Discussion:
John Ford's Star Trek
(too old to reply)
Damien Sullivan
2007-01-31 00:10:32 UTC
Permalink
John Ford wrote two Star Trek novels that I know of, both fairly famous
among fans. One, _How Much For the Planet_ is loved by some as clever
comedy and loathed by others as character-abusing claptrap. The other,
_The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a depiction of
an alien culture[1].

But there's a common element I had not noticed before[2]. In HMftP, the
colonists of Direidi engage in Plan C ("for Comedy"), an attempt to make
Federation and Klingon ambassadors look very silly. This is the main
bulk of the book, though I forget if the point was to embarrass them
into playing nice on the spot, or to generate blackmail material.

In tFR, Captain Krenn figures out the human concept of "silly" and uses
it to his advantage, by being one unarmed polite Klingon where the
Federation expected a snarling dangerous horde. This is a small part of
the book, or perhaps more accurately a quiet part of the book, but a
significant one.

Anyway, I've read both books multiple times, but just noticed that on
the last re-read of tFR. I figured I'd share.

-xx- Damien X-)

[1] Though the space combat scenes have all the realism of, well, a very
unrealistic thing.

[2] There's a second element in common -- and distinct from most other
Star Trek novels or shows in any series. They take the Organian Peace
Treaty seriously; the lightbulbs are still on the job.
htn963
2007-01-31 01:47:33 UTC
Permalink
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a depiction of
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.

Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.

--
Ht
Taki Kogoma
2007-01-31 01:59:35 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Jan 2007 17:47:33 -0800, "htn963" <***@verizon.net>
allegedly declared to rec.arts.sf.written...
Post by Damien Sullivan
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a
depiction of
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk -- quirk @ swcp.com | /"\ ASCII RIBBON
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | \ / CAMPAIGN
Just an article detector on the | X AGAINST HTML MAIL
Information Supercollider. | / \ AND POSTINGS
Damien Sullivan
2007-01-31 02:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taki Kogoma
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
I've said this before, but for my 8th birthday a classmate gave me a box
set of MEME, US, the Wounded Sky (also by Duane), and the Tears of the
Singers.

3, maybe 4 books about saving the Federation. 2 about saving the
universe. This may have given me a biased sample.

-xx- Damien X-)
htn963
2007-02-01 02:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Damien Sullivan
Post by Taki Kogoma
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
I've said this before, but for my 8th birthday a classmate gave me a box
set of MEME, US, the Wounded Sky (also by Duane), and the Tears of the
Singers.
3, maybe 4 books about saving the Federation. 2 about saving the
universe. This may have given me a biased sample.
-xx- Damien X-)
I'll take that as also a "yes" to my original question, your
sentimental childhood reminiscence notwithstanding.

--
Ht
Tom Holt
2007-02-08 22:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taki Kogoma
allegedly declared to rec.arts.sf.written...
Post by Damien Sullivan
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a
depiction of
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
I can claim the dubious honour of having read 90% of the Trek tie-in
novels; as a fan to begin with, and thereafter as a paid* reviewer. I
only started watching the TV shows after I'd read and enjoyed a couple
of the novels.

10% are *awful* - "Shadow Lord", "Black Fire" , the Q Continuum Trilogy
and the contributions of John Vornholt and Jan Michael Friedman stand
out in the traumatised memory. 60% are mildly entertaining but instantly
forgettable. 20% are good, entertaining sci-fi action/adventure, and the
remaining 10% are very good indeed. Not a bad average.

That said; nearly all the good 10% date back quite some way, to before
the reign of John Ordover as commissioning editor at Pocket Books.
Ordover replaced the stand-alone format with trilogies,
thematically-linked series and similar editor-led 'concepts', and
significantly increased the volume of output, with a corresponding
dilution of quality. When Ordover was replaced by Marco Palmieri the
standard rose again, and writers like David George and Keith DeCandido
are writing some pretty good stuff. Neverthless, thre's a dispirited,
almost apologetic air about Trek novels these days, a recognition that
they're playing to a shrinking, ageing market, that echoes the steep
decline of the TV and movie franchises.

