Discussion:
Baen's Bar on Hiatus
(too old to reply)
James Nicoll
2021-02-16 14:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.

file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/

Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 16:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months, and somebody saying, "Well, why didn't you post on Baen's
Bar and talk about it and get everybody interested in it?"

Since I had never heard of Baen's Bar before that very day, I
said the equivalent of "Huh? What?"

And since _APoH_ got published in 1998 (by DAW), that was a very
long time ago, and I'm mildly surprised to read that the Bar
was still around.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-02-16 17:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author, but
a Google search quickly straightened me out on that one...

Meanwhile, due to the hiatus, I probably won't have to worry about recieving
death threats myself... I turned off images in Gmail just in case as a precaution.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 18:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.

but
Post by Quadibloc
a Google search quickly straightened me out on that one...
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Joel Polowin
2021-02-16 20:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.

Joel
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 21:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."

It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.

_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-02-17 04:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.

Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-17 04:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
It's got a lot more capacity than the mainframe did. It's just
*slower*. Also, it runs Raspbian and nothing else. No, it won't
run Win10 (or Winanythingelse), and we can't play LotRO on it.

On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-02-17 12:33:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
It's got a lot more capacity than the mainframe did. It's just
*slower*.
Than a modern mainframe yes. Than the one that I was running in 1975,
no. Terminal response is a little slow, which bugged me at first, but
then I realized that it's running 2012 version of the operating
system, not the 1975 version, and that it's supporting a 3270, which
while they existed in 1975 were seldom seen outside of IBM sales
centers.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Also, it runs Raspbian and nothing else. No, it won't
run Win10 (or Winanythingelse), and we can't play LotRO on it.
Actually mine is running Z/OS at the moment. Not natively but with an
emulator for the hardware.

There are at least 20 operating systems that work natively on the pi,
including a Windows variant.
https://www.fossmint.com/operating-systems-for-raspberry-pi/ And that
list is not complete--it does not include Android, Plan 9, Inferno,
and others.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
-dsr-
2021-02-18 18:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
`crontab -e` opens up your personal cron table in your default
editor.

Each non-blank line is either a comment starting with # or a set of fields
separated by spaces:

minute hour day-of-month month day-of-week command

So to have the playradio command run every weekday at 7:03 AM:

3 7 * * 1-5 playradio

* means every, and Sunday is counted as both day 0 and day 7. The command
is the entire rest of the line, so anything you can write on a command line
can go there; it doesn't generally need any special quoting.

And that's most of cron.

-dsr-
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-18 19:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by -dsr-
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
`crontab -e` opens up your personal cron table in your default
editor.
Each non-blank line is either a comment starting with # or a set of fields
minute hour day-of-month month day-of-week command
3 7 * * 1-5 playradio
* means every, and Sunday is counted as both day 0 and day 7. The command
is the entire rest of the line, so anything you can write on a command line
can go there; it doesn't generally need any special quoting.
And that's most of cron.
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-02-18 20:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-18 21:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
I assume so, yes.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Moriarty
2021-02-19 02:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.

-Moriarty
James Nicoll
2021-02-19 02:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
I would not expect that to be a large set.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 03:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-02-19 05:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-02-19 05:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Of course, taking your question _literally as phrased_, before someone
chimes in, a negative number may of course be a _member_ of a set.
But from context, the question you appear to have been asking was:
can a set contain a negative number of members.

John Savard
BCFD36
2021-02-19 19:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Of course, taking your question _literally as phrased_, before someone
chimes in, a negative number may of course be a _member_ of a set.
can a set contain a negative number of members.
John Savard
I think the intersection of the set of hip-hop artists and the set of
music artists Miss Dorothy likes is null.
--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Probably Retired)
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 20:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by BCFD36
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Of course, taking your question _literally as phrased_, before someone
chimes in, a negative number may of course be a _member_ of a set.
can a set contain a negative number of members.
I think the intersection of the set of hip-hop artists and the set of
music artists Miss Dorothy likes is null.
I think you're right.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 05:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.

I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-02-19 08:03:51 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 12:55:03 AM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
--
I could probably strap an argument to the table and
analogize the drone of the currently popular "trap"
style to chants, if I applied enough torture. It wouldn't
change the fact that Dorothy would be turned off by
any of the other musical markers of the genre, notably
the emphasis on "beats."

I don't really listen to hip hop, but a good friend of mine,
who has been a broadcast radio DJ and an MC is well
into it, and has been since it first emerged from the Bronx
and Brooklyn. I've learned a bit by osmosis.

At least I know why "Started on DeGrassi, now we're here..."
was amusing, the first time somebody said it.

https://degrassi.fandom.com/wiki/Drake_(entertainer)
--
Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 15:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
--
I could probably strap an argument to the table and
analogize the drone of the currently popular "trap"
style to chants, if I applied enough torture. It wouldn't
change the fact that Dorothy would be turned off by
any of the other musical markers of the genre, notably
the emphasis on "beats."
Uh, yeah. Particularly the variety called (IIRC) the backbeat,
where it goes beat! WHACK! beat! WHACK! throughout the entire
piece. When that starts up, when possible, I go somewhere else.

There is now a "classical" group that plays on kdfc sometimes,
that takes, e.g., a flute concerto by Bach and adds BONGO DRUMS.
But at least no backbeat.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-02-23 12:40:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust

(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-23 13:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
No, thank, I don't think I'll bother. Not my cuppa.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Chrysi Cat
2021-02-23 20:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever). Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow. But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
Are you TRYING to wound the hearts of Nile Rodgers or even Bernard
Edwards fans?

