Discussion:
OT: not YASID, subterranean civilization
(too old to reply)
Robert Carnegie
2021-07-24 10:33:26 UTC
Permalink
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".

"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.

OT because it's film.

Writer's block note: "The idea for the plot came to writer
Wallace MacDonald when he was under gas having a
tooth extracted."
Jack Bohn
2021-07-24 11:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.

Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive to produce.)
Post by Robert Carnegie
OT because it's film.
Writer's block note: "The idea for the plot came to writer
Wallace MacDonald when he was under gas having a
tooth extracted."
Ah, yes. That's gotten me through thirty-two projects. But now what?
--
-Jack
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 13:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.

Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Robert Carnegie
OT because it's film.
But TPE was ... horse opera, a close cousin to space opera.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-07-24 13:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)

Still, I bet his is not as good as Durand Durand's...
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
OT because it's film.
But TPE was ... horse opera, a close cousin to space opera.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 14:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-07-24 15:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 16:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Yes, but you're talking about the 1930s version. I can believe
it's bad. I never saw any singing cowboy movies--I disliked the
whole cowboy concept, because as a child I had entirely too many
male classmates who had capguns (the hammer would descend on a
tiny fragment of explosive that would make a loud bang). By the
time I had absorbed (possibly through the soles of my feet) the
names of some of the singing cowboys, they had mostly stopped
singing.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-07-24 17:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Yes, but you're talking about the 1930s version. I can believe
it's bad. I never saw any singing cowboy movies--I disliked the
whole cowboy concept, because as a child I had entirely too many
male classmates who had capguns (the hammer would descend on a
tiny fragment of explosive that would make a loud bang). By the
time I had absorbed (possibly through the soles of my feet) the
names of some of the singing cowboys, they had mostly stopped
singing.
I was one of those male classmates with capguns and singing cowboys
left me cold too.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 18:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Yes, but you're talking about the 1930s version. I can believe
it's bad. I never saw any singing cowboy movies--I disliked the
whole cowboy concept, because as a child I had entirely too many
male classmates who had capguns (the hammer would descend on a
tiny fragment of explosive that would make a loud bang). By the
time I had absorbed (possibly through the soles of my feet) the
names of some of the singing cowboys, they had mostly stopped
singing.
I was one of those male classmates with capguns and singing cowboys
left me cold too.
Then you were an admirable exception. Or you lived in a later
era? (My experience with gun-totin' classmates were in the late
1940s, early 1950s.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2021-07-25 00:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Yes, but you're talking about the 1930s version. I can believe
it's bad. I never saw any singing cowboy movies--I disliked the
whole cowboy concept, because as a child I had entirely too many
male classmates who had capguns (the hammer would descend on a
tiny fragment of explosive that would make a loud bang). By the
time I had absorbed (possibly through the soles of my feet) the
names of some of the singing cowboys, they had mostly stopped
singing.
I was one of those male classmates with capguns and singing cowboys
left me cold too.
Then you were an admirable exception. Or you lived in a later
era? (My experience with gun-totin' classmates were in the late
1940s, early 1950s.)
My cap gun phase would have been late '50s/early '60s.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2021-07-24 18:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
Not going to look it up. "Secret Empire" or "Phantom Empire" with...
Gene Autry.
Just post-Star Wars, NBC tried a revival of the cliffhanger format with
a TV series called "Cliffhangers." Three segments in an hour show, one
of which was an unacknowledged remake of this. (Without getting into
quality, it strikes me that three different types of show rather than
one in the hour slot had to mean that it would have been more expensive
to produce.)
Yes, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons it didn't last very
long.
Yes, I remember "Cliffhangers." There was a vampire segment,
with the very gorgeous Michael Nouri as the vampire, and there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliffhangers_(TV_series)
Depends, is this still a /singing/ cowboy feature? :-)
Not as I recall. There was background music, but nobody singing.
"Phantom Empire" is definitely singing cowboy. It can be found
streaming for free. I started watching the first episode. It's so
bad it's bad.
Yes, but you're talking about the 1930s version. I can believe
it's bad. I never saw any singing cowboy movies--I disliked the
whole cowboy concept, because as a child I had entirely too many
male classmates who had capguns (the hammer would descend on a
tiny fragment of explosive that would make a loud bang). By the
time I had absorbed (possibly through the soles of my feet) the
names of some of the singing cowboys, they had mostly stopped
singing.
--
The 3rd chapterplay on "Cliffhangers" was "Stop Susan Williams,
featuring the extremely leggy, blonde and toothsome Susan Anton,"
who starred in the SFnal film, "Goldengirl."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldengirl

Wiki says SSW was modeled on the "Perils of Pauline," and that may
be so, but at the time I thought they had given "Brenda Starr" a
name change and a dye job.

