Discussion:
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-07 22:21:36 UTC
Permalink
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
At the moment, the best numbers for the mortality rate of all
infected people for COVID-19 are around 0.37%. This is from a
study of the district of Heinzberg in Germany, which was an
infection hotspot.
Aesop is claiming 3% of the infected die. I have trouble with his math.

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/05/napkin-math-for-fktards-with-actual.html

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-07 22:30:35 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Here's hoping 9-1-1 is no joke in your town.
Maybe I'll get the reference when I've heard the soundtracks?
I'd have to check the soundfiles myself to see if there's a direct
reference, but the second-biggest-selling single on Public Enemy's album
"Fear of a Black Planet" is a Flavor Flav solo track entitled "911 is a
Joke". It discusses how in the inner city (31 years ago and
unfortunately still today), calling 911 is unlikely to get anyone any
help and likely to get /more/ people killed or injured because the cops
react badly TO THE VICTIMS, and while fire and paramedics are less
likely to shoot the victim, they're also not likely to handle the
emergency well either.
Call the cops, call a taxi, call Dominos--see who arrives first.
Titus G
2020-05-08 02:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
<snip>
Here's hoping 9-1-1 is no joke in your town.
Maybe I'll get the reference when I've heard the soundtracks?
I'd have to check the soundfiles myself to see if there's a direct
reference, but the second-biggest-selling single on Public Enemy's album
"Fear of a Black Planet" is a Flavor Flav solo track entitled "911 is a
Joke". It discusses how in the inner city (31 years ago and
unfortunately still today), calling 911 is unlikely to get anyone any
help and likely to get /more/ people killed or injured because the cops
react badly TO THE VICTIMS, and while fire and paramedics are less
likely to shoot the victim, they're also not likely to handle the
emergency well either.
Call the cops, call a taxi, call Dominos--see who arrives first.
I'd just finished the pizza when the taxi arrived. When I told the taxi
driver that I was participating in a J. Clarke experiment he called the
cops again. On the plus side, I do have internet access from this cell.
Titus G
2020-05-08 03:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
<snip>
Here's hoping 9-1-1 is no joke in your town.
Maybe I'll get the reference when I've heard the soundtracks?
I'd have to check the soundfiles myself to see if there's a direct
reference, but the second-biggest-selling single on Public Enemy's album
"Fear of a Black Planet" is a Flavor Flav solo track entitled "911 is a
Joke". It discusses how in the inner city (31 years ago and
unfortunately still today), calling 911 is unlikely to get anyone any
help and likely to get /more/ people killed or injured because the cops
react badly TO THE VICTIMS, and while fire and paramedics are less
likely to shoot the victim, they're also not likely to handle the
emergency well either.
Call the cops, call a taxi, call Dominos--see who arrives first.
I'd just finished the pizza when the taxi arrived. When I told the taxi
driver that I was participating in a J. Clarke experiment he called the
cops again. On the plus side, I do have internet access from this cell.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:37:11 UTC
Permalink
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/04/22/ag-barr-threatens-legal-ac
tion-against-governors-over-virus-lockdowns/
Looks promising, but they want an email address to read it, which
is an admission they plan to spam the living shit out me until the
heat death of the universe, if not longer. Got any less annoying
sources?
What would happen if you gave them a phony address? And/or
invented a new handle on gmail or something and never looked at
it?
I'd be playing their game.

Plus, looking at the URL data, that looks like it predates the actual
filing of any legal actions, which isn't nearly as interesting as
coverage of the actual suit.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-07 23:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/04/22/ag-barr-threatens-legal-ac
tion-against-governors-over-virus-lockdowns/
Looks promising, but they want an email address to read it, which
is an admission they plan to spam the living shit out me until the
heat death of the universe, if not longer. Got any less annoying
sources?
What would happen if you gave them a phony address? And/or
invented a new handle on gmail or something and never looked at
it?
I'd be playing their game.
Or you could simply have clicked "Next time"...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Plus, looking at the URL data, that looks like it predates the actual
filing of any legal actions, which isn't nearly as interesting as
coverage of the actual suit.
When the first excuse is shown to be bullshit...
Kevrob
2020-05-07 22:38:33 UTC
Permalink
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
My cuz is in her 70s, and we easily could have lost her.

Given that I have immediate family who live in the city proper, that
I haven't heard of anyone who has been hospitalized as of yet is good
fortune.

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-07 23:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
My cuz is in her 70s, and we easily could have lost her.
Given that I have immediate family who live in the city proper, that
I haven't heard of anyone who has been hospitalized as of yet is good
fortune.
Kevin R
Sorry to hear that. Family is family, you decide. I facecrack with
several of my first cousins.

I left out a word up there, undiagnosed. I may have had SARS-COV-2
myself. I went to an engineering conference in Feb. I came back home
and got the worst cold of my life after a couple of days. I met several
Chinese engineers at the conference and shook their hands. Sat next to
one for a day and we were talking about life the entire time. Big
mistake.

But I shook it off after a few days. I took a couple of days off from
work and none of my employees wanted to talk to me for a week as I was
still coughing and hacking. And my wife and daughter did not get it,
thank goodness.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-07 23:59:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:21:12 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
My cuz is in her 70s, and we easily could have lost her.
Given that I have immediate family who live in the city proper, that
I haven't heard of anyone who has been hospitalized as of yet is good
fortune.
Kevin R
Sorry to hear that. Family is family, you decide. I facecrack with
several of my first cousins.
I left out a word up there, undiagnosed. I may have had SARS-COV-2
myself. I went to an engineering conference in Feb. I came back home
and got the worst cold of my life after a couple of days. I met several
Chinese engineers at the conference and shook their hands. Sat next to
one for a day and we were talking about life the entire time. Big
mistake.
I'm kind of in the same boat--I have several Chinese co-workers. One
went to China on vacation and came back with a cold that he gave the
rest of us--I remember telling the boss as I was leaving Thursday that
I wouldn't be in Friday, and going home and going to bed, and the next
coherent memory I have is of waking up Sunday morning.

On the other hand, I get to work-from-couch until September at the
earlies so I'm not complaining.
Post by Lynn McGuire
But I shook it off after a few days. I took a couple of days off from
work and none of my employees wanted to talk to me for a week as I was
still coughing and hacking. And my wife and daughter did not get it,
thank goodness.
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 02:02:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:21:12 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
My cuz is in her 70s, and we easily could have lost her.
Given that I have immediate family who live in the city proper, that
I haven't heard of anyone who has been hospitalized as of yet is good
fortune.
Kevin R
Sorry to hear that. Family is family, you decide. I facecrack with
several of my first cousins.
I left out a word up there, undiagnosed. I may have had SARS-COV-2
myself. I went to an engineering conference in Feb. I came back home
and got the worst cold of my life after a couple of days. I met several
Chinese engineers at the conference and shook their hands. Sat next to
one for a day and we were talking about life the entire time. Big
mistake.
I'm kind of in the same boat--I have several Chinese co-workers. One
went to China on vacation and came back with a cold that he gave the
rest of us--I remember telling the boss as I was leaving Thursday that
I wouldn't be in Friday, and going home and going to bed, and the next
coherent memory I have is of waking up Sunday morning.
On the other hand, I get to work-from-couch until September at the
earlies so I'm not complaining.
Post by Lynn McGuire
But I shook it off after a few days. I took a couple of days off from
work and none of my employees wanted to talk to me for a week as I was
still coughing and hacking. And my wife and daughter did not get it,
thank goodness.
Lynn
I am amazed at the traffic between China and the USA, over 400,000 in
January of this year alone. That is a lot of planes, all probably full.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 02:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:21:12 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
My cuz is in her 70s, and we easily could have lost her.
Given that I have immediate family who live in the city proper, that
I haven't heard of anyone who has been hospitalized as of yet is good
fortune.
Kevin R
Sorry to hear that. Family is family, you decide. I facecrack with
several of my first cousins.
I left out a word up there, undiagnosed. I may have had SARS-COV-2
myself. I went to an engineering conference in Feb. I came back home
and got the worst cold of my life after a couple of days. I met several
Chinese engineers at the conference and shook their hands. Sat next to
one for a day and we were talking about life the entire time. Big
mistake.
I'm kind of in the same boat--I have several Chinese co-workers. One
went to China on vacation and came back with a cold that he gave the
rest of us--I remember telling the boss as I was leaving Thursday that
I wouldn't be in Friday, and going home and going to bed, and the next
coherent memory I have is of waking up Sunday morning.
On the other hand, I get to work-from-couch until September at the
earlies so I'm not complaining.
Post by Lynn McGuire
But I shook it off after a few days. I took a couple of days off from
work and none of my employees wanted to talk to me for a week as I was
still coughing and hacking. And my wife and daughter did not get it,
thank goodness.
Lynn
Glad you survived it as you are 11 years older than me IIRC.

Hopefully, if we got the milder variety then that inoculates us from the
virulent version that apparently went through NYC.

It will be interesting when the antibody tests hit the general
population. I would be willing to pay $25 or so to get tested for the
antibodies.

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-07 23:39:24 UTC
Permalink
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now
and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
Here's today's _For Better or For Worse_ (in its current reruns):

https://www.gocomics.com/forbetterorforworse/2020/05/07

In previous strips, it had been planted that John hadn't seen
Cousin Fiona in thirty years and Elly had never met her.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 00:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now
and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug. Define "family" for your purposes.
https://www.gocomics.com/forbetterorforworse/2020/05/07
In previous strips, it had been planted that John hadn't seen
Cousin Fiona in thirty years and Elly had never met her.
Elly has a new baby ? I thought only tv shows added kids when their
rating went down.

Lynn
Chrysi Cat
2020-05-08 20:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now
and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
...
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2.  Neither do
any of my seven employees.  You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
Whereas my first cousin and her husband, who live in downstate New York
State both survived a bout with the bug.  Define "family" for your
purposes.
https://www.gocomics.com/forbetterorforworse/2020/05/07
In previous strips, it had been planted that John hadn't seen
Cousin Fiona in thirty years and Elly had never met her.
Elly has a new baby ?  I thought only tv shows added kids when their
rating went down.
Lynn
"New" for values of "27 years ago". She added April as wishful thinking
because her RL self WANTED to have another baby instead of the nest
being about to empty, not for ratings.

And she was such a driver for the final 15 years of the strip that you
really couldn't expect her to be excluded from the reruns, could you?

Especially since this should be right around the time that her presence
leads to the oldest dog in the family losing his life to save hers.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:41:24 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
So, then, you're prepared to prove that the lockdowns work?
Because people *are* dying from it. People afraid to go to the
hospital when having a heart attack. Suicide rates are up.
Stress kills a lot of people in normal times. Homelessness will
kill far more.
Unless you're prepared to acknowledge that the lockdown *has*
killed people, and *will* kill a lot more, you're just your
usual hypocritical, psychotic, mass-murdering-wannabe you
always are.
Homelessness certainly will kill people.
You have the tense wrong. Homelessness already kills people, and
always has.
The spread of the virus kills people directly. There's nothing
we can do to prevent that which isn't already being done.
Lockdowns don't have to cause homelessness, or stress due to
financial uncertainty. Not if the correct government policies
are followed in connection with those lockdowns.
In fact, anything restrictions that a rational person would
describe as a "lockdown" does, in fact, *have* to cause
homelessness, since there are many jobs (20 million+, so far), that
cannot be done from home, or cannot be done with people "locked
down" in their home. The only possible way to stave that off is for
the government to provide free money by simply printing more of it,
which it can only do for a farily short time before extreme
inflation sets in. Going the route of Rwanda or Venezuala, or
Equador not all that long ago, is worse than what the disease would
cause if left completely unchecked. People die from food riots,
too.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 18:02:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 May 2020 15:41:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
So, then, you're prepared to prove that the lockdowns work?
Because people *are* dying from it. People afraid to go to the
hospital when having a heart attack. Suicide rates are up.
Stress kills a lot of people in normal times. Homelessness will
kill far more.
Unless you're prepared to acknowledge that the lockdown *has*
killed people, and *will* kill a lot more, you're just your
usual hypocritical, psychotic, mass-murdering-wannabe you
always are.
Homelessness certainly will kill people.
You have the tense wrong. Homelessness already kills people, and
always has.
The spread of the virus kills people directly. There's nothing
we can do to prevent that which isn't already being done.
Lockdowns don't have to cause homelessness, or stress due to
financial uncertainty. Not if the correct government policies
are followed in connection with those lockdowns.
In fact, anything restrictions that a rational person would
describe as a "lockdown" does, in fact, *have* to cause
homelessness, since there are many jobs (20 million+, so far), that
cannot be done from home, or cannot be done with people "locked
down" in their home. The only possible way to stave that off is for
the government to provide free money by simply printing more of it,
which it can only do for a farily short time before extreme
inflation sets in. Going the route of Rwanda or Venezuala, or
Equador not all that long ago, is worse than what the disease would
cause if left completely unchecked. People die from food riots,
too.
It won't cause inflation /if/ it is scaled to food, clothing, and rent
at current prices.

Well, no more inflation than is considered advisable, anyway.

And the money can be put on the National Credit Card (National Debt).
Why not? That source has been used freely since Trump took office (not
to mention before Trump took office).

The only problem is: a ballooning National Debt envisioned by Ronnie
as being used to club Social Security to death is likely to produce
some /really/ high tax rates in the upper brackets when the time comes
to pay the money back. This is going to be very hard to accomplish,
harder if Republicans are running things, but not a breeze if
Democrats are either.

