Discussion:
[OT] Bad News for Hal (and other California computer users)
(too old to reply)
Quadibloc
2021-07-27 22:02:11 UTC
Permalink
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
https://wccftech.com/dell-unable-to-fulfill-alienware-aurora-ryzen-edition-orders-in-6-us-states-eco-hazard/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/325163-alienware-claims-it-cant-sell-high-end-desktop-pcs-in-6-us-states
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcivEGigiGg

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-27 22:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy
efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems. It
will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified. Thus, some
higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states. Additional
regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
And they're both Alienware gaming boxes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Magewolf
2021-07-28 01:20:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:23:48 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems. It will no longer be
enough to be Energy Star certified. Thus, some higher-end pre-built
computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold
in those states. Additional regulations will come into effect in early
December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that they won't ship
to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle at 50+ watts, which is,
frankly, ridiculous for any modern system.
And they're both Alienware gaming boxes.
I am tempted to say that anything that stops someone from wasting money
on an Alienware pc(this is a funny review of a current Alienware "gaming
system" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ulhFi5N2hc )is a good thing but
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:26:16 UTC
Permalink
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
That sort of thing is always possible. But I don't want to be
over-sensitive to such possibilities, on the grounds that it would
be hypocritical to accept government regulation of what other
people do, but not what I do.

Of course, what I'd really like is for them to start building nice
carbon-free nuclear power plants instead of restricting energy
use. But, of course, not on the San Andreas fault, which is a
problem given the current anti-nuclear hysteria (that is, other
states might not accept additional nuclear capacity to meet
California's energy needs).

John Savard
Paul S Person
2021-07-28 16:54:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
That sort of thing is always possible. But I don't want to be
over-sensitive to such possibilities, on the grounds that it would
be hypocritical to accept government regulation of what other
people do, but not what I do.
Of course, what I'd really like is for them to start building nice
carbon-free nuclear power plants instead of restricting energy
use. But, of course, not on the San Andreas fault, which is a
problem given the current anti-nuclear hysteria (that is, other
states might not accept additional nuclear capacity to meet
California's energy needs).
If I can believe my eyes, Everett will be getting a /fusion/ power
plant ... or, at least, a building intended to hold one:
<https://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/clean-energy-power-plant-new-fusion-technology-breaks-ground-everett-helion-shell-energy/281-f87735b7-35c1-4740-ad47-a84cbdb911d8>
and some new, presumably well-paying, jobs.

Whether it ever actually generates power, and how long it takes,
remains to be seen.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 17:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails
to have any real effect will they start outlawing any power
supply over 400 watts?
That sort of thing is always possible. But I don't want to be
over-sensitive to such possibilities, on the grounds that it
would be hypocritical to accept government regulation of what
other people do, but not what I do.
Of course, what I'd really like is for them to start building
nice carbon-free nuclear power plants instead of restricting
energy use. But, of course, not on the San Andreas fault, which
is a problem given the current anti-nuclear hysteria (that is,
other states might not accept additional nuclear capacity to
meet California's energy needs).
If I can believe my eyes, Everett will be getting a /fusion/
<https://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/clean-ene
rgy-power-plant-new-fusion-technology-breaks-ground-everett-helio
n-shell-energy/281-f87735b7-35c1-4740-ad47-a84cbdb911d8> and
some new, presumably well-paying, jobs.
Whether it ever actually generates power, and how long it takes,
remains to be seen.
Fusion power has only been 20 years away for 50 years now. But
whether or not it ever generates power, and whether or not the
people behind it ever *expect* it to, is not the point. Like the
bridge to nowhere, and the high speed rail between LA and Vegas,
it's about union jobs in exchange for union votes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Scott Lurndal
2021-07-28 17:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it could just be the tip of a "stupid" iceberg. If this fails to have
any real effect will they start outlawing any power supply over 400
watts?
That sort of thing is always possible. But I don't want to be
over-sensitive to such possibilities, on the grounds that it would
be hypocritical to accept government regulation of what other
people do, but not what I do.
Of course, what I'd really like is for them to start building nice
carbon-free nuclear power plants instead of restricting energy
use. But, of course, not on the San Andreas fault, which is a
problem given the current anti-nuclear hysteria (that is, other
states might not accept additional nuclear capacity to meet
California's energy needs).
If I can believe my eyes, Everett will be getting a /fusion/ power
<https://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/clean-energy-power-plant-new-fusion-technology-breaks-ground-everett-helion-shell-energy/281-f87735b7-35c1-4740-ad47-a84cbdb911d8>
and some new, presumably well-paying, jobs.
Whether it ever actually generates power, and how long it takes,
remains to be seen.
https://www.helionenergy.com/faq/

Our (Helion) approach does three major things differently from other fusion approaches:

1) We utilize a pulsed fusion system. This helps us overcome the hardest physics
challenges, keeps our fusion device smaller than other approaches, and allows
us to adjust the power output based on need.

