Discussion:
[OT] September 18, 2021
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Quadibloc
2021-09-09 20:57:09 UTC
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Perhaps this day will be just another day.

Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.



Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that date - and
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of the events
of January 6.

But history does not repeat itself exactly.

1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.

2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.

3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.

So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.

But I would still keep that date in mind.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-09 21:24:33 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that date - and
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of the events
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
But I would still keep that date in mind.
Okay, I'll bite: why September 18? I did a search on the date
and various thing happened on that date in various years, but
nothing that seems to be connected with Trumpians.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2021-09-09 22:32:11 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Okay, I'll bite: why September 18?
I have no idea, but I had thought the date was chosen for logistical
reasons rather than symbolic ones.

John Savard
Charles Packer
2021-09-10 07:58:01 UTC
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Okay, I'll bite: why September 18? I did a search on the date and
various thing happened on that date in various years, but nothing that
seems to be connected with Trumpians.
And it's a full two days before the equinox.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-10 14:25:04 UTC
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Post by Charles Packer
Okay, I'll bite: why September 18? I did a search on the date and
various thing happened on that date in various years, but nothing that
seems to be connected with Trumpians.
And it's a full two days before the equinox.
Which the (assumed) rioters probably don't know anyway.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2021-09-10 16:01:48 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that date - and
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of the events
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
But I would still keep that date in mind.
Okay, I'll bite: why September 18? I did a search on the date
and various thing happened on that date in various years, but
nothing that seems to be connected with Trumpians.
It's a week after September 11th (so no conflict with that date), and
September 11th is the Saturday after September 6th (which, in any
case, was Labor Day).

So, as another has said, logistics: it's the first open Saturday 8
months after 1/6.

Besides, they probably expect the Arizona Comedic Relief Report to
have evicted Biden by that time. Or something.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-09 23:19:59 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that date - and
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of the events
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
But I would still keep that date in mind.
John Savard
I think dropwalls this time, to be on the safe side.
<https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120203>

(Do be on the safe side.)
J. Clarke
2021-09-10 04:20:44 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that date - and
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of the events
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
Post by Quadibloc
But I would still keep that date in mind.
Quadibloc
2021-09-10 04:28:30 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
While that's true enough, leaning conservative isn't the same as buying
into QAnon and similar garbage. Remember that the left wing of the
Democratic Party is unhappy with Biden - and Harris - because they're
both strongly against "defunding" the police.

If there _were_ an issue that put nearly all conservatives on the same side,
this would be a concern. But while Trump does have a lot of support, and
his supporters are indeed located within the conservative portion of the
country's people... I suspect Trump support is not too high in the military.

Or in the Washington D. C. Capitol Police, even if the same may not be true
of other police departments.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-10 16:58:22 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Alan Baker
2021-09-10 17:27:19 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
But it is the GOP that is courting the nutters.
Paul S Person
2021-09-11 15:43:02 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:27:19 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
But it is the GOP that is courting the nutters.
*cough cough* Bernie and friends.

Nope, not just the GOP.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Chrysi Cat
2021-09-11 16:13:11 UTC
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Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:27:19 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
But it is the GOP that is courting the nutters.
*cough cough* Bernie and friends.
Not all of them, but enough, yes.

Joe Rogan probably voted for Trump in the general but I think he
genuinely would have continued to support Bernie if he'd been a choice
there instead of Biden.

And then he went full ivermectin last week.
Post by Paul S Person
Nope, not just the GOP.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Alan Baker
2021-09-11 19:04:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:27:19 -0700, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
But it is the GOP that is courting the nutters.
*cough cough* Bernie and friends.
Nope, not just the GOP.
OK.

Just *MOSTLY* the GOP.
Quadibloc
2021-09-11 19:57:47 UTC
Reply
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Post by Paul S Person
*cough cough* Bernie and friends.
Bernie Sanders certainly has radical political views that I don't agree with.

However, he doesn't deny *scientific facts* like global warming, or the
seriousness of the novel coronavirus. He doesn't incite violence based on
lies about nonexistent election fraud.

The Democrats do have an extreme left wing, with Bernie Sanders,
Alexandria Occasio-Cortez, and Ilhan Omar among others. They're a
significant force in the party, but not dominant.

On the other hand, the Republican Party now has basically driven out
all opposition within its ranks to a faction which _is_ correctly and
accurately described as deranged.

There just is no sensible conservative voice in American politics. In a
process that began with Nixon, but which had not reached this point
under Reagan or Bush, the Republican parties both of the nation and apparently
most of the states have been hijacked by frankly anti-democratic forces,
happy to seize and hold control of governments by voter suppression and
gerrymandering.

I remember reading a column once - but I don't recall much in the way of
the details - that talked about Mike Pence as Trump's 'life insurance policy',
in the sense that Mike Pence's history showed that while he wasn't a populist
like Trump, he still favored radical right policies which would be even worse.

