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Discussion:
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-26 18:18:44 UTC
Permalink
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
https://www.xkcd.com/2285/

Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.

Explained at:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2285:_Recurring_Nightmare

Lynn
Mark Jackson
2020-03-26 18:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
https://www.gocomics.com/candorville/2020/03/26
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Nonrational logic will not go away. - David Byrne
David Johnston
2020-03-26 22:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
   https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-29 06:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2020-03-29 08:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.
COVID-19
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
J. Clarke
2020-03-29 12:48:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 01:19:51 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.
COVID-19
If you want to be pedantic, the virus is SARS-CoV-2 and the disease it
causes is COVID-19.
<https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it>

If you don't like either of those, take it up with the WHO.

And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
Carl Fink
2020-03-29 12:55:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
--
Carl Fink ***@finknetwork.com
https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it.
-Kenne Estes
Magewolf
2020-03-29 17:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
Were books invented in China in the last 6 months?
Carl Fink
2020-03-29 19:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
Were books invented in China in the last 6 months?
Sorry, I thought that everyone knew that the Chinese invented printing.
--
Carl Fink ***@finknetwork.com
https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it.
-Kenne Estes
Paul S Person
2020-03-30 17:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
Were books invented in China in the last 6 months?
Sorry, I thought that everyone knew that the Chinese invented printing.
Printing, yes.

Codices, no.

The introduction to /The Nag Hammadi Library in English/ makes this
quite clear:

Jews preferred scrolls, as found at Qumran
Christians preferred codices, as found at Nag Hammadi

but neither were printed. To invent printing is not to invent the
codex.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2020-03-29 17:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.

So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.

The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.

But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.

OTOH, the 1918/19 flu was called "Spanish flu" although it did not
originate in Spain -- it was just that Spain, unlike the USA, Britain,
and France, did not try to hide the problem in 1918 and so the
association was formed. But then, Spain, at least by that point,
didn't consider itself the ruler of the world.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2020-03-29 17:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"the first successful time machine will be used to retrieve lost
Doctor Who episode footage." - KKC, ugvm
J. Clarke
2020-03-29 18:26:56 UTC
Permalink
On 29 Mar 2020 17:22:00 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
You need to get something done about that knee.
John W Kennedy
2020-03-29 18:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Kevrob
2020-03-29 18:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
Combine ignorance with the "people are idiots" factor, and this
nonsense crops up. After 9/11 there were cases of people wearing
Sikh dress being harassed as Muslims - and even murdered!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/the-trouble-with-wearing-turbans-in-america/384832/

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Robert Carnegie
2020-03-29 23:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by John W Kennedy
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
Combine ignorance with the "people are idiots" factor, and this
nonsense crops up.
Assaulting a "Chinese" person is strange behaviour
if you want to not catch "Chinese flu" from them.
I wonder if that needs to be broadcast for the sake
of idiots. I mean, it's not even stupid.

Concerning the "Great Fire of London" of 1666,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hubert>
is the story of a scapegoat, and also mentions
"the murder of a Frenchman whose tennis balls
were mistaken for 'balls of fire'".
J. Clarke
2020-03-29 19:13:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
Alan Baker
2020-03-29 19:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?

The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a "chinese"
virus.

It's deflection.

It incites bigotry.

It's wrong.
Magewolf
2020-03-29 22:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a "chinese"
virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.

The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.

So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.

Now is that any reason to attack Asian people? No, it is not. Is it a
reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to keep
this from happening again? Yes it is.
Alan Baker
2020-03-29 22:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
That doesn't make it morally right.
Post by Magewolf
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
Nope. That is complete and utter bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
More bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it a
reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to keep
this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How do you imagine you can change the fact that the most populous
country on earth is therefore the most likely place for a new pathogen
to emerge?

And it is stupid statements like the ones you have just made that will
lead admittedly stupid, bigoted people to attack Asian people. It has
already happened, and it will happen again...

...and you really will bear at least a scintilla of the blame for that.
Magewolf
2020-03-29 23:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:55:11 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not
"Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
That doesn't make it morally right.
Post by Magewolf
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
Nope. That is complete and utter bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
More bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it
a reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to
keep this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How do you imagine you can change the fact that the most populous
country on earth is therefore the most likely place for a new pathogen
to emerge?
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one) and teaching and enforcing a
bare minimum of personal hygiene would help. Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.

Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease while threatening doctors to keep them
quiet.


So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it. So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Alan Baker
2020-03-30 00:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:55:11 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is
true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
That doesn't make it morally right.
Post by Magewolf
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
Nope. That is complete and utter bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
More bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it
a reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to
keep this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How do you imagine you can change the fact that the most populous
country on earth is therefore the most likely place for a new pathogen
to emerge?
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one) and teaching and enforcing a
bare minimum of personal hygiene would help. Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is.  That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
You don't actually know where this virus came from... ...because no one
does.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease while threatening doctors to keep them
quiet.
And you think.. ...what... ...that would magically have prevented this
from spreading to other parts of the world?
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.  So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
And every time it is in the news that another person was attacked
because of people like you, I'll make sure to point out your complicity.

<https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/east-asian-student-assaulted-in-racist-coronavirus-attack-in-london-1.4838325>

<https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/3/25/21190655/trump-coronavirus-racist-asian-americans>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#United_States>
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2020-03-30 01:09:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
It won't - it'll get snorted at with contempt by the Chinese leaders, if it's
noticed at all.

What will happen if the name catches on is a massive uptick in racism against
anyone looking vaguely Chinese. Is that really the result you want? Because
that's what happens every time this is done. It's always the folks who are
least responsible who get threatened by meatheaded morons who believe that the
local Chinese restaurant is importing the virus.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Sent from my Sinclair ZX-81
Magewolf
2020-03-30 01:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
It won't - it'll get snorted at with contempt by the Chinese leaders, if it's
noticed at all.
What will happen if the name catches on is a massive uptick in racism against
anyone looking vaguely Chinese. Is that really the result you want? Because
that's what happens every time this is done. It's always the folks who are
least responsible who get threatened by meatheaded morons who believe that the
local Chinese restaurant is importing the virus.
Cheers - Jaimie
It will not be snorted at, it will drive them crazy. They hate losing
face. Why else would you ban Winnie the Pooh.

