Discussion:
Opinion on Generation ships size - Interstellar space travel will require sex
(too old to reply)
a425couple
2018-06-29 16:34:30 UTC
Permalink
from
https://thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2018/06/28/interstellar-space-travel-will-require-lots-of-sex/

Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex
by TRISTAN GREENE — 1 day ago in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE

(Lots of variation in population in generation ship stories in sci-fi,
from small of just a couple people, example "Orphans in the Sky", land
on new world, or 5 couples in "Seed of Light", to thousands in
"The Songs from Distant Earth")

Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex Credit: Nicole Gray
https://tnw.to/x5GS6

A pair of scientists from France developed an algorithm to determine the
minimum amount of sexually active couples it would take to maintain a
human crew inside of a spaceship for 6,300 years – the time it would
take to reach the nearest star beyond the sun.

Let’s get it on: The Heritage algorithm, as its called, powers a
simulation that determines the likelihood of humans reaching Proxima
Centauri using current technology. In order to get people there from
Earth, the mission would require multiple generations of people to live
their entire lives in space while the vehicle makes the millenniums-long
voyage. And that means the initial crew, and subsequent offspring, would
have a responsibility to procreate.

Go deeper: The simulation predicts survivability by taking various
breeding paradigms into consideration. It factors in variables such as
an unknown catastrophe which effectively wipes out one third of the
crew, and takes things like menopause, infertility, and inbreeding into
account.

According to the team’s white paper:

By restricting the offspring to being genetically pure, we found that
50±15 percent missions successfully reach their destination for
restricted mating between 25 initial breeding pairs. If the initial crew
is comprised of 34 initial breeding pairs, the chances to reach their
destination with a completely genetically healthy crew rise up to 94-98
percent. An initial ship with 98 settlers (49 initial breeding pairs)
ensures a mission with a 100 percent success rate at 3-σ significance.
We can then conclude that, under the parameters used for those
simulations, a minimum crew of 98 settlers is needed for a 6300-year
multi-generational space journey towards Proxima Centauri b.

The climax: According to Heritage, less than 100 people would be
absolutely necessary to breed our way across the universe to the nearest
star. This, of course, doesn’t take into account the various X factors
that could affect such a mission – for example, there’s no research on
fertility rates in deep space. And it’s unclear what the psychological
state of a group of people who’ve only ever lived on a traveling
spaceship would be like.

Would you make love across the cosmos to spread the seed of humanity to
distant planets and solar systems? And, more importantly, what would
your spaceship be called? Let us know in the comments.
Robert Carnegie
2018-06-29 22:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?

I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
Lynn McGuire
2018-06-30 00:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?
Do you have to ask ? Aren't you a guy ?

One of the ladies in the ISS reported lately that things went well. Or
maybe that was fake news.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
The passengers would be back to 50/50 men/women within a generation.
Unless, you abort the boys. Not cool.

Lynn
h***@gmail.com
2018-07-03 04:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?
Do you have to ask ? Aren't you a guy ?
One of the ladies in the ISS reported lately that things went well. Or
maybe that was fake news.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
The passengers would be back to 50/50 men/women within a generation.
Unless, you abort the boys. Not cool.
Not if you've sorted the frozen sperm by sex.
so during the voyage you only use sperm with an X-chromosome
(current methods are controversial and not 100%)
a425couple
2018-07-03 13:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?
I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.

Now, after arrival at a colonizable destination, if they
want as rapid a population build up as possible, sure.
So as they close in on ideal, it may be optimal to
tilt heavy towards females age 15 to 35. But, that
selection, may not be ideal in meeting the challenges
of the brand new planet.
Quadibloc
2018-07-03 15:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.

I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-07-03 15:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
So, are lesbians to be excluded form the crew, or bisexuals?
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-07-03 17:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
So, are lesbians to be excluded form the crew, or bisexuals?
Heh. Reminds me of when Queen Victoria was asked to approve
legislation outlawing homosexuality among men, and someone
suggested that the law be broadened to include homosexuality
among women as well. And Her Majesty asked, in honest
bewilderment, "Why? What could they *do* to each other?"
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Juho Julkunen
2018-07-04 11:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
So, are lesbians to be excluded form the crew, or bisexuals?
Heh. Reminds me of when Queen Victoria was asked to approve
legislation outlawing homosexuality among men, and someone
suggested that the law be broadened to include homosexuality
among women as well. And Her Majesty asked, in honest
bewilderment, "Why? What could they *do* to each other?"
She was in good company. The great thinkers of classical Greece assumed
lesbians (although at the time the word meant something different, the
women of that island having a reputation for promiscuity) had enlarged
clitorises, not being quite able to conceive of non-penetrative sex.

