Discussion:
_Bringers of Hell (Tau Ceti Agenda)_ by Travis S. Taylor
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2019-08-08 21:32:54 UTC
Permalink
_Bringers of Hell (Tau Ceti Agenda)_ by Travis S. Taylor
https://www.amazon.com/Bringers-Hell-Tau-Ceti-Agenda/dp/1481483803/

Book number six of a six book military science fiction series. I read
the well printed and bound MMPB published by Baen. I do not know if
there will be any more books in the series but if there are, I will
purchase and read them.

The Chiata invasion of the Milky Way has been proceeding for thousands
of years. In 2409 AD, they are about 100 years (time, not distance)
away from Earth and The Sol System. The Chiata have already overwhelmed
many other alien species and know about Earthers. This book is a day in
one of the preliminary fights between the hundreds of trillions of
Chiata and the hundred billion Earthers, thousands of light years away
from Earth and Sol.

My rating: 4 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 3.7 out of 5 stars (9 reviews)

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2019-08-09 00:17:13 UTC
Permalink
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
Titus G
2019-08-09 04:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
The Amazon page for the 7 inch Kindle Oasis, gives its dimensions in
millimetres.
Jack Bohn
2019-08-09 16:27:54 UTC
Permalink
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)

It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare the previous year to have been UC 0000.
--
-Jack
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-08-09 16:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
--
-Jack
I like a LC (Long Count) format. Define the year 1 AD as

LC 1000000000001

the year 1 BC becomes

LC 1000000000000

the year 2 BC

LC 999999999999

AD 2019 becomes

LC 1000000002019
(SLC 2019)

For normal use, we use a short format and just drop all but the last
four digits. For historical BC dates we drop most of the '9's, ie
3125 BC becomes LC 999999996876 / SLC 996876. For doing the math, we
use all the digits.

This gets rid of the problem of BC figures aging backwards (or worse if they
cross the BC/AD line..), doesn't mess with current practice, and has enough
digits so that the start of the Universe can be moved backwards if necessary.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Mark Bestley
2019-08-11 12:59:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
--
-Jack
I like a LC (Long Count) format. Define the year 1 AD as
LC 1000000000001
the year 1 BC becomes
LC 1000000000000
the year 2 BC
LC 999999999999
AD 2019 becomes
LC 1000000002019
(SLC 2019)
For normal use, we use a short format and just drop all but the last
four digits. For historical BC dates we drop most of the '9's, ie
3125 BC becomes LC 999999996876 / SLC 996876. For doing the math, we
use all the digits.
This gets rid of the problem of BC figures aging backwards (or worse if they
cross the BC/AD line..), doesn't mess with current practice, and has enough
digits so that the start of the Universe can be moved backwards if necessary.
Astronomers have already solved that

It is the Julian day <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day>. OK not really including years.

It is the number of days since Monday, January 1, 4713 BC, proleptic Julian calendar

So before recorded history so no need top negative days.


--
Mark
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-09 18:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2019-08-09 18:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."

Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.

Time from the Lunar Landing

Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.

Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."

https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php

Kevin R
9 Aug, in the 243rd year of the USA
Robert Carnegie
2019-08-09 19:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
Kevin R
9 Aug, in the 243rd year of the USA
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Trump> - Asimov -
gives the apocalyptic "Day of Resurrection"
as January 1, 1957.

How an extension could be obtained for a project that
obviously isn't ready is considered - and explained to
Wikipedia readers.
David DeLaney
2019-08-09 20:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
As Vernor Vinge notes in passing, this is the one that's most likely to lie
buried in the foundations of computing for the foreseeable future, past when
AIs appear.

Dave, remember, to the future, we are history
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Lynn McGuire
2019-08-09 21:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Kevrob
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
As Vernor Vinge notes in passing, this is the one that's most likely to lie
buried in the foundations of computing for the foreseeable future, past when
AIs appear.
Dave, remember, to the future, we are history
The next computer date problem is just around the corner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

I changed my software to year 9,999 two decades ago. I doubt that I
will be around for that year. But I still have users using the old two
digit dates in our 1990s software.

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-09 22:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
Yes, but that isn't what I asked. I didn't ask what would be the
best date to begin counting from. I asked what date *does* UC
(aka Universal Century) stand for?

But since you're going to play it cute, I googled it.

A: Gundam anime.

Now really. You know me. Did you really expect me to know about
Gundam anime or Gundam anything?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-08-10 00:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,Â
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
Yes, but that isn't what I asked. I didn't ask what would be the
best date to begin counting from. I asked what date *does* UC
(aka Universal Century) stand for?
But since you're going to play it cute, I googled it.
A: Gundam anime.
Now really. You know me. Did you really expect me to know about
Gundam anime or Gundam anything?
Even after you google "Gundam anime", no, not really. :)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Kevrob
2019-08-10 02:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Now really. You know me. Did you really expect me to know about
Gundam anime or Gundam anything?
Even after you google "Gundam anime", no, not really. :)
BTW, I don't follow anime, and didn't get the Gundam reference.
I would have gotten a gorram reference.

I would have probably twigged to Macross, Area 99 or Gatchaman,
but I was visiting the comics shops back then and bought some of
the Viz/Eclipse "manga to comics" translations, or, if you
please, desecrations.

I did watch "8th Man," "Speed Racer," "Gigantor," "Kimba,"
"Astro Boy," "Marine Boy" and the like after school as a kid.

Jack Kirby used AD in "Kamandi: The Last Boy on Earth."
It took place on "Earth AD" - AD for "after disaster!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandi

Kevin R
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-08-10 11:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,Â
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent. Alas
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
Yes, but that isn't what I asked. I didn't ask what would be the
best date to begin counting from. I asked what date *does* UC
(aka Universal Century) stand for?
But since you're going to play it cute, I googled it.
A: Gundam anime.
Now really. You know me. Did you really expect me to know about
Gundam anime or Gundam anything?
Language!

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Jack Bohn
2019-08-11 21:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
I suppose this is a legacy of the French Revolution. (Legacy in the sense that the French Republican calendar lasted twice as long as the French Republic; interestingly, there seems to have been a market for conversion factors for some time afterwards in regards to contracts, and some ambiguity in leap years.) The A.D. thing had been gaining momentum for about a thousand years when this Novus Ordo Seclorum demanded its place as the turning point of history.

Is someone keeping a list of fictional future calendars? And conversion factors for dates?

What points have been used to date all subsequent events from? Scientific discoveries (and some fictional space exploration) have the feature of being somewhat obscure at the time, and only later recognized as significant. Later adopting it as the startpoint of our calendar allows us to install the advantages of a zero year without having to live through writing that on our checks. Using a still-future breakpoint allows your fiction some wiggle room in adjusting its future to actual developments.

How do sf time keeping refer to events BFE (Before Future Era)? Star Trek makes mention of the "twentieth century" as a phrase the characters would be familiar with. Past chronicles were okay with "...in the nth year of the reign of X..." when the current monarch couldn't get away with unpersoning the previous. But it seems allowing AD dates in books to stand is to invite continuing the system in parallel with the new one. Unless you also introduce an entirely new calendar. Perhaps with UC 0001 the spacenoids introduced an exactly 360 day year (all colonies are, I think, in Earth orbit, but are free of axial tilt that ties us to the seasons). One might guess the Foundation Era and Galactic Era before that were based on the years of Terminus and Trantor. Did the Encyclopedia Galactica mention any dates, probably in relation to Seldon, and in later works, that would be in GE?
--
-Jack
Moriarty
2019-08-11 21:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having, 
but this author may disagree.
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century)
the previous year to have been UC 0000.
UC dates from what year CE?
There are timepoints it might be more cromulent to count from
in this century, if we are in or moving towards a "new age."
Time from the Gagarin orbital flight.
Time from the Lunar Landing
Time from the first controlled atomic reaction.
Those in IT may be familiar with "Unix Time."
https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php
I suppose this is a legacy of the French Revolution. (Legacy in the sense that the French Republican calendar lasted twice as long as the French Republic; interestingly, there seems to have been a market for conversion factors for some time afterwards in regards to contracts, and some ambiguity in leap years.) The A.D. thing had been gaining momentum for about a thousand years when this Novus Ordo Seclorum demanded its place as the turning point of history.
Is someone keeping a list of fictional future calendars? And conversion factors for dates?
What points have been used to date all subsequent events from? Scientific discoveries (and some fictional space exploration) have the feature of being somewhat obscure at the time, and only later recognized as significant. Later adopting it as the startpoint of our calendar allows us to install the advantages of a zero year without having to live through writing that on our checks. Using a still-future breakpoint allows your fiction some wiggle room in adjusting its future to actual developments.
How do sf time keeping refer to events BFE (Before Future Era)? Star Trek makes mention of the "twentieth century" as a phrase the characters would be familiar with. Past chronicles were okay with "...in the nth year of the reign of X..." when the current monarch couldn't get away with unpersoning the previous. But it seems allowing AD dates in books to stand is to invite continuing the system in parallel with the new one. Unless you also introduce an entirely new calendar. Perhaps with UC 0001 the spacenoids introduced an exactly 360 day year (all colonies are, I think, in Earth orbit, but are free of axial tilt that ties us to the seasons). One might guess the Foundation Era and Galactic Era before that were based on the years of Terminus and Trantor. Did the Encyclopedia Galactica mention any dates, probably in relation to Seldon, and in later works, that would be in GE?
I can't remember dates in "Foundation" but I do recall in "The End of Eternity" that the protagonist was perplexed at the idea that the First Century wasn't actually the first, and that there were other centuries before it.

-Moriarty

Jack Bohn
2019-08-09 19:26:32 UTC
Permalink
How about dates like UC 0079? (Universal Century) 
 
It was created before awareness of the Y2K problem its format would 
circumvent, although projected to be adopted in the 21st Cent.  Alas 
seemingly beginning with Year One, although I suppose they could declare 
the previous year to have been UC 0000. 
UC dates from what year CE? 
From approximately the point more people were living in space than on Earth. I was just listening to a podcast sifting various interpretations for the author's original intent, but I believe the original intent was mot to have to put a specific year to it.
--
-Jack
Lynn McGuire
2019-08-09 19:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
Is this just a personal preference or is this actually a recommended style ?

I do remember that most, if not all of the measurements were in the
metric system.

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2019-08-09 19:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
Is this just a personal preference or is this actually a
recommended style ?
AD stands for "(in) the year of our Lord" (Anno Domini)
and is followed by the number.

Not everyone gets it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_%28comics%29>
Post by Lynn McGuire
I do remember that most, if not all of the measurements were in the
metric system.
Hooray! ...Including the calendar? Star Trek did it!
Lynn McGuire
2019-08-09 19:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
Is this just a personal preference or is this actually a
recommended style ?
AD stands for "(in) the year of our Lord" (Anno Domini)
and is followed by the number.
Not everyone gets it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_%28comics%29>
Post by Lynn McGuire
I do remember that most, if not all of the measurements were in the
metric system.
Hooray! ...Including the calendar? Star Trek did it!
I note that you did not answer my question. I have seen the AD after
the year in many places.
https://www.amazon.com/Daybreak-D-original-title-F-323/dp/B002Z541W6/

When I think of the metric system, I think of hours. I was not aware
that the metric system had an official date format.

BTW, the author actually listed the 2409 date as:

"July 24, 2409 AD
Arlington Cemetery
Arlington, Virginia
Earth, the Sol System
Saturday, 6:30 A.M. Eastern Time"

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2019-08-09 21:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I prefer dates like "AD 2409" if that's what you're having,
but this author may disagree. Is it vain to hope they
use the metric system at least...
Is this just a personal preference or is this actually a
recommended style ?
AD stands for "(in) the year of our Lord" (Anno Domini)
and is followed by the number.
Not everyone gets it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_%28comics%29>
Post by Lynn McGuire
I do remember that most, if not all of the measurements were in the
metric system.
Hooray! ...Including the calendar? Star Trek did it!
I note that you did not answer my question. I have seen the AD after
the year in many places.
https://www.amazon.com/Daybreak-D-original-title-F-323/dp/B002Z541W6/
Well, the other way is the house style of God.
Is that not an answer? Although I'm not religious...
Post by Lynn McGuire
When I think of the metric system, I think of hours. I was not aware
that the metric system had an official date format.
"July 24, 2409 AD
Arlington Cemetery
Arlington, Virginia
Earth, the Sol System
Saturday, 6:30 A.M. Eastern Time"
Arlington Cemetery apparently doesn't use the style -
or use <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar>
which has "A.M." as the year number label, we're told.

Going by photos online, anyway.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-09 22:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"July 24, 2409 AD
Arlington Cemetery
Arlington, Virginia
Earth, the Sol System
Saturday, 6:30 A.M. Eastern Time"
Heh. I remember when I was in the hospital with pancreatitis and
fighting off severe pain with the aid of lots of Demerol, and one
of the staff wandered by and said, "Do you know where you are?"

Which I did, including the room number (which I have since
forgotten, this was 1998) and I indignantly replied,

"Room number [number]
Alta Bates Hospital
Berkeley
California
United States
Sol 3
Sirius Sector." (the last from some early works of Asimov)

They refrained from asking me that question again.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Leif Roar Moldskred
2019-08-11 09:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
When I think of the metric system, I think of hours.
The metric unit for time is the second, and Vernor Vinge
used kiloseconds and megaseconds as conversational units
of time in some of his books.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I was not aware
that the metric system had an official date format.
It doesn't, but there does exist an ISO standard for
dates, ISO-8601, but it's based on the Gregorian
calendar and only covers dates earlier than AD 1583
or later than AD 9999 with caveats.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred
Robert Carnegie
2019-08-11 10:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by Lynn McGuire
When I think of the metric system, I think of hours.
The metric unit for time is the second, and Vernor Vinge
used kiloseconds and megaseconds as conversational units
of time in some of his books.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I was not aware
that the metric system had an official date format.
It doesn't, but there does exist an ISO standard for
dates, ISO-8601, but it's based on the Gregorian
calendar and only covers dates earlier than AD 1583
or later than AD 9999 with caveats.
Captain Kirk used star dates, and they were decimal.
I think Jonathan Archer used star dates latterly,
I may be wrong.

In doubtfully canonical _Spock Must Die!_, James Blish
(and/or his wife?) has Kirk refer to all ten hours of
the day; in a log entry, I think.

There are 86,400 seconds in our 24 hour day, so
if the second was shortened then we could make it 100,000
as a minor change for convenience. Or find a new planet
whose day is longer, but research indicates that people
don't do well with a longer than 24 hour sleep cycle.
Default User
2019-08-11 19:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by Lynn McGuire
When I think of the metric system, I think of hours.
The metric unit for time is the second, and Vernor Vinge
used kiloseconds and megaseconds as conversational units
of time in some of his books.
As did Joan Vinge in the Heaven Belt stories.


Brian
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