Discussion:
Living forever, continued
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Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 15:27:02 UTC
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A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.

And there are other stories about people attaining longevity:
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."

Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."

I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work. (If anyone does, please
mention them.)

But here's an article on the naked mole rat, which lives orders
of magnitude longer than any rat ought to do.

https://www.wired.com/story/long-strange-life-worlds-oldest-naked-mole-rat/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

There's a story in there somewhere.

(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human, half
scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains this
with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having been
found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Steve Coltrin
2021-05-25 16:16:38 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 16:58:15 UTC
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Post by Steve Coltrin
begin fnord
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
/sigh
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-05-26 04:56:19 UTC
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Post by Steve Coltrin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
/sigh
A drug that eliminates brotherly love. How that would prolong life is not clear...

But I do remember a really old SF story which had "Agathon" in its title.

It took some time for me to find it, as there are more recent science fiction
results, but the story I was thinking of was "Fruits of the Agathon" by Charles
L. Harness, from the December 1948 issue of Thrilling Wonder Stories.

A capsule description of the story claims that the word has the meaning in
Greek of "the death of an individual planned for the good of society", whereas
other results only indicate Agathon as the personal name of a Greek poet (mentioned
in Plato's Symposium, as it happens).

This could well be the reason why drugs to prolong life are called anti-agathics,
as this could be the story that connected "Agathon" to death in its meaning.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-05-26 05:27:23 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Steve Coltrin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
/sigh
A drug that eliminates brotherly love. How that would prolong life is not clear...
But I do remember a really old SF story which had "Agathon" in its title.
It took some time for me to find it, as there are more recent science fiction
results, but the story I was thinking of was "Fruits of the Agathon" by Charles
L. Harness, from the December 1948 issue of Thrilling Wonder Stories.
A capsule description of the story claims that the word has the meaning in
Greek of "the death of an individual planned for the good of society", whereas
other results only indicate Agathon as the personal name of a Greek poet (mentioned
in Plato's Symposium, as it happens).
This could well be the reason why drugs to prolong life are called anti-agathics,
as this could be the story that connected "Agathon" to death in its meaning.
However, in the preamble to the story, it was noted that "Agathon" came from
"agathos", good and "thanatos", death. So that story had been based on correct
Greek - but people later, taking a hasty look at the title, could have gotten the
words mixed up.

John Savard
Paul S Person
2021-05-26 18:02:34 UTC
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On Tue, 25 May 2021 22:27:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Steve Coltrin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
/sigh
A drug that eliminates brotherly love. How that would prolong life is not clear...
But I do remember a really old SF story which had "Agathon" in its title.
It took some time for me to find it, as there are more recent science fiction
results, but the story I was thinking of was "Fruits of the Agathon" by Charles
L. Harness, from the December 1948 issue of Thrilling Wonder Stories.
A capsule description of the story claims that the word has the meaning in
Greek of "the death of an individual planned for the good of society", whereas
other results only indicate Agathon as the personal name of a Greek poet (mentioned
in Plato's Symposium, as it happens).
This could well be the reason why drugs to prolong life are called anti-agathics,
as this could be the story that connected "Agathon" to death in its meaning.
However, in the preamble to the story, it was noted that "Agathon" came from
"agathos", good and "thanatos", death. So that story had been based on correct
Greek - but people later, taking a hasty look at the title, could have gotten the
words mixed up.
And yet Bing brings up:

"The Ancient Greek word ??a??? [Agathón=good, benevolent, kind] refers
to an aggregate of concepts encompassing all moral, intellectual and
spiritual virtues of man. It must be thought of as an absolute state,
with an existence which is independent and unaffected by time, space
or any other change."

And this page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathon> appears to be
about the poet. It says nothing about his death being "planned". But
perhaps something else is being referred to.

