Discussion:
OT: Is the coronavirus being used to increase government size and power?
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a***@gmail.com
2020-03-25 21:23:14 UTC
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Goverments are exerting their authority to control the coronavirus. But is it worth destroying economy and society to slow the spread of the virus? Once the travel and gathering restrictions are lifted, will the virus resurge?

Is the government using the virus as an excuse to increase their size and power? Instituting mass surveillance, involuntary detention, export restrictions, and travel restrictions.

Abhinav Lal

"I want to die a free man"
Robert Carnegie
2020-03-25 21:55:25 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
Goverments are exerting their authority to control the coronavirus. But is it worth destroying economy and society to slow the spread of the virus? Once the travel and gathering restrictions are lifted, will the virus resurge?
Yes.

A proportion of people who get it need to be in
hospital on an oxygen machine to survive. This
works pretty well, but there aren't enough of
these machines for everyone to use them at once,
so many lives are saved just by making you wait
your turn to get the virus when hospital equipment
is available.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Is the government using the virus as an excuse to increase their size and power? Instituting mass surveillance, involuntary detention, export restrictions, and travel restrictions.
This really needs watching.

<https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/03/24/trump-agencies-steadily-push-rollbacks-as-pandemic-rages/>
J. Clarke
2020-03-25 23:32:35 UTC
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On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a***@gmail.com
Goverments are exerting their authority to control the coronavirus. But is it worth destroying economy and society to slow the spread of the virus? Once the travel and gathering restrictions are lifted, will the virus resurge?
Yes.
A proportion of people who get it need to be in
hospital on an oxygen machine to survive. This
works pretty well, but there aren't enough of
these machines for everyone to use them at once,
so many lives are saved just by making you wait
your turn to get the virus when hospital equipment
is available.
But people will die because of the restrictions.

Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a***@gmail.com
Is the government using the virus as an excuse to increase their size and power? Instituting mass surveillance, involuntary detention, export restrictions, and travel restrictions.
This really needs watching.
<https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/03/24/trump-agencies-steadily-push-rollbacks-as-pandemic-rages/>
a***@gmail.com
2020-03-26 01:40:17 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a***@gmail.com
Goverments are exerting their authority to control the coronavirus. But is it worth destroying economy and society to slow the spread of the virus? Once the travel and gathering restrictions are lifted, will the virus resurge?
Yes.
A proportion of people who get it need to be in
hospital on an oxygen machine to survive. This
works pretty well, but there aren't enough of
these machines for everyone to use them at once,
so many lives are saved just by making you wait
your turn to get the virus when hospital equipment
is available.
But people will die because of the restrictions.
I have been unable to eat breakfast because those restaurants that are open early, are all closed, and I am too sick to cook. I blame Modi, and I hope he starves too. He also continues to fail to protect my mind and body from being violated. As the PM, he is ultimately responsible.

Abhinav Lal

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a***@gmail.com
Is the government using the virus as an excuse to increase their size and power? Instituting mass surveillance, involuntary detention, export restrictions, and travel restrictions.
This really needs watching.
<https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/03/24/trump-agencies-steadily-push-rollbacks-as-pandemic-rages/>
Kevrob
2020-03-26 03:12:23 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-03-26 04:05:54 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
h***@gmail.com
2020-03-26 05:52:18 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a regular poster to the newsgroup, and yes, iirc, he's homeless
Moriarty
2020-03-26 05:55:11 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.

-Moriarty
Kevrob
2020-03-26 13:16:56 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this
group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless
sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.
I don't think I've ever met Joe, though I may have without being
introduced. We have ties to Milwaukee, and were both booksellers
at the same location, though at different times and for different
stores. We have friends and ex-co-workers in common, such as SF
author Midori Snyder. Joe also worked for Chicago's "The Stars My
Destination." If he ever manned the counter at the old Webster's
Books Mystery/SF annex on Milwaukee's Downer Ave I probably bought
OP paperbacks from him! Anything new I'd buy at B. Dalton, where I
was working, at that time.

I'm awaiting news that my unemployment benefits have been approved.
Given that and the recently voted on stimulus bill, I'll be able
to have a roof over my head, but if I were working I'd think about
setting up a Kickstarter for Joe, to get him a place to hole up at
least until the virus runs its course.

Would Joe's tutorials on K-Pop and K-Drama make for a way to bring
in some Patreon money?

