Discussion:
George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
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a425couple
2021-09-03 15:08:41 UTC
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George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

This from the liberal Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty
How long can a democracy maintain emergency restrictions and
still call itself a free country?

By Conor Friedersdorf

In a bid to keep the coronavirus out of the country, Australia’s federal
and state governments imposed draconian restrictions on its citizens.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison knows that the burden is too heavy. “This
is not a sustainable way to live in this country,” he recently declared.
One prominent civil libertarian summed up the rules by lamenting, “We’ve
never seen anything like this in our lifetimes.”

Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies, Australia has become a hermit
continent. How long can a country maintain emergency restrictions on its
citizens’ lives while still calling itself a liberal democracy?

Australia has been testing the limits.

Before 2020, the idea of Australia all but forbidding its citizens from
leaving the country, a restriction associated with Communist regimes,
was unthinkable. Today, it is a widely accepted policy. “Australia’s
borders are currently closed and international travel from Australia
remains strictly controlled to help prevent the spread of COVID-19,” a
government website declares. “International travel from Australia is
only available if you are exempt or you have been granted an individual
exemption.”

-----

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And
the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states,
developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free
world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”

Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian
should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the
home-based quarantine app.”

Proud, proud Australians.

(And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
sports car races, and do travel around.)
Kevrob
2021-09-03 18:31:08 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,
Ha...{repeats}
[snip]
This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.
--
If one gets permission to travel, what is the document for that called?
A "ticket of leave," perhaps?
--
Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-09-03 18:42:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,
Ha...{repeats}
[snip]
This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.
--
If one gets permission to travel, what is the document for that called?
A "ticket of leave," perhaps?
A ticket to ride.

But only if you do right.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Tony Nance
2021-09-03 22:51:35 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
Post by a425couple
Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,
Ha...{repeats}
[snip]
This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.
--
If one gets permission to travel, what is the document for that called?
A "ticket of leave," perhaps?
A ticket to ride.
She's got one, but she don't care.
Quadibloc
2021-09-03 22:49:53 UTC
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Permalink
No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes,
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. There's no comparison between
Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example. Or even Red China.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-03 23:22:54 UTC
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Permalink
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:26:08 AM UTC-6, Ninapenda
No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes,
I think
There's zero evidence of that.
that's a bit of an exaggeration.
You woudl believe that, being in Canuckistan yourself. You're not far
behind Oz on that scale.

There's no comparison
between Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example.
Or even Red China.
None of which pretend to be democracies. What makes Oz more brutal is
that the people there don't *know* they're property.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Titus G
2021-09-04 01:02:45 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes,
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. There's no comparison between
Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example. Or even Red China.
None of North Korea, Belarus and Black (smog-ridden) China have laws
prohibiting the sale of alcohol to Australian Aboriginals, do they?
(Hong Kong might if the law hasn't been updated since decolonisation.)
It is even worse in New Zealand as unlike our neighbours, we are not
even permitted to build homes on dry riverbeds or in the middle of
forests known to spontaneously ignite. As our Lynn would say, there are
more urgent problems than the Woodstock 'flu and some minor variations
in the weather.

[ADVERTISEMENT.
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and concept of reality to converse on the internet AT THE SAME LEVEL as
some of its questionable political genii? Titus G has passed the course
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Quadibloc
2021-09-04 03:33:15 UTC
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And feel free to suggest a way in which we can get up the alcohol
tolerance of EITHER Aboriginal Australians or New World
First-Inhabitants to the levels of East Asia or Europe so that we can
remove those laws without running the risk of destroying 80 percent of
the remaining indigenous populations.
Sadly, Canada did remove those discriminatory laws in the early 1960s.

There is, of course, an obvious way to protect the people of the First Nations
from alcohol, which is to them as dangerous as heroin, without racial
discrimination.

Bring back Prohibition.

Unfortunately, I think that many voters would have their doubts that the
government would be able to make it work *this* time - and, of course,
they wouldn't really want it to try anyways.

John Savard
p***@hotmail.com
2021-09-04 04:53:12 UTC
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On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:09:38 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
........................................................
Post by a425couple
(And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
sports car races, and do travel around.)
I presume that "carnivorous" was an autocorrect error and that it
should have been "corona virus"?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
p***@hotmail.com
2021-09-04 16:30:18 UTC
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Post by p***@hotmail.com
........................................................
Post by a425couple
(And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
sports car races, and do travel around.)
I presume that "carnivorous" was an autocorrect error and that it
should have been "corona virus"?
This being Australia, it could be in the local dialect the adjective "carnivorous" doesn't need an object to modify, because everything is carnivorous!
I feel even with the carnivorous and the corona virus, we should also talk about the relative risk of accident in sports car races, and, depending on how far apart the tracks are, traffic accidents in between.
I wondered about this myself. Doesn't Australia have about the highest per-capita meat consumption
of any country? Therefore it would make sense to take carnivorous seriously.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Jonathan
2021-09-04 12:39:10 UTC
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Post by a425couple
George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/
Post by a425couple
Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty
How long can a democracy maintain emergency restrictions and
still call itself a free country?
By Conor Friedersdorf
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
It's like putting an GPS ankle bracelet on criminals
on probation. Treating ALL their citizens like criminals.

It's way over the Big Brother line imho.

Such a program could be left in place
after COVID for 'other' reasons having
more to do with protecting those in power
not society. The old slippery slope.

Vaccinations are the answer not this kind
of enforced quarantines. But the current
Aussie govt are the conservatives and
mandating vaccines are out of the question
for them.

It's Big Brother 2021 aka 'repression without a clue'.
Post by a425couple
Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian
should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the
home-based quarantine app.”
Proud, proud Australians.
(And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
sports car races, and do travel around.)
In Florida my workplace still enforces a ten day
quarantine if employees travel outside the state
and return. But it's essentially a voluntary program
as you have to self-report the travel.

And calling in sick for just about any reason
and you have to stay home 10 days.
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Paul S Person
2021-09-04 16:07:48 UTC
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So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?

Didn't think so.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Moriarty
2021-09-05 21:44:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.

Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.

-Moriarty
Moriarty
2021-09-05 22:09:31 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.
Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.
For my edification please, RWNJ means...?
Right wing nutjobs.

-Moriarty
Dimensional Traveler
2021-09-06 01:54:56 UTC
Reply
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.
Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.
For my edification please, RWNJ means...?
Right wing nutjobs.
Thank you.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
Jonathan
2021-09-05 23:24:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
It's still treating people like they were on probation
forcing them to wear a GPS ankle bracelet.
I'd find that objectionable as it assumes I
can't be trusted. Not to mention the old
slippery slope. Maybe the next incarnation
of such electronic monitoring won't be quite
so public safety minded?

They also have a voluntary close contact app
where it identifies everyone you come into
contact with.


COVIDSafe app

The COVIDSafe app is a tool that helps identify people
exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).

"In many cases, people won't know the names and contact
details of everyone they’ve been in close contact with
(for example, on public transport). COVIDSafe uses
technology to make this process faster and more
accurate."

"For COVIDSafe to work, it must be running in the
background on your phone."
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app



The mind reels with the possibilities for abuse
of such electronic monitoring as they are
endless.
Post by Moriarty
We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.
Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.
-Moriarty
The Second Amendment is at it's heart giving us
the ability to be free from govt repression.

The problem is it's far too easy for...criminals
to get guns.
--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-06 16:49:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Post by Paul S Person
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
It's still treating people like they were on probation
forcing them to wear a GPS ankle bracelet.
I'd find that objectionable as it assumes I
can't be trusted. Not to mention the old
slippery slope. Maybe the next incarnation
of such electronic monitoring won't be quite
so public safety minded?
They also have a voluntary close contact app
where it identifies everyone you come into
contact with.
COVIDSafe app
The COVIDSafe app is a tool that helps identify people
exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).
"In many cases, people won't know the names and contact
details of everyone they’ve been in close contact with
(for example, on public transport). COVIDSafe uses
technology to make this process faster and more
accurate."
"For COVIDSafe to work, it must be running in the
background on your phone."
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app
I am having a bit of trouble deciphering this.
https://covidsafe.gov.au/privacy-policy.html

It seems to be referring to the new built-in "Android" and
"iOS" phone function of detecting other phones that are
nearby, but also bypassing its privacy protection, which
Google and Apple usually would not allow.