IMHO, 'Final Reflection' is far & away the best Trek novel. Sharing
second place are a bunch of Duane/Duane & Morwood titles; 'The Romulan
Way', 'Doctor's Orders', 'My Enemy My Ally'. Diane Carey ('Best
Destiny') and Julia Ecklar ('The Kobayashi Maru') have written some of
the most enthralling action/adventure sequences I've ever read, in or
out of the genre. Barbara Hambly's 'Crossroad' is well worth a look;
likewise Carolyn Clowes' 'The Pandora Principle'. David George's 'The
34th Rule' is the pick of the post-Ordover novels, closely followed by
Andrew Robinson's 'A Stitch In Time'.

Pocket have recently published a massive, tendonitis-inducing compendium
to the whole Trek novel oeuvre ('Voyages of Imagination', compiled by
Jeff Ayers). It's a remarkable piece of scholarship, regardless of what
you may think of Trek or tie-ins in general.


*But not nearly enough.
Don D'Ammassa
2007-02-08 22:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Tom Holt <***@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in news:2007020822102476639
@zetnet.co.uk:
.
Post by Tom Holt
Pocket have recently published a massive, tendonitis-inducing compendium
to the whole Trek novel oeuvre ('Voyages of Imagination', compiled by
Jeff Ayers). It's a remarkable piece of scholarship, regardless of what
you may think of Trek or tie-ins in general.
*But not nearly enough.
I was actually thinking of doing a volume like this one. I have ALL the
Trek novels except a few recent titles, and I've read a very large
proportion of them. But the Ayers book is very good - except that it
misses a few titles that weren't part of the mainstream Trek universe, like
the young adult stuff and, if I remember correctly, he missed Mission to
Horatius.
Sea Wasp
2007-02-08 23:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Holt
I can claim the dubious honour of having read 90% of the Trek tie-in
novels;
I read 100% of the early ones (before the sudden explosion in the
mid-late 80s).


as a fan to begin with, and thereafter as a paid* reviewer. I
Post by Tom Holt
only started watching the TV shows after I'd read and enjoyed a couple
of the novels.
10% are *awful* - "Shadow Lord", "Black Fire" ,
Oh, ouch. Why did you remind me?
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Sean O'Hara
2007-02-09 05:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Holt
That said; nearly all the good 10% date back quite some way, to before
the reign of John Ordover as commissioning editor at Pocket Books.
Ordover replaced the stand-alone format with trilogies,
thematically-linked series and similar editor-led 'concepts',
The best of these (and by best, I mean worst, and by worst I mean
it's right up there with "Dean Koontz's Frankenstein, Volume 1 by
Kevin J. Anderson") being the Star Trek/X-Men crossover novel.
Post by Tom Holt
IMHO, 'Final Reflection' is far & away the best Trek novel. Sharing
second place are a bunch of Duane/Duane & Morwood titles; 'The Romulan
Way', 'Doctor's Orders',
Doctor's Orders may've been good, but it came at a point when every
other book in the series had the same plot -- away team/landing
party containing $crew_members disappears, leaving
$other_crew_memeber in charge of the Enterprise, and then
$alien_villains show up so a rescue mission can't be affected right
away.
--
Sean O'Hara | http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com
Bender: Oh, so Just 'cause a robot wants to kill humans, that makes
him a "radical".
-Futurama
John Reiher
2007-02-09 06:57:37 UTC
Permalink
You know, seeing the subject line for this thread, I thought of a
different John Ford...

"Think of it as a wagon train to the stars..."

With those words, was launch one of the greatest leaps ever made by a
director. John Ford, famous as the greatest director of western films,
decided to make a "sci fi" movie called _Star Trek_. Coming off his
Oscar wining movie, _The Quiet Man_, Ford happen to catch a showing of
_The Day The Earth Stood Still_. Impressed with Wise's movie, he thought
he could do a better sci fi movie, a sci fi movie that reflected
American values. As he had once said, "My name's John Ford. I make
Westerns. I don't think there's anyone who knows more about what the
American public wants than me. I know how to deliver the goods."

Now facing a career breaking jump in genres, especially to a genre
generally believed to be no better than children's fare, he decided to
tackle this new genre with both guns a blazing. The first thing he did
was find a script that he could use to make the kind of move he wanted
to see.

"First off, I knew I didn't want none of them fake looking spaceships
that were flying in most B-Movies. That flying saucer in Wise's movie,
that's what I wanted, something real looking."

He also decided that he'd use the settling of the American West set in
space, which is why the Fort Enterprise was a thinly disguised US
Cavalry fort, and the local settlement was more Dodge City, than Alpha
Centauri.

He was also able to convince the John Ford Stock Company, (John Wayne,
Harry Carey, John Carradine, and Henry Fonda) make the leap as well,
telling them that they wouldn't be wearing silver suits, but futuristic
uniforms.

The aliens/Indians were to use minimal makeup, so they were
distinguished by their costumes and an early use of an appliance, a foam
latex nose and forehead ridge. Topped off with big hair wigs, they were
dubbed "Klingons" by John Wayne, mainly because of how the foam
appliance was always "clinging on to their foreheads.

The story Star Trek would be familiar to many western fans, a group of
settlers want to settle in the middle of Klingon territory, and it's up
to the troops from Fort Enterprise to protect them.

Because he kept the special effects to a minimum, and mostly to sets and
stages built in Utah's Monument Valley, the hardest part of the movie
was script.

"Sometimes I just wanted to pull out a raygun and blast it!" said John
Carradine in an interview. "It was just full of big words like
transmatter teleporter and crap like that."

Ford wisely kept the scenes that involved the Klingons to a minimum, due
to the time it took to get them dressed up and there makeup applied.
Many shortcuts were used, including whole head appliances that extras
would wear in the background shots.

Still, there was the climatic battle between the US Space Rangers and
the Klingon warriors. In many senses, it was the most spectacular battle
ever filmed, even with the blaster beams added in post production. The
sight of the Rangers riding modified motorcycles and jeeps, going up
against Klingons riding heavily disguised motorcycles is one not many
viewer ever forgets. The battle ended in a climatic combat scene between
John Wayne's character Captain James T. Kirk and John Carradine's
character the Klingon warrior Kholof.

It was released in 1954, it went on to become one of biggest
blockbusters for the decade. Ford was nominated for best director and
_Star Trek_ itself was nominated for best picture, which it lost out to
_On the Waterfront_.

Despite it's success, Ford refuse to make a sequel to the movie, saying,
"I now know why no one wants to make these sci fi movies... They are
just too full of special effects and crap."
--
The Kedamono Dragon
Pull Pinky's favorite words to email me.
http://www.ahtg.net
Have Mac, will Compute

Check out the PowerPointers Shop at:
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Scott Lurndal
2007-02-09 19:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Holt
Post by Taki Kogoma
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
[ SNIP ]
Post by Tom Holt
IMHO, 'Final Reflection' is far & away the best Trek novel. Sharing
second place are a bunch of Duane/Duane & Morwood titles; 'The Romulan
Way', 'Doctor's Orders', 'My Enemy My Ally'. Diane Carey ('Best
Destiny') and Julia Ecklar ('The Kobayashi Maru') have written some of
the most enthralling action/adventure sequences I've ever read, in or
out of the genre. Barbara Hambly's 'Crossroad' is well worth a look;
likewise Carolyn Clowes' 'The Pandora Principle'. David George's 'The
34th Rule' is the pick of the post-Ordover novels, closely followed by
Andrew Robinson's 'A Stitch In Time'.
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?

scott
Andrew Plotkin
2007-02-09 19:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
That was in a "Star Trek: The New Voyages" anthology -- very early.

I can't remember which story it was, though. (And my Google powers are
being bogarted by the existence of a recent fan-video series with the
same series title.)

--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
If the Bush administration hasn't shipped you to Syria for interrogation, it's
for one reason: they don't feel like it. Not because of the Eighth Amendment.
The Mad Alchemist
2007-02-09 20:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Plotkin
Post by Scott Lurndal
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
That was in a "Star Trek: The New Voyages" anthology -- very early.
I can't remember which story it was, though. (And my Google powers are
being bogarted by the existence of a recent fan-video series with the
same series title.)
"Visit to a Weird Planet" and "Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited".
Scott Lurndal
2007-02-09 21:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mad Alchemist
Post by Andrew Plotkin
Post by Scott Lurndal
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
That was in a "Star Trek: The New Voyages" anthology -- very early.
I can't remember which story it was, though. (And my Google powers are
being bogarted by the existence of a recent fan-video series with the
same series title.)
"Visit to a Weird Planet" and "Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited".
Thanks. The former is on line at <http://rec.horus.at/trek/fun/Weird.Planet.txt>

That's what I remembered.

scott
Don Bruder
2007-02-09 20:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Tom Holt
Post by Taki Kogoma
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
[ SNIP ]
Post by Tom Holt
IMHO, 'Final Reflection' is far & away the best Trek novel. Sharing
second place are a bunch of Duane/Duane & Morwood titles; 'The Romulan
Way', 'Doctor's Orders', 'My Enemy My Ally'. Diane Carey ('Best
Destiny') and Julia Ecklar ('The Kobayashi Maru') have written some of
the most enthralling action/adventure sequences I've ever read, in or
out of the genre. Barbara Hambly's 'Crossroad' is well worth a look;
likewise Carolyn Clowes' 'The Pandora Principle'. David George's 'The
34th Rule' is the pick of the post-Ordover novels, closely followed by
Andrew Robinson's 'A Stitch In Time'.
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
scott
That would have been "Visit to a Strange Planet, Revisited", in the
collection The New Voyages. The actors land on the real enterprise, and
it is surmised (but not really dealt with in the story) that the "real"
characters landed in front of the cameras.

I recall mention of (but don't remember ever seeing) a "Visit to a
Strange Planet" being mentioned as the inspiration for this piece, and
operating "in reverse" - We follow the real characters as they cope with
being beamed to the set.
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Joe Pfeiffer
2007-02-09 21:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
Galaxy Quest? :)
Sea Wasp
2007-02-09 23:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Tom Holt
Post by Taki Kogoma
Of the old TOS novels, _The Final Reflection_, _My Enemy, My Ally_ (by
Diane Duane), and _Uhura's Song_ (by Janet Kagan) generally vie for
top honors among long-time fen.
[ SNIP ]
Post by Tom Holt
IMHO, 'Final Reflection' is far & away the best Trek novel. Sharing
second place are a bunch of Duane/Duane & Morwood titles; 'The Romulan
Way', 'Doctor's Orders', 'My Enemy My Ally'. Diane Carey ('Best
Destiny') and Julia Ecklar ('The Kobayashi Maru') have written some of
the most enthralling action/adventure sequences I've ever read, in or
out of the genre. Barbara Hambly's 'Crossroad' is well worth a look;
likewise Carolyn Clowes' 'The Pandora Principle'. David George's 'The
34th Rule' is the pick of the post-Ordover novels, closely followed by
Andrew Robinson's 'A Stitch In Time'.
Which was the story where the real crew of the enterprise swapped
places with the actors on the set?
scott
Visit to a Strange Planet, I believe, with the sequel Visit to a
Strange Planet Revisited.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Sea Wasp
2007-01-31 04:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by htn963
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a depiction of
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
This is one of if not the best Trek novel I ever read, certainly.
Excellent work. There have been a very few other serious competitors,
but I would not argue against anyone saying The Final Reflection is
the best Trek novel ever written, and as good as just about any other
SF written at the time as well.
Post by htn963
Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.
Not possible. Blish wrote exactly one Trek novel, Spock Must Die!. He
did, however, do all the original Trek adaptations, but none of those
were novels.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2007-01-31 17:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Damien Sullivan
Post by htn963
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a
depiction of
Post by htn963
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
This is one of if not the best Trek novel I ever read, certainly.
Excellent work. There have been a very few other serious competitors,
but I would not argue against anyone saying The Final Reflection is
the best Trek novel ever written, and as good as just about any other
SF written at the time as well.
Post by htn963
Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.
Not possible. Blish wrote exactly one Trek novel, Spock Must Die!. He
did, however, do all the original Trek adaptations, but none of those
were novels.
--
Sea Wasp
Not all of them. As I recall, his wife helped on some of the later ones,
and maybe took over the task of finishing them after his demise.

And Alan Dean Foster did the animated adventures, apparently stumbling on
the revelation about halfway through the episodes that as long as he
included the events of the script, it was an adapation, and that if he
added enough new plot to make it into a novel, well, they should have written
the contracts differently (that's speculation on my part, but it always
seemed that way to me..)


Ted
Sea Wasp
2007-01-31 18:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Damien Sullivan
Post by htn963
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a
depiction of
Post by htn963
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
This is one of if not the best Trek novel I ever read, certainly.
Excellent work. There have been a very few other serious competitors,
but I would not argue against anyone saying The Final Reflection is
the best Trek novel ever written, and as good as just about any other
SF written at the time as well.
Post by htn963
Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.
Not possible. Blish wrote exactly one Trek novel, Spock Must Die!. He
did, however, do all the original Trek adaptations, but none of those
were novels.
--
Sea Wasp
Not all of them. As I recall, his wife helped on some of the later ones,
and maybe took over the task of finishing them after his demise.
That I was never sure of.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
And Alan Dean Foster did the animated adventures,
Yes, I know. Which is why I specified "original Trek" for Blish.

apparently stumbling on
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
the revelation about halfway through the episodes that as long as he
included the events of the script, it was an adapation, and that if he
added enough new plot to make it into a novel, well, they should have written
the contracts differently (that's speculation on my part, but it always
seemed that way to me..)
I had heard it the other way around -- that is, that he was
originally just writing them as straight adaptations, then asked for
permission to expand the stories into more novel-length adventures
that just used the original animated half-hour as a springboard --
something the PTB, knowing that Foster was an efficient and
professional producer of fun SF -- were happy to authorize.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2007-01-31 18:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Damien Sullivan
Post by htn963
The other, _The Final Reflection_, is I think generally admired as a
depiction of
Post by htn963
an alien culture[1].
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
This is one of if not the best Trek novel I ever read, certainly.
Excellent work. There have been a very few other serious competitors,
but I would not argue against anyone saying The Final Reflection is
the best Trek novel ever written, and as good as just about any other
SF written at the time as well.
Post by htn963
Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.
Not possible. Blish wrote exactly one Trek novel, Spock Must Die!. He
did, however, do all the original Trek adaptations, but none of those
were novels.
--
Sea Wasp
Not all of them. As I recall, his wife helped on some of the later ones,
and maybe took over the task of finishing them after his demise.
That I was never sure of.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
And Alan Dean Foster did the animated adventures,
Yes, I know. Which is why I specified "original Trek" for Blish.
apparently stumbling on
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
the revelation about halfway through the episodes that as long as he
included the events of the script, it was an adapation, and that if he
added enough new plot to make it into a novel, well, they should have written
the contracts differently (that's speculation on my part, but it always
seemed that way to me..)
I had heard it the other way around -- that is, that he was
originally just writing them as straight adaptations, then asked for
permission to expand the stories into more novel-length adventures
that just used the original animated half-hour as a springboard --
something the PTB, knowing that Foster was an efficient and
professional producer of fun SF -- were happy to authorize.
That's what I was saying. Except I was speculating that it was a
way to write original Trek novels without Ballentine having the franchise
for original Trek novels.

Ted
The Mad Alchemist
2007-01-31 19:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by htn963
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
Funy- I never liked it much. Myabe I was too young when I read it.

Of course, it's been so long since I was a serious fan of Trek that I
couldn't really tell you what my favourites were. Yesterday's Son
(apart from the bit where McCoy is blathering in his sleep); The IDIC
Epidemic...

