Discussion:
Childhood's End disclaimer
Add Reply
Charles Packer
2020-05-07 08:03:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."

http://cpacker.org
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-07 08:47:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
It's a joke, Joyce!

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-07 09:23:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
It sounds like characters in the book give opinions with which
the author disagrees. If I ever write a story with Hitler in
it, that may occur.

Lewis Carroll, in the preface to a realistic story sequel
with fairies - _Sylvie and Bruno Concluded_ - wrote (referring
to part one), "I do not hold myself responsible for any of the
opinions expressed by the characters in my book. They are
simply opinions which, it seemed to me, might probably be held
by the persons into whose mouths I put them, and which were
worth consideration." He does discuss some of the issues
later in the preface.

_Sylvie and Bruno_
<http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/48630>
_Sylvie and Bruno Concluded_
<http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/48795>
(illustrated versions)
Ross Presser
2020-05-07 13:00:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
This review
http://childhoodsendshu.weebly.com/analysis.html

suggests that Clarke wanted to stress that he didn't think humans
should stay on Earth babysat by Overlords, but should make their
own way into the universe.
b***@dontspam.silent.com
2020-05-07 21:32:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
Clarke himself explains it thus:

When Childhood’s End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that “The opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.” This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said, “The stars are not for
Man,” and I did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.

Today, I would like to change the target of that disclaimer to
cover 99 percent of the “paranormal” (it can’t all be nonsense) and
100 percent of UFO “encounters.”
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-07 23:43:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
When Childhood’s End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that “The opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.” This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said, “The stars are not for
Man,” and I did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.
Today, I would like to change the target of that disclaimer to
cover 99 percent of the “paranormal” (it can’t all be nonsense) and
100 percent of UFO “encounters.”
I attended a series of lectures once, one of whose speakers was
Clarke. At some point, someone asked him, "Do you believe in
UFOs?" and he replied, "No, I don't, and if you'd seen as many of
them as I have, you wouldn't either."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 00:01:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
When Childhood? End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that ?he opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.?This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said, ?he stars are not for
Man,?and I did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.
Today, I would like to change the target of that disclaimer to
cover 99 percent of the ?aranormal?(it can? all be nonsense) and
100 percent of UFO ?ncounters.?
I attended a series of lectures once, one of whose speakers was
Clarke. At some point, someone asked him, "Do you believe in
UFOs?" and he replied, "No, I don't, and if you'd seen as many of
them as I have, you wouldn't either."
I can understand that viewpoint. I believe I've mentioned before my
clearly identified UFO story.
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 00:31:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
When Childhood? End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that ?he opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.?This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said, ?he stars are not for
Man,?and I did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.
Today, I would like to change the target of that disclaimer to
cover 99 percent of the ?aranormal?(it can? all be nonsense) and
100 percent of UFO ?ncounters.?
I attended a series of lectures once, one of whose speakers was
Clarke. At some point, someone asked him, "Do you believe in
UFOs?" and he replied, "No, I don't, and if you'd seen as many of
them as I have, you wouldn't either."
I can understand that viewpoint. I believe I've mentioned before my
clearly identified UFO story.
And I know I've described my favorite UFO, the one that after a
while said "GOODYEAR".
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 01:08:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Charles Packer
In researching Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" I learn that
the author published it with a disclaimer "The opinions expressed
in this book are not those of the author". What's going on? Was
Clarke hired or asked to write it? I understand that it was
a continuation of a short story, "Guardian Angel."
http://cpacker.org
When Childhood? End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that ?he opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.?This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said, ?he stars are not for
Man,?and I did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.
Today, I would like to change the target of that disclaimer to
cover 99 percent of the ?aranormal?(it can? all be nonsense) and
100 percent of UFO ?ncounters.?
I attended a series of lectures once, one of whose speakers was
Clarke. At some point, someone asked him, "Do you believe in
UFOs?" and he replied, "No, I don't, and if you'd seen as many of
them as I have, you wouldn't either."
I can understand that viewpoint. I believe I've mentioned before my
clearly identified UFO story.
And I know I've described my favorite UFO, the one that after a
while said "GOODYEAR".
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Charles Packer
2020-05-08 07:48:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?

http://cpacker.org
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 10:12:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
More tricks of lighting, distance, haze, and poor photography.