As one element, I was under the impression that this
system makes every phone identify itself with a random
code number which is changed every 15 minutes.
And as far as I remember, the app that I use in Scotland
doesn't know who I am. How it goes is, if I get tested
positive for SARS 2, then I have a test ID number which
I input or scan into the app. Then all of the random
numbers that my phone used recently are transmitted
to the "people who are infected" database. Meanwhile,
your app downloads the "new infected people" random
numbers several times a day, and compares the download
to the random numbers that your phone has been close
to in the last - two weeks? Around that. So then, your app
knows if you have met infected people, but it does not
know who.

But for the Australian one, it says, "The encrypted user ID
will be created every 7 days". And if they need to, they'll
phone you.

Maybe that is what they /intended/ to do, but not what
they can do?
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-05 01:53:14 UTC
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Permalink
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
just for info:

Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.

Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.

New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.

pt
Lynn McGuire
2021-09-05 04:00:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.

Lynn
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-05 05:46:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths  per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet.  Those numbers will be changing.
True, but if our stupid pollies and business-droids didn't keep pushing
to "open the borders" we'd be able to keep a better handle on it. (And,
well, then there's their Gladdie (in NSW) who believes in locking-down
suburbs, so that one side of the street is lock-down, and the other
isn't, and the virus will obey the restrictions, as will the humans!)

Current projections for my state - Victoria - are for 300 cases per day
once we get to 70% of the (eligible) population on their first hit of
any vaccine.

More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need 90%
vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't exceed ICU
and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we won't have to shut down
entire hospitals because the virus takes out most of the staff.

It's a nasty little bug, it's just sent the aged-care facility I moved
my Mum into a week ago into lock-down for a fortnight, so far no
resident or staffer has tested positive except for the trigger case, I
hope it stays that way. :-(

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:34:48 UTC
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Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 04:33:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.

Must be a strange concept to a USAian.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 06:52:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Titus G
2021-09-06 07:23:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.
In New Zealand, knee replacement surgery is free.
People drowning in their own body fluids will have been horizontal for
some time before dying.

Take that, Jibini! (Aggressively, pretending not to be a coward.)
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 13:03:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.
In New Zealand, knee replacement surgery is free.
People drowning in their own body fluids will have been horizontal for
some time before dying.
Take that, Jibini! (Aggressively, pretending not to be a coward.)
I doubt Terry could stand in front of a bunch of Maori doing a *real*
haka without shitting his pants.

He probably wouldn't be able to handle the kiddies doing a "Welcome to
our whare*" haka, anyway.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

* - Probably the wrong word, house, vilage, I think.
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:10:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we
need 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure
it won't exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/
presumes we won't have to shut down entire hospitals
because the virus takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that
to be a simple question.
In New Zealand, knee replacement surgery is free.
People drowning in their own body fluids will have been
horizontal for some time before dying.
Take that, Jibini! (Aggressively, pretending not to be a
coward.)
I doubt Terry could stand in front of a bunch of Maori doing a
*real* haka without shitting his pants.
He probably wouldn't be able to handle the kiddies doing a
"Welcome to our whare*" haka, anyway.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
* - Probably the wrong word, house, vilage, I think.
Look interesting. But unless you're suggesting that they're some
sort of violent barbarian subhumans (you racist, you), I can't
imagine why it would frighten anyone of normal temperament to watch
it. Neither can you, but you're not of normal temperament, you're a
craven coward terrified of your own shadow, fullyo aware that you
would literally die within a day without your betters to tell you
how to live.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 12:57:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your problem?
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.
Ah yes, the good old, "We like guns because we can use them to kill more
of our own citizens", plan.

Only cowards, and those with SPS, need guns.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:17:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we
need 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure
it won't exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/
presumes we won't have to shut down entire hospitals because
the virus takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your
problem?
Most of our population vote, if it suits us, too. It's interesting
that you include that qualifier, without which you would have
actually had a point.

In some states, they even vote how they choose, instead of how
they're told.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that
to be a simple question.
Ah yes, the good old, "We like guns because we can use them to
kill more of our own citizens", plan.
The usual propaganda programmed talking point that completely
ignores what you're responding to. As expected.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Only cowards, and those with SPS, need guns.
If you're not afraid of dying, you should - seriously - lead the
way and show us how it's done.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 20:14:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your problem?
I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-09-06 21:33:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your problem?
I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?
What do they do if you don't vote?

I would not favor such a system unless "shoot all of the above" was
one of the options on the ballot.
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 22:09:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?
What do they do if you don't vote?
I believe there is a fine. However, there was also a religious exemption.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 14:58:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.
Freedom is indeed worth risking one's life for. What important freedoms
are lost by living in Australia instead of the United States, however, is a
more difficult question. Your response, I'm afraid, will be percieved by many
to be not merely misguided, but rather in the 'risible' category.

Or, to put it more briefly:

LOL!

John Savard
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:19:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 12:52:47 AM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we
need 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure
it won't exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/
presumes we won't have to shut down entire hospitals
because the virus takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
Yes, we like to keep our people alive.
And firmly under the hobnail boots.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that
to be a simple question.
Freedom is indeed worth risking one's life for. What important
freedoms are lost by living in Australia instead of the United
States, however, is a more difficult question. Your response,
I'm afraid, will be percieved by many to be not merely
misguided, but rather in the 'risible' category.
LOL!
Slaves often laugh in the face of their despair. It's still not a
siple question, and you know it. You're just not allowed to say so.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-06 15:33:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
We're having the same problem.

The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.

The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may luck out
once again.

And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and have
the right to vote with their feet.

Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly isn't the
solution either.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:24:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus
takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
We're having the same problem.
The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may luck
out once again.
Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a lazy,
incompetent and corrupt government control over healt card.
Post by Paul S Person
And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
have the right to vote with their feet.
Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly isn't
the solution either.
In Italy, the government is the problem.

But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a *lot*
less - less than half - what they were at the peak in January. And
shortages of care are more likely to be because the hospitals treat
their staff like shit, and said staff has, in fact, voted with
their feet. But most of the stories about shortages are just that -
stories, made up by someone with an agenda. Like the one from
Oklahoma.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-07 15:23:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:24:56 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus
takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
We're having the same problem.
The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may luck
out once again.
Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a lazy,
incompetent and corrupt government control over healt card.
Post by Paul S Person
And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
have the right to vote with their feet.
Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly isn't
the solution either.
In Italy, the government is the problem.
Can't argue with that, after the mess they made of a simple murder
investigation. Italian Light Opera at its most entertaining.

Yet 52% of Texans appear to have concluded that /their/ gummint is the
problem. Or, more properly, their governor, as in heading in the wrong
direction.

I don't know if anybody's even bother to ask Floridians how they feel.

So problematic governments are not the problem either. Although they
certainly don't help matters.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a *lot*
less - less than half - what they were at the peak in January. And
shortages of care are more likely to be because the hospitals treat
their staff like shit, and said staff has, in fact, voted with
their feet. But most of the stories about shortages are just that -
stories, made up by someone with an agenda. Like the one from
Oklahoma.)
IIRC, a while back, what sounded like about a third of Texas had its
ICU beds filled. And not rural Texas, either. But perhaps my memory is
exaggerating.

I still remember an official of one State (I don't recall which)
stating that they had added a very large number of ICU beds at great
expense and effort after the first wave, and it bought them ... one
more day before the ICU beds were exhausted in the latest wave (second
or third, as we appear to be in the fourth, although, really, counting
seems pointless).
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-10 17:09:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:24:56 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we
need 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure
it won't exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/
presumes we won't have to shut down entire hospitals because
the virus takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
We're having the same problem.
The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may
luck out once again.
Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a
lazy, incompetent and corrupt government control over healt
card.
Post by Paul S Person
And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
have the right to vote with their feet.
Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly
isn't the solution either.
In Italy, the government is the problem.
Can't argue with that, after the mess they made of a simple
murder investigation. Italian Light Opera at its most
entertaining.
Yet 52% of Texans appear to have concluded that /their/ gummint
is the problem. Or, more properly, their governor, as in heading
in the wrong direction.
I don't know if anybody's even bother to ask Floridians how they feel.
So problematic governments are not the problem either. Although
they certainly don't help matters.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a
*lot* less - less than half - what they were at the peak in
January. And shortages of care are more likely to be because the
hospitals treat their staff like shit, and said staff has, in
fact, voted with their feet. But most of the stories about
shortages are just that - stories, made up by someone with an
agenda. Like the one from Oklahoma.)
IIRC, a while back, what sounded like about a third of Texas had
its ICU beds filled. And not rural Texas, either. But perhaps my
memory is exaggerating.
I still remember an official of one State (I don't recall which)
stating that they had added a very large number of ICU beds at
great expense and effort after the first wave, and it bought
them ... one more day before the ICU beds were exhausted in the
latest wave (second or third, as we appear to be in the fourth,
although, really, counting seems pointless).
I see a whole lot of poll data, pretty much useless in all cases,
and "I sort remember but not really" there, and zero facts.

