Discussion:
[OT] Pain Can Now Be Measured
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Quadibloc
2018-11-07 19:43:02 UTC
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Saw this news item:

https://www.labmanager.com/news/2018/11/brown-researchers-develop-new-test-to-objectively-measure-pain-test-medications#.W-M_w_VlDIU

This could be great news for people suffering from chronic pain who are having
difficulty obtaining a prescription for sufficiently effective pain medication.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2018-11-07 21:13:56 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
https://www.labmanager.com/news/2018/11/brown-researchers-develop-new-test-to-objectively-measure-pain-test-medications#.W-M_w_VlDIU
This could be great news for people suffering from chronic pain who are having
difficulty obtaining a prescription for sufficiently effective pain medication.
John Savard
Placebo effect?
Gene Wirchenko
2018-11-08 21:27:33 UTC
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On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:13:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.labmanager.com/news/2018/11/brown-researchers-develop-new-test-to-objectively-measure-pain-test-medications#.W-M_w_VlDIU
This could be great news for people suffering from chronic pain who are having
difficulty obtaining a prescription for sufficiently effective pain medication.
Just imagine:

Physician: "According to our test, you are not experiencing that much
pain."

Patient: "Test this, you bastard!" and murders the physician.

I am also reminded of a cartoon that I saw showing a rather
cross, naked woman and a lab tech of some sort saying to her, "Well,
the machine says you had one."
Post by Robert Carnegie
Placebo effect?
Could be.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-11-08 23:44:59 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:13:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.labmanager.com/news/2018/11/brown-researchers-devel
op-new-test-to-objectively-measure-pain-test-medications#.W-M_w
_VlDIU
This could be great news for people suffering from chronic
pain who are having difficulty obtaining a prescription for
sufficiently effective pain medication.
Physician: "According to our test, you are not experiencing that
much pain."
Patient: "Test this, you bastard!" and murders the physician.
I am also reminded of a cartoon that I saw showing a rather
cross, naked woman and a lab tech of some sort saying to her,
"Well, the machine says you had one."
Post by Robert Carnegie
Placebo effect?
Could be.
The real problem (that this will make worse) is that different
people experience the same physical effect differently, and some
people are far more sensitive to pain than others. And while it
might be "all in their head," it has definite physiological
effects, similar to long term stress, which can trigger all manner
of problems.

There seem to be two extremes battling it out: those who believe
that all problems can be solved by prescribing more pills, and
those who believe that pain medication is literally evil and anyone
who takes any has sold their soul to the devil. With real pain
management experts caught in the middle.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Carnegie
2018-11-09 00:59:46 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:13:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.labmanager.com/news/2018/11/brown-researchers-develop-new-test-to-objectively-measure-pain-test-medications#.W-M_w_VlDIU
This could be great news for people suffering from chronic pain who are having
difficulty obtaining a prescription for sufficiently effective pain medication.
Physician: "According to our test, you are not experiencing that much
pain."
Patient: "Test this, you bastard!" and murders the physician.
Well, my take on placebo for pain is that pain is a perception,
and it's reasonable that that perception can be affected by
persuasion. (Having said that, I have felt pain, in case you
wondered.)

And also, that it's likely to vary a lot in the course of
experiments - so even if they have a working pain meter,
they'll have a lot of trouble using it.
Joy Beeson
2018-11-09 04:04:01 UTC
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On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 16:59:46 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Well, my take on placebo for pain is that pain is a perception,
and it's reasonable that that perception can be affected by
persuasion. (Having said that, I have felt pain, in case you
wondered.)
I'm frequently able to manipulate the pain of my sciatica.

I was somewhat worried when I went into the tube for my MRI because,
at that time, lying on my back for any length of time caused extreme
pain in my leg. When I felt the leg thinking about starting to wind
up, I concentrated on the pain in my shoulder caused by the magnets
jerking the wire in my clavicle around. This pain didn't bother me
because I knew that it was entirely imaginary -- they were looking at
my other end, to find out why my leg hurt -- and the pain in my leg,
denied an audience, never developed.

It helped that the relays in the machine were playing a drum solo, and
trying to figure out what occasioned each kind of chunkachunk kept my
mind occupied. I'm rather surprised that there is no musical
composition based on MRI noise.

Back when I had cramps every month, I asked my doctor for the newly
criminalized paregoric, and he said that paregoric was so weak that
I'd throw up before I got down enough to do any good -- never mind
that it took only a teaspoon to kill the current pain, and a
tablespoon would keep it from coming back -- and prescribed a dose of
morphine that hit the pain like an elephant gun downing a rabbit:
gulp, gone!.

I almost never took that pill -- I just carried it around in case the
pain got unbearable, and it almost never did.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
D B Davis
2018-11-09 14:18:44 UTC
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Post by Joy Beeson
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 16:59:46 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Well, my take on placebo for pain is that pain is a perception,
and it's reasonable that that perception can be affected by
persuasion. (Having said that, I have felt pain, in case you
wondered.)
I'm frequently able to manipulate the pain of my sciatica.
I was somewhat worried when I went into the tube for my MRI because,
at that time, lying on my back for any length of time caused extreme
pain in my leg. When I felt the leg thinking about starting to wind
up, I concentrated on the pain in my shoulder caused by the magnets
jerking the wire in my clavicle around. This pain didn't bother me
because I knew that it was entirely imaginary -- they were looking at
my other end, to find out why my leg hurt -- and the pain in my leg,
denied an audience, never developed.
It helped that the relays in the machine were playing a drum solo, and
trying to figure out what occasioned each kind of chunkachunk kept my
mind occupied. I'm rather surprised that there is no musical
composition based on MRI noise.
Back when I had cramps every month, I asked my doctor for the newly
criminalized paregoric, and he said that paregoric was so weak that
I'd throw up before I got down enough to do any good -- never mind
that it took only a teaspoon to kill the current pain, and a
tablespoon would keep it from coming back -- and prescribed a dose of
gulp, gone!.
I almost never took that pill -- I just carried it around in case the
pain got unbearable, and it almost never did.
A few years ago propofol was in short supply. Nowadays there seems to be
a shortage of lidocaine.
A colleague recently made me aware of an interesting application of
lidocaine. Propofol burns like hot metal when its injected into a
patient's veins. So there's a procedure that involves injecting
lidocaine first, followed by a propofol chaser.
Speaking of treatment that feels like hot metal, a long time ago my
fibula was broken in a bicycle accident when a motorist partially ran me
over with the front end of his pickup truck. My treatment involved the
surgical insertion of a pin along with being bedridden for a couple of
days afterward. Then it came time to put my injured leg over the edge of
the bed and drop it to the floor for the first time since the accident.
It felt like my leg was full of hot lava.



Thank you,
--
Don
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