I saw singing cowboys as a 60s kid on local TV, and especially
on Saturday morning reruns of Roy Rogers' show. My sisters
have a photo of a 3-year me in a 10-gallon hat they can haul out
whenever they want to tease me.

I got to see many serials (All 3 "Flash Gordon" series, "Buck Rogers"
and others) a chapter-a-day on the children's TV shows hosted by
comedians like the late Chuck McCann. "The Phantom Empire"
was perfect for 8-year-old me. Cowboys! Songs! The Muranian
Thunder Guard! It really helped to be the same age as the original
target audience.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564841/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

http://www.skooldays.com/blog/the-chuck-mccann-show/

Everyone is making fun of the Blue Origin "New Shepard" vehicle's
shape, but it reminded me also of Dr Zarkov's rocket from the first
Flash serial. The sex toy joke showed up in "Flesh Gordon"

Loading Image... {Naughty shape, no flesh)
--
Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 18:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
The 3rd chapterplay on "Cliffhangers" was "Stop Susan Williams,
featuring the extremely leggy, blonde and toothsome Susan Anton,"
who starred in the SFnal film, "Goldengirl."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldengirl
Wiki says SSW was modeled on the "Perils of Pauline," and that may
be so, but at the time I thought they had given "Brenda Starr" a
name change and a dye job.
Hmmm. I don't remember her at all.
Post by Kevrob
I saw singing cowboys as a 60s kid on local TV, and especially
on Saturday morning reruns of Roy Rogers' show. My sisters
have a photo of a 3-year me in a 10-gallon hat they can haul out
whenever they want to tease me.
I got to see many serials (All 3 "Flash Gordon" series, "Buck Rogers"
and others) a chapter-a-day on the children's TV shows hosted by
comedians like the late Chuck McCann. "The Phantom Empire"
was perfect for 8-year-old me. Cowboys! Songs! The Muranian
Thunder Guard! It really helped to be the same age as the original
target audience.
Perhaps being male helped? I was in the same age group, and the
whole cowboy schtik left me cold.

But I got to see antiquated kids' Saturday movies even before
television. When my father was getting his Ed.D. on the G.I.
Bill, we were living in married-students housing in Menlo Park,
within easy commuting range of Stanford for all the married
students. (The husbands, mostly; their wives were busy raising
infants and toddlers, the beginnings of the Baby Boom.)

Every Saturday morning, somebody in the shopping area of the
village* would show many, many movies suitable for little kids.
Price, nine cents. There was a shop across the hallway that sold
honest-to-Cat penny candy; our parents would give us a dime and
we'd buy one piece of candy and give the change to the guy
running the movies. It now dawns on me that the candy-store guy
must have had to stock a whole lot of pennies.

_____
*Stanford Village, it was called; during the war it'd been Dibble
Military Hospital, and all the buildings were accessible by
ramps. Later on, Xerox Parc lived there. I have no idea what's
there now.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jack Bohn
2021-07-24 16:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
--
-Jack
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-07-24 17:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2021-07-24 20:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
And sometimes the director won't accept a good performance or actively
doesn't _want_ one.
--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.
James Nicoll
2021-07-24 20:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
And sometimes the director won't accept a good performance or actively
doesn't _want_ one.
A friend of mine who cannot sing was cast as Bottom in Midsummer Night's
Dream and was asked to sing _even worse_, which was a first for him.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Carnegie
2021-07-25 12:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
You mean, of course, that the victim was pretending
to be invisibly tortured (flickering lights aside). Since
the actors' unions made it increasingly difficult or
expensive to actually torture actors, even when you
"make it look like an accident".
James Nicoll
2021-07-25 13:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
You mean, of course, that the victim was pretending
to be invisibly tortured (flickering lights aside). Since
the actors' unions made it increasingly difficult or
expensive to actually torture actors, even when you
"make it look like an accident".
One of James Cagney's little quirks was that after Taxi!, he
refused to let other actors firing firearms at him use live
rounds. Live rounds were cheaper and easier to find, so
production companies preferred them.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Jack Bohn
2021-07-27 14:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
You mean, of course, that the victim was pretending
to be invisibly tortured (flickering lights aside). Since
the actors' unions made it increasingly difficult or
expensive to actually torture actors, even when you
"make it look like an accident".
Oh! I thought she was saying the real torture was the actor's performance!
Post by James Nicoll
One of James Cagney's little quirks was that after Taxi!, he
refused to let other actors firing firearms at him use live
rounds. Live rounds were cheaper and easier to find, so
production companies preferred them.
I read that in "The Public Enemy," a marksman was hired to machine gun a tight circle of destruction into a wall the moment after Cagney ducked his head behind it. It is an artistic little scene, but I needed this notification to pay attention to it among the surrounding ones. It's funny what will excite Hollywood production types.
--
-Jack
Kevrob
2021-07-27 07:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance),
Hey! Don't be so hard on him, he was working in '70s TV!
A good performance is a good performance, under whatever adverse
circumstances.
You mean, of course, that the victim was pretending
to be invisibly tortured (flickering lights aside). Since
the actors' unions made it increasingly difficult or
expensive to actually torture actors, even when you
"make it look like an accident".
You can torture them with bad scripts. Then, once you've
made them say the rubbish, you edit them out of the film,
or, if you keep a scene they are in, dub in another actor's
voice. :)
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-07-27 07:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
there
was the Phantom Empire remake: I don't remember who was the
cowboy hero, but Mark Lenard (familiar to ST:OS fans as having
played the Romulan Commander and Sarek) played the underground bad
guy. In one episode he tortures somebody with flickering lights
and weird noises (the torture, of course, was all in the actor's
performance), and when he shuts it off, he remarks in such a
reasonable voice, "All I offer is music and light. Are these the
instruments of torture?"
I had no idea that anyone thought to remake "The Phantom Empire".
I would have thought that a science-fiction serial featuring a
singing cowboy was an aberration of the particular historical
moment at which it arose, never to be repeated again.
But this particular scene reminds me of a famous moment from
a Superman comic book