2) Our system is built to directly recover electricity. Just like regenerative
braking in an electric car, our system is built to recover all unused and
new electromagnetic energy efficiently. Other fusion systems heat water to
create steam to turn a turbine which loses a lot of energy in the process.

3) We use deuterium and helium-3 (D-³He) as fuel. Helium-3 is a cleaner,
higher octane fuel. This helps keep our system small and efficient.

Time will tell. Kudos if they make it work at greater than break-even.
J. Clarke
2021-07-27 22:40:57 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
https://wccftech.com/dell-unable-to-fulfill-alienware-aurora-ryzen-edition-orders-in-6-us-states-eco-hazard/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/325163-alienware-claims-it-cant-sell-high-end-desktop-pcs-in-6-us-states
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcivEGigiGg
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
What escaped my notice was that a Raspberry Pi was Hal's main or
only computer. Dorothy recently described what he did on the computer,
and it included levelling his alts, so that means he does game.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 03:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Why would this be bad news for Hal? It seems to have escaped your
notice that a Raspberry Pi is not a "high end desktop". And of course
the solution to this problem if you need significant computing power
is to buy low end servers instead.
What escaped my notice was that a Raspberry Pi was Hal's main or
only computer.
Oh, far from it. He has many many Pis and a PC that's about five
years old, plenty fast enough for LotRO.
Post by Quadibloc
Dorothy recently described what he did on the computer,
and it included levelling his alts, so that means he does game.
Yes. We both play The Lord of the Rings online, which is (please
note) fourteen years old, and not in need of a super whiz-bang
idles-at-whatever-horrid-number-it-was specialized gaming rig.

(we just logged out from doing a bunch of quests on our mains,
whereof if we do forty-five of them in a week, we get a lot of
valuable goodies.

(Valuable in the game, needless to say; can't sell it for real
money.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-27 23:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
Hal says, "Yeah I saw that." (He reads The Register every day:
they're nice, they're clean, they're British.)

He says, "I don't think it's going to affect me. They're talking
about top-of-the-line hotshot gaming computers. I don't need one
of those." My PC is eight years old now, his about five.

And as for all those zillions of Raspberry Pis, "Their energy
usage is minimal; the state will never object to them."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.

I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 03:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
Painful. About a year ago (maybe two?) LotRO did a substantial
update, and while I was able to download it all, I wasn't able to
play it, my SSD got too full. So Hal got me a new, larger one,
and we took it down to the friendly neighborhood techie who
copied the entire contents of the old one onto the new one.
Post by Quadibloc
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
Sensible.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-07-28 05:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
--
Kevin R
J. Clarke
2021-07-28 09:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
FWIW, I found out yesterday that my employer provides 5 terabytes of
OneDrive (I had previously thought it was one terabyte). Of course it
doesn't help if you don't have fast internet. And a "work from home"
job may include the computer--many companies want their employees to
have machines that the company controls.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 14:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and
applications
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
FWIW, I found out yesterday that my employer provides 5 terabytes of
OneDrive (I had previously thought it was one terabyte). Of course it
doesn't help if you don't have fast internet. And a "work from home"
job may include the computer--many companies want their employees to
have machines that the company controls.
My son-in-law has been working from home since, I *think*,
slightly before Governor Newsom invoked the lockdown. I remember
his going in one day saying he would be home late--and he was--
helping set up facilities for WFH for practically everybody in
the shop. Yesterday, he spent another long day on-site fixing
... something. I can ask him when he gets up and comes
downstairs--or maybe he told Hal just what he was going to do.

(N.B. I can't go upstairs and ask him; it's a flight of 17 steps
and I can't climb it any more.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-07-28 17:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
I may need to upgrade soon, if I snag a "work at home" job.
My ISP is going to put fiber-optic cable in my town, so I am
thinking of switching from DSL. I can justify all that if "it's for
work." I recently bought a 1 TB Seagate external drive so I can
backup everything prior to getting a new (or "new to me") machine
up and running. I've already transferred 40GB of media files from
my laptop and from some cloud locations to the external drive.
I have some others on USB sticks. It's nice not to be bumping
up against drive capacity!
FWIW, I found out yesterday that my employer provides 5 terabytes of
OneDrive (I had previously thought it was one terabyte). Of course it
doesn't help if you don't have fast internet. And a "work from home"
job may include the computer--many companies want their employees to
have machines that the company controls.
We had remote CSRs at my old job who used company equipment.
When a bad winter storm was predicted we'd distribute company
laptops to employees who were willing to temporarily work from home,
also. That would have kept the department running during the pandemic,
had the location in our state not been shut down at the end of 2019.
I was never eligible to work from home, because I had permissions
on some accounts that the company wouldn't allow to be used remotely.
There had to be a supervisor onsite to execute those functions the home
reps couldn't access, which meant me, or, theoretically, my supv - if he
could even remember how to do it!