On the plus side, if whatever relaxations "Phase 1" produces in my
State don't backfire, the barbershops might be open (that is, "Phase
2" might arrive) next month.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 07 May 2020 15:41:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
So, then, you're prepared to prove that the lockdowns work?
Because people *are* dying from it. People afraid to go to
the hospital when having a heart attack. Suicide rates are
up. Stress kills a lot of people in normal times.
Homelessness will kill far more.
Unless you're prepared to acknowledge that the lockdown *has*
killed people, and *will* kill a lot more, you're just your
usual hypocritical, psychotic, mass-murdering-wannabe you
always are.
Homelessness certainly will kill people.
You have the tense wrong. Homelessness already kills people, and
always has.
The spread of the virus kills people directly. There's nothing
we can do to prevent that which isn't already being done.
Lockdowns don't have to cause homelessness, or stress due to
financial uncertainty. Not if the correct government policies
are followed in connection with those lockdowns.
In fact, anything restrictions that a rational person would
describe as a "lockdown" does, in fact, *have* to cause
homelessness, since there are many jobs (20 million+, so far),
that cannot be done from home, or cannot be done with people
"locked down" in their home. The only possible way to stave that
off is for the government to provide free money by simply
printing more of it, which it can only do for a farily short
time before extreme inflation sets in. Going the route of Rwanda
or Venezuala, or Equador not all that long ago, is worse than
what the disease would cause if left completely unchecked.
People die from food riots, too.
It won't cause inflation /if/ it is scaled to food, clothing,
and rent at current prices.
You have even less credibility as an economist than Shawn Wilson.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-07 22:42:45 UTC
Permalink
It still sounds like declaring war on China before the election.
Today he was talking about Pearl Harbor and 09/11/2001.
Gee, what's on his mind. He's one of the people I don't
expend time on receiving communication from, but some
bleeds through.
Perhaps you should pay very close attention to everything Donald J. Trump says
and does over the next few days.
Would that make a difference?
Yesterday he said he was firing all the scientists.
Now he says he is not.
He gets worse when people are listening to him. And my life
contains a finite number of seconds of time that I want to
spend not doing that.
Let him go play golf all day. He will do no harm except to
other golfers if he allows any, and he may get struck by
lightning.
After all, the People's Republic of China now
has a credible second-strike capability, so if he does do
something rash, you, as a resident of the United States,
could potentially find your life endangered by something
_other_ than the novel coronavirus.
I'm in Scotland. But I expect they will get us here.
Russia is flying nuclear bombers past us as I write.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52483027>
"RAF chief condemns Russia over intercepted planes near Scotland
30 April 2020"
Also March, February, January, and 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, ...
What do you suppose I can do about it?
We cannot keep the Russian bombers out of near USA air space either:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/politics/us-aircraft-intercept-russian-bombers/index.html

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-07 22:49:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 17:42:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
It still sounds like declaring war on China before the election.
Today he was talking about Pearl Harbor and 09/11/2001.
Gee, what's on his mind. He's one of the people I don't
expend time on receiving communication from, but some
bleeds through.
Perhaps you should pay very close attention to everything Donald J. Trump says
and does over the next few days.
Would that make a difference?
Yesterday he said he was firing all the scientists.
Now he says he is not.
He gets worse when people are listening to him. And my life
contains a finite number of seconds of time that I want to
spend not doing that.
Let him go play golf all day. He will do no harm except to
other golfers if he allows any, and he may get struck by
lightning.
After all, the People's Republic of China now
has a credible second-strike capability, so if he does do
something rash, you, as a resident of the United States,
could potentially find your life endangered by something
_other_ than the novel coronavirus.
I'm in Scotland. But I expect they will get us here.
Russia is flying nuclear bombers past us as I write.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52483027>
"RAF chief condemns Russia over intercepted planes near Scotland
30 April 2020"
Also March, February, January, and 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, ...
What do you suppose I can do about it?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/politics/us-aircraft-intercept-russian-bombers/index.html
We can, we just choose not to. It's the intercept that is the hard
part. Once you've intercepted, shooting the thing down is easy. But
for reasons unrelated to the puissance of our weapons or the skills of
our pilots, the choice it made to let them go on doing whatever they
are doing.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:48:11 UTC
Permalink
snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per million,
and how the rates change over time. The US is far from worst.
Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to the
end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter total
time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at the end.

And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of
Belgium's misfortune but then these figures have to be read in
awareness of the detail in that NYTimes article you recently
referenced which said all reported deaths were understated and
in some cases up to some massive percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and political)
interest in there being serious underreporting. After all, the more
cases there are, the more money hospitals will get from the
government, so there _must_ be more cases out there! And more panic
the news vultures can spread, the more people will read their
propaganda without stopping to think what a pile of steaming
bullshit it is. And the more politicians drunk on power already can
convince themselves there wen't be an accounting for what looks
more and more every day like an outright coup.

Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-07 23:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per million,
and how the rates change over time. The US is far from worst.
Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to the
end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter total
time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of
Belgium's misfortune but then these figures have to be read in
awareness of the detail in that NYTimes article you recently
referenced which said all reported deaths were understated and
in some cases up to some massive percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and political)
interest in there being serious underreporting. After all, the more
cases there are, the more money hospitals will get from the
government, so there _must_ be more cases out there! And more panic
the news vultures can spread, the more people will read their
propaganda without stopping to think what a pile of steaming
bullshit it is. And the more politicians drunk on power already can
convince themselves there wen't be an accounting for what looks
more and more every day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
Everyone who disagrees with what you want to believe always has a
"vested interested" in disagreeing with you.
Titus G
2020-05-08 02:35:57 UTC
Permalink
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per million,
and how the rates change over time. The US is far from worst.
Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
has been the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to the end
yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter total time,
with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic damage
done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures have to
be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes article you
recently referenced which said all reported deaths were understated
and in some cases up to some massive percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting, sure.
All of them people with a vested financial (and political) interest
in there being serious underreporting. After all, the more cases
there are, the more money hospitals will get from the government, so
there _must_ be more cases out there! And more panic the news
vultures can spread, the more people will read their propaganda
without stopping to think what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And
the more politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every day
like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to before you
returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 05:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per
million, and how the rates change over time. The US is far
from worst. Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to
the end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter
total time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at
the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures
have to be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes
article you recently referenced which said all reported deaths
were understated and in some cases up to some massive
percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and
political) interest in there being serious underreporting.
After all, the more cases there are, the more money hospitals
will get from the government, so there _must_ be more cases out
there! And more panic the news vultures can spread, the more
people will read their propaganda without stopping to think
what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And the more
politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every
day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial incentives
for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to
before you returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-dea
th-toll-total.html
I would take an article from The Onion at face value before I'd
believe the page number on a NYT article.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Titus G
2020-05-08 03:02:35 UTC
Permalink
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per million,
and how the rates change over time. The US is far from worst.
Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
has been the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to the end
yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter total time,
with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic damage
done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures have to
be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes article you
recently referenced which said all reported deaths were understated
and in some cases up to some massive percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting, sure.
All of them people with a vested financial (and political) interest
in there being serious underreporting. After all, the more cases
there are, the more money hospitals will get from the government, so
there _must_ be more cases out there! And more panic the news
vultures can spread, the more people will read their propaganda
without stopping to think what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And
the more politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every day
like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to before you
returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per
million, and how the rates change over time. The US is far
from worst. Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to
the end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter
total time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at
the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures
have to be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes
article you recently referenced which said all reported deaths
were understated and in some cases up to some massive
percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and
political) interest in there being serious underreporting.
After all, the more cases there are, the more money hospitals
will get from the government, so there _must_ be more cases out
there! And more panic the news vultures can spread, the more
people will read their propaganda without stopping to think
what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And the more
politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every
day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial incentives
for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to
before you returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-dea
th-toll-total.html
As I have said before, I'll believe The Onion before I believe the
New York Times.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Chrysi Cat
2020-05-08 20:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Titus G
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation

It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per
million, and how the rates change over time. The US is far
from worst. Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to
the end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter
total time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at
the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures
have to be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes
article you recently referenced which said all reported deaths
were understated and in some cases up to some massive
percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and
political) interest in there being serious underreporting.
After all, the more cases there are, the more money hospitals
will get from the government, so there _must_ be more cases out
there! And more panic the news vultures can spread, the more
people will read their propaganda without stopping to think
what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And the more
politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every
day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial incentives
for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to
before you returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-dea
th-toll-total.html
As I have said before, I'll believe The Onion before I believe the
New York Times.
So you're literally saying that if it's not in the Washington Times,
Washington Examiner or (most importantly) the WSJ, it's fake news?

(Yes, I did exclude the Washington Post. If the NYT is too left for you,
then *it's* likely about as acceptable as the /Industrial Worker/).
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 20:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Titus G
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
http://youtu.be/jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per
million, and how the rates change over time. The US is far
from worst. Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has
been the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to
the end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a
shorter total time, with the same, or lower, or higher total
numbers at the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of
economic damage done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures
have to be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes
article you recently referenced which said all reported
deaths were understated and in some cases up to some massive
percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about
underreporting, sure. All of them people with a vested
financial (and political) interest in there being serious
underreporting. After all, the more cases there are, the more
money hospitals will get from the government, so there _must_
be more cases out there! And more panic the news vultures can
spread, the more people will read their propaganda without
stopping to think what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And
the more politicians drunk on power already can convince
themselves there wen't be an accounting for what looks more
and more every day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial
incentives for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to
before you returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-d
ea th-toll-total.html
As I have said before, I'll believe The Onion before I believe
the New York Times.
So you're literally saying that if it's not in the Washington
Times, Washington Examiner or (most importantly) the WSJ, it's
fake news?
If you can quote me on that, I'll pay you $1,000 in cash. A
MessageID would do.
Post by Chrysi Cat
(Yes, I did exclude the Washington Post. If the NYT is too left
for you, then *it's* likely about as acceptable as the
/Industrial Worker/).
None of them are credible, but the NYT is one of the special cases,
like CNN and Faux News. They're head and shoulders more full of
shit than most of the mainstream news media, all of whom are full
of shit propagandists.

When you read the news or watch it on TV, you're not the customer,
you're the product. Reporting facts actively interfers with their
business model.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-08 20:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Titus G
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 7/05/20 9:29 am, Peter Trei wrote: snip
This is an interesting animation
http://youtu.be/jeibBgHO9Fg
It shows the 15 countries with the highest deaths per
million, and how the rates change over time. The US is far
from worst. Belgium is currently top, which was news to me.
Yes, it was interesting. Since all this began my interest in
watching the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries has been
the final result, the deaths per million
In the end, that's the only number that matters. We're not to
the end yet. High numbers now can just as easily mean a shorter
total time, with the same, or lower, or higher total numbers at
the end.
And that makes no attempt to measure other effects of economic
damage done.
so was aware of Belgium's misfortune but then these figures
have to be read in awareness of the detail in that NYTimes
article you recently referenced which said all reported deaths
were understated and in some cases up to some massive
percentage, 60 was it? .
A lot of people are wagging their tongues about underreporting,
sure. All of them people with a vested financial (and
political) interest in there being serious underreporting.
After all, the more cases there are, the more money hospitals
will get from the government, so there _must_ be more cases out
there! And more panic the news vultures can spread, the more
people will read their propaganda without stopping to think
what a pile of steaming bullshit it is. And the more
politicians drunk on power already can convince themselves
there wen't be an accounting for what looks more and more every
day like an outright coup.
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial incentives
for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
Here is the article that Peter Trei originally referred to
before you returned to this list.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-dea
th-toll-total.html
As I have said before, I'll believe The Onion before I believe the
New York Times.
Yes. You Trump Derangement Syndrome is in the advanced stage.
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-08 04:37:41 UTC
Permalink
On 08/05/2020 08:48, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to live in a
country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as good as it should
be, but infinitely better than what the USA has.

Back in the early 2000s I was asked if I would consider moving to the
OC, if the manager who wanted me there could swing it. After looking at
the proposed health plan, the offered salary, housing costs, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera, and taking into account having a chronic disease for
which the best medicine for me was not available in the USA, my
counter-offer was 50% more salary, and the same health plan (including
'er indoors) that the managers were on. Fortunately my managerial
stream understood why, and I suffered no ill-effects. (That didn't
happen until I told a weasel VP that doing something that way was not
only wrong, but illegal in several jurisdictions. Oh well, I got
another job :-) )

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 10:00:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to live in a
country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as good as it should
be, but infinitely better than what the USA has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your country. That
doesn't mean that any of the government-paid functionaries actually
cares about your health except to the extent that they can use it to
advance their careers.

I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care" as if
throwing tax money at something will result in anybody actually caring
about anything.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Back in the early 2000s I was asked if I would consider moving to the
OC, if the manager who wanted me there could swing it. After looking at
the proposed health plan, the offered salary, housing costs, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera, and taking into account having a chronic disease for
which the best medicine for me was not available in the USA, my
counter-offer was 50% more salary, and the same health plan (including
'er indoors) that the managers were on. Fortunately my managerial
stream understood why, and I suffered no ill-effects. (That didn't
happen until I told a weasel VP that doing something that way was not
only wrong, but illegal in several jurisdictions. Oh well, I got
another job :-) )
Cheers,
Gary B-)
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 10:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to live in a
country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as good as it should
be, but infinitely better than what the USA has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your country. That
doesn't mean that any of the government-paid functionaries actually
cares about your health except to the extent that they can use it to
advance their careers.
I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care" as if
throwing tax money at something will result in anybody actually caring
about anything.
Funny how most places in the developed with government funded health care do significantly better on comparisons than the USA then isn't it?
Including the very basic metric of life expectancy
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial
incentives for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to
live in a country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as
good as it should be, but infinitely better than what the USA
has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your country.
That doesn't mean that any of the government-paid functionaries
actually cares about your health except to the extent that they
can use it to advance their careers.
I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care"
as if throwing tax money at something will result in anybody
actually caring about anything.
Funny how most places in the developed with government funded
health care do significantly better on comparisons than the USA
then isn't it? Including the very basic metric of life
expectancy
Italy's health care system is a veritable socialist paradise,
innit?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 20:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial
incentives for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to
live in a country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as
good as it should be, but infinitely better than what the USA
has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your country.
That doesn't mean that any of the government-paid functionaries
actually cares about your health except to the extent that they
can use it to advance their careers.
I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care"
as if throwing tax money at something will result in anybody
actually caring about anything.
Funny how most places in the developed with government funded
health care do significantly better on comparisons than the USA
then isn't it? Including the very basic metric of life
expectancy
Italy's health care system is a veritable socialist paradise,
innit?
Italy is another place where they dumped the long term patients in the
hospitals into nursing homes to make room for the virus patients. Many
of the long term patients already had SARS-COV-2. Voila ! Half of the
deaths in Italy were from the nursing homes.

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 20:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
On 08/05/2020 08:48, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote: [SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is
institutionalized by policy, with *strong* financial
incentives for doctors and hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to
live in a country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not
as good as it should be, but infinitely better than what the
USA has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your
country. That doesn't mean that any of the government-paid
functionaries actually cares about your health except to the
extent that they can use it to advance their careers.
I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care"
as if throwing tax money at something will result in anybody
actually caring about anything.
Funny how most places in the developed with government funded
health care do significantly better on comparisons than the
USA then isn't it? Including the very basic metric of life
expectancy
Italy's health care system is a veritable socialist paradise,
innit?
Italy is another place where they dumped the long term patients
in the hospitals into nursing homes to make room for the virus
patients. Many of the long term patients already had
SARS-COV-2. Voila ! Half of the deaths in Italy were from the
nursing homes.
Italy has just about every single aggravating factor. Dense
population centers, aging population (only Japan ha a higher
percentage of people over 60), lots of smokers, a sense of personal
space that would drive most Americans to violence, a touchy-feely
culture, and by far worst of all, a health care system run by one
of the most inept governments on the planet. France and Spain share
similar traits, though somewhat less so. Belgium, too, if the
deaths/million pop is any indication. One of the reasons the death
rate in the US is as low as it is is that we have more ICU beds per
capita than nearly anywhere else. Which is, BTW, a direct result of
having profit driven, private hospitals be so common.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-08 12:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 14:37:41 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Nobody wants to talk about overeporting, which is institutionalized
by policy, with *strong* financial incentives for doctors and
hospitals to play ball.
It's when I read things like that I am (again) very glad to live in a
country where "Health Care" is a real thing. Not as good as it should
be, but infinitely better than what the USA has.
Government paid medical treatment might exist in your country. That
doesn't mean that any of the government-paid functionaries actually
cares about your health except to the extent that they can use it to
advance their careers.
I really wish that people would quit calling it "health care" as if
throwing tax money at something will result in anybody actually caring
about anything.
Ah, you don't know any Doctors of Medicine, or Surgeons, or Nurses, or
Midwives, or even Veterinary Nurses, do you?