The confusion appears to run deeper than we knew ...
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Tony Nance
2021-05-25 23:56:45 UTC
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begin fnord
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
A name also used by the role-playing game GURPS; Traveller elides it to
"anagathics". Babylon 5 uses "anti-agapics", probably because someone
who didn't know their Greek misheard it.
That seems very likely, since in one if the Babylon 5 script books,
Larry DiTillio -- who wrote the episode you're referring to[1][2] -- said
that he called a doctor friend looking for an appropriate term, and
Larry heard it as "anti-agapic". It seems plausible that the doctor was
saying "anti-agathic".

Interesting, though, is that I ran across an article that claimed Blish
actually used three different terms in the short stories -- including
"anti-agapic" -- but that they all became "anti-agathic" when collected
into Cities in Flight. https://oikofuge.com/anti-agathic/

And -- agreeing with your sentiment above -- multiple sources agree that
Blish's usage of "anti-agathic" was probably a mistake for what should
have been "anti-thanatic".

Tony
[1] "Deathwalker"
[2] Making this one of the minority of episodes not written by JMS.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-25 17:05:48 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-05-25 17:18:10 UTC
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Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 19:05:17 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-25 21:26:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?

It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing, if hopefully not
with participants in this production. I have
some "making-of" books that are going to need
unfortunate revisions.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 23:03:32 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-26 01:02:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
J. Clarke
2021-05-26 01:22:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 25 May 2021 18:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
I remember one who got away with quite a lot. He would often walk up
to a young woman, pull out her waistband, and inspect her
undergarments. And oddly they seemed to enjoy him doing that.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-26 03:38:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 25 May 2021 18:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
I remember one who got away with quite a lot. He would often walk up
to a young woman, pull out her waistband, and inspect her
undergarments. And oddly they seemed to enjoy him doing that.
Well, if the woman knows for certain that the man is gay, he's
not a sexual threat.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-26 03:38:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
But probably wouldn't.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-26 10:55:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
But probably wouldn't.
Well, John Barrowman did. Rather a lot.
To everybody, which isn't quite the same but...
anyway, it's bad for him, but Noel Clarke's
reputation has gone full Harvey Weinstein.
Most of which he denies but the number of
accusers is distressingly large.

Sorry.
J. Clarke
2021-05-26 11:34:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 26 May 2021 03:55:17 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Or the goshwow womps him all the way back to Urbilatarian and he
makes a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque on the way back.
That is also an idea!!
You're not actually /objecting/ to a giant
Mark Gatiss man-scorpion rampaging through
a modern office and laboratory building, though?
If it weren't draining people of their lives, if it was willing
to eat human food (that's e.g. fish'n'chips and pork pies, not
humans AS food), no. But Dr. Lazarus was in "I'll eat anything
that moves" mode, and since there was nothing moving/edible in
his environment except humans....
Post by Robert Carnegie
It does also get a bit sexual-harassy as well
though - and sometimes when the cameras
were off, we've been hearing,
Uh, you do know Mark Gatiss is gay? So whoever he might have
been making up to off-camera, it wouldn't have been Gugu
Mbatha-Raw.
Not Mark Gatiss, and I do not remember if he has
ever stained his escutcheon, but it's possible for
a gay man to show you something that you
didn't ask to see.
But probably wouldn't.
Well, John Barrowman did. Rather a lot.
To everybody, which isn't quite the same but...
anyway, it's bad for him, but Noel Clarke's
reputation has gone full Harvey Weinstein.
Most of which he denies but the number of
accusers is distressingly large.
Reading more on it though, some of them seem to be more his being a
bad tempered director and them not liking being directed--"Get naked
for this sex scene" "no" "yes" "no" "yes" "no" "yes" "fuck you"
(director punches wall, car, punching bag, intern, etc) "Action".
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 19:04:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human,
half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains
this with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having
been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being at
rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the scientist
evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all, crabs have evolved
at least five times in completely independent lines.
Now, that's an idea.

Not that the scientist was a time-traveler himself, just an
exceptionally self-centered and greedy evolutionary biologist.

But it's still an idea, and one that would not have occurred to
the scriptwriter (Stephen Greenhorn), not unless he had studied
*at least* as much biology as I have, which consisted of one year
in high school, one in junior college, and a lot of random googling.