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2020-03-26 21:21:37 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this
group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless
sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.
I don't think I've ever met Joe, though I may have without being
introduced. We have ties to Milwaukee, and were both booksellers
at the same location, though at different times and for different
stores. We have friends and ex-co-workers in common, such as SF
author Midori Snyder. Joe also worked for Chicago's "The Stars My
Destination." If he ever manned the counter at the old Webster's
Books Mystery/SF annex on Milwaukee's Downer Ave I probably bought
OP paperbacks from him! Anything new I'd buy at B. Dalton, where I
was working, at that time.
I'm awaiting news that my unemployment benefits have been approved.
Given that and the recently voted on stimulus bill, I'll be able
to have a roof over my head, but if I were working I'd think about
setting up a Kickstarter for Joe, to get him a place to hole up at
least until the virus runs its course.
Would Joe's tutorials on K-Pop and K-Drama make for a way to bring
in some Patreon money?
I'd consider helping, though there must be reasons
that hasn't happened much before this crisis - and I'm
not in the U.S. nor intending to be. But if we can't
access Joe Bernstein, or he can't access us, how do
you get any help to him? I think he mentioned libraries.
Probably not at the moment. I should have pull there
but I don't.

I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
J. Clarke
2020-03-26 21:30:02 UTC
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On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Kevrob
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this
group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless
sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.
I don't think I've ever met Joe, though I may have without being
introduced. We have ties to Milwaukee, and were both booksellers
at the same location, though at different times and for different
stores. We have friends and ex-co-workers in common, such as SF
author Midori Snyder. Joe also worked for Chicago's "The Stars My
Destination." If he ever manned the counter at the old Webster's
Books Mystery/SF annex on Milwaukee's Downer Ave I probably bought
OP paperbacks from him! Anything new I'd buy at B. Dalton, where I
was working, at that time.
I'm awaiting news that my unemployment benefits have been approved.
Given that and the recently voted on stimulus bill, I'll be able
to have a roof over my head, but if I were working I'd think about
setting up a Kickstarter for Joe, to get him a place to hole up at
least until the virus runs its course.
Would Joe's tutorials on K-Pop and K-Drama make for a way to bring
in some Patreon money?
I'd consider helping, though there must be reasons
that hasn't happened much before this crisis - and I'm
not in the U.S. nor intending to be. But if we can't
access Joe Bernstein, or he can't access us, how do
you get any help to him? I think he mentioned libraries.
Probably not at the moment. I should have pull there
but I don't.
I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
That's actually a good though though. He seems to have a remarkable
store of esoteric knowledge--there should be some way to monetize it.
But I have more talent at de-monetizing things than monetizing them,
so I got no clue how to go about it.
Kevrob
2020-03-26 22:05:19 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
The shelters don't allow for much in the way of "social
distancing," and people in high-risk demographics make up
a high percentage of the homeless. If Jo0e has a non-shelter
bolthole where he is by himself, that might actually be better
than being in a shelter.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/seattles-aging-and-ill-homeless-population-in-shelters-is-particularly-vulnerable-to-coronavirus/
Post by J. Clarke
That's actually a good though though. He seems to have a remarkable
store of esoteric knowledge--there should be some way to monetize it.
But I have more talent at de-monetizing things than monetizing them,
so I got no clue how to go about it.
I see no Bernstein posts since the 11th. I hope that's because
he can't get access to public WiFi or use a public computer, as
at a library, and not a sign of anything worse.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!activity/rec.arts.sf.written/PuyVUsi5AAAJ

