Discussion:
A Fine and Private Place - no spoilers
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t***@gmail.com
2019-11-07 13:31:25 UTC
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A recent subthread mentioning Andrew MarveIl's To His Coy Mistress reminded
me that I hadn't gotten around to reading Peter Beagle's A Fine and Private Place,
so I remedied that a few days ago.

I have mixed feelings about it. It feels like a book that could show up on assigned
reading lists for high school students. It seems like there might be Themes, and
Resonances, and Other Literary Things going on under the surface for the careful
reader.

I didn't put too much effort into my reading of it, and it was...fine. There's a lot of
talking between a small number of characters, and not much else goes on. As such,
it seems like it could be adapted into a stage play pretty easily. It was entertaining.

I do want to mention that I thought the writing was fantastic - very high quality,
subtle in the right ways, not overbearing or over-obvious, etc. It amazes me that
not only is this Beagle's first novel, but also that it was written when he was 19. Wow.

The only other Beagle I've read is The Last Unicorn, which I felt was very good.
I'm wondering what else of his I could try (if any).

Tony
p. pinto
2019-11-07 14:25:07 UTC
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- hi; "lila the werewolf", a novelette, and the short story, "come,
lady death", are both well worth finding, as is the travelogue-(?)
novel(?), "_i see by my outfit_" of two young men put-putting from
one coast to t'other on their mopeds; "_the innkeeper's song_" is
*not* a fantasy novel (despite being sold as one), but a (very fine)
fantasy story cycle, recounting its events from the rather different
viewpoints of its players; somewhat unsettling in parts, perhaps.

(i didn't succeed in getting into "_the folk of the air" when it
was published here in 1987, so i can't recommend it: istr that i
tried twice, and got no further into it the second time. i may
try once more, cos i don't like bouncing off - or simply losing
interest in - any work by an author who's given me a fair amount
of enjoyment despite their having written really so little.

- love, ppint.
--
"life is sensational!"
(inadvertently multiply-punning exclamation made by)
jackie mathews
summer (july-august-september) 1978
(co-inmate of 40 regent street)
Quadibloc
2019-11-07 16:22:17 UTC
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It isn't a spoiler, of course, to suspect that this book is in some way about
death... "none, I think, do there embrace".

John Savard
p. pinto
2019-11-07 23:59:31 UTC
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- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
most people know aught of - or, indeed, know of, at all:

"to his coy mistress" (published posthumously in 1681)

"had we but world enough, and time,
this coyness, lady, were no crime
we would sit down and think which way
to walk and pass our long love's day
thou by the indian ganges' side
should'st rubies find: i, by the tide
of humber would complain; i would
love you ten years before the flood
and you should, if you please, refuse
until the conversion of the jews.
my vegetable love should grow
vaster than empires, and more slow;
an hundred years should go to praise
thine eyes and upon thy forehead gaze,
two hundred to adore each breast,
but thirty thousand to the rest;
an age, at least, to ev'ry part:
and the last age should show thy heart
for lady, you deserve this state,
nor would i love at lower rate.

"but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near;
and yonder before us all lie
deserts of vast eternity.
thy beauty shall no more be found
nor in thy marble vault shall sound
my echoing song; then worms shall try
that long preserv'd virginity,
and your quaint honour turn to dust,
and into ashes all my lust.
the grave's a fine and private place,
but none, i think, do there embrace.

"now therefore, while the youthful hue
sits on thy skin like morning dew,
and while thy willing soul transpires
at ev'ry pore with instant fires,
now let us sport us while we may;
and now, like am'rous birds of prey,
rather at once our time devour,
than languish in his slow-chapt power.
let us roll all our strength and all
our sweetness up into one ball,
and tear our pleasures with rough strife
thorough the iron gates of life:

"thus, though we cannot make our sun
stand still, yet we will make him run."

- andrew marvell 1621-1678

- the poem's phraseology and imagery has been mined for
many sf and fantasy titles, themes, and more or less
literal interpretations and inspirations, over seven or
more decades: and some are classics, well worth reading
and re-reading, still.

- love, ppint.
--
'tis due to ppinqueans that set light
to nelson's hat
it glows at night
Quadibloc
2019-11-08 02:42:14 UTC
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Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.

But then, perhaps they feel that there's really no danger of giving them ideas
they do not already have.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-11-08 14:13:02 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
But then, perhaps they feel that there's really no danger of giving them ideas
they do not already have.
Oh, believe me, they have; even in my distant childhood I was
familiar with the line "What are you saving it for?" although it
was never applied to me.