And even time-travelling would not enable a mammalian species to
have a descendant species that was a genuine arthropod. A
species that looked a hell of a lot like an arthropod, possibly.

I will get into the distinction between protostomes and
deuterostomes only if asked.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-25 21:43:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment,"
in which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by
means of a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half
human, half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor
explains this with some bafflegab about reverting to an
earlier stage of evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in
the evolutionary history of vertebrates. One would have to go
back to the Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no
fossils having been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's
Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being
at rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the
scientist evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all,
crabs have evolved at least five times in completely independent
lines.
Now, that's an idea.
Not that the scientist was a time-traveler himself, just an
exceptionally self-centered and greedy evolutionary biologist.
It was, you said, The Doctor who called it reverting to an earlier
state, and he *is* a time traveller.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But it's still an idea, and one that would not have occurred to
the scriptwriter (Stephen Greenhorn), not unless he had studied
*at least* as much biology as I have, which consisted of one
year in high school, one in junior college, and a lot of random
googling.
Not an unusual amoount, all things considered.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And even time-travelling would not enable a mammalian species to
have a descendant species that was a genuine arthropod. A
species that looked a hell of a lot like an arthropod, possibly.
Not all of the five crab-like species are true crabs. In fact,
there is an entire category called "false crabs."
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I will get into the distinction between protostomes and
deuterostomes only if asked.
Nobody ahs asked.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 23:04:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment,"
in which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by
means of a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half
human, half scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor
explains this with some bafflegab about reverting to an
earlier stage of evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in
the evolutionary history of vertebrates. One would have to go
back to the Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no
fossils having been found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's
Doctor Who.)
Perhaps he only got the direction of evolution backwards (being
at rime traveller and all, it's understandable). Perhaps the
scientist evolved *into* something skorpion like. After all,
crabs have evolved at least five times in completely independent
lines.
Now, that's an idea.
Not that the scientist was a time-traveler himself, just an
exceptionally self-centered and greedy evolutionary biologist.
It was, you said, The Doctor who called it reverting to an earlier
state, and he *is* a time traveller.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But it's still an idea, and one that would not have occurred to
the scriptwriter (Stephen Greenhorn), not unless he had studied
*at least* as much biology as I have, which consisted of one
year in high school, one in junior college, and a lot of random
googling.
Not an unusual amoount, all things considered.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And even time-travelling would not enable a mammalian species to
have a descendant species that was a genuine arthropod. A
species that looked a hell of a lot like an arthropod, possibly.
Not all of the five crab-like species are true crabs. In fact,
there is an entire category called "false crabs."
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I will get into the distinction between protostomes and
deuterostomes only if asked.
Nobody has asked.
Okay.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
William Hyde
2021-05-25 20:39:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding" story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few, in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.

The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if they want it.

And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".



William Hyde
Ross Presser
2021-05-25 21:02:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding" story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few, in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in _Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body. Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you call the Boxes person a "Friend".

Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people, with that huge backlog!
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-25 21:17:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Presser
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding" story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few, in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in _Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body. Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people, with that huge backlog!
I'll... go with oops.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 23:05:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding"
story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few,
in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are
stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if
they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in _Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body.
Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other
senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you
call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and
have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another
lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people,
with that huge backlog!
Ewwwww. What's that planet in the Bujold novels where they do
that on a regular basis for elderly men with lots of money?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-25 23:47:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding"
story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few,
in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are
stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if
they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in
_Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body.
Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other
senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you
call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and
have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another
lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people,
with that huge backlog!
Ewwwww. What's that planet in the Bujold novels where they do
that on a regular basis for elderly men with lots of money?
Jackson's Whole ???

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-26 03:39:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding"
story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few,
in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are
stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if
they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in
_Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body.
Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other
senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you
call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and
have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another
lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people,
with that huge backlog!
Ewwwww. What's that planet in the Bujold novels where they do
that on a regular basis for elderly men with lots of money?
Jackson's Whole ???
That's it; thanks.