Of course, some of them are motivated primarily by greed, indeed, the
bloke who is going to stab me in the eyes is one of them, but he's a bit
less than one percent of the various medical types I know.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:48:50 UTC
Permalink
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election, right?
You DO know what non sequitur means, right ?
There are a *lot* of words Skippy doesn't know the meaning of.

Not that you're any smarter.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-07 22:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case.
At the moment, the best numbers for the mortality rate of all
infected people for COVID-19 are around 0.37%. This is from a
study of the district of Heinzberg in Germany, which was an
infection hotspot.
Aesop is claiming 3% of the infected die. I have trouble with his math.
Trouble why?

- You don't understand the math?
- You found an error in his calcuations?
- You believe his assumptions are flawed?
- His results don't agree with your preconceptions?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:58:14 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an idea
that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely this kind
of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It might. But
there's *no* science to back that up.
You don't catch this virus, or most, by breathing it in. You
catch it by handling things people who have it have handled,
and touching your face. That, from what we can tell (with the
lack of real research), is overwhelmingly the vector. Standing
six feet away from someone won't help at all if you then touch
the same doorknob they did.
But I suppose you know more about it han the Nobel Prize
winners in the field. Or at least believe you do. (I know one
buy who is firmly convinced that figuring out how to use the
graphing functions in Excel makes him an epidemiologist, so
you're in good company, I guess..)
I missed that interview.
It didn't get a lot of mainstream coverage.
I'm certainly aware that we are reminded that thorough
handwashing is very important for stopping the spread of colds
and the flu - and, indeed, it certainly has been mentioned in
connection with the current pandemic.
And that is backed by solid, peer reviewed research. Soap (and
synthetic detergents - syndets, to use the trade term - which are
far more common than actual soap) apparently chemically unzips
pretty much anything germ-like in short order.

Unlike social distancing.
However, the current pandemic has, as one of its results, made
hand sanitizers hard to obtain (along with masks and toilet
paper).
Oddly, my employer has no problems at all obtaining the first two.
We've had sufficient stock to meet demands all along. (Toilet paper
is a special case because of all the people working from home right
now. We have *no* problem getting the stuff we use in the stores.)
Also, the importance of washing hands had not been
claimed to make covering coughs and sneezes irrelevant to
controlling the spread of colds or the flu, so I don't see why
this is not an issue with regards to COVID-19.
Coughing and sneezing aren't the major vectors for this or most
viral infections. You don't get it by inhaling it. You get it by
handling things that have been handled by someone who has it, then
touching your face. The news reports about magic droplets that
travel across continential divides and kick your door in to infect
you are 99.99999% hype, propaganda and bullshit.
If there really are Nobel Prize winners who say otherwise, I'd
be interested in hearing about it.
This particular individual isn't saying it doesn't work. He's
saying we don't know, because no peer reviewed research has ever
been done on the subject. And he's saying that the economic damage
of the lockdowns (also completely unsupported by peer reviewed
research) may well outweigh the medical damage already.
(Of course, even a Nobel
Prize winner can be wrong, at least on subjects *outside* of his
own field; Linus Pauling comes to mind.)
Indeed, *especially* on subjects outside their own field. This
particular individual (I *really* wish I'd save the link), however,
was a (IIRC) "sturctural biologist" who had spent his career doing
research on epidemics and how they spread, and how their run their
course. He was 100% in his field, and has the Nobel Prize to back
it up. (He's also *not* saying "everybody but me is wrong," he's
pointing out serious flaws in the "logic" of the people pushing the
panic button, and the utter lack of science behind what they're
claiming. In other worse, if you have any idea who science works,
he shounds damned credible, unlike the doom criers.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-07 23:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an idea
that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely this kind
of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It might. But
there's *no* science to back that up.
You don't catch this virus, or most, by breathing it in. You
catch it by handling things people who have it have handled,
and touching your face. That, from what we can tell (with the
lack of real research), is overwhelmingly the vector. Standing
six feet away from someone won't help at all if you then touch
the same doorknob they did.
But I suppose you know more about it han the Nobel Prize
winners in the field. Or at least believe you do. (I know one
buy who is firmly convinced that figuring out how to use the
graphing functions in Excel makes him an epidemiologist, so
you're in good company, I guess..)
I missed that interview.
It didn't get a lot of mainstream coverage.
And still the name of this "Nobel Prize winner" must remain secret.

Trump ordered it redacted.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
I'm certainly aware that we are reminded that thorough
handwashing is very important for stopping the spread of colds
and the flu - and, indeed, it certainly has been mentioned in
connection with the current pandemic.
And that is backed by solid, peer reviewed research. Soap (and
synthetic detergents - syndets, to use the trade term - which are
far more common than actual soap) apparently chemically unzips
pretty much anything germ-like in short order.
Unlike social distancing.
You think that having less social contact WON'T decrease your chance of
getting infected?

Interesting.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
However, the current pandemic has, as one of its results, made
hand sanitizers hard to obtain (along with masks and toilet
paper).
Oddly, my employer has no problems at all obtaining the first two.
We've had sufficient stock to meet demands all along. (Toilet paper
is a special case because of all the people working from home right
now. We have *no* problem getting the stuff we use in the stores.)
Also, the importance of washing hands had not been
claimed to make covering coughs and sneezes irrelevant to
controlling the spread of colds or the flu, so I don't see why
this is not an issue with regards to COVID-19.
Coughing and sneezing aren't the major vectors for this or most
viral infections. You don't get it by inhaling it. You get it by
handling things that have been handled by someone who has it, then
touching your face. The news reports about magic droplets that
travel across continential divides and kick your door in to infect
you are 99.99999% hype, propaganda and bullshit.
Says the infectious diseases specialist...


...and straw man!
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
If there really are Nobel Prize winners who say otherwise, I'd
be interested in hearing about it.
This particular individual isn't saying it doesn't work. He's
saying we don't know, because no peer reviewed research has ever
been done on the subject. And he's saying that the economic damage
of the lockdowns (also completely unsupported by peer reviewed
research) may well outweigh the medical damage already.
Why not just name him?
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(Of course, even a Nobel
Prize winner can be wrong, at least on subjects *outside* of his
own field; Linus Pauling comes to mind.)
Indeed, *especially* on subjects outside their own field. This
particular individual (I *really* wish I'd save the link), however,
was a (IIRC) "sturctural biologist" who had spent his career doing
research on epidemics and how they spread, and how their run their
course. He was 100% in his field, and has the Nobel Prize to back
it up. (He's also *not* saying "everybody but me is wrong," he's
pointing out serious flaws in the "logic" of the people pushing the
panic button, and the utter lack of science behind what they're
claiming. In other worse, if you have any idea who science works,
he shounds damned credible, unlike the doom criers.)
Riiiiiiight.

You "wish" you'd saved the link...

...but can't remember the name...

...what the Nobel Prize was for...
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 09:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an idea
that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely this kind
of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It might. But
there's *no* science to back that up.
You don't catch this virus, or most, by breathing it in. You
catch it by handling things people who have it have handled,
and touching your face. That, from what we can tell (with the
lack of real research), is overwhelmingly the vector. Standing
six feet away from someone won't help at all if you then touch
the same doorknob they did.
But I suppose you know more about it han the Nobel Prize
winners in the field. Or at least believe you do. (I know one
buy who is firmly convinced that figuring out how to use the
graphing functions in Excel makes him an epidemiologist, so
you're in good company, I guess..)
I missed that interview.
It didn't get a lot of mainstream coverage.
I'm certainly aware that we are reminded that thorough
handwashing is very important for stopping the spread of colds
and the flu - and, indeed, it certainly has been mentioned in
connection with the current pandemic.
And that is backed by solid, peer reviewed research. Soap (and
synthetic detergents - syndets, to use the trade term - which are
far more common than actual soap) apparently chemically unzips
pretty much anything germ-like in short order.
Unlike social distancing.
There's no solid double, blind peer reviews showing that parachutes work
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Also, the importance of washing hands had not been
claimed to make covering coughs and sneezes irrelevant to
controlling the spread of colds or the flu, so I don't see why
this is not an issue with regards to COVID-19.
Coughing and sneezing aren't the major vectors for this or most
viral infections. You don't get it by inhaling it. You get it by
handling things that have been handled by someone who has it, then
touching your face. The news reports about magic droplets that
travel across continential divides and kick your door in to infect
you are 99.99999% hype, propaganda and bullshit.
It's not like measles which is airborne and can hang around in the air for a couple of hours but it is possible to catch it from aerosols (respiratory droplets) which don't stay in the air for all that long or go that far but (especially indoors) are a major form of transmission
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
If there really are Nobel Prize winners who say otherwise, I'd
be interested in hearing about it.
This particular individual isn't saying it doesn't work. He's
saying we don't know, because no peer reviewed research has ever
been done on the subject. And he's saying that the economic damage
of the lockdowns (also completely unsupported by peer reviewed
research) may well outweigh the medical damage already.>
(Of course, even a Nobel
Prize winner can be wrong, at least on subjects *outside* of his
own field; Linus Pauling comes to mind.)
Indeed, *especially* on subjects outside their own field. This
particular individual (I *really* wish I'd save the link), however,
was a (IIRC) "sturctural biologist" who had spent his career doing
research on epidemics and how they spread, and how their run their
course. He was 100% in his field, and has the Nobel Prize to back
it up.
I believe you're referring to Michael Levitt based on what he's reported to have said but you're completely wrong on his experience
He's got a nobel prize for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems"
He's worked at molecular simulations of DNA
https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/

He's pushed herd immunity which requires an absolute minimum of 60% of the population (probably 80-90% with how contagious it is)
Which means 200,000,000 cases in the USA which is a hell of a lot of deaths
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(He's also *not* saying "everybody but me is wrong," he's
pointing out serious flaws in the "logic" of the people pushing the
panic button, and the utter lack of science behind what they're
claiming. In other worse, if you have any idea who science works,
he shounds damned credible, unlike the doom criers.)
His logic appears to be "it's slowed in different places so that must be part of the virus" rather than different countries having different reactions but everywhere having some action that slows it

It also completely ignores the fact that different countries have had massively different amounts of slowdown
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:37:50 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 8:58:17 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an
idea that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely
this kind of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It
might. But there's *no* science to back that up.
You don't catch this virus, or most, by breathing it in. You
catch it by handling things people who have it have handled,
and touching your face. That, from what we can tell (with
the lack of real research), is overwhelmingly the vector.
Standing six feet away from someone won't help at all if you
then touch the same doorknob they did.
But I suppose you know more about it han the Nobel Prize
winners in the field. Or at least believe you do. (I know
one buy who is firmly convinced that figuring out how to use
the graphing functions in Excel makes him an epidemiologist,
so you're in good company, I guess..)
I missed that interview.
It didn't get a lot of mainstream coverage.
I'm certainly aware that we are reminded that thorough
handwashing is very important for stopping the spread of
colds and the flu - and, indeed, it certainly has been
mentioned in connection with the current pandemic.
And that is backed by solid, peer reviewed research. Soap (and
synthetic detergents - syndets, to use the trade term - which
are far more common than actual soap) apparently chemically
unzips pretty much anything germ-like in short order.
Unlike social distancing.
There's no solid double, blind peer reviews showing that
parachutes work
Is it your claim that social distancing is as easily proven to work
as a parachute? Are you stupid? Or just deliberately trying to
change the subject?
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Also, the importance of washing hands had not been
claimed to make covering coughs and sneezes irrelevant to
controlling the spread of colds or the flu, so I don't see
why this is not an issue with regards to COVID-19.
Coughing and sneezing aren't the major vectors for this or most
viral infections. You don't get it by inhaling it. You get it
by handling things that have been handled by someone who has
it, then touching your face. The news reports about magic
droplets that travel across continential divides and kick your
door in to infect you are 99.99999% hype, propaganda and
bullshit.
It's not like measles which is airborne and can hang around in
the air for a couple of hours but it is possible to catch it
from aerosols (respiratory droplets) which don't stay in the air
for all that long or go that far but (especially indoors) are a
major form of transmission
Got any peer reviewed research on what percentage of people catch
it that way? Is there *any*?
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
If there really are Nobel Prize winners who say otherwise,
I'd be interested in hearing about it.
This particular individual isn't saying it doesn't work. He's
saying we don't know, because no peer reviewed research has
ever been done on the subject. And he's saying that the
economic damage of the lockdowns (also completely unsupported
by peer reviewed research) may well outweigh the medical damage
already.>
(Of course, even a Nobel
Prize winner can be wrong, at least on subjects *outside* of
his own field; Linus Pauling comes to mind.)
Indeed, *especially* on subjects outside their own field. This
particular individual (I *really* wish I'd save the link),
however, was a (IIRC) "sturctural biologist" who had spent his
career doing research on epidemics and how they spread, and how
their run their course. He was 100% in his field, and has the
Nobel Prize to back it up.
I believe you're referring to Michael Levitt based on what he's
reported to have said but you're completely wrong on his
experience He's got a nobel prize for "the development of
multiscale models for complex chemical systems" He's worked at
molecular simulations of DNA
https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covi
d-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/
He's pushed herd immunity which requires an absolute minimum of
60%
That number varies, depending on who you listen to. When you
present it in such an absolute way, it doesn't impress me with your
in depth knowledge of the subject.
of the population (probably 80-90% with how contagious it
is) Which means 200,000,000 cases in the USA which is a hell of
a lot of deaths
Or not, since there is growing evidence that it is *far* more
common already than has been reported, but that most people are
either asymptomatic, or had such mild symptoms they never realized
what it was.

In any event, his numbers hold up. The "the world is going to end"
predictions have not - not even once - been anywhere *near* what
has happened.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(He's also *not* saying "everybody but me is wrong," he's
pointing out serious flaws in the "logic" of the people pushing
the panic button, and the utter lack of science behind what
they're claiming. In other worse, if you have any idea who
science works, he shounds damned credible, unlike the doom
criers.)
His logic appears to be "it's slowed in different places so that
must be part of the virus" rather than different countries
having different reactions but everywhere having some action
that slows it
His logic, which he's made pretty clear but you apparently don't
understand, is that social distancing and lockdowns have been tried
in some places, and not tried in others, with a wide range in
between, and he can't find much difference.