"Unidentified" means just that, not "identified as being of
extraterrestrial origin". And usually the reason it is unidentified
is that the photo is so bad that no viewer could identify the subject
even if it was his or her own mother.
Thomas Koenig
2020-05-08 10:33:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
Of course not.

Their base of operations on Earth is Bielefeld.
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 18:19:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.

Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 20:13:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there,
particularly when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli,
and Lowell after him, saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was
there were craters in something resembling a row; and their minds
drew lines between one crater rim and the next.

As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-08 20:38:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
Hee hee hee.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Charles Packer
2020-05-09 10:21:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there, particularly
when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli, and Lowell after him,
saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was there were craters in something
resembling a row; and their minds drew lines between one crater rim and
the next.
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an intelligent
mind. The only question was which end of the telescope the mind was
on."
There's one hypothesis that doesn't need to be squared with the
laws of physics: UFO stories were fiction in the first place,
starting with that ur-event, the Arnold sighting of 1947.
The products entirely of the minds of writers.
This is what I've concluded upon studying the newspaper
databases that are available now, enabling a close look at the
larger context. Before the internet, access to the public sphere was
controlled by writers, so said hypothesis wouldn't see the light
of day. By the time the internet came along, the events in
question were too far in the past to interest its mostly young
non-writers.

http://cpacker.org
Paul S Person
2020-05-09 17:36:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there,
particularly when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli,
and Lowell after him, saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was
there were craters in something resembling a row; and their minds
drew lines between one crater rim and the next.
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
And yet, IIRC, our valiant rovers have discovered evidence of
(ancient) water flows and (perhaps) existant water (subsoil ice).
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-09 18:25:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there,
particularly when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli,
and Lowell after him, saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was
there were craters in something resembling a row; and their minds
drew lines between one crater rim and the next.
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
And yet, IIRC, our valiant rovers have discovered evidence of
(ancient) water flows and (perhaps) existant water (subsoil ice).
That's much different from there being visible canals now.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2020-05-09 18:29:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there,
particularly when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli,
and Lowell after him, saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was
there were craters in something resembling a row; and their minds
drew lines between one crater rim and the next.
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
And yet, IIRC, our valiant rovers have discovered evidence of
(ancient) water flows and (perhaps) existant water (subsoil ice).
That's much different from there being visible canals now.
I don't think anyone's mentioned yet that the italian "canali" translates to
"channels" not "canals", by the way. Minor difference, less intelligent intent
expected.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product
being sold.
-- blue_beetle
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-09 21:24:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
People's minds do that. We see things that aren't there,
particularly when they make patterns. That's why Schiaparelli,
and Lowell after him, saw _canali_/canals on Mars. What was
there were craters in something resembling a row; and their minds
drew lines between one crater rim and the next.
As Sagan put it in _Cosmos_, "The canals were the work of an
intelligent mind. The only question was which end of the
telescope the mind was on."
And yet, IIRC, our valiant rovers have discovered evidence of
(ancient) water flows and (perhaps) existant water (subsoil ice).
Yes. But they were all dried up *long* before anyone on Earth
had a telescope through which to look at them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
a***@msn.com
2020-05-08 21:48:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
--
I had something similar occur. On a weekend in early July, I was reading by a big window. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a huge spaceship, with circles of colored lights on its side, turning from edge-on to face-on. A moment passed, and I realized it was a fireworks display in a nearby field - probably of the peony type.
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 22:26:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a***@msn.com
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
--
I had something similar occur. On a weekend in early July, I was
reading by a big window. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a huge
spaceship, with circles of colored lights on its side, turning from
edge-on to face-on. A moment passed, and I realized it was a fireworks
display in a nearby field - probably of the peony type.
That's a good one.