"The original hip-hop hit", it should be noted, did /not/ have an
original *baseline.*

I highly suspect that Queen wasn't copying the SugarHill Gang at all,
but rather, like them, sampling/interpolating "Good Times" by CHIC
*directly*.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Chrysi Cat
2021-02-23 20:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever).  Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow.  But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
Are you TRYING to wound the hearts of Nile Rodgers or even Bernard
Edwards fans?
"The original hip-hop hit", it should be noted, did /not/ have an
original *baseline.*
I highly suspect that Queen wasn't copying the SugarHill Gang at all,
but rather, like them, sampling/interpolating "Good Times" by CHIC
*directly*.
"BASEline"? Umm...would you believe that I was using voice-to-text?

Because I wasn't, but it's the only possible way that's a forgivable
error and I know it.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quadibloc
2021-02-23 21:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
"BASEline"? Umm...would you believe that I was using voice-to-text?
Because I wasn't, but it's the only possible way that's a forgivable
error and I know it.
We aren't all touch-typists.

Of course, I presume, then, that the correction is: _bass line_.

Not that I'm a musician. I can sing on key, but I can only read music
in the sense of determining what key on the piano each note corresponds
to, not what it *sounds* like... and I'm all thumbs when it comes to playing
any kind of musical instrument.

That hasn't stopped me from discussing music on my web site at

http://www.quadibloc.com/other/musint.htm

to which I recently added information about the archicembalo, after
hearing about it from a YouTube video; keyboards for unusual temperaments
were already a major topic of that section.

John Savard
Alan Baker
2021-02-23 22:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
I would not expect that to be a large set.
Can a set contain a negative number?
No, but the empty set, with zero members, is a valid set.
Thank you; that will do.
I don't object to anybody who likes hip-hop (or whatever) liking
hip-hop (or whatever).  Everybody to his own taste, said the good
woman as she kissed her cow.  But classical, from Gregorian chant
to John Williams, is my thing.
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
Are you TRYING to wound the hearts of Nile Rodgers or even Bernard
Edwards fans?
"The original hip-hop hit", it should be noted, did /not/ have an
original *baseline.*
I highly suspect that Queen wasn't copying the SugarHill Gang at all,
but rather, like them, sampling/interpolating "Good Times" by CHIC
*directly*.
"BASEline"? Umm...would you believe that I was using voice-to-text?
Because I wasn't, but it's the only possible way that's a forgivable
error and I know it.
It's a forgivable error because it's a very normal error.

Fingers on semi-automatic pilot.

:-)
Quadibloc
2021-02-23 21:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
Are you TRYING to wound the hearts of Nile Rodgers or even Bernard
Edwards fans?
"The original hip-hop hit", it should be noted, did /not/ have an
original *baseline.*
I highly suspect that Queen wasn't copying the SugarHill Gang at all,
but rather, like them, sampling/interpolating "Good Times" by CHIC
*directly*.
All right, I found Good Times by Chic:


or, in live performance, here:


I believe this 1979 hit belongs to the musical genre known as 'Disco'.

And this is Rapper's Delight from The Sugarhill Gang:


The beginning of _that_ has an unmistakable resemblance to "Another One
Bites the Dust", but I really didn't notice anything similar in "Good Times".

Another one Bites the Dust, by Queen:


Of course, I was confused... I thought that "Another One Bites the Dust"
came out long before Queen, and they just covered it. But I was thinking
of a different song entirely.

Maybe One Tin Soldier, by The Original Caste:


although it doesn't sound similar at all...

No, that wasn't the song I was thinking of. I had to search
on the lyrics to find it...

Ashes to Ashes by The Fifth Dimension:


John Savard
Chrysi Cat
2021-02-24 09:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
How about the original hip-hop hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight
As covered by Queen (some lyrics changed)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_One_Bites_the_Dust
(if you want Utube links tough, go search there)
Are you TRYING to wound the hearts of Nile Rodgers or even Bernard
Edwards fans?
"The original hip-hop hit", it should be noted, did /not/ have an
original *baseline.*
I highly suspect that Queen wasn't copying the SugarHill Gang at all,
but rather, like them, sampling/interpolating "Good Times" by CHIC
*directly*.
http://youtu.be/Er9xGRolrT4
http://youtu.be/RLTDpewIpfw
I believe this 1979 hit belongs to the musical genre known as 'Disco'.
http://youtu.be/ruuG2v88zSM
Post by Chrysi Cat
The beginning of _that_ has an unmistakable resemblance to "Another One
Bites the Dust", but I really didn't notice anything similar in "Good Times".
Good Lord. That bass line from 2 sec to 17 sec is either sampled or
interpolated by a different backing group and looped through "Rapper's
Delight", though not until ITS 17 second mark. And then the string
stings from "Good Times's" body were DEFINITELY sampled and used at
certain places in each rapper's boast. The most notable are the ones at
2:52 and 2:55 (in the video, they're accompanied by a stoplight flash)
in Master Gee's.

I will admit, though, that I *can* imagine where you might get confused
if you only listened to the intro 17 seconds, since like I said,
Sugarhill uses either an original composition or a sample of someone
*else* (which I don't think I've ever heard on the radio, so I suspect
"original" until, ironically, the same 17-second mark where the Chic
bass line starts varying..

But don't take my word for it because I've been accused of being
"face-blind with voices" as part of my spectrum disorder (something that
I do _not_ think is true, by the way); take the word of Nile Rodgers'
attorneys:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Times_(Chic_song)#Sampling_and_motifs .

