Discussion:
Imperial Sunset by Eric Thomson
(too old to reply)
David Johnston
2018-10-09 01:50:42 UTC
Permalink
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls. Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...

This is Foundation, isn't it?
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-10-09 02:12:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls. Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no. Definitely no Sisters of the Void. Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).

There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere. Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.

I quote from "The Foundation of SF Success":

So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2018-10-09 03:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls. Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no. Definitely no Sisters of the Void. Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere. Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
David Johnston
2018-10-09 04:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
  With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.

And when I read this:

“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”

(They added the Sister of the Void along the way.)

Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Robert Carnegie
2018-10-09 09:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
  With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sister of the Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?

(I've read Foundation but not this book. Perhaps they
use SD cards instead? The principle is the same.)
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-10-09 11:42:50 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:23:42 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sister of the Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
(I've read Foundation but not this book. Perhaps they
use SD cards instead? The principle is the same.)
Distributed bytes are still lost if they're not indexed or findable -
the substrate will decay pretty quickly in human terms, a decade or two.

The Internet Archive is adding four petabytes (four million gigabytes) a
year to its indexed stores. That's an awful lot of 8gig sticks to
wrangle. You need someone to centralise that sort of effort, and that
introduces risks. But here are the non-Gov people who are doing it:

<https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/10/the-internets-keepers-some-call-us-hoarders-i-like-to-say-were-archivists/>

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Women's breasts are like electric train sets. They're meant for
kids, but usually it's the fathers who wind up playing with them.
s***@yahoo.com
2018-10-10 20:15:04 UTC
Permalink
There were some Japanese working on non-volatile storage. I think it was a glass block with 3'd laser etching.

I'll be wanting it for the "civilization in a can" concept, where you can send out a space probe on a thousand year journey and recreate life at the destination.

One example is a short story The Princess and the Silver Shoes.

Nils K. Hammer
Robert Carnegie
2018-10-10 20:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
There were some Japanese working on non-volatile storage. I think it was a glass block with 3'd laser etching.
I'll be wanting it for the "civilization in a can" concept, where you can send out a space probe on a thousand year journey and recreate life at the destination.
One example is a short story The Princess and the Silver Shoes.
Nils K. Hammer
Hmm... "Silver Shoes for a Princess" appears at
<http://www.baen.com/Chapters/067157843X/067157843X___1.htm>
- legally, I hope - if it's what you meant. And Dorothy in
_The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ had silver shoes, but I don't
know who else did (except the lady that she got them from),
and Dorothy lost 'em. Wikipedia says they're recovered in
_Dorothy of Oz_, but that's a revisionist text.
David Johnston
2018-10-09 16:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
  With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey to
the elements.
David Johnston
2018-10-09 17:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey to
the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-10-09 19:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-10-09 20:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Assuming it stays up.

Though I will note that during the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989,
near Santa Cruz, CA, Richter 6.9), all sorts of communications
went down, but the telephone lines stayed up (except for one
substation whose emergency generator broke down), and all news
about the earthquake and its results, over the next couple of
days, was carried on USENET.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
David Johnston
2018-10-09 20:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Assuming it stays up.
The Internet is for Porn" is a song from the Broadway musical Avenue Q
that has been absorbed in a wide variety of videos online, sometimes
with images from various sources, mimicking the song's performance, or a
general affirmation of the statement that the Internet's primary use is
for pornography through user-generated images.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-internet-is-for-porn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Though I will note that during the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989,
near Santa Cruz, CA, Richter 6.9), all sorts of communications
went down, but the telephone lines stayed up (except for one
substation whose emergency generator broke down), and all news
about the earthquake and its results, over the next couple of
days, was carried on USENET.
Adamastor Glace Mortimer
2018-10-12 13:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
....
That is what the internet is for.
Assuming it stays up.
Though I will note that during the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989,
near Santa Cruz, CA, Richter 6.9), all sorts of communications
went down, but the telephone lines stayed up (except for one
substation whose emergency generator broke down), and all news
about the earthquake and its results, over the next couple of
days, was carried on USENET.
Which is the sort of thing that USENET was invented for, dealing
with disasters. It was actually invented for dealing with a much
larger disaster than the 1989, earthquake, but it still showed how
viable it was. I think it still is.