They are already going with the story that Chinese Flu was planted in
China by the USA to make them look bad.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2020-03-30 13:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
It won't - it'll get snorted at with contempt by the Chinese leaders, if it's
noticed at all.
What will happen if the name catches on is a massive uptick in racism against
anyone looking vaguely Chinese. Is that really the result you want? Because
that's what happens every time this is done. It's always the folks who are
least responsible who get threatened by meatheaded morons who believe that the
local Chinese restaurant is importing the virus.
Cheers - Jaimie
It will not be snorted at, it will drive them crazy. They hate losing
face. Why else would you ban Winnie the Pooh.
They are already going with the story that Chinese Flu was planted in
China by the USA to make them look bad.
Honestly, that was not the part of my post I considered important.

But you go ahead encouraging racism, you do you.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"You could say that Apple charges for incremental upgrades while
Microsoft charges for excremental ones" -- Daniel James, uk.c.h
Magewolf
2020-03-30 19:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Magewolf
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
It won't - it'll get snorted at with contempt by the Chinese leaders, if it's
noticed at all.
What will happen if the name catches on is a massive uptick in racism against
anyone looking vaguely Chinese. Is that really the result you want? Because
that's what happens every time this is done. It's always the folks who are
least responsible who get threatened by meatheaded morons who believe that the
local Chinese restaurant is importing the virus.
Cheers - Jaimie
It will not be snorted at, it will drive them crazy. They hate losing
face. Why else would you ban Winnie the Pooh.
They are already going with the story that Chinese Flu was planted in
China by the USA to make them look bad.
Honestly, that was not the part of my post I considered important.
But you go ahead encouraging racism, you do you.
Cheers - Jaimie
If stating the truth will encourage "racism" what do you suggest? Lying?
David Johnston
2020-03-30 20:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
It won't - it'll get snorted at with contempt by the Chinese leaders, if it's
noticed at all.
What will happen if the name catches on is a massive uptick in racism against
anyone looking vaguely Chinese. Is that really the result you want? Because
that's what happens every time this is done. It's always the folks who are
least responsible who get threatened by meatheaded morons who believe that the
local Chinese restaurant is importing the virus.
    Cheers - Jaimie
It will not be snorted at, it will drive them crazy.  They hate losing
face.  Why else would you ban Winnie the Pooh.
They are already going with the story that Chinese Flu was planted in
China by the USA to make them look bad.
Honestly, that was not the part of my post I considered important.
But you go ahead encouraging racism, you do you.
    Cheers - Jaimie
If stating the truth will encourage "racism" what do you suggest? Lying?
The truth is, it isn't a Chinese virus. It's global.
h***@gmail.com
2020-03-30 02:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Paul S Person
2020-03-30 17:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."

Guess what /that/ is about?

I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.

As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.

This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dimensional Traveler
2020-03-30 20:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-30 20:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links
to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they
caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is.  That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
  So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question.  If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China?  (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19.  Bit more
specific.)
One flu at a time please.

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2020-03-31 01:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links
to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they
caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal
hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is.  That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
  So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question.  If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out
of China?  (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19.  Bit more
specific.)
One flu at a time please.
Tell that to the viruses.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-31 18:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any
links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they
caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal
hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is.  That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
  So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question.  If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out
of China?  (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19.  Bit more
specific.)
One flu at a time please.
Tell that to the viruses.
Yup, that is the nature of the beast.

Lynn
James Nicoll
2020-03-30 20:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
My understanding is the flyer sent out by Trump's people last week call it
President Trump's Coronavirus. Seems pretty specific _and_ the name will
keep his name well known, which should please him.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dimensional Traveler
2020-03-31 01:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
My understanding is the flyer sent out by Trump's people last week call it
President Trump's Coronavirus. Seems pretty specific _and_ the name will
keep his name well known, which should please him.
*snicker* Ya, there's a reason most Presidents would have titled that
postcard "Federal Guidelines for Social Distancing" or some such WITHOUT
using the President's name.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Chris Buckley
2020-03-30 21:08:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.

Note that to be pedantic, the virus is not called COVID-19; the disease
the virus causes is called COVID-19. The virus is called SARS-CoV-2.
Good explanation at
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

Chris
David Johnston
2020-03-30 21:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
Post by Dimensional Traveler
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
Note that to be pedantic, the virus is not called COVID-19; the disease
the virus causes is called COVID-19. The virus is called SARS-CoV-2.
Since that is unpronounceable nobody is going to use it.
Carl Fink
2020-03-31 13:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
--
Carl Fink ***@finknetwork.com
https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it.
-Kenne Estes
danny burstein
2020-03-31 15:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
Coxsackie Fever, West Nile Virus, Lyme Disease,
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Legionnaire's Disease..

(One of these things is not like the others).
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Kevrob
2020-03-31 16:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
Coxsackie Fever, West Nile Virus, Lyme Disease,
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Legionnaire's Disease..
(One of these things is not like the others).
The last surfaced at an American Legion convention.
It's just good luck that Philcons aren't in the summer!

Kevin R
David Johnston
2020-03-31 17:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Chrysi Cat
2020-03-31 18:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Alan Baker
2020-03-31 18:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have
real problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
Due to a level of ignorance about whether the "Lyme" in "Lyme disease"
represents a person, a place, a river, etc...

...but it comes across as just a name of no import because it is paired
with "disease"

All people know about "Ebola" is that it was the name of a terrifying
disease, precisely because it was always referred to as just "Ebola".
People didn't say "Ebola disease" much, and they didn't say "Ebola
virus" much even. There certainly were times when it was referred to as
"THE Ebola virus" but even including "THE" adds a subtlety to it.

More the most part, it was simply "Ebola" and hence "Ebola" is a very
scary word to most people.
Kevrob
2020-03-31 19:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
The tick-borne illness was first discovered at Lyme and Old Lyme,
but Lyme got stuck with the name. There's an East Lyme, also.
People misspell it as "Lime Disease" often enough that the towns
don't suffer from it.

Kevin R
Alan Baker
2020-03-31 19:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
The tick-borne illness was first discovered at Lyme and Old Lyme,
but Lyme got stuck with the name. There's an East Lyme, also.
People misspell it as "Lime Disease" often enough that the towns
don't suffer from it.
I'm pretty sure that from a cognitive perspective, to have the condition
referred to as "Lyme DISEASE" basically all the time places a
restriction that prevents the place from being stigmatized in a way that
"Ebola" doesn't because there is not normally any qualifier associated
with it when talking about the deadly condition.
Kevrob
2020-03-31 22:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Kevrob
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
The tick-borne illness was first discovered at Lyme and Old Lyme,
but Lyme got stuck with the name. There's an East Lyme, also.
People misspell it as "Lime Disease" often enough that the towns
don't suffer from it.
I'm pretty sure that from a cognitive perspective, to have the condition
referred to as "Lyme DISEASE" basically all the time places a
restriction that prevents the place from being stigmatized in a way that
"Ebola" doesn't because there is not normally any qualifier associated
with it when talking about the deadly condition.
"Ebola" is short for ebolavirus. I heard that on the news as much
as "ebola" by itself, but it didn't come up much in general conversation.

Lyme is tick-borne. If you stay out of the woods, out of the
tall grass and brush, and you don't have pets bringing the ticks
back to you, you aren't likely to catch it. There are rodents in
the American Southwest with fleas that carry Yersinia pestis - the
"black death" bacterium. Very few folks interact with them, though.
There are maybe 7 plague cases a year in the US.

https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#cases

Now, should the disease go pneumonic, in a population center?
Brrrrrrrr!!!!!

I don't freak out driving through the Lymes on I-95, which
I do, several times a year. One is just as likely to be
bitten by a deer tick near the New York border, or out in
Wisconsin, if you were hiking a trail or out hunting, without
taking precautions.

If I were from Zaire, I think I'd want to rename the river
and region to something else.

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-31 22:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Kevrob
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by David Johnston
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Chris Buckley
There's a long tradition of calling a disease (or a virus) after
the location of its initial outbreak (just yesterday I was reading about
the Lassa virus, named after the African village it was first noticed in).
However, the official naming bodies are trying to get away from that.
"Ebola" is named after the Ebola river, which is in the area the disease was
first characterized in.
And it's really rough on the people who live there since they have real
problems now shipping anything in or out.
Funnily, it doesn't seem that the same problem is nearly as rampant when
it comes to Lyme, Connecticut.
The tick-borne illness was first discovered at Lyme and Old Lyme,
but Lyme got stuck with the name. There's an East Lyme, also.
People misspell it as "Lime Disease" often enough that the towns
don't suffer from it.
I'm pretty sure that from a cognitive perspective, to have the condition
referred to as "Lyme DISEASE" basically all the time places a
restriction that prevents the place from being stigmatized in a way that
"Ebola" doesn't because there is not normally any qualifier associated
with it when talking about the deadly condition.
"Ebola" is short for ebolavirus. I heard that on the news as much
as "ebola" by itself, but it didn't come up much in general conversation.
Lyme is tick-borne. If you stay out of the woods, out of the
tall grass and brush, and you don't have pets bringing the ticks
back to you, you aren't likely to catch it. There are rodents in
the American Southwest with fleas that carry Yersinia pestis - the
"black death" bacterium. Very few folks interact with them, though.
There are maybe 7 plague cases a year in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#cases
Now, should the disease go pneumonic, in a population center?
Brrrrrrrr!!!!!
I don't freak out driving through the Lymes on I-95, which
I do, several times a year. One is just as likely to be
bitten by a deer tick near the New York border, or out in
Wisconsin, if you were hiking a trail or out hunting, without
taking precautions.
If I were from Zaire, I think I'd want to rename the river
and region to something else.
Kevin R
There are 300,000 new Lyme cases a year in the USA according to the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html

Lynn
Kevrob
2020-03-31 22:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
Lyme is tick-borne. If you stay out of the woods, out of the
tall grass and brush, and you don't have pets bringing the ticks
back to you, you aren't likely to catch it. There are rodents in
the American Southwest with fleas that carry Yersinia pestis - the
"black death" bacterium. Very few folks interact with them, though.
There are maybe 7 plague cases a year in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#cases
Now, should the disease go pneumonic, in a population center?
Brrrrrrrr!!!!!
I don't freak out driving through the Lymes on I-95, which
I do, several times a year. One is just as likely to be
bitten by a deer tick near the New York border, or out in
Wisconsin, if you were hiking a trail or out hunting, without
taking precautions.
If I were from Zaire, I think I'd want to rename the river
and region to something else.
There are 300,000 new Lyme cases a year in the USA according to the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html
A lot of people go rambling where there are ticks,
or let their dogs run through areas where ticks live,
without taking precautions. Many people get deep tans
and risk skin cancer.

Quite a few people are, to use a technical term, dopes.

Kevin R
Carl Fink
2020-03-31 23:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
A lot of people go rambling where there are ticks,
or let their dogs run through areas where ticks live,
without taking precautions. Many people get deep tans
and risk skin cancer.
I work for an energy utility. We spend a lot of time educating our gas and
electric crews about detecting and removing ticks. They find a lot of
ticks, but to my knowledge we've had zero Lyme cases in the past decade. The
tick has to be there for 24 hours to infect a human.
--
Carl Fink ***@finknetwork.com
https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it.
-Kenne Estes
J. Clarke
2020-04-01 00:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
Lyme is tick-borne. If you stay out of the woods, out of the
tall grass and brush, and you don't have pets bringing the ticks
back to you, you aren't likely to catch it. There are rodents in
the American Southwest with fleas that carry Yersinia pestis - the
"black death" bacterium. Very few folks interact with them, though.
There are maybe 7 plague cases a year in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#cases
Now, should the disease go pneumonic, in a population center?
Brrrrrrrr!!!!!
I don't freak out driving through the Lymes on I-95, which
I do, several times a year. One is just as likely to be
bitten by a deer tick near the New York border, or out in
Wisconsin, if you were hiking a trail or out hunting, without
taking precautions.
If I were from Zaire, I think I'd want to rename the river
and region to something else.
There are 300,000 new Lyme cases a year in the USA according to the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html
A lot of people go rambling where there are ticks,
or let their dogs run through areas where ticks live,
without taking precautions. Many people get deep tans
and risk skin cancer.
Quite a few people are, to use a technical term, dopes.
Or have different priorities from those who prioritize living forever.
Or has a detailed understanding of the risk and decides that it is
accepable (I work with a lot of actuaries).
Kevrob
2020-04-01 04:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Kevrob
Lyme is tick-borne. If you stay out of the woods, out of the
tall grass and brush, and you don't have pets bringing the ticks
back to you, you aren't likely to catch it. There are rodents in
the American Southwest with fleas that carry Yersinia pestis - the
"black death" bacterium. Very few folks interact with them, though.
There are maybe 7 plague cases a year in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#cases
Now, should the disease go pneumonic, in a population center?
Brrrrrrrr!!!!!
I don't freak out driving through the Lymes on I-95, which
I do, several times a year. One is just as likely to be
bitten by a deer tick near the New York border, or out in
Wisconsin, if you were hiking a trail or out hunting, without
taking precautions.
If I were from Zaire, I think I'd want to rename the river
and region to something else.
There are 300,000 new Lyme cases a year in the USA according to the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html
A lot of people go rambling where there are ticks,
or let their dogs run through areas where ticks live,
without taking precautions. Many people get deep tans
and risk skin cancer.
Quite a few people are, to use a technical term, dopes.
Or have different priorities from those who prioritize living forever.
Or has a detailed understanding of the risk and decides that it is
acceptable (I work with a lot of actuaries).
I think recognizing risk and taking reasonable precautions beats
trying to live forever all hollow. I've been walking and bicycle
riding through wooded areas of CT for more than a decade. I know
to wear the right clothing and use an effective spray to repel the
buggers. I'm also Mr Sunscreen, with fair Irish skin.

I like Carl's approach. Knowledge is power! [/Schoolhouse Rocky!]

I had an awful experience after walking through a wooded lot in the
springtime on Long Island's North Shore when I was in my late teens.
Something - it was never determined what - bit me, and I developed
an extremely painful shingles-type rash. It responded to a cortisone
shot and the problem did not recur, but I've been wary about mystery
insect bites ever since. I spent my entire youth traversing small
woods like that, and could not fathom what had gotten me. I might
have an allergy to something I never encountered again...?

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2020-03-30 21:50:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
Chinese Flu 2 of course.

And COVID-19 is not the virus.
Paul S Person
2020-03-31 16:31:06 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.

And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.

I grew up with this stuff. I probably know (well, knew, it's been a
long time) a hundred or so racist epithets, and they cover pretty much
everybody. Including non-WASP Europeans. But to know them is not to
use them, whether in speech or when speaking/writing.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Scott Lurndal
2020-03-31 16:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.

"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
Robert Carnegie
2020-04-01 03:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And how "Chinese" are "Asian Americans", typically?
Alan Baker
2020-04-01 03:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And how "Chinese" are "Asian Americans", typically?
That would actually a part of the point:

Bigots and racists don't stop to ask those questions.
J. Clarke
2020-04-01 03:15:36 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And how "Chinese" are "Asian Americans", typically?
And how many were there before the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched?

Generally speaking if a means of publicizing something is provided,
there will be a spike in reported incidents shortly after. This
doesn't mean a change in the number of incidents, it means a change in
the number of publicized reports.
h***@gmail.com
2020-04-01 03:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And how "Chinese" are "Asian Americans", typically?
And how many were there before the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched?
Generally speaking if a means of publicizing something is provided,
there will be a spike in reported incidents shortly after. This
doesn't mean a change in the number of incidents, it means a change in
the number of publicized reports.
Yes, people were doubtless targeting Asian-Americans for Covid-19 years ago...
Don't make a group of people targets during a disaster
Alan Baker
2020-04-01 04:22:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And how "Chinese" are "Asian Americans", typically?
And how many were there before the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched?
Generally speaking if a means of publicizing something is provided,
there will be a spike in reported incidents shortly after. This
doesn't mean a change in the number of incidents, it means a change in
the number of publicized reports.
And you don't care if the reports are true...

...or who is responsible.
Paul S Person
2020-04-01 16:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet. There /are/ racist
epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" isn't one of
them.
Regardless of your opinion on this, it appears that many don't seem
to agree with it. Anything becomes an epithet when used in a
certain manner, including indirectly ascribing blame. To the point
where unenlightened trump supporters have attacked hundreds of asian
americans in the last few weeks.
"There have been reports of over 1000 xenophobia and racism cases
against Asian Americans between January 28 and February 24, 2020,
which was during the first COVID-19 cases that were reported in the
United States. Within one week after the "Stop AAPI Hate" website was
launched, there were over 650 reports of discrimination that were
mainly against Asian Americans"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
And that is my point:

if you treat any word that any racist uses as an insult as a racist
slur, than /racists/ are in control of our language -- and you are a
puppet whose strings they can pull any time they wish

Racists should not be allowed to control /anything/. And those who act
out should be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. All
of them.

And it is important to recognize that it is not the ideology that is
the problem, it is the /fanaticism/ -- and that this applies across
the board. The rebranded Anarchists who now call themselves "Antifa"
are /just/ as much a problem as any other fanatics. It doesn't matter
what "side" they are on.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
David Johnston
2020-03-31 17:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
Kevrob
2020-03-31 17:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which
doesn't mean "Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
"Jew doctor" sounds disparaging, where "Jewish doctor" doesn't.
"Jew banker" sounds like you are about to start to rant about
the Rothschilds, the Elders of Zion and the Gnomes of Zurich.

Members of the US Democratic Party will froth if you
leave off the last two letters, as when Bob Dole mentioned
"Democrat wars" in the 1976 vice-presidential debate.
It's perfectly OK to say "Joe Biden is a Democrat," though.

Kevin R
Paul S Person
2020-04-01 16:18:50 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.

This should not be allowed.

Perhaps laughing at them when they attempt it would work ... something
like "you dummy, that isn't an insult".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
David Johnston
2020-04-01 16:55:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
<shrug> I haven't heard of anyone treating "Chinese" itself as a racist
epithet.
Alan Baker
2020-04-01 18:56:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
Its particular use in this instance is racist in intent.

It is to deflect blame:

"This isn't my fault that we have far more cases and far more death than
I said would occur! Blame the Chinese!"
Post by Paul S Person
This should not be allowed.
Perhaps laughing at them when they attempt it would work ... something
like "you dummy, that isn't an insult".
Paul S Person
2020-04-02 16:58:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:56:18 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
Its particular use in this instance is racist in intent.
"This isn't my fault that we have far more cases and far more death than
I said would occur! Blame the Chinese!"
Deflecting blame is not racism.

It is childish.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
This should not be allowed.
Perhaps laughing at them when they attempt it would work ... something
like "you dummy, that isn't an insult".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Alan Baker
2020-04-02 17:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:56:18 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
Its particular use in this instance is racist in intent.
"This isn't my fault that we have far more cases and far more death than
I said would occur! Blame the Chinese!"
Deflecting blame is not racism.
I didn't say it was.

What I said was that it was being done to influence racists.
Post by Paul S Person
It is childish.
I wish I could agree. This is calculated.
J. Clarke
2020-04-02 21:53:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 09:58:13 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:56:18 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
Its particular use in this instance is racist in intent.
"This isn't my fault that we have far more cases and far more death than
I said would occur! Blame the Chinese!"
Deflecting blame is not racism.
It is childish.
However if in fact the Chinese could with reasonable effort have
reduced the number of infected persons who left the country, then they
certainly have some responsibility.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
This should not be allowed.
Perhaps laughing at them when they attempt it would work ... something
like "you dummy, that isn't an insult".
Alan Baker
2020-04-02 22:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 09:58:13 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:56:18 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:33:37 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:34:59 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
I agree with that but I have a question. If we call this virus the
"China Flu", what are we going to call the next virus that comes out of
China? (That's why I'm in favor of calling it COVID-19. Bit more
specific.)
I use COVID-19 myself. Much clearer.
And, BTW, "Chinese" is not a racist epithet.
Well obviously. Jew isn't a racist epithet either, which doesn't mean
"Jew banker" can't be used in a racist way.
My point is that treating "Chinese" (or "Jewish") as a racist epithet
/just because racists use it that way/ allows the /racists/ to control
the English language.
Its particular use in this instance is racist in intent.
"This isn't my fault that we have far more cases and far more death than
I said would occur! Blame the Chinese!"
Deflecting blame is not racism.
It is childish.
However if in fact the Chinese could with reasonable effort have
reduced the number of infected persons who left the country, then they
certainly have some responsibility.
Or if...

And I'm just spitballing here.

...if the US president had gotten off his ass and paid attention to the
briefings he'd been sent.
Titus G
2020-04-03 03:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Deflecting blame is not racism.
It is childish.
But instead of neatly using a new piece of paper, he chose to insert it
at the bottom of a long argument. Tsk, tsk.
Alan Baker
2020-04-03 03:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Paul S Person
Deflecting blame is not racism.
It is childish.
But instead of neatly using a new piece of paper, he chose to insert it
at the bottom of a long argument. Tsk, tsk.
Are you paying by the line?

No?

David Johnston
2020-03-30 21:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
Paul S Person
2020-03-31 16:43:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".

And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.

The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.

Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.

So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.

What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Alan Baker
2020-03-31 16:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.

You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.

In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.

He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
Paul S Person
2020-04-01 16:26:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
Post by Alan Baker
You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.
No. Only racists use racist speech. They may not think of themselves
as racist, but they are. This is a major problem, as might well be
imagined.
Post by Alan Baker
In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.
I thought his point was that he /did/ act and that his actions saved
lives.

Total horsepucky, of course, but what else do you expect from Trump?
Post by Alan Baker
He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
He doesn't take advice. He knows everything. He has said so himself.
Many times.

He also has a 3-second attention span. As it shifts from topic to
topic, his statements do the same.

No planning, no thinking, no advice -- just brainless blathering.

Still, he does occasionally get something right. Grounding the
737-Max, for example, even though the FAA saw no reason to do so just
because two of them flew themselves into the ground.

To quote a judge on an old Perry Mason show:
"When a man's right, he's right"

Trump, of course, is mostly wrong.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Carnegie
2020-04-01 18:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
If the proper response to racism is to ignore it,
that'll save us a lot of time. And also we don't
have to consider, "Oh, was that racist, should I
do something?" if when it is, we don't.
Paul S Person
2020-04-02 17:14:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
If the proper response to racism is to ignore it,
that'll save us a lot of time. And also we don't
have to consider, "Oh, was that racist, should I
do something?" if when it is, we don't.
I never said "ignore it".

I said "don't support it". Visibly.

I said "identify it". And don't allow any excuses or evasions.

And now I am suggesing "laugh at it". Treat racist statements as you
would flat-earther statements. Make it clear that it is the stupidest
thing you have encountered in a long time. Just be sure you are
wearing full protective gear when you do, you never know.

A recent issue of /Science News/ had an article on the race question
in the Census:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/census-2020-race-ethnicity-questions

The basic point is that /how people answer about themselves/ is not
necessarily the same as /how people appear to others/. Note especially
the discussion of the /two/ "one-drop rule"s.

This is because there are different definitions of "race" out there.

This causes problems because, when the racial composition of a school
is computed, it is usually the composition assigned by others, not the
composition that would result from self-reporting. This can leave the
school's reporting and the census' reporting of the same area
measuring two different things which are presumed to be the same.

To this, I would add the suggestion that this means that the very
/concept/ of "race" is undefinable. It is undefinable because
different individuals and (more to the point) cultures have /their own
definitions/.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Alan Baker
2020-04-01 19:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
Post by Alan Baker
You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.
No. Only racists use racist speech. They may not think of themselves
as racist, but they are. This is a major problem, as might well be
imagined.
But people who aren't racist can still say things that racists will
seize upon.

There are times when this is unavoidable.

This is not one of those times and in fact, the persons promulgating the
term are doing so deliberately to influence the racists in the population.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Alan Baker
In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.
I thought his point was that he /did/ act and that his actions saved
lives.
On the odd numbered days.

On the even, he claims that no one could have known...

...and on all days, he wants to lay blame.
Post by Paul S Person
Total horsepucky, of course, but what else do you expect from Trump?
Post by Alan Baker
He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
He doesn't take advice. He knows everything. He has said so himself.
Many times.
You're wrong about that. He may not listen to the right people...

...but he clearly does listen to SOME people.
Post by Paul S Person
He also has a 3-second attention span. As it shifts from topic to
topic, his statements do the same.
So you only need to be close enough to him to reinforce his "thinking"
every three seconds.

That limits the number of influencers, but gives those with that access
tremendous influence.
Post by Paul S Person
No planning, no thinking, no advice -- just brainless blathering.
Still, he does occasionally get something right. Grounding the
737-Max, for example, even though the FAA saw no reason to do so just
because two of them flew themselves into the ground.
Ummmm... ...how do you know Trump was responsible for the grounding...

...and not the delay in grounding them?

(And BTW, it was only 3 days after the second accident that the US
grounded the planes. That's only 2 days after the first civil aviation
authority did so.)
Post by Paul S Person
"When a man's right, he's right"
Trump, of course, is mostly wrong.
J. Clarke
2020-04-01 21:33:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Apr 2020 09:26:09 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
Post by Alan Baker
You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.
No. Only racists use racist speech. They may not think of themselves
as racist, but they are. This is a major problem, as might well be
imagined.
Post by Alan Baker
In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.
I thought his point was that he /did/ act and that his actions saved
lives.
Total horsepucky, of course, but what else do you expect from Trump?
Post by Alan Baker
He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
He doesn't take advice. He knows everything. He has said so himself.
Many times.
He also has a 3-second attention span. As it shifts from topic to
topic, his statements do the same.
No planning, no thinking, no advice -- just brainless blathering.
Still, he does occasionally get something right. Grounding the
737-Max, for example, even though the FAA saw no reason to do so just
because two of them flew themselves into the ground.
"When a man's right, he's right"
Trump, of course, is mostly wrong.
Would you and Alan GET A ROOM please?
Alan Baker
2020-04-01 21:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 01 Apr 2020 09:26:09 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
Post by Alan Baker
You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.
No. Only racists use racist speech. They may not think of themselves
as racist, but they are. This is a major problem, as might well be
imagined.
Post by Alan Baker
In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.
I thought his point was that he /did/ act and that his actions saved
lives.
Total horsepucky, of course, but what else do you expect from Trump?
Post by Alan Baker
He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
He doesn't take advice. He knows everything. He has said so himself.
Many times.
He also has a 3-second attention span. As it shifts from topic to
topic, his statements do the same.
No planning, no thinking, no advice -- just brainless blathering.
Still, he does occasionally get something right. Grounding the
737-Max, for example, even though the FAA saw no reason to do so just
because two of them flew themselves into the ground.
"When a man's right, he's right"
Trump, of course, is mostly wrong.
Would you and Alan GET A ROOM please?
Unable to actually rebut any of this...
Lynn McGuire
2020-04-01 21:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 01 Apr 2020 09:26:09 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:51:03 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
It's not whether it's factual or not that matters in this instance.
Post by Paul S Person
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
No. Bullshit.
Yep. Feel those tugs on your strings yet?
Post by Alan Baker
You can give ammunition for racists to act as racists will without being
racist yourself.
No. Only racists use racist speech. They may not think of themselves
as racist, but they are. This is a major problem, as might well be
imagined.
Post by Alan Baker
In this case, you have a president who is using the term to deflect
anger from his failure to act, because he knows it will work with the
percentage of his base (and some who aren't in his base) who are racists.
I thought his point was that he /did/ act and that his actions saved
lives.
Total horsepucky, of course, but what else do you expect from Trump?
Post by Alan Baker
He knows this, or at least ought to know, but my belief is that he has
been advised to use this strategy.
He doesn't take advice. He knows everything. He has said so himself.
Many times.
He also has a 3-second attention span. As it shifts from topic to
topic, his statements do the same.
No planning, no thinking, no advice -- just brainless blathering.
Still, he does occasionally get something right. Grounding the
737-Max, for example, even though the FAA saw no reason to do so just
because two of them flew themselves into the ground.
"When a man's right, he's right"
Trump, of course, is mostly wrong.
Would you and Alan GET A ROOM please?
Ah, another Joe Exotic video in the making. I will pass.


Lynn
David Johnston
2020-03-31 17:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:15:03 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
And as we all know, irritating people is the best way to make them
compliant.
Post by Paul S Person
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements
Calling it "Chinese Flu" is not a factual statement.
It is at least as factual as "Chinese checkers".
And if you are going to tell me that "Chinese checkers" did not
originate in China (which may be true), then it is /more/ factual
because the virus clearly /did/.
Post by David Johnston
Post by Paul S Person
just because racists wave them like banners.
How does one "discourage" racism?
The first step is to not support it. The original /12 Angry Men/ has a
scene where a racist holds forth and 10 or the other 11 /turn their
backs/ on him.
The second step is to call it what it is. Racists /hate/ being told
they are acting like racists.
Beyond that, things are less clear because /we are in the second
step/. But the next step will appear in due course.
So, telling /actual racists/ that they are /acting like racists/ when
they talk about "Chinese flu" is one thing; insisting that everyone
else avoid the term is something else.
But the coronavirus isn't "Chinese flu". It isn't any kind of flu.
Mike Van Pelt
2020-03-31 21:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
And as much as I am inclined to equate racists with the shallow
fetid stagnant backwaters of the gene pool, some of them are
actually pretty crafty -- and they deliberately take innocuous
things in common use, and make a show of them being "one of their
symbols" just to mess with decent folks. (see the "OK" hand sign.)
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Magewolf
2020-04-01 20:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Paul S Person
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
And as much as I am inclined to equate racists with the shallow
fetid stagnant backwaters of the gene pool, some of them are
actually pretty crafty -- and they deliberately take innocuous
things in common use, and make a show of them being "one of their
symbols" just to mess with decent folks. (see the "OK" hand sign.)
That "OK" thing has nothing to do with anybody being crafty. A
group(maybe it should be called a plague or something)of 4-channers
thought it would be funny to show how stupid and easily manipulated mass
media was so they came up with the whole "OK" symbol thing out of whole
cloth. And than started planting stories about it around in some of the
"right" Left leaning places. So this wholly made up story was grabbed
by the mass media with no fact checking at all or they would have seen
it was made up. Then they started running story after story about it
until it came out that it was all made up.

I believe the story now is that since everyone in the news was saying
the "OK" symbol was a racist sign the actual racists started using it.
But that story is coming from the same people who ran with the fake
story in the first place so I take it with a grain of salt. But
regardless the extent that "OK" is a racist symbol is the mass media
fault not crafty racists.
Paul S Person
2020-04-02 17:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Paul S Person
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
And as much as I am inclined to equate racists with the shallow
fetid stagnant backwaters of the gene pool, some of them are
actually pretty crafty -- and they deliberately take innocuous
things in common use, and make a show of them being "one of their
symbols" just to mess with decent folks. (see the "OK" hand sign.)
That "OK" thing has nothing to do with anybody being crafty. A
group(maybe it should be called a plague or something)of 4-channers
thought it would be funny to show how stupid and easily manipulated mass
media was so they came up with the whole "OK" symbol thing out of whole
cloth. And than started planting stories about it around in some of the
"right" Left leaning places. So this wholly made up story was grabbed
by the mass media with no fact checking at all or they would have seen
it was made up. Then they started running story after story about it
until it came out that it was all made up.
I believe the story now is that since everyone in the news was saying
the "OK" symbol was a racist sign the actual racists started using it.
But that story is coming from the same people who ran with the fake
story in the first place so I take it with a grain of salt. But
regardless the extent that "OK" is a racist symbol is the mass media
fault not crafty racists.
Yes, naming groups of people /can/ be ... amusing.

In the Army, we decided on the following:

a group of Officers is a "confusion"
unless they are all O-1s (the newbies), in which case they are an
"incompetency"

but what to call 4-channers escapes me at the moment.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2020-04-02 18:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Magewolf
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Paul S Person
What it /is/ is reducing oneself to a puppet and letting the racists
pull ones strings. It is to give /racists/ control over language.
And as much as I am inclined to equate racists with the shallow
fetid stagnant backwaters of the gene pool, some of them are
actually pretty crafty -- and they deliberately take innocuous
things in common use, and make a show of them being "one of their
symbols" just to mess with decent folks. (see the "OK" hand sign.)
That "OK" thing has nothing to do with anybody being crafty. A
group(maybe it should be called a plague or something)of 4-channers
thought it would be funny to show how stupid and easily manipulated mass
media was so they came up with the whole "OK" symbol thing out of whole
cloth. And than started planting stories about it around in some of the
"right" Left leaning places. So this wholly made up story was grabbed
by the mass media with no fact checking at all or they would have seen
it was made up. Then they started running story after story about it
until it came out that it was all made up.
I believe the story now is that since everyone in the news was saying
the "OK" symbol was a racist sign the actual racists started using it.
But that story is coming from the same people who ran with the fake
story in the first place so I take it with a grain of salt. But
regardless the extent that "OK" is a racist symbol is the mass media
fault not crafty racists.
Yes, naming groups of people /can/ be ... amusing.
a group of Officers is a "confusion"
unless they are all O-1s (the newbies), in which case they are an
"incompetency"
but what to call 4-channers escapes me at the moment.
A cave of trolls?

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Alan Baker
2020-03-30 22:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
For what reason do you think Trump insists on calling this "Chinese", Paul?

Your opinion.
Paul S Person
2020-03-31 16:37:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:22:01 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
For what reason do you think Trump insists on calling this "Chinese", Paul?
Your opinion.
Because it originated in China.

And he doesn't trust science, so doesn't use the scientific name.

As I have noted elsewhere, "Chinese" is /not/ a racist epithet. There
are racist epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" is
not one of them.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Alan Baker
2020-03-31 16:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:22:01 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Paul S Person
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
Post by Magewolf
Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is. That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
I'm in favor of that.
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
The Win10 News thingy has a /NY Times/ article titled "China Created a
Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed."
Guess what /that/ is about?
I don't like Trump. But this isn't a Trump Talking Point. It's
reality.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
Given their insistance that it not be called that, I would say that
they are /definitely/ irritated by it.
As to racism: the key is to /discourage racism/, not to attack factual
statements just because racists wave them like banners.
This is a practical counsel: /any/ statement can become racist if a
racist uses it in a racist manner. There is /no/ reason to allow
racists to control what the rest of us can or cannot say.
For what reason do you think Trump insists on calling this "Chinese", Paul?
Your opinion.
Because it originated in China.
Nope.

That's evading the question and you know it.
Post by Paul S Person
And he doesn't trust science, so doesn't use the scientific name.
As I have noted elsewhere, "Chinese" is /not/ a racist epithet. There
are racist epithets for persons of Chinese descent, but "Chinese" is
not one of them.
I never said it was a racist "epithet", did I?
Magewolf
2020-03-30 19:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one)
The earliest cases that have been tracked down didn't have any links to the wet markets.
There was a cluster that did but that might just have been they caught it from another person there
Post by Magewolf
and teaching and enforcing a bare minimum of personal hygiene would help.
Evidence that Chinese personal hygiene is worse than USA personal hygiene goes here...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23790806