Trust me, you are playing in /my/ sandbox here.

There's very little post-1965 music I actively *dislike*, including a
good percentage that I was opposed to at the time of its release but
which grew on me. That becomes increasingly true as you get into my
lifetime, since just about everything that was on the air from *'83* on
(to include these, since at the TIME an AC station would still have them
in the mix, though it would be starting to phase them out) I heard over
the air at some point when it was relatively new (my sixth birthday
presents included a clock radio for my room, and the other first-graders
had pointed me in the direction of the major top-40 AM station (in its
waning years, obviously, since "AM". I wound up doing its deathwatch a
couple years later just like all the folks who'd been listening since
before my parents finished university).

The biggest thing at this point is that I'm significantly less fond of
acoustic, symphonic instruments than of electrified instruments. That
_might_ be because of my video gaming habit and the tendencies of most
creators to stick with electrified music even once sound reproduction
improved to the point that you could put acoustic strings and horns ina
game soundtrack if you wanted.


<snip well-done music, though, except for the Queen, from QUADDIE'S era
of choice>
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quadibloc
2021-02-24 14:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Trust me, you are playing in /my/ sandbox here.
Oh, I don't doubt that. I was noting what was obvious enough to be
perceptible to me, not being particularly musically adept or
knowledgeable, so I was definitely not disputing your statement on
what is actually _there_.

John Savard

Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 03:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
No-o-o-o-o.

We're coming up on fifty years of marriage. He knows what I
like. That's why, when we moved into this basement flat that
gets no broadcast reception, he figured out how to get the Pi to
stream kdfc.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-19 21:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
For some reason I have an idea there may be
too many calories. :-)
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 22:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
For some reason I have an idea there may be
too many calories. :-)
In a batch file, or in hip-hop? I have the feeling, knowing
nothing about it, that dancing to hip-hop would burn up quite a
few calories. None in crontab or runkdfc, to the best of my
knowledge.

I think we're getting silly.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-02-20 03:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In a batch file, or in hip-hop?
I think it's a pun based on the similarity of the call letters KDFC to the
current trademark KFC for a company that makes fattening fried
chicken that once upon a time was seasoned with a secret recipe
of eleven herbs and spices.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-02-20 04:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In a batch file, or in hip-hop?
I think it's a pun based on the similarity of the call letters KDFC to the
current trademark KFC for a company that makes fattening fried
chicken that once upon a time was seasoned with a secret recipe
of eleven herbs and spices.
Certainly a KDF 9 doesn't have calories, another possibility for a pun.

Ages ago, there was a post on USENET which I reproduce here:

(begin quote)
From: ***@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: 48-bit computers
Date: 11 Mar 91 13:20:37 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute, Pittsburgh, PA
Post by Quadibloc
Also 48 is a nice number for packing all kinds of bytes and nibbles into,
since it has so many divisors. I spoze that's less important now that
the price of memory has gone down so much compared to 1964.
Indeed it was. Here is one list, from the KDF9 programming manual, p 24:

THE KDF9 WORD HAS 48 BITS ...
IT MAY BE USED AS...
Eight 6-Bit Alpha-Numeric Characters
One 48-Bit Fixed-Point Number
Two 24-Bit (Half length) Fixed-Point Numbers
Half of a 96-Bit (Double Length) Fixed-Point Number
One 48-Bit Floating-Point Number
Two 24-Bit (Half length) Floating-Point Numbers
Half of a 96-Bit (Double length) Floating-Point Number
Three 16-Bit (Fixed point) Integers
Six 8-Bit Instruction Syllables

An instruction was 1, 2 or 3 syllables; an address was 15 bits.
O, memory! We shall not see its like again.
(end quote)

It was so popular, songs were even sung about it. These words, by Tom
Anderson, David Appleton, and John Lloyd were meant to be sung to
the tune of _The British Grenadiers_:

Some talk of IBMs and some of CDCs
Of Honeywells and Burroughs, and such great names as these,
But of all the world's computers, there's none that is so fine
As the English Electric Leo Marconi Kay Dee Eff Nine!

Some talk of thirty-two bit words, and some of twenty-four
Of disks and drums and datacells, and megabytes of core,
But for those who've written usercode there's nothing can outshine
The subroutine jump nesting store of the Kay Dee Eff Nine!

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-02-21 03:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In a batch file, or in hip-hop?
I think it's a pun based on the similarity of the call letters KDFC to the
current trademark KFC for a company that makes fattening fried
chicken that once upon a time was seasoned with a secret recipe
of eleven herbs and spices.
Certainly a KDF 9 doesn't have calories, another possibility for a pun.
Aside from having a versatile 48-bit word, and the famous subroutine jump
nesting store, the KDF 9 does have a claim to fame.

One of the earliest ALGOL 60 implementations was written for it, and indeed
there's even a book from Academic Press which recounts the design of the
compiler.

As well, after the compiler was written, a benchmark program was written
originally on that computer, the famous Whetstone benchmark. Speaking of
puns, as this benchmark emphasized floating-point performance, when a
benchmark was created for testing integer performance of computers, its
name took inspiration from this, and it was called the Dhrystone benchmark.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-20 04:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In a batch file, or in hip-hop?
I think it's a pun based on the similarity of the call letters KDFC to the
current trademark KFC for a company that makes fattening fried
chicken that once upon a time was seasoned with a secret recipe
of eleven herbs and spices.
Oh. No, no chicken involved: K for a US radio station west of
the Mississippi, and D F C for the initials of the last names of
the three guys who founded the station back in 1948. One of the
many completely useless things I know; now if I could only
remember where I put the book I was reading this morning.