But do feel free to try to distract from that, since you can't
refute it.
It also completely ignores the fact that different countries
have had massively different amounts of slowdown
Like you ignore that countries that have implement tight lockdowns
and countries that haven't have very similiar results?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 22:59:23 UTC
Permalink
In article
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is
"worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you
are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as
is the case for the flu, it is not a serious threat
(and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the
novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you
because of your political agenda, that is your problem
- and the problem of anyone silly enough to take you
seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly
not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote" this
time out and still win in the Electoral College. The Dems could
just run up larger majorities in the states they do win than
they did in 2016.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team Porcupine!
Are you really!? Who's their candidate?
I dunno, but I'll bet he's a real . . . prick.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:00:49 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is
"worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you
are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as
is the case for the flu, it is not a serious threat
(and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the
novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you
because of your political agenda, that is your problem
- and the problem of anyone silly enough to take you
seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly
not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote" this
time out and still win in the Electoral College. The Dems
could just run up larger majorities in the states they do win
than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first, you
know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-07 23:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is
"worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you
are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as
is the case for the flu, it is not a serious threat
(and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the
novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you
because of your political agenda, that is your problem
- and the problem of anyone silly enough to take you
seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly
not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote" this
time out and still win in the Electoral College. The Dems
could just run up larger majorities in the states they do win
than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first, you
know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
Actually, it really does.

Your fantasies are still fantasies.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-07 23:22:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is
"worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you
are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as
is the case for the flu, it is not a serious threat
(and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the
novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you
because of your political agenda, that is your problem
- and the problem of anyone silly enough to take you
seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly
not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote" this
time out and still win in the Electoral College. The Dems
could just run up larger majorities in the states they do win
than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first, you
know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a government photo
id to vote.

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it
is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and
you are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it,
as is the case for the flu, it is not a serious
threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died
as well... that is a different matter. And that's
what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to
you because of your political agenda, that is your
problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to
take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote"
this time out and still win in the Electoral College. The
Dems could just run up larger majorities in the states they
do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first,
you know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a government
photo id to vote.
At the risk of actually quoting a Faux News article:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-ids-
in-kentucky

there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless of how
overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't mentioned - in
this batch.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 00:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it
is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and
you are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it,
as is the case for the flu, it is not a serious
threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died
as well... that is a different matter. And that's
what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to
you because of your political agenda, that is your
problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to
take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote"
this time out and still win in the Electoral College. The
Dems could just run up larger majorities in the states they
do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first,
you know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a government
photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-ids-
in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless of how
overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't mentioned - in
this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-ids-in-kentucky

Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.

Lynn
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 02:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it
is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and
you are using statistics in a way that justifies
Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of
people. Why is the current novel coronavirus
causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?
Because of who it kills. If you have to be elderly
and frail to die from it, as is the case for the
flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu
vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number
of health problems, is enough to make it likely to
be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have
died as well... that is a different matter. And
that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to
you because of your political agenda, that is your
problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to
take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in
the USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody
knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it
should /be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to
die off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a
false sense of security. The only real question come
November is how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose.
The less they try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last
election, right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote"
this time out and still win in the Electoral College. The
Dems could just run up larger majorities in the states
they do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man
who enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with
his performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the
first, you know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a
government photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-i
ds- in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless of
how overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't mentioned
- in this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-id
s-in-kentucky
Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place on
a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast. In terms of
effects on elections, of course, what can be proven is miniscule
and not terribly important. (Because in places where voting fraud
actually makes a difference, the people committing it are the ones
who are investigating it, so of course there's no proof.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
danny burstein
2020-05-08 02:16:03 UTC
Permalink
In <***@69.16.179.43> Ninapenda Jibini <***@gmail.com> writes:

[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place on
a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.

The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...

That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.

And ditto for the followups.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 02:17:45 UTC
Permalink
Nice snip job, loser. You know, the part where I pointed out that
it wasn't enough to matter? That part you snipped out, so you could
lie about what I said?

Loser.
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place
on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.
The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...
That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.
And ditto for the followups.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
danny burstein
2020-05-08 02:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Nice snip job, loser. You know, the part where I pointed out that
it wasn't enough to matter? That part you snipped out, so you could
lie about what I said?
Loser.
You mean right next to where you said there was plenty but
it wouldn't be found because the folk doing the looking were
the ones benefitting from it?

Sad
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Nice snip job, loser. You know, the part where I pointed out
that it wasn't enough to matter? That part you snipped out, so
you could lie about what I said?
Loser.
You mean right next to where you said there was plenty but
it wouldn't be found because the folk doing the looking were
the ones benefitting from it?
That isn't what I said. Either you know that, and are lying, or you
don't, and are illiterate and too stupid to participate in a grown
up conversation.

I really wish I had time to play. I could keep you on the hook for
days, arguing with Pee Wee Herman quotes. (And if you don't believe
me, ask around.) Sadly, I'll be too busy again as of tomorrow to
bother.
Post by danny burstein
Sad
I know you are, but what am I?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 02:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place on
a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.
The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...
That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.
And ditto for the followups.
Oh no, here we go. He has pushed the ON button.

Lynn
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes
place on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.
The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...
That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.
And ditto for the followups.
Oh no, here we go. He has pushed the ON button.
Not for long. I'm back on the road tomorrow. Probably have to
struggle to get time for lunch again.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 19:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes
place on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.
The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...
That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.
And ditto for the followups.
Oh no, here we go. He has pushed the ON button.
Not for long. I'm back on the road tomorrow. Probably have to
struggle to get time for lunch again.
Have a good trip !

I have several delayed IT projects around the office here. I am going
to give myself a new PC using Windows 10 so I can put in a bigger backup
hard drive (my current office pc is limited to 4 TB drives). And one of
my file servers is randomly rebooting when the load goes above minimal.

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 20:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes
place on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast.
Now stop that. STOP THAT.
The cherry picked Kobach Commission, led by Kansas's Sec of
State who had been SCREAMING about voter fraud, who told
everyone he'd find gazillions of fraudulent votes...
That commission was disbanded after the numbers they
found barely scratched the noise level.
And ditto for the followups.
Oh no, here we go. He has pushed the ON button.
Not for long. I'm back on the road tomorrow. Probably have to
struggle to get time for lunch again.
Have a good trip !
Not entirely suprisingly, I did not make it out to the remote
stores that need computers replaced, because I had to go to the
store we're closing[1] for - and it's written in stone now, and we
no longer have keys to the doors - the last time to take down the
last PC and the internet router. Didn't take long, but long enough
I didn't have time to replace either one office PC or two
registers.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have several delayed IT projects around the office here. I am
going to give myself a new PC using Windows 10 so I can put in a
bigger backup hard drive (my current office pc is limited to 4
TB drives). And one of my file servers is randomly rebooting
when the load goes above minimal.
I have nearly $70,000 worth of brand new PCs to replace old stuff
that *really* needs to be replaced, but we're restricting it to
stuff that's actually failing right now for obvious reasons. And
sometimes, not even that. Sigh.


[1]Completely unrelated to the current madness. Lease renewals have
not gone well the last few years because people who own commercial
property are greedy, and not very bright, and the market has been
hot until this year. We're expecting to have a *much* easier time
of it for the next few years, becase we can still pay the rent.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:43:34 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 08 May 2020 02:01:18 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it
is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and
you are using statistics in a way that justifies
Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of
people. Why is the current novel coronavirus
causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?
Because of who it kills. If you have to be elderly
and frail to die from it, as is the case for the
flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu
vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number
of health problems, is enough to make it likely to
be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have
died as well... that is a different matter. And
that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to
you because of your political agenda, that is your
problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to
take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in
the USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody
knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it
should /be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to
die off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a
false sense of security. The only real question come
November is how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose.
The less they try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last
election, right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote"
this time out and still win in the Electoral College. The
Dems could just run up larger majorities in the states
they do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man
who enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with
his performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the
first, you know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a
government photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-i
ds- in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless of
how overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't mentioned
- in this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-id
s-in-kentucky
Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place on
a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast. In terms of
effects on elections, of course, what can be proven is miniscule
and not terribly important. (Because in places where voting fraud
actually makes a difference, the people committing it are the ones
who are investigating it, so of course there's no proof.)
Well, of course it does.

Lots of people vote for Democrats.

And that is what Republicans mean by "voter fraud".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:27:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 May 2020 02:01:18 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 5/7/2020 6:00 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that
it is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"...
and you are using statistics in a way that
justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of
people. Why is the current novel coronavirus
causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?
Because of who it kills. If you have to be
elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case
for the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we
have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number
of health problems, is enough to make it likely
to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults
have died as well... that is a different matter.
And that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a
number comparable with that from a flu
outbreak... when no such extreme measures were
taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious
to you because of your political agenda, that is
your problem - and the problem of anyone silly
enough to take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in
the USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody
knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it
should /be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are
still around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to
die off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a
false sense of security. The only real question come
November is how *badly* the Democrats are going to
lose. The less they try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last
election, right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular
vote" this time out and still win in the Electoral
College. The Dems could just run up larger majorities in
the states they do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being
forced back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man
who enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was
the independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed
with his performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the
first, you know. Even death doesn't keep people from
voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a
government photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake
-i ds- in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless
of how overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't
mentioned - in this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-
id s-in-kentucky
Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place
on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast. In terms
of effects on elections, of course, what can be proven is
miniscule and not terribly important. (Because in places where
voting fraud actually makes a difference, the people committing
it are the ones who are investigating it, so of course there's
no proof.)
Well, of course it does.
Lots of people vote for Democrats.
And that is what Republicans mean by "voter fraud".
And when lots of those people voting for Democrats are, in fact,
dead, or unaware they are doing so, or not citizens, the
Republicans are correct.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-08 20:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 May 2020 02:01:18 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 5/7/2020 6:00 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that
it is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"...
and you are using statistics in a way that
justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of
people. Why is the current novel coronavirus
causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?
Because of who it kills. If you have to be
elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case
for the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we
have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number
of health problems, is enough to make it likely
to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults
have died as well... that is a different matter.
And that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a
number comparable with that from a flu
outbreak... when no such extreme measures were
taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious
to you because of your political agenda, that is
your problem - and the problem of anyone silly
enough to take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in
the USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody
knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it
should /be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are
still around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to
die off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a
false sense of security. The only real question come
November is how *badly* the Democrats are going to
lose. The less they try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last
election, right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular
vote" this time out and still win in the Electoral
College. The Dems could just run up larger majorities in
the states they do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being
forced back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man
who enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was
the independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed
with his performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the
first, you know. Even death doesn't keep people from
voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a
government photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake
-i ds- in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless
of how overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't
mentioned - in this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-
id s-in-kentucky
Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.
Indeed. There's considerable proof that voting fraud takes place
on a scale that, in absolute numbers, is pretty vast. In terms
of effects on elections, of course, what can be proven is
miniscule and not terribly important. (Because in places where
voting fraud actually makes a difference, the people committing
it are the ones who are investigating it, so of course there's
no proof.)
Well, of course it does.
Lots of people vote for Democrats.
And that is what Republicans mean by "voter fraud".
And when lots of those people voting for Democrats are, in fact,
dead, or unaware they are doing so, or not citizens, the
Republicans are correct.
If you could only actually demonstrate that any of that was true...

YABCYNB
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:42:22 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 19:02:56 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 20:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:52:01 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker
On 2020-05-06 3:41 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wed, 6 May 2020 13:32:13 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J.
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it
is "worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and
you are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark
Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.
Why is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic,
whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it kills.
If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it,
as is the case for the flu, it is not a serious
threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be
fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died
as well... that is a different matter. And that's
what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its
spread, yes, the death toll is limited to a number
comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no
such extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to
you because of your political agenda, that is your
problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to
take you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should
/be/ obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have
certainly not reached herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
I'm sad that he's stupid enough to think that even if
social distancing _is_ making some kind of difference
enough of "the Trump Base" is going to die to make a
difference in the election.
I'm acatually kinda happy he thinks that. Leads to a false
sense of security. The only real question come November is
how *badly* the Democrats are going to lose. The less they
try, the worse it'll be for them.
You get that Trump got 3 million fewer votes last election,
right?
:-)
Trump could get whupped even harder in the "popular vote"
this time out and still win in the Electoral College. The
Dems could just run up larger majorities in the states they
do win than they did in 2016.
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced
back to work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who
enslaved them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team
Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
The second sentence does not necessarily result from the first,
you know. Even death doesn't keep people from voting.
I know. It is tougher here in Texas, you must have a government
photo id to vote.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-ids-
in-kentucky
there does seem to have been an actual incident, regardless of how
overblown their coverage is. (Though Texas isn't mentioned - in
this batch.)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/authorities-seize-thousands-of-fake-ids-in-kentucky
Oh my ! And that is just one shipment.
Those were driver's licenses.

How about the /special/ id's required by some states?

Or the /enhanced/ driver's licenses which, it appears, will soon [1]
be needed to enter Federal buildings and/or pass airport screening?

[1] The date has, IIRC, been pushed back several times, and I would
not be surprised if the current pandemic pushes it back yet again.
But, like chip VISAs, I suspect that it is inevitable -- and fakes
will follow as soon as possible.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:07:45 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 1:53:51 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
On 2020-05-06 2:45 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 5:56:15 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
In a way, that is a true statement. It isn't possible to
prove, to the degree required of a mathematical proof,
that the various social distancing measures taken in the
U.S. have indeed reduced the number of people who died
from COVID-19.
However, it is well known that the spread of diseases is
generally reduced by limiting contacts, and that COVID-19
is spread by similar means as the cold and the flu. So it
is highly likely to be the case, and reasonable to
suppose, that such measures do make a difference.
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an
idea that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely
this kind of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It
might. But there's *no* science to back that up.
Interesting...
Got a name?
Got a link?
Got the name of the paper/periodical that this 'interview'
was printed in?
It's not interesting. Don't believe a word of it. Don't waste
time reading it. Not all fiction is boring, but this is.
https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covi
d-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/
Not the same article, but quite possibly the same guy.

He's smart enough to notice that the early predictions of
expotential growth would literally have over 100% of the population
infectd within a few weeks.

He's withing his field on this, and his numbers hold up.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-07 23:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 1:53:51 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
On 2020-05-06 2:45 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 5:56:15 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if
the quarantining has helped at all.
In a way, that is a true statement. It isn't possible to
prove, to the degree required of a mathematical proof,
that the various social distancing measures taken in the
U.S. have indeed reduced the number of people who died
from COVID-19.
However, it is well known that the spread of diseases is
generally reduced by limiting contacts, and that COVID-19
is spread by similar means as the cold and the flu. So it
is highly likely to be the case, and reasonable to
suppose, that such measures do make a difference.
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an
idea that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely
this kind of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It
might. But there's *no* science to back that up.
Interesting...
Got a name?
Got a link?
Got the name of the paper/periodical that this 'interview'
was printed in?
It's not interesting. Don't believe a word of it. Don't waste
time reading it. Not all fiction is boring, but this is.
https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covi
d-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/
Not the same article, but quite possibly the same guy.
Riiiiiiiight.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
He's smart enough to notice that the early predictions of
expotential growth would literally have over 100% of the population
infectd within a few weeks.
Give an example of those early projections that would have done that.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
He's withing his field on this, and his numbers hold up.
As if you're qualified to determine that...

