Discussion:
synchronize
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The Starmaker
2019-05-30 04:34:58 UTC
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If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...

is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-05-30 04:43:03 UTC
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Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
They will drift relative to each other.

Sylvia.
SolomonW
2019-05-30 14:08:33 UTC
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Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Even if two clocks were on top of the mountain they would drift based on
heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Hägar
2019-05-30 15:33:02 UTC
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"The Starmaker" wrote in message news:***@ix.netcom.com...

If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...

is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?



*** Here are some answers to your question:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081111132652AAzeKlP
Helmut Wabnig
2019-05-30 16:40:42 UTC
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On Wed, 29 May 2019 21:34:58 -0700, The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation

w.
The Starmaker
2019-05-30 23:59:36 UTC
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Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...

or hour glass.

I mean, those clocks don't run slow, do they?
Post by The Starmaker
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-05-31 03:11:53 UTC
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Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
Post by The Starmaker
or hour glass.
I mean, those clocks don't run slow, do they?
An hour glass depends on gravity to operate, so is subject to
differences in the gravitational field with altitude.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-05-31 16:58:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.

A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.

(in case of a cloudy day)
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-05-31 23:32:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.

But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-01 02:35:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-01 02:41:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.

But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.

So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.

The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 03:53:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-02 04:01:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?

Sylvia.
Sergeio
2019-06-02 04:44:36 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and
the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
how big is your sundial ?
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 05:56:30 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.

There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?

Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-02 07:51:28 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 09:13:37 UTC
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Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice

1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"

meas·ure

1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,




A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.



In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.


di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials

1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.



A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-02 09:31:22 UTC
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Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 19:40:44 UTC
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Post by Sylvia Else
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Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial, take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.

The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.



My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?



I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't 'noticeable' to you...until

"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"


Get off your high horse...
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 20:14:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial, take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.
The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.
My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't 'noticeable' to you...until
"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"
Get off your high horse...
Maybe I'm not making myself clear..let me clarify. Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?

My meaning is...when the shadow on the sundial goes from point A to point B, does the sundial that runs slower..

what is the shadow doing? Is it..slowing down, or stopping, or going backwards????


"It's... slowing down, Sir."
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
The Starmaker
2019-06-02 20:23:10 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial, take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.
The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.
My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't 'noticeable' to you...until
"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"
Get off your high horse...
Maybe I'm not making myself clear..let me clarify. Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
My meaning is...when the shadow on the sundial goes from point A to point B, does the sundial that runs slower..
what is the shadow doing? Is it..slowing down, or stopping, or going backwards????
"It's... slowing down, Sir."
I mean...even a dog can tell what time it is by looking at the shadow the fire hydrant makes...
he cannot observe time but he can observe the shadow.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-03 02:48:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial, take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.
The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.
My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't 'noticeable' to you...until
"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"
Get off your high horse...
Let's try a different approach.

Suppose you buy a tuning fork, that plays a standard A note - 440Hz.

You use your sun-dial at sea level, and confirm that it does indeed
oscillate exactly 440 times per second.

Now you climb a mountain. At the top, you play the tuning fork. It
sounds exactly the same.

But when you check it against the sun-dial there, you find that it
oscillates more than 440 times per second as indicated by the sun dial.

What to do?

You know that the frequency of the tuning fork is governed by the laws
of physics - there is an equation that takes into account the dimensions
of the tuning fork, and the properties of the metal from which it is
made. The equation predicts that the frequency of oscillation will be
440 times per second.

So you have a choice - you can take the period of a second as determined
by the sun-dial as always being correct, and modify the equations that
predict the period of oscillation so as to take account altitude, or you
can decide that it makes more sense for a second to be the time the
tuning fork takes to oscillate 440 times, and accept that sun-dials have
their limitations when it comes to their use in the equations that form
the laws of physics.

Since the laws of physics determine not just how mechanical objects
behave, but how fast chemical reactions occur, and consequently our own
perception of time, including how fast we age, it seems much more
sensible to define the second in a way that is consistent with our
experience, than in a way that makes all the laws of physics horribly
complicated, while only keeping owners of sun-dials happy.

Sylvia.
Cujo DeSockpuppet
2019-06-03 04:00:32 UTC
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Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
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Post by The Starmaker
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Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects
due to the Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial
will only match the reading of an accurate clock at sea
level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll
find that number of oscillations that occur within a second
of local solar time depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original
clocks with 24 hour dials, but the clock makers could not
have succeeded in making clocks that would stay synchronised
with a sun-dial at sea level, and then, if the clock was
taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a sun-dial
located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea
level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both
got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes
that occur in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies),
and those processes occur at rates that do not depend on the
relative positions of the Earth and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things
happen, we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except
at one specific altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes
special instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea
level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go
slower...if one is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the
position of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially
a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment. "a measuring
device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using
an instrument or device marked in standard units or by
comparing it with an object of known size. "the amount of
water collected is measured in pints" synonyms: take
the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count,
meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess,
appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is
sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show
units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used
as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic
effects have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature
to make it squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the
dictionary is not the best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial,
take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.
The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.
My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't
'noticeable' to you...until
"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"
Get off your high horse...
Let's try a different approach.
Suppose you buy a tuning fork, that plays a standard A note - 440Hz.
You use your sun-dial at sea level, and confirm that it does indeed
oscillate exactly 440 times per second.
Now you climb a mountain. At the top, you play the tuning fork. It
sounds exactly the same.
But when you check it against the sun-dial there, you find that it
oscillates more than 440 times per second as indicated by the sun dial.
What to do?
You know that the frequency of the tuning fork is governed by the laws
of physics - there is an equation that takes into account the
dimensions of the tuning fork, and the properties of the metal from
which it is made. The equation predicts that the frequency of
oscillation will be 440 times per second.
So you have a choice - you can take the period of a second as
determined by the sun-dial as always being correct, and modify the
equations that predict the period of oscillation so as to take account
altitude, or you can decide that it makes more sense for a second to
be the time the tuning fork takes to oscillate 440 times, and accept
that sun-dials have their limitations when it comes to their use in
the equations that form the laws of physics.
Since the laws of physics determine not just how mechanical objects
behave, but how fast chemical reactions occur, and consequently our
own perception of time, including how fast we age, it seems much more
sensible to define the second in a way that is consistent with our
experience, than in a way that makes all the laws of physics horribly
complicated, while only keeping owners of sun-dials happy.
Sylvia.
Perhaps you could ask him to test the sundial in the Marianas Trench
personally and get back to everyone. I eagerly await the results.

Failing that, I'm sure the Mole People at the center of the earth will
gladly assist as long as he meets them halfway there.
--
Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in dfw.*,
alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych. Supreme Holy
Overlord of alt.fucknozzles. Winner of the 8/2000, 2/2003 & 4/2007 HL&S
award. July 2005 Hammer of Thor. Winning Trainer - Barbara Woodhouse
Memorial Dog Whistle - 12/2005 & 4/2008. COOSN-266-06-01895.
"You will lose your ass when I sue you fraud. I have never plagiarized
anything." - Edmo, caught red-handed again, adds to the Lawsuit List.
The Starmaker
2019-06-03 06:27:37 UTC
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Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
Maybe those sundial clocks would be more accurate...
Sundials show local solar time. Even if we ignore effects due to the
Earth's motion around its orbit, the sundial will only match the reading
of an accurate clock at sea level.
If I put a sundial on top of a mountain,
and another sundial on the ground..
they will both measure the correct time
without one going faster and the other going slow.
They show the correct local solar time, by definition.
But if you take a spring, and count its oscillations, you'll find that
number of oscillations that occur within a second of local solar time
depends on where you are.
Post by The Starmaker
A mechanical clock is just a modern sundial using
the little hand pointing where the sun's shadow would be.
That may well have been the thinking behind the original clocks with 24
hour dials, but the clock makers could not have succeeded in making
clocks that would stay synchronised with a sun-dial at sea level, and
then, if the clock was taken up a mountain, stay synchronised with a
sun-dial located there.
Sylvia.
i don't understand the diference between a sundial at sea level and the other sundial at mountain level, they both both got the same time.
Yes, they do.
But our experience of time is governed by physical processes that occur
in our immediate vicinity (and within our bodies), and those processes
occur at rates that do not depend on the relative positions of the Earth
and Sun.
So if we define time as reflecting the rate at which things happen,
we'll find that sun dials don't keep exact time except at one specific
altitude.
The differences are, of course, very small, and it takes special
instruments to detect them.
Sylvia.
Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
Slower than what?
Sylvia.
Slower than the other sundial.
There is one on the mountain, and one at sea level...diduforgetalready?
Time dialation sez a devise for measuring time will go slower...if one
is up there and
the other devise is down there.
Yes, it does, but sundials don't measure time, they measure the position
of the sun.
Sylvia.
de·vice
1.
a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
"a measuring device"
meas·ure
1.
ascertain the size, amount, or degree of (something) by using an instrument or device marked in standard units or by comparing it with an object of known size.
"the amount of water collected is measured in pints"
synonyms: take the measurements of, calculate, compute, estimate, count, meter, quantify, weigh, size, evaluate, rate, assess, appraise, gauge, plumb, measure out, determine,
A sundial is a device that tells the time of day when there is sunlight by the apparent position of the Sun in the sky.
In other words...when you use a sundial , you interested
in the time of day...not what position the sun is.
di·al
/'di(?)l/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: dial; plural noun: dials
1.
a face of a clock, watch, or sundial that is marked to show units of time.
A unit of time or midst unit is any particular time interval, used as a standard way of measuring or expressing duration.
Yes, this is all very well for everyday use, where relativistic effects
have no noticeable impact, but once you start poking nature to make it
squirm, you near more precise definitions, and the dictionary is not the
best place to find them.
Sylvia.
"have no noticeable impact,"???? You take a picture of one sundial, take a picture of the other sundial...and measure the shadow.
The Suns is the device that moves the hands on the clock called...a sundial.
My question was: Does the shadow on the sundial....run slower?
I'm sure if you're wearing a watch and it it runs slow...it wasn't 'noticeable' to you...until
"Oh, my watch is slow, I didn't notice that, what time do you have?"
Get off your high horse...
Let's try a different approach.
Suppose you buy a tuning fork, that plays a standard A note - 440Hz.
You use your sun-dial at sea level, and confirm that it does indeed
oscillate exactly 440 times per second.
Now you climb a mountain. At the top, you play the tuning fork. It
sounds exactly the same.
But when you check it against the sun-dial there, you find that it
oscillates more than 440 times per second as indicated by the sun dial.
What to do?
You know that the frequency of the tuning fork is governed by the laws
of physics - there is an equation that takes into account the dimensions
of the tuning fork, and the properties of the metal from which it is
made. The equation predicts that the frequency of oscillation will be
440 times per second.
So you have a choice - you can take the period of a second as determined
by the sun-dial as always being correct, and modify the equations that
predict the period of oscillation so as to take account altitude, or you
can decide that it makes more sense for a second to be the time the
tuning fork takes to oscillate 440 times, and accept that sun-dials have
their limitations when it comes to their use in the equations that form
the laws of physics.
Since the laws of physics determine not just how mechanical objects
behave, but how fast chemical reactions occur, and consequently our own
perception of time, including how fast we age, it seems much more
sensible to define the second in a way that is consistent with our
experience, than in a way that makes all the laws of physics horribly
complicated, while only keeping owners of sun-dials happy.
Sylvia.
It's truly, truly *more* 'complicated' using a tuning fork vibrations to measure time than it is using a ...shadow.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-03 07:00:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
It's truly, truly *more* 'complicated' using a tuning fork vibrations to measure time than it is using a ...shadow.
You'd prefer a definition of the second that's next to useless, only
because it's what the sundial shows?

I remain unclear as to the point of this thread.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-03 07:24:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
It's truly, truly *more* 'complicated' using a tuning fork vibrations to measure time than it is using a ...shadow.
You'd prefer a definition of the second that's next to useless, only
because it's what the sundial shows?
I remain unclear as to the point of this thread.
Are you clear about the point of the universe?
Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.
I'm not looking for the definition of a second..
I'm looking for the behavior of the shadow.

I asked about the measurement of the shadow,

not the dial itself. It's not that complicated.

I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.

It's just a shadow.


I mean, I understand that a sundial is

somewhat an old device...but

I'm focused on the 'shadow', not the sundial.

The shadow is still very much used today.
The sun cast a shadow on the earth.

New planets are discovered all the time by
simply observing it's shadow past the sun.

And besides, what good is a tuning fork to
measure time with when time is unobservable...

and yous are not even sure if time exist at all, or just an illusion.

What are you measuring with these...Good Vibrations then?


I don't know how you use a tuning fork on a ...shadow....between light and shadow.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-03 12:25:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-03 17:27:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?

There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.

Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.

Is one ...slowing down?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-03 22:54:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-04 08:12:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".


I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.

So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?


A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-04 08:26:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.

You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong, but you're using words that do not have precise meanings. It's
not going to work.

Sylvia.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think Starmaker's trying to tell us that
he doesn't like "evil" General Relativity.

Science and Technology are relatively new to humanity;
many see it as an encroachment on simple, "absolute" truths.
The Ten Commandments didn't have fine print.
mimus99
2019-06-21 18:00:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
I think Starmaker's trying to tell us that
he doesn't like "evil" General Relativity.
Science and Technology are relatively new to humanity;
many see it as an encroachment on simple, "absolute" truths.
The Ten Commandments didn't have fine print.
The Vedas, Torah, Gospels and Koran are not science-textbooks, and anybody
who claims they are (or is disappointed they're not) doesn't understand the
Vedas, Torah, Gospels or Koran, or science-textbooks.
--
In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.

< The cosmologist Pratchett
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
2019-06-21 18:05:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
mimus99 amok-crossposted to 5(!) newsgroups:
^^^^^^^
Your real name belongs there.
Post by mimus99
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
I think Starmaker's trying to tell us that
he doesn't like "evil" General Relativity.
Science and Technology are relatively new to humanity;
many see it as an encroachment on simple, "absolute" truths.
The Ten Commandments didn't have fine print.
The Vedas, Torah, Gospels and Koran are not science-textbooks, and anybody
who claims they are (or is disappointed they're not) doesn't understand
the Vedas, Torah, Gospels or Koran, or science-textbooks.
True. And anyone who posts

| Newsgroups:
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.arts.sf.written

*without* Followup-To does not understand Usenet.


F’up2 poster

PointedEars
--
Heisenberg is out for a drive when he's stopped by a traffic cop.
The officer asks him "Do you know how fast you were going?"
Heisenberg replies "No, but I know where I am."
(from: WolframAlpha)
mimus99
2019-06-21 19:00:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 20:05:55 +0200, in
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.arts.sf.written
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
^^^^^^^
Your real name belongs there.
That _is_ my real name. Ask anybody.
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Post by mimus99
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
I think Starmaker's trying to tell us that
he doesn't like "evil" General Relativity.
Science and Technology are relatively new to humanity;
many see it as an encroachment on simple, "absolute" truths.
The Ten Commandments didn't have fine print.
The Vedas, Torah, Gospels and Koran are not science-textbooks, and anybody
who claims they are (or is disappointed they're not) doesn't understand
the Vedas, Torah, Gospels or Koran, or science-textbooks.
True. And anyone who posts
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.arts.sf.written
<mildly:>

Crossposting is a great way to meet new people.

But I'll bite: Which group was the original discussion off-topic to?
--
This is part of the eternal wonder of the universe
as man forages out to discover in the womb of time
the nascence of his individuality in the motherhood of possibility.

< Malzberg
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Thomas "clueless" Lahn is beyond autistic; he's a poorly-programmed robot,
created by some random, half-blind freshman/lady, high on ecstasy.
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
2019-06-21 20:06:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mimus99
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 20:05:55 +0200, in
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.arts.sf.written
Post by mimus99
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
^^^^^^^
Your real name belongs there.
That _is_ my real name. Ask anybody.
Nonsense. Are you trolling?
Post by mimus99
Crossposting is a great way to meet new people
It is also a great way to end in those people’s killfiles shortly after or
even before meeting them :->
Post by mimus99
But I'll bite: Which group was the original discussion off-topic to?
You can’t be serious. Unless you count those religious works as
“science-fiction”, it is off-topic in *all* of them!


F’up2 poster again; I will killfile you if you ignore it again.

You have been warned.


PointedEars
--
Q: What did the female magnet say to the male magnet?
A: From the back, I found you repulsive, but from the front
I find myself very attracted to you.
(from: WolframAlpha)
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
F’up2 poster again; I will killfile you if you ignore it again.
You have been warned.
There's a Grand Canyon separating reality and Tom's imagination.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
F’up2 poster again; I will killfile you if you ignore it again.
You have been warned.
There's a Grand Canyon separating reality from Tom's imagination.
Siri Cruise
2019-06-21 19:16:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
True. And anyone who posts
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.ar
ts.sf.written
*without* Followup-To does not understand Usenet.
Are you saying the union of conflicting forms cannot produce beauty?
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The first law of discordiamism: The more energy This post / \
to make order is nore energy made into entropy. insults Islam. Mohammed
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
2019-06-21 20:09:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
True. And anyone who posts
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.ar
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
ts.sf.written
*without* Followup-To does not understand Usenet.
Are you saying the union of conflicting forms cannot produce beauty?
I am saying that if you continue to spam Usenet, in particular
sci.physics.ALL you should FOAD.

Clear enough for you now?


F’up2 poster; if you ignore it again, I will killfile you. Also, a formal
complaint to your service provider, eternal-september.org, is being
considered, which may cost you your account. You have been warned.

PointedEars
--
Q: What did the nuclear physicist order for lunch?
A: Fission chips.

(from: WolframAlpha)
Siri Cruise
2019-06-21 21:32:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
True. And anyone who posts
sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy,rec.ar
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
ts.sf.written
*without* Followup-To does not understand Usenet.
Are you saying the union of conflicting forms cannot produce beauty?
I am saying that if you continue to spam Usenet, in particular
sci.physics.ALL you should FOAD.
Clear enough for you now?
Look at your X-Face. Discover its origin and meaning. Hint: it's from Star Trek.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The first law of discordiamism: The more energy This post / \
to make order is nore energy made into entropy. insults Islam. Mohammed
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
2019-06-21 21:39:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Siri Cruise amok-crossposted to sci.physics, comp.os.linux.advocacy,
[…]
*PLONK*


F’up2 poster

PointedEars
--
Q: What happens when electrons lose their energy?
A: They get Bohr'ed.

(from: WolframAlpha)
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mimus99
In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.
In physics, entropy is how evenly heat/matter are distributed.
Our hot/dense sun evaporates into the cold/sparse vacuum,
losing 4.3 million tons each second.

Our Universe is going from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse.
"God" (nature) programmed us to ride this wave
( i.e. to sustainablely consume residual exergy ), same as the sun.
The Starmaker
2019-06-04 18:32:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong, but you're using words that do not have precise meanings. It's
not going to work.
Sylvia.
A clock, whether it has hands or not, atomic or not...does not measure Time.


If you ask Slyvia "What time is it?" he sez..."I gotta check my tuning fork and count the beats..." Bing, bing., bing.


A 'clock', (your clock) does - not - measure...Time. You have been misinformed.


I'm trying to help you here..


Tells us, how does a clock measure time? Inquiring minds want to know...
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
The Starmaker
2019-06-04 18:42:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????



I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!

I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
The Starmaker
2019-06-04 18:48:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
I mean, I know what Relativity is, Einstein already explained it...all you need is a hot stove and a hot girl on your lap, not a clock.
Post by The Starmaker
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-05 03:11:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
More like a concern troll.

It's easy enough. Define the second in terms of the rate that physical
processes occur. Done. Construct a clock that measures seconds so
defined. Done.

Use the clock to measure the rate that a sundial shadow moves at sea level.

Take the clock up a mountain, and use it to measure the rate that the
sundial shadow moves there. Note that that rate is lower.

Task complete.

Sylvia.
The Starmaker
2019-06-05 03:51:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
More like a concern troll.
It's easy enough. Define the second in terms of the rate that physical
processes occur.
Is a shadow a ...physical process?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-05 04:22:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
More like a concern troll.
It's easy enough. Define the second in terms of the rate that physical
processes occur.
Is a shadow a ...physical process?
No.
The Starmaker
2019-06-05 04:25:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
More like a concern troll.
It's easy enough. Define the second in terms of the rate that physical
processes occur.
Is a shadow a ...physical process?
I mean, a shadow doesn't turn into ice..


a sundial is no different than a watch or a clock, they all have marks
on them so you can tell what time it is.


But a sundial doesn't tic or tock. There are no moving parts...

Night time means where you live it's all...shadow. Half of the earth
becomes a giant shadow. It means...it's Night Time.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Sylvia Else
2019-06-05 04:43:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
You're trying to construct some argument that says that relativity is
wrong,
Has anybody here *ever* seen me say, or to the effect that "relativity is wrong"????
I'm here trying to prove it...RIGHT!
I'm simply making observations and trying to figure out how to measure a shadow slowing down...
More like a concern troll.
It's easy enough. Define the second in terms of the rate that physical
processes occur.
Is a shadow a ...physical process?
I mean, a shadow doesn't turn into ice..
a sundial is no different than a watch or a clock, they all have marks
on them so you can tell what time it is.
But a sundial doesn't tic or tock. There are no moving parts...
Night time means where you live it's all...shadow. Half of the earth
becomes a giant shadow. It means...it's Night Time.
If you think about what governs the position of the shadow on a sundial,
once the sundial has been fixed in place - it's mainly the rotation of
the Earth, and the rate of rotation is essentially constant, at least in
the short term, in the frame of the entire Earth.

A clock on the other hand, is measuring the rate of a physical process
in the frame of the clock.

The various hands, marks, and other paraphernalia are unimportant. What
matters is the underlying process being measured.

The sundial and the clock are measuring processes that are constant in
different frames. Moving up a mountain doesn't change the frame of the
process that the sundial is measuring. It does change the frame of the
process that the clock is measuring.

Sylvia.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A twin who spent 79 years living a foot higher
then his brother, would be 90 nanoseconds older.

90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.

Sundials aren't that accurate.
The Starmaker
2019-06-05 17:26:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
A twin who spent 79 years living a foot higher
then his brother, would be 90 nanoseconds older.
90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.
Sundials aren't that accurate.
A sundial is certaintly more accurate than an atomic clock, since the sundial's shadow comes from the Sun's nucleau atomic energy...


The sundial is an atomic clock.


It's called a....SUNdial.

A sun clock.



What time does your shadow say?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.
Sundials aren't that accurate.
A sundial is certaintly more accurate than an atomic clock,
While that may be true in your world, given enough LSD,
it's not true for the rest of humanity.
Peter Trei
2019-06-05 18:13:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.
Sundials aren't that accurate.
A sundial is certaintly more accurate than an atomic clock,
While that may be true in your world, given enough LSD,
it's not true for the rest of humanity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second

pt
The Starmaker
2019-06-05 19:12:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.
Sundials aren't that accurate.
A sundial is certaintly more accurate than an atomic clock,
While that may be true in your world, given enough LSD,
it's not true for the rest of humanity.
If you fly from El Lay to New York...you don't need to set your sundial to New York time. It's accurate.


wats LDS?
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
If you fly from El Lay to New York...you don't
need to set your sundial to New York time. It's accurate.
What's LDS ?
In America, Latter Day Saints are Mormons,
the only ones gullible enough to breed anymore;
in poorer parts, Muslims do the breeding.

Either one, LDS or LSD, are appropriate for you,
so you can avoid science and technology.
benj
2019-06-05 19:16:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
90 billionths of a second, after 79 years.
Sundials aren't that accurate.
A sundial is certaintly more accurate than an atomic clock,
While that may be true in your world, given enough LSD,
it's not true for the rest of humanity.
Rolf, you ignorant moron! (not a slut except with your plastic vagina)

A Sundial is THE most accurate clock on the planet. ANY physicist will
tell you that a sundial is far more accurate than an atomic clock.

You can ask "professor" Wormley to explain to you why that is.

Hint for dumbass Rolf: go look up the difference between accuracy and
precision!

(Lurkers please note that this does NOT change the fact that Starfaker
is STILL an idiot)
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sundials are off by far more than 90 nano-seconds every 79 years.
Earth's rotation is slowing down, it wobbles, and its orbit changes.
You (Ben) think otherwise because you're too busy hallucinating.
The Starmaker
2019-06-05 22:22:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Sundials are off by far more than 90 nano-seconds every 79 years.
Earth's rotation is slowing down, it wobbles, and its orbit changes.
You (Ben) think otherwise because you're too busy hallucinating.
he's on orange sunshine...24/7
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
benj
2019-06-06 04:08:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Sundials are off by far more than 90 nano-seconds every 79 years.
Earth's rotation is slowing down, it wobbles, and its orbit changes.
You (Ben) think otherwise because you're too busy hallucinating.
he's on orange sunshine...24/7
Are you referring to me or Rolf, faker?

You are still a moron.
benj
2019-06-06 04:07:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Sundials are off by far more than 90 nano-seconds every 79 years.
Earth's rotation is slowing down, it wobbles, and its orbit changes.
You (Ben) think otherwise because you're too busy hallucinating.
Rolf you ignorant kook, you don't hallucinate. You live in a stupid
bubble. I give you truth and even the source of verification (Wormley)
and like any stupid liberal left coaster, the best "science" you can
offer is some offensive personal insult! You see, Rolf, I do not use
drugs (like you left coasters do) whereas when I say you are incredibly
ignorant, that is simply scientific demonstrable truth.

You aren't really going to make me explain this science to you, are you?
The Starmaker
2019-06-06 05:21:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by benj
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Sundials are off by far more than 90 nano-seconds every 79 years.
Earth's rotation is slowing down, it wobbles, and its orbit changes.
You (Ben) think otherwise because you're too busy hallucinating.
Rolf you ignorant kook, you don't hallucinate. You live in a stupid
bubble. I give you truth and even the source of verification (Wormley)
and like any stupid liberal left coaster, the best "science" you can
offer is some offensive personal insult! You see, Rolf, I do not use
drugs (like you left coasters do) whereas when I say you are incredibly
ignorant, that is simply scientific demonstrable truth.
You aren't really going to make me explain this science to you, are you?
Ever see a dog on acid? That's how Benji looks 'explaining science'...
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
The Starmaker
2019-06-04 20:02:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
Post by Sylvia Else
Post by The Starmaker
I just wanted to know if the shadow...slows down.
You appear to think this question has a meaning without comparing the
rate of shadow with anything else. That only works if there is such a
thing as absolute time. There is not.
Sylvia.
I'm comparing it with the 'other' sundial. Did you forget again?
There is one
on the mountain, and
the other
at sea level.
Compare one shadow
with the other shadow.
Is one ...slowing down?
I thought we'd already settled that. There's no difference between them.
Sylvia.
Okay, maybe you don't understand..."time-dilation".
I read somewhere they placed one clock at a higher elevation than the other clock, and found, just as Einstein predicted, that the higher clock ran slightly faster than the lower clock.
So, How could as you say..."There's no difference between them."?
A sundial shows you what the time of day is, just as any of yours today clocks does.
As I said already. A sundial does not measure time, it measure the
position of the sun. There is a correlation between the position of the
sun and the local time which is accurate enough for many everyday
purposes, but a correlation is all that it is.
No, you got it backwards..you're looking at it from the earth's point of view...

The sun, positions the shadow on the sundial to make it possible to tell what time it is. The sun is the machinery behind the shadow
that postions the shadow on the sundial, just as the hands of a clock contains machinery that positions the hands on the clock.

I just want to see how the shadow on the sundial...slows down, that's all.

It's about ..."time-dilation".

Shaaaaaadoooooow.
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
the unchallengeable.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Else
It's *more* 'complicated' using tuning fork vibrations
to measure time than a shadow.
You'd prefer a definition of the second that's next to useless,
only because it's what the sundial shows ?
I remain unclear as to the point of this thread.
For most people, it's more useful, and obviously easier,
to measure time in terms of how many emperors have passed away.

If you're a super-high-tech Einstein, you might need to know
how orbiting clocks synchronize with surface clocks;
but such people are very few and far between.

Many people insist that the earth is flat; to them, I say:
Have at it, you don't need to "know" any more than that.
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
sundials don't measure time, they measure the position of the sun.
Correct, only lasers measure time ( and distance ).

Today, even the kilogram is measured in terms of lasers,
Planck's constant ( h, e = h*frequency ), and "e/c^2 = m".
Tom Roberts
2019-06-02 16:34:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
only lasers measure time ( and distance ).
Nope. Indeed I know of no clock that is based upon a laser (except in
gedankens). Nor do I know how to "measure time" using a laser. The
traditional Cs atomic time standard is nothing like a laser. More modern
optical clocks often use lasers, but their timekeeping is most
definitely not based on any laser.
Post by Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
Today, even the kilogram is measured in terms of lasers,
Planck's constant ( h, e = h*frequency ), and "e/c^2 = m".
Not really. The kilogram was recently redefined in terms of various
constants of nature (including c and Planck's). But lasers are neither
part of the definition nor essential.

Tom Roberts
Jeff-Relf.Me @.@
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
only lasers measure time ( and distance ) accurately.
Nope. Indeed I know of no clock that is based upon a laser
Don't be so pedantic, I meant: Bose-Einstein Condensates,
including "atom lasers" ( coherent atoms ), lasers, and masers.

Quoting Wikipedia:

Early atomic clocks were based on masers at room temperature.

Since 2004, more accurate atomic clocks
first cool the atoms to near absolute zero
temperature by slowing them with lasers and probing
them in atomic fountains in a microwave-filled cavity.
Today, even the kilogram is measured in terms of lasers,
Planck's constant ( h, e = h*frequency ), and "e/c^2 = m".
Not really. The kilogram was recently redefined in terms of various
constants of nature (including c and Planck's).
But lasers are neither part of the definition nor essential.
Japan Times, May 25, 2019:

NEW YORK - Last week the kilogram got a new
definition — one that rests on a quantity of light.

All electrons, protons, neutrons and photons have
perfectly uniform masses and other properties.
They don’t age or get dented or scratched.

And yes, particles of light — photons —
can have a mass under certain circumstances.

Light is massless when it travels the speed of light,
but you can confine photons in a sort of mirrored box,
so that they bounce back and forth but
have an average speed of zero relative to the box.

In that case, the photons indeed have predictable mass.
The box with the photons will have more mass than the box alone.

The energy of a photon is equal to
its frequency times the Planck constant.

Just as scientists had to set the speed of light at a
fixed number in order to define the meter without the
platinum bar, so on Monday they set Planck’s constant
at a fixed value to get rid of the mutable kilogram.

There were two different kinds of devices that had
been used to precisely measure Planck’s constant,
and both can be used to measure the kilogram,
now that Planck’s constant is fixed.

One device, called the Kibble balance, can measure
either the kilogram or Planck’s constant by balancing
weight against electromagnetic forces.

The other apparatus uses a sphere of precisely measured size
— so precise that scientists can approximate the number
of atoms it contains.
tom
2019-06-09 20:28:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 29 May 2019 21:34:58 -0700
Post by The Starmaker
If you got one clock
ontop of the mountain, and
one clock on the ground...
is it possible to synchronize
both clocks, or is always
going to be off a little?
assuming accurate timekeeping technology is used, the one on top of the
mountain will be slightly faster, due to it moving faster through
space. The farther from the center of the earth you are the faster
you'll be rotating. The faster you move through space the slower times
runs for you.

However you'll need an atomic clock to notice this difference.

Other factors to keep in mind is the effects temperature, pressure,
radiation, etc have on various oscillators.
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