What is a fact is that national numbers appear to have peaked about
a week ago, with a 12% decline. I had assumed the initial sudden
drop was because while medical people work on long weekends,
administrative staff that reports the numbers often doesn't, but
we're now four days past that, and the rate of decline is still
accelerating.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2021-09-10 17:18:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:24:56 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we
need 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure
it won't exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/
presumes we won't have to shut down entire hospitals because
the virus takes out most of the staff.
Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
We're having the same problem.
The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may
luck out once again.
Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a
lazy, incompetent and corrupt government control over healt
card.
Post by Paul S Person
And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
have the right to vote with their feet.
Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly
isn't the solution either.
In Italy, the government is the problem.
Can't argue with that, after the mess they made of a simple
murder investigation. Italian Light Opera at its most
entertaining.
Yet 52% of Texans appear to have concluded that /their/ gummint
is the problem. Or, more properly, their governor, as in heading
in the wrong direction.
I don't know if anybody's even bother to ask Floridians how they feel.
So problematic governments are not the problem either. Although
they certainly don't help matters.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a
*lot* less - less than half - what they were at the peak in
January. And shortages of care are more likely to be because the
hospitals treat their staff like shit, and said staff has, in
fact, voted with their feet. But most of the stories about
shortages are just that - stories, made up by someone with an
agenda. Like the one from Oklahoma.)
IIRC, a while back, what sounded like about a third of Texas had
its ICU beds filled. And not rural Texas, either. But perhaps my
memory is exaggerating.
I still remember an official of one State (I don't recall which)
stating that they had added a very large number of ICU beds at
great expense and effort after the first wave, and it bought
them ... one more day before the ICU beds were exhausted in the
latest wave (second or third, as we appear to be in the fourth,
although, really, counting seems pointless).
I see a whole lot of poll data, pretty much useless in all cases,
and "I sort remember but not really" there, and zero facts.
What is a fact is that national numbers appear to have peaked about
a week ago, with a 12% decline. I had assumed the initial sudden
drop was because while medical people work on long weekends,
administrative staff that reports the numbers often doesn't, but
we're now four days past that, and the rate of decline is still
accelerating.
Says the guy who said it would all be over by April 2020...
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-05 14:26:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
Or post links. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58449876

"gunshot victims are having hard times getting treated"

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

"You are not a horse. You are not a cow." (not on the page
but evidently a summary of it)
J. Clarke
2021-09-05 15:19:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
Or post links. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58449876
"gunshot victims are having hard times getting treated"
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
"You are not a horse. You are not a cow." (not on the page
but evidently a summary of it)
Read the page very carefully. Especially the "What you need to know"
part:
__________________________________________________________________
"Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in
preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. *Ivermectin is
approved for human use* to treat infections caused by some parasitic
worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
Currently available data do not show ivermectin is effective against
COVID-19. Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the
prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
Taking large doses of ivermectin is dangerous.
If your health care provider writes you an ivermectin prescription,
fill it through a legitimate source such as a pharmacy, and take it
exactly as prescribed.
Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other
people. Animal ivermectin products are very different from those
approved for humans. Use of animal ivermectin for the prevention or
treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous. "
___________________________________________________________________


Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.
Scott Lurndal
2021-09-05 16:14:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.
They call it that because that's what people are buying at
Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
detriment.
J. Clarke
2021-09-05 21:33:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.
They call it that because that's what people are buying at
Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
detriment.
I think you misspelled _hilarious_ detriment. Mind you, it's
very hard on the horses that needed that medication.
There was an article in the Washington Post this week about someone
who was in the hospital, in dire straights, what the hospital was
doing didn't seem to be working, so he got a physician to prescribe
ivermectin and the hospital refused to administer it. Ended up
getting a court order requiring that the hospital do it.

The Post didn't show a picture of prescription tablets, they showed a
picture of the veterinary preparation, and in the comments the main
topic was the stupidity of people who take horse dewormer.

Sorry, but this "horse dewormer" business stinks of propaganda.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:49:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Sorry, but this "horse dewormer" business stinks of propaganda.
Of the worst kind. It's like the people who peddle it (the
propaganda, that is) the worst are aftaid it *does* work, and will
shorten the length of time they can get away with their coup without
consequence.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:47:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.
They call it that because that's what people are buying at
Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
detriment.
Perhaps people are buying it that way because they've been lied to
and believe there's no other way to get it.

There are court cases over doctors prescribing it - the human kind -
and hospitals refusing to administer it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:48:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label
use is deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it
that is approved for use in humans.
They call it that because that's what people are buying at
Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
detriment.
I think you misspelled _hilarious_ detriment. Mind you, it's
very hard on the horses that needed that medication.
Only a psychopath finds human in other people's suffering.
Psychopathy is a very serious form of mental illness.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2021-09-09 04:20:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.
I thought I'd see if I could get information on the clinical trials
of ivermectin for COVID-19.

Google did throw up, right off the bat, two apparently valid results.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34318930/

is a meta-study that concludes it's worthless; and

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx

is another meta-study which concludes it's likely to be helpful.

Hence, I am not able to determine whether



is a genuinely objective take on the situation here. Maybe ivermectin *is* useful,
but since its unofficial use is coming from the same people who brought you
hydrochloroquine, it's being assumed that this advice is of similar quality, where
just possibly, it might not be.

John Savard
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:45:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by a425couple
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 3:04:52 PM UTC-4, J.
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:09:38 AM UTC-6,
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times,
and thereaf
ter
Post by a425couple
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their
face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they
fail, the loca
l
Post by a425couple
police department will be sent to follow up in person.
“We
don’t tell
Post by a425couple
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to
reply withi
n 15
Post by a425couple
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a
certain age) in
South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it
_is_ every
one,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus -
as one wou
ld expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international
travel ment
ioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a
program on the
ir phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would
seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to
being an i
ntrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are
necessary to pr
event a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the
present situatio
n in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are
collapsing
from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not
something I will
condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more
details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns
out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine
period after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary
alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-
app-using
-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire
pandemic. That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it
works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is
no pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess
the second part is true, in the sense people who shit
themselves to death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is
FDA approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit
themselves to death" and there is evidence that it can impede
the replication of the virus. There is no evidence that it
actually affects the progress of COVID in humans but there is
no evidence that it doesn't, either. If in clinical trials
(which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're going to look
like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to
call me names.
Or post links.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58449876
"gunshot victims are having hard times getting treated"
Based on a Rolling Stone story that has been so throughly debunked
the hospital in question would have a pretty strong case for libel.

Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah has since issued the
following statement:

"Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he
is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage
for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked
at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not
treated any patients due to complications related to taking
ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin
overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have
received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had
to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to
reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide
quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity
to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s
support."

https://fox59.com/news/gunshot-victims-left-to-wait-as-oklahoma-
hospitals-overwhelmed-with-horse-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

https://tinyurl.com/7yyd6a8e

In other words, either the doctor they quoted (who hasn't worked at
that hospital for two months) outright *lied*, or Rolling Stone
did.
Post by a425couple
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not
-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
"You are not a horse. You are not a cow." (not on the page
but evidently a summary of it)
As Clarke pointed out - in what you replied to - it's FDA approved
for human use.

So, like the CDC, the FDA can't keep its narrative straight.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-05 15:49:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,�
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
You forgot the bleach ...
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2021-09-05 15:55:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 09:34:01 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
Sounds a lot like -- what was it? -- oh, yes, laetrile.

Bing's results
<https://www.bing.com/search?q=apricot+kernels+cancer+cure&cvid=33a1d59ed441401c92b7a76bc512272e&aqs=edge.2.69i57j0l5.29549j0j1&pglt=675&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=U531>
show many of the same arguments.