(You know the classical high school pair, the most beautiful girl
in the school and her ugly friend? I was the ugly friend. I got
less ugly as time went on.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
William Hyde
2019-11-08 20:13:28 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.

In our case, we were exposed only to two lines:

but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near

given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?

There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.

The only books in the library with a remotely adult view of sex were those written in French. I suspect the library censor's French was even worse than mine (which was not good) so books got in which would never have qualified if in English.

William Hyde
p***@hotmail.com
2019-11-09 00:56:03 UTC
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Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
William Hyde
2019-11-09 21:09:36 UTC
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.

Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.


William Hyde
Paul S Person
2019-11-10 17:54:40 UTC
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On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
That was in the 50s, right?

Today, the best year of all time would be 19/5/1.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
William Hyde
2019-11-10 19:57:47 UTC
Reply
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Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.

William Hyde
Paul S Person
2019-11-11 17:29:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.

The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.

I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.

They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-11-11 18:47:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.

*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.

I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-11-11 22:43:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
A former friend of mine at one point worked with a civilian corps team
that helped to dismantle some of the Nike sites in what is now The
Golden Gate Recreational Area. This would have been in the late 1970s
or early 1980s. He and a co-worker found two decommissioned Nike
missiles (with dummy warheads) in a deep bunker that still had a working
weapons elevator. The crews would spend their nights camped at the
work sites. One evening while the rest of the crew was gathered around
the camp fire the two of them loaded the the missiles on the elevator,
unpacked a bunch of dry ice and took the elevator up to the surface.
Just outside the crew's camp. :D
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
William Hyde
2019-11-11 23:44:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
A fairly early memory is of worrying about the possible radioactive fallout from the Tsar device while I was out gathering Halloween candy. I thought the Russians could have been considerate enough to explode their bomb on a night when we'd all be indoors. Must have heard something about this on the radio, I certainly wasn't reading much yet.

I remember studying maps of the possible effect of a nuclear strike on Toronto. If they hit the downtown core with whatever megatonnage was common in those days we'd be in the 99% survival area, I noted. And the wind would blow the cloud away from us. But by then I was going downtown fairly often.

The good old days!

William Hyde
Paul S Person
2019-11-12 17:29:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
Indeed. Those are the Traditional Values the Republican Party has
pledged (in its Platform) to support.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.

Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.

If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.

It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.

You know, just in case.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
p***@hotmail.com
2019-11-12 17:46:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
Indeed. Those are the Traditional Values the Republican Party has
pledged (in its Platform) to support.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
In one of his stories, Dean Ing described how to rig a house for
positive pressure ventilation to keep out fallout particles, using
toilet paper rolls as the filter elements.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Kevrob
2019-11-12 18:23:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
Indeed. Those are the Traditional Values the Republican Party has
pledged (in its Platform) to support.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
In one of his stories, Dean Ing described how to rig a house for
positive pressure ventilation to keep out fallout particles, using
toilet paper rolls as the filter elements.
I seem to remember Ing writing several non-fiction articles in DESTINIES
that dealt with surviving nuclear war. I'm sure I learned the "toilet paper
air filter" from one of those, or perhaps in NEW DESTINIES or some other
SF mag article.

Kevin R
James Nicoll
2019-11-12 18:25:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:57:47 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:09:36 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high
school to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be
taught in high school.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send
a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I
done?
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any
poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Post by p***@hotmail.com
"Like a jewel, Diaspar lay upon the breast of the desert."
I suppose the non-anatomical use of "breast" would have been
allowed. But that book, as it happens, was not in the library, though
other works by Clarke were. Presumably a coincidence.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
Few people vote for school board trustee, so a committed minority
can elect their own people. In this case a minority dedicated to
preserving the values of the best year of all time, 1901.
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
That was in the 50s, right?
Circa 1970. The times they were a-changing, but the school board was not.
Actually, that's not surprising.
The 1962 /Music Man/ was very popular.
I suspect it was because the Greatest Generation and their parents
felt it was set in the Golden Age (in this case, about 1910, I think).
They would be appalled to learn that the 1950s are now considered the
Golden Age.
They lived through the 50s. They /know/ they were not Golden.
People who think the 50s were Golden are those who wish women and
minorities still knew their place.
Indeed. Those are the Traditional Values the Republican Party has
pledged (in its Platform) to support.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
In one of his stories, Dean Ing described how to rig a house for
positive pressure ventilation to keep out fallout particles, using
toilet paper rolls as the filter elements.
I seem to remember Ing writing several non-fiction articles in DESTINIES
that dealt with surviving nuclear war. I'm sure I learned the "toilet paper
air filter" from one of those, or perhaps in NEW DESTINIES or some other
SF mag article.
Also in his PULLING THROUGH. `
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
David DeLaney
2019-12-01 11:34:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
In one of his stories, Dean Ing described how to rig a house for
positive pressure ventilation to keep out fallout particles, using
toilet paper rolls as the filter elements.
ObSF: _A Pail of Air_.