From today's perspective, after January 6, that's hard to believe. Aside from
his courage on that day, I learned about how several of his children served
their country in the armed forces when he gave his speech on the way out.
So even if he would also be a poor choice for President for whatever reason,
and even if I can't forget that as Vice President, he did, of course, enable
Trump, I can't help but have some positive feelings in his direction.

Trump isn't "literally Hitler". Even if his family changed their name from Drumpf
to Trump, just as Hiedler was changed to Hitler, in an eerie coincidence. He
isn't even literally Mussolini, although making the United States a fascist second
fiddle to Putin does have a certain resemblance. But this seems more like history
repeating itself in the Leninist sense: compared to the tragedy of Hitler, Putin is
merely a farce, and this is also how Trump compares to Mussolini.

But that the Republican Party is now under the control of people a significant
proportion of whom are prepared to destroy democracy in the United States
of America, and turn it into a dictatorship like Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil, appears
to me to be an obvious fact. It is _not_ politics as usual any longer.

The American people need to wake up and realize this, and boot the Republicans
out into the wilderness, so that a healthy and patriotic alternative to the
Democrats can emerge to restore the balance the American political system
had enjoyed.

Unfortunately, though, the Republican Party is not so much the disease as a
symptom. The radicalism that has taken over the Republican Party appears to
be shared by a significant chunk of the electorate. Not, though, everyone who
voted for Trump, not even in 2020; having only two parties to choose from
distorts our view of the electorate.

But the party is being driven by its base among the people. And the tabloid
press - not that long ago, I saw in a Canadian supermarket a tabloid referring
to "Party Animal Obama" as "Public Enemy No. 1"... look guys, what you're
smoking may be legal in Canada, but it isn't in the U.S., even if some states seem
to think they can overrule Federal law - as well as certain wealthy individuals, and
organizations like QAnon have been doing their part to sow confusion.

The politics of hate and fear are being used in the United States by sinister
forces seeking power. That is what is unfolding before our eyes.

The other two major nuclear powers are Russia and China. If the United
States falls, liberty will soon be but a fading memory on our world. Which,
as far as we know, may be the only one inhabited by thinking beings in
the whole cosmos, even if that seems unlikely to be the actual fact.

I cannot express just how unhappy I am with this turn of events.

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-11 21:09:21 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
I remember reading a column once - but I don't recall much in the way of
the details - that talked about Mike Pence as Trump's 'life insurance policy',
in the sense that Mike Pence's history showed that while he wasn't a populist
like Trump, he still favored radical right policies which would be even worse.
I don't remember that one, but there was a lot of talk back in
the day, describing Dick Cheney as W's life insurance policy.
Post by Quadibloc
From today's perspective, after January 6, that's hard to believe. Aside from
his courage on that day, ....
Yes. When it came right down to it, he fulfilled his oath to
carry out the terms of the Constitution.
Post by Quadibloc
Trump isn't "literally Hitler". Even if his family changed their name from Drumpf
to Trump, just as Hiedler was changed to Hitler...
It was Hitler's *grandfather* whose name was variously Hiedler
and Hitler.

I can also tell you about "Schicklgruber" if you like.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-11 21:29:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
I remember reading a column once - but I don't recall much in the way of
the details - that talked about Mike Pence as Trump's 'life insurance policy',
in the sense that Mike Pence's history showed that while he wasn't a populist
like Trump, he still favored radical right policies which would be even worse.
I don't remember that one, but there was a lot of talk back in
the day, describing Dick Cheney as W's life insurance policy.
In theory they are /all/ picked with that in mind.
But in practice Dick Cheney /was/ in charge.
W just did the showbusiness part of the job.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
From today's perspective, after January 6, that's hard to believe. Aside from
his courage on that day, ....
Yes. When it came right down to it, he fulfilled his oath to
carry out the terms of the Constitution.
Post by Quadibloc
Trump isn't "literally Hitler". Even if his family changed their name from Drumpf
to Trump, just as Hiedler was changed to Hitler...
It was Hitler's *grandfather* whose name was variously Hiedler
and Hitler.
I can also tell you about "Schicklgruber" if you like.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
James Nicoll
2021-09-12 00:28:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't remember that one, but there was a lot of talk back in
the day, describing Dick Cheney as W's life insurance policy.
In theory they are /all/ picked with that in mind.
A number of VPs were tapped because it was seen as a great
to kneecap an otherwise troublesome politician. To quote
E. L. Godkin, editor of the Nation, on the matter of Chester A.
Arthur becoming VP:"There is no place in which his powers of mischief
will be so small as in the Vice Presidency". Godkin did acknowledge
that Arthur could become President if Garfield should somehow die in
office but dismissed that as very unlikely.

As I recall, a similar chain of logic inspired the nomination of
Theodore Roosevelt as William McKinley's VP.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
William Hyde
2021-09-12 21:15:44 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't remember that one, but there was a lot of talk back in
the day, describing Dick Cheney as W's life insurance policy.
In theory they are /all/ picked with that in mind.
A number of VPs were tapped because it was seen as a great
to kneecap an otherwise troublesome politician. To quote
E. L. Godkin, editor of the Nation, on the matter of Chester A.
Arthur becoming VP:"There is no place in which his powers of mischief
will be so small as in the Vice Presidency". Godkin did acknowledge
that Arthur could become President if Garfield should somehow die in
office but dismissed that as very unlikely.
As I recall, a similar chain of logic inspired the nomination of
Theodore Roosevelt as William McKinley's VP.
Churchill was at least twice brought into cabinet as it was politically too dangerous to leave him out. In 1917 he destroyed the government side in a closed session debate on munitions, with Lloyd George seeking him out immediately after the debate and offering him the ministry. In 1923, though C had run as an independent, the conservative leader, Baldwin, offered him the chancellorship. Churchill asked "Of the Duchy?" (a minor post , often
a sinecure) whereupon Baldwin clarified "of the exchequer", the second most important post in the government.

Or as LBJ put it, "I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, instead of outside pissing in".

At least Churchill got a real job.

William Hyde
Kevrob
2021-09-13 04:42:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't remember that one, but there was a lot of talk back in
the day, describing Dick Cheney as W's life insurance policy.
In theory they are /all/ picked with that in mind.
A number of VPs were tapped because it was seen as a great
to kneecap an otherwise troublesome politician. To quote
E. L. Godkin, editor of the Nation, on the matter of Chester A.
Arthur becoming VP:"There is no place in which his powers of mischief
will be so small as in the Vice Presidency". Godkin did acknowledge
that Arthur could become President if Garfield should somehow die in
office but dismissed that as very unlikely.
As I recall, a similar chain of logic inspired the nomination of
Theodore Roosevelt as William McKinley's VP.
Churchill was at least twice brought into cabinet as it was politically too dangerous to leave him out. In 1917 he destroyed the government side in a closed session debate on munitions, with Lloyd George seeking him out immediately after the debate and offering him the ministry. In 1923, though C had run as an independent, the conservative leader, Baldwin, offered him the chancellorship. Churchill asked "Of the Duchy?" (a minor post , often
a sinecure) whereupon Baldwin clarified "of the exchequer", the second most important post in the government.
Or as LBJ put it, "I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, instead of outside pissing in".
At least Churchill got a real job.
Traditionally, VPs can be in the tent or outside. I believe they are
issued the John Nance Garner Memorial Bucket for their micturations.
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-09-11 23:22:38 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can also tell you about "Schicklgruber" if you like.
Oh, I remember _that_ part, but as far as I know there is no
Trump parallel available.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-09-11 23:26:41 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
It was Hitler's *grandfather* whose name was variously Hiedler
and Hitler.
In the case of Donald Trump, the name change goes even further
back - apparently to around the time of the Thirty Years War, even
though one book had, apparently erroneously, claimed that Trump's
grandfather was called Drumpf at one time.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-09-10 22:20:19 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
OTOH, a certain percentage of cops seem to like to commit mayhem for
no apparent reason, and the others just stand around and watch--while
they normally pick as their victims those least likely to come back
with a high powered legal team and take their crummy jobs and pensions
away, if they actually thought they could get away with committing
mayhem on a bunch of politicians . . .
Paul S Person
2021-09-11 15:44:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:20:44 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Perhaps this day will be just another day.
Unlike, say, January 6, 2021. However, at least one commenter on YouTube
doesn't think so.
http://youtu.be/eB-WVPkRBgQ
Apparently, someone involved with the Trump campaign has said that there
will be a huge rally of Trump supporters in Washington D.C. on that
date - and
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
the commentator is interpreting that as an incitement to a repeat of
the events
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
of January 6.
But history does not repeat itself exactly.
1) There isn't anything in particular being done by Congress that anyone
might wish to stop on that date.
2) I can think of nothing better calculated to shore up Democratic support
during the forthcoming November mid-term elections than another
attempt to violently overthrow the government condoned by Republicans.
3) The President isn't going to tell the National Guard to stay away, and
the Capitol Police aren't going to fail to take any demonstrators seriously
because they're white this time.
So it's entirely possible that hardly anyone will show up, or that the
demonstration, such as it is, will actually be peaceful.
Or this time there will be enough cops and soldiers to successfully
storm the Capitol. Remember that cops and soldiers lean conservative.
But to what end? There won't be anybody there -- IIRC, Congress is (or
will be) in recess!
And, as others have pointed out, you need to distinguish between
"conservative" and "nutter".
So you do. There are conservatives who aren't nutters, and Cat
knows, nutters who are not conservatives. But the boundary
between them is fuzzy.
I do distinguish between them, but perhaps I wasn't entirely clear.

And there are nutters on /all/ sides.

A world filled with nutters. Just what I needed at my age.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
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