IIRC, the problem with laetrile isn't that it doesn't work in the
petri dish; it is that it cannot be used because it will not survive
long enough after either injection or consumption to have any effect.

Perhaps some of the cancer-targetting nano-containers designed to keep
the payload intact until needed will help ...
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
Not so far. But there weren't a lot of posts today, for some reason.

As to the dewormers -- you get what you pay for.

And even Trump has expressed some alarm at the fact that is /his/
voters who are not getting vaccinated and so are dying. IIRC, that is.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Titus G
2021-09-05 20:22:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
snip
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.

Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/oklahoma-doctor-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-09-05 22:17:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.
Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/oklahoma-doctor-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus
This turned out to be a hoax:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1434591443855753220.html
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Titus G
2021-09-05 23:38:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Titus G
snip
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.
Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/oklahoma-doctor-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1434591443855753220.html
Thank you. It appears that your referenced article was written on the
3rd of September whilst the Guardian article was on the 4th. A black
mark for the Guardian - I wonder if they will publish a followup.
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 01:47:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.
Well, since doctors aren't willing to prescribe a *safe* human dose of
ivermectin to people wanting to try it against COVID-19, this is what
happens. So part of it is that the people advocating ivermectin aren't
saying how many pieces you should split a horse pill into...

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-09-06 02:25:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Titus G
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.
Well, since doctors aren't willing to prescribe a *safe* human dose of
ivermectin to people wanting to try it against COVID-19, this is what
happens. So part of it is that the people advocating ivermectin aren't
saying how many pieces you should split a horse pill into...
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe human
dose?
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 03:17:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 18:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Titus G
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with
animal products rather than human products prescribed by
doctors.
Well, since doctors aren't willing to prescribe a *safe* human
dose of ivermectin to people wanting to try it against COVID-19,
this is what happens. So part of it is that the people
advocating ivermectin aren't saying how many pieces you should
split a horse pill into...
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
Certainly not the doctors who are, in fact, prescribing a safe human
dose, and helping family members sue hospitals who refuse to
administer it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 06:06:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe human
dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human dose of
ivermectin to patients with a condition for which ivermectin is an
on-label therapy.

Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be regarded
as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_ doctors to be
highly reluctant to engage in that.

John Savard
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 07:00:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know that
there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel strongly
enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to court with
family members to force hospitals to honor the prescription.

This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of cowardice,
or are you literally hallucinating that it's not there because you
haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Titus G
2021-09-06 07:40:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know that
there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel strongly
enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to court with
family members to force hospitals to honor the prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of cowardice,
or are you literally hallucinating that it's not there because you
haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling me not to
believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us telling us again
and again that they want more power to avoid a coup from invermectin
shitting American supporters who will privatise our hospitals converting
them into Intensive Care facilities where the most money can be
extracted from the ultra-wealthy and all our poor people will then have
to buy their own sticking plasters if they have a minor skin breakage.
Heaven forbid!
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no matter
how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest otherwise. They keep
saying that a being with two legs can have mad cow disease. My sympathy.
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 13:04:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know that
there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel strongly
enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to court with
family members to force hospitals to honor the prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of cowardice,
or are you literally hallucinating that it's not there because you
haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling me not to
believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us telling us again
and again that they want more power to avoid a coup from invermectin
shitting American supporters who will privatise our hospitals converting
them into Intensive Care facilities where the most money can be
extracted from the ultra-wealthy and all our poor people will then have
to buy their own sticking plasters if they have a minor skin breakage.
Heaven forbid!
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no matter
how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest otherwise. They keep
saying that a being with two legs can have mad cow disease. My sympathy.
Snerk.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:15:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know
that there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel
strongly enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to
court with family members to force hospitals to honor the
prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of
cowardice, or are you literally hallucinating that it's not
there because you haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling
me not to believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us telling
us again and again that they want more power to avoid a coup
from invermectin shitting American supporters who will privatise
our hospitals converting them into Intensive Care facilities
where the most money can be extracted from the ultra-wealthy and
all our poor people will then have to buy their own sticking
plasters if they have a minor skin breakage. Heaven forbid!
The first step to treating mental illness is getting the patient to
admit they have a problem.
Post by Titus G
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can have
mad cow disease. My sympathy.
If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
"ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-07 15:26:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:15:03 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know
that there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel
strongly enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to
court with family members to force hospitals to honor the
prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of
cowardice, or are you literally hallucinating that it's not
there because you haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling
me not to believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us telling
us again and again that they want more power to avoid a coup
from invermectin shitting American supporters who will privatise
our hospitals converting them into Intensive Care facilities
where the most money can be extracted from the ultra-wealthy and
all our poor people will then have to buy their own sticking
plasters if they have a minor skin breakage. Heaven forbid!
The first step to treating mental illness is getting the patient to
admit they have a problem.
Post by Titus G
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can have
mad cow disease. My sympathy.
If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
"ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.
The last story I saw on /that/ topic was about a Judge who would /not/
order a hospital to dispense ivermectin to a patient, no matter how
hard his wife pleaded. This was properly-prescribed and dispensed
ivermectin, too, so presumably formulated for humans.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-10 17:10:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:15:03 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a
safe human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially
be regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect
_many_ doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know
that there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel
strongly enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go
to court with family members to force hospitals to honor the
prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of
cowardice, or are you literally hallucinating that it's not
there because you haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling
me not to believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us
telling us again and again that they want more power to avoid
a coup from invermectin shitting American supporters who will
privatise our hospitals converting them into Intensive Care
facilities where the most money can be extracted from the
ultra-wealthy and all our poor people will then have to buy
their own sticking plasters if they have a minor skin
breakage. Heaven forbid!
The first step to treating mental illness is getting the patient
to admit they have a problem.
Post by Titus G
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can
have mad cow disease. My sympathy.
If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
"ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.
The last story I saw on /that/ topic was about a Judge who would
/not/ order a hospital to dispense ivermectin to a patient, no
matter how hard his wife pleaded. This was properly-prescribed
and dispensed ivermectin, too, so presumably formulated for
humans.
In that particular case, the ruling was based on the fact that the
patient was already showing significant improvement, making
experiemental treatment irrelevant.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Titus G
2021-09-08 06:57:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe
human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be
regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_
doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know
that there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel
strongly enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go to
court with family members to force hospitals to honor the
prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of
cowardice, or are you literally hallucinating that it's not
there because you haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling
me not to believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us telling
us again and again that they want more power to avoid a coup
from invermectin shitting American supporters who will privatise
our hospitals converting them into Intensive Care facilities
where the most money can be extracted from the ultra-wealthy and
all our poor people will then have to buy their own sticking
plasters if they have a minor skin breakage. Heaven forbid!
The first step to treating mental illness is getting the patient to
admit they have a problem.
I am not a patient with A problem. In this country of socialised
medicine, you need a lot more than just one problem to get attention,
(and free hospital meals and your own tv remote), for treatment. There
are only seven deadly sins and even in a small country like New Zealand,
that is not enough to go around so we all have lots of mental problems
but we are not allowed exposure to Covid19 variety whatever.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can have
mad cow disease. My sympathy.
If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
"ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.
Ignorance is bliss. I am so ignorant I have been spelling it invermectin
instead of ivermectin. To maintain my blissful lazy innocence I avoided
Google but did read the following:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/ivermectin-ohio-judge-reverses-court-order-covid-patient