I've seen some WFH job listings where hardware requirements were
listed, and others where it was explicitly stated that equipment would
be provided. I think I'd be more comfortable working on the company's
laptop and keeping my own data on my own machine.

--
Kevin R

J. Clarke
2021-07-28 09:23:04 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
My current gaming rig is about 5 years old. I'll probably be forced
to a new one eventually--Microsoft has rigged Windows 11 so it's not
supposed to run on this one. Of course Windows 10 isn't supposed to
run on my old Thinkpad but it runs fine nonetheless.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-28 14:20:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
My PC is eight years old now, his about five.
I had been using a five-year-old PC myself until a year or two ago; about
a year after I built my current system, I finally switched over to it for
daily use (it's always a pain to change systems, one's files and applications
are on the old one) when the hard drive on the old one started filling up.
I still have the old one close to hand for occasional use.
My current gaming rig is about 5 years old. I'll probably be forced
to a new one eventually--Microsoft has rigged Windows 11 so it's not
supposed to run on this one. Of course Windows 10 isn't supposed to
run on my old Thinkpad but it runs fine nonetheless.
Aw, do you have a Thinkpad? I had one once and I loved it. But
its power supply died and we had to get me a PC (not the one I
have now).
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-27 23:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or
usage standards for desktop computer systems.
Post by Quadibloc
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to
buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Post by Quadibloc
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
You bet.

The one thing the Pis won't do is play The Lord of the Rings
Online, having ARM processors instead X86.

And our gaming PCs are elderly, and we already have them. They
may outlast us.
Post by Quadibloc
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
And I bet they cost an arm, a leg, and several teeth.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I bet they cost an arm, a leg, and several teeth.
For _that_, I saw a Youtube video about the kind of systems another
outfit custom builds... but, yes, they're expensive.

John Savard
Dimensional Traveler
2021-07-28 00:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
California, along with Colorado, Hawai'i, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state, have passed new laws mandating energy efficiency or usage standards for desktop computer systems.
It will no longer be enough to be Energy Star certified.
Thus, some higher-end pre-built computer systems may not be shipped to buyers in those states, or sold in those states.
Additional regulations will come into effect in early December.
That's not bad news for Hal, his Raspberry Pi systems should
comfortably fall under the new limits.
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather in
_existing_ computers in their states. It would unenforceable. What
they are doing is not allowing sales of NEW computers that violate the
new regs.
--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather in
_existing_ computers in their states. It would unenforceable. What
they are doing is not allowing sales of NEW computers that violate the
new regs.
Um, allowing people to continue using their old computers even if they
don't follow the new rules _is_ grandfathering them. It would be unenforceable
to try _not_ to grandfather them.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:20:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 6:39:32 PM UTC-6, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather
in _existing_ computers in their states. It would
unenforceable. What they are doing is not allowing sales of NEW
computers that violate the new regs.
Um, allowing people to continue using their old computers even
if they don't follow the new rules _is_ grandfathering them. It
would be unenforceable to try _not_ to grandfather them.
Any what are you smoking to conclue that would even slow down
California's legislature from trying to do so? Give it a couple of
years, and they'll be allowing no knock warrants in the middle of the
night based on your smart meter reporting your electricity usage as
suspicious.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 16:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Any what are you smoking to conclue that would even slow down
California's legislature from trying to do so?
I can truthfully report that I have not taken advantage of the
fact that it is genuinely legal to smoke that stuff in Canada...

I like my brain waves mathematically perfect.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:57:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, July 28, 2021 at 10:20:22 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Any what are you smoking to conclue that would even slow down
California's legislature from trying to do so?
I can truthfully report that I have not taken advantage of the
fact that it is genuinely legal to smoke that stuff in Canada...
I like my brain waves mathematically perfect.
And yet, you come up with the stupidest, craziest shit.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:20:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:22:14 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 6:39:32 PM UTC-6, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I would be VERY surprised if the new regs tried to grandfather
in _existing_ computers in their states. It would
unenforceable. What they are doing is not allowing sales of
NEW computers that violate the new regs.
Um, allowing people to continue using their old computers even
if they don't follow the new rules _is_ grandfathering them. It
would be unenforceable to try _not_ to grandfather them.
This is a ban on sale, not a ban on possession.
So far.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 01:15:39 UTC
Permalink
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.

I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-07-28 08:57:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by computing
exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be gamers driving
it. It is going to be massive server farms supporting cloud
computing. And they haven't done squat about that.
Robert Carnegie
2021-07-28 11:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by computing
exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be gamers driving
it. It is going to be massive server farms supporting cloud
computing. And they haven't done squat about that.
I expect that a "server farm" closely watches its
electricity bill - and its air conditioning bill - and
uses very energy efficient computers.
Bill Gill
2021-07-28 13:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by computing
exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be gamers driving
it. It is going to be massive server farms supporting cloud
computing. And they haven't done squat about that.
I expect that a "server farm" closely watches its
electricity bill - and its air conditioning bill - and
uses very energy efficient computers.
Here in NE Oklahoma the Google server farm is big into alternative
energy.

Bill
Thomas Koenig
2021-07-28 17:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
Here in NE Oklahoma the Google server farm is big into alternative
energy.
Good for them!
Do they shut down when there is neither sunlight nor wind?

Or how do they store the energy for these periods, and for
how long?
Scott Lurndal
2021-07-28 13:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not onerous,
but only deal with frivolous failures to design machines in a responsible
manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by computing
exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be gamers driving
it. It is going to be massive server farms supporting cloud
computing. And they haven't done squat about that.
They haven't needed to. The cloud providers are very, very, very
conscious of power usage by every machine (and the supporting
infrastructure, such as cooling, which is a big part of the
energy cost for such server farms). They do have to pay
for it, after all.

As a processor designer, our company is constantly striving to
reduce power (idle and otherwise), and all the server manufacturers
likewise.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal
it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I certainly understand that the free market system cannot by
itself account for externalities, and so I have no objection in
principle to government regulation for such reasons.
I am glad to hear that the regulations in question are not
onerous, but only deal with frivolous failures to design
machines in a responsible manner for energy consumption.
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by
computing exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be
gamers driving it. It is going to be massive server farms
supporting cloud computing. And they haven't done squat about
that.
Passing laws that will have a seriously negative effect on a major
state industry would be very poor virtue signaling.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 16:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by
computing exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be
gamers driving it. It is going to be massive server farms
supporting cloud computing. And they haven't done squat about
that.
Passing laws that will have a seriously negative effect on a major
state industry would be very poor virtue signaling.
It would be very poor public policy. It would be simply splendid
virtue signaling.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:57:47 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, July 28, 2021 at 10:21:47 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by
computing exceeds total energy production, it is not going to
be gamers driving it. It is going to be massive server farms
supporting cloud computing. And they haven't done squat about
that.
Passing laws that will have a seriously negative effect on a
major state industry would be very poor virtue signaling.
It would be very poor public policy. It would be simply splendid
virtue signaling.
Not when it's an industry with enough political clout to get you un-
elected. And make no mistake, Silicon Valley has that kind of
political clout.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Thomas Koenig
2021-07-28 17:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
They are stupidly concieved. If the energy consumed by
computing exceeds total energy production, it is not going to be
gamers driving it. It is going to be massive server farms
supporting cloud computing. And they haven't done squat about
that.
Passing laws that will have a seriously negative effect on a major
state industry would be very poor virtue signaling.
It would be very poor public policy. It would be simply splendid
virtue signaling.
Look at what Germany is doing to its automotive industry.
Quadibloc
2021-07-28 03:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I've now found this video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5fc5ZX6Kzk

which carefully reviews the details of these regulations, and
notes that the limits are reasonable for the reason you mention,
urging a balanced view instead of needless panic.

John Savard
Scott Lurndal
2021-07-28 13:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I've now found this video,

which carefully reviews the details of these regulations, and
notes that the limits are reasonable for the reason you mention,
urging a balanced view instead of needless panic.
Let that be a lesson, then. Research first, Research second,
Post third...
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-07-28 16:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Quadibloc
Dell has two (count them) of their hundred systems that
they won't ship to Ca, and it's mainly because they idle
at 50+ watts, which is, frankly, ridiculous for any modern
system.
I've now found this video,
http://youtu.be/N5fc5ZX6Kzk
which carefully reviews the details of these regulations, and
notes that the limits are reasonable for the reason you mention,
urging a balanced view instead of needless panic.
Let that be a lesson, then. Research first, Research second,
Post third...
Yeah, that's gonna happen with Quaddie.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
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