Discussion:
Foundation [and sequels, presumably] TV series
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Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-13 19:21:05 UTC
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I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13

So I'll summarize.

The status is "filming." Cassian Bilton, Laura Birn, Jared Harris,
and Leah Harvey have been cast. I don't know any of these actors,
but there's a picture of Jared Harris, who is somewhere in his
fifties or maybe sixties: grey hair, grey beard, looks healthy.
Maybe he's playing Seldon?

If they do a decent job with it, it could go on for years,
particularly since Asimov spent his later years retconning right
and left to link *all* his works together.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-13 19:45:39 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
A couple of thoughts on the article:
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
2. If the series is going to cover "thousands of years", it's
going to be covering a lot more than what Asimov wrote about
the Foundation.
--
Michael F. Stemper
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him talk like Mr. Ed
by rubbing peanut butter on his gums.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-13 21:16:22 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Well, you can't ask Gene Roddenberry, but you could ask George
Lucas if you could get hold of him. That said, whole generations
of SF writers, not to mention scientists, have been influenced by
the writers of Asimov's generation.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
2. If the series is going to cover "thousands of years", it's
going to be covering a lot more than what Asimov wrote about
the Foundation.
Oh, yes, it could go to the robot stories and all the other
stories that got linked to the Foundation line.

(I'd like to see Judi Dench playing Susan Calvin.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
James Nicoll
2021-05-13 22:27:39 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
As far as Star Wars goes, Trantor is a lot like Corsuscant.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-14 13:08:47 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
As far as Star Wars goes, Trantor is a lot like Corsuscant.
That's true, but it's kind of a stretch from "similar place in
fourth (in release order)" to "inspired first episode" or
"inspired entire series".
--
Michael F. Stemper
Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding;
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-05-14 13:26:38 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
As far as Star Wars goes, Trantor is a lot like Corsuscant.
That's true, but it's kind of a stretch from "similar place in
fourth (in release order)" to "inspired first episode" or
"inspired entire series".
Kind of depends on what "inspired" means. It could easily mean
"reading Foundation inspired my love of SF"
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Christian Weisgerber
2021-05-13 21:56:51 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Part of the marketing, I guess. _Star Wars_ and _Star Trek_ have
an audience, so they're trying to spark interest there.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-14 00:59:07 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Part of the marketing, I guess. _Star Wars_ and _Star Trek_ have
an audience, so they're trying to spark interest there.
<https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/26887/was-there-any-influence-of-foundation-series-by-asimov-on-star-wars>
offers quotes that Dr Asimov himself thought that
"rather more than a whiff" of _Foundation_ was in
_Star Wars_, while acknowledging his own debt to
Edward Gibbon's account of the Roman Empire.
Another answer notes space smugglers, princesses
(more or less), and proposes that the Jedi are in
the role of the Second Foundation... which is a
stretch, I think.

<https://www.openculture.com/2015/12/how-isaac-asimov-went-from-star-trek-critic-to-star-trek-fan-advisor.html>
asserts that Dr Asimov criticised early episodes
of _Star Trek_ but became a keen viewer and
valued correspondent with Gene Roddenberry,
even on "how to give Captain Kirk lines as good
as the ones that naturally go to a more unusual
character like Spock", according to another web
link that doesn't work, though I would like to read
that. Perhaps it's about science fiction meaning
that a lot of the plot explanation comes from the
Science Officer, but Captain Kirk gets to ask
perceptive intelligent questions.

...but the Foundation doesn't seem to be mentioned.

<https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/sci/isaac-asimov-gene-roddenberry-talk-star-trek-future-science-fiction.html>
has the same broken link, but some more quoted material.
Fighting his corner, Gene Roddenberry hopes that
_Star Trek_ viewers may pick up the _Foundation_
series, but does not indicate that he has.

I suppose that a number of planets visited in _Star Trek_
contain societies that have decayed in interesting ways.
"That Which Survives" refers to a star empire devastated
by plague, which occurred in Roman history but again,
I don't recall it in _Foundation_. "The Apple" and
"Return of the Archons" have machinery that is not
understood by the people it served to be mechanical:
I think that at one point, Foundation science is treated
as secret knowledge, being the basis of political influence,
e.g. atomic power systems which may as well be magic.
Several plots end with a promise from the Federation
to steer the broken planet of the week (if Prime Directive
doesn't apply) onto a better track, which sounds like
practising psychohistory. The novel _Prime Directive_
says more about how to study a culture,
<https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Seldon_Institute_of_Psychohistory>
apparently was brought in in novel _Spectre_ to study
the political evolution of the Mirror Universe (I think Kirk
and anti-Spock already agreed on screen that the Empire
would not last long, and it didn't), and
<https://them0vieblog.com/2014/12/18/star-trek-mirror-universe-the-sorrows-of-empire-by-david-mack-review/>
(sic; legitimate, I hope?) refers to the genius team
visiting Deep Space Nine who concluded that the
Federation would be defeated by the Dominion,
with a proposition (which I don't remember) to
surrender but then prepare to rebuild a Federation
galaxy when it was the Dominion's turn to
self-destruct, juvpu vf gur cybg bs "gnq bs havba"
bs pbhefr.
Joseph Nebus
2021-05-17 04:49:06 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Several plots end with a promise from the Federation
to steer the broken planet of the week (if Prime Directive
doesn't apply) onto a better track, which sounds like
practising psychohistory. The novel _Prime Directive_
says more about how to study a culture,
<https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Seldon_Institute_of_Psychohistory>
apparently was brought in in novel _Spectre_ to study
the political evolution of the Mirror Universe (I think Kirk
and anti-Spock already agreed on screen that the Empire
would not last long, and it didn't), [ ... ]
More; in _Mirror, Mirror_, the Halkans make a prediction that
there'll be universal revolt and overthrow of the Empire, which
Mirror Spock forecasts as being in about 240 years, with an inevitable
outcome of the Empire's overthrow. That's a heck of a forecast if the
Halkans *and* Mirror Spock don't have psychohistorical techniques.

But then the weirdness is that these forecasts are made not
just in the Mirror Universe but also off-screen, possibly because Kirk
was working off an earlier draft of the script and didn't know this
predictation was cut.


So, fun observation from that episode: there's a bit where you
see the Mirror Halkan chancellor, and he's got black eyes. Which made
me start to joke, oh, so the Empire is just sending Evil Kirk around to
planets with problems and punch their leaders until they stop being
problems anymore? ... And then I realized, oh, that's pretty much what
the Federation does with Good Kirk anyway.
--
Joseph Nebus
Math Blog: https://nebusresearch.wordpress.com
Humor Blog: https://nebushumor.wordpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-14 16:58:19 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated
TV series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-s
eries-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz
#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
In the braod sense, Foundation is one of the classic examples of
space opera, which Star Wars certainly is.

Trek is a pretty big stretch, though.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
David Johnston
2021-05-15 01:03:21 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series.  Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
It did indeed go to the page on _Foundation_.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Foundation starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
Coruscant is Trantor's twin.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
2. If the series is going to cover "thousands of years", it's
going to be covering a lot more than what Asimov wrote about
the Foundation.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-15 20:45:40 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star
Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?

Evidence that, at the beginning of _Star Wars_, the Empire is crumbling:




Evidence that Palpatine's Empire resembles the Roman Empire:
--
Michael F. Stemper
Isaiah 10:1-2
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-15 22:01:12 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star
Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
I think David meant to say that _Star Wars_ portrays a
crumbled Republic overtaken by a ruling Emperor.
That's Roman, all right. In the prequels, we see the
Republic falling, engineered by the Sith: that looks
like psychohistorical plotting. And the Emperor
gets to be top psycho.
David Johnston
2021-05-16 20:22:55 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.

LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
It has an emperor using a enfeebled senate to help boost his legitimacy,
and it's a successor state to a republic that used to be headed by that
senate.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-17 13:22:29 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
Post by David Johnston
It has an emperor using a enfeebled senate to help boost his legitimacy,
and it's a successor state to a republic that used to be headed by that
senate.
I'll give you that one.

However, that isn't something that was shown in any of Asimov's
Foundation stories, so unlikely to have been inspired by them. In
fact, as far back as _Pebble in the Sky_, there was an Emperor.
That's over 11,000 years.

It's possible that they had a common source, but a little digging shows
me that Gibbon's work began in 92 AD, which was well past 44 BC, when
Julius Caesar became perpetual dictator. He is the Palpatine analog
(assuming that there is one).

Something that occurred to me over the weekend: the underlying theme
of the Foundation works is that the actions of individuals don't
matter; it's the (psycho-)historical forces that move events.

_Star Wars_ completely inverts this. It's basically the efforts of
a single person, Luke, that lead to the overthrow of the Empire and
the soi-disant restoration of the Republic.

I'm mindful of the last chapter of "The General", in which Ducem Barr
says:
"You were wrong, however, in thinking that this internal split
was something to be brought about by individual acts, by
inspirations of the moment. [...]"
"And through all this threshing up of tiny ripples, the Seldon
tidal wave continued onward, quietly--but quite irresistibly."

Compare this to the end of _The Return of the Jedi_. The Empire has
set up an ambush, with overwhelming odds, of the Republic's fleet.
The Emperor's reason for this isn't even to wipe out the fleet; it's
to cause so much anger in Luke that he is turned to the Dark Side.
The only reason it fails is that Vader, in a moment that echoes the
eucatastrophe in Mount Doom, rebels against the Emperor.

Everything here hinges on individual acts.
--
Michael F. Stemper
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him talk like Mr. Ed
by rubbing peanut butter on his gums.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-05-17 13:38:09 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
Loading Image...
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-17 13:57:21 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/05/scam.jpg
Heh.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Exodus 22:21
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 22:15:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/05/scam.jpg
That is hilarious.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 22:37:28 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/05/scam.jpg
What happened to all of the independent contractors working on Death
Star II ?


Lynn
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-29 18:04:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
    http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/05/scam.jpg
What happened to all of the independent contractors working on Death
Star II ?
   http://youtu.be/bb8MVKihBDU
I could tell that was old because the cigarette prices were $1.50-$2.00.
(When I quite, they were pushing $10.00)
--
Michael F. Stemper
The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at
<http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm>
Please read it before posting.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-29 18:17:17 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
(When I quite, they were pushing $10.00)
Quit! Quit, damnit! Bad fingers!

(No, not the band)
--
Michael F. Stemper
I feel more like I do now than I did when I came in.
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-18 01:16:05 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/05/scam.jpg
The Death Star conspiracy – was it an Inside Job?


Lynn
James Nicoll
2021-05-17 14:01:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds. The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Paul S Person
2021-05-17 17:06:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds. The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
IIRC, the reason O'Brien was stuck using costumed lizards as dinosaurs
in his second go at /The Lost World/ was because DeMille's /Cleopatra/
was hoovering up all available funds, and was expected to make a lot
more money for the studio.

So not just gummints. Movie studios can fall for that one as well.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
James Nicoll
2021-05-17 18:15:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds. The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
IIRC, the reason O'Brien was stuck using costumed lizards as dinosaurs
in his second go at /The Lost World/ was because DeMille's /Cleopatra/
was hoovering up all available funds, and was expected to make a lot
more money for the studio.
So not just gummints. Movie studios can fall for that one as well.
See also Heaven's Gate, which was very good at hoovering up funds and
not so good at producing profits. FINAL CUT provides the perspective
of one of the execs involved in the fiasco.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
James Nicoll
2021-05-17 18:16:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Paul S Person
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds. The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
IIRC, the reason O'Brien was stuck using costumed lizards as dinosaurs
in his second go at /The Lost World/ was because DeMille's /Cleopatra/
was hoovering up all available funds, and was expected to make a lot
more money for the studio.
So not just gummints. Movie studios can fall for that one as well.
See also Heaven's Gate, which was very good at hoovering up funds and
not so good at producing profits. FINAL CUT provides the perspective
of one of the execs involved in the fiasco.
On the other hand, part of Damnation Alley's problems were due to
about a quarter of the production budget being reallocated to something
called Star Wars, which in retrospect was probably the right call.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
J. Clarke
2021-05-18 02:24:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Paul S Person
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds. The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
IIRC, the reason O'Brien was stuck using costumed lizards as dinosaurs
in his second go at /The Lost World/ was because DeMille's /Cleopatra/
was hoovering up all available funds, and was expected to make a lot
more money for the studio.
So not just gummints. Movie studios can fall for that one as well.
See also Heaven's Gate, which was very good at hoovering up funds and
not so good at producing profits. FINAL CUT provides the perspective
of one of the execs involved in the fiasco.
On the other hand, part of Damnation Alley's problems were due to
about a quarter of the production budget being reallocated to something
called Star Wars, which in retrospect was probably the right call.
If they had stuck closer to the story they wouldn't have needed nearly
as much in the way of effects. But that would have required that they
use the word "Hell" repeatedly so that was right out.
Moriarty
2021-05-18 04:41:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
On the other hand, part of Damnation Alley's problems were due to
about a quarter of the production budget being reallocated to something
called Star Wars, which in retrospect was probably the right call.
If they had stuck closer to the story they wouldn't have needed nearly
as much in the way of effects. But that would have required that they
use the word "Hell" repeatedly so that was right out.
Gawd, I'd almost forgotten that movie. "Tanner! This entire city is infested with killer cockroaches. I repeat: KILLER COCKROACHES!"

Even as a kid, I knew that was baaaaaaad.

-Moriarty
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-17 19:50:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second.
That sounds quite likely to be true.
Post by James Nicoll
The Death
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
I'll grant that, but the possibility that the Death Star was a poor
idea is no indicator that the Empire was weak.
--
Michael F. Stemper
If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much
more like prunes than rhubarb does.
Steve Coltrin
2021-05-17 20:08:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
begin fnord
Post by Michael F. Stemper
I'll grant that, but the possibility that the Death Star was a poor
idea is no indicator that the Empire was weak.
Not to mention, Palpatine probably has an entirely different set of
goals than Augustus, or Brother Day, or Strephon Aella Alkhalikoi.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
William Hyde
2021-05-17 22:14:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
So Freeman Dyson had an observation about government projects, which
was (iirc) that if a government was offered a choice between a series
of small scale efforts with a high likelihood of producing modest gains
or one huge project that had good chance of not working but would be
high status if it did, they will generally choose the second. See,
for example, how the Webb telescope hoovered up funds.
NASA seemed to back off of that method, for a while, in the "better cheaper faster" era. Even so, the
cheap and hugely successful Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission took a long time to be launched, and even then it was launched by the Japanese (which meant a slightly less favourable orbit as the Japanese insisted that it overfly their territory at some point).

The Death
Post by James Nicoll
Star has all the ear-marks of a grandeous scheme whose net effect
may have been the Imperial Navy has a lot fewer Star Destroyers
and fighters than it might have had.
Clarke quotes someone to the effect that each V2 used up the resources that could make three or more fighters. He speculates that this may have hastened the end of the war in Europe, and spared Stuttgart an atomic bombing.

William Hyde
David Johnston
2021-05-17 16:07:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
  Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems
will slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
Except that staking all their chips on that bet and losing the bet only
increased the process she described.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
It has an emperor using a enfeebled senate to help boost his
legitimacy, and it's a successor state to a republic that used to be
headed by that senate.
I'll give you that one.
However, that isn't something that was shown in any of Asimov's
Foundation stories, so unlikely to have been inspired by them.
Probably wasn't. Was inspired by Dune which also had Romanesque
Galactic Empire. It's only the introduction of Coruscant that brings the
Foundation into play.
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-18 09:40:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
I grant that her statement is probably not intended
as helpful advice to the Empire, and not taken as
such, but it may be argued that a plan to maintain
your ownership of the planets of the galaxy by
blowing some of them up will not look good on the
balance sheet.
Paul S Person
2021-05-18 16:47:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 18 May 2021 02:40:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The construction of
Death Star shows that the Empire was increasing its strength.
I grant that her statement is probably not intended
as helpful advice to the Empire, and not taken as
such, but it may be argued that a plan to maintain
your ownership of the planets of the galaxy by
blowing some of them up will not look good on the
balance sheet.
A vivid illustration of the ultimate failure of a policy of "law and
order".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-18 16:52:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 18 May 2021 02:40:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
On Monday, 17 May 2021 at 14:22:41 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipat
ed-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsign
out&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that
_Foundation_ inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you
to be my guest at a ceremony that will make this battle
station operational. No star system will dare oppose the
Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star
systems will slip through your fingers.
Oh c'mon. Her brave defiance is nothing but that. The
construction of Death Star shows that the Empire was
increasing its strength.
I grant that her statement is probably not intended
as helpful advice to the Empire, and not taken as
such, but it may be argued that a plan to maintain
your ownership of the planets of the galaxy by
blowing some of them up will not look good on the
balance sheet.
A vivid illustration of the ultimate failure of a policy of "law
and order".
That would be "lawful evil" rather than "lawful good" or "lawful
neutral."

All governments act for the public good. The trick is who gets to
decide what is best for the public.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
William Hyde
2021-05-17 22:06:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by David Johnston
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
1. I have no idea how somebody could claim that _Foundation_
inspired _Star Wars_ or _Star Trek_.
Star Wars starts with a crumbling Galactic Empire modeled on Rome.
News to me. What evidence is there for either of these?
TARKIN Princess Leia, before your execution I would like you to be my
guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No
star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
LEIA The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will
slip through your fingers.
That is very much like Foundation, not like Rome. While the empire was from time to time divided by succession disputes, bits of it didn't escape, but were cut off by foreign invasion.
Post by David Johnston
It has an emperor using a enfeebled senate to help boost his legitimacy,
and it's a successor state to a republic that used to be headed by that
senate.
Very much like Rome indeed.

William Hyde
Scott Lurndal
2021-05-13 19:56:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Highly anticipated by who, exactly? A third redo of the Equalizer?
Jeffrey Dahmer story? Young Rock?

On the other hand, _Sandman_ will probably be worth watching.

And Star Trek: Prodigy sounds fun if done right - ticks a lot of YA boxes.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_%28TV_series%29

They did leave out _The Wheel of Time_ which was supposed to premier this
year, but may have been delayed due to the pandemic.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-13 20:48:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Highly anticipated by who, exactly? A third redo of the Equalizer?
Jeffrey Dahmer story? Young Rock?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_%28TV_series%29
Thanks for posting that. The "Casting" section shows a few things:
1. They're starting back in prequel territory, since they've cast
somebody in the role of Eto Demerzel.
2. They're making shit up, as shown by the casting of "Brother Dawn",
"Brother Day", and "Brother Dusk" as members of the ruling family.
3. They're changing the character of "Salvor" to "protective and
intuitive", presumably because "Salvor" will be played by a woman.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against casting a woman in this
role, it's changing the character (presumably because of who's playing
it) to which I object.
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-13 21:17:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't know whether this link will go to just the page on
_Foundation_ or to the whole article on 50 highly anticipated TV
series. Or whether it'll go anywhere at all.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/50-highly-anticipated-tv-series-coming-out-in-2021/ss-BB1ct4rg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz#image=13
Post by Scott Lurndal
Highly anticipated by who, exactly? A third redo of the Equalizer?
Jeffrey Dahmer story? Young Rock?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_%28TV_series%29
1. They're starting back in prequel territory, since they've cast
somebody in the role of Eto Demerzel.
2. They're making shit up, as shown by the casting of "Brother Dawn",
"Brother Day", and "Brother Dusk" as members of the ruling family.
3. They're changing the character of "Salvor" to "protective and
intuitive", presumably because "Salvor" will be played by a woman.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against casting a woman in this
role, it's changing the character (presumably because of who's playing
it) to which I object.
OK, who's playing her?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Steve Coltrin
2021-05-13 20:51:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
begin fnord
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The status is "filming." Cassian Bilton, Laura Birn, Jared Harris,
and Leah Harvey have been cast. I don't know any of these actors,
but there's a picture of Jared Harris, who is somewhere in his
fifties or maybe sixties: grey hair, grey beard, looks healthy.
Maybe he's playing Seldon?
He is. I'm quite fond of Harris, recently of _The Queen_ (you might
like) and _Chernobyl_ (*extremely* disturbing but very good disaster
porn, which probably means you wouldn't).
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Christian Weisgerber
2021-05-13 21:43:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The status is "filming." Cassian Bilton, Laura Birn, Jared Harris,
and Leah Harvey have been cast. I don't know any of these actors,
but there's a picture of Jared Harris, who is somewhere in his
fifties or maybe sixties: grey hair, grey beard, looks healthy.
Maybe he's playing Seldon?
He is.

Harris has done outstanding work in recent years in _The Expanse_,
as a Belter terrorist/revolutionary, and in the harrowing _Chernobyl_
miniseries, as a scientist who has to convince the Soviet leadership
that they have a PROBLEM on their hands. ("And it will not stop.
Not in a week, not in a month. It will burn and spread its poison
until the entire continent is dead.")

I don't really remember anything about _Foundation_ other than that
it clearly was an attempt to apply thermodynamics to human behavior,
which I thought was a nifty idea, but one I also didn't buy for a
moment.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Jack Bohn
2021-05-14 15:08:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
If they do a decent job with it, it could go on for years,
particularly since Asimov spent his later years retconning right
and left to link *all* his works together.
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too cerebral for its timeslot."

On a second worry, they are all Asimov's works, but are the adaptation rights all available to one entity?

Everyone has heard the case of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, siblings who, though they'd been acolytes in Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, and fought the X-Men (movie rights owned by FOX studios), became stalwart Avengers (movie rights owned by Marvel Studios/Disney). Like the summer of two Bonds, we got the summer of two Quicksilvers. (A editor tells of a time when Marvel was owned by corporate overlords not versed in the entertainment industry; Spider-Man's two magazines: The Amazing Spider-Man, and The Spectacular Spider-Man, were each sold to a different movie studio.)

Star Trek was seen not to be one thing when the model kits for Voyager came from Revell, whereas all previous kits had come from AMT. Previously, AMT had probably had to license TNG and DS9 separately, and likely each movie, although for that they had the competitive advantage that they already had the tooling to produce an Enterprise kit, and just would need to change the box art to incorporate a new title. William Rostler wrote the book _Star Trek II Biographies_, and says all parties were informed that it only had the rights to draw from the movie Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which all parties ignored.

Come to think of it Asimov adaptations already have an experience of trying to make a whole from some of the parts. He had sold the movie rights to the robot story "Evidence" to Orson Welles. I don't know if its plot of a candidate for office being accused of being a robot replacement for the real man would fit as part of an "I, Robot" movie, but the idea that its hard to tell a robot obeying The Three Laws from a very moral man seems to be the clearest statement of the themes in Harlan Ellison's script.
--
-Jack
Christian Weisgerber
2021-05-14 17:18:49 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-14 17:46:34 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jack Bohn
2021-05-14 18:27:08 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
I take it (and forgive me if I'm wrong) as merely citing the specifics in correcting me.
I may be being corrected in the literal sense of it being on-demand and not in any specific time slot,
or in the broader sense of it not being a broadcast, but more narrowcast, and aimed at a common denominator that doesn't have to be the lowest.
I don't know as any streaming service can be said to be different in quality, but Apple TV is currently home to "For All Mankind" an alt-hist in which the Russians reach the Moon first, by the historical difference that they reached the Moon first. (I was going to blame the proverbial alien space bats deciding it so, but didn't want to be mistakenly taken literally.)

For "Foundation," I am fearing a translation of the broad predictability of the trends of a large population will be translated to the iron control of Fate, and a personal Destiny each character will fulfill.
--
-Jack
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-14 23:15:40 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
I take it (and forgive me if I'm wrong) as merely citing the specifics in correcting me.
I may be being corrected in the literal sense of it being on-demand and not in any specific time slot,
or in the broader sense of it not being a broadcast, but more narrowcast, and aimed at a common denominator that doesn't have to be the lowest.
I don't know as any streaming service can be said to be different in quality, but Apple TV is currently home to "For All Mankind" an alt-hist in which the Russians reach the Moon first, by the historical difference that they reached the Moon first. (I was going to blame the proverbial alien space bats deciding it so, but didn't want to be mistakenly taken literally.)
For "Foundation," I am fearing a translation of the broad predictability of the trends of a large population will be translated to the iron control of Fate, and a personal Destiny each character will fulfill.
It was random, up to a point, whether any rocket model
on either side blew up or caught fire or did what it was
meant to. Apollo 1 killed everyone on board during
a rehearsal.

I think I saw a TV documentary which claimed, as this
article doesn't seem to, that if its subject had lived longer,
the Moon might have received the Red Flag first.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev>

Is he in the show?

P.S. The Fantastic Four shadowed Apollo 11, I forget
why and whether they had visited the moon already...
ah yes.
<https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_13>
<https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_98>

Without finding a copy besides this synopsis of #98
to read, I wonder if "an island made to resemble the
moon's surface" is a late story change from the FF
actually visiting the moon - again - before Apollo 11 did,
which would be rude. Since broadly, they put the words
on last. It sure looks like the moon on the cover. ;--)
J. Clarke
2021-05-15 10:33:00 UTC
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On Fri, 14 May 2021 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
I take it (and forgive me if I'm wrong) as merely citing the specifics in correcting me.
I may be being corrected in the literal sense of it being on-demand and not in any specific time slot,
or in the broader sense of it not being a broadcast, but more narrowcast, and aimed at a common denominator that doesn't have to be the lowest.
I don't know as any streaming service can be said to be different in quality, but Apple TV is currently home to "For All Mankind" an alt-hist in which the Russians reach the Moon first, by the historical difference that they reached the Moon first. (I was going to blame the proverbial alien space bats deciding it so, but didn't want to be mistakenly taken literally.)
For "Foundation," I am fearing a translation of the broad predictability of the trends of a large population will be translated to the iron control of Fate, and a personal Destiny each character will fulfill.
Started watching "For All Mankind". So far it seems way too caught up
in political trendiness. Two episodes in there's the ritual
demonization of von Braun and the start of some subplot involving
wetbacks (yes, they are definitely wetbacks--we see them cross the
river).
Joseph Nebus
2021-05-17 04:42:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I don't know as any streaming service can be said to be different in qualit=
y, but Apple TV is currently home to "For All Mankind" an alt-hist in which=
the Russians reach the Moon first, by the historical difference that they =
reached the Moon first. (I was going to blame the proverbial alien space b=
ats deciding it so, but didn't want to be mistakenly taken literally.)
I lack Apple TV, so have never seen the series. I do remember
reading one of Dwayne Day's reviews of the series at The Space Review
(thespacereview.com) that at least one of the differences in that
timeline is that Sergei Korolev survived until at least 1969. This is
not by itself a sufficient explanation, but it is a starting point for
a plausible timeline.
--
Joseph Nebus
Math Blog: https://nebusresearch.wordpress.com
Humor Blog: https://nebushumor.wordpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
J. Clarke
2021-05-17 10:52:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joseph Nebus
I don't know as any streaming service can be said to be different in qualit=
y, but Apple TV is currently home to "For All Mankind" an alt-hist in which=
the Russians reach the Moon first, by the historical difference that they =
reached the Moon first. (I was going to blame the proverbial alien space b=
ats deciding it so, but didn't want to be mistakenly taken literally.)
I lack Apple TV, so have never seen the series. I do remember
reading one of Dwayne Day's reviews of the series at The Space Review
(thespacereview.com) that at least one of the differences in that
timeline is that Sergei Korolev survived until at least 1969. This is
not by itself a sufficient explanation, but it is a starting point for
a plausible timeline.
You can watch it in a web browser. There's a 7 day free trial which
is long enough to binge the series. After that it's $4.95 a month.

The big difference was that the Russians got N-1 to work and got there
first, and then pulled a replay of their orbital flights with the
second having a woman on the Moon. They work in other details--Ted
Kennedy had to got to a meeting related to the space program one
weekend so didn't go to a party in Chappaquiddick so didn't flush his
career for example.

I still don't like they way they handled von Braun but the wetback
kid's growing on me.
Steve Coltrin
2021-05-14 19:16:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
begin fnord
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Christian Weisgerber
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
Apple TV+ is the fruit-themed computing firm's streaming service. Their
main genre offering so far is _For All Mankind_, an alternate history in
which the Commies get to the moon a few days before Neil and Buzz. I
like it a lot.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Dimensional Traveler
2021-05-14 19:19:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
Apple TV is a streaming service, so no "timeslot".
--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-14 21:05:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
Apple TV is a streaming service, so no "timeslot".
Okay, but no one has yet offered an opinion as to whether its
product will be good, indifferent, or absolutely godawful.

Perhaps you're all reserving judgment till you see it, than which
there could be worse plans.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2021-05-14 22:09:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
Apple TV is a streaming service, so no "timeslot".
Okay, but no one has yet offered an opinion as to whether its
product will be good, indifferent, or absolutely godawful.
Perhaps you're all reserving judgment till you see it, than which
there could be worse plans.
The quality of the program has no correlation with how long it is
produced. ;)
--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.
Christian Weisgerber
2021-05-14 19:44:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
I fear that if they do a decent job with it, it may be deemed "too
cerebral for its timeslot."
It's going to be on Apple TV+.
Care to elaborate on that? Does Apple TV mean it might be good,
or that it's doomed to be dreadful?
It means that the concept of "timeslot" does not apply.

_For All Mankind_ (alternate history of an American space program
after the Soviet Union put the first man on the moon) is very good.

_See_ (a post-apocalyptic future where most people are blind) is
well done but ludicrous, and at the end of the first season I was
on the side of the villain.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
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