And sex, of course, was the only thing such vacuous creatures as women
were good for; true companionship and love could only exist between
men.
--
Juho Julkunen
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 05:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.

An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.

John Savard
David Johnston
2018-07-08 05:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
No. They don't.
J. Clarke
2018-07-08 05:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
It does? Source?
Robert Carnegie
2018-07-08 08:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
It does? Source?
I suppose it depends how you define "sodomy".

On this, some U.S. state legislatures were either not
very imaginative, or excessively so, depending on how
you look at it. (Of course, you also weren't allowed
to look at it.)

And what's this about "risk" and "needs to be avoided"?
I probably wouldn't want to go on board, but, for mission
success, just load up with happy homosexuals; this had
better be women since reproduction is intended. Besides
the sperm bank, female offspring probably can be
guaranteed by injections.

The problem, and this too may not really be a problem,
is when they colonise Centaurus and they vote to keep
taking the injections.
h***@gmail.com
2018-07-08 09:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
why
Post by Quadibloc
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
evidence?
Juho Julkunen
2018-07-08 12:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
--
Juho Julkunen
Kevrob
2018-07-08 13:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
There are legends about all-female boarding schools and colleges,
also. How accurate those tales, sometimes lurid, were or are I
leave to the better informed. Ex-nuns have written about lesbianism
in the convent.

The only "risk" I can think of is non-consensual sexual activity.
Absent other evidence, I'd presume the % of individuals who would
attempt that would not change much for a spaceship crew vs a similar
demographic slice here on earth.

I don't know if there is psychological screening that's of any use
at excluding those prone to commit sexual assault of any kind, but if
a test was available HR for the mission might want to employ it.

Kevin R
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 20:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
The only "risk" I can think of is non-consensual sexual activity.
And so if one makes sure not to allow any brooms on board the space ship...

(if we're going to be making movie references here...)

John Savard
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2018-07-08 15:14:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:24:19 +0300, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
"Joey"?
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
Kevrob
2018-07-08 17:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Juho Julkunen
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
"Joey"?
Jack, maybe, for M. Savard.

Kevin R
Juho Julkunen
2018-07-08 20:40:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:24:19 +0300, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
"Joey"?

--
Juho Julkunen
Dimensional Traveler
2018-07-08 19:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
Isn't that a line from the movie 'Airplane!'? :)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-08 19:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
Isn't that a line from the movie 'Airplane!'? :)
You've got to set these up better.

The correct way:

Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 20:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Yes it is, and don't call me Shirley!

John Savard
Juho Julkunen
2018-07-08 20:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Yes it is, and don't call me Shirley!
I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you.
--
Juho Julkunen
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-08 20:56:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Yes it is, and don't call me Shirley!
I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit usenet threads!
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 21:03:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Yes it is, and don't call me Shirley!
I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit usenet threads!
On the other hand, how could he manage to avoid having people call him "Leslie"?

But then, maybe that's not the problem. Leslie _is_ a man's name, shared by
Leslie Nielsen with Leslie Townes "Bob" Hope. The girl's name is Lesley, as
Lesley Gore, for example, illustrates.

John Savard
news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
2018-07-08 22:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Yes it is, and don't call me Shirley!
I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit usenet threads!
On the other hand, how could he manage to avoid having people call him "Leslie"?
But then, maybe that's not the problem. Leslie _is_ a man's name, shared by
Leslie Nielsen with Leslie Townes "Bob" Hope. The girl's name is Lesley, as
Lesley Gore, for example, illustrates.
Thank heaven for little girls like Leslie Caron
--
Mark
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 22:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
Thank heaven for little girls like Leslie Caron
...to prove me wrong yet again!

