Discussion:
Near Miss Last Week of...Undetected Asteroid 3 x Size of Tunguska
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Jonathan
2021-09-23 21:36:12 UTC
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From the 'Live for Today' Dept.


Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.

It wasn't detected until it had already passed
since it was coming from the direction of the sun
so it could only be seen during daylight
hours which is pretty much impossible.

It's called a 'glaring hole' in our ability
to detect impacts in time.



Asteroid 2021 SG Came From The Sun’s Direction

An analysis of its orbit indicates that asteroid 2021 SG was
closest to Earth on September 16 at 20:28 UTC (4:28 p.m. ET).

Asteroid 2021 SG has an estimated diameter of between 42 – 94 meters
(138-308 feet). Its average diameter is 68 meters (223 feet).
That’s in contrast to 17 meters for the Chelyabinsk meteor before
it entered Earth’s atmosphere.

It came from the direction of the sun. Those words might sound
chilling to you. And they do, too – perhaps more so – to scientists
who work to detect near-Earth asteroids, in an effort to keep our
planet safe. The Chelyabinsk meteor that did so much damage and
caused so much consternation in 2013 also came, unexpectedly,
from the sun’s direction.

If it entered our atmosphere, an asteroid as big as 2021 SG
would produce a huge, very impressive meteor. Asteroid 2021 SG
isn’t just big. It’s also a fast-moving asteroid, traveling
through space at the amazing speed of 53,281 miles per hour
(85,748 km/h or 23.8 km per second), relative to Earth.
At closest approach on September 16, 2021, asteroid 2021 SG
came closest to Canada and Greenland.

https://earthsky.org/space/asteroid-2021-sg-closest-to-earth-sep21-2021/
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-23 22:50:20 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
From the 'Live for Today' Dept.
Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.
Please do at least a minimum level of fact checking.
Tunguska was 50-60 meters, 27 times larger than
you say.

It was Chelyabinsk that was about 20 meters.

2021 SG is 42-94, so you're cherry-picking.

Pt
Jonathan
2021-09-24 07:51:23 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Jonathan
From the 'Live for Today' Dept.
Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.
Please do at least a minimum level of fact checking.
Tunguska was 50-60 meters, 27 times larger than
you say.
It was Chelyabinsk that was about 20 meters.
2021 SG is 42-94, so you're cherry-picking.
Pt
Thanks for the correction.

You're right, click this link, it kinda substituted
one for the other in the short clip. My bad for not
reading further.

Tunguska Event - Wiki
https://rb.gy/dax10j


The exploding meteoroid was determined to have been an asteroid
that measured about 17–20 metres (56–66 ft) across.
It had an estimated initial mass of 11,000 tonnes and
exploded with an energy release of approximately 500 kilotons.

Location: Podkamennaya Tunguska River, Sib...
Cause: Probable meteor air burst of small aste...
Date: 30 June 1908
Outcome: Flattening 2,150 km2 (830 sq mi) of f...

Tunguska event - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Tunguska_event
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Jonathan
2021-09-24 08:35:08 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Jonathan
From the 'Live for Today' Dept.
Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.
Please do at least a minimum level of fact checking.
Tunguska was 50-60 meters, 27 times larger than
you say.
27? I'm not the only one making mistakes this morning~
Post by ***@gmail.com
It was Chelyabinsk that was about 20 meters.
2021 SG is 42-94, so you're cherry-picking.
Pt
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-24 13:47:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Jonathan
From the 'Live for Today' Dept.
Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.
Please do at least a minimum level of fact checking.
Tunguska was 50-60 meters, 27 times larger than
you say.
27? I'm not the only one making mistakes this morning~
3x the diameter gives 27x (3^3) the mass, and 27x the destructive
power.

...or weren't you aware?

Pt
Jonathan
2021-09-24 14:34:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Jonathan
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Jonathan
From the 'Live for Today' Dept.
Tunguska was around 20 meters, this one was
as large as 94 meters and last week it passed by
inside the orbit of the Moon.
Please do at least a minimum level of fact checking.
Tunguska was 50-60 meters, 27 times larger than
you say.
27? I'm not the only one making mistakes this morning~
3x the diameter gives 27x (3^3) the mass, and 27x the destructive
power.
...or weren't you aware?
Pt
When you follow the word "meters" with "larger" in the
same sentence the proper interpretation is that you're
talking about size in meters.