Also, yucch.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-26 13:06:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding"
story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few,
in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are
stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and
have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another
lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people,
with that huge backlog!
Ewwwww. What's that planet in the Bujold novels where they do
that on a regular basis for elderly men with lots of money?
Jackson's Whole ???
That's it; thanks.
Also, yucch.
And one of the spares who didn't want Mark to rescue her:
"I go to join my lady." Double- or triple-yucch.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Economists have correctly predicted seven of the last three recessions.
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-26 19:38:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding"
story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few,
in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are
stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if
they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in
_Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body.
Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other
senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you
call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and
have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another
lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people,
with that huge backlog!
Ewwwww. What's that planet in the Bujold novels where they do
that on a regular basis for elderly men with lots of money?
Jackson's Whole ???
That's it; thanks.
Also, yucch.
Lots of yucky things happened at Jackson's Whole. Of course, Tara
(werewolf girl) came from there. And the Dendarii Free Mercenary Fleet
is home based at Jackson's Whole also.

Lynn
Quadibloc
2021-05-27 05:14:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Presser
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in _Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body. Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people, with that huge backlog!
Of course, it's not really fair to criticize the extrapolation of future technology in those stories as
unrealistic: it was specifically chosen to facilitate storytelling that related to the issues the author
wanted to present.

In a more "realistic" scenario...

people kept alive after death (most likely as uploads, rather than preserved brains) would no doubt
be connected to a computer-simulated reality allowing them to exercise all their sensory and motor
functions... so that they wouldn't go crazy after a few years,

and (particularly if preserved brains _were_ involved, but even in the case of uploads) providing new
flesh-and-blood bodies for the bodily deceased would involve their own clones, not other people's
children... _and_ the brains would be removed at a sufficiently early stage of embryonic development
that it would be difficult to argue a serious moral issue.

So, as you probably can guess, my first reaction to Michael Coney would be: "why is this terrible person
trying to sway public sentiment against uploading, so that the technology might not be ready *during
my lifetime*".

John Savard
William Hyde
2021-05-27 19:19:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Presser
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Simak touches on the subject a few times. In a classic "Astounding" story from
the 40s ("Eternity Lost") eternal life is available for a select few, in the 60s novel "Why Call them Back from Heaven" people's minds are stored, to be reincarnated in a body whenever that becomes possible.
The people in Tim Huntley's "One on me" seem to have eternal life, if they want it.
And of course there's "900 Grandmothers".
Michael Coney approached this in a few short stories, collected in _Friends Come In Boxes_.
Brains can be kept in a box and later implanted into a new body. Naturally there's a huge backlog,
with millions of Boxes. Boxes allow you to hear and talk, but no other senses or motor functions.
Keeping a person in a Box company is considered praiseworthy, and you call the Boxes person a "Friend".
Everyone is encouraged to Fall In Love once per embodied lifetime and have lots of children -- so
that Friends can be transplanted into new bodies to live another lifetime. The child's brain is,
of course, discarded as unnecessary -- there's no room for new people, with that huge backlog!
Ah, yes, that was one of three novels I read the day of my first hangover. Not the least depressing of them, either.

William Hyde
Christian Weisgerber
2021-05-25 21:08:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, there is "booster spice".
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work.
It's hard to describe how anti-aging interventions are supposed to
work when we don't understand how aging works in the first place.
In animals it probably has something to do with oxygen metabolism
causing deleterious mutations, the consequential split into an
immortal germline and somatic cells, and cancers.

There are probably stories from a number of years on either side
of the turn of the millennium that give telomere renewal as way to
immortality, because that was floating around in pop science articles
at the time, but it doesn't work that way. Because cancers.

There is also a hypothesis that menopause is a stopgap adaptation
because human lifespan has (in evolutionary terms) recently increased
and anticancer defenses haven't caught up yet.
"Can postfertile life stages evolve as an anticancer mechanism?"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000565
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But here's an article on the naked mole rat, which lives orders
of magnitude longer than any rat ought to do.
I don't think we have a good understanding why different critters
have different lifespans, nor how they accomplish it.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human, half
scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains this
with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates.
In Edmond Hamilton's _Captain Future and the Space Emperor_, the
first Captain Future novel, the villain found some high tech gadgets
from the lost Jovian civilization, including one that he uses as a
weapon that makes its victims suffer "devolution" (?), where they
revert to earlier evolutionary stages as monstrous apes, then
reptiles.

Conversely, Hamilton also wrote a short story where somebody gets
into some machine that fast-forwards evolution, turning him into
progressive stages of superhuman. I don't think it ended well.

None of this makes a lick of sense, of course.

----

In Perry Rhodan, immortality was mostly granted by our Galaxy's
local superintelligent entity. First a "cell shower" that had to
be regularly refreshed, then by a very limited distribution of "cell
activators", devices that could be worn. As the series progressed,
it also developed some rather long-lived species, because the authors
didn't want to kill off popular characters and it took a long time
to get them a cell activator.

Greg Egan has written a bunch of novels and stories that deal
with--and increasingly assume as a background--immortalizing people
by transferring their minds to a non-biological substrate (mind
uploading).

Ken MacLeod's Fall Revolution series also incorporates mind uploading.
I don't quite remember, but by _The Cassini Division_, the resultant
post-human entities and plain humans are mortal enemies. In _Sky Road_
there was also some secret mortality cure for biological humans.
The protagonist eventually learns that his girlfriend is a lot older
than he thought and that the mortality cure is sexually transmitted.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-25 23:10:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Christian Weisgerber
There is also a hypothesis that menopause is a stopgap adaptation
because human lifespan has (in evolutionary terms) recently increased
and anticancer defenses haven't caught up yet.
"Can postfertile life stages evolve as an anticancer mechanism?"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000565
What I've mostly read is more on the practical side: taking care
of human infants (who, under primitive conditions, take four
years to be completely weaned, at which point they can be raised
by the tribe and the mother can get pregnant again) is a hell of
a lot of work, and the older a woman gets, the harder it is to
raise, let alone bear, another child.

And having borne one child at the age of 32 and another at 33, I
can testify that it is hellish hard work.

But a woman who goes through menopause in mid-life can live
longer, and become a repository of tribal wisdom.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-26 00:57:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, there is "booster spice".
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work.
It's hard to describe how anti-aging interventions are supposed to
work when we don't understand how aging works in the first place.
In animals it probably has something to do with oxygen metabolism
causing deleterious mutations, the consequential split into an
immortal germline and somatic cells, and cancers.
There are probably stories from a number of years on either side
of the turn of the millennium that give telomere renewal as way to
immortality, because that was floating around in pop science articles
at the time, but it doesn't work that way. Because cancers.
Stories about the moral dilemmas of general longevity
treatment have to offer an explanation of how it works,
which is going to fall short of reality because if you
really knew then you would be doing it and not making
up stories. Let's see if I remember... Larry Niven had a
far future teleport machine that leaves your accumulated
oldness molecules behind, _Bug Jack Barron_ has organ
!transplants which create a stable balance between
I guess living and dying, _The Long Habit of Living_ aka
_Buying Time_ doesn't exactly have one thing and there are
trade secrets but basically all of your organs are pulled out
and refurbished and put back and you're good for...
ten more years? And a number of stories favour individual
organ transplants as preventative maintenance.
Post by Christian Weisgerber
There is also a hypothesis that menopause is a stopgap adaptation
because human lifespan has (in evolutionary terms) recently increased
and anticancer defenses haven't caught up yet.
"Can postfertile life stages evolve as an anticancer mechanism?"
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000565
After menopause, your skeleton dissolves.
Gradually but definitely. Yes cancer is bad but...
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But here's an article on the naked mole rat, which lives orders
of magnitude longer than any rat ought to do.
I don't think we have a good understanding why different critters
have different lifespans, nor how they accomplish it.
There's the "planned obsolescence" theory of
getting a fair opportunity to make offspring,
then you get out of their way. Maybe by them
eating you. Waste not want not.
Bill Dugan
2021-05-26 16:09:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:08:06 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, there is "booster spice".
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work.
It's hard to describe how anti-aging interventions are supposed to
work when we don't understand how aging works in the first place.
In animals it probably has something to do with oxygen metabolism
causing deleterious mutations, the consequential split into an
immortal germline and somatic cells, and cancers.
There are probably stories from a number of years on either side
of the turn of the millennium that give telomere renewal as way to
immortality, because that was floating around in pop science articles
at the time, but it doesn't work that way. Because cancers.
Derek Lowe recently posted some info related to this
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/25/clearing-cellular-dead-wood
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-26 16:23:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bill Dugan
On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:08:06 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, there is "booster spice".
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work.
It's hard to describe how anti-aging interventions are supposed to
work when we don't understand how aging works in the first place.
In animals it probably has something to do with oxygen metabolism
causing deleterious mutations, the consequential split into an
immortal germline and somatic cells, and cancers.
There are probably stories from a number of years on either side
of the turn of the millennium that give telomere renewal as way to
immortality, because that was floating around in pop science articles
at the time, but it doesn't work that way. Because cancers.
Derek Lowe recently posted some info related to this
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/25/clearing-cellular-dead-wood
"All living comes in time to die."
--innumerable Graydon characters

Unless you are _Turritopsis dohrnii._ And even then, something
may eat you.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-05-26 12:04:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work. (If anyone does, please
mention them.)
Steven Perry has a life extending drug in the "Man Who Never Missed"
universe - Sleel's parents are working on improving it, but I'm blanking
on how much explanation gets done.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-27 21:47:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A few days ago we had a YASID that turned out to be Vance's _To
Live Forever,_ in which the elite get not only anti-aging
treatments but redundancy in the forms of clones that get
periodic backups from the actively living person.
Cherryh's Cyteen stories, e.g., where citizens get "rejuv."
Blish's _Cities in Flight_ has an anti-aging drug that he
inaccurately named "antiagathic," which is Greek for "against the
good." He should have called them "antithanatic."
I don't recall any stories, however, that go into how the
anti-aging drugs are supposed to work. (If anyone does, please
mention them.)
But here's an article on the naked mole rat, which lives orders
of magnitude longer than any rat ought to do.
https://www.wired.com/story/long-strange-life-worlds-oldest-naked-mole-rat/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's a story in there somewhere.
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine. But he turns into a monster, half human, half
scorpion, and starts eating people. The Doctor explains this
with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution. Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates. One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having been
found [yet]. But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
And there is the most excellent Bobiverse books where they turn you into
an AI in a computer and put you in a Von Nuemann space probe.
https://www.amazon.com/We-Are-Legion-Bob-Bobiverse/dp/1680680587/
Hopefully not the future seen by Will McIntosh where they freeze your
brain and your loved ones can come talk to you.
https://www.amazon.com/Love-Minus-Eighty-Will-McIntosh/dp/0316217786/
Have I mentioned Fritz Leiber's _The Silver Eggheads_? The
brains of famous science-fiction writers are preserved in tanks
or something, waiting till someone wants to read what they've
written (I guess). When they're finally discovered, they've
gotten so out-there that most of them can't write a word.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-27 22:07:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine.  But he turns into a monster, half human, half
scorpion, and starts eating people.  The Doctor explains this
with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution.  Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates.  One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having been
found [yet].  But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Hopefully not the future seen by Will McIntosh where they freeze your
brain and your loved ones can come talk to you.
   https://www.amazon.com/Love-Minus-Eighty-Will-McIntosh/dp/0316217786/
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
--
Michael F. Stemper
What happens if you play John Cage's "4'33" at a slower tempo?
Paul S Person
2021-05-28 16:47:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(There's also a Doctor Who episode, "The Lazarus Experiment," in
which an old scientist manages to rejuvenate himself by means of
a goshwow machine.  But he turns into a monster, half human, half
scorpion, and starts eating people.  The Doctor explains this
with some bafflegab about reverting to an earlier stage of
evolution.  Now, there are NO arthropods in the evolutionary
history of vertebrates.  One would have to go back to the
Urbilatarian, which exists only in theory, no fossils having been
found [yet].  But this isn't hard SF; it's Doctor Who.)
Hopefully not the future seen by Will McIntosh where they freeze your
brain and your loved ones can come talk to you.
   https://www.amazon.com/Love-Minus-Eighty-Will-McIntosh/dp/0316217786/
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.

It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2021-05-28 17:01:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-28 18:13:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Not a film, but in the third volume of C. S. Lewis's Ransom
Trilogy, _That Hideous Strength_, the bad guys secure and preserve
the head of a very bad guy who was (a) a brilliant French scientist
and (b) guillotined for murder.

Only later do they discover that they're not talking to the head
of the brilliant bad guy scientist, but through the head to a much
worse bad guy(s).

(I don't know if France still used the guillotine in the 1950s,
and I don't care.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-28 18:30:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I don't know if France still used the guillotine in the 1950s,
and I don't care.)
For those that do, yes. Until 1977.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-28 20:37:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I don't know if France still used the guillotine in the 1950s,
and I don't care.)
For those that do, yes. Until 1977.
Okay; that makes Lewis's volume a *little* less fantastical.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
pete...@gmail.com
2021-05-29 02:13:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)

Pt
J. Clarke
2021-05-29 10:38:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
Wolffan
2021-05-29 14:16:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
Schlock Mercenary. All of the major characters except Sgt. Schlock and the
AIs spent time as heads in jars, some of them being jarheads multiple times.
Sgt. Schlock and the AIs don’t have heads, as such. And all of the major
characters except Sgt. Schlock and most of the AIs died at least once. At
least one of the AIs died but got better. And all the major characters who
survived to the end are, effectively, immortal.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2021-05-29 20:10:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
Schlock Mercenary. All of the major characters except Sgt. Schlock and the
AIs spent time as heads in jars, some of them being jarheads multiple times.
Sgt. Schlock and the AIs don’t have heads, as such. And all of the major
characters except Sgt. Schlock and most of the AIs died at least once.
Schlock died once, too. No exception needed.
Post by Wolffan
At
least one of the AIs died but got better. And all the major characters who
survived to the end are, effectively, immortal.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer & the Steam-Powered Saurians.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-29 17:06:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
In John Varley's _Steel Beach_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1108>

there is the First Latitudinarian Church of Celebrity Saints (pronounced
"Flacks"). Their leaders[1] are kept in TV sets. Obviously, these are
CRT, not OLED sets. Even so, there's not a lot of room, so the torsos
and other useless bits are not included.

Even those in the hierarchy who haven't been so honored walk around[2]
with their skulls enclosed in what are at least mock-ups of TV sets.


[1] I suppose that they're the heads of the church.
[2] Obviously, only those who haven't received the dubious honor are
able to walk around.
--
Michael F. Stemper
A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-29 22:39:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
Dark Star (though they have the whole body)
Lexx (TV series)
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
In John Varley's _Steel Beach_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1108>
there is the First Latitudinarian Church of Celebrity Saints (pronounced
"Flacks"). Their leaders[1] are kept in TV sets. Obviously, these are
CRT, not OLED sets. Even so, there's not a lot of room, so the torsos
and other useless bits are not included.
Even those in the hierarchy who haven't been so honored walk around[2]
with their skulls enclosed in what are at least mock-ups of TV sets.
[1] I suppose that they're the heads of the church.
[2] Obviously, only those who haven't received the dubious honor are
able to walk around.
This being SF, do the people "so honored" contribute?
That is to say, are we talking talking heads?
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-30 15:13:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
Futuruama, where heads in jars are commonplace.
In John Varley's _Steel Beach_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1108>
there is the First Latitudinarian Church of Celebrity Saints (pronounced
"Flacks"). Their leaders[1] are kept in TV sets. Obviously, these are
CRT, not OLED sets. Even so, there's not a lot of room, so the torsos
and other useless bits are not included.
Even those in the hierarchy who haven't been so honored walk around[2]
with their skulls enclosed in what are at least mock-ups of TV sets.
[1] I suppose that they're the heads of the church.
[2] Obviously, only those who haven't received the dubious honor are
able to walk around.
This being SF, do the people "so honored" contribute?
That is to say, are we talking talking heads?
They sure do, although the most that we see of them doing this (as I
recall) is complaining when Hildy deprives them of their television.
Yes, the heads in TV sets watch TV.


--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 82:1-4
Paul S Person
2021-05-29 17:02:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 28 May 2021 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
The only film I can remember with that sort of premise is one of the
Worst Movies Ever Made: specifically, "They Saved Hitler's Brain".
It's more recent than that. I think it was billed as a "AI/human
romance" film, of which I have seen several, none of them all that
memorable either.

Note: this is in response to the description of "Ubik", where
Post by Quadibloc
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
and had nothing to do with detached heads.

But speaking of which, I didn't see a reference to /The Brain That
Wouldn't Die/ elsewhere. But perhaps that is a film everybody would
rather forget.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Bice
2021-06-01 16:52:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.

Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.

-- Bob
Scott Lurndal
2021-06-01 17:31:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
There's a list of dark star references here:

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/darkstar.html
Bice
2021-06-02 11:18:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
http://artsites.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/darkstar.html
That's a page of info about the Grateful Dead song Dark Star. The
only reference to the movie is in a list of "Books, films, and songs
using Dark Star in their titles".

-- Bob
Scott Lurndal
2021-06-02 14:18:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bice
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
http://artsites.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/darkstar.html
That's a page of info about the Grateful Dead song Dark Star.
Indeed. Sonic ice cream.
Ted Nolan
2021-06-01 17:42:47 UTC
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Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
Talk to the bomb. You have to talk to it, Doolittle. Teach
it PHENOMENOLOGY.
Bice
2021-06-02 11:21:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
Talk to the bomb. You have to talk to it, Doolittle. Teach
it PHENOMENOLOGY.
Doolittle: What concrete evidence do you have that you exist?

Bomb #20: Hmmmm... well... I think, therefore I am.

Doolittle: That's good. That's very good. But how do you know that
anything else exists?

Bomb #20: My sensory apparatus reveals it to me. This is fun!
Paul S Person
2021-06-02 16:00:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
Talk to the bomb. You have to talk to it, Doolittle. Teach
it PHENOMENOLOGY.
And that works /so/ well!
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Ted Nolan
2021-06-02 16:37:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ted Nolan
Post by Bice
On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:47:39 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 27 May 2021 17:07:58 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In PKD's _Ubik_
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948>
they freeze (or otherwise preserve) you, so that your loved ones, or
your employees, can come and talk to you.
There was a film that did something like that, but it's been a while
and it wasn't all that memorable, so I don't recall the title.
It had an interesting twist at the end. Well, it was supposed to be
interesting, anyway.
Might be the movie "Dark Star". It's about a ship that goes around
dropping bombs into unstable stars. One of the bombs gets stuck in
the bomb bay and continues to count down, so the crew go and ask
advice from their commander who was frozen after a fatal accident
years earlier.
Goofy, low budget dark comedy. An early film of John Carpenter and
Dan O'Bannon. I liked it enough to buy it on VHS and later upgrade it
to DVD.
Talk to the bomb. You have to talk to it, Doolittle. Teach
it PHENOMENOLOGY.
And that works /so/ well!
You are false data.
Quadibloc
2021-06-02 18:39:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ted Nolan
Talk to the bomb. You have to talk to it, Doolittle. Teach
it PHENOMENOLOGY.
And that works /so/ well!
You are false data.
And now, in U.S. politics, we are seeing that the movie Dark Star was
eerily prophetic.

John Savard

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