John Savard
Dimensional Traveler
2018-07-08 22:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Indeed, there's a good deal of "situational homosexuality"
in human history in same-sex environments, such as prisons,
or on long sea voyages. "Rum, sodomy and the lash" ring any
bells? Or, look into the history of the US Navy at Newport,
Rhode Island. It isn't/wasn't just the Brits.
That's precisely why an all-male crew needs to be avoided.
An all-female crew poses a much smaller risk along those lines.
Joey, have you ever been in a women's prison?
Isn't that a line from the movie 'Airplane!'? :)
You've got to set these up better.
Surely that's a line from 'Airplane!'
Don't call me Shirley.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
a425couple
2018-07-03 16:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
John Savard
You seem to be thinking that a large number of females
put together as a crew, would not have issues relating
to jealousy (about rank, ratings, duties, tasks, popularity
etc.)
I'd disagree.

I'm also pretty sure that the physical acts of sex
could not be successfully prohibited.
David Johnston
2018-07-03 17:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
...your naivete never fails to startle.
D B Davis
2018-07-03 20:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
If _Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls_ (Simmons)
describes a phenomena that applies to females regardless of age, then
you've bigger problems than merely avoiding sex.



Thank you,
--
Don
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-07-03 20:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
If _Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls_ (Simmons)
describes a phenomena that applies to females regardless of age, then
you've bigger problems than merely avoiding sex.
Very likely.

Although I *think* it might be easier to select a crew of females
who would not be grown-up mean girls than to select a crew of
males who would not figure out some way of having sex even if no
members of their favorite gender were present.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
D B Davis
2018-07-03 22:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
If _Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls_ (Simmons)
describes a phenomena that applies to females regardless of age, then
you've bigger problems than merely avoiding sex.
Very likely.
Although I *think* it might be easier to select a crew of females
who would not be grown-up mean girls than to select a crew of
males who would not figure out some way of having sex even if no
members of their favorite gender were present.
AFAIK DSM places the incidence of Cluster B personality disorders
somewhere in the neighborhood of one in seven. So it's probable that
you can find a small "clean" crew for Mars.
OTOH, if a Generation ship's population numbers in the thousands or
more, it's a near certainty that Narcs, Psychos, and other undesirables
are aboard. Is a Cluster B personality disorder strictly an inheritable
affliction, or does it manifest itself regardless of the parents? In
the latter case some undesirables will spring up no matter how
thoroughly you vet the initial population.



Thank you,
--
Don
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-07-04 00:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
If _Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls_ (Simmons)
describes a phenomena that applies to females regardless of age, then
you've bigger problems than merely avoiding sex.
Very likely.
Although I *think* it might be easier to select a crew of females
who would not be grown-up mean girls than to select a crew of
males who would not figure out some way of having sex even if no
members of their favorite gender were present.
AFAIK DSM places the incidence of Cluster B personality disorders
somewhere in the neighborhood of one in seven. So it's probable that
you can find a small "clean" crew for Mars.
OTOH, if a Generation ship's population numbers in the thousands or
more, it's a near certainty that Narcs, Psychos, and other undesirables
are aboard. Is a Cluster B personality disorder strictly an inheritable
affliction, or does it manifest itself regardless of the parents? In
the latter case some undesirables will spring up no matter how
thoroughly you vet the initial population.
You're undoubtedly right.

The random thought once went through my mind of a series of
murder mysteries aboard a generation ship, cleverly solved by Lt.
Cdr. Marple.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Gene Wirchenko
2018-07-08 05:32:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 00:00:28 GMT, ***@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The random thought once went through my mind of a series of
murder mysteries aboard a generation ship, cleverly solved by Lt.
Cdr. Marple.
I want to read it!

