Discussion:
[tor dot com] Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
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James Nicoll
2021-08-11 13:18:26 UTC
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Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
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Andrew McDowell
2021-08-11 16:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one success compensates for many rejections. Admittedly, being physically attractive and in excellent physical shape probably buys him some license. That excellent physical shape would be because although he may function as a bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by birth and training, in a military which prides itself on aggressive physical toughness.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-08-11 17:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-
bureaucra
ts/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful
that he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the
basis that one success compensates for many rejections.
Admittedly, being physically attractive and in excellent
physical shape probably buys him some license. That excellent
physical shape would be because although he may function as a
bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by birth and
training, in a military which prides itself on aggressive
physical toughness.
While that is a pretty accurate description of the early appearances
of Ivan, he does develop into quite a bit more than *just* a comedic
libido.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Andrew McDowell
2021-08-11 18:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-
bureaucra
ts/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful
that he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the
basis that one success compensates for many rejections.
Admittedly, being physically attractive and in excellent
physical shape probably buys him some license. That excellent
physical shape would be because although he may function as a
bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by birth and
training, in a military which prides itself on aggressive
physical toughness.
While that is a pretty accurate description of the early appearances
of Ivan, he does develop into quite a bit more than *just* a comedic
libido.
--
Terry Austin
Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Ivan is more than just a cardboard cut-out, and there are even aspects of his character I find admirable (bravery, some sense of right and wrong) but I do not think he is accurately described as a bureaucrat.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-08-11 21:09:39 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 6:01:17 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 2:18:30 PM UTC+1, James
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-ficti
on- bureaucra
ts/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at
https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/ My Dreamwidth
at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/ My patreon is
at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so
powerful that he propositions every woman who crosses his
path on the basis that one success compensates for many
rejections. Admittedly, being physically attractive and in
excellent physical shape probably buys him some license. That
excellent physical shape would be because although he may
function as a bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by
birth and training, in a military which prides itself on
aggressive physical toughness.
While that is a pretty accurate description of the early
appearances of Ivan, he does develop into quite a bit more than
*just* a comedic libido.
--
Terry Austin
Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
border.)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Ivan is more than just a cardboard cut-out, and there are even
aspects of his character I find admirable (bravery, some sense
of right and wrong) but I do not think he is accurately
described as a bureaucrat.
He does desir to be one, at least. As nameless and faceless a
bureaucrat as possible.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Gary R. Schmidt
2021-08-12 03:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 6:01:17 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 2:18:30 PM UTC+1, James
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-ficti
on- bureaucra
ts/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at
https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/ My Dreamwidth
at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/ My patreon is
at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so
powerful that he propositions every woman who crosses his
path on the basis that one success compensates for many
rejections. Admittedly, being physically attractive and in
excellent physical shape probably buys him some license. That
excellent physical shape would be because although he may
function as a bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by
birth and training, in a military which prides itself on
aggressive physical toughness.
While that is a pretty accurate description of the early
appearances of Ivan, he does develop into quite a bit more than
*just* a comedic libido.
--
Terry Austin
Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
border.)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Ivan is more than just a cardboard cut-out, and there are even
aspects of his character I find admirable (bravery, some sense
of right and wrong) but I do not think he is accurately
described as a bureaucrat.
He does desir to be one, at least. As nameless and faceless a
bureaucrat as possible.
And he is a bureaucrat in a militant caste of /accountants/.

Nearly every role he has had since graduation has been as someone's
assistant, usually outside of the chain-of-command, being protected
somewhat by his (theoretical) proximity to the throne from being
required to display martial heroics.

And nowadays he's a diplomat. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Moriarty
2021-08-13 00:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-
bureaucra
ts/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful
that he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the
basis that one success compensates for many rejections.
Admittedly, being physically attractive and in excellent
physical shape probably buys him some license. That excellent
physical shape would be because although he may function as a
bureaucrat, he is in fact a military officer by birth and
training, in a military which prides itself on aggressive
physical toughness.
While that is a pretty accurate description of the early appearances
of Ivan, he does develop into quite a bit more than *just* a comedic
libido.
--
Terry Austin
Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Ivan is more than just a cardboard cut-out, and there are even aspects of his character I find admirable (bravery, some sense of right and wrong) but I do not think he is accurately described as a bureaucrat.
In that particular book, he is.

-Moriarty
David Johnston
2021-08-30 17:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-08-30 18:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Scott Lurndal
2021-08-30 22:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-31 00:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Scott Lurndal
2021-08-31 14:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
A little googling returns:

"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"

Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-31 15:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"
Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
I don't *think* so. But he did make remarks like that on
occasion.

However, the wording was "My name's Garrett. Let's fuck."

And sometimes, with people who already knew him, just "My name's
Garrett."

He sometimes used that line with people who he absolutely knew
(me, e.g.) would say not only No, but Hell no. He never made any
kind of actual pass at me, not even when I was working as his
Privy Clerk (= secretary) when he was Laurel King-of-Arms (head
of the SCA College of Heralds.) I can only assume that it was
the kind of "look at me, I'm male!!!" remark that in a previous
era was expressed by the wolf whistle.

I liked Randall, in spite of such rough edges. He was deacon at
my wedding--wearing, for the occasion, his medieval outfit that
was an exact copy of the garb worn by the cold Duke of Coffin
Castle in _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James Thurber. (The artist
was Marc Simont.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-08-31 15:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"
Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
I don't *think* so. But he did make remarks like that on
occasion.
However, the wording was "My name's Garrett. Let's fuck."
And sometimes, with people who already knew him, just "My name's
Garrett."
He sometimes used that line with people who he absolutely knew
(me, e.g.) would say not only No, but Hell no. He never made any
kind of actual pass at me, not even when I was working as his
Privy Clerk (= secretary) when he was Laurel King-of-Arms (head
of the SCA College of Heralds.) I can only assume that it was
the kind of "look at me, I'm male!!!" remark that in a previous
era was expressed by the wolf whistle.
Perhaps consistenly taking it as his leave to drop what you were doing
and leave in search of gratification would have eventually led him to
realize that the offer was counterproductive.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I liked Randall, in spite of such rough edges. He was deacon at
my wedding--wearing, for the occasion, his medieval outfit that
was an exact copy of the garb worn by the cold Duke of Coffin
Castle in _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James Thurber. (The artist
was Marc Simont.)
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-31 17:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"
Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
I don't *think* so. But he did make remarks like that on
occasion.
However, the wording was "My name's Garrett. Let's fuck."
And sometimes, with people who already knew him, just "My name's
Garrett."
He sometimes used that line with people who he absolutely knew
(me, e.g.) would say not only No, but Hell no. He never made any
kind of actual pass at me, not even when I was working as his
Privy Clerk (= secretary) when he was Laurel King-of-Arms (head
of the SCA College of Heralds.) I can only assume that it was
the kind of "look at me, I'm male!!!" remark that in a previous
era was expressed by the wolf whistle.
Perhaps consistenly taking it as his leave to drop what you were doing
and leave in search of gratification would have eventually led him to
realize that the offer was counterproductive.
I wouldn't have done that. What if he decided that I'd suddenly
changed my mind and dragged me into the nearest bedroom (or, if
outside, bushes)? I was very fond of Randall, but I never gave
him an inch, lest he take an ell.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-08-31 19:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"
Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
I don't *think* so. But he did make remarks like that on
occasion.
However, the wording was "My name's Garrett. Let's fuck."
And sometimes, with people who already knew him, just "My name's
Garrett."
He sometimes used that line with people who he absolutely knew
(me, e.g.) would say not only No, but Hell no. He never made any
kind of actual pass at me, not even when I was working as his
Privy Clerk (= secretary) when he was Laurel King-of-Arms (head
of the SCA College of Heralds.) I can only assume that it was
the kind of "look at me, I'm male!!!" remark that in a previous
era was expressed by the wolf whistle.
Perhaps consistenly taking it as his leave to drop what you were doing
and leave in search of gratification would have eventually led him to
realize that the offer was counterproductive.
I wouldn't have done that. What if he decided that I'd suddenly
changed my mind and dragged me into the nearest bedroom (or, if
outside, bushes)? I was very fond of Randall, but I never gave
him an inch, lest he take an ell.
I'm not sure how my suggestion leads to that.

"Oh, thank you, I will be back after I have found Hal and ravished
him" was the sort of thing I had in mind.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-31 20:06:43 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Can you put a name to him?
"Hi, I'm Randall Garrett, wanna fuck?"
Didn't you post about that sometime in the past?
I don't *think* so. But he did make remarks like that on
occasion.
However, the wording was "My name's Garrett. Let's fuck."
And sometimes, with people who already knew him, just "My name's
Garrett."
He sometimes used that line with people who he absolutely knew
(me, e.g.) would say not only No, but Hell no. He never made any
kind of actual pass at me, not even when I was working as his
Privy Clerk (= secretary) when he was Laurel King-of-Arms (head
of the SCA College of Heralds.) I can only assume that it was
the kind of "look at me, I'm male!!!" remark that in a previous
era was expressed by the wolf whistle.
Perhaps consistenly taking it as his leave to drop what you were doing
and leave in search of gratification would have eventually led him to
realize that the offer was counterproductive.
I wouldn't have done that. What if he decided that I'd suddenly
changed my mind and dragged me into the nearest bedroom (or, if
outside, bushes)? I was very fond of Randall, but I never gave
him an inch, lest he take an ell.
I'm not sure how my suggestion leads to that.
"Oh, thank you, I will be back after I have found Hal and ravished
him" was the sort of thing I had in mind.
Except I hadn't met Hal, back in those days. I was single and
determined to remain so; it took the better part of a year for
him to change my mind.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-08-31 09:09:46 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
Well, Norman Spinrad in _Bug Jack Barron_ (1969)
made Jack tell it to colleagues.

What Jack actually did was to sleep with his
television network PA whom he believed, wrongly
as I recall, to have been told by management
although not by him that that was part of the job,
and also to cruise bars after his show to pick up
any random willing woman who looked like
his ex-wife.

Wikipedia thinks that the "feminist" typesetters
of Michael Moorcock's _New Worlds_ objected
to the book. I don't know what that means -
did they make Moorcock re-type it himself?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug_Jack_Barron>

Reading it much later, I assumed it was something
you could already do... if you lived where Jack Barron
lives - New York or Los Angeles, I suppose, I don't
remember. He lives in the near future - counting from
1969 - and he hosts a call-in TV show with videophones.
I suppose that techniques such as live picture in picture
may have been futuristic?...
Richard Hershberger
2021-08-31 20:29:26 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
Wasn't there a rather famous sci fi author who famously made
a similar claim?
I knew a guy in college who used this strategy. I would go to a party and work his way around the room, going up to females and saying "Wanna fuck?" He claimed that this actually worked. It was a numbers game. The percentage of positive responses was low, but if he kept at it he would eventually get a positive response. I assume he went on to be a salesman. At that point in my life it wouldn't have occurred to me to look at this from the female perspective, but even at the time my thought was that this was a recipe for a lot of bad sex.

Richard Hershberger
J. Clarke
2021-08-30 22:17:08 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
In fact, it's a pretty well known joke (cleaned a bit): "Yeah, I get
slapped a lot, but I get lucky more often that you might think".
My father recounts the following encounter between a naval officer
know as "Frenchy" and a random woman in New York.

Frenchy says "Pardon me, madam, do you screw?"

The woman decks him and walks off. After she has gone a few paces she
returns and says "Do you do that often?"

"To be sure, madam", Frenchy replies.

"Don't you get slapped a lot"?

"To be sure, madam. But I also get screwed a lot." She laughed and
helped Frenchy up.

Note that while I do not recall meeting Frenchy, I have ridden in his
car, a red convertible whose brand and model I do not know (I would
have been perhaps 3 or 4 at the time and was not aware of such
things), which my father borrowed on one occasion. I remember it
because it was my first encounter with a convertible.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-30 19:46:17 UTC
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Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
Does he always take No for an answer? Put up no argument? If
not, it's harassment. I'd take it as harassment anyway, but I am
not one who would take "I'd like to go to bed with you" from a
stranger as a compliment.

Even at my age, when it's unlikely to happen.

I remember once long ago, on one of these groups, somebody saying
that your basic man is willing to mate with a knothole if nothing
else is available.

(It's possible he was exaggerating for humorous effect.)

And I said, "Aren't they worried about splinters?" And he said,
"If they're middle-aged, yeah, maybe. If they're young, they
won't think about it till afterward."

(I *hope* he was exaggerating.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-08-30 22:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
Does he always take No for an answer? Put up no argument? If
not, it's harassment. I'd take it as harassment anyway, but I am
not one who would take "I'd like to go to bed with you" from a
stranger as a compliment.
Even at my age, when it's unlikely to happen.
I remember once long ago, on one of these groups, somebody saying
that your basic man is willing to mate with a knothole if nothing
else is available.
(It's possible he was exaggerating for humorous effect.)
And I said, "Aren't they worried about splinters?" And he said,
"If they're middle-aged, yeah, maybe. If they're young, they
won't think about it till afterward."
(I *hope* he was exaggerating.)
A knothole sounds less comfortable than other readily available
alternatives.
David Johnston
2021-09-02 03:49:02 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Ivan Vorpatril as a sympathetic bureacrat? In 2021?
This is the Ivan Vorpatril possessed of a sex drive so powerful that
he propositions every woman who crosses his path on the basis that one
success compensates for many rejections.
I don't see the problem.
Does he always take No for an answer? Put up no argument? If
not, it's harassment. I'd take it as harassment anyway, but I am
not one who would take "I'd like to go to bed with you" from a
stranger as a compliment.
He does take rejection with good grace and it isn't his opening remark.
(Also I don't think he tries it on married women so that's a
mischaracterization. He just throws a lot of passes in the hopes that
some woman some day will take pity on him.)
Michael F. Stemper
2021-09-10 14:43:16 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I remember once long ago, on one of these groups, somebody saying
that your basic man is willing to mate with a knothole if nothing
else is available.
Then there's Lenny Bruce's famous line about men and mud.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Galatians 3:28
Jason Evans
2021-08-11 16:55:26 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
What, no Hermes from Futurama?
James Nicoll
2021-08-11 17:32:50 UTC
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Post by Jason Evans
Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
What, no Hermes from Futurama?
I don't find him esp sympathetic.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
2021-08-11 18:45:48 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Five Sympathetic Science Fiction Bureaucrats
https://www.tor.com/2021/08/11/five-sympathetic-science-fiction-bureaucrats/
YES ! The minute I saw the title I thought of "The Star Beast" by
Robert Heinlein. One of my six star out of five stars books.

I have "Captain Vorpatril's Alliance" on my soon to be reread list.
Wait, you put a Baen book on one of your lists ? ? ? Oh, the shame ! I
note that the book cover shown has the Baen logo missing from it.

I have not read or viewed the other three mentioned stories.

Lynn
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