I also remember a largish bolide -- I dunno how large the object
was, but it left a deep turquoise-blue streak across the sky,
about half a degree wide (the width of a full moon), going south
to north across the Bay Area. It was beautiful. Coincidentally,
that was the same night CE3K opened in theatres. I don't recall
anyone making the connection in the media.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Juho Julkunen
2020-05-08 22:34:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, psperson1
@ix.netcom.invalid says...
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Charles Packer
Post by J. Clarke
Now that's a good one. Mine was a DC-9 leaving Hartford-Springfield.
Do I detect a consensus that UFOs are works of the imagination?
http://cpacker.org
And/or the mind's tendency to complete figures based on clues.
Like mine -- a perfect circle with three lights that turned into an
airplane when it landed. I /saw/ the lights; my mind supplied the
circle.
If it happened at night it's quite understandable. The area surrounding
a bright light looks darker than the rest of the night sky, and it's
difficult to see stars near the direction of the light. It's easy to
interpret that as the silhouette of a circular object, and it's one
common culprit in UFO sightings.

My favourite is seagulls. With the wing up the white underside of the
wing and the bird's side reflect light quite well, but when the wing
comes down the grey upper surface at an angle reflects much less. In the
right circumstances near sunset or sunrise it can really look like a
pulsating light moving across the sky.
--
Juho Julkunen
Charles Packer
2020-05-10 01:47:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
When Childhood’s End first appeared, many readers were baffled by
a statement after the title page to the effect that “The opinions
expressed in this book are not those of the author.” This was not
entirely facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space, and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the Universe.
Now I had written a book which said, “The stars are not for Man,” and
I
Post by b***@dontspam.silent.com
did not want anyone to think I had suddenly recanted.
But did he ever say why he would write such a book?

http://cpacker.org
a***@msn.com
2020-05-10 02:12:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the required premise was one he didn't prefer.
Charles Packer
2020-05-10 13:59:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a***@msn.com
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no
stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the
required premise was one he didn't prefer.
I suspect something else, that he was under a contract to extend
the original short story that perhaps contained non-disclosure
provisions regarding certain plot, setting and character elements
that he was asked to include.

http://cpacker.org
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-10 14:42:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
Post by a***@msn.com
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no
stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the
required premise was one he didn't prefer.
I suspect something else, that he was under a contract to extend
the original short story that perhaps contained non-disclosure
provisions regarding certain plot, setting and character elements
that he was asked to include.
not likely
a***@msn.com
2020-05-10 15:07:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Packer
Post by a***@msn.com
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no
stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the
required premise was one he didn't prefer.
I suspect something else, that he was under a contract to extend
the original short story that perhaps contained non-disclosure
provisions regarding certain plot, setting and character elements
that he was asked to include.
Possible, but not necessary. Writers often play with premises that they don't believe in - as long as they make for a good story.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2020-05-10 21:26:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a***@msn.com
Post by Charles Packer
Post by a***@msn.com
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no
stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the
required premise was one he didn't prefer.
I suspect something else, that he was under a contract to extend
the original short story that perhaps contained non-disclosure
provisions regarding certain plot, setting and character elements
that he was asked to include.
Possible, but not necessary. Writers often play with premises that they don't believe in - as long as they make for a good story.
Yeah, we're writing entertainment, not propaganda.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
a***@msn.com
2020-05-10 21:31:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by a***@msn.com
Post by Charles Packer
Post by a***@msn.com
I suspect he had a cool notion for a story that happened to require 'no
stars for man' and decided the story was too good to waste even if the
required premise was one he didn't prefer.
I suspect something else, that he was under a contract to extend
the original short story that perhaps contained non-disclosure
provisions regarding certain plot, setting and character elements
that he was asked to include.
Possible, but not necessary. Writers often play with premises that they don't believe in - as long as they make for a good story.
Yeah, we're writing entertainment, not propaganda.
For example, to the best of my knowledge, Vernor Vinge believes that the stars are not for man - because long before we can travel interstellarly, mankind will have been replaced or become transhuman. But in spite of this, Vinge has written space opera with standard-humans exploring the stars.
Loading...