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Jay E. Morris
2018-07-09 17:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by D B Davis
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
If _Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls_ (Simmons)
describes a phenomena that applies to females regardless of age, then
you've bigger problems than merely avoiding sex.
Very likely.
Although I *think* it might be easier to select a crew of females
who would not be grown-up mean girls than to select a crew of
males who would not figure out some way of having sex even if no
members of their favorite gender were present.
AFAIK DSM places the incidence of Cluster B personality disorders
somewhere in the neighborhood of one in seven. So it's probable that
you can find a small "clean" crew for Mars.
OTOH, if a Generation ship's population numbers in the thousands or
more, it's a near certainty that Narcs, Psychos, and other undesirables
are aboard. Is a Cluster B personality disorder strictly an inheritable
affliction, or does it manifest itself regardless of the parents? In
the latter case some undesirables will spring up no matter how
thoroughly you vet the initial population.
You're undoubtedly right.
The random thought once went through my mind of a series of
murder mysteries aboard a generation ship, cleverly solved by Lt.
Cdr. Marple.
I'd like to pre-order it.
t***@gmail.com
2018-07-12 02:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
What if they are lesbians?
Kevrob
2018-07-12 02:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
What if they are lesbians?
You are about 8 days behind on that point.

Even if they were all straight women, having grown up in
a household with 5 sisters, I ask: what planet will you
recruit these jealousy-free people from? Sex/gender
doesn't even come into it. I also have 3 brothers, and
we weren't jealousy-free either.

I've seen worse fights over "you wore my sweater set/
sportcoat without asking" than over "you flirted with
my sweet baboo!"

Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-12 02:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by a425couple
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Indeed, for a voyage to Alpha Centauri.
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to
Mars, so that
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
What if they are lesbians?
You are about 8 days behind on that point.
Even if they were all straight women, having grown up in
a household with 5 sisters, I ask: what planet will you
recruit these jealousy-free people from? Sex/gender
doesn't even come into it. I also have 3 brothers, and
we weren't jealousy-free either.
I've seen worse fights over "you wore my sweater set/
sportcoat without asking" than over "you flirted with
my sweet baboo!"
I'm not your sweet baboo!
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kevrob
2018-07-12 03:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
I've seen worse fights over "you wore my sweater set/
sportcoat without asking" than over "you flirted with
my sweet baboo!"
I'm not your sweet baboo!
I should hope not!

NTTAWWT.

Kevin R
David DeLaney
2018-07-12 16:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so that
sex and jealousy can be avoided.
What if they are lesbians?
You are about 8 days behind on that point.
He just hasn't synced up yet.

Dave, it may take a few more decades
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
2018-07-12 16:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
I could see an all-female crew being of an advantage for a trip to Mars, so
that sex and jealousy can be avoided.
... and here we have a one-sentence encapsulation of JUST how obvious it is
that poor John has never dealt with ANY women in his life except, briefly, his
mother.

Dave, oy vey maria
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Robert Carnegie
2018-07-06 07:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?
I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Mainly the looks on the faces of all the young male
science fiction readers when they find out that the guaranteed sex life that they thought was on the cards
is blasting off without inviting them on board.

The easiest way to transport human genetic diversity
physically is in those little plastic pots, frozen.

And female humans as astronauts are lighter and take
up less space, although on reflection, their wardrobes
take up more. And shoes... maybe the ship should be
weightless, then no need for shoes.
Kevrob
2018-07-06 14:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by a425couple
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we know yet if weightless sex is worth the trouble?
I suspect that an all female crew and sperm bank would
be on board "Mother Nature's Silver Seed". And a seven
millennia (phbbbt) supply of turkey basters.
What are you seeing is the advantage of "all female crew" ?
During the journey seems to me a normal mix is probably
best for functions and morale.
Mainly the looks on the faces of all the young male
science fiction readers when they find out that the guaranteed sex life that they thought was on the cards
is blasting off without inviting them on board.
The easiest way to transport human genetic diversity
physically is in those little plastic pots, frozen.
And female humans as astronauts are lighter and take
up less space, although on reflection, their wardrobes
take up more. And shoes... maybe the ship should be
weightless, then no need for shoes.
In a weightless ship you still need booties with grip-tight
soles (velcro or whatnot) to walk on the walls, which will
have a grip-strip on them. Weightless wouldn't be good for
longterm health, though, would it?