/search

Ed Davis, Herbert Florance, Bill Crocker.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-02-20 06:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Oh. No, no chicken involved: K for a US radio station west of
the Mississippi,
Yes, and W for one east of the Mississippi. I know there was no chicken
involved with the radio station or Hal's use of cron. But when someone said
"Too many calories", and you correctly noted that neither the radio station nor
hip-hop music has calories... I thought that he might have been making a joke
on how the call letters of the radio station were close to KFC, the name of a
company that sells a product which *does* have calories.

Maybe it would have been clearer if I hadn't snipped quite so much?

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-20 15:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Oh. No, no chicken involved: K for a US radio station west of
the Mississippi,
Yes, and W for one east of the Mississippi. I know there was no chicken
involved with the radio station or Hal's use of cron. But when someone said
"Too many calories", and you correctly noted that neither the radio station nor
hip-hop music has calories... I thought that he might have been making a joke
on how the call letters of the radio station were close to KFC, the name of a
company that sells a product which *does* have calories.
Maybe it would have been clearer if I hadn't snipped quite so much?
Nah, I saw the whole post and it still went whoosh over my head.
Don't feel bad about it.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-02-20 05:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Quadibloc
Thanks; saved to disk. Although the command to turn the radio on
if it's off is "runkdfc."
That is probably the name of a batch file that Hal wrote for you.
Or a hip-hop band Hal thinks Dorothy might like.
-Moriarty
A mash-up of Run-DMC & KMFDM: an almost perfect
instance of "music" Dorothy would not care for.

I doubt it would suit me. Cheese and chalk.
I bet one station in the complicated history of
those calls, KUSF,* would have played them.

* Sold by the University of San Francisco.
--
Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-19 01:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
`crontab -e` opens up your personal cron table in your default
editor.
Each non-blank line is either a comment starting with # or a set of fields
minute hour day-of-month month day-of-week command
3 7 * * 1-5 playradio
* means every, and Sunday is counted as both day 0 and day 7. The command
is the entire rest of the line, so anything you can write on a command line
can go there; it doesn't generally need any special quoting.
And that's most of cron.
Though if it's like when I worked with SCO UNIX,
the /root/ user is likely to have dozens of lines
in their crontab file, and instead of editing it "live",
taking a backup copy of it, then another, then
editing the second copy, maybe comparing it
against the first copy, and finally using that to
overwrite the "real" crontab file was safer.
You certainly wanted the option to change your
mind and cancel changes. I suppose that "no user
gets e-mail any more" isn't an issue inside a tiny
computer which is just being a radio for you.

And it would have to be UNIX text format.
I expect that UTF-8 may be allowed now, which
basically is just plain American ASCII except
when you type something foreign

Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-19 01:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
`crontab -e` opens up your personal cron table in your default
editor.
Each non-blank line is either a comment starting with # or a set of fields
minute hour day-of-month month day-of-week command
3 7 * * 1-5 playradio
* means every, and Sunday is counted as both day 0 and day 7. The command
is the entire rest of the line, so anything you can write on a command line
can go there; it doesn't generally need any special quoting.
And that's most of cron.
Though if it's like when I worked with SCO UNIX,
the /root/ user is likely to have dozens of lines
in their crontab file, and instead of editing it "live",
taking a backup copy of it, then another, then
editing the second copy, maybe comparing it
against the first copy, and finally using that to
overwrite the "real" crontab file was safer.
You certainly wanted the option to change your
mind and cancel changes. I suppose that "no user
gets e-mail any more" isn't an issue inside a tiny
computer which is just being a radio for you.
And it would have to be UNIX text format.
I expect that UTF-8 may be allowed now, which
basically is just plain American ASCII except
when you type something foreign
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
Well, Hal has always been the one that edits it. Also, it's
relatively short, with maybe two or three commands for each day
of the week, with those that aren't going to run this week
commented out. As, Weekday when school is keeping, turn on at
6:45 AM.* Saturday and weekdays when school isn't keeping, 10:00
AM. Sunday, 7 AM because kdfc has some special programming.

_____
*Currently, school is online, so we don't have to get the kid up,
hair brushed,** fed, dressed, and out the door to meet the school
bus at 7 AM; we only have to get him up, brushed, fed, dressed
enough that he'll look dressed online, and logged in at 8:30.)
**He could sit on his hair, if he wanted to; braided, it reaches
to the small of his back.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2021-02-19 17:01:00 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On the other hand, I have a Pi by my bedside that turns on at a
settable time (depending on what we have to do when we get up
[which on most weekends is nothing], which governs when we have
to wake up), and it streams kdfc.com. It does this by running
cron, which one of these days I must sit down and learn to
understand.
`crontab -e` opens up your personal cron table in your default
editor.
Each non-blank line is either a comment starting with # or a set of fields
minute hour day-of-month month day-of-week command
3 7 * * 1-5 playradio
* means every, and Sunday is counted as both day 0 and day 7. The command
is the entire rest of the line, so anything you can write on a command line
can go there; it doesn't generally need any special quoting.
And that's most of cron.
Though if it's like when I worked with SCO UNIX,
the /root/ user is likely to have dozens of lines
in their crontab file, and instead of editing it "live",
taking a backup copy of it, then another, then
editing the second copy, maybe comparing it
against the first copy, and finally using that to
overwrite the "real" crontab file was safer.
You certainly wanted the option to change your
mind and cancel changes. I suppose that "no user
gets e-mail any more" isn't an issue inside a tiny
computer which is just being a radio for you.
And it would have to be UNIX text format.
I expect that UTF-8 may be allowed now, which
basically is just plain American ASCII except
when you type something foreign
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
Rebooting, as I rediscovered recently, is the solution to a whole
/lot/ of problems.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Andy Leighton
2021-02-20 12:47:23 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-02-20 13:55:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker! :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-02-20 14:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions.  Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker!  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Maybe this works better with the right command:
kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron | awk '{print $1}'`