Found that in 2 minutes. There are more if you want to look and it
lines up with what I saw there as well.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease
There's no evidence that happened.
Post by Magewolf
while threatening doctors to keep them quiet.
Listened to Trump recently?
As I mentioned before I have heard that from people in China not from Trump.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.
Compare the Chinese cases to the US cases.
Yes, lots of Chinese people died because of their government's attempts
to hide a new virus and more were put in virtual prison to make up for
it for the failure.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Bullshit
David Johnston
2020-03-30 17:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:55:11 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is
true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
That doesn't make it morally right.
Post by Magewolf
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
Nope. That is complete and utter bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
More bullshit.
Post by Magewolf
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it
a reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to
keep this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How do you imagine you can change the fact that the most populous
country on earth is therefore the most likely place for a new pathogen
to emerge?
Closing all the "wet markets"(where most of the "new" viruses that pop
up in China come from including this one) and teaching and enforcing a
bare minimum of personal hygiene would help. Outlawing most of Chinese
Traditional Medicine as the quackery it is.  That would help with virus
transmission and eating endangered species at the same time.
Setting up a system that would not spend 3 weeks to a month trying to
pass the buck on a new disease while threatening doctors to keep them
quiet.
So there are a lot of things China could do to save themselves or the
world but they show no sign of doing any of it.  So calling it the
Chinese Flu and pointing out it is their fault at every opportunity
might at least shame them into to doing something.
Throwing pooh doesn't have a history of getting people to do anything
except throw pooh back.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-03-30 01:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
Post by John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it a
reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to keep
this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How many nations have the power to hold China's feed to a fire? Damn few.

Is China going to listen to any of them? Not a chance in hell.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Paul S Person
2020-03-30 17:12:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:37:38 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Magewolf
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:33:01 -0400, John W Kennedy
On 29 Mar 2020 at 18:09:15 BST, "Paul S Person"
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19.  The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
It is about blame for the right-wing nut jobs who are basically the only
people trying to persuade us to use the term. So, no. We're all on this mud
ball together and anyone who is intentionally inciting bigotry needs to be
shut down for all our futures.
It’s also about Asian-Americans being chased and beaten by angry mobs.
That's certainly a problem but I don't see how caling the disease
"Chinese flu" leads to those chasings and beatings.
You don't see very much, do you?
The right-wing is only trying to shift blame by calling this a
"chinese" virus.
It's deflection.
It incites bigotry.
It's wrong.
It's factually accurate.
The reason for every death from this is that China is partially still
living in the Dark Ages and the Chinese government grossly mishandled it.
So it is the Chinese flu because it came from China and it's China's
fault people are dying from it.
Now is that any reason to attack Asian people?  No, it is not.  Is it a
reason to hold China's feet over a fire until they do something to keep
this from happening again?  Yes it is.
How many nations have the power to hold China's feed to a fire? Damn few.
Is China going to listen to any of them? Not a chance in hell.
Personally, I hope their attempts to marked East Asian Technotrash on
Amazon expose them to customer feedback from non-subservient
customers, thus improving their products. Some of these would be very
useful if they actually worked.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2020-03-29 17:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
OTOH, the 1918/19 flu was called "Spanish flu" although it did not
originate in Spain -- it was just that Spain, unlike the USA, Britain,
and France, did not try to hide the problem in 1918 and so the
association was formed. But then, Spain, at least by that point,
didn't consider itself the ruler of the world.
--
The flu of the last century may also have arrived in Europe from
China!

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

Since China has the largest population, it is just probability that,
all else being equal, that a new virus will have a Chinese "patient
zero." All else is NOT equal. Practices in undeveloped area of
China, or the African countries, allow for trans-species transmission
that are less common in the developed world. HIV was supposed to have
been picked up from hunting and eating chimpanzees.

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-03-29 20:17:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
This isn't about /manufacturing/, it's about /origin/.
So, unless eBooks were /invented/ in China, they are not "Chinese" in
the sense intended.
The reason "Chinese flu" is controversial is because the leaders of
China bitterly resents the term, feeling that, as the natural rulers
of the world (if not the universe), they are above blame. All blame.
Deserved or not.
But the name is not about /blame/; it is about /origin/.
OTOH, the 1918/19 flu was called "Spanish flu" although it did not
originate in Spain -- it was just that Spain, unlike the USA, Britain,
and France, did not try to hide the problem in 1918 and so the
association was formed. But then, Spain, at least by that point,
didn't consider itself the ruler of the world.
More to the point, Spain was neutral in WWI and didn't feel so
great a need to conceal its difficulties.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Titus G
2020-03-29 20:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by J. Clarke
And most people who are not terminally pedantic get that "Chinese Flu"
is COVID-19. The people berating other people over calling it
"Chinese" have something wrong with them--it originated in China
(unless one of the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is true)--stuff
originating in China is Chinese.
So, do you read ebooks or Chinese Codices?
Don't mention kiwifruit.
Lynn McGuire
2020-03-29 20:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.
COVID-19
Please do some research.

BTW, if the Obama administration had bothered to finish the vaccine for
SARS 1, we might not be in this mess. The testing kits for SARS 1 work
for SARS 2, we might have been lucky enough that the vaccine would
worked also.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

Lynn
Alan Baker
2020-03-29 21:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.
COVID-19
Please do some research.
BTW, if the Obama administration had bothered to finish the vaccine for
SARS 1, we might not be in this mess.  The testing kits for SARS 1 work
for SARS 2, we might have been lucky enough that the vaccine would
worked also.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091
Lynn
Bullshit.

Testing is very different from a vaccine, and you haven't even proved
your claim.
Robert Carnegie
2020-03-29 22:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
    https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
No, I'm pretty sure it's about COVID-19.
SARS 2.
COVID-19
Please do some research.
BTW, if the Obama administration had bothered to finish the vaccine for
SARS 1, we might not be in this mess. The testing kits for SARS 1 work
for SARS 2, we might have been lucky enough that the vaccine would
worked also.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091
Lynn
This is the SARS that was a problem in 2002-2003?
Indeed, whatever was the president concerned with then?

"Now watch this drive."
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-03-27 05:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Recurring Nightmare
   https://www.xkcd.com/2285/
Took me a minute, it is a Chinese Flu joke.
As was recently re-posted on the author's blog:

"Reno, are you there?"

"Yes."

"Hand this Texan's ass to him."

Cheers,
Gary B-)
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