Discussion:
[OT] Bad News for Hal (and other California computer users)
(too old to reply)
Quadibloc
2021-07-27 22:02:11 UTC
Permalink
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
https://wccftech.com/dell-unable-to-fulfill-alienware-aurora-ryzen-edition-orders-in-6-us-states-eco-hazard/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/325163-alienware-claims-it-cant-sell-high-end-desktop-pcs-in-6-us-states


John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-27 22:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy
efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems. It
will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified. Thus, some
higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states. Additional
regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
And they're both Alienware gaming boxes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Magewolf
2021-07-28 01:20:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:23:48 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems. It will no longer be
enough to be Energy Star certified. Thus, some higher-end pre-built
computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold
in those states. Additional regulations will come into effect in early
December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that they won't ship
to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle at 50+ watts, which is,
frankly, ridiculous for any modern system.
And they're both Alienware gaming boxes.
I am tempted to say that anything that stops someone from wasting money
on an Alienware pc(this is a funny review of a current Alienware "gaming
system"
)is a good thing but
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:26:16 UTC
Permalink
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
That sort of thing is always possible. But I don't want to be
over-sensitive to such possibilities, on the grounds that it would
be hypocritical to accept government regulation of what other
people do, but not what I do.

Of course, what I'd really like is for them to start building nice
carbon-free nuclear power plants instead of restricting energy
use. But, of course, not on the San Andreas fault, which is a
problem given the current anti-nuclear hysteria (that is, other
states might not accept additional nuclear capacity to meet
California's energy needs).

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-07-27 22:40:57 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
https://wccftech.com/dell-unable-to-fulfill-alienware-aurora-ryzen-edition-orders-in-6-us-states-eco-hazard/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/325163-alienware-claims-it-cant-sell-high-end-desktop-pcs-in-6-us-states
http://youtu.be/QcivEGigiGg
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
What escaped my notice was that a Raspberry Pi was Hal's main or
only computer. Dorothy recently described what he did on the computer,
and it included levelling his alts, so that means he does game.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 03:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
What escaped my notice was that a Raspberry Pi was Hal's main or
only computer.
Oh, far from it. He has many many Pis and a PC that's about five
years old, plenty fast enough for LotRO.
Post by Quadibloc
Dorothy recently described what he did on the computer,
and it included levelling his alts, so that means he does game.
Yes. We both play The Lord of the Rings online, which is (please
note) fourteen years old, and not in need of a super whiz-bang
idles-at-whatever-horrid-number-it-was specialized gaming rig.

(we just logged out from doing a bunch of quests on our mains,
whereof if we do forty-five of them in a week, we get a lot of
valuable goodies.

(Valuable in the game, needless to say; can't sell it for real
money.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-27 23:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
Hal says, "Yeah I saw that." (He reads The Register every day:
they're nice, they're clean, they're British.)

He says, "I don't think it's going to affect me. They're talking
about top-of-the-line hotshot gaming computers. I don't need one
of those." My PC is eight years old now, his about five.

And as for all those zillions of Raspberry Pis, "Their energy
usage is minimal; the state will never object to them."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.

I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 03:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
Painful. About a year ago (maybe two?) LotRO did a substantial
update, and while I was able to download it all, I wasn't able to
play it, my SSD got too full. So Hal got me a new, larger one,
and we took it down to the friendly neighborhood techie who
copied the entire contents of the old one onto the new one.
Post by Quadibloc
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
Sensible.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-07-28 05:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
--
Kevin R
J. Clarke
2021-07-28 09:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
FWIW, I found out yesterday that my employer provides 5 terabytes of
OneDrive (I had previously thought it was one terabyte). Of course it
doesn't help if you don't have fast internet. And a "work from home"
job may include the computer--many companies want their employees to
have machines that the company controls.

J. Clarke
2021-07-28 09:23:04 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
My current gaming rig is about 5 years old. I'll probably be forced
to a new one eventually--Microsoft has rigged Windows 11 so it's not
supposed to run on this one. Of course Windows 10 isn't supposed to
run on my old Thinkpad but it runs fine nonetheless.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-27 23:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems.
Post by Quadibloc
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Post by Quadibloc
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
You bet.

The one thing the Pis won't do is play The Lord of the Rings
Online, having ARM processors instead X86.

And our gaming PCs are elderly, and we already have them. They
may outlast us.
Post by Quadibloc
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
And I bet they cost an arm, a leg, and several teeth.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I bet they cost an arm, a leg, and several teeth.
For _that_, I saw a Youtube video about the kind of systems another
outfit custom builds... but, yes, they're expensive.

John Savard
Dimensional Traveler
2021-07-28 00:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather in
_existing_ computers in their states. It would unenforceable. What
they are doing is not allowing sales of NEW computers that violate the
new regs.
--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather in
_existing_ computers in their states. It would unenforceable. What
they are doing is not allowing sales of NEW computers that violate the
new regs.
Um, allowing people to continue using their old computers even if they
don't follow the new rules _is_ grandfathering them. It would be unenforceable
to try _not_ to grandfather them.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:15:39 UTC
Permalink
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.

I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-07-28 08:57:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by computing
exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be gamers driving
it. It is going to be massive server farms supporting cloud
computing. And they haven't done squat about that.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 03:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I've now found this video,



which carefully reviews the details of these regulations, and
notes that the limits are reasonable for the reason you mention,
urging a balanced view instead of needless panic.

John Savard
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