Although maybe that was because kre or someone hacked cron??? BSD 4.0
manuals aren't in the currently accessible pile. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-02-20 19:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
                   Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions.  Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker!  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron | awk '{print $1}'`
I think this has some possibility of catching the 'grep' pid, since
'grep cron' has 'cron' in it. I would throw in a grep -v grep before
the awk..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-02-21 03:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
                   Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions.  Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker!  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron | awk '{print $1}'`
I think this has some possibility of catching the 'grep' pid, since
'grep cron' has 'cron' in it. I would throw in a grep -v grep before
the awk..
It shouldn't matter, by the time that awk has spat out the PIDs grep
should have exited, and if it hasn't - well, why has your system got
/that/ many processes with cron in the name running?

Yes, it could protect itself a lot better, but back in the day, on an
11/780, even with the clever melbtty driver and a Gandalf PACX that had
been tricked into running four times as many lines as it supposedly
could, there wouldn't be *that* many processes running.

And you weren't fiddling with your crontab very often, anyway.

Only "root" had a crontab too, IIRC.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-20 15:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker! :-)
Oh dear. I forget what version of BSD UNIX I learned (some of)
back in the day when my kids were small and I had to get a job
(to pay for day care so I wouldn't go insane); but I never used
cron back then either, so I can't comment on its use.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Andy Leighton
2021-02-20 20:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:00 -0800 (PST),
Post by Robert Carnegie
Also, after editing the file, you had to nudge the
corn program to /notice/ that the file was changed,
or it would continue to run itself on previous
instructions. Rebooting would do it, though,
!but wasn't "the" way.
crontab -e should install the changes.
Recent crons recognise when crontabs are updated, but for those of us
who started on BSD 4.0, "kill -1 `ps ax | grep cron`" was the kicker! :-)
That was before me. I started with BSD 4.2 on a Vax 11/730 and crontab -e
installed the changes way back then.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Robert Woodward
2021-02-17 06:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
About a decade ago, I encountered a posting somewhere of somebody
emulating a Cray-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1) with some
microcomputers chips.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2021-02-17 10:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
About a decade ago, I encountered a posting somewhere of somebody
emulating a Cray-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1) with some
microcomputers chips.
https://www.chrisfenton.com/homebrew-cray-1a/ - it's an interesting
story of computer archaeology and data recovery the hard way from very
old systems.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't
-- Bjarne Stroustrup
J. Clarke
2021-02-17 12:42:19 UTC
Permalink
On 17 Feb 2021 10:55:35 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
About a decade ago, I encountered a posting somewhere of somebody
emulating a Cray-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1) with some
microcomputers chips.
https://www.chrisfenton.com/homebrew-cray-1a/ - it's an interesting
story of computer archaeology and data recovery the hard way from very
old systems.
Thanks for posting that. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is what Mad
Skillz lookes like.
pete...@gmail.com
2021-02-17 15:16:20 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 1:18:04 AM UTC-5, Robert Woodward wrote:
[...]
Post by Robert Woodward
About a decade ago, I encountered a posting somewhere of somebody
emulating a Cray-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1) with some
microcomputers chips.
A while back, I saw a chart that implied that an iPad2 had roughly the same
FP performance as a Cray 1.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2021-02-19 23:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
I ran IBM MVS on a IBM PC/AT with a 370 board in 1988 ? 1987 ?. We had
it peered to our three 3090s for a while. Was slow but worked if your
program required less than the 6 MB of ram (1.5 Mwords on MVS). They
tried to get me off the engineering 3090 since I was the principal user
but could not since it was only a 2 or 3 mips machine and I needed the
75 ??? mips of the 3090. I was running linear optimization software of
our power plant economic dispatch over the next 12 months.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2021-02-19 23:39:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:25:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
I ran IBM MVS on a IBM PC/AT with a 370 board in 1988 ? 1987 ?. We had
it peered to our three 3090s for a while. Was slow but worked if your
program required less than the 6 MB of ram (1.5 Mwords on MVS). They
tried to get me off the engineering 3090 since I was the principal user
but could not since it was only a 2 or 3 mips machine and I needed the
75 ??? mips of the 3090. I was running linear optimization software of
our power plant economic dispatch over the next 12 months.
FWIW, the pi gives about 4.5 MIPS on Z/OS. I suspect it will be
happier with MVS.
Lynn McGuire
2021-02-20 00:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:25:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
I ran IBM MVS on a IBM PC/AT with a 370 board in 1988 ? 1987 ?. We had
it peered to our three 3090s for a while. Was slow but worked if your
program required less than the 6 MB of ram (1.5 Mwords on MVS). They
tried to get me off the engineering 3090 since I was the principal user
but could not since it was only a 2 or 3 mips machine and I needed the
75 ??? mips of the 3090. I was running linear optimization software of
our power plant economic dispatch over the next 12 months.
FWIW, the pi gives about 4.5 MIPS on Z/OS. I suspect it will be
happier with MVS.
That IBM AT/370 double socket full length board cost $14,000 back then.
The pi is $40 ???