I do remember hating Corona, The Dwellers in the Crucible, and Spock
Must Die.
Post by htn963
Just asking for possible future reading slots, as the only Trek
novels I've read were several by James Blish in my teens.
I didn't like Blish's treatment of any of the Star Trek bits.
Sea Wasp
2007-01-31 22:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mad Alchemist
Post by htn963
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
Funy- I never liked it much. Myabe I was too young when I read it.
Of course, it's been so long since I was a serious fan of Trek that I
couldn't really tell you what my favourites were. Yesterday's Son
(apart from the bit where McCoy is blathering in his sleep); The IDIC
Epidemic...
I do remember hating Corona, The Dwellers in the Crucible, and Spock
Must Die.
I loved Corona for the ideas -- basically the same reason I liked the
most-reviled ST novels of all time (the Phoenix books by Marshak and
Culbreath).

If you're looking for BAD ST books, you can't go wrong (right?) with
"Spock, Messiah!"
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Damien Sullivan
2007-01-31 22:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp
I loved Corona for the ideas -- basically the same reason I liked the
most-reviled ST novels of all time (the Phoenix books by Marshak and
Culbreath).
Yeah, though Corona really did suck as a novel when I re-read it a few
years ago.

The Phoenix books definitely had cool use of transporters and
explorations of identity.

-xx- Damien X-)
Howard
2007-02-01 03:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Damien Sullivan
The Phoenix books definitely had cool use of transporters and
explorations of identity.
-xx- Damien X-)
I think the Phoenix books are a guilty pleasure of mine, though I'm
afraid to read them again for fear of realizing how bad they are.
Sea Wasp
2007-02-01 05:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Post by Damien Sullivan
The Phoenix books definitely had cool use of transporters and
explorations of identity.
-xx- Damien X-)
I think the Phoenix books are a guilty pleasure of mine, though I'm
afraid to read them again for fear of realizing how bad they are.
I have no guilt about almost anything I read. If something's THAT
bad, I think the guilt belongs on the creator's shoulders, not mine.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
David Mitchell
2007-02-01 09:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mad Alchemist
Post by htn963
This is generally considered the best Trek novel ever among the
trekkies, yes? ISTR some people here claiming that if ever one media-
tie-in novel is Hugo-worthy, it should be this one.
Funy- I never liked it much. Myabe I was too young when I read it.
Of course, it's been so long since I was a serious fan of Trek that I
couldn't really tell you what my favourites were. Yesterday's Son
(apart from the bit where McCoy is blathering in his sleep); The IDIC
Epidemic...
I do remember hating Corona,
Boo! That's one of my favourites. I liked the way that Bear tried to add
a patina of realism (by giving the crew computer implants to explain their
omni-competence, and by explaining the impossibility of the
level of storage required by the transporter as being due to "quantum
trickery" - not a great explanation, but at least he tried :-).
--
=======================================================================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
=======================================================================
g***@sentex.net
2007-01-31 05:30:41 UTC
Permalink
John Ford wrote two Star Trek novels that I know of....
Silly me, I read the header as referring to the _other_ John Ford, and tried to
imagine Star Trek set in Monument Valley and starring John Wayne.
Carl Dershem
2007-01-31 05:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@sentex.net
John Ford wrote two Star Trek novels that I know of....
Silly me, I read the header as referring to the _other_ John Ford, and
tried to imagine Star Trek set in Monument Valley and starring John
Wayne.
The resemblance stopped with the name. The writer had a much more
developed sense of humor and irony.

cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
Sean O'Hara
2007-01-31 22:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@sentex.net
John Ford wrote two Star Trek novels that I know of....
Silly me, I read the header as referring to the _other_ John
Ford, and tried to imagine Star Trek set in Monument Valley and
starring John Wayne.
Funny, I thought the title was referring to the /other/ other John
Ford and tried to imagine Star Trek as a Jacobean drama. 'Tis Pity
She's an Orion Slave Girl.
--
Sean O'Hara | http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his
government.
-Edward Abbey
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