Braniac and Lex Luthor have teamed up against Superman.
Braniac invites Luthor in to see a weapon he has devised to
use against Superman. Luthor asks, what could this possibly
do, and Braniac answers that it would torture Superman in the
most agonizing way.

After it is demonstrated, Luthor is disoriented. All the device
actually did was hypnotize _Luthor_, so Braniac could erase
Luthor's knowledge of Braniac being a robot - at the beginning of
the comic, Luthor offered to rewire Braniac from a tenth-level
effector to a twelfth-level effector... but also placed a device in
his computer-brain giving Luthor a hold over Braniac, and of course
Luthor was told to forget how to work that too, or remove it, or
whatever.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-07-27 07:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
But this particular scene reminds me of a famous moment from
a Superman comic book
This was also the world's first major retcon by some standards,
in the heart of the Silver Age, long preceeding the 1980s and following
when retcons started to become a habit.

The comic in question is Superman 167. It is in this comic that
Braniac is changed from an alien tyrant from the planet Bryak
to a humanoid-appearing robot from the planet Colu, due to
a legal proceeding resulting from the fact that the name Braniac
was already in use for a digital logic demonstration device
invented by Edmund Berkeley, author of "Giant Brains" and
founder of the magazine "Computers and Automation", which is
available on Bitsavers and the Internet Archive.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-07-24 20:07:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
Yes, I am indeed aware of that serial - "The Underground Empire".

I found it sort of distressing that one of the few available
science-fiction entertainments of that day would be
cowboy-themed, but then westerns were immensely
popular with children.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2021-07-24 20:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Robert Carnegie
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
Yes, I am indeed aware of that serial - "The Underground Empire".
But I see from the thread I didn't quite remember the title of
"The Phantom Empire" correctly.
Post by Quadibloc
I found it sort of distressing that one of the few available
science-fiction entertainments of that day would be
cowboy-themed, but then westerns were immensely
popular with children.
John Savard
David Johnston
2021-08-18 06:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
OT because it's film.
Writer's block note: "The idea for the plot came to writer
Wallace MacDonald when he was under gas having a
tooth extracted."
It was the inspiration for one of the serials that made up the 1979 TV
series "Cliffhangers."

"The Secret Empire": the adventures of a U.S. Marshal (Geoffrey
Scott) in the Old West who stumbles upon a futuristic underground city
run by aliens.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-08-18 12:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robert Carnegie
This seems to be not a secret, I just hadn't encountered it.
Have you? It's from 1935 and it's just started showing on
"Talking Pictures TV".
"The serial film is about a singing cowboy who stumbles
upon an ancient subterranean civilization living beneath
his own ranch"
- Wikipedia.
OT because it's film.
Writer's block note: "The idea for the plot came to writer
Wallace MacDonald when he was under gas having a
tooth extracted."
It was the inspiration for one of the serials that made up the 1979 TV
series "Cliffhangers."
"The Secret Empire": the adventures of a U.S. Marshal (Geoffrey
Scott) in the Old West who stumbles upon a futuristic underground city
run by aliens.
With Mark Lenard as the chief alien. So charming, so nasty.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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