The first board had the massive 370 cpu emulator and support chips on
it. No cpu fan. The second board had 64K ??? ram chips soldered to it,
front and back.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2021-02-20 01:38:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 18:10:07 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:25:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought it a
good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail, so it
wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be experts
back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever do what a
mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't great
but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
I ran IBM MVS on a IBM PC/AT with a 370 board in 1988 ? 1987 ?. We had
it peered to our three 3090s for a while. Was slow but worked if your
program required less than the 6 MB of ram (1.5 Mwords on MVS). They
tried to get me off the engineering 3090 since I was the principal user
but could not since it was only a 2 or 3 mips machine and I needed the
75 ??? mips of the 3090. I was running linear optimization software of
our power plant economic dispatch over the next 12 months.
FWIW, the pi gives about 4.5 MIPS on Z/OS. I suspect it will be
happier with MVS.
That IBM AT/370 double socket full length board cost $14,000 back then.
The pi is $40 ???
The first board had the massive 370 cpu emulator and support chips on
it. No cpu fan. The second board had 64K ??? ram chips soldered to it,
front and back.
I've got it on a pi 4B 4GB so that's $55.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-02-23 12:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 18:10:07 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:25:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Joel Polowin
In article
Post by Quadibloc
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months,
With a title like that, I was thinking that David Weber was its author,
Nope, nor yet Melissa Scott.
FWIW, I re-read it a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I thought
it a good example of not explaining the tech in too much detail,
so it wouldn't be rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments.
Thank you, kind sir. The reason I didn't get technical about the
tech is that I am a language person and don't do numbers very
well. I have, however, a (retired*) computer engineer for a
husband who read the manuscript chapter by chapter and was quick
to say, "No, you can't do that, even ~twenty years from now," or
"Yeah, you can do that, just keep your terminology fuzzy."
It still got rendered obsolete/incorrect by real-world
developments, chiefly in the realm of how much storage space a
computer would require ... and have. I fudged out the numbers
for the revised version on my webpage.
Just a note but I remember people who fancied themselves to be
experts back in the '80s saying that no microcomputer could ever
do what a mainframe does.
Well, at the moment one of my raspberry pies is running a recent
release of IBM's mainframe operating system. Performance isn't
great but it's still doing better than the first mainframe I
worked with.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
_____
*Now he doesn't program for a living, he programs for fun on
Raspberry Pis.
I ran IBM MVS on a IBM PC/AT with a 370 board in 1988 ? 1987 ?. We
had it peered to our three 3090s for a while. Was slow but worked
if your program required less than the 6 MB of ram (1.5 Mwords on
MVS). They tried to get me off the engineering 3090 since I was
the principal user but could not since it was only a 2 or 3 mips
machine and I needed the 75 ??? mips of the 3090. I was running
linear optimization software of our power plant economic dispatch
over the next 12 months.
FWIW, the pi gives about 4.5 MIPS on Z/OS. I suspect it will be
happier with MVS.
That IBM AT/370 double socket full length board cost $14,000 back then.
The pi is $40 ???
The first board had the massive 370 cpu emulator and support chips on
it. No cpu fan. The second board had 64K ??? ram chips soldered to
it, front and back.
I've got it on a pi 4B 4GB so that's $55.
xpost & FU to AFC.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Scott Lurndal
2021-02-16 18:06:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months, and somebody saying, "Well, why didn't you post on Baen's
Bar and talk about it and get everybody interested in it?"
Since I had never heard of Baen's Bar before that very day, I
said the equivalent of "Huh? What?"
And since _APoH_ got published in 1998 (by DAW), that was a very
long time ago, and I'm mildly surprised to read that the Bar
was still around.
For some value of around. It's populated by a bunch of trump
supporters last I checked, mostly following ringo and kratman
into the toilet.

While they do have a NNTP interface, they top-post and
mime-post in HTML.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 18:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months, and somebody saying, "Well, why didn't you post on Baen's
Bar and talk about it and get everybody interested in it?"
Since I had never heard of Baen's Bar before that very day, I
said the equivalent of "Huh? What?"
And since _APoH_ got published in 1998 (by DAW), that was a very
long time ago, and I'm mildly surprised to read that the Bar
was still around.
For some value of around. It's populated by a bunch of trump
supporters last I checked, mostly following ringo and kratman
into the toilet.
While they do have a NNTP interface, they top-post and
mime-post in HTML.
Dear me, again. Obviously I haven't missed anything.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Joy Beeson
2021-02-20 05:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
For some value of around. It's populated by a bunch of trump
supporters last I checked, mostly following ringo and kratman
into the toilet.
While they do have a NNTP interface, they top-post and
mime-post in HTML.
Dear me, again. Obviously I haven't missed anything.
I read two crit groups and the general-conversation group on Baen's
Bar and find no signs of fascists. Conversations suggest that forums
called "flames" and "politics" have some disagreeable people in them;
I haven't gone there to check.

The web forum is primary; this is translated into NNTP and a mailing
list. There were a lot of bugs in the translation program when I
joined, but now most messages make it through and it's rare to read
one that consists only of a kilobyte number in a rectangle. But
special characters tend to vanish or be replaced by nonsense.

Once you are in, it works just like Usenet, but you have to sign up on
the Web forum and I've long since forgotten how to go there.

Top-posting takes some getting used to, and some of the members
complain, but there was a good reason for it in the forgotten ancient
past and now there is too much inertia to change. The only problem,
really, is remembering that one is, metaphorically speaking, driving
in England and not the US. It does eliminate the possibility of
knowing what the poster is responding to, but most people are aware of
that when they write.

Tangent:

Most web forums are incompatible with my wetware; about the only one I
read is How to Make Sewing Patterns, and then only when I get an
e-mail that there is a new post.

I also read the comments on most of my web comics. The lack of proper
threading is often very annoying, a conversation can't last more than
one day, and one comic's comment section is direly in need of a twit
filter. But at least the truncation of the conversations keeps the
twit from starting a long and rancorous thread.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Quadibloc
2021-02-16 19:13:34 UTC
Permalink
For some value of around. It's populated by a bunch of trump
supporters last I checked, mostly following ringo and kratman
into the toilet.
Which is why someone claiming we would have been better off only
temporarily if Trump was re-elected recieved only supportive replies,
including ones suggesting wiping out the base of Democratic support
by rendering America's major cities uninhabitable.

Cities are not only where the Left lives, they're where institutions of
higher learning and scientific research are located. But then, handing the
world over to Russia and China is perhaps not much of a concern to a
certain stripe of fanatic.

John Savard
Robert Woodward
2021-02-17 06:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
Dear me. I can remember way back when, me grousing about how
Baen sat on _A Point of Honor_ for something like fourteen
months, and somebody saying, "Well, why didn't you post on Baen's
Bar and talk about it and get everybody interested in it?"
Since I had never heard of Baen's Bar before that very day, I
said the equivalent of "Huh? What?"
And since _APoH_ got published in 1998 (by DAW), that was a very
long time ago, and I'm mildly surprised to read that the Bar
was still around.
For some value of around. It's populated by a bunch of trump
supporters last I checked, mostly following ringo and kratman
into the toilet.
The 1632 group of forums has little overlap with the crazies on the
"Politics" forum and, from what I can tell, are usually focused on that
shared universe.
Post by Scott Lurndal
While they do have a NNTP interface, they top-post and
mime-post in HTML.
And they don't snip either!
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
J. Clarke
2021-02-16 16:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 17:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
Why then, it's obvious that we are not there.

("yet" optional.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Alan Baker
2021-02-17 05:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.

Got it.
Quadibloc
2021-02-17 10:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.
Got it.
I'm sorry, didn't you see that he was being sarcastic? His sarcasm was aimed
at hypocrisy: as Baen's Bar was established by people strongly dedicated to
free expression... they thought they could get away without restrictions. They are
now learning they're mistaken.

John Savard
Alan Baker
2021-02-17 17:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.
Got it.
I'm sorry, didn't you see that he was being sarcastic? His sarcasm was aimed
at hypocrisy: as Baen's Bar was established by people strongly dedicated to
free expression... they thought they could get away without restrictions. They are
now learning they're mistaken.
I don't know Baen's Bar, and neither does Clarke.

But I got his sarcasm...

...I just disagree with the conclusion that drove it.
Titus G
2021-02-17 19:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.
If people offer their stuff to the general public, then they lose
control of that stuff and can only exert control if their stuff is being
misused. Otherwise a provider of stuff could refuse to sell it to women
or black skinned or Joose or whatever.
So the issue is whether the public forum was being misused and that
requires subjective judgement. Yours might differ from J. Clarkes.
Post by Alan Baker
Got it.
Alan Baker
2021-02-17 20:28:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.
If people offer their stuff to the general public, then they lose
control of that stuff and can only exert control if their stuff is being
misused. Otherwise a provider of stuff could refuse to sell it to women
or black skinned or Joose or whatever.
So the issue is whether the public forum was being misused and that
requires subjective judgement. Yours might differ from J. Clarkes.
And neither of our judgements counts for anything.

The only one that matters is what the owners judgement is.
Titus G
2021-02-18 00:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by James Nicoll
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
But there's no censorship in the Brave New World.
So you believe people should have no right to control who uses their stuff.
If people offer their stuff to the general public, then they lose
control of that stuff and can only exert control if their stuff is being
misused. Otherwise a provider of stuff could refuse to sell it to Trump
supporters or other minorities.

<grin> That is what I should have said originally.
Post by Titus G
If people offer their stuff to the general public, then they lose
control of that stuff and can only exert control if their stuff is being
misused. Otherwise a provider of stuff could refuse to sell it to women
or black skinned or Joose or whatever.
So the issue is whether the public forum was being misused and that
requires subjective judgement. Yours might differ from J. Clarkes.
Post by Alan Baker
Got it.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2021-02-16 16:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
It's amazing how vitriolic the left and centre are, while the nazis are
so calm and reasonable.

Oh, wait.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Who died and made _you_ Zod?"
-- Sea Wasp, rasfw
Moriarty
2021-02-16 20:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-16 21:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe Nazi Tom
Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent extremists and white
supremacy nutjobs.
I continue to be relieved that I never got onto that site, even
twenty-odd years ago when apparently it was not so crazy.

(Nobody ever told me *how* to get onto the site... but then, I
never asked.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Woodward
2021-02-17 06:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe Nazi Tom
Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent extremists and white
supremacy nutjobs.
I continue to be relieved that I never got onto that site, even
twenty-odd years ago when apparently it was not so crazy.
(Nobody ever told me *how* to get onto the site... but then, I
never asked.)
Only 3 (if IIRC) were crazy (especially "Politics", also Kratman's only
forum, and one called "Blazes" which the flamewars were to be
transferred to). Unfortunately, "Politics" has been about half the
entire message load in recent years).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Wolffan
2021-02-16 23:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe Nazi Tom
Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent extremists and white
supremacy nutjobs.
-Moriarty
he is NOT ax’wannabe’ Nazi. Except that with him, it’s Moooosleeems,
not Joooose. Or maybe _both_ Mooooleeems _and Joooose, I did ’t look that
closely in my one only encounter with his work, wherein he had a Jewish
Waffen-SS unit. I stopped reading about there. I go way out of my way to
avoid the like of him. I stopped reading Ringo after he revealed that Moslems
are, one and all, dirty child-molesting cowardly terrorists. Or something. I
stopped reading there, too.
Quadibloc
2021-02-17 02:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe
Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent
extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.
Even if I would be inclined to be more polite and respectful towards
the published author Tom Kratman... I share your level of astonishment
in this regard.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-02-17 02:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Moriarty
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe
Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent
extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.
Even if I would be inclined to be more polite and respectful towards
the published author Tom Kratman... I share your level of astonishment
in this regard.
Actually, even leaving Tom Kratman out of this, I am not in the least
surprised that this is what has happened to a _Baen Books_ forum.

*Not* because I think Baen Books condones extremism or racism or
what-have-you, however, I will hasten to add. No; the fact that they're
conservative or moderately right-leaning is quite sufficient for me not
to be surprised at what has happened. Why?

Because of the *context*. Mil-SF from Baen Books appeals to a lot of
people who aren't "wacko nutjobs" or whatever. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't appeal to them *as well*.

And given what's happened to the Republican Party, given what's
happened to the political climate in the states from which Donald
Trump has derived support... there appears to be a plentiful supply
of wacko nutjobs out there. Enough to turn Baen's Bar into a sympathetic
milieu for their views.

Jerry Pournelle might be turning over in his grave at what's going on
in this regard - but for all I know, had he lived, he might instead have
ended up also being radicalized.

John Savard
pete...@gmail.com
2021-02-17 02:38:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Moriarty
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe
Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent
extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.
Even if I would be inclined to be more polite and respectful towards
the published author Tom Kratman... I share your level of astonishment
in this regard.
Actually, even leaving Tom Kratman out of this, I am not in the least
surprised that this is what has happened to a _Baen Books_ forum.
*Not* because I think Baen Books condones extremism or racism or
what-have-you, however, I will hasten to add. No; the fact that they're
conservative or moderately right-leaning is quite sufficient for me not
to be surprised at what has happened. Why?
Because of the *context*. Mil-SF from Baen Books appeals to a lot of
people who aren't "wacko nutjobs" or whatever. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't appeal to them *as well*.
And given what's happened to the Republican Party, given what's
happened to the political climate in the states from which Donald
Trump has derived support... there appears to be a plentiful supply
of wacko nutjobs out there. Enough to turn Baen's Bar into a sympathetic
milieu for their views.
Jerry Pournelle might be turning over in his grave at what's going on
in this regard - but for all I know, had he lived, he might instead have
ended up also being radicalized.
John Savard
Since we've only got conflicting second hand partisan accounts of what was
being said on the site, I, at least am going to withhold further judgement
until I have better information.

Pt
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-17 10:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Moriarty
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe
Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent
extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.
Even if I would be inclined to be more polite and respectful towards
the published author Tom Kratman... I share your level of astonishment
in this regard.
Actually, even leaving Tom Kratman out of this, I am not in the least
surprised that this is what has happened to a _Baen Books_ forum.
*Not* because I think Baen Books condones extremism or racism or
what-have-you, however, I will hasten to add. No; the fact that they're
conservative or moderately right-leaning is quite sufficient for me not
to be surprised at what has happened. Why?
Because of the *context*. Mil-SF from Baen Books appeals to a lot of
people who aren't "wacko nutjobs" or whatever. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't appeal to them *as well*.
And given what's happened to the Republican Party, given what's
happened to the political climate in the states from which Donald
Trump has derived support... there appears to be a plentiful supply
of wacko nutjobs out there. Enough to turn Baen's Bar into a sympathetic
milieu for their views.
Jerry Pournelle might be turning over in his grave at what's going on
in this regard - but for all I know, had he lived, he might instead have
ended up also being radicalized.
John Savard
Since we've only got conflicting second hand partisan accounts of what was
being said on the site, I, at least am going to withhold further judgement
until I have better information.
Well, we get people posting Trumpy bullshit /here/.

Their mission, sometimes from passion, sometimes
just for money, is to post it /everywhere/.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-02-17 04:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Moriarty
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe
Nazi Tom Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent
extremists and white supremacy nutjobs.
Even if I would be inclined to be more polite and respectful towards
the published author Tom Kratman... I share your level of astonishment
in this regard.
By Gad, Sir, there are and have been many published authors in
this world who deserve no respect, and if one is stressed, no
politeness either.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Woodward
2021-02-17 06:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by James Nicoll
Following Jason Sanford's report yesterday, Baen Publisher Toni
Weisskopf puts Baen's Bar on hiatus.
file770.com/weisskopf-announces-hiatus-for-baens-bar/
Meanwhile, Sanford reports harassment and death threats following
the publishing of his report.
I'm shocked - shocked I tell you! - that a forum where wannabe Nazi Tom
Krapman is a moderator is infested with violent extremists and white
supremacy nutjobs.
He has one of the author specific forums (there are close to 20), but I
don't know if he is actually the moderator of it (BTW, all of the author
specific forums were less active in 2020 then they were 10 years
earlier).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
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