Dave, blowups happen
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-11-12 19:11:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
I never had to do "duck and cover" drills in school, as it
happened. But I'd been reading science fiction since about 1950,
and there was plenty of atomic-war and post-atomic-war
speculation therein. Scared the living etcetera out of me.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
There was a lot of that. There still is, but modern-day
"survivalists" are more interested in defense against their
neighbors than against bombs.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-11-12 19:30:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
I never had to do "duck and cover" drills in school, as it
happened. But I'd been reading science fiction since about 1950,
and there was plenty of atomic-war and post-atomic-war
speculation therein. Scared the living etcetera out of me.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
There was a lot of that. There still is, but modern-day
"survivalists" are more interested in defense against their
neighbors than against bombs.
And "Duck & Cover" is good advice. Nothing's going to save you
from a close hit, but lots of people survived in Hiroshima -- which you
won't if you get hit by falling debris.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-11-12 20:42:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
I never had to do "duck and cover" drills in school, as it
happened. But I'd been reading science fiction since about 1950,
and there was plenty of atomic-war and post-atomic-war
speculation therein. Scared the living etcetera out of me.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
There was a lot of that. There still is, but modern-day
"survivalists" are more interested in defense against their
neighbors than against bombs.
And "Duck & Cover" is good advice. Nothing's going to save you
from a close hit, but lots of people survived in Hiroshima -- which you
won't if you get hit by falling debris.
Actually, when you need to duck and cover is during an
earthquake. (Do NOT run outside, unless your building is made of
unreinforced brick; elements of the roof can slide off and hit
you just as you make your exit. Particularly if they're Spanish
tile.)

My husband was in a meeting with a lot of administrative types in
a boardroom when the Coalinga earthquake hit. He got under the
table and waited for the shaking to stop. Meanwhile, the
administratives were asking him, "What are you doing!?!" He
replied, "Just what you *should* be doing!" And they said, "Oh,
yeah, you're right," but by then the shaking had stopped.

I, on the other hand, had had to leave work because of an intense
migraine, and when the shock hit I was sitting on a bench waiting
for my bus to come. I felt the shaking, but attributed it to a
couple of teeagers bouncing around on the other end of the bench,
and found out only later.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2019-11-13 00:00:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
And "Duck & Cover" is good advice. Nothing's going to save you
from a close hit, but lots of people survived in Hiroshima -- which you
won't if you get hit by falling debris.
Actually, when you need to duck and cover is during an
earthquake. (Do NOT run outside, unless your building is made of
unreinforced brick; elements of the roof can slide off and hit
you just as you make your exit. Particularly if they're Spanish
tile.)
My husband was in a meeting with a lot of administrative types in
a boardroom when the Coalinga earthquake hit. He got under the
table and waited for the shaking to stop. Meanwhile, the
administratives were asking him, "What are you doing!?!" He
replied, "Just what you *should* be doing!" And they said, "Oh,
yeah, you're right," but by then the shaking had stopped.
I, on the other hand, had had to leave work because of an intense
migraine, and when the shock hit I was sitting on a bench waiting
for my bus to come. I felt the shaking, but attributed it to a
couple of teeagers bouncing around on the other end of the bench,
and found out only later.
In my 1960s elementary school, which had been built at the end of the
sixth decade of the 20th century out of cinder-block stone and a lot of glass,
they would herd us into the interior corridor of the school, make us sit with
out backs to the walls of the classrooms, facing each other, and place our
hands behind our heads and crouch down.

I suppose we would have been protected from the light created by an air
burst, with ground zero being Times Square, 60 miles to the west. To our
immediate east were Brookhaven National Laboratory and some anti-missile
missile sites: Nike, and Atlas, too, I think.

See http://ed-thelen.org/index.html#loc for a Nike site near you,
or where you used to live!

We were very worried about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm

Given the pounding the military and naval facilities would have
received, as well as the counter-value effect of just destroying
the financial and media capital of the USA, we fully expected a
firestorm on Manhattan and perhaps in the surrounding boroughs to
devastate Long Island, also. It isn't like there were any natural
barriers, like mountains, to keep from sucking all the oxygen
into the inferno. Shelters or no shelters, we figured we'd all be toast,
or asphyxiated while the rest of the area burned.