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2020-03-27 02:43:30 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
The shelters don't allow for much in the way of "social
distancing," and people in high-risk demographics make up
a high percentage of the homeless. If Jo0e has a non-shelter
bolthole where he is by himself, that might actually be better
than being in a shelter.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/seattles-aging-and-ill-homeless-population-in-shelters-is-particularly-vulnerable-to-coronavirus/
Post by J. Clarke
That's actually a good though though. He seems to have a remarkable
store of esoteric knowledge--there should be some way to monetize it.
But I have more talent at de-monetizing things than monetizing them,
so I got no clue how to go about it.
I see no Bernstein posts since the 11th. I hope that's because
he can't get access to public WiFi or use a public computer, as
at a library, and not a sign of anything worse.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!activity/rec.arts.sf.written/PuyVUsi5AAAJ
Amen.
Robert Carnegie
2020-03-27 10:48:22 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Kevrob
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this
group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless
sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.
I don't think I've ever met Joe, though I may have without being
introduced. We have ties to Milwaukee, and were both booksellers
at the same location, though at different times and for different
stores. We have friends and ex-co-workers in common, such as SF
author Midori Snyder. Joe also worked for Chicago's "The Stars My
Destination." If he ever manned the counter at the old Webster's
Books Mystery/SF annex on Milwaukee's Downer Ave I probably bought
OP paperbacks from him! Anything new I'd buy at B. Dalton, where I
was working, at that time.
I'm awaiting news that my unemployment benefits have been approved.
Given that and the recently voted on stimulus bill, I'll be able
to have a roof over my head, but if I were working I'd think about
setting up a Kickstarter for Joe, to get him a place to hole up at
least until the virus runs its course.
Would Joe's tutorials on K-Pop and K-Drama make for a way to bring
in some Patreon money?
I'd consider helping, though there must be reasons
that hasn't happened much before this crisis - and I'm
not in the U.S. nor intending to be. But if we can't
access Joe Bernstein, or he can't access us, how do
you get any help to him? I think he mentioned libraries.
Probably not at the moment. I should have pull there
but I don't.
I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
That's actually a good though though. He seems to have a remarkable
store of esoteric knowledge--there should be some way to monetize it.
But I have more talent at de-monetizing things than monetizing them,
so I got no clue how to go about it.
I assume he'd be doing it already. A further thought
is that his neighbours in equal need are not less
deserving of help, if "deserving" is even a determining
factor.
J. Clarke
2020-03-27 11:29:01 UTC
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On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 03:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Kevrob
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
I don't think I know him. Why are you particularly concerned
about him? is he homeless, or in danger of becoming so?
He's a homeless guy from Seattle, also a long time poster to this
group. I haven't heard what's happening to the hostels the homeless
sleep in when able, but I'd imagine he's doing it tougher than most.
I don't think I've ever met Joe, though I may have without being
introduced. We have ties to Milwaukee, and were both booksellers
at the same location, though at different times and for different
stores. We have friends and ex-co-workers in common, such as SF
author Midori Snyder. Joe also worked for Chicago's "The Stars My
Destination." If he ever manned the counter at the old Webster's
Books Mystery/SF annex on Milwaukee's Downer Ave I probably bought
OP paperbacks from him! Anything new I'd buy at B. Dalton, where I
was working, at that time.
I'm awaiting news that my unemployment benefits have been approved.
Given that and the recently voted on stimulus bill, I'll be able
to have a roof over my head, but if I were working I'd think about
setting up a Kickstarter for Joe, to get him a place to hole up at
least until the virus runs its course.
Would Joe's tutorials on K-Pop and K-Drama make for a way to bring
in some Patreon money?
I'd consider helping, though there must be reasons
that hasn't happened much before this crisis - and I'm
not in the U.S. nor intending to be. But if we can't
access Joe Bernstein, or he can't access us, how do
you get any help to him? I think he mentioned libraries.
Probably not at the moment. I should have pull there
but I don't.
I mean: it's cold, so people give a homeless person
a tent. But they don't need a tent, they need a room.
That's more of an ask.
That's actually a good though though. He seems to have a remarkable
store of esoteric knowledge--there should be some way to monetize it.
But I have more talent at de-monetizing things than monetizing them,
so I got no clue how to go about it.
I assume he'd be doing it already. A further thought
is that his neighbours in equal need are not less
deserving of help, if "deserving" is even a determining
factor.
One of my takeaways from my brief career in social services is that
you have to deal with the person in front of you. Everybody deserves
help but it's not in the power of the people in this group to help
everybody in any meaningful way. But maybe we can help this one guy
if we can figure out a way to do it and, and this is _very_ important,
if he is willing to accept help. Trying to force help on somebody who
doesn't want it is usually a waste of effort.
o***@gmail.com
2020-03-27 19:08:28 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
One of my takeaways from my brief career in social services is that
you have to deal with the person in front of you. Everybody deserves
help but it's not in the power of the people in this group to help
everybody in any meaningful way. But maybe we can help this one guy
if we can figure out a way to do it and, and this is _very_ important,
if he is willing to accept help. Trying to force help on somebody who
doesn't want it is usually a waste of effort.
" For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. "

---- Norman Maclean

J. Clarke
2020-03-26 21:27:20 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Is anybody wondering where Joe Bernstein is going to sleep tonight?
I've worried about that more than a few times, since he's in
Seattle, WA, a hot spot.
It's not only that, temperature is going down into the high 30s and
low 40s at night and it's raining. I presume the shelters are open
but are they limiting admission more than they usually do? And a lot
of the people in them will come in cold and wet--I believe the usual
daytime safe-havens are mostly closed.

No time is a good time to be homeless but this is one of the less-good
ones.
h***@gmail.com
2020-03-26 05:59:20 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
Goverments are exerting their authority to control the coronavirus. But is it worth destroying economy and society to slow the spread of the virus?
The economy will take a hit but it will probably take less of a hit than if, say, 3 million people in the US or 13 million people die in India.
(taking a 1% death rate)

It's not going to destroy society but it will change it to some degree.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Once the travel and gathering restrictions are lifted, will the virus resurge?
That's a big question and a lot of it depends on how long the restrictions are kept in place for.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Is the government using the virus as an excuse to increase their size and power? Instituting mass surveillance, involuntary detention, export restrictions, and travel restrictions.
There's certainly some moves that are iffy. including suggestions of global tracking of mobiles, the USA DOJ has asked to be able to jail people indefinitely without trial during emergencies.

It's something that needs to be watched carefully, against that we do want the spread to be curtailed.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
"I want to die a free man"
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