...oh, wait!

You're an epidemiologist this week!
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:11:20 UTC
Permalink
On 2020-05-06 2:45 p.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 5:56:15 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the USA.
You do not know this for a fact. Nobody knows if the
quarantining has helped at all.
In a way, that is a true statement. It isn't possible to
prove, to the degree required of a mathematical proof, that
the various social distancing measures taken in the U.S.
have indeed reduced the number of people who died from
COVID-19.
However, it is well known that the spread of diseases is
generally reduced by limiting contacts, and that COVID-19 is
spread by similar means as the cold and the flu. So it is
highly likely to be the case, and reasonable to suppose,
that such measures do make a difference.
I was just reading an interview the other day with a Nobel
Prize winning biologist, who explained that there is *zero*
peer reviewed evidence that social distancing (which is an
idea that goes back 20-30 years as a response to precisely
this kind of pandemic) actually accomplished *anything*. It
might. But there's *no* science to back that up.
Interesting...
Got a name?
Got a link?
Got the name of the paper/periodical that this 'interview' was
printed in?
It's not interesting. Don't believe a word of it. Don't waste
time reading it. Not all fiction is boring, but this is.
<https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/second-wave-spanish-flu-wwi/>
There does not appear to be any references to peer reviewed
research there. Ergo, this does not conflict with the claim that
there's no peer reviewed research on the subject.

Plus, Snopes on a poltiically charged subject is literally less
credible than The Onion. Of course, you drink the same Kool-Aid as
they do, so you are literally incpable of understanding that. (And
a lot of other things, too, being a moron.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:13:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 1:37:19 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
Some epidemiologists, including at least
one Nobel Prize winner,
That's not quite accurate. Michael Levitt is a Nobel laureate,
but he is not an epidemiologist.
Yeah, that as a misstatement on my part.
That doesn't mean he can be dismissed out of hand. Statistics
are a piece of basic equipment in every scientist's tool kit, so
while it's easy to scoff at one guy putting a few numbers into a
spreadsheet, it has to be admitted there is a possibility he has
found something interesting.
He's well within his field, and his numbers can be easily verified
by anybody.
However, I can still be skeptical about his conclusions, and not
because I claim to "know better" than a Nobel Prize winner.
You see, what I do know is
HOW SCIENCE WORKS.
You know nothing about how science, or much of anything else,
works.
If you pick and choose the scientists that seem to support your
ideology,
Which is *precisely* what the doom criers and power grabbers are
doing. While showing an increasing tendency to be willing to use
violence to suppress dissent.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:20:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:13:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 1:37:19 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
Some epidemiologists, including at least
one Nobel Prize winner,
That's not quite accurate. Michael Levitt is a Nobel laureate,
but he is not an epidemiologist.
Yeah, that as a misstatement on my part.
That doesn't mean he can be dismissed out of hand. Statistics
are a piece of basic equipment in every scientist's tool kit, so
while it's easy to scoff at one guy putting a few numbers into a
spreadsheet, it has to be admitted there is a possibility he has
found something interesting.
He's well within his field, and his numbers can be easily verified
by anybody.
However, I can still be skeptical about his conclusions, and not
because I claim to "know better" than a Nobel Prize winner.
You see, what I do know is
HOW SCIENCE WORKS.
You know nothing about how science, or much of anything else,
works.
If you pick and choose the scientists that seem to support your
ideology,
Which is *precisely* what the doom criers and power grabbers are
doing. While showing an increasing tendency to be willing to use
violence to suppress dissent.
To preserve order.

And /they/ aren't the ones riding around in pick-em-up trucks shooting
African-Americans for jogging.

Well, that we know of at this point.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:13:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 1:37:19 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Some epidemiologists, including at least
one Nobel Prize winner,
That's not quite accurate. Michael Levitt is a Nobel laureate,
but he is not an epidemiologist.
Yeah, that as a misstatement on my part.
That doesn't mean he can be dismissed out of hand. Statistics
are a piece of basic equipment in every scientist's tool kit,
so while it's easy to scoff at one guy putting a few numbers
into a spreadsheet, it has to be admitted there is a
possibility he has found something interesting.
He's well within his field, and his numbers can be easily
verified by anybody.
However, I can still be skeptical about his conclusions, and
not because I claim to "know better" than a Nobel Prize
winner.
You see, what I do know is
HOW SCIENCE WORKS.
You know nothing about how science, or much of anything else,
works.
If you pick and choose the scientists that seem to support
your ideology,
Which is *precisely* what the doom criers and power grabbers are
doing. While showing an increasing tendency to be willing to use
violence to suppress dissent.
To preserve order.
Genocide is very orderly, yes.
Post by Paul S Person
And /they/ aren't the ones riding around in pick-em-up trucks
shooting African-Americans for jogging.
No, they're the ones who riot to try to overturn valid elections,
and wipe their ass with the Constitution as every possible
opportunity.

Rahm Emmanuel wasn't the first liberal to express the thought
“Never allow a good crisis go to waste. It’s an opportunity to do
the things you once thought were impossible.” but he certainly
captured the Left's only chance to retain power at this point.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:19:55 UTC
Permalink
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.

The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.

You have, as usual, zero credibility.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-07 23:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz said on the radio that 90% of the infected patients at his
cardiology practice are asymptomatic. He and his partners in NYC are
testing all of their patients as they come in. Since heart patients are
generally older, that is a surprise.

I always look around the waiting room at my cardiologist and realize
that I am usually the youngest person there which is sobering (two heart
attacks in 2009 and 2013, ablation surgery in 2018, missing right
coronary artery). I turn 60 next month.

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every single
one so far has had a full order of magnitude more positive
results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that was
testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using PCR
test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of a
false negative rate to almost certainly underreport - showed a
*much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than expected,
on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are less
informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never
had any symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize
what they had, or their immune system successfully fought it
off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*. Yet.
Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't think
I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 01:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every single
one so far has had a full order of magnitude more positive
results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that was
testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using PCR
test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of a
false negative rate to almost certainly underreport - showed a
*much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than expected,
on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are less
informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never
had any symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize
what they had, or their immune system successfully fought it
off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*. Yet.
Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't think
I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at Columbia
University since 2001.[25] He directs the Cardiovascular Institute and
Complementary Medicine Program at New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz

https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs

I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my business
partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in March. Really,
really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.

Lynn
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 02:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every
single one so far has had a full order of magnitude more
positive results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that
was testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using
PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of
a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage
tests are less informative so far, but they also strongly
suggest that there are a *lot* of people who have been
exposed, and either never had any symptoms, had such mild
symptoms they didn't realize what they had, or their immune
system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*.
Yet. Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't
think I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at
Columbia University since 2001.[25] He directs the
Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at
New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz
https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs
I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my
business partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in
March. Really, really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.
Do you also like his views on green coffee bean extracts for weight
loss? (He literally called them magic beans.)

Do you also like his views of psychics (who can't tell the
difference between someone who died in a car accident and someone
who committed suicide) as a medical treatment for stress?

Do you also like his views on homeopathy, which he has publicly
endorsed?

Do you also like his claim that saffron is a - his actual world
"miracle" weight loss drug, despite not a single badly done peer
reviewed study to back it up?

Do you also like his views on Reiki to help people survive _heart
surgery_?

There's a reason why so many people call him a quack, and so many
doctors think - and say - he *should* lose his medical license.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Titus G
2020-05-08 02:44:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every
single one so far has had a full order of magnitude more
positive results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that
was testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using
PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of
a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage
tests are less informative so far, but they also strongly
suggest that there are a *lot* of people who have been
exposed, and either never had any symptoms, had such mild
symptoms they didn't realize what they had, or their immune
system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*.
Yet. Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't
think I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at
Columbia University since 2001.[25] He directs the
Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at
New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz
https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs
I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my
business partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in
March. Really, really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.
Do you also like his views on green coffee bean extracts for weight
loss? (He literally called them magic beans.)
Do you also like his views of psychics (who can't tell the
difference between someone who died in a car accident and someone
who committed suicide) as a medical treatment for stress?
Do you also like his views on homeopathy, which he has publicly
endorsed?
Do you also like his claim that saffron is a - his actual world
"miracle" weight loss drug, despite not a single badly done peer
reviewed study to back it up?
Do you also like his views on Reiki to help people survive _heart
surgery_?
There's a reason why so many people call him a quack, and so many
doctors think - and say - he *should* lose his medical license.
Whilst I think Dimwire is very dim......
Are you guys talking about the same person?
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 5/7/2020 6:19 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every
single one so far has had a full order of magnitude more
positive results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC
that was testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver -
using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly
underreport - showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic
infections than expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients,
IIRC.) Sewage tests are less informative so far, but they
also strongly suggest that there are a *lot* of people who
have been exposed, and either never had any symptoms, had
such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had, or
their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*.
Yet. Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I
don't think I'd take his word for it that I still have a
heartbeat.
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at
Columbia University since 2001.[25] He directs the
Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at
New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz
https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs
I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my
business partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in
March. Really, really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.
Do you also like his views on green coffee bean extracts for
weight loss? (He literally called them magic beans.)
Do you also like his views of psychics (who can't tell the
difference between someone who died in a car accident and
someone who committed suicide) as a medical treatment for
stress?
Do you also like his views on homeopathy, which he has publicly
endorsed?
Do you also like his claim that saffron is a - his actual world
"miracle" weight loss drug, despite not a single badly done
peer reviewed study to back it up?
Do you also like his views on Reiki to help people survive
_heart surgery_?
There's a reason why so many people call him a quack, and so
many doctors think - and say - he *should* lose his medical
license.
Whilst I think Dimwire is very dim......
Are you guys talking about the same person?
I have no idea who or what Dimewire is, but we are both talking
about Dr. Oz.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 10:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at Columbia
University since 2001.[25] He directs the Cardiovascular Institute and
Complementary Medicine Program at New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz
https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs
I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my business
partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in March. Really,
really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.
as I understand it he's meant to be pretty good as cardiovascular surgery, the problem is the "complementary medicine" section
Hell, he pushes homeopathy, Reiki, faith healing and communication with the dead
He jumped on hydroxychloroquine despite there being shitty evidence
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:29:05 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 11:59:03 AM UTC+10, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Oz has been a professor at the Department of Surgery at
Columbia University since 2001.[25] He directs the
Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at
New York-Presbyterian Hospital.[26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz
https://columbiasurgery.org/mehmet-c-oz-md-facs
I like Dr. Oz views on minimally invasive surgery. One of my
business partners had open heart surgery in Feb and died in
March. Really, really, really sucked. I miss him a lot.
as I understand it he's meant to be pretty good as
cardiovascular surgery, the problem is the "complementary
medicine" section Hell, he pushes homeopathy, Reiki, faith
healing and communication with the dead He jumped on
hydroxychloroquine despite there being shitty evidence
He pushes Reiki _as part of the heart surgery_.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Titus G
2020-05-08 02:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*. Yet.
Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't think
I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
What a laugh.
Dr. Oz sounds like the typical role model the Dimwire would follow.
Titus G
2020-05-08 03:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Lynn McGuire
Dr. Oz
Didn't he lose his medical license? Apparently not *quite*. Yet.
Given all the snake oil he's been known to peddle, I don't think
I'd take his word for it that I still have a heartbeat.
What a laugh.
Dr. Oz sounds like the typical role model the Dimwire would follow.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 10:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz said on the radio that 90% of the infected patients at his
cardiology practice are asymptomatic. He and his partners in NYC are
testing all of their patients as they come in. Since heart patients are
generally older, that is a surprise.
What test is he using?
what's the false positive rate?
is he monitoring them to see if they're developing symptoms later?

If we take 10% as the actual rate of asymptomatic people that puts it as about 13,000,000 cases in the USA (1.3 million /0.1) which means that at 60% for herd immunity it needs over 15 times as many cases which means on the current death rate with 76952 fatalities it's over 1.1 million fatalities

That's ignoring
a) excess deaths suggests pretty strongly that there are more deaths caused by it
b) there are almost a million currently active cases and some of them will die
Chris Buckley
2020-05-08 14:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
That's ignoring
a) excess deaths suggests pretty strongly that there are more deaths caused by it
It's way, way too early to conclude that. Some of the excess deaths
are due to Covid-19 and some of the excess deaths are due to the
lockdown - people not getting the health care they normally get.
Non-Covid emergency room visits are way, way down; hospitals are
reporting 1/3 of their normal volume. There is no scientific evidence
that I've seen yet that measures the two effects; it's too difficult
and too early.

Anecdotal evidence: my mother lives in an individual care facility
(own apartment, not yet assisted living level of care) in Kansas,
county infection rate 1 in 2200. Three weeks ago, she had a
reasonably serious emergency room visit (lost all feeling below her
knees, couldn't walk) that would have been completely avoided in
normal circumstances. Luckily the base problem was simple (a UTI coupled
with severe dehydration) but still scary.

These seniors are not getting the personal and medical attention they
need. They are forbidden to visit each other, the excellent physical
fitness program there has been shut down, meals are being delivered
instead of having to walk to the dining room, visitors (anybody who
would personally know them and could spot problems) are forbidden. When
they go outside the facility (like my mother and her emergency room
visit), they have to self-confine themselves to their rooms for two weeks.
My mother has gone from using a cane to often not being able to manage
with a walker - her physical health has deteriorated along with her
mental health (tough to get excited about a day of watching TV and
reading books, and her memory is such that she can't do anything new
without lots of initial personal attention.)

This is a relatively high class facility; one that even though we
can't ever see her, we can at least arrange several visits a day by
staff who are willing to do things like trying to help her walk the
halls. I shudder to think what conditions are like in the more serious
facilities, and those that are much more shoe-string operations.

There is no question that this is shortening most of these seniors'
expected lifetimes and killing some of them. The question is at what
point do we relax the restrictions enough so they can get the care
they need. At this time we don't have the scientific evidence yet
to decide that, one way or the other.