Kevin R
Chris Zakes
2018-07-04 21:13:31 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 09:34:30 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser
Post by a425couple
from
https://thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2018/06/28/interstellar-space-travel-will-require-lots-of-sex/
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex
by TRISTAN GREENE — 1 day ago in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
(Lots of variation in population in generation ship stories in sci-fi,
from small of just a couple people, example "Orphans in the Sky", land
on new world, or 5 couples in "Seed of Light", to thousands in
"The Songs from Distant Earth")
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex Credit: Nicole Gray
https://tnw.to/x5GS6
A pair of scientists from France developed an algorithm to determine the
minimum amount of sexually active couples it would take to maintain a
human crew inside of a spaceship for 6,300 years – the time it would
take to reach the nearest star beyond the sun.
Let’s get it on: The Heritage algorithm, as its called, powers a
simulation that determines the likelihood of humans reaching Proxima
Centauri using current technology. In order to get people there from
Earth, the mission would require multiple generations of people to live
their entire lives in space while the vehicle makes the millenniums-long
voyage. And that means the initial crew, and subsequent offspring, would
have a responsibility to procreate.
Go deeper: The simulation predicts survivability by taking various
breeding paradigms into consideration. It factors in variables such as
an unknown catastrophe which effectively wipes out one third of the
crew, and takes things like menopause, infertility, and inbreeding into
account.
By restricting the offspring to being genetically pure, we found that
50±15 percent missions successfully reach their destination for
restricted mating between 25 initial breeding pairs. If the initial crew
is comprised of 34 initial breeding pairs, the chances to reach their
destination with a completely genetically healthy crew rise up to 94-98
percent. An initial ship with 98 settlers (49 initial breeding pairs)
ensures a mission with a 100 percent success rate at 3-? significance.
We can then conclude that, under the parameters used for those
simulations, a minimum crew of 98 settlers is needed for a 6300-year
multi-generational space journey towards Proxima Centauri b.
The climax: According to Heritage, less than 100 people would be
absolutely necessary to breed our way across the universe to the nearest
star. This, of course, doesn’t take into account the various X factors
that could affect such a mission – for example, there’s no research on
fertility rates in deep space. And it’s unclear what the psychological
state of a group of people who’ve only ever lived on a traveling
spaceship would be like.
Psychological state will be the real factor. The trip is calculated to
take some 6300 years. That's pretty much all of recorded human
history. Presuming they survive, the ship's inhabitants will have *no*
clue about things like "sky" or "weather" or (presuming the trip
starts using currently-available technology) "gravity." They'd be used
to nothing but a climate-controlled environment with walls and floors
around them at all times.

Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.

It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
GNU Terry Pratchett
Mind how you go.
J. Clarke
2018-07-04 22:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Zakes
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 09:34:30 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser
Post by a425couple
from
https://thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2018/06/28/interstellar-space-travel-will-require-lots-of-sex/
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex
by TRISTAN GREENE — 1 day ago in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
(Lots of variation in population in generation ship stories in sci-fi,
from small of just a couple people, example "Orphans in the Sky", land
on new world, or 5 couples in "Seed of Light", to thousands in
"The Songs from Distant Earth")
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex Credit: Nicole Gray
https://tnw.to/x5GS6
A pair of scientists from France developed an algorithm to determine the
minimum amount of sexually active couples it would take to maintain a
human crew inside of a spaceship for 6,300 years – the time it would
take to reach the nearest star beyond the sun.
Let’s get it on: The Heritage algorithm, as its called, powers a
simulation that determines the likelihood of humans reaching Proxima
Centauri using current technology. In order to get people there from
Earth, the mission would require multiple generations of people to live
their entire lives in space while the vehicle makes the millenniums-long
voyage. And that means the initial crew, and subsequent offspring, would
have a responsibility to procreate.
Go deeper: The simulation predicts survivability by taking various
breeding paradigms into consideration. It factors in variables such as
an unknown catastrophe which effectively wipes out one third of the
crew, and takes things like menopause, infertility, and inbreeding into
account.
By restricting the offspring to being genetically pure, we found that
50±15 percent missions successfully reach their destination for
restricted mating between 25 initial breeding pairs. If the initial crew
is comprised of 34 initial breeding pairs, the chances to reach their
destination with a completely genetically healthy crew rise up to 94-98
percent. An initial ship with 98 settlers (49 initial breeding pairs)
ensures a mission with a 100 percent success rate at 3-? significance.
We can then conclude that, under the parameters used for those
simulations, a minimum crew of 98 settlers is needed for a 6300-year
multi-generational space journey towards Proxima Centauri b.
The climax: According to Heritage, less than 100 people would be
absolutely necessary to breed our way across the universe to the nearest
star. This, of course, doesn’t take into account the various X factors
that could affect such a mission – for example, there’s no research on
fertility rates in deep space. And it’s unclear what the psychological
state of a group of people who’ve only ever lived on a traveling
spaceship would be like.
Psychological state will be the real factor. The trip is calculated to
take some 6300 years. That's pretty much all of recorded human
history. Presuming they survive, the ship's inhabitants will have *no*
clue about things like "sky" or "weather" or (presuming the trip
starts using currently-available technology) "gravity." They'd be used
to nothing but a climate-controlled environment with walls and floors
around them at all times.
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
I am getting so sick of this "gravity" business with long term space
travel.