In the popular media, it seems the firestorm threat was overblown, not to
coin a phrase. We would probably have more to fear from a warhead from
a MIRV that was off-target, and landed somewhere along the LIE.

If we lost access to water from the underground aquifer due to
the electrical network failing and pumps being rendered useless,
dying of thirst or from drinking contaminated groundwater would
be a much more real concern. Without a working natural gas pipeline,
a lot of people would freeze in the cold. Heating oil and bunker oil
for generating electricity could be brought in by sea at places like
Port Jefferson, if the LILCO plant survived, but there I can't
imagine the tank farms in northern New Jersey wouldn't have burned.
By 1975 there was no local reining capacity to speak of. Everything
had to be piped from the Gulf, or sent by tanker.

If "blue coastal cities" split from the "red interior," getting
petrochemicals to heat the Big Town will be a problem. NYC would
have to take over the Catskill region to make sure it had a
dependable water supply.

Who remembers this crack?

[quote]

Twenty-two years ago, as a Democratic strategist working on a gubernatorial race, (James) Carville described the state as Paoli (a suburb of Philadelphia) and
Penn Hills (a suburb of Pittsburgh) with Alabama in between.

[/quote] -

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/04/extreme-makeover-pennsylvania-edition-009323

See also:

https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/pennsylvania_pennsylvania_is_philadelphia

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2019-11-12 20:45:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
I never had to do "duck and cover" drills in school, as it
happened. But I'd been reading science fiction since about 1950,
and there was plenty of atomic-war and post-atomic-war
speculation therein. Scared the living etcetera out of me.
"I thought that if the world was going to end we were meant
to lie down or put a paper bag over our head or something."
"If you like, yes." "Will that help?" "No."
Lynn McGuire
2019-11-13 01:06:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 11/12/2019 11:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
...
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*I* lived through the 50s. They were dominated by fear of the
Cold War turning hot.
As did I, and, yes, it was.
Something the animated film /The Iron Man/ lampoons quite well.
If you haven't seen it, let me warn you -- you will never think of
"duck and cover" the same way again if you do!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have, somewhere on my bookshelves, a little guide to what is
now a small park, site of a former Nike missile base. The
buildings have been torn down to the foundations and, obviously,
there are no missiles. Instead, there are signs indicating what
the former buildings were and what they were for. It's intended
for field trips for schoolchildren. And the guidebook begins by
explaining what the Cold War was and what the USSR was and why
the missile base.
I have a pamphlet the Federal Government sent out to, I suppose, a
whole of people, one of which was my dad.
It explained how to equip our property with a bomb shelter.
You know, just in case.
Hey, bomb shelters are good for more than just bombs. There are also
alien invasions. For instance, John Goodman's finest performance
(scared the you know what out of me):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Cloverfield_Lane

Lynn
Chrysi Cat
2019-11-09 08:41:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school to such a
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught in high school.
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
The only books in the library with a remotely adult view of sex were those written in French. I suspect the library censor's French was even worse than mine (which was not good) so books got in which would never have qualified if in English.
William Hyde
Ahhh, the disadvantages of being in high school in either the 70s, a
conservative town, or both!

My HS library had Danielle Steel and Jackie Collins, and was purchasing
Stephen King's and Dean Koontz's works as they came out (actually, they
were purchasing the romances as they came out too. And I think they even
bought a copy of Mario Puzo's final work while I was there). But then,
my high school is in a socially-liberal upscale suburb in Colorado and I
was born while you were in high school or even after that. [Arapahoe
High School--yes, THAT one. I don't /think/ that has anything to do with
"why my high school wound up on the 'pray for x' list in 2013", but who
knows, maybe it was TOO liberal! I don't think so myself, though.]

We didn't have the type of parents that, say, El Paso County (the
Colorado one) does, who would object to the school basically almost
treating us as adults able to make reading decisions.

Though they might have been a bit less willing to let a teacher actively
determine that a particular book with blue language was a part of their
curriculum, with no alternatives.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
James Nicoll
2019-11-09 14:47:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
I'm indeed astonished that they would expose children in high school
to such a
Post by William Hyde
Post by Quadibloc
poem.
The OP implies that it is the book, not the poem that could be taught
in high school.
Post by William Hyde
but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near
given as an example of a transferred accent. Though it did send a
chill up my spine. I mean, I was already fourteen and what had I done?
Post by William Hyde
There is no chance whatsoever that we'd have been taught any poem with
the word "breast" in it nor would this even be in the library.
Post by William Hyde
The only books in the library with a remotely adult view of sex were
those written in French. I suspect the library censor's French was even
worse than mine (which was not good) so books got in which would never
have qualified if in English.
Post by William Hyde
William Hyde
Ahhh, the disadvantages of being in high school in either the 70s, a
conservative town, or both!
My HS library had Danielle Steel and Jackie Collins, and was purchasing
Stephen King's and Dean Koontz's works as they came out (actually, they
were purchasing the romances as they came out too. And I think they even
bought a copy of Mario Puzo's final work while I was there). But then,
my high school is in a socially-liberal upscale suburb in Colorado and I
was born while you were in high school or even after that. [Arapahoe
High School--yes, THAT one. I don't /think/ that has anything to do with
"why my high school wound up on the 'pray for x' list in 2013", but who
knows, maybe it was TOO liberal! I don't think so myself, though.]
Waterloo Oxford DSS is in a region known for its Mennonites, and
was not inclined to push the envelope if the religious sorts
would be offended (it had a class on world religions but nixed
inviting a Hindu to speak because that would have been too
controversial). It did, however, have a well thumbed copy of
Marian Engel's Governer General Award-winner THE BEAR, in
which a woman reassessing her life fucks a bear. And no.
that doesn't mean a burly man.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
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D B Davis
2019-11-10 14:42:11 UTC
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James Nicoll <***@panix.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by James Nicoll
Waterloo Oxford DSS is in a region known for its Mennonites, and
was not inclined to push the envelope if the religious sorts
would be offended (it had a class on world religions but nixed
inviting a Hindu to speak because that would have been too
controversial). It did, however, have a well thumbed copy of
Marian Engel's Governer General Award-winner THE BEAR, in
which a woman reassessing her life fucks a bear. And no.
that doesn't mean a burly man.
The animal abuse fantasies that Engel, her enablers, and her fans
indulge in are sick and may indicate psychopathy. Fortunately, bears are
able to maul any sick perverted trolls that try to rape them.



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
D B Davis
2019-11-10 14:41:44 UTC
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Post by p. pinto
- hi; yes, it's a phrase from the only andrew marvell poem
"to his coy mistress" (published posthumously in 1681)
"had we but world enough, and time,
this coyness, lady, were no crime
we would sit down and think which way
to walk and pass our long love's day
thou by the indian ganges' side
should'st rubies find: i, by the tide
of humber would complain; i would
love you ten years before the flood
and you should, if you please, refuse
until the conversion of the jews.
my vegetable love should grow
vaster than empires, and more slow;
an hundred years should go to praise
thine eyes and upon thy forehead gaze,
two hundred to adore each breast,
but thirty thousand to the rest;
and the last age should show thy heart
for lady, you deserve this state,
nor would i love at lower rate.
"but at my back i always hear
time's wingéd chariot hurrying near;
and yonder before us all lie
deserts of vast eternity.
thy beauty shall no more be found
nor in thy marble vault shall sound
my echoing song; then worms shall try
that long preserv'd virginity,
and your quaint honour turn to dust,
and into ashes all my lust.
the grave's a fine and private place,
but none, i think, do there embrace.
"now therefore, while the youthful hue
sits on thy skin like morning dew,
and while thy willing soul transpires
at ev'ry pore with instant fires,
now let us sport us while we may;
and now, like am'rous birds of prey,
rather at once our time devour,
than languish in his slow-chapt power.
let us roll all our strength and all
our sweetness up into one ball,
and tear our pleasures with rough strife
"thus, though we cannot make our sun
stand still, yet we will make him run."
- andrew marvell 1621-1678
- the poem's phraseology and imagery has been mined for
many sf and fantasy titles, themes, and more or less
literal interpretations and inspirations, over seven or
more decades: and some are classics, well worth reading
and re-reading, still.
- love, ppint.
You can count me as a reader who didn't know about this rich poem. OTOH,
everyone here knows Prince Hamlet's soliloquy, right? Authors also mine
it. My favorite "lifted" line is:

"'Twixt truth and madness lies but a sliver of a stream."
-Unknown



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Quadibloc
2019-11-10 15:08:16 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
OTOH,
everyone here knows Prince Hamlet's soliloquy, right?
To be or not to be? That is the question. Whether to suffer the slings and arrows
of outrageous fortune...

Yes, pretty much everyone knows _of_ that one.

John Savard
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