Or aren't you aware of third grade grammar?


Right back atcha Mr nitpick.
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Wolffan
2021-09-24 01:13:02 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
It wasn't detected until it had already passed
since it was coming from the direction of the sun
so it could only be seen during daylight
hours which is pretty much impossible.
It's called a 'glaring hole' in our ability
to detect impacts in time.
It came from the direction of the sun. Those words might sound
chilling to you. And they do, too – perhaps more so – to scientists
who work to detect near-Earth asteroids, in an effort to keep our
planet safe.
I remember that there was a movie about World War II
fighter pilots with the title "12 O'Clock High".
It was bombers, and not just the pilots. Gregory Peck and the 918th (really
the 306th) Bomb Group, US 8th Army Air Force, set in 1942, made in 1949.
Later a tv series, same name.
So asteroids can, without deliberate intent, employ
a time-honored tactic used in aerial warfare.
you’re being sillier than usual.
This is not surprising, and it is a risk we will have to live with.
Eventually, perhaps we will have space telescopes deployed
at the L4 and L5 points of the Earth-Sun system to aid in
detecting incoming asteroids so as to minimize this issue.
John Savard
Jonathan
2021-09-24 08:15:07 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by Jonathan
It wasn't detected until it had already passed
since it was coming from the direction of the sun
so it could only be seen during daylight
hours which is pretty much impossible.
It's called a 'glaring hole' in our ability
to detect impacts in time.
It came from the direction of the sun. Those words might sound
chilling to you. And they do, too – perhaps more so – to scientists
who work to detect near-Earth asteroids, in an effort to keep our
planet safe.
I remember that there was a movie about World War II
fighter pilots with the title "12 O'Clock High".
It was bombers, and not just the pilots. Gregory Peck and the 918th (really
the 306th) Bomb Group, US 8th Army Air Force, set in 1942, made in 1949.
Later a tv series, same name.
A favorite WW2 TV series of mine.

The B-17 used in that series is under
restoration and can be seen in this
short video. Piccadilly Lilly II



Perhaps the most famous B-17 of all. The movie and
series was based on the true story of the
306th bomb group.

My dad flew 38 missions for the 307th bomb group
in B-24's in the Pacific theater.

The 306th was called "First Over Germany".
My dad's unit the 307th was called "The Long Rangers"
due to the fact many of their missions involved
very hazardous 8 or 10 hour flights over the
Pacific to reach their targets.

https://www.307bg.net/

Considering my dad's unit lost 25% of it's squadron
in just...one mission bombing the Yamato, him surviving
41 missions total makes me feel like the luckiest person
alive literally speaking. When I researched his
war record I'm astonished he lived through it.
And his bomber crew obviously felt the same
way if you look at this picture of his unit
I found in his war picture album.

"We were lucky"
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMMJyuN5_YrqYMKPJluuOCPzXyR5RxQqjjzjXO8HGBv3A6YyafFmdB6WxbIdPkQ2w?pli=1&key=SzN4cGU0SlY4TVRtcFZmb0lGaEN5RUt3cTVtdWJB



Piccadilly Lilly II

Piccadilly Lilly II (s/n 44-83684) was the last active
B-17 Flying Fortress bomber in the United States Air Force,
and retired in 1959 after nine years as a DB-17P drone
director. She is currently part of Edward T. Maloney's
aviation collection and is being restored to flying
condition at the Planes of Fame air museum, Chino,
California.[1]

This aircraft was possibly the last aircraft assigned
to the 8th AF / 447th Bomb Group but perhaps not delivered
(Freeman).[2]

This aircraft was used in the Dick Powell Theatre episode
"Squadron," and The Quinn Martin production of
Twelve O'Clock High starring Robert Lansing and Paul Burke.
She was redressed to represent the numerous aircraft which
comprised the mythical 918th Bomb Group. She also appeared
in The Thousand Plane Raid as well as Black Sheep Squadron.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccadilly_Lilly_II


The following is the account of my dad'a first four missions
in combat to give you an idea of the immense casualty rates
of bomber crews back then.



October 1944
My Dad's First Month in Combat!


General MacArthur, in keeping his famous promise, steadily
advanced from one Pacific Island to another, so the 307th
Bombardment Group, the Long Rangers "Jungle Air Force"
moved along with him.

His base at Wadke Island Aerodrome, just off the coast
of New Guinea, was the last 'island hop' for his group
before the big invasion of the Philippines.

His unit, the 307th, was comprised of 4 B-24 Bomber Squadrons,
the 370th, 371st, 372nd and my dad's unit, the 424th.

His group the 307th was named 'The Long Rangers' due to
the fact most missions involved extremely long flights
over the Pacific. Meaning almost any battle damage would
make returning safely difficult.


307th Bomber Group Homepage
http://www.307bg.net/



OCT 3 Mission.

The 370th, 371st, 372nd and 424th squadrons attacked
the crucial Balakapapan oil fields. Source of 13% of the entire
Japanese oil and gas supplies, considered the 'Ploesti' of the
Japanese Empire, and one of the most vital targets of the
entire Pacific war. And it was defended by the Japanese
'fanatically' according to the group commander.

370th Squadron mission results;

"It is impossible to rate this mission as only one
of our planes over the target returned to base."

371st Squadron mission results.

"Fifteen minutes before the bomb run, the squadron
was attacked for an hour and a half by numerous relays of
enemy fighters of 40-50 planes in each relay. Some enemy
fighters flew above the formation and dropped several
phosphorus bombs accurately. 2 planes were lost.

A/C #599 Lt Connell, pilot, was attacked by a Zeke
from 2 o'clock high and was hit in the #1 engine which
was seen to smoke and flame. Friendly submarine reported
that it picked up 10 men of the 11-man crew.

"A/C # 955 Lt Kates, pilot, was observed to receive
a direct AA hit just prior to bombs away, and fire broke
out at the left wing root. The plane fell off in flames and
crashes, three men were seen to bail out.

A/C # 568, Lt Kendall, pilot, was attacked by a Zeke over
the target, and hit in #3 engine, the plane fell off to the left
and was immediately attacked by 3 or 4 fighters. The plane
caught fire, and 3 or 4 men were observed to parachute
just before the plane exploded in the air.

A/C # 565, Lt Wright, pilot, was attacked by enemy fighters
and lost #2 engine, just prior to bombs away; the plane
went into a steep right bank and crashed into the water.
One chute was seen to open.

A/C # 6t14, Lt. Rourie, pilot, had #3 engine on fire over
the target, and appeared to have control damage from AA.
Two parachutes were sighted a few minutes later in the
water. A Jap seaplane was also observed to be circling
this position.

A/C #101 Lt Rider, pilot, was rammed in the right wing
by an enemy fighter, during the bomb run, part of the
right wing came off, and the Liberator turned on its back
and went into a dive and crashed near the target, no
chutes were seen.

This Kamikaze attack was photographed and published
by the AP nation wide.

B-24 shot down "Over the Philippines"
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/307th-bg-liberator-going-down-over-philipines-31642.html

Lt Wheeler's plane, a 20mm shell exploded in their
cockpit, paralyzing the right leg and arm of the pilot
and the co-pilot was bleeding so badly he became
barely conscious. With one engine out and the help
of the engineer, they managed to keep flying
for the 6 hours it took to get back, and somehow
landed safely. In the words of the group commander...

"Some crews have it, some crews don't.
This crew had it...in large quantities."

"307th gunners shot down 23 aircraft."

"On the Oct 3 raid, 21% of all personal that started out
have not returned. 29% of the airplanes that day
will never fly again. In all 12 planes were lost in
combat, one crashed on take off, and 32 were
damaged."

In conclusion, the mission report reads...

"Is is doubtful that a more dangerous, grueling and heart-breaking
mission has ever been performed in any theater of war. This report
can by no means adequately reflect the feast of individual heroism
and bravery displayed, which are too numerous to mention."

"A crippling blow was struck against Japan's fuel and lubricating
supplies when the "Long Rangers" left in shambles cracking plants
paraffin plants etc, that, it is estimated will take a year to repair."

"Letters of commendation from General Arnold and General
MacArthur have been received and distributed to the squadrons
participating in the foregoing strikes"

"Awards for September and October, 1944
307th Bombardment Group;"

Air Medals 123
Oak Leaf Clusters 19
Distinguished Flying Cross 1
Purple Hearts 8

Oct Unit Report
http://www.307bg.net/data/missionreports/1944/October44_Hist_Record-424bs.pdf


.....................................



OCT 26 Mission:

All 4 squadrons were sent out to search for enemy shipping.

"Just as the 307th formation entered the Sulu Sea, a message
was picked up from "Peggy 2" to intercept a unit of 6 vessels.
26 miles East of the formation.The group leader spotted what
he thought was a flotilla of heavy and light cruisers, so he barged
right in. Major John Neely held course for a few minutes
then "crossed the T" of the enemy task force.

But it turned out to be a fleet of battleships.

The Battleships Yamato, the largest ever built, the Nagato
with her 16 inch guns, and the Battleships Kongo and Haruna
along with several heavy cruisers.

They stumbled into the bulk of the remaining Japanese navy
as they were leaving the Battle of Leyte Gulf after their
defeat. Considered the largest naval battle of WW2
and perhaps ever.


Battleship Yamato



The Yamato used her 18" guns at times for anti aircraft fire
using 'San Shiki' shells.


Oct 26th mission results;

"In as much as this is the first time heavy bombardment
squadrons have taken under attack major units of the
Japanese battle fleet, it is thought of interest to record
in detail and to diagram the actions of the two forces."

"This bombing is rated as excellent. 28 Liberators, 7 each
from the 370th, 371st, 372nd and 424th attacked the flotilla.
AA Fire; Intense, heavy and accurate. It was of the barrage
type and composed of different type bursts, being black,
yellow, orange and gold, as well as white." Major Neely
promptly began a loss of 500' of altitude and a turn to the
left into his bombing run. This proved to be extremely
effective. It is felt that the losses from AA might have been
much heavier then they were."

"The first sections of the group, consisting of the 370th and
372nd took on the Konga Class Battleships, while the
371st and 424nd attacked the Yamato two minutes later.
The Yamato continued in a tight 360 degree turn while
the Konga made a tight "S" turn."

Lt Hicks was hit by flack just as the bomb run began.
It struck midway between the bomb bay and tail, the
plane began to smoke, a few seconds later the tail
of the plane burst into flames and went into a spin.
One man was seen to have jumped out but no
parachute was seen to open.

Lt Jones was hit over the target. However this plane
was reported to drop its bombs on the target.
It later burst into flames and was last seen falling
into the sea enveloped in flames. No men were
seen bailing out.

Lt Sutphin received a burst of AA in the # 3
engine during the bomb run. The pilot was able
to keep the plane in flight for an hour and a half
It was reported this aircraft lost its # 4 engine
at this time. The plane went into a spin and crashed
into the sea. Three men were seen to bail out of
this plane. One man's chute became tangled with
the disabled aircraft, a second became enmeshed
in his chute, and the third man was dragged along
for about 500 yards through the water until the chute
collapsed.

A total of 3 of 7 B-24's from the 424th were lost
1 more crashed on take-off and 14 were damaged by
AA fire."

http://www.307bg.net/data/missionreports/1944/26oct44_Diagram_Jap_Fleet.pdf

Oct 26 Group report
http://www.307bg.net/data/missionreports/1944/27oct44_307_353D-Group.pdf



On Nov 2nd, his 3rd mission, they searched for the Yamato
flotilla for 15 hours without success. Turns out the Yamato
task force was in Brunei, for supplies. His log book for that
day read...using his grammar.

"Couldn't find battleships, would have been suiscide for us"



On his 4th mission, on Nov 6, he shot down his first fighter!

"Got one for sure" his log book reads.

He was on the right waist gun and flying a formation
of 6 B-24's at 12,500 feet in a modified box formation
with 2 P-47 escorts. And 7 hours from base his squadron
was attacked by 20 Japanese fighters.

The Zeke came in from behind, between 5 and 7 o'clock level.
After the burst, it started to smoke badly, banked right and
went into a steep vertical dive. It was last seen going into
the clouds at 4000 feet trailing thick black smoke. Because
of the cloud cover, it was credited as a 'probable'.

The enemy fighters made 15 or 20 more passes at his plane
all from behind. The P-47 escorts shot down two of them

Nov 6 Mission Report
http://www.307bg.net/data/missionreports/1944/6nov44_307_357-372sq.pdf


My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
Post by Wolffan
So asteroids can, without deliberate intent, employ
a time-honored tactic used in aerial warfare.
you’re being sillier than usual.
This is not surprising, and it is a risk we will have to live with.
Eventually, perhaps we will have space telescopes deployed
at the L4 and L5 points of the Earth-Sun system to aid in
detecting incoming asteroids so as to minimize this issue.
John Savard
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
BCFD36
2021-09-24 20:52:51 UTC
Reply
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[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)
Jonathan
2021-09-24 22:29:49 UTC
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Post by BCFD36
[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
Researching my dad's war history changed my entire outlook
on life, I realized just how lucky I was to have been born.
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-25 00:12:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Post by BCFD36
[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
Researching my dad's war history changed my entire outlook
on life, I realized just how lucky I was to have been born.
Congrats.

Hal, or more correctly his eldest sister, had a similar stroke of
luck. Their father-to-be had been sailing (as an engineer) on oil
tankers. He was transferred to a training school, to train other
people how to be engineers on oil tankers.

He reported for duty on December 6, 1941.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-09-25 01:36:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jonathan
Post by BCFD36
[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
Researching my dad's war history changed my entire outlook
on life, I realized just how lucky I was to have been born.
Congrats.
Hal, or more correctly his eldest sister, had a similar stroke of
luck. Their father-to-be had been sailing (as an engineer) on oil
tankers. He was transferred to a training school, to train other
people how to be engineers on oil tankers.
He reported for duty on December 6, 1941.
Mine was on the mid-Atlantic submarine patrol, aboard the Gertrude L.
Thebaud, the Pride of Gloucester and designed specifically (and
unsuccessfully) to beat Bluenose. I think he missed a fast sailing
ship after that. When the war started he transferred from the Coast
Guard to the Navy and as a Seabee hit every island in the Pacific. I
know at one point he was in a plane crash and had to have his nose
reconstructed, and that he ruptured his eardrums when the ship got
torpedoed, but that from grumbling about aches and pains and not being
able to hear. He didn't really talk about the war much. Did have
some pictures though.
Jonathan
2021-09-26 14:13:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jonathan
Post by BCFD36
[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
Researching my dad's war history changed my entire outlook
on life, I realized just how lucky I was to have been born.
Congrats.
Hal, or more correctly his eldest sister, had a similar stroke of
luck. Their father-to-be had been sailing (as an engineer) on oil
tankers. He was transferred to a training school, to train other
people how to be engineers on oil tankers.
He reported for duty on December 6, 1941.
Mine was on the mid-Atlantic submarine patrol, aboard the Gertrude L.
Thebaud, the Pride of Gloucester and designed specifically (and
unsuccessfully) to beat Bluenose. I think he missed a fast sailing
ship after that. When the war started he transferred from the Coast
Guard to the Navy and as a Seabee hit every island in the Pacific. I
know at one point he was in a plane crash and had to have his nose
reconstructed, and that he ruptured his eardrums when the ship got
torpedoed, but that from grumbling about aches and pains and not being
able to hear. He didn't really talk about the war much. Did have
some pictures though.
I used to crew on a Flying Dutchman in races
in the Chesapeake, I can still feel the water
hitting me when we capsized while I was on
the trapeze, splash!

Damn wind let up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapeze_(sailing)

The boat turned turtle, and since his airbags
were leaky it ended up floating about 3 feet
completely underwater. So we had to stand on it
while waiting for the rescue boat. When they
arrived they were rather confused at seeing
us standing there from the waist up and nothing
else to be seen a mile out in the ocean.

"What in the hell are you standing on" they shouted
as they arrived. "Our boat" we replied in complete
embarrassment.


Here's a nice video of the famous race with Bluenose.
There's little prettier on the ocean that a large
sailboat in a stiff breeze. At the 1:20 mark of
the video is the stuff of art.

US schooner Gertrude L. Thebaud gets beaten by Canadian
schooner Bluenose in a ra...HD Stock Footage

video (1:21)
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=gertrude+thebaud


MODEL
GRAND BANK FISHING SCHOONER "THE GERTRUDE L THEBAUD" PYRO
1956 1/96 Condition:New
Price:
US $110.00
https://rb.gy/h9pzwp


Our Model

The Gertrude L. Thebaud is one of the most famous fishing schooners
out of Gloucester, home of rugged and sea-wise fishermen.
This sleek, sturdy vessel was built with a weather eye on
practicability of fishing and a lee eye on the pride of
being the fastest schooner afloat.

The Gertrude L Thebaud is a striking model with its white sails
and contrasting rigging. Great pains have been taken to reproduce
the dull-black topsides of the original schooner and the red
anti-fouling paint on her bottom. The deck houses and fittings
are white and spars are stained with white trim. The model is
mounted on a mahogony base with a brass finish nameplate.
http://www.pielcraftsmen.com/ships/gertrudel.thebaud.html


"Rated by her master, Captain Ben Pine, as a 16 1/2 knot vessel
in a strong breeze, she carried Commander MacMillan on several
of his Arctic explorations.


16 1/2 knots! I wonder how many are aware that sailing
ships were almost as fast as powered cargo ships?

Compare that to the Victory cargo ships of WW2...

Victory ship
From Wiki

Speed 15–17 knots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_ship
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Jonathan
2021-09-26 14:19:56 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
US schooner Gertrude L. Thebaud gets beaten by Canadian
schooner Bluenose in a ra...HD Stock Footage
Correct link to the video, at the 0:46 mark is the shot
I was referring to.


https://rb.gy/axsv6s

Wolffan
2021-09-24 23:57:24 UTC
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Post by BCFD36
[stunning tale deleted]
Post by Jonathan
My dad still had 38 more missions left to go!
That was an absolutely harrowing account. They are not called "The
Greatest Generation" for nothing.
The oil field raid reads like Operation Tidal Wave to Ploiești, 177 B-24s
launched; 162 made it to the target. 53 were destroyed. 55 were damaged
beyond repair. One aircraft had 365 7.92mm bullet holes. 5 Medals of Honor,
three posthumous; 56 Distinguished Service Crosses. The 9th Army Air Force
never flew a strategic raid again, it became the 9th Tactical, flying light
and medium bombers and fighters. Surviving B-24s went to other Army Air
Forces; the 9th had borrowed some from the 8th, and sent the survivors back,
but the remnants had to be reconstituted and the 8th flew only B-17 raids for
three months afterwards... including Schweinfurt–Regensburg, where the 8th
lost 60 B-17s, and 2nd Schweinfurt, losing 77 more. (Some B-24s were
available for 2nd Schweinfurt, but never made it to the primary target. The
main raid was B-17s only, and they got hammered.) After 2nd Schweinfurt the
8th AAF stopped attempting long range deep penetration raids, until escorts
could be provided all the way there and back. The 8th went back to
Schweinfurt, only with fighter cover, and took far fewer loses.

August 1943 was a very bad month for the Allied air forces. First there were
the losses in Tidal Wave, then Schweinfurt–Regensburg, then the RAF lost 98
aircraft out of just under 800 bombing Nuremberg. And the light forces got
hammered, too; RAF 2nd Tactical lost nearly half its strength during a series
of raids in France, the Netherlands, and western Germany, and stopped flying
Boston/Havoc and Vega aircraft and eased back on Mitchells. (They flew more
Mosquitos instead, and were _much_ more effective.) In India and Burma the
RAF and the IAF faced off against experienced Japanese aircrew and took
serious lumps until they learned how to fight the agile but fragile Japanese.
(Don’t slow down. If you slow to under 310 knots, the various Japanese
fighters will eat your formations alive. Stay above 320 knots and a Spitfire
V can and will outturn even a Zero or its Imperial Army cousin, a Hayabusa.
By the end of the war, the Indian Air Force’s Spitfires managed to kill 16
Japanese fighters for ever Spit lost, but that wasn’t how things were going
in 1943. The very last air-to-air kill of the war was a Zero killed by a New
Zealand pilot flying from the British Pacific Fleet on 15 Aug 1945. He was
flying a Seafire II, essentially a navalized Spitfire V.

Units like the Men of the Century, the Bloody 100th Bomb Group, became
infamous. The Bloody 100th lost 9 out of 21 aircraft in the
Schweinfurt–Regensburg raid. In March 1944 they were the lead formation on
the very first raid the 8th made on Berlin, and lost 15 of 21. They lost 7 or
more out of 21 aircraft no less than eight times. A unit is considered
destroyed in action if it loses 33% or more of its numbers; the Bloody 100th
was effectively destroyed in action _eight times_. But the survivors picked
themselves up and came back for more.
https://www.historynet.com/the-bloody-100th.htm
Kevrob
2021-09-25 08:51:32 UTC
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On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 4:15:17 AM UTC-4, Jonathan wrote:

[snip]
Post by Jonathan
His base at Wadke Island Aerodrome, just off the coast
of New Guinea, was the last 'island hop' for his group
before the big invasion of the Philippines.
His unit, the 307th, was comprised of 4 B-24 Bomber Squadrons,
the 370th, 371st, 372nd and my dad's unit, the 424th.
His group the 307th was named 'The Long Rangers' due to
the fact most missions involved extremely long flights
over the Pacific. Meaning almost any battle damage would
make returning safely difficult.
[snip]


My Dad was already in the US Army Corps of Engineers when the Japanese
attacked Pearl Harbor. His unit was sent to Australia and then to New Guinea
to build airstrips. Your Dad may have flown off runways built by mine!
--
Kevin R
Robert Woodward
2021-09-25 17:14:13 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
[snip]
Post by Jonathan
His base at Wadke Island Aerodrome, just off the coast
of New Guinea, was the last 'island hop' for his group
before the big invasion of the Philippines.
His unit, the 307th, was comprised of 4 B-24 Bomber Squadrons,
the 370th, 371st, 372nd and my dad's unit, the 424th.
His group the 307th was named 'The Long Rangers' due to
the fact most missions involved extremely long flights
over the Pacific. Meaning almost any battle damage would
make returning safely difficult.
[snip]
My Dad was already in the US Army Corps of Engineers when the Japanese
attacked Pearl Harbor. His unit was sent to Australia and then to New Guinea
to build airstrips. Your Dad may have flown off runways built by mine!
I am fairly certain that my father was in a different air group
(headquarters clerk), but he did take pictures of his time in New
Guinea, perhaps of those airstrips.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Jack Bohn
2021-09-25 20:51:37 UTC
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Permalink
He was pushing thirty when Pearl Harbor happened, and he was
already training pilot cadets, as a civilian employee, before
that.
But then the Army decided that all pilot instructor must be
officers, so they took him off what he was doing to spend six
weeks in Basic (in Mobile, Alabama, a place for which he never
had a kind word), and then three months in Orlando, Florida
(which ditto) becoming an officer.
You'd think after Basic he could at least say Orlando wasn't Mobile.
But I'm thinking of the Orlando pf 40 years later, with Disneyworld,
and, more importantly, air conditioning.
--
-Jack
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-25 21:49:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
He was pushing thirty when Pearl Harbor happened, and he was
already training pilot cadets, as a civilian employee, before
that.
But then the Army decided that all pilot instructor must be
officers, so they took him off what he was doing to spend six
weeks in Basic (in Mobile, Alabama, a place for which he never
had a kind word), and then three months in Orlando, Florida
(which ditto) becoming an officer.
You'd think after Basic he could at least say Orlando wasn't Mobile.
But I'm thinking of the Orlando pf 40 years later, with Disneyworld,
and, more importantly, air conditioning.
Oh yes, he didn't compare Orlando to Mobile.

He told a story about Mobile: he and some fellow recruits had
gotten some time off to go play golf, and they hired a local
(Black) teenager to carry their bags. And my father was
complaining about the heat, and his buddies were complaining
about the heat, and the teenager was complaining about the heat,
and one of the golfers said, "What are you complaining about?
You were born here."

And the kid replied, "Yeah, boss, but I wasn't born here in the
summertime."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-09-25 23:12:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
He was pushing thirty when Pearl Harbor happened, and he was
already training pilot cadets, as a civilian employee, before
that.
But then the Army decided that all pilot instructor must be
officers, so they took him off what he was doing to spend six
weeks in Basic (in Mobile, Alabama, a place for which he never
had a kind word), and then three months in Orlando, Florida
(which ditto) becoming an officer.
You'd think after Basic he could at least say Orlando wasn't Mobile.
But I'm thinking of the Orlando pf 40 years later, with Disneyworld,
and, more importantly, air conditioning.
Oh yes, he didn't compare Orlando to Mobile.
He told a story about Mobile: he and some fellow recruits had
gotten some time off to go play golf, and they hired a local
(Black) teenager to carry their bags. And my father was
complaining about the heat, and his buddies were complaining
about the heat, and the teenager was complaining about the heat,
and one of the golfers said, "What are you complaining about?
You were born here."
And the kid replied, "Yeah, boss, but I wasn't born here in the
summertime."
I was born in North Florida in the summertime and I still didn't like
the heat. Hell, I don't like the heat in the summer in Connecticut,
but at least if you blink you miss it.
Jonathan
2021-09-26 13:41:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
He was pushing thirty when Pearl Harbor happened, and he was
already training pilot cadets, as a civilian employee, before
that.
But then the Army decided that all pilot instructor must be
officers, so they took him off what he was doing to spend six
weeks in Basic (in Mobile, Alabama, a place for which he never
had a kind word), and then three months in Orlando, Florida
(which ditto) becoming an officer.
You'd think after Basic he could at least say Orlando wasn't Mobile.
But I'm thinking of the Orlando pf 40 years later, with Disneyworld,
and, more importantly, air conditioning.
Oh yes, he didn't compare Orlando to Mobile.
He told a story about Mobile: he and some fellow recruits had
gotten some time off to go play golf, and they hired a local
(Black) teenager to carry their bags. And my father was
complaining about the heat, and his buddies were complaining
about the heat, and the teenager was complaining about the heat,
and one of the golfers said, "What are you complaining about?
You were born here."
And the kid replied, "Yeah, boss, but I wasn't born here in the
summertime."
My dad went through pilot training in Michigan. Brrr!

He ended up a professor at Mich State Univ, and one
day while he was dropping me off at class he pointed
to a tower on campus and said with a broad smile
that was the very first thing he buzzed while learning
to fly.
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Jonathan
2021-09-26 14:08:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
[snip]
Post by Jonathan
His base at Wadke Island Aerodrome, just off the coast
of New Guinea, was the last 'island hop' for his group
before the big invasion of the Philippines.
His unit, the 307th, was comprised of 4 B-24 Bomber Squadrons,
the 370th, 371st, 372nd and my dad's unit, the 424th.
His group the 307th was named 'The Long Rangers' due to
the fact most missions involved extremely long flights
over the Pacific. Meaning almost any battle damage would
make returning safely difficult.
[snip]
My Dad was already in the US Army Corps of Engineers when the Japanese
attacked Pearl Harbor. His unit was sent to Australia and then to New Guinea
to build airstrips. Your Dad may have flown off runways built by mine!
Most of the major airfields in New Guinea were built or
repaired by the 46th Engineer Battalion. Maybe that
was his unit?

46TH ENGINEER BATTALION HISTORY
https://home.army.mil/polk/index.php/units-tenants/46th-engineer-battalion/46th-engineer-battalion-history

And it's still in service today

46TH ENGINEER BATTALION
https://home.army.mil/polk/index.php/units-tenants/46th-engineer-battalion


LEADING THE WAY:
THE HISTORY OF AIR FORCE CIVIL ENGINEERS
1907-2012


page 83

For Port Moresby to serve as the main air base for operations,
a string of supporting airfields was needed along the coast
of northern Queensland. Construction of these airfields
fell primarily to the 46th Engineers, who sailed into Melbourne
in late February. After two weeks training in Melbourne,
the group began clearing and grading the three runways of a
giant airfield at Woodstock near Townsville.

The first airplane landed four days after construction
commenced. Company A built a 2,500-foot steel mat runway
at Torrens Creek southwest of Townsville in just five days,
a possible record for the time.

Companies B, C, and F built a third airfield at Reid River.
195 Despite the challenges faced while building airfields
in the bush country of northern Australia, the experience
provided excellent training for the troops, who lived under
the most primitive conditions and accomplished their work
with minimal machinery. This was only a taste of the
challenges to come

https://media.defense.gov/2015/Apr/02/2001329844/-1/-1/0/AFD-150402-022.pdf
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
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