Adamastor Glace Mortimer
Gary R. Schmidt
2018-10-12 14:29:23 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
....
That is what the internet is for.
Assuming it stays up.
Though I will note that during the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989,
near Santa Cruz, CA, Richter 6.9), all sorts of communications
went down, but the telephone lines stayed up (except for one
substation whose emergency generator broke down), and all news
about the earthquake and its results, over the next couple of
days, was carried on USENET.
Which is the sort of thing that USENET was invented for, dealing
with disasters. It was actually invented for dealing with a much
larger disaster than the 1989, earthquake, but it still showed how
viable it was. I think it still is.
You mean TCP/IP, not USENET.

Or, initially, ARPANET.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Robert Carnegie
2018-10-09 21:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Then I bet three fine flint knives that the barbarians
keep that working :-)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-10-09 21:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the
far end of a
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Then I bet three fine flint knives that the barbarians
keep that working :-)
It will be a "Spector General" situation for keeping the "Sisters Of The
Void Gone Wild" telescreens working..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dimensional Traveler
2018-10-09 23:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
   With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Then I bet three fine flint knives that the barbarians
keep that working :-)
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-10 01:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
OK so as the generic interstellar empire is in it's death throes and one
starship commander decides to hell with this business and decides to
lead his command on quest to some backwater safe place on the fringe
where his people can live safely and lay the groundwork for a
restoration of human civilization, a repository of the knowledge that
will be lost as the empire falls.  Along the way he picks a unit of
marines and a shipload of "Sisters of the Void" a religious order with
psychic powers and a firm belief in destiny who will help guide him and
the society he hopes to found and...
This is Foundation, isn't it?
Not literally, no.  Definitely no Sisters of the Void.  Religion
doesn't come into it till the second segment of _Foundation_ (the
annexation of Anacreon) and psionics doesn't come in till the
second half of _Foundation and Empire_ (the Mule _et seq._).
There are a whole *lot* of stories by now with somebody trying to
rescue the seeds of civilization and set up elsewhere.  Don't
forget, Asimov based the whole thing on the fall of the Roman
Empire, and the preservation of literacy and technology in the
monasteries.
So success is not a mystery, just brush up on your history, and
borrow day by day;
Take an Empire that was Roman and you'll find it was at home in
all the starry Milky Way.
th a drive that's hyperspatial, through the parsecs you will
race, you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
    With a tiny bit of cribbin' from the works of Edward Gibbon
and
that Greek, Thucydides.
In addition to what Dorothy says, 'Foundation' was an effort much larger
than 1 ship and crew and was started well before the decline of the
Empire was apparent to anyone.
There were four ships and about 1500 refugees all told, with the Sisters
of the Void bringing in more after the end of the book.
“I’m taking our three ships to a colony established at the far end of a
wormhole cul-de-sac which I hope might escape destruction.  With a bit
of planning and some luck, we might be able to turn this colony into a
human knowledge vault and preserve what we can.  That way, our
descendants might short-circuit the long night and allow for an earlier
dawn.”
(They added the Sisters Of The Void along the way.)
Well, I just had this powerful feeling of deja vu even though it's a
more cobbled-together effort than that of Hari Seldon.
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Then I bet three fine flint knives that the barbarians
keep that working  :-)
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
And brew beer.

Lynn
Titus G
2018-10-10 06:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
And brew beer.
To obtain the naked women's consent?
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-10 19:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
And brew beer.
To obtain the naked women's consent?
Consent is a relatively new concept for sex.

Lynn
Titus G
2018-10-11 01:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Titus G
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
And brew beer.
To obtain the naked women's consent?
Consent is a relatively new concept for sex.
Lynn
Candy is dandy but liquor is ........
s***@yahoo.com
2018-10-10 19:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Studies say women brewed the beer, may be the cause of civilization.
Bice
2018-10-11 20:45:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 16:03:58 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
Hey, someone else watched Coupling. Or maybe it's a coincidence.

Anyway, that's very close to a quote from one of my favorite bits of
that show, when discussion at a dinner party turns to the subject of
why the character Steve had a porn movie called "Lesbian Spank
Inferno" in his VCR:

"Oh, because it's got naked women in it!

Look, I like naked women! I'm a bloke! I'm supposed to like them!
We're born like that. We like naked women as soon as we're pulled out
of one. Halfway down the birth canal we're already enjoying the view.

Look, it's the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like:
naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond.
Because that is what being a bloke is. And if you don't like it,
darling, join a film collective.

I want to spend the rest of my life with the woman at the end of the
table here. But that does not stop me wanting to see several thousand
more naked bottoms before I die. Because that's what being a bloke is.

When Man invented fire, he didn't say "Hey, let's cook!" He said:
"Great! Now we can see naked bottoms in the dark!" As soon as Caxton
invented the printing press we were using it to make pictures of -
hey! - naked bottoms. We've turned the Internet into an enormous
international database of... naked bottoms.

So, you see, the story of male achievement through the ages, feeble
though it may have been, has been the story of our struggle to get a
better look at your bottoms. Frankly, girls, I'm not so sure how
insulted you really ought to be."
Peter Trei
2018-10-11 22:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bice
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 16:03:58 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Man invented fire so he could see naked women in the dark.
Hey, someone else watched Coupling. Or maybe it's a coincidence.
Written by Steven Moffat (Dr. Who, Sherlock). Definitely worth a watch.

pt
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-10-09 23:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey
to the elements.
Besides, most of it will just be stuffed with porn anyway.
That is what the internet is for.
Then I bet three fine flint knives that the barbarians
keep that working :-)
ObStarTrekTOS: ~"Ma'am, I am attempting to build a computer out of
stone knives and bearskins."~

Which is what Hal and I had to do once when the DunDraCon server
died.

If you've heard this story before, hit 'n' now.

We'd done all the pre-registration and printed out the badges,
carefully taken down the computer (a Sun clone running UNIX), and
hauled it all to the hotel. We had volunteers handing out the
pre-printed badges; the new registrants were forming a long line
in front of the reg table and all the way down the ramp leading
down into the lobby. Hal booted up the computer ...

... and it didn't boot. It NEVER spoke again.

We'd been talking to the computer with ADM3As (remember them?)
and Hal managed to slave one to the printer, and to figure out a
couple of control codes that took the printer into, and out of,
a double-width font. And I sat there all day typing badges
straight into the printer, as Hal and I grumbled about stone
knives and bearskins.

And committee member Hilary Powers commented, "If you weren't
complaining so much, nobody would know anything was wrong."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Juho Julkunen
2018-10-09 20:32:25 UTC
Permalink
In article <ppimjk$1qvg$***@gioia.aioe.org>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey to
the elements.
The data might not be that well organized in the first place, and might
require considerable effort to reconstruct. It's not a given that the
new order would have the resources and the interest to do it, or be in
a position to do anything useful with it if they do.
--
Juho Julkunen
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-10-09 23:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
Actually, in a world with plentiful USB sticks, how
does a collapse of central authority lead to a loss of
knowledge?
If people lose the ability to produce, repair and maintain computer
hardware and their interest in same, the storage media can fall prey to
the elements.
The data might not be that well organized in the first place, and might
require considerable effort to reconstruct. It's not a given that the
new order would have the resources and the interest to do it, or be in
a position to do anything useful with it if they do.
Let's hear it for clay tablets that get hard-baked in the fires
of destruction.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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