But was disappointed to read the following which is truly scary and more
worthy of attention than head lice treatment.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/us-covid-patients-hospitals-surge
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-10 17:30:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a
safe human dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human
dose of ivermectin to patients with a condition for which
ivermectin is an on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially
be regarded as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect
_many_ doctors to be highly reluctant to engage in that.
If you weren't deliberately avoiding actual facts, you'd know
that there are doctors prescribing it for COVID, and who feel
strongly enough about it to a) risk their license, and b) go
to court with family members to force hospitals to honor the
prescription.
This has been mentioned before. Are you ignoring it out of
cowardice, or are you literally hallucinating that it's not
there because you haven't been told you're allowed to see it?
I still have a personal letter from our Prime Minister telling
me not to believe anything a doctor says about Covid19.
Our New Zealand government is completely honest with us
telling us again and again that they want more power to avoid
a coup from invermectin shitting American supporters who will
privatise our hospitals converting them into Intensive Care
facilities where the most money can be extracted from the
ultra-wealthy and all our poor people will then have to buy
their own sticking plasters if they have a minor skin
breakage. Heaven forbid!
The first step to treating mental illness is getting the
patient to admit they have a problem.
I am not a patient with A problem. In this country of socialised
medicine, you need a lot more than just one problem to get
attention, (and free hospital meals and your own tv remote), for
treatment. There are only seven deadly sins and even in a small
country like New Zealand, that is not enough to go around so we
all have lots of mental problems but we are not allowed exposure
to Covid19 variety whatever.
No matter what the cost in economic damage. Or peace of mind. Or
maybe y'all love having that jack boon on your neck. That seems to
be the case.
Post by Titus G
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Titus G
Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can
have mad cow disease. My sympathy.
If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
"ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.
Ignorance is bliss. I am so ignorant I have been spelling it
invermectin instead of ivermectin. To maintain my blissful lazy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/ivermectin-ohio-j
udge-reverses-court-order-covid-patient
But was disappointed to read the following which is truly scary
and more worthy of attention than head lice treatment.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/us-covid-patients
-hospitals-surge
Yeah, when you compare the peak of the current surge[1] to -
literally - the lowest numbers since the beginning of the pandemic,
they're likely to be higher. But more like 1/2 to 2/3 th peak in
January.

And note that even by their own twisted bullshit numbers, 300%
higher cases vs 86% higher deaths means the delta variant is a
*lot* less deadly.


[1]Which was just about when this was written - the national number
of new daily cases has dropped 12% in the last week - given the
usual delay in publication. How much of an effect the long weekend
will have remains to be seen, but it looks like the third wave is
winding down.

This is a classic example of "lying with the truth."
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
J. Clarke
2021-09-06 15:09:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe human
dose?
I would expect they're quite willing to provide a safe human dose of
ivermectin to patients with a condition for which ivermectin is an
on-label therapy.
Off-label prescribing of prescription drugs can potentially be regarded
as unprofessional conduct. So I would expect _many_ doctors to be
highly reluctant to engage in that.
Maybe in Canada it can.

Here's what the FDA says about it:
<https://www.fda.gov/patients/learn-about-expanded-access-and-other-treatment-options/understanding-unapproved-use-approved-drugs-label>
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:51:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is
no pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess
the second part is true, in the sense people who shit
themselves to death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is
FDA approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit
themselves to death" and there is evidence that it can impede
the replication of the virus. There is no evidence that it
actually affects the progress of COVID in humans but there is
no evidence that it doesn't, either. If in clinical trials
(which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're going to look
like a moron for sneering at it.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to
call me names.
The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with
animal products rather than human products prescribed by
doctors.
Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/oklahoma-doctor-ive
rmectin-covid-coronavirus
Based on a thoroughly debunked Rolling Stone article with claims
made by a doctor who has not worked in the hospital in question for
at least two months, and which has not treated a *single* case of
ivermectin overdose, or turned away a single patient.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:36:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to
take a picture of their face in the location where they are
supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police
department will be sent to follow up in person. “We
don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they
have to reply within 15 minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South Australia, or only people who are quarantined?
And if it _is_ everyone, just how serious is the coronavirus
there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would expect to be the case, given the restrictions on
international travel mentioned in the same article, then
requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem
to be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition
to being an intrusion on personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are
necessary to prevent a pandemic from becoming more
widespread - given the present situation in much of the
Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something
I will condemn. So I am going to look into this, to find out
more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app
-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it?
Only in your diseased, propaganda fed imagination.
I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
You mean the medication has has been widely used _in humans_ for
many years? By people who now have reason to avoid it in the
future, even if it means they die?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:39:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:09:38 AM UTC-6,
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to
take a picture of their face in the location where they
are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police
department will be sent to follow up in person. “We
don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis
they have to reply within 15 minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South Australia, or only people who are
quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone, just how serious is
the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would expect to be the case, given the restrictions on
international travel mentioned in the same article, then
requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem
to be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition
to being an intrusion on personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are
necessary to prevent a pandemic from becoming more
widespread - given the present situation in much of the
Western world, where health care workers are collapsing
from overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not
something I will condemn. So I am going to look into this,
to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-ap
p-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Lynn
I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.
I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is
FDA approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit
themselves to death" and there is evidence that it can impede
the replication of the virus.
The worst part is, it's a pretty effective anti-parasitic
medication, but now peopel who *need* it will be more likely to
avoid it because of the *lies*.
There is no evidence that it
actually affects the progress of COVID in humans but there is no
evidence that it doesn't, either. If in clinical trials (which
are in process) it shows efficacy, you're going to look like a
moron for sneering at it.
Only to people with half a brain. He literally *can't* see any such
evidence. He, like many others, will hallucinate that it's not
true. Otherwise, they'll have to see the blood on their own hands.
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to
call me names.
I doubt if he even sees your posts any more. He's too delicate a
snowflake to be able to handle reality.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2021-09-06 01:51:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.
I'd rather thank you for letting me know how this idea of using
ivermectin got started. So it does actually show enough promise
that there's still some legitimate research looking into it.

That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage people
to try it on their own - especially without information on how much
less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared to that in the
horse medicine they can get their hands on.

But that does make it less bad than continuing to recommend
hydroxychloroquine - which had also been legitimately investigated -
_after_ it was learned that, no, it wasn't any good.

John Savard
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 03:19:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage people
to try it on their own - especially without information on how
much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared to that in
the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should stop
doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer," thus implying
it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And hospitals should stop
refusing to administer a *safe* does when they _have a prescription_
from a license physician.
Post by Quadibloc
But that does make it less bad than continuing to recommend
hydroxychloroquine - which had also been legitimately
investigated - _after_ it was learned that, no, it wasn't any
good.
Nice attempt to change the subject so you look less wrong (and
stupid).
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-06 15:43:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage people
to try it on their own - especially without information on how
much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared to that in
the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should stop
doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer," thus implying
it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And hospitals should stop
refusing to administer a *safe* does when they _have a prescription_
from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer, and far too many people are buying it in
that form.

But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some people
are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in /that/ form.

Which can produce overdose problems, it appears. Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was like
"1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this qualifies as
a crisis yet.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:27:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without information
on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
humans.
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.

Because there isn't one.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2021-09-07 15:34:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without information
on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen that I
am agreeing with you.

It is both.

There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the same as
that (those) for humans.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least not
encourage COVID-19?

Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at least in
theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a Republican/alt-right
fearmonger.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.

And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).
If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time, because I
Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were properly
prescribed.

Although the "1 last year" probably was, since the
Republican/alt-right wingnuts weren't promoting it then.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Because there isn't one.
I wouldn't be too sure of that. But I'm not going to waste my time
trying to find one.

My point, after all, was that going from, say 1 to 8 is certainly a
very large percentage increase, but hardly large enough to be a
"crisis".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-07 18:04:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without information
on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen that I
am agreeing with you.
It is both.
There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the same as
that (those) for humans.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least not
encourage COVID-19?
Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at least in
theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a Republican/alt-right
fearmonger.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.
And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).
If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time, because I
Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were properly
prescribed.
Honestly, you guys remind me of the medieval scholars said to have
argued over the number of teeth in a horse, when all they had to do
was go down to the stable and count.

You *could* consider using Google, as could Terry.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers"
based on this infographic:
https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/ZO3aGrYGXdIUhiJ7.pdf

"Poison control centers are seeing a dramatic surge in calls from people
who are self-medicating with ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug for animals
that some falsely claim treats COVID-19.

According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which collects
information from the nation's 55 poison control centers, there was a 245%
jump in reported exposure cases from July to August — from 133 to 459. "

Apparently, even in America, not enough people are terminally dumb enough
to try this in any significant numbers.

pt
Paul S Person
2021-09-08 15:44:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without information
on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen that I
am agreeing with you.
It is both.
There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the same as
that (those) for humans.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least not
encourage COVID-19?
Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at least in
theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a Republican/alt-right
fearmonger.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.
And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).
If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time, because I
Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were properly
prescribed.
Honestly, you guys remind me of the medieval scholars said to have
argued over the number of teeth in a horse, when all they had to do
was go down to the stable and count.
You *could* consider using Google, as could Terry.
It's not that important to me, for the reason cited.
Post by ***@gmail.com
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers"
https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/ZO3aGrYGXdIUhiJ7.pdf
"Poison control centers are seeing a dramatic surge in calls from people
who are self-medicating with ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug for animals
that some falsely claim treats COVID-19.
According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which collects
information from the nation's 55 poison control centers, there was a 245%
jump in reported exposure cases from July to August — from 133 to 459. "
Apparently, even in America, not enough people are terminally dumb enough
to try this in any significant numbers.
Thank you for some actual numbers.