Fucking DISNEY showed how to deal with that in the '50s and they
didn't originate the idea. You just need to rotate the damned ship.
This isn't magic. The question is how slowly it has to turn to
prevent rotation from causing secondary problems.

The "wheel in space" space stations weren't depicted like that because
they looked cool, they were depicted like that because it was a
practical design. And the reason we don't have one right now is
because NASA would rather distributed billions to manufacturers of
throwaway rockets as a jobs program for aerospace workers than develop
the technology to get things into space at a reasonable cost.
Post by Chris Zakes
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
Chris Zakes
2018-07-11 19:23:48 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 18:30:57 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Chris Zakes
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 09:34:30 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser
Post by a425couple
from
https://thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2018/06/28/interstellar-space-travel-will-require-lots-of-sex/
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex
by TRISTAN GREENE — 1 day ago in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
(Lots of variation in population in generation ship stories in sci-fi,
from small of just a couple people, example "Orphans in the Sky", land
on new world, or 5 couples in "Seed of Light", to thousands in
"The Songs from Distant Earth")
Interstellar space travel will require lots of sex Credit: Nicole Gray
https://tnw.to/x5GS6
A pair of scientists from France developed an algorithm to determine the
minimum amount of sexually active couples it would take to maintain a
human crew inside of a spaceship for 6,300 years – the time it would
take to reach the nearest star beyond the sun.
Let’s get it on: The Heritage algorithm, as its called, powers a
simulation that determines the likelihood of humans reaching Proxima
Centauri using current technology. In order to get people there from
Earth, the mission would require multiple generations of people to live
their entire lives in space while the vehicle makes the millenniums-long
voyage. And that means the initial crew, and subsequent offspring, would
have a responsibility to procreate.
Go deeper: The simulation predicts survivability by taking various
breeding paradigms into consideration. It factors in variables such as
an unknown catastrophe which effectively wipes out one third of the
crew, and takes things like menopause, infertility, and inbreeding into
account.
By restricting the offspring to being genetically pure, we found that
50±15 percent missions successfully reach their destination for
restricted mating between 25 initial breeding pairs. If the initial crew
is comprised of 34 initial breeding pairs, the chances to reach their
destination with a completely genetically healthy crew rise up to 94-98
percent. An initial ship with 98 settlers (49 initial breeding pairs)
ensures a mission with a 100 percent success rate at 3-? significance.
We can then conclude that, under the parameters used for those
simulations, a minimum crew of 98 settlers is needed for a 6300-year
multi-generational space journey towards Proxima Centauri b.
The climax: According to Heritage, less than 100 people would be
absolutely necessary to breed our way across the universe to the nearest
star. This, of course, doesn’t take into account the various X factors
that could affect such a mission – for example, there’s no research on
fertility rates in deep space. And it’s unclear what the psychological
state of a group of people who’ve only ever lived on a traveling
spaceship would be like.
Psychological state will be the real factor. The trip is calculated to
take some 6300 years. That's pretty much all of recorded human
history. Presuming they survive, the ship's inhabitants will have *no*
clue about things like "sky" or "weather" or (presuming the trip
starts using currently-available technology) "gravity." They'd be used
to nothing but a climate-controlled environment with walls and floors
around them at all times.
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
I am getting so sick of this "gravity" business with long term space
travel.
Fucking DISNEY showed how to deal with that in the '50s and they
didn't originate the idea. You just need to rotate the damned ship.
This isn't magic. The question is how slowly it has to turn to
prevent rotation from causing secondary problems.
Hmm. A fair point, and one I (foolishly) hadn't considered. So they'll
just have severe agoraphobia, weather, and trying to remember what
their mission is after 6000 years, to deal with. Basically the final
scene in Heinlein's "Orphans of the Sky."