Chris
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 18:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by h***@gmail.com
That's ignoring
a) excess deaths suggests pretty strongly that there are more deaths caused by it
It's way, way too early to conclude that. Some of the excess deaths
are due to Covid-19 and some of the excess deaths are due to the
lockdown - people not getting the health care they normally get.
Non-Covid emergency room visits are way, way down; hospitals are
reporting 1/3 of their normal volume. There is no scientific evidence
that I've seen yet that measures the two effects; it's too difficult
and too early.
Anecdotal evidence: my mother lives in an individual care facility
(own apartment, not yet assisted living level of care) in Kansas,
county infection rate 1 in 2200. Three weeks ago, she had a
reasonably serious emergency room visit (lost all feeling below her
knees, couldn't walk) that would have been completely avoided in
normal circumstances. Luckily the base problem was simple (a UTI coupled
with severe dehydration) but still scary.
These seniors are not getting the personal and medical attention they
need. They are forbidden to visit each other, the excellent physical
fitness program there has been shut down, meals are being delivered
instead of having to walk to the dining room, visitors (anybody who
would personally know them and could spot problems) are forbidden. When
they go outside the facility (like my mother and her emergency room
visit), they have to self-confine themselves to their rooms for two weeks.
My mother has gone from using a cane to often not being able to manage
with a walker - her physical health has deteriorated along with her
mental health (tough to get excited about a day of watching TV and
reading books, and her memory is such that she can't do anything new
without lots of initial personal attention.)
This is a relatively high class facility; one that even though we
can't ever see her, we can at least arrange several visits a day by
staff who are willing to do things like trying to help her walk the
halls. I shudder to think what conditions are like in the more serious
facilities, and those that are much more shoe-string operations.
There is no question that this is shortening most of these seniors'
expected lifetimes and killing some of them. The question is at what
point do we relax the restrictions enough so they can get the care
they need. At this time we don't have the scientific evidence yet
to decide that, one way or the other.
Chris
Jibes with my view that many "died from C19" should be reclassified as "died from the panic caused by reaction to C19"
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
It's way, way too early to conclude that.
Now when there's power to grab and political enemies to oppress.
Post by Chris Buckley
There is no question that this is shortening most of these
seniors' expected lifetimes and killing some of them. The
question is at what point do we relax the restrictions enough so
they can get the care they need.
When all the people who might vote the wrong way are dead, so they
can vote the right way.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-08 13:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz said on the radio
Dr. Oz? Is he a doctor like Dr. Laura? (i.e. he plays one on TV?).

Ah, I see he got his start on Oprah. Sigh.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every single
one so far has had a full order of magnitude more positive
results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that was
testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using PCR
test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of a
false negative rate to almost certainly underreport - showed a
*much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than expected,
on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that
there are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either
never had any symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't
realize what they had, or their immune system successfully
fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz said on the radio
Dr. Oz? Is he a doctor like Dr. Laura? (i.e. he plays one on TV?).
No, he really is a doctor, and a heart surgeon. Apparently, in
terms of actual heart surgery, he's pretty well regarded. It's all
the snake oil he peddles on the side that makes him a quack.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Ah, I see he got his start on Oprah. Sigh.
As a celebrity. He was already a pretty well respected surgeon at
that point.

I saw one critic comment that he wasn't a quack so much as a whore,
selling his name for anything that looks profitable.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 20:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
Dr. Oz said on the radio
Dr. Oz? Is he a doctor like Dr. Laura? (i.e. he plays one on TV?).
Ah, I see he got his start on Oprah. Sigh.
Heart surgeon and Professor at Columbia in NYC.

Lynn
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 09:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
That was a mistake, was meant to be 10% are symptatic
As the maths clearly shows...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests being
performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as realiable as PCR
tests, they are not useless. And every single one so far has had a
full order of magnitude more positive results than expected. (And one
hospital in NYC that was testing every pregnant woman coming to
deliver - using PCR test, with a negligible false postive rate and
enough of a false negative rate to almost certainly underreport -
showed a *much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than
expected, on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are
less informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never had any
symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize what they had,
or their immune system successfully fought it off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the narrative,
and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
And you've jumped on a typo without actually looking at the numbers
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:39:32 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 9:19:59 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
assume 10% are asymptomatic
That was a mistake, was meant to be 10% are symptatic
As the maths clearly shows...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
There are an increasing number of fairly large scale tests
being performed, and while the antibody tests aren't as
realiable as PCR tests, they are not useless. And every single
one so far has had a full order of magnitude more positive
results than expected. (And one hospital in NYC that was
testing every pregnant woman coming to deliver - using PCR
test, with a negligible false postive rate and enough of a
false negative rate to almost certainly underreport - showed a
*much* higher rate of asymptomnatic infections than expected,
on the order of 20%+ of patients, IIRC.) Sewage tests are less
informative so far, but they also strongly suggest that there
are a *lot* of people who have been exposed, and either never
had any symptoms, had such mild symptoms they didn't realize
what they had, or their immune system successfully fought it
off.
The only reason to assume 10% is because it supports the
narrative, and thus, the political agenda.
You have, as usual, zero credibility.
And you've jumped on a typo without actually looking at the
numbers
Perhaps you should have a grown up review your posts before you hit
"send." One who is not, like you, an idiot.

Once I see something as fucking *stupid* as "assume 10% are
asymptomatic" I don't really pay much attention to the rest. That
what you posted was the _exact opposite_ of what you now claim is
on you, not me, retard.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:21:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 May 2020 15:26:33 -0700, Alan Baker
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is
"worse" than H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you
are using statistics in a way that justifies Mark Twain's
comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why
is the current novel coronavirus causing a panic, whereas
flu is just routine? Because of who it kills. If you have
to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case
for the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu
vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of
health problems, is enough to make it likely to be fatal,
and plenty of healthy young adults have died as well...
that is a different matter. And that's what the novel
coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread,
yes, the death toll is limited to a number comparable
with that from a flu outbreak... when no such extreme
measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you
because of your political agenda, that is your problem -
and the problem of anyone silly enough to take you
seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the
USA. You do not know this for a fact.  Nobody knows if the
quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should /be/
obvious in about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still
around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment.  We have certainly
not reached herd immunity yet.
A number of countries have not imposed economy destroying
lockdowns. None of them have had their hospitals overloaded
(which is the *sole* justification for the lockdowns - to
"flatten the curve," because, according to the experts,
everybody will get it eventually, but we have to spread out
the timeline so that the hospitals can handle it). Some
epidemiologists, including at least one Nobel Prize winner,
question whether or not the lockdowns have done *anything*
other than destroy the economy, and there's a growing body of
a) it started earlier - everywhere - than has been assumed
b) it's aactually *more* contangious than has been assumed
c) At least an order of magnitude more people have either had
it with no symptoms, had it so mildly they didn't realize it,
or fought it off successfully.
d) which means it's a *lot* less deadly than has been
claimed.
These studies get dismissed out of hand because they don't
fit the panic narrative, and all of the social media
publishers are now actively suppressing anything that
disputes the official claims of the WHO, which hs *proven* to
be more motivated by the political desires of China than any
medical concerns.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die
off.
The Left has never been coy about their sincere desire for
anyone they disagree with to die. Preferably as the hands of
the Left.
Sweden has reputedly not locked anything down.  Their death
rate is running about 31% higher than the USA.  Their median
age, 41, is also higher than the USA, 38.
   https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
It's a different country with different social norms. Distancing
is something they do as a matter of course every day.
While it has not legislated or regulated a shutdown, people are,
in fact, voluntarily following guidelines about this.
They also have a far better healthcare system than the US.
As the USA doesn't /have/ a healthcare system, but only a
healthcare industry, this is rather a low bar.
Italy has a healthcare system.

(It also collapsed a few years back during a bad flu year.)

For that matter, Spain and France also have health care systems.

Virtual socialist paradises.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-07 23:23:16 UTC
Permalink
He's one of the people I don't
expend time on receiving communication from, but some
bleeds through.
I know a number of folks with that point of view.
They REFUSE to listen directly to what he says.....but beleeeeeve everything that the media SAID he says.
....one of the true marks of a fool....
And, of course, none of them understand: FYIYCTAJ
Donald Trump is not as stupid as he seems.

Much of what he says, he doesn't mean. But he has a sneaky
way of saying it, so that if you convert it to proper grammar
and then diagram the sentence, what he /literally/ said is
different from how it sounded. Like the thing about injecting
disinfectant.

Mostly, I refer to independent reporting to decide whether any
of this is meaningful and reliable. For instance that Snopes.com
judges that basically the President /did/ recommend injecting
yourself with domestic cleaning fluid. And I'm pretty sure
that they /like/ him.

In the case of him suddenly deciding that the pandemic
reminds him of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, I think I don't need
to be told by someone else what that is about.
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:00:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:23:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
He's one of the people I don't
expend time on receiving communication from, but some
bleeds through.
I know a number of folks with that point of view.
They REFUSE to listen directly to what he says.....but beleeeeeve everything that the media SAID he says.
....one of the true marks of a fool....
And, of course, none of them understand: FYIYCTAJ
Donald Trump is not as stupid as he seems.
Much of what he says, he doesn't mean. But he has a sneaky
way of saying it, so that if you convert it to proper grammar
and then diagram the sentence, what he /literally/ said is
different from how it sounded. Like the thing about injecting
disinfectant.
But ... but ... but ...

I don't have /nearly/ enough time to listen to him and then diagram
his sentences for him.

Indeed, I suspect that there are not enough hours in the day to do
that.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Mostly, I refer to independent reporting to decide whether any
of this is meaningful and reliable. For instance that Snopes.com
judges that basically the President /did/ recommend injecting
yourself with domestic cleaning fluid. And I'm pretty sure
that they /like/ him.
In the case of him suddenly deciding that the pandemic
reminds him of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, I think I don't need
to be told by someone else what that is about.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:25:58 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
So using a case, in 1968, where over a whole year, fewer
people were killed than in three months of COVID-19 despite
no attempt at quarantining the nation, to say that there was
an equally serious pandemic then - and no one got worried
about it - isn't reasonable. This kills people more than four
times as fast, despite taking measures to contain its spread?
Evidently those measures are warranted. It's reasonable to
expect things would be much worse if we had done nothing.
In the end, what matters isn't how fast it kills people, it's
total cases. If it kills four times as fast, but is over in 1/4
the time, it's exactly as serious.
I suppose that it being over in 1/4 the time, even if we did
nothing to contain its spread, is a *possibility*.
Every bit as plausiable as the doom crying, at this point, and
getting more so as time goes by.
We don't, however, have any evidence to suggest that is likely.
We have as much as we do to suggest it's unlikely.
What we have is evidence to suggest that a bigger proportion of
the people who catch it are killed.
No, we really don't. The research has a long ways to go, but the
large scale testing is pretty consistent in suggesting there are an
order of magnitude more asymptomatic people out there than has been
supposed.

The 1% mortality rate is based on the total number of infected
people, which is an estimate based on the number of deaths and an
estimated 1% mortality rate.

Even you should be able to see the flaw in that circle of (non-)
logic.
Which means it's more
important to keep people from catching it than it was to keep
people from catching the 'flu in 1968 was.
Not according to the same doom criers from a few weeks ago, when
they were saying "we have to implement a lockdown to flatter the
curve, because eventually *everybody* is going to catch it."
Literally, the same people.
Actions are taken based on what we _do_ know, not based on
unlikely possibilities that _might_ mean what we know doesn't
imply what it usually does.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 09:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
So using a case, in 1968, where over a whole year, fewer
people were killed than in three months of COVID-19 despite
no attempt at quarantining the nation, to say that there was
an equally serious pandemic then - and no one got worried
about it - isn't reasonable. This kills people more than four
times as fast, despite taking measures to contain its spread?
Evidently those measures are warranted. It's reasonable to
expect things would be much worse if we had done nothing.
In the end, what matters isn't how fast it kills people, it's
total cases. If it kills four times as fast, but is over in 1/4
the time, it's exactly as serious.
I suppose that it being over in 1/4 the time, even if we did
nothing to contain its spread, is a *possibility*.
Every bit as plausiable as the doom crying, at this point, and
getting more so as time goes by.
Remind us, weren't you saying Covid-19 was no big deal because world wide it had killed less than a standard USA flu-season
Now it's killed more than that in a couple of months in the USA and over 270,000 world wide
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
We don't, however, have any evidence to suggest that is likely.
We have as much as we do to suggest it's unlikely.
What we have is evidence to suggest that a bigger proportion of
the people who catch it are killed.
No, we really don't. The research has a long ways to go, but the
large scale testing is pretty consistent in suggesting there are an
order of magnitude more asymptomatic people out there than has been
supposed.
You've got to be a bit careful with those claims
Some of them are decidedly dodgy
(the doctors who based the infection rate on the people who came to their centre to be tested because they had symptoms, the tests done from facebook ads and with emails sent out saying that it could be used to get a certificate to work and not doing a proper assessment of false positives)

Then there's the difference between asymptotic and pre-symptoms
How many people who detect positive without showing symptoms go on to have symptoms
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The 1% mortality rate is based on the total number of infected
people, which is an estimate based on the number of deaths and an
estimated 1% mortality rate.
Even you should be able to see the flaw in that circle of (non-)
logic.
The USA has about 77,000 deaths and 217,000 recovered
That's over 25% of closed cases are fatalities
To get that down below 1% fatality rate needs there to already be 7.7 million infections that have run their course
Chris Buckley
2020-05-08 13:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
The USA has about 77,000 deaths and 217,000 recovered
That's over 25% of closed cases are fatalities
To get that down below 1% fatality rate needs there to already be 7.7 million infections that have run their course
And? The current best estimate is that New York State has over 2.6
million infections that have run their course, with a total mortality
rate of about 0.5%.

That's a very preliminary estimate that could be quite inaccurate
(nobody knows the true accuracy of the antibody test used), but it is
the scientific evidence we have right now.

Chris
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:45:34 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 9:26:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
So using a case, in 1968, where over a whole year, fewer
people were killed than in three months of COVID-19
despite no attempt at quarantining the nation, to say that
there was an equally serious pandemic then - and no one
got worried about it - isn't reasonable. This kills people
more than four times as fast, despite taking measures to
contain its spread? Evidently those measures are
warranted. It's reasonable to expect things would be much
worse if we had done nothing.
In the end, what matters isn't how fast it kills people,
it's total cases. If it kills four times as fast, but is
over in 1/4 the time, it's exactly as serious.
I suppose that it being over in 1/4 the time, even if we did
nothing to contain its spread, is a *possibility*.
Every bit as plausiable as the doom crying, at this point, and
getting more so as time goes by.
Remind us, weren't you saying Covid-19 was no big deal because
world wide it had killed less than a standard USA flu-season
At the time, that was certainly true. Do you dispute it?
Now
it's killed more than that in a couple of months in the USA and
over 270,000 world wide
It's still fewer dead than the average flu season. Faster, true,
but we really have no idea how long that will continue. No, you
don't, either, despite your masturbatory fantasies.

And now the power grabbers are predicting will will have _five
times_ the number of people die in the next month as we have in the
last four.

Yeah, I'm gonna take that shit seriously. Sure I am.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
We don't, however, have any evidence to suggest that is
likely.
We have as much as we do to suggest it's unlikely.
What we have is evidence to suggest that a bigger proportion
of the people who catch it are killed.
No, we really don't. The research has a long ways to go, but
the large scale testing is pretty consistent in suggesting
there are an order of magnitude more asymptomatic people out
there than has been supposed.
You've got to be a bit careful with those claims
Some of them are decidedly dodgy
If some of them are dodge, then the rest aren't. And _all_ of them
point in the same direction. *None* of them agree with the numbers
being touted. Not. One.
(the doctors who based the infection rate on the people who came
to their centre to be tested because they had symptoms, the
tests done from facebook ads and with emails sent out saying
that it could be used to get a certificate to work and not doing
a proper assessment of false positives)
Then there's the difference between asymptotic and pre-symptoms
How many people who detect positive without showing symptoms go on to have symptoms
And yet, you cannot point to a *single* study in which wide-spread
testing has produced results in the same order of magnitude as is
being supposed. Because there aren't any.

If you're not careful, Occam's Razor might cut an artery.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The 1% mortality rate is based on the total number of infected
people, which is an estimate based on the number of deaths and
an estimated 1% mortality rate.
Even you should be able to see the flaw in that circle of
(non-) logic.
The USA has about 77,000 deaths and 217,000 recovered
That's over 25% of closed cases are fatalities
Can you explain what is meant be "recovered cases"? Nobody else
seems to know, including the CDC.
To get that down below 1% fatality rate needs there to already
be 7.7 million infections that have run their course
Which would be entirely in keeping with the results of *all* of the
wide-spread testing that's been done so far. Pretend otherwise all
you want, those tests are what we have, and *none* of them support
your doom crying.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-07 23:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.

Whatever, I would like people who work at producing food
to take good care of their hygiene, please.
J. Clarke
2020-05-07 23:55:20 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
Post by Robert Carnegie
Whatever, I would like people who work at producing food
to take good care of their hygiene, please.
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-08 01:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.

Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?

"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."

Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 02:25:32 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
What is your point? You are on about "denying citizenship" and then
you link to a site that doesn't say anything about it.
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 05:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 1:10:55 PM UTC-6, Lynn
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot
vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be
kicked out of the country then so that, once proper PPE
and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country).
There are officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX
undocumented aliens. Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and
30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large
knives. If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to
name call in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering
that as racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Unless someone is willing to lie, of course, and make unfounded and
false accusations.

Perhaps "denied the rights of citizenship" would have been a better
way to say it, but the meaning was pretty clear.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-08 08:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Tell it to the actor George Takei.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
What is your point? You are on about "denying citizenship" and then
you link to a site that doesn't say anything about it.
The "Newsround" web page relates to news explained so that children
can understand it. Admittedly this is difficult when the subject
is President Trump. I included the page from Britvic after I found
that referring to mister yellow-face as "Tango" might be an
exclusively British reference requiring explanation.
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 10:02:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 8 May 2020 01:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Tell it to the actor George Takei.
On what date was his citizenship denied and by who?
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
What is your point? You are on about "denying citizenship" and then
you link to a site that doesn't say anything about it.
The "Newsround" web page relates to news explained so that children
can understand it. Admittedly this is difficult when the subject
is President Trump. I included the page from Britvic after I found
that referring to mister yellow-face as "Tango" might be an
exclusively British reference requiring explanation.
Still nothing to do with denying citizenship. I'm sorry, but calling
an idiot names is not advancing your argument.
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-08 10:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 01:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Tell it to the actor George Takei.
On what date was his citizenship denied and by who?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans>
is somewhat more complicated, but it's what I'm thinking of.

And he hasn't shut up about it since, so I expected you to know.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
What is your point? You are on about "denying citizenship" and then
you link to a site that doesn't say anything about it.
The "Newsround" web page relates to news explained so that children
can understand it. Admittedly this is difficult when the subject
is President Trump. I included the page from Britvic after I found
that referring to mister yellow-face as "Tango" might be an
exclusively British reference requiring explanation.
Still nothing to do with denying citizenship. I'm sorry, but calling
an idiot names is not advancing your argument.
I find it asthetically satisfying. It isn't actually a
slang term for "orange-coloured person", but on the other
hand, it has a harmonious congruence with "gringo".

My actual argument is that a citizen who is talking about
"our government" is in the wrong by referring to other
citizens as "them" from other countries, who are not Them,
but Us.

And I want him to be treated like this.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Man_%28advertisement%29>

"controversy after reports of injuries copying events of the advertisement"
Kevrob
2020-05-08 15:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 8 May 2020 01:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
If they can be denied citizenship they weren't citizens.
Tell it to the actor George Takei.
On what date was his citizenship denied and by who?
4-year-old George was interned during WWII, as were many another
natural-born American citizens of Japanese ancestry, along with
naturalized citizens born in Japan, such as his mother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/books/review/they-called-us-enemy-george-takei.html

SCOTUS allowed this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._US

Modern opinion is that the government went too far.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._US#2011_DOJ_admission_of_error
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
What is your point? You are on about "denying citizenship" and then
you link to a site that doesn't say anything about it.
The "Newsround" web page relates to news explained so that children
can understand it. Admittedly this is difficult when the subject
is President Trump. I included the page from Britvic after I found
that referring to mister yellow-face as "Tango" might be an
exclusively British reference requiring explanation.
In the US, "Tango" was a cheap bottled alcoholic cocktail.
It was, essentially, a screwdriver made with the cheapest
ingredients possible. "Tang" instant breakfast drink was/is
powdered orange drink. The astronauts drank it!

I have no idea how Tango, the booze, survived any trademark
challenge. The vile stuff was swilled by under-18ers (that
was the drinking age in New York when I was in high school,)
frequently in a car or parking lot, in a field or on the beach,
when nobody had been able to score anything better. I can remember
one girl who had too much of it. I had to fish her retainer out
of a puddle of vomit at the side of the road, before it oozed
down a storm drain. One hopes it was the booze that precipitated
this, rather than the kiss I stole in the backseat of the sedan my
buddy was driving, prior to the expulsion of fluid.
Post by J. Clarke
Still nothing to do with denying citizenship. I'm sorry, but
calling an idiot names is not advancing your argument.
Kevin R
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:34:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
Not to mention that many of the so-called "illegals" may well be from
families that were in Texas while it was still part of Mexico.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 19:42:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
By being denied citizenship. Verbally or of course actually.
Does <https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49004860> open for you?
"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen,
who originally came from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and
inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning
government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the
people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful
nation on earth, how our government is to be run."
Yeah, him, talking about "the squad", or Oh My God Colored Women,
who are mostly U.S. born and of course are citizens. Someone
who is part satsuma himself isn't entitled to complain that
"they" shouldn't express views about "our government".
"They" ARE people of the United States, tango.
<https://www.britvic.com/our-brands/brands-a-z/tango>
Not to mention that many of the so-called "illegals" may well be from
families that were in Texas while it was still part of Mexico.
You are just continuously spouting nonsense, aren't you.

You are talking about an event that happened almost 200 years ago, the
Texas revolution from Mexico (1835 - 1836). Texas then joined the USA
as a free nation in 1845 (see the Six Flags Over Texas). Due to our
crappy laws, any person born in the USA is automatically a citizen. I
don't know of anyone over the age of 120 in the USA. I did know a lady
who was 105 but she passed away in 2018 IIRC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 20:00:45 UTC
Permalink
Due to our crappy laws, any person born in the USA is
automatically a citizen.
I never would have pegged you as someone who would describe the
Constittuion as "crappy."

Live and learn, I guess.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 10:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 7 May 2020 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
Instead of forcing them back to work, they should be kicked out of the country
then so that, once proper PPE and other things are in place, Americans can take
those jobs when those jobs are safe for Americans, then.
John Savard
Good luck with that (kicking them out of the country). There are
officially 11 million illegals XXXXXX undocumented aliens.
Unofficially, somewhere between 20 and 30 million.
I'm visualising these ones in possession of very large knives.
If they actually are "undocumented". It's easy to name call
in that way, and a lot of citizens are suffering that as
racial abuse, even from the White House.
How is a citizen "abused" by references to noncitizens?
Because they don't look American and are targeted by Fox news fans
also see
https://www.thedailybeast.com/1488-us-citizens-mistakenly-arrested-detained-by-ice-since-2012
Kevrob
2020-05-07 23:30:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using
statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why is the
current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the
case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health
problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults
have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel
coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the
death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of
your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly
enough to take
you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the USA. You do not
know this for a fact. Nobody knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should /be/ obvious in
about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly not reached
herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die off.
I'd much prefer that they have to stay in bed and don't believe
in mail-in ballots.
I'd be just as happy if they voted -- so long as Trump lost.
Killing your own base to ensure that you lose is erratic, even for
Trump.
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
The conservative Heritage Foundation keeps a database of voter fraud
cases, including abuse of absentee ballots. What goes on, or is alleged
to go on in nursing homes and other facilities for the elderly is called
"vote harvesting" or "ballot harvesting." Heritage pints out the abuses
are bi-partisan.

[quote]

Heritage Foundation experts have long pointed out that voter fraud is
not particular to one party or ideology. At its core, people cheat in
elections to further their preferred causes or to advance their own careers,
and there’s nothing inherently conservative or liberal about the desire
to win.

[/quote]

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/more-proof-voter-fraud-real-and-bipartisan

Database link:

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

I'm a libertarian, not a conservative, and am not endorsing
Heritage's policy prescriptions to deal with this.

Kevin R
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 09:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
The conservative Heritage Foundation keeps a database of voter fraud
cases, including abuse of absentee ballots.
Yeah, 1200 cases going back to the 70s

It's obviously a huge problem
Post by Kevrob
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
I'm a libertarian, not a conservative, and am not endorsing
Heritage's policy prescriptions to deal with this.
Kevrob
2020-05-08 13:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
The conservative Heritage Foundation keeps a database of voter fraud
cases, including abuse of absentee ballots.
Yeah, 1200 cases going back to the 70s
It's obviously a huge problem
Post by Kevrob
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
I'm a libertarian, not a conservative, and am not endorsing
Heritage's policy prescriptions to deal with this.
It's a non-zero problem, and small numbers of fraudulent votes
can decide close elections. The harm is necessarily greater in
contests where the constituency has a smaller number of registered
voters, and low turn-out. The 2018 North Carolina 9th CD election
had to be re-run:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina%27s_9th_congressional_district_election

Note this was due to a bent Republican operative.

https://apnews.com/7fcfea814fe3479eb5623ce9511b09f0

Kevin R
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
The conservative Heritage Foundation keeps a database of voter fraud
cases, including abuse of absentee ballots.
Yeah, 1200 cases going back to the 70s
It's obviously a huge problem
Post by Kevrob
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
I'm a libertarian, not a conservative, and am not endorsing
Heritage's policy prescriptions to deal with this.
It's a non-zero problem, and small numbers of fraudulent votes
can decide close elections. The harm is necessarily greater in
contests where the constituency has a smaller number of registered
voters, and low turn-out. The 2018 North Carolina 9th CD election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina%27s_9th_congressional_district_election
Note this was due to a bent Republican operative.
https://apnews.com/7fcfea814fe3479eb5623ce9511b09f0
Yep, that's the /one/ widely-publicized case of voting fraud that we
will /not/ be hearing about in any Republican campaign.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-07 23:31:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 2:40:20 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:
[ snipping.......again ]
Killing your own base to ensure that you lose is erratic, even for
Trump.
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
Just don't ask you to prove it.
Hell no....I am not a NHA.

Just what they tell me.
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-07 23:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Trump _chose_ to make it about politics by standing in the way of sound
policies based on the best scientific knowledge.
Specific, documented incidents, please (not just "reports")
thanx
When Trump is stating that it is "15 cases" and will be "close to zero"
in a couple of days on February 26, that is standing in the way.
Dictionaries are available on line for "specific" and "documented".
Context might be useful, also.
This is specific and documented.
OK.......SHOW US.

[ SNIP apologetics ]
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-07 23:35:50 UTC
Permalink
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the conclusion is
obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most people just have
flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected significantly by a truly
bungled response to the virus, there will hardly be a family without some member
lost to it in such a case. That will change people's attitudes. They will feel
differently about going out shopping, and they will vote differently.
In addition to the swing voters, who changed an Obama victory one year to a
Trump victory in another, therefore, Trump is going to lose some of his base,
because they're not all hopelessly brainwashed. A quote from Benjamin Franklin
seems appropriate here: "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in
no other."
John Savard
You are, sadly, correct.

They will feeeeeel.

Too bad they won't think.
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-07 23:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Killing your own base to ensure that you lose is erratic, even for
Trump.
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
Boy, you sure are paranoid. And wrong, but you'll never provide
any citations to back up your bald assertions.
I can't....I'm not a NHA.......

If you have friends / family who are.......ask.
o***@gmail.com
2020-05-07 23:40:48 UTC
Permalink
It still sounds like declaring war on China before the election.
Today he was talking about Pearl Harbor and 09/11/2001.
Gee, what's on his mind. He's one of the people I don't
expend time on receiving communication from, but some
bleeds through.
Perhaps you should pay very close attention to everything Donald J. Trump says
and does over the next few days. After all, the People's Republic of China now
has a credible second-strike capability, so if he does do something rash, you,
as a resident of the United States, could potentially find your life endangered
by something _other_ than the novel coronavirus.
Incoming missiles with nuclear warheads have a way of ruining one's day.
However I'm pretty sure that they will induce people to stop worrying
about coronavirus.
Carlin had a line like that in his FIRST Tonight Show appearance as the hippy-dippy weather man.

After he forecast storms and thunder showers, he noted radar caught some roooskie ICBMS on the way in......

The line was: "I wouldn't sweat the thunershowers"
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-07 23:43:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between
now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected significantly
by a truly bungled response to the virus, there will hardly be a
family without some member lost to it in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.

I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.

In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single person
who knows a single person who has.

So I'm a little skeptical of your claim.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 00:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between
now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected significantly
by a truly bungled response to the virus, there will hardly be a
family without some member lost to it in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single person
who knows a single person who has.
So I'm a little skeptical of your claim.
The only person that I know who has it is my brother's business partner.
He and his wife both got it (they are both in their 60s), both spent
time in the hospital, and both stayed off the ventilator. They are home
now in quarantine. My brother has forbidden him from coming back to
work for the time being as they have about 500 employees.

I have heard that 2 people at my 2,500 person church have had it. I do
not know either person.

We've got a long way to go with this nightmare, I suspect that we will
be fighting it for at least two years. I doubt that we will get a
vaccine anytime soon. Although, one of the vaccines went to phase 2
trial today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/fda-approves-moderna-vaccine-candidate-for-phase-2-study.html

Our 850,000 person county (Fort Bend County, Texas) just had the 1,000th
person test positive. That is 1 / 850.

Lynn
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 01:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus, there
will hardly be a family without some member lost to it in such
a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
So I'm a little skeptical of your claim.
The only person that I know who has it is my brother's business partner.
He and his wife both got it (they are both in their 60s), both spent
time in the hospital, and both stayed off the ventilator. They
are home now in quarantine. My brother has forbidden him from
coming back to work for the time being as they have about 500
employees.
I have heard that 2 people at my 2,500 person church have had
it. I do not know either person.
We've got a long way to go with this nightmare, I suspect that
we will be fighting it for at least two years. I doubt that we
will get a vaccine anytime soon. Although, one of the vaccines
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/fda-approves-moderna-vaccine-cand
idate-for-phase-2-study.html
Our 850,000 person county (Fort Bend County, Texas) just had the
1,000th person test positive. That is 1 / 850.
Fort Bend County has a population density of about 400/sq mile.

Orangy County has a population density of about 4,000/sq mile.

The rate of coronavirus cases is 100/100,000 population, with 2
deaths/100,000 population. This is, BTW, as many cases as Orange
County has automobile *deaths* in 2014.

This is not, by any means, a sparsely populated area, and we've
gotten off lightly.

I'm more skeptical than ever about Quaddies claim of apocalypse.

(The restrictions are lifting here. Not because the governor/tyrant
is willingly doing so, but because people just aren't going to do
it any more. Either he lifts them slowly, or they just *end* all at
once. City and county level governments are leading the charge to
*force* him to pull his head out of his power mad ass.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2020-05-08 00:46:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned between
now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected significantly
by a truly bungled response to the virus, there will hardly be a
family without some member lost to it in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single person
who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it. Positive test, definite
diagnosis, all the standard symptoms. Absolutely miserable for two
weeks, now fully recovered.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 01:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus, there
will hardly be a family without some member lost to it in such
a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who does.

Your counterclaim does nothing to make Quaddie's idiotic claim
plausible.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Peter Trei
2020-05-08 02:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus, there
will hardly be a family without some member lost to it in such
a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who does.
Your counterclaim does nothing to make Quaddie's idiotic claim
plausible.
My NYC cousin passed 10 days after he tested positive.

Pt
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:38:25 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 9:59:39 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus,
there will hardly be a family without some member lost to
it in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk
factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who
does.
Your counterclaim does nothing to make Quaddie's idiotic claim
plausible.
My NYC cousin passed 10 days after he tested positive.
I didn't know him, either, and it's equally unlikely that anyone I
know did.

Again, nothing to make Quaddie's idiotic claim plausible.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2020-05-08 04:04:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 08 May 2020 01:59:37 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus, there
will hardly be a family without some member lost to it in such
a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who does.
Oh. You don't know me?

Okay.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Fri, 08 May 2020 01:59:37 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus,
there will hardly be a family without some member lost to it
in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who
does.
Oh. You don't know me?
No, I really don't. I know, so far as I remember, exactly one
person that I've ever run across on the internet, who happened to
be in town once. We did lunch.
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Okay.
Good.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 10:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Fri, 08 May 2020 01:59:37 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load, most
people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus, there
will hardly be a family without some member lost to it in such
a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with this
disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who does.
Oh. You don't know me?
Okay.
You expect Terry to pay attention to facts when they go against his preferred story/troll bait?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-08 19:28:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Fri, 08 May 2020 01:59:37 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 07 May 2020 16:43:04 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-6, Paul S
But when you look at the more ... daring ... states, the
conclusion is obvious.
The thing is, the House isn't going to be reapportioned
between now and November.
Not to mention that barring a high initial viral load,
most people just have flu-like symptoms for a while and
recover.
But while American demographics won't be affected
significantly by a truly bungled response to the virus,
there will hardly be a family without some member lost to
it in such a case.
I know several people who have some very serious risk
factors.
I don't know a single person who has been diagnosed with
this disease.
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know a single
person who knows a single person who has.
Hi. My niece and her boyfriend had it.
I don't know them. So far as I know, I don't know anyone who
does.
Oh. You don't know me?
Okay.
You expect Terry to pay attention to facts when they go against
his preferred story/troll bait?
About as much as I'd expect you to not be a drooling moron.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-05-08 06:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Incoming missiles with nuclear warheads have a way of ruining one's day.
However I'm pretty sure that they will induce people to stop worrying
about coronavirus.
I can't exactly see that as a plus.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2020-05-08 06:35:49 UTC
Permalink
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
1) Lift lockdown restrictions.

2) Wait.

Of course this is just my being fooled by paranoid fear-mongering by people who
are exploiting the situation to bring down Trump, whereas the truth that there
is really no problem has been explained by Nobel laureates even. Yeah, right.

That spreading far and wide is what infectious diseases *do*, and at least so
far, the novel coronavirus has been doing a good job of that, leading to obvious
common-sense conclusions, seems to somehow be escaping some people.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-05-08 10:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
I don't have a single person in my family with SARS-COV-2. Neither do
any of my seven employees. You are going to have to increase the
infection rate by at least an order of magnitude, maybe 2 or 3 orders
before every family in the USA loses a family member to the Chinese Flu.
1) Lift lockdown restrictions.
2) Wait.
If lifting lockdown restrictions and waiting will result in someone
dying then not lifting them and waiting longer will have pretty much
the same outcome, just delayed.
Post by Quadibloc
Of course this is just my being fooled by paranoid fear-mongering by people who
are exploiting the situation to bring down Trump, whereas the truth that there
is really no problem has been explained by Nobel laureates even. Yeah, right.
No, by fear-mongering people who are trying to turn themselved into
kings, with some success.
Post by Quadibloc
That spreading far and wide is what infectious diseases *do*, and at least so
far, the novel coronavirus has been doing a good job of that, leading to obvious
common-sense conclusions, seems to somehow be escaping some people.
The common sense conclusion is that if there is no vaccine for it
eventually I am going to get it no matter what I do. The
non-common-sense conclusion is that by practicing voodoo in the form
of wearing crappy masks that provide no protection and staying six
feet away from people and going broke I can somehow avoid getting it.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 06:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Yep.......you still "don't got it"
Look, if Trump was doing the right things, then we wouldn't see him saying stupid
things in news conferences and then muzzling the doctors at the CDC so that they
don't contradict him in public.
This is Sharpiegate all over again, but this time more deadly.
Stop interfering with scientists, stop muzzling scientists, stop contradicting
scientists. It is not the place of any layperson to do that, not even the
President of the United States.
But ... but ... but ...
then he couldn't rile up his Base!
1. Donald Trump.
You're missing his family, his donors, people who'll fluff his ego (dictators included)
2. The Base, at least insofar as voting in November goes.
3. The USA.
10,000. The rest of the world.
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Yep.......you still "don't got it"
Look, if Trump was doing the right things, then we wouldn't see him saying stupid
things in news conferences and then muzzling the doctors at the CDC so that they
don't contradict him in public.
This is Sharpiegate all over again, but this time more deadly.
Stop interfering with scientists, stop muzzling scientists, stop contradicting
scientists. It is not the place of any layperson to do that, not even the
President of the United States.
But ... but ... but ...
then he couldn't rile up his Base!
1. Donald Trump.
You're missing his family, his donors, people who'll fluff his ego (dictators included)
True, true.

The list should restart at, I suppose, around 5. Or perhaps 10.
Post by h***@gmail.com
2. The Base, at least insofar as voting in November goes.
3. The USA.
10,000. The rest of the world.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-08 07:05:40 UTC
Permalink
...
Right. So you can't actually answer the questions or present any evidence.
Got it.
And that's where you came in.
Got anything of substance to say?
Yep.......you still "don't got it"
(my apologizes to the gallery for not snipping. Just thought watching
him stamp his little feet would be illuminating...)
I killfiled Alan Baker a long time ago. Life is just too short to deal
with the crazy.
Likewise, and it would be nice if people stopped replying to him,
for then we would never see him at all.
How comforting that would be for you.
I only don't want to watch your verbal ping-pong games. I will
read honest, constructive, informative messages, if you write them;
you're not in my set of authors - mostly elsewhere - to delete
on sight. But if I see "rgbej avgfhn leerg" coming from you,
then it's "mark as read and forget" time. You should know better.
You should be better.
I've tried being better.
It doesn't work.
I don't like hypocrisy, I don't like bullshit, and I'm too old and tired
to put up with it at all anymore.
He used hypocrisy deliberately. He doesn't mean what he writes:
it is only calculated to provoke you into wasting some of your
irreplaceable life span in thinking about him responding.
He's a kind of brain vampire and his web is made of anti-thought.
Just stay away from it.
Dorothy has me killfiled, so where was literally no need for her to say
what she said. No need whatsoever. She can't claim ongoing exasperation
from reading what I post about her (which is almost never and always on
point), BECAUSE CLAIMS SHE KILLFILED ME A LONG TIME AGO, So why did she
chime in?
She said it so that she could snipe from her safe zone.
If Mrs. Heydt, a professional science fiction author of many
years who also shares insights from her rich personal life,
has not put me in her kill file as well, then she will see
this post written by me, including the bits that are yours.

I hope it isn't the straw that passes the camel's eye.
Yet it is to me you wrote the "you should stop" message.
Yes, it is. Please think about it again, carefully.
I do not think that I am being hypocritical.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-08 07:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Killing your own base to ensure that you lose is erratic, even for
Trump.
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
Boy, you sure are paranoid. And wrong, but you'll never provide
any citations to back up your bald assertions.
Hey, he knows what Fox tells him
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:01:28 UTC
Permalink
The question is not "did they have it when this started", it is "do
they have it _now_".
I wouldn't expect a meat-packing plant to be able to *acquire* PPE at a time
when hospitals can't get enough for their doctors.
So it's not a question of finding blame, it's a question of increasing
production.
Or of biting the bullet, acting as if the USA were a /nation/ instead
of a conglomeration of businesses, and reallocate PPE as appropriate.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:05:19 UTC
Permalink
The last I heard, chicken was more likely to run short than beef.
The stores my husband shops [I haven't been out of the house
since shelter-in-place went in] still have chicken; he may not be
able to find the exact *preparation* of chicken (skinless thighs,
e.g.), but there's always some sort of chicken. But then, we
live not terribly far from Petaluma, home of Foster Farms.
And the frozen veggie supply doesn't look to stable either. I nearly
had to go to canned veggies last Friday, but lucked out and managed to
score some of the frozen variety. The noose is tightening.
I have just asked my husband to add frozen broccoli, cauliflower,
and green beans to his list; we're getting low. I said to him,
"Man cannot live by zucchini in garlic butter alone," and he
said, "You CAN'T?"
"Slowly I turned. Step by step ...".
Are you quoting anything in particular? Interesting line, in any
case.
IIRC, it was from what, in The Days of My Youth, was my favorite
"road" movie. I don't remember the title; indeed, the only title I
/do/ remember is /The Road to Hong Kong/.

There were quite a few of them. They were /very/ popular in their day.

But this line was from the one set in North Africa, I think.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2020-05-08 17:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
The last I heard, chicken was more likely to run short than beef.
The stores my husband shops [I haven't been out of the house
since shelter-in-place went in] still have chicken; he may not be
able to find the exact *preparation* of chicken (skinless thighs,
e.g.), but there's always some sort of chicken. But then, we
live not terribly far from Petaluma, home of Foster Farms.
And the frozen veggie supply doesn't look to stable either. I nearly
had to go to canned veggies last Friday, but lucked out and managed to
score some of the frozen variety. The noose is tightening.
I have just asked my husband to add frozen broccoli, cauliflower,
and green beans to his list; we're getting low. I said to him,
"Man cannot live by zucchini in garlic butter alone," and he
said, "You CAN'T?"
"Slowly I turned. Step by step ...".
Are you quoting anything in particular? Interesting line, in any
case.
IIRC, it was from what, in The Days of My Youth, was my favorite
"road" movie. I don't remember the title; indeed, the only title I
/do/ remember is /The Road to Hong Kong/.
There were quite a few of them. They were /very/ popular in their day.
But this line was from the one set in North Africa, I think.
--
"Road to Morrocco" would be the North Africa one, but it didn't have
that routine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_To_Morocco

In the vaudeville routine that the Three Stooges, Abbott & Costello and
other comedy teams performed. "Niagara Falls" and "Susquehanna Hat Co"
were used as triggers, among others.

https://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/slowly.html

I don't remember Hope & Crosby doing it, but A&C did a version
in their 1944 film, "Lost in a Harem." See link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4CKoif7Wk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slowly_I_Turned

Kevin R
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:22:08 UTC
Permalink
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
Oh, yeah. We have to have identification requirements that make it hard for
black people to vote... because otherwise the Democrats would bus illegals into
the polling places. Mythical voter fraud as an excuse for voter nullification.
I've heard this one before.
It's not mythical -- you just don't understand how Republicans define
"voter fraud":

voting for Democrats

Just apply that definition to any statement they make on the topic and
what they say /immediately/ makes sense.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:23:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:56:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using
statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why is the
current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the
case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health
problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults
have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel
coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the
death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of
your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly
enough to take
you seriously.
John Savard
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the USA. You do not
know this for a fact. Nobody knows if the quarantining has helped at all.
With all the variations going on in the USA, it should /be/ obvious in
about three weeks.
Wave goodbye to the Trump Base, while they are still around.
Yes, we are running a grand experiment. We have certainly not reached
herd immunity yet.
I'm sad that you wish a segment of the population to die off.
I'd much prefer that they have to stay in bed and don't believe
in mail-in ballots.
I'd be just as happy if they voted -- so long as Trump lost.
Killing your own base to ensure that you lose is erratic, even for
Trump.
Those in health care facilities that vote by mail vote mostly D.......by the time the ballots reach the polling place.
Ask any nursing home administrator willing to speak off the record.
Must have a high death rate among those to sick to hobble to the
polls.

I take it that all those who /can/ hobble to the polls are required to
do so.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 17:31:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 14:10:49 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<snippage>
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced back to
work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who enslaved
them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/03/05/even-after-ice-raid-few-american-workers-showed-work-texas-meatpacking/
So, The Donald made ... /illegal workers/ ... essential?

Now /there's/ something for the Dems to bash him with!

If they can get up enough energy to actually /campaign/, that is.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-08 19:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 14:10:49 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<snippage>
Well, yes, he could.
But who do you think those meatpackers who are being forced back to
work voted for in 2016?
And who do you think they will vote for in 2020? The man who enslaved
them, or the other guy?
Anyway, it's not the base that elected Trump -- it was the
independents. And they, it seems, are not impressed with his
performance.
But only time will tell.
I am neither Team Elephant nor Team Donkey. I'm Team Porcupine!
Most of the meat packers are illegals. They cannot vote.
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/03/05/even-after-ice-raid-few-american-workers-showed-work-texas-meatpacking/
So, The Donald made ... /illegal workers/ ... essential?
Now /there's/ something for the Dems to bash him with!
If they can get up enough energy to actually /campaign/, that is.
No, the meat packing plant was able to drop their labor costs from
$15/hour to $11/hour by hiring illegals. Disgusting.

Lynn
Loading...