And for making my point -- it is hardly a "crisis".

Well, except for those dumb enought to believe Trump and friends, of
course. But, for them, /everything/ is a crisis. And properly so.

This is like an article I read that tried to "disprove" Trump's claim
tat twice as many <African-Americans> now supported him as had a year
ago. They did this by carefully documented that the percentage of such
persons had gone from 4% to 8%. IOW, they actually proved Trump's
claim. But they also showed its triviality.

There was a book that came out (well, came to my attention, anyway) in
the 60's called /How to Lie With Statistics/. It was, of course,
intended not to teach people how to lie with statistics but how to
tell when they were being lied to. Perhaps it needs to be promoted
again nowadays, as it seems to have worn off.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2021-09-08 19:03:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
This is like an article I read that tried to "disprove" Trump's claim
tat twice as many <African-Americans> now supported him as had a year
ago. They did this by carefully documented that the percentage of such
persons had gone from 4% to 8%. IOW, they actually proved Trump's
claim. But they also showed its triviality.
I don't know. That as many as 8% of African-Americans suffer from
that serious a level of mental derangement, I would think, is *hardly*
a trivial matter!

Or perhaps they're all millionaires who want to pull up the ladder
after themselves... but 8% of black people being in the 1% would
also be big news.

John Savard
Kevrob
2021-09-09 08:06:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
This is like an article I read that tried to "disprove" Trump's claim
tat twice as many <African-Americans> now supported him as had a year
ago. They did this by carefully documented that the percentage of such
persons had gone from 4% to 8%. IOW, they actually proved Trump's
claim. But they also showed its triviality.
I don't know. That as many as 8% of African-Americans suffer from
that serious a level of mental derangement, I would think, is *hardly*
a trivial matter!
Or perhaps they're all millionaires who want to pull up the ladder
after themselves... but 8% of black people being in the 1% would
also be big news.
What's the margin of error in those polls? Trump won 12% of the
AA popular vote in 2020.

[quote]

In 2020, President Trump garnered 12% of the Black vote: an improvement
on his 8% showing in 2016. But 12% isn’t the best performance by a GOP
nominee since 1960. As you can see in the above chart, several nominees
equaled or exceeded Trump’s 2020 showing, including Nixon (15% in 1968
and 13% in 1972), Ford (17% in 1976), Reagan (14% in 1980), and Dole (12%
in 1996).

[/quote] Forbes | 9 Nov 2020 |

https://tinyurl.com/TrumpAAvote

....which is:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/11/09/no-trump-didnt-win-the-largest-share-of-non-white-voters-of-any-republican-in-60-years/?sh=766c65204a09

If a sample size is small enough, and includes "all eligible to
to vote" as opposed to whatever screen is closest to "all
who will really vote in 2024,"* I could well imagine Trump
has lower numbers than the election results. Biden probably
polls better among "those unlikely to vote" in `24.

* The best comparison is probably between "registered voters
who are also likely voters" just before the Nov election and
the same slice of the electorate today. The 2020 number for
those folks might not not match the election results exactly,
but any difference could be within the poll's margin of error.
The smaller your sample size, the harder it is to rely on what
you can reliably say about any slice of the demographic.

"The Franchise" may have been good SF, but it is lousy
survey research methodology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_(short_story)
--
Kevin R
Kevrob
2021-09-09 08:24:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:

[snip]
Post by Kevrob
* The best comparison is probably between "registered voters
who are also likely voters" just before the Nov election and
the same slice of the electorate today. The 2020 number for
those folks might not not match the election results exactly,
.....as represented in the exit polls. We don't have access to the
race of the voter when looking at _actual_ votes cast, no matter
what the most extreme Trumpista might say!


[/snip]
Post by Kevrob
but any difference could be within the poll's margin of error.
The smaller your sample size, the harder it is to rely on what
you can reliably say about any slice of the demographic.
[snip]
--
Kevin R
Paul S Person
2021-09-09 15:18:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
This is like an article I read that tried to "disprove" Trump's claim
tat twice as many <African-Americans> now supported him as had a year
ago. They did this by carefully documented that the percentage of such
persons had gone from 4% to 8%. IOW, they actually proved Trump's
claim. But they also showed its triviality.
I don't know. That as many as 8% of African-Americans suffer from
that serious a level of mental derangement, I would think, is *hardly*
a trivial matter!
Or perhaps they're all millionaires who want to pull up the ladder
after themselves... but 8% of black people being in the 1% would
also be big news.
What's the margin of error in those polls? Trump won 12% of the
AA popular vote in 2020.
As to the question: who can say?

As to the assertion: others have pointed out that it is not possible
to say this based on actual votes; at best, this is from exit polls.
Which can be affected by how the other people standing around feel.

Still, 8% to 12% is a lot less impressive than a 150% increase. Which
is my point: you have to get the data, not just the percentage
increase.
Post by Kevrob
[quote]
In 2020, President Trump garnered 12% of the Black vote: an improvement
on his 8% showing in 2016. But 12% isn’t the best performance by a GOP
nominee since 1960. As you can see in the above chart, several nominees
equaled or exceeded Trump’s 2020 showing, including Nixon (15% in 1968
and 13% in 1972), Ford (17% in 1976), Reagan (14% in 1980), and Dole (12%
in 1996).
[/quote] Forbes | 9 Nov 2020 |
https://tinyurl.com/TrumpAAvote
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/11/09/no-trump-didnt-win-the-largest-share-of-non-white-voters-of-any-republican-in-60-years/?sh=766c65204a09
If a sample size is small enough, and includes "all eligible to
to vote" as opposed to whatever screen is closest to "all
who will really vote in 2024,"* I could well imagine Trump
has lower numbers than the election results. Biden probably
polls better among "those unlikely to vote" in `24.
* The best comparison is probably between "registered voters
who are also likely voters" just before the Nov election and
the same slice of the electorate today. The 2020 number for
those folks might not not match the election results exactly,
but any difference could be within the poll's margin of error.
The smaller your sample size, the harder it is to rely on what
you can reliably say about any slice of the demographic.
"The Franchise" may have been good SF, but it is lousy
survey research methodology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_(short_story)
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-10 17:23:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 11:35:32 AM UTC-4, Paul S
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without
information on how much less the dosage for humans needs
to be, compared to that in the horse medicine they can get
their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer"
should stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse
dewormer," thus implying it's not approved for human use by
the FDA. And hospitals should stop refusing to administer a
*safe* does when they _have a prescription_ from a license
physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for
use on humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen
that I am agreeing with you.
It is both.
There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the
same as that (those) for humans.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other
way to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least
not encourage COVID-19?
Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at
least in theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a
Republican/alt-right fearmonger.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.
And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self
medicate, believing they have no other choice (because of the
lies) use dosages intended for animals with a lot more body
mass (and are idiots).
If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time,
because I Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it
was like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure
that this qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other
than a thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that
says that a single one of them was from a prescription by a
licensed doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were
properly prescribed.
Honestly, you guys remind me of the medieval scholars said to
have argued over the number of teeth in a horse, when all they
had to do was go down to the stable and count.
You *could* consider using Google, as could Terry.
I have recommended he do so.

He "can't be bothered" to actually know what he's jibbering about.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/
1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-cent
https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/ZO3aGrYGXdIUhiJ7.pdf
"Poison control centers are seeing a dramatic surge in calls
from people who are self-medicating with ivermectin, an
anti-parasite drug for animals that some falsely claim treats
COVID-19.
NPR is about as reliable a source as CNN or the NYT. Less so than
The Onion.

My comment was on the specific claim that a specific hospital in
Oklahoma was turning away gunshot victims in their emergency room
because of ivermectin iverdiesm, based on an article in Rolling
Stone that literally did not have one fact in it. Either the doctor
they interviewed (without making *any* attempt to verify *anything*
he told them) lied, or they did, since the hospital in question
hasn't has a single ivermectin overdose, hasn't turned away a
single patient at the emergency room, and doesn't see much in the
way of gunshot victims anyway. And the doctor who made the claim
hasn't been at that hospital in at least two months.

*That* is the kind of bullshit that kills people.
According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which
collects information from the nation's 55 poison control
centers, there was a 245% jump in reported exposure cases from
July to August — from 133 to 459. "
So, even if they all died, it's a number comprable to how many
people drown in their bathtubs every year. Hardly seems like a
major crisis.

Plus, I though y'all celebrated the deaths of people whose politics
you disagree with.
Apparently, even in America, not enough people are terminally
dumb enough to try this in any significant numbers.
That was obvious to anyone who demented with political propaganda,
sucha s yourself.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2021-09-10 17:26:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 11:35:32 AM UTC-4, Paul S
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without
information on how much less the dosage for humans needs
to be, compared to that in the horse medicine they can get
their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer"
should stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse
dewormer," thus implying it's not approved for human use by
the FDA. And hospitals should stop refusing to administer a
*safe* does when they _have a prescription_ from a license
physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for
use on humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen
that I am agreeing with you.
It is both.
There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the
same as that (those) for humans.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other
way to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least
not encourage COVID-19?
Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at
least in theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a
Republican/alt-right fearmonger.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.
And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self
medicate, believing they have no other choice (because of the
lies) use dosages intended for animals with a lot more body
mass (and are idiots).
If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time,
because I Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it
was like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure
that this qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other
than a thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that
says that a single one of them was from a prescription by a
licensed doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were
properly prescribed.
Honestly, you guys remind me of the medieval scholars said to
have argued over the number of teeth in a horse, when all they
had to do was go down to the stable and count.
You *could* consider using Google, as could Terry.
I have recommended he do so.
He "can't be bothered" to actually know what he's jibbering about.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/
1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-cent
https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/ZO3aGrYGXdIUhiJ7.pdf
"Poison control centers are seeing a dramatic surge in calls
from people who are self-medicating with ivermectin, an
anti-parasite drug for animals that some falsely claim treats
COVID-19.
NPR is about as reliable a source as CNN or the NYT. Less so than
The Onion.
Every source that you don't like is unreliable.

Got it.
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-10 20:01:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by ***@gmail.com
Apparently, even in America, not enough people are terminally
dumb enough to try this in any significant numbers.
That was obvious to anyone who demented with political propaganda,
sucha s yourself.
I'll eat generous and assume the above sentence is the product of autocorrect.
As it stands, I have no idea what your trying to say.

Pt

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-09-10 17:16:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
people to try it on their own - especially without
information on how much less the dosage for humans needs to
be, compared to that in the horse medicine they can get
their hands on.
Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does
when they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
It /is/ a horse dewormer,
It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use
on humans.
Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen
that I am agreeing with you.
It is both.
So, when you call it a "horse dewormer," you're implying it's not
approved for human use _on purpose_.
Post by Paul S Person
There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the
same as that (those) for humans.
And the news media, and their shills - like you - continue to try
to convince people that only one form exists.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
and far too many people are buying it
in that form.
Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other
way to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.
What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least
not encourage COVID-19?
The claims are credible enough that formal testing is being done
right now. Which you ignore. *That* kind of lie.
Post by Paul S Person
Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at
least in theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a
Republican/alt-right fearmonger.
It's certainly implied when you insist on referring to it as "horse
dewormer" and nothing else.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
/that/ form.
Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.
Not for the diseases it's approved for.
Somebody posted the FDA guidelines for off-label use. It's
prefectly legitimate and within FDA guidelines.

*That* kind of lie.
Post by Paul S Person
And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.
And sometimes for ignoring FDA guidelines for off-label uses that
are prefectly legitimate.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).
If you say so.
I do.
Post by Paul S Person
I haven't read a drug lable for a long time,
because I Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.
Which is to say, you don't believe in science, or personal
responsibility, but that's hardly a surprise from a lefty.
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Paul S Person
Calls to poison
hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it
was like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that
this qualifies as a crisis yet.
And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than
a thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says
that a single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed
doctor.
I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were
properly prescribed.
You wouldn't. And you refuse to find out. Becaus you're programmed
not to.
Post by Paul S Person
Although the "1 last year" probably was, since the
Republican/alt-right wingnuts weren't promoting it then.
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Because there isn't one.
I wouldn't be too sure of that.
The hospital is, and they know.
Post by Paul S Person
But I'm not going to waste my
time trying to find one.
You're not *allowed* to find out by your mssters.
Post by Paul S Person
My point, after all, was that going from, say 1 to 8 is
certainly a very large percentage increase, but hardly large
enough to be a "crisis".
And the real point is that you rely on outright propaganada for
your demented world view, as you were told by your masters.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 04:32:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by ***@gmail.com
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to
take a picture of their face in the location where they are
supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police
department will be sent to follow up in person. “We
don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they
have to reply within 15 minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South Australia, or only people who are quarantined?
And if it _is_ everyone, just how serious is the coronavirus
there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would expect to be the case, given the restrictions on
international travel mentioned in the same article, then
requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem
to be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition
to being an intrusion on personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary
to prevent a pandemic from becoming more widespread - given
the present situation in much of the Western world, where
health care workers are collapsing from overwork, genuinely
necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-a
pp-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Vaccinations will reduce the final numbers quite a bit.
But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the lockdowns.
Not a peep. The government won't allow it.
*Your* government might not allow it, but it's being discussed here in
Australia, over various channels, from the populist 6:00pm
news-and-entertainment shows and tabloids to the serious
in-depth-journalism programs and what's left of the broadsheets.

The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty from
Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily briefings.

So it's not being hidden, or avoided.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 06:52:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by ***@gmail.com
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:09:38 AM UTC-6,
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to
take a picture of their face in the location where they
are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police
department will be sent to follow up in person. “We
don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis
they have to reply within 15 minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South Australia, or only people who are
quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone, just how serious is
the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would expect to be the case, given the restrictions on
international travel mentioned in the same article, then
requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem
to be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition
to being an intrusion on personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are
necessary to prevent a pandemic from becoming more
widespread - given the present situation in much of the
Western world, where health care workers are collapsing
from overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not
something I will condemn. So I am going to look into this,
to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian
-a
pp-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
pt
The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.
Vaccinations will reduce the final numbers quite a bit.
But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the
lockdowns. Not a peep. The government won't allow it.
*Your* government might not allow it, but it's being discussed
here in Australia, over various channels, from the populist
6:00pm news-and-entertainment shows and tabloids to the serious
in-depth-journalism programs and what's left of the broadsheets.
And their conclusions are, let me guess, that it was all worthwhile
and saved human civilization, right?
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty from
Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily
briefings.
So it's not being hidden, or avoided.
Being lied about amounts to the same thing.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-09-06 12:55:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[SNIP]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the
lockdowns. Not a peep. The government won't allow it.
*Your* government might not allow it, but it's being discussed
here in Australia, over various channels, from the populist
6:00pm news-and-entertainment shows and tabloids to the serious
in-depth-journalism programs and what's left of the broadsheets.
And their conclusions are, let me guess, that it was all worthwhile
and saved human civilization, right?
Hmm, maybe yes, maybe no. They're pollies, are you really that thick
that you expect a straight answer??
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty from
Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily
briefings.
So it's not being hidden, or avoided.
Being lied about amounts to the same thing.
Ah, of course, the old, "How do you tell when a politician is lying?
Their mouth is moving" gag.

Get some fresh material, monkey boy.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 17:18:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the
lockdowns. Not a peep. The government won't allow it.
*Your* government might not allow it, but it's being discussed
here in Australia, over various channels, from the populist
6:00pm news-and-entertainment shows and tabloids to the
serious in-depth-journalism programs and what's left of the
broadsheets.
And their conclusions are, let me guess, that it was all
worthwhile and saved human civilization, right?
Hmm, maybe yes, maybe no. They're pollies, are you really that
thick that you expect a straight answer??
I expected you to agree with me, and you did.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty
from Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily
briefings.
So it's not being hidden, or avoided.
Being lied about amounts to the same thing.
Ah, of course, the old, "How do you tell when a politician is
lying? Their mouth is moving" gag.
Which you just agreed with up above.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Get some fresh material, monkey boy.
Be a better inspiration, popaganda-bot.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Titus G
2021-09-05 20:19:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 5/09/21 1:53 pm, ***@gmail.com wrote:

snip Australian totalitarian nonsense
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
The perceived problem in New Zealand is that we do not have the
Intensive Care facilities to cope with an outbreak and that is the main
reason we are supportive of personal restrictions.
Because we are not a loony gun culture where we shoot each other and
where until recently our police were unarmed, we do not have anywhere
near the number of IC beds in proportion to population as such places as
the USA.
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-05 22:26:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip Australian totalitarian nonsense
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
The perceived problem in New Zealand is that we do not have the
Intensive Care facilities to cope with an outbreak and that is the main
reason we are supportive of personal restrictions.
Because we are not a loony gun culture where we shoot each other and
where until recently our police were unarmed, we do not have anywhere
near the number of IC beds in proportion to population as such places as
the USA.
If you think a significant number of American ICU beds are there because
of gunshot injuries, you're mistaken. It sounds like 'Kiwi myths about the
US'.

https://healthtalk.org/intensive-care-patients-experiences/emergency-admissions-to-icu

pt
Titus G
2021-09-05 23:32:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Titus G
snip Australian totalitarian nonsense
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
The perceived problem in New Zealand is that we do not have the
Intensive Care facilities to cope with an outbreak and that is the main
reason we are supportive of personal restrictions.
Because we are not a loony gun culture where we shoot each other and
where until recently our police were unarmed, we do not have anywhere
near the number of IC beds in proportion to population as such places as
the USA.
If you think a significant number of American ICU beds are there because
of gunshot injuries, you're mistaken. It sounds like 'Kiwi myths about the
US'.
https://healthtalk.org/intensive-care-patients-experiences/emergency-admissions-to-icu
Not a kiwi myth but an individual kiwi seizing an opportunity to have a dig!
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:52:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip Australian totalitarian nonsense
Post by ***@gmail.com
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
The perceived problem in New Zealand is that we do not have the
Intensive Care facilities to cope with an outbreak and that is
the main reason we are supportive of personal restrictions.
Because we are not a loony gun culture where we shoot each other
and where until recently our police were unarmed, we do not have
anywhere near the number of IC beds in proportion to population
as such places as the USA.
The joys of socialized medicine, where the government decides who
much your life is worth without consulting you.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Chrysi Cat
2021-09-06 06:54:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 3:04:52 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in
the location where they are supposed to be. Should they
fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up
in person. “We don
’t tell
Post by a425couple
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would ex
pect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel
mentioned
in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program
on their ph
ones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to
be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to
being an intrus
ion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary
to prevent
a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present
situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are
collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I
will cond
emn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-ap
p-using-f
acial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
Any numbers of how many people have died as a result of the
economic damage? Suicides, etc.
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
And Sweden isn't having a third wave to speak of. In fact, for the
last two months, the 7 day running average of daily deaths has been
zero as often as it's been one.
And they still have an economy.
Without any restrictions for some time.
But nobody wants to talk about Sweden any more.
What a surprise. Another refrain of "if we'd just made sure EVERYONE got
sick in the first wave, it would be a childhood disease like pre-1990
chicken pox now".

Eventually there'd be another zoonotic like this that had a higher death
toll anyway; you can't try to keep pre-2020 socialisation rules in place
throughout even the remainder of _your_ life, let alone my natural one.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 07:07:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by a425couple
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial
recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at
random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face
in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they
fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up
in person. “We don
’t tell
Post by a425couple
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to
reply within 15
minutes,”
This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain
age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it
_is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?
If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as
one would ex
pect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international
travel mentioned
in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program
on their ph
ones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem
to be completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition
to being an intrus
ion on
personal liberty.
However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are
necessary to prevent
a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present
situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are
collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something
I will cond
emn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out
that (1) it only applies to people who are in the 14-day
quarantine period after foreign travel and (2) it is a
voluntary alternative to hotel quarantine.
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-
ap p-using-f
acial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>
Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.
Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
Any numbers of how many people have died as a result of the
economic damage? Suicides, etc.
Post by a425couple
New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
And Sweden isn't having a third wave to speak of. In fact, for
the last two months, the 7 day running average of daily deaths
has been zero as often as it's been one.
And they still have an economy.
Without any restrictions for some time.
But nobody wants to talk about Sweden any more.
What a surprise. Another refrain of "if we'd just made sure
EVERYONE got sick in the first wave, it would be a childhood
disease like pre-1990 chicken pox now".
They certainly seem to have been right.
Post by Chrysi Cat
Eventually there'd be another zoonotic like this that had a
higher death toll anyway; you can't try to keep pre-2020
socialisation rules in place throughout even the remainder of
_your_ life, let alone my natural one.
People in the 1919 flu pandemic said the same thing.

They were wrong, too.

Yeah, there will be another pandemic someday. Odds are, it will be
long after we're all dead and buried.

So go hide in your basement in terror of your own shadow if that
makes you feel better. Grownups have lives to live.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 01:27:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thank you for digging up this information.
While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
know what his word is(n't) worth.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-06 03:45:42 UTC
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thank you for digging up this information.
While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
know what his word is(n't) worth.
Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.

However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google, and quickly found
that this story is false. There is a 'CovidSafe' app in Australia, but
its a proximity based possible-contact tracker, similar to that seen in
many places, including the US.

Here's a story about the hoax:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-australian-coronavirus-app/false-claim-australian-coronavirus-app-checks-how-far-you-travel-from-home-idUSKBN22G2NY

pt
J. Clarke
2021-09-06 03:56:42 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thank you for digging up this information.
While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
know what his word is(n't) worth.
Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.
However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google, and quickly found
that this story is false. There is a 'CovidSafe' app in Australia, but
its a proximity based possible-contact tracker, similar to that seen in
many places, including the US.
You found the wrong app. CovidSAFE is something different from what
is being discussed.
Post by ***@gmail.com
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-australian-coronavirus-app/false-claim-australian-coronavirus-app-checks-how-far-you-travel-from-home-idUSKBN22G2NY
And here's a story about the reality.

<https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-australias-home-quarantine-trial-work/100398878>
J. Clarke
2021-09-06 04:09:39 UTC
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 23:56:42 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.
Thank you for digging up this information.
While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
know what his word is(n't) worth.
Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.
However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google, and quickly found
that this story is false. There is a 'CovidSafe' app in Australia, but
its a proximity based possible-contact tracker, similar to that seen in
many places, including the US.
You found the wrong app. CovidSAFE is something different from what
is being discussed.
Post by ***@gmail.com
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-australian-coronavirus-app/false-claim-australian-coronavirus-app-checks-how-far-you-travel-from-home-idUSKBN22G2NY
And here's a story about the reality.
<https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-australias-home-quarantine-trial-work/100398878>
And the official government page.
<https://www.covid-19.sa.gov.au/home-quarantine-app/home-quarantine-sa-user-faqs>
Ninapenda Jibini
2021-09-06 06:50:47 UTC
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On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6,
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone
app are people who have travelled from other parts of
Australia; it serves as an alternative to being quarantined
in a hotel for several days.
Thank you for digging up this information.
While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect
from Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it.
And we know what his word is(n't) worth.
Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.
And as often as not, they don't say what he claimes they say.
(Which is, of course, better than some here, who cite sources that
*never* say what they claim.)
However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google,
I'm quite proficient with it. I just don't care enough about
anything Quaddie says to bother. If *he* doesn't care enough about
being believed, I certainly don't.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Moriarty
2021-09-09 06:12:11 UTC
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Post by a425couple
George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/
Something called "The Texas Freedom Coalition" popped up on my Facebook lamenting the situation here in Australia, urging people to “Pray for Australia. It’s almost unbelievable what is happening there”.

Sniff, it's so nice to know they care! I contemplated their thoughts and prayers as I walked along the beach this sunny morning, coffee in hand after finishing my first swim of the season.

Texas: where the virus has more reproductive rights than women.

-Moriarty
David Johnston
2021-09-09 06:21:57 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by a425couple
George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/
Something called "The Texas Freedom Coalition" popped up on my Facebook lamenting the situation here in Australia, urging people to “Pray for Australia. It’s almost unbelievable what is happening there”.
Sniff, it's so nice to know they care! I contemplated their thoughts and prayers as I walked along the beach this sunny morning, coffee in hand after finishing my first swim of the season.
Texas: where the virus has more reproductive rights than women.
-Moriarty
Hey but the governor of Texas just eliminated all rape so there's that.
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