They do not give dimensions.
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike?
It's a commonplace 650. Any Suzuki 250 or larger won't fit. Same for
Kawasaki. Or just about any street bike.
Post by Peter Trei
At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate.
Yeah, they designed something to fit and so it fits.
Post by Peter Trei
No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.
Peter Trei
2019-11-25 17:51:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all.
Motor Trend doesn't say anything about "wheelhouses" so it is not
clear what you are on about.
Post by Peter Trei
Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area.
Now let's see, they state that the Cybertruck is 78.8 inches wide, so
the wheels would have to be less than 1.9 inches wide for your
assertion to be true. The article you link contains "75" in two
places, once referring to _height_ and the other followed by a "0" to
give "750 HP".
Sorry, the Motor Trend numbers seem far more likely.
Post by Peter Trei
100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
So they're measuring one way and Ford's measuring another and so
they're falsely making their "truck" look good.
Fair enough. Tesla may not advertise, but marketeers can mislead. Note that the
claimed box capacity on a 6.5 foot F150 is 62.3 cu ft.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Yes, we've all seen those, they're on the Tesla web site you know.
They do not give dimensions.
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike?
It's a commonplace 650. Any Suzuki 250 or larger won't fit. Same for
Kawasaki. Or just about any street bike.
Post by Peter Trei
At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate.
Yeah, they designed something to fit and so it fits.
Post by Peter Trei
No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.
8 foot is readily available, yes. Yet the overwhelming choice is for shorter.
In fact, 6.5 feet is by far the most popular. I guess its not useful if you
have to move 4x8 foot sheets all the time, or tote a big MB, but its
more parkable, and sells very well. Not having an 8 foot option isn't a deal
killer for most buyers.

I haven't found a statement of the Tesla bed's internal width, but judging
from photos, the sidewalls aren't more than 4 inches thick. This suggests
an internal width 65-70 inches.

The F150 specs don't even mention the total width, just the width between
wheelhouses: 50.6 inches. That's the widest thing you can lay flat on the
bottom.

The Tesla's bed has no wheelhouses intruding into the bed, so its max width
is a lot more.

pt
Scott Lurndal
2019-11-25 17:57:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.
8 foot is readily available, yes. Yet the overwhelming choice is for shorter.
In fact, 6.5 feet is by far the most popular. I guess its not useful if you
have to move 4x8 foot sheets all the time,
Actually, they work quite well for transporting 4x8 sheets of plywood. With
the tailgate down, they only extend out another 12 inches. Most bedliners
have notches on the side level with the wheelwell top for two-by-fours used
to provide a level bed for sheetgoods.
J. Clarke
2019-11-25 18:22:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:51:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
Not seeing Peter's post but . . .
About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.
About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.
There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.
The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all.
Motor Trend doesn't say anything about "wheelhouses" so it is not
clear what you are on about.
Post by Peter Trei
Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area.
Now let's see, they state that the Cybertruck is 78.8 inches wide, so
the wheels would have to be less than 1.9 inches wide for your
assertion to be true. The article you link contains "75" in two
places, once referring to _height_ and the other followed by a "0" to
give "750 HP".
Sorry, the Motor Trend numbers seem far more likely.
Post by Peter Trei
100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
So they're measuring one way and Ford's measuring another and so
they're falsely making their "truck" look good.
Fair enough. Tesla may not advertise, but marketeers can mislead. Note that the
claimed box capacity on a 6.5 foot F150 is 62.3 cu ft.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Peter Trei
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/
Yes, we've all seen those, they're on the Tesla web site you know.
They do not give dimensions.
Post by Peter Trei
Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.
How big is your bike?
It's a commonplace 650. Any Suzuki 250 or larger won't fit. Same for
Kawasaki. Or just about any street bike.
Post by Peter Trei
At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate.
Yeah, they designed something to fit and so it fits.
Post by Peter Trei
No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.
The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.
8 foot is readily available, yes. Yet the overwhelming choice is for shorter.
In fact, 6.5 feet is by far the most popular. I guess its not useful if you
have to move 4x8 foot sheets all the time, or tote a big MB, but its
more parkable, and sells very well. Not having an 8 foot option isn't a deal
killer for most buyers.
One of the major markets for "trucks" today is a replacement for the
large luxury sedan. The Tesla fills that niche fairly well. I can
get an F-150 or -250 or -350 or -450 with the two-seat cab and 8 foot
bed that is actually shorter than the crew cab with the 6.5 foot bed,
so your "more parkable" argument is not quite the whole story.
Post by Peter Trei
I haven't found a statement of the Tesla bed's internal width, but judging
from photos, the sidewalls aren't more than 4 inches thick. This suggests
an internal width 65-70 inches.
So where do the wheels fit? They have to go somewhere. Motor Trend
says 57 inches. They saw the thing in September when five of their
people were invited to the Tesla plant and got a ride in a prototype.
They aren't just working from what is shown on a web site. I'll take
their number over estimates based on pictures on web sites until
something official comes along.

And a nonstandard width is only "better" if you aren't planning on
using any commercial accessories in that bed.
Post by Peter Trei
The F150 specs don't even mention the total width, just the width between
wheelhouses: 50.6 inches. That's the widest thing you can lay flat on the
bottom.
But it's not the limiting volume when filling with, say, gravel.
Post by Peter Trei
The Tesla's bed has no wheelhouses intruding into the bed, so its max width
is a lot more.
But is it a meaningful lot more? I don't know of anything 57 inches
wide that I want to load.

However, if that was a serious issue for me, I have options with any
real truck that are not available with the Tesla.

Look, the bottom line on this was that if Tesla had had an actual
truck that worked like a truck and was sold like a truck I would have
plopped down a deposit immediately, but what they have is a sedan
substitute. I already have a sedan substitute and it's starting to
get limiting.
David DeLaney
2019-12-03 07:12:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
But is it a meaningful lot more? I don't know of anything 57 inches
wide that I want to load.
ObGradeSchoolRecess: Is this where I insert the remark about "YER MOM!"?

Dave, throw momma from the truck, a kiss, a kiss
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-25 03:11:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.
pt
My F-150 4x4 truck has about a foot of ground clearance with skid plates
protecting the transmission, engine, transfer case, and gas tank. It is
called the FX4 package. And a locking rear axle controlled from the cab
(very handy for max slippage situations).

I towed a 5,000 lb trailer three times so far this year with my now dead
Expedition. About 100 miles each time. I will be towing the trailer
again in a couple of weeks. My F-150 is rated to tow up to a 13,000 lb
trailer so it is way overkill. I like overkill when towing a trailer
that only weighs 1,000 lbs less than my truck.

I drove home in February from Oklahoma with three inches of ice and snow
on my Expedition. The ice was on all the bridges for about 50 miles
(500 mile trip each way). My Expedition had limited slip which works
great on ice unless you go crazy.

Lynn
Gene Wirchenko
2019-11-26 06:44:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 21:11:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Lynn McGuire
I drove home in February from Oklahoma with three inches of ice and snow
on my Expedition. The ice was on all the bridges for about 50 miles
(500 mile trip each way). My Expedition had limited slip which works
great on ice unless you go crazy.
Warranty Claim:

"... and I was doing great until that last bridge."

"Sir, you must have gone crazy."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-26 20:01:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 21:11:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
[snip]
Post by Lynn McGuire
I drove home in February from Oklahoma with three inches of ice and snow
on my Expedition. The ice was on all the bridges for about 50 miles
(500 mile trip each way). My Expedition had limited slip which works
great on ice unless you go crazy.
"... and I was doing great until that last bridge."
"Sir, you must have gone crazy."
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Exactly.

Lynn
r***@rosettacondot.com
2019-11-25 17:20:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
This is going to be the biggest problem for me. Even the low-end is too
expensive to be a second truck. Our most common "out-of-the area" need for a
truck is to pull a trailer to some land we own that's about 250 miles away.
At the moment the closest supercharger along our route is about 240 miles
from the property. Assuming Tesla builds out their network as planned, we'll
have one at about 120 miles in the next year or two, so that's better.
Hauling a generator and fuel so that we can recharge the truck just seems
counterproductive.
Hopefully the day will come when they start putting superchargers in small
rural towns...that would change things enormously.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
Peter Trei
2019-11-25 18:14:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.
People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.
My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".
Lynn
You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
This is going to be the biggest problem for me. Even the low-end is too
expensive to be a second truck. Our most common "out-of-the area" need for a
truck is to pull a trailer to some land we own that's about 250 miles away.
At the moment the closest supercharger along our route is about 240 miles
from the property. Assuming Tesla builds out their network as planned, we'll
have one at about 120 miles in the next year or two, so that's better.
Hauling a generator and fuel so that we can recharge the truck just seems
counterproductive.
Hopefully the day will come when they start putting superchargers in small
rural towns...that would change things enormously.
I'd certainly like to see a wider distribution of superchargers, but they
aren't the only game in town. Tesla recently released a ChaDemO adapter, which
increases the number of high speed chargers I could use.

IRL, a lot of people (like me) use them only when on long trips. Day to day
use is more than catered for by the Level 2 charger in my driveway.

L2 adds 30-45 miles of range per hour. I just plug it in, and in the morning
I have a full 'tank'.

There are a lot of public use ones out there as well, some free, some cost
money (still cheaper than gas). Check PlugShare.com to see what's near your
site.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-25 20:53:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
I asked the wife if I could buy the Tesla truck when they come out in
2021 or 2024. She said sure, when my new truck is 10 years old. So,
that is 2029.

BTW, she made me drive my 2005 Expedition until I limped home on four
cylinders when it broke a timing chain at 209,546 miles in October (it
has two timing chains, one still works). I thought that I got credit
for selling my motorcycles back when but I guess not.

I won’t be putting my $100 deposit down.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-25 21:05:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Absolutely smashing: Musk shows off Tesla's 'bulletproof' low-poly
pickup, hilarity ensues"
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/22/smashing_tesla_cybertruck/

"The "pressurised version" of the Cybertruck is also supposedly the
"official truck of Mars". So let's hope they sort those windows out. ®"

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-26 19:55:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend

"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."

Lynn
Peter Trei
2019-11-26 22:59:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Musk doesn't expect everyone to like it. That's fine.

It's only $100, and is refundable. The most I've got to lose, short of Tesla going bankrupt, is a few dollars of forgone interest.

But it locks in the price. That includes the price for the 'Full Self Driving" option, which is roughly Level 3 at the moment, but improving.

Pt
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-11-27 07:28:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.

I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
of a ute was last night. It went something like this:
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."

And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."

At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Peter Trei
2019-11-27 14:05:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.

I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.

Pt
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-27 18:59:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.

I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.

Lynn
Alan Baker
2019-11-27 19:42:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
     come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier.  Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display?  That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck !  Still looks like vaporware to me.  Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
Yeah... ...but I bet you thought that Teslas in general were vaporware...
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
J. Clarke
2019-11-27 20:00:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?

Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-27 20:42:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-11-27 20:57:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-27 21:09:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.

And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-11-27 22:34:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-28 01:40:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.

Lynn
Paul S Person
2019-11-28 17:47:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:40:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.
Yes, but would they survive turning it on?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-29 08:49:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:40:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.
Yes, but would they survive turning it on?
Back when I was an electrician in a power plant in 1982, we had a fire
and burned up the auxiliary transformer. We hooked up a 480 volt, 3
phase line between two units, capable of over 200 amps. Live to the
operating unit since we did not have a spare breaker.

Bear donned the ritual leather garb, a leather apron protecting his
manly parts, leather gloves extending up to his armpits, and a face
shield. My job was to tie a rope around Bear and pull him away from the
electrical parts while he was bolting the cables to the breaker bus if
he managed to become electrified. He did not.

Lynn
William Hyde
2019-11-29 20:34:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:40:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.
Yes, but would they survive turning it on?
Back when I was an electrician in a power plant in 1982, we had a fire
and burned up the auxiliary transformer. We hooked up a 480 volt, 3
phase line between two units, capable of over 200 amps. Live to the
operating unit since we did not have a spare breaker.
Bear donned the ritual leather garb, a leather apron protecting his
manly parts, leather gloves extending up to his armpits, and a face
shield. My job was to tie a rope around Bear and pull him away from the
electrical parts while he was bolting the cables to the breaker bus if
he managed to become electrified. He did not.
Lynn
I know there are a lot of people called Bear.

I know there are a lot of Texans called Bear.

I know there are a lot of Texan engineers called Bear.

I know there were a lot of engineers working in Texas in 1982 called Bear.

But still I have to ask: was this Burl Tanner?

William Hyde
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-29 22:50:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:40:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.
Yes, but would they survive turning it on?
Back when I was an electrician in a power plant in 1982, we had a fire
and burned up the auxiliary transformer. We hooked up a 480 volt, 3
phase line between two units, capable of over 200 amps. Live to the
operating unit since we did not have a spare breaker.
Bear donned the ritual leather garb, a leather apron protecting his
manly parts, leather gloves extending up to his armpits, and a face
shield. My job was to tie a rope around Bear and pull him away from the
electrical parts while he was bolting the cables to the breaker bus if
he managed to become electrified. He did not.
Lynn
I know there are a lot of people called Bear.
I know there are a lot of Texans called Bear.
I know there are a lot of Texan engineers called Bear.
I know there were a lot of engineers working in Texas in 1982 called Bear.
But still I have to ask: was this Burl Tanner?
William Hyde
His real name was Barry. He was 6 ft tall and weighed about 350 lbs.
He lived in a single wide in Colorado City with his sister and his
mother. We called him Bear cause he looked like one and was grumpy like
one. He liked the name.

Lynn
William Hyde
2019-11-30 22:02:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by William Hyde
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:40:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:09:56 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:42:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he’s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks … that
may or may not ship a year from now. That’s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
10 gallons diesel * 30% efficiency * 139,000 btu/gallon diesel *
kwh/3412 btu = 122 kwh
That's roughly 2 full charges for a model 3, depending on which
battery it has.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Yup. 500 lb trailer, 300 lb generator, and 60 lb (10 gallons) of
diesel, and Bob's your uncle.
And safety interlocks are easy to disable. Back when I was a genuine
plant engineer, we did it all the time. Especially on a cold start.
Is it easy when the interlock is firmware in a proprietary controller?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
I've known too many redneck electricians. They could jumper it somehow.
Yes, but would they survive turning it on?
Back when I was an electrician in a power plant in 1982, we had a fire
and burned up the auxiliary transformer. We hooked up a 480 volt, 3
phase line between two units, capable of over 200 amps. Live to the
operating unit since we did not have a spare breaker.
Bear donned the ritual leather garb, a leather apron protecting his
manly parts, leather gloves extending up to his armpits, and a face
shield. My job was to tie a rope around Bear and pull him away from the
electrical parts while he was bolting the cables to the breaker bus if
he managed to become electrified. He did not.
Lynn
I know there are a lot of people called Bear.
I know there are a lot of Texans called Bear.
I know there are a lot of Texan engineers called Bear.
I know there were a lot of engineers working in Texas in 1982 called Bear.
But still I have to ask: was this Burl Tanner?
William Hyde
His real name was Barry. He was 6 ft tall and weighed about 350 lbs.
He lived in a single wide in Colorado City with his sister and his
mother. We called him Bear cause he looked like one and was grumpy like
one. He liked the name.
Ah, well.

William Hyde
r***@rosettacondot.com
2019-11-27 21:06:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
Peter Trei
2019-11-27 21:33:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.

Elon is also teasing a solar tonneau cover for the truck. We'll see how real that is.

Pt
r***@rosettacondot.com
2019-11-28 13:34:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
Peter Trei
2019-11-28 16:21:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by Peter Trei
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
That's definitely a problem, though I do envy you having that much space. There
are clearly circumstances where EVs have problems ICE vehicles don't.

EVs aside, have you considered at using solar, and going 'off grid'?

pt
Alan Baker
2019-11-28 18:21:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by Peter Trei
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2019-12-02 16:39:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 4:08:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
      come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla
Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're
expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier.  Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and
fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display?  That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
     Cheers,
             Gary    B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different,
but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck !  Still looks like vaporware to me.  Be sure to get the
AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery
capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere
there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3,
albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I
haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
In _Oklahoma_? You're going to have problems with wind in spring and
summer, with rain in spring, with snow in late autumn and winter. And
you're just not going to have much sunlight, too much cloud even when
it's not raining or snowing. The people at PG&E, in California, put a
solar power system into the Mojave Desert. It was a lot of mirrors aimed
at a big boiler. PG&E had to have gas turbines to deliver power both to
start the thing up and when the solar system wasn't generating enough
power. I suspect that there's a lot more sunlight and a lot less cloud,
rain, and snow in the Mojave than in Oklahoma.

Of course, this _is_ PG&E I'm talking about. I won't say that PG&E is
the most incompetent electric utility on the face of the Earth, but
that's because I haven't experienced all of the electric utilities on
the face of the Earth. I will say that PG&E is more incompetent than any
other electric utility I've ever encountered, and that includes
utilities in the Caribbean and East Africa. When you're worse than
Tanzania you're pretty damn bad.
Scott Lurndal
2019-12-02 16:49:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
In _Oklahoma_? You're going to have problems with wind in spring and
summer, with rain in spring, with snow in late autumn and winter. And
you're just not going to have much sunlight, too much cloud even when
it's not raining or snowing.
So? There are large solar farms in most every state in the country,
many with weather worse than Ok (E.g., IA, MA, WI et alia), and they do just fine.
The western farmers electric coop is building a 250MW solar farm (Skeleton Creek Solar) in
Ok along with a 200MW storage facility.
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
The people at PG&E, in California, put a
solar power system into the Mojave Desert. It was a lot of mirrors aimed
at a big boiler. PG&E had to have gas turbines to deliver power both to
start the thing up and when the solar system wasn't generating enough
power. I suspect that there's a lot more sunlight and a lot less cloud,
rain, and snow in the Mojave than in Oklahoma.
I suspect you don't really know as much as you think you do about
solar. Pointing to a 30 year old example isn't particularly
interesting. There are many more recent solar projects in the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_California#Operational
r***@rosettacondot.com
2019-12-02 19:46:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
In _Oklahoma_? You're going to have problems with wind in spring and
summer, with rain in spring, with snow in late autumn and winter. And
you're just not going to have much sunlight, too much cloud even when
it's not raining or snowing.
So? There are large solar farms in most every state in the country,
many with weather worse than Ok (E.g., IA, MA, WI et alia), and they do just fine.
The western farmers electric coop is building a 250MW solar farm (Skeleton Creek Solar) in
Ok along with a 200MW storage facility.
This is in southwest Oklahoma, so solar is actually pretty good. Without
continuous occupancy the cheapest route is heat and electricity off of
portable propane. For continuous occupancy it would depend. The big advantage
of co-op power is that while I have to pay to extend service, once it's in in
the co-op is responsible for line maintenance. If I put in solar it's mine to
maintain. Insurability and cost are both concerns. The solar installation
would close to double the insured value of any dwelling I put in. Wind and hail
are both problems and insurance costs in Oklahoma are very high.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
Dimensional Traveler
2019-12-02 21:50:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
In _Oklahoma_? You're going to have problems with wind in spring and
summer, with rain in spring, with snow in late autumn and winter. And
you're just not going to have much sunlight, too much cloud even when
it's not raining or snowing.
So? There are large solar farms in most every state in the country,
many with weather worse than Ok (E.g., IA, MA, WI et alia), and they do just fine.
The western farmers electric coop is building a 250MW solar farm (Skeleton Creek Solar) in
Ok along with a 200MW storage facility.
This is in southwest Oklahoma,
Isn't that called "Northern Texas"? :P
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Kevrob
2019-12-03 00:29:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
It's a personal problem...when we're at our property in rural Oklahoma the
closest power that doesn't involve a motel room and an extension cord is
about 30 miles away (an RV park) and the closest "real" charger is about
60 (and in the wrong direction).
When/if we build a permanent residence on the property we'll spend the money
to have power run to a convenient spot, but the local co-op charges based
on capacity and distance from the edge of the property. That's at least a
quarter mile assuming they can run the poles in a straight line.
Solar panels?
In _Oklahoma_? You're going to have problems with wind in spring and
summer, with rain in spring, with snow in late autumn and winter. And
you're just not going to have much sunlight, too much cloud even when
it's not raining or snowing.
So? There are large solar farms in most every state in the country,
many with weather worse than Ok (E.g., IA, MA, WI et alia), and they do just fine.
The western farmers electric coop is building a 250MW solar farm (Skeleton Creek Solar) in
Ok along with a 200MW storage facility.
This is in southwest Oklahoma,
Isn't that called "Northern Texas"? :P
The other way `round, there's "Baja Oklahoma."

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/dan-jenkins-2/baja-oklahoma/

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-28 17:49:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
Elon is also teasing a solar tonneau cover for the truck. We'll see how real that is.
Pt
I wonder if towing a huge solar array would cover the amount of energy
required to tow it.

Lynn
Peter Trei
2019-11-28 18:25:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by r***@rosettacondot.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:59:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest,
and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be
curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt
"Tesla Cybertruck Took in $20M Over the Weekend"
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302595-tesla-cybertruck-took-in-20m-over-the-weekend
"PT Barnum never had a better day. Nor the callers who can hardly
pronounce Windows and say you have malware on your PC. Elon Musk Sunday
night tweeted he?s lured in deposits on 200,000 Tesla Cybertrucks ? that
may or may not ship a year from now. That?s $20 million in deposits in
just three days. If it does ship on time, that, too, would be some kind
of Tesla record."
Just proves that idiots will but ugly things if they're expensive enough.
I was trying to explain how bloody awful the new Tesla Useless variant
"Take a normally ugly example of an ugly class of vehicle, the sort of
crap that USAians refers to as a 'truck', and set about making it
uglier. Then beat it up several times with ugly sticks, and fire ugly
ugly balls at it as well, just to make sure it is even uglier."
And the chief eejit doesn't have sufficient clue to check the windows
really will stand the impact before the display? That sort of
incompetence, at the board level, usually results in them "leaving the
company to pursue other interests."
At least Steve Jobs didn't come into the office until /after/ he had
sobered up from whatever shit he'd taken on the weekend, and, more
pointedly, he wanted the designers to deliver something *new*.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
I'd have thought that being in the much reviled class of 'Sci Fi fan' would
have given you a little tolerance for People Who Are Different, but I guess not.
I'll stand with now quarter million people who have preordered. I don't have to
commit for a couple years, by which time tastes may change.
Pt
Good luck ! Still looks like vaporware to me. Be sure to get the AWD
and the biggest battery that they sell.
I wonder if one could make a business model for selling a trailer for
Teslas with a diesel generator and a ten gallon tank on it.
How much charge could you put on it with a 10 gallon tank?
Depending on the generator, a gallon of gasoline is roughly 6 kWH, so 60 kWH.
If I did the math correctly, a pound of propane (21,000 BTU) is about 1 kWH
so a pair of 30 lb cylinders would be the equivalent of 10 gallons of gas.
That should be somewhere around 2/3 capacity on the base model truck and 1/3
of the top-end. AFAIK Tesla hasn't given the battery capacity...they're using
"miles".
Post by J. Clarke
Note that electric vehicles cannot be powered by generators on towed
trailers unless a safety interlock is hacked.
It would be more useful for overnight or on-the-job charging. The dual-fuel
generators I was looking at can do 7.5 to 9.5 kW long-term (or about 25%
higher if you don't mind wearing them out faster.) Of course those are small
enough not to require a trailer...
The thing with EVs is that you can charge them almost anywhere there's a power socket. A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5 mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph. I haven't had reason to visit a Supercharger for over a month.
Elon is also teasing a solar tonneau cover for the truck. We'll see how real that is.
Pt
I wonder if towing a huge solar array would cover the amount of energy
required to tow it.
Lynn
Theoretically, yes, since solar cars exist which don't appear to require
pre-charging the battery.

Example: https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/english/NEWS_EN/20090908/175016/

However, every proposed 'consumer grade' solar car I've seen assumes several
hours sitting in the sun for every hour of driving. They might work as a
commuter vehicle in sunny areas. Most can also be plugged in to the grid
to charge faster.

Musk has teased a solar tonneau cover for his truck, perhaps with fold out
wings to increase area. The context was camping off grid, not driving or
a regular parking lot.

pt
David DeLaney
2019-12-03 07:17:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
A regular 16 Amp, 110v will charge my 3, albeit at a miserable rate (3-5
mph). A 220 V, 50 Amp at 30+ mph.
... huh. I guess miles per hour IS a usable set of units for electric-car
charging rates.

Dave, the more you know
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2019-11-27 19:05:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
Post by Peter Trei
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
The price will go up.
Post by Peter Trei
pt
Alan Baker
2019-11-27 19:08:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
I'm not a huge fan of its looks...

...or the probable aerodynamic drag.
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
I wouldn't be so certain of that.
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
Video cameras...
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
The price will go up.
Probably... ...but by no means certainly.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-27 22:31:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
Post by Peter Trei
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
    come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
The price will go up.
I doubt it. Battery price is the biggest part of the vehicle and those
are dropping rapidly.

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2019-11-27 23:14:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
J. Clarke
2019-11-27 23:27:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
Alan Baker
2019-11-27 23:39:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
Juho Julkunen
2019-11-28 03:20:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
--
Juho Julkunen
J. Clarke
2019-11-28 03:56:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 05:20:05 +0200, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It might be the only legislation that actually has a chance to get
through both houses.
Alan Baker
2019-11-28 04:14:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
Seriously, dude:

It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
Scott Lurndal
2019-11-29 19:07:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
Juho Julkunen
2019-11-29 20:02:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <I%dEF.113418$***@fx06.iad>, ***@slp53.sl.home
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
--
Juho Julkunen
J. Clarke
2019-11-29 22:24:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 22:02:56 +0200, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
FWIW, some Infiniti models come with steer-by-wire but there is a
mechanical backup.
Magewolf
2019-11-30 16:44:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 22:02:56 +0200, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
FWIW, some Infiniti models come with steer-by-wire but there is a
mechanical backup.
Then they just need to set it up so you could link your Xbox one
controller to it with bluetooth and it would be just like playing forza
horizon in real life.
Alan Baker
2019-11-29 23:02:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?

We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
p***@hotmail.com
2019-11-29 23:50:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I read that the army once designed a control system for the task
of aiming the main gun on a tank, starting from a clean sheet
of paper, with no preconceptions of what it should look like.
They ended up, for azimuth control, with something very much
like an automobile steering wheel. In addition to its very large
installed base, the steering wheel has a lot to recommend it.
Since it is circular, the driver can reposition their hands to
keep centered as it is turned, and they never run out of travel.
Note that many early cars had steering tillers instead of
wheels; this system did not survive even until the Model T.

That said, a driver with only one functional arm will often install
a knob on the perimeter to make it easier to spin the wheel when a
lot of movement is needed, as in parking. I have heard of a bureau
of motor vehicles issuing a license to a disabled driver with a
restriction that any vehicle they operate have such a knob.

Also, there are a variety of systems of hand controls for a paraplegic
driver to control acceleration and braking. These date back at
least to World War 2 and from what I've read they work well.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
J. Clarke
2019-11-29 23:59:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I read that the army once designed a control system for the task
of aiming the main gun on a tank, starting from a clean sheet
of paper, with no preconceptions of what it should look like.
They ended up, for azimuth control, with something very much
like an automobile steering wheel. In addition to its very large
installed base, the steering wheel has a lot to recommend it.
Since it is circular, the driver can reposition their hands to
keep centered as it is turned, and they never run out of travel.
Note that many early cars had steering tillers instead of
wheels; this system did not survive even until the Model T.
That said, a driver with only one functional arm will often install
a knob on the perimeter to make it easier to spin the wheel when a
lot of movement is needed, as in parking. I have heard of a bureau
of motor vehicles issuing a license to a disabled driver with a
restriction that any vehicle they operate have such a knob.
Also, there are a variety of systems of hand controls for a paraplegic
driver to control acceleration and braking. These date back at
least to World War 2 and from what I've read they work well.
I've been aboard US nuclear subs a couple of times. The first time
there was an interesting navigation display. The helmsman and the
planesman had "driving down the road" displays complete with
centerline and steering wheel. The next time, a decade or so later, I
noted that that was no longer the case and asked about it. I was told
that they ran into a problem with "highway hypnosis" using that system
and convential dials worked out better.

Note that I did not observe any significant resemblance to the bridge
of the Enterprise in either case.
Kevrob
2019-11-30 00:13:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I read that the army once designed a control system for the task
of aiming the main gun on a tank, starting from a clean sheet
of paper, with no preconceptions of what it should look like.
They ended up, for azimuth control, with something very much
like an automobile steering wheel. In addition to its very large
installed base, the steering wheel has a lot to recommend it.
Since it is circular, the driver can reposition their hands to
keep centered as it is turned, and they never run out of travel.
Note that many early cars had steering tillers instead of
wheels; this system did not survive even until the Model T.
That said, a driver with only one functional arm will often install
a knob on the perimeter to make it easier to spin the wheel when a
lot of movement is needed, as in parking. I have heard of a bureau
of motor vehicles issuing a license to a disabled driver with a
restriction that any vehicle they operate have such a knob.
See, also:

We used to call those "necker knobs," when used by guys with
2 good arms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_knob
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Also, there are a variety of systems of hand controls for a paraplegic
driver to control acceleration and braking. These date back at
least to World War 2 and from what I've read they work well.
A fellow comics fan I knew in Milwaukee had a sedan with all the
controls on the steering wheel, circa 1974. He could walk, but wore
braces, and often used a cane. He may have had polio as a youngster.
He'd play softball with us, and when it was his turn to hit, he had
a "designated runner" - the guy who made out last inning. He wasn't
a bad pitcher, and any balls hit short of the mound had to be fielded
by the corner basemen or the catcher. You couldn't bunt on him, either,
as that wouldn't be sporting. Mike, as he was known, also played guitar,
and in addition to having a skilled factory job, was in a "wedding band."
He was a cool dude, and, if my internet sleuthing is correct, still is.

I once asked him to teach me play, but I didn't follow through, to my regret.
I was too busy with college, and with some extracurriculars.

(Cue "Die Straits": "Money For Nothing.")

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2019-11-30 00:27:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I read that the army once designed a control system for the task
of aiming the main gun on a tank, starting from a clean sheet
of paper, with no preconceptions of what it should look like.
They ended up, for azimuth control, with something very much
like an automobile steering wheel. In addition to its very large
installed base, the steering wheel has a lot to recommend it.
Since it is circular, the driver can reposition their hands to
keep centered as it is turned, and they never run out of travel.
Note that many early cars had steering tillers instead of
wheels; this system did not survive even until the Model T.
That said, a driver with only one functional arm will often install
a knob on the perimeter to make it easier to spin the wheel when a
lot of movement is needed, as in parking. I have heard of a bureau
of motor vehicles issuing a license to a disabled driver with a
restriction that any vehicle they operate have such a knob.
We used to call those "necker knobs," when used by guys with
2 good arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_knob
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Also, there are a variety of systems of hand controls for a paraplegic
driver to control acceleration and braking. These date back at
least to World War 2 and from what I've read they work well.
A fellow comics fan I knew in Milwaukee had a sedan with all the
controls on the steering wheel, circa 1974. He could walk, but wore
braces, and often used a cane. He may have had polio as a youngster.
He'd play softball with us, and when it was his turn to hit, he had
a "designated runner" - the guy who made out last inning. He wasn't
a bad pitcher, and any balls hit short of the mound had to be fielded
by the corner basemen or the catcher. You couldn't bunt on him, either,
as that wouldn't be sporting. Mike, as he was known, also played guitar,
and in addition to having a skilled factory job, was in a "wedding band."
He was a cool dude, and, if my internet sleuthing is correct, still is.
I once asked him to teach me play, but I didn't follow through, to my regret.
I was too busy with college, and with some extracurriculars.
(Cue "Die Straits": "Money For Nothing.")
Then there's this guy:



If you are a fan of "The Grand Tour" you've seen him smoke Richard
Hammond.
Kevrob
2019-11-30 00:57:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
http://youtu.be/8FrVnb_S9IM
If you are a fan of "The Grand Tour" you've seen him smoke Richard
Hammond.
I haven't seen that, but I watched the video, and Bartek
ROCKS!!!!

Thanks for sharing that.

Kevin R
Peter Trei
2019-11-30 00:39:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I think there's a very strong argument for a system in which, even if all
engine, electrical, and vacuum failed, the car can still be brought to a
controlled stop. That requires the brakes and steering to operate mechanically.

pt
J. Clarke
2019-11-30 00:49:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 16:39:50 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I think there's a very strong argument for a system in which, even if all
engine, electrical, and vacuum failed, the car can still be brought to a
controlled stop. That requires the brakes and steering to operate mechanically.
However electric cars are using regenerative braking now. On older
models regen wouldn't bring the car to a complete stop, on some newer
ones I understand that it can. They do have hydraulic brakes as well.
Alan Baker
2019-11-30 03:33:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
I think there's a very strong argument for a system in which, even if all
engine, electrical, and vacuum failed, the car can still be brought to a
controlled stop. That requires the brakes and steering to operate mechanically.
pt
Agreed.

But also, the steering wheel as a mechanism for precision just works.

:-)
Juho Julkunen
2019-11-30 03:43:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
You're all for changing the law to allow using cameras and instead of
mirrors, despite them working well.

You have no interest in changing the law to allow using other controls
besides steering wheels and pedals, because they work well.

Seriously, dude.
--
Juho Julkunen
Alan Baker
2019-11-30 03:52:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
I'm pretty sure legistlation in Europe requires a mechanical steering
linkage, and I thought it was the same in the US. More laws to be
changed, I suppose.
Whatever for?
We use steering wheels and pedals because they work well.
You're all for changing the law to allow using cameras and instead of
mirrors, despite them working well.
Because cameras will work better.
Post by Juho Julkunen
You have no interest in changing the law to allow using other controls
besides steering wheels and pedals, because they work well.
Seriously: think it through.
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-29 20:07:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
I really wish he'd dump the steering wheel and pedals for a center mounted
sidestick controller.
Like a Johnny Cab ?
https://talkingpointz.com/johnny-cab/

Lynn
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2019-12-02 15:27:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 19:03:13 UTC, Panthera Tigris
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors.  Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
There are many vendors who are already mounting cameras _in addition to_
rear-view mirrors; both Ram and Chevy trucks have such cameras,
according to their ads. Having cameras _instead_ of rear-view mirrors,
no. My current car, a Toyota, has a rear-mounted camera which only pops
up on screen when I put the car into reverse. It wouldn't take much, and
only software at that, to be able to have it be a rear-view camera on a
semi-permanent basis. I would like to use the screen for things other
than just being a rear-view, but I suppose that this would also be
fixable, if only by using some variant on picture-in-picture.
Peter Trei
2019-12-02 17:25:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 19:03:13 UTC, Panthera Tigris
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors.  Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead of
rear-view mirrors.
There are many vendors who are already mounting cameras _in addition to_
rear-view mirrors; both Ram and Chevy trucks have such cameras,
according to their ads. Having cameras _instead_ of rear-view mirrors,
no. My current car, a Toyota, has a rear-mounted camera which only pops
up on screen when I put the car into reverse. It wouldn't take much, and
only software at that, to be able to have it be a rear-view camera on a
semi-permanent basis. I would like to use the screen for things other
than just being a rear-view, but I suppose that this would also be
fixable, if only by using some variant on picture-in-picture.
There are plenty of busses and RVs in the US which already have permanent rear view cameras in lieu of mirrors. Backup cameras are now mandatory on new cars. The issue at hand is replacing wing mirrors, and the NHTSA is looking at the issue right now. There are both advantages and drawbacks.

Pt
Dimensional Traveler
2019-12-02 19:51:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 19:03:13 UTC, Panthera Tigris
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors.  Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead
of rear-view mirrors.
There are many vendors who are already mounting cameras _in addition to_
rear-view mirrors; both Ram and Chevy trucks have such cameras,
according to their ads. Having cameras _instead_ of rear-view mirrors,
no. My current car, a Toyota, has a rear-mounted camera which only pops
up on screen when I put the car into reverse. It wouldn't take much, and
only software at that, to be able to have it be a rear-view camera on a
semi-permanent basis. I would like to use the screen for things other
than just being a rear-view, but I suppose that this would also be
fixable, if only by using some variant on picture-in-picture.
Maybe send the camera feed to a dedicated screen mounted inside the
windshield top center or in small housings on the outside of the vehicle
where the driver can see them thru the side windows.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Robert Carnegie
2019-12-02 21:26:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:14:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 19:03:13 UTC, Panthera Tigris
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors.  Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
We aren't talking about logic, we are talking about law.
This may come as a shock... ...but laws can be changed.
I'm sure changing the law to make Musktruck street legal is a top
priority for the Congress. It's not like they have anything else on
their plate.
It is hardly only Elon Musk who wants to start using cameras instead
of rear-view mirrors.
There are many vendors who are already mounting cameras _in addition to_
rear-view mirrors; both Ram and Chevy trucks have such cameras,
according to their ads. Having cameras _instead_ of rear-view mirrors,
no. My current car, a Toyota, has a rear-mounted camera which only pops
up on screen when I put the car into reverse. It wouldn't take much, and
only software at that, to be able to have it be a rear-view camera on a
semi-permanent basis. I would like to use the screen for things other
than just being a rear-view, but I suppose that this would also be
fixable, if only by using some variant on picture-in-picture.
Maybe send the camera feed to a dedicated screen mounted inside the
windshield top center or in small housings on the outside of the vehicle
where the driver can see them thru the side windows.
You mean like... mirrors? Oh, clearly you do.

Well, if the wiring breaks, you can still see an image,
if the screen is reflective.
Dimensional Traveler
2019-11-27 23:34:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
The laws won't have caught up with the technology by then. (If ever.)
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Alan Baker
2019-11-27 23:40:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 19:03:13 UTC, Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors.  Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
The laws won't have caught up with the technology by then.  (If ever.)
Have you seen any 7" round headlights on cars lately?
Peter Trei
2019-11-28 01:06:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
They'd have to pay me to take one of those things off their hands.
Post by Peter Trei
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
Good.
Post by Peter Trei
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
Add a year. Or two.
Post by Peter Trei
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
It has a number of defects, starting with the lack of mirrors, which
would ensure that it is not street legal. Fixing it will take time and
cost money.
If they get it to drive itself, logically you can skip
the mirrors. Or just use all-round cameras to inform
a human driver.
The laws won't have caught up with the technology by then. (If ever.)
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
You should read your own signature line more often.

The NHTSA is in a public comment period on exactly this, right now.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-22036.pdf

https://www.autonews.com/technology/should-cameras-replace-car-mirrors-nhtsa-wants-know

Pt
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