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
GNU Terry Pratchett
Mind how you go.
Steve Dodds
2018-07-04 22:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
J. Clarke
2018-07-05 00:01:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 16:55:06 -0600, Steve Dodds
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
Or not. While it's nice to believe that faster than light travel is
possible, the lack of ET tax collectors suggests otherwise.
D B Davis
2018-07-05 15:50:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.

Note.

1. http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article332#FarCentaurus



Thank you,
--
Don
Paul Colquhoun
2018-07-06 06:59:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 15:50:43 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <***@crcomp.net> wrote:
| Steve Dodds <***@nova-optical.com> wrote:
|>>
|>> Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
|>> groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
|>> even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
|>> to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
|>>
|>> It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
|>> developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
|>> generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
|>>
|>> -Chris Zakes
|>> Texas
|>>
|>
|> There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
|> wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
|> 500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
|> People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
|> trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
|> years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
|> 1000 X faster.
|
| "Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
| of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
| version of the story. [1]
| AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
| plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
| Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
| my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
| too promising. Ergo my YASID.
|
| Note.
|
| 1. http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article332#FarCentaurus


All my books are packed away at the moment, but (from memory) "Mayflies"
by Kevin O'Donnell Jr, has this.

FTL is invented while they are part way, but Earth humans leave their
original destination alone, so they won't find anyone there first.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
D B Davis
2018-07-06 17:01:33 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Paul Colquhoun
| "Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
| of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
| version of the story. [1]
| AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
| plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
| Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
| my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
| too promising. Ergo my YASID.
|
| Note.
|
| 1. http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article332#FarCentaurus
All my books are packed away at the moment, but (from memory) "Mayflies"
by Kevin O'Donnell Jr, has this.
FTL is invented while they are part way, but Earth humans leave their
original destination alone, so they won't find anyone there first.
"Mayflies" rings a bell. Mostly because Carl brought it up last year in
RASW.
It turns out that my YASID actually involves a statis ship and not a
generation ship. It's an early Niven story named "Flatlander." See my
followup to Greg for more details.



Thank you,
--
Don
Greg Goss
2018-07-06 15:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
In the Honorverse backstory, the coldsleep ship heading for Manticore
left behind a foundation with good reserve funding. So when they got
to their destination, an FTL-based colony was already preparing their
infrastructure.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
D B Davis
2018-07-06 17:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by D B Davis
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
In the Honorverse backstory, the coldsleep ship heading for Manticore
left behind a foundation with good reserve funding. So when they got
to their destination, an FTL-based colony was already preparing their
infrastructure.
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.

Note.

1. http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Lightspeed_Leapfrog



Thank you,
--
Don
Greg Goss
2018-07-07 15:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.
Note.
1. http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Lightspeed_Leapfrog
Hmmm. That link agrees with you on "Flatlander". But I seem to
remember Flatlander as the trip to the antimatter system.

?

And I've never read the plot described there.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
D B Davis
2018-07-07 18:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by D B Davis
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.
Note.
1. http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Lightspeed_Leapfrog
Hmmm. That link agrees with you on "Flatlander". But I seem to
remember Flatlander as the trip to the antimatter system.
?
And I've never read the plot described there.
The /Lazy Eight II/ is more of a story feature (eg element) than a
plot in and of itself. Have you read the story? If so, perhaps an
excerpt from the story will jog your memory:

"Did they have anything worth while?" [asked Elephant]
"Yah. They'd found the /Lazy Eight II/." [said Beowulf]
The /Lazy Eight II/ had been one of the old slowboats, a
circular-flying wing taking colonists to Jinx. Something had
gone wrong before the turnover, and the ship had continued on,
carrying fifty passengers in suspended animation and a crew
of four, presumed dead. With a ramscoop to feed hydrogen to
her fusion drive, she could accelerate forever. She was five
hundred years on her way.

In the end, "Flatlander" (Niven) is my YASID. And that's the
important thing, to me.



Thank you,
--
Don
D B Davis
2018-07-08 03:25:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by D B Davis
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.
Note.
1. http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Lightspeed_Leapfrog
Hmmm. That link agrees with you on "Flatlander". But I seem to
remember Flatlander as the trip to the antimatter system.
?
And I've never read the plot described there.
The /Lazy Eight II/ is more of a story feature (eg element) than a
plot in and of itself. Have you read the story? If so, perhaps an
excerpt from the story will jog your memory:

"Did they have anything worth while?" [asked Elephant]
"Yah. They'd found the /Lazy Eight II/." [said Beowulf]
The /Lazy Eight II/ had been one of the old slowboats, a
circular-flying wing taking colonists to Jinx. Something had
gone wrong before the turnover, and the ship had continued on,
carrying fifty passengers in suspended animation and a crew
of four, presumed dead. With a ramscoop to feed hydrogen to
her fusion drive, she could accelerate forever. She was five
hundred years on her way.

In the end, "Flatlander" (Niven) is my YASID. And that's the
important thing, to me.

*addendum*

OK, your concern over the plot summary at the link is now clear to me.
The link says "who later use their FTL technology to rescue the crew and
colonists on that ship." But that part of the story doesn't appear in
"Flatlander" nor any other Niven, AFAIK.
The /Lazy Eight/ element is a Niven literary doodle in the margin.
It teases but it doesn't go anywhere. That probably explains my
difficulty in remembering it in the first place.
"Lazy Eight" is the figure eight rotated by 90 degrees. It's an
infinity sign.



Thank you,
--
Don
Greg Goss
2018-07-08 05:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
OK, your concern over the plot summary at the link is now clear to me.
The link says "who later use their FTL technology to rescue the crew and
colonists on that ship." But that part of the story doesn't appear in
"Flatlander" nor any other Niven, AFAIK.
The /Lazy Eight/ element is a Niven literary doodle in the margin.
It teases but it doesn't go anywhere. That probably explains my
difficulty in remembering it in the first place.
"Lazy Eight" is the figure eight rotated by 90 degrees. It's an
infinity sign.
Lazy Eight II was the Jinx colony ship. Lazy Eight was an intrasystem
cruise ship in World of Ptavvs.

There are a lot of bits and pieces of Nivenania scattered in random
places. Silvereyes is a short piece explaining what happened to the
guy who got the co-ordinates of the Puppeteer home system (Only they
weren't there when he got back there.)

From Mote in Got's Eye, the Horst bomb incident is somewhere on the
web, the scene introducing Rob before the main story starts is
somewhere else on the web, and the "lost preface" was a cover story in
Galaxy - dunno ifi it's on the web.

I presume that there are lots of other "lost stories" scattered around
in our current disjointed publishing world. So Niven may have come
back and written the Lazy Eight II rescue and published it where I'd
never see it.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
David DeLaney
2018-07-12 16:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Greg Goss
In the Honorverse backstory, the coldsleep ship heading for Manticore
left behind a foundation with good reserve funding. So when they got
to their destination, an FTL-based colony was already preparing their
infrastructure.
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.
Also dealt with by Charles Sheffield, thugh without atual FTL, just a
multigravity constant-boost ship, using vacuum energy extraction and
(apparently) neutronium, catching up with a generation ship out in exo-Solar
space.

Dave, the ship was designed to allow the passengers to experience a 1G field
- and had its own story when the compensation needle developed a flaw on the
test flight
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Magewolf
2018-07-12 17:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by D B Davis
Post by Greg Goss
In the Honorverse backstory, the coldsleep ship heading for Manticore
left behind a foundation with good reserve funding. So when they got
to their destination, an FTL-based colony was already preparing their
infrastructure.
"Lightspeed leapfrog" is the requisite magical incantation. It conjures
up a wiki that enumerates all such stories. [1] It turns out that my
YASID pertains to a statis ship and not a generation ship.
My YASID is "Flatlander" (Niven). The story features Elephant,
Beowulf Shaeffer and the /Lazy Eight II/, a ramscoop statis ship that
missed her destination and was at the edge of Known Space after five
hundred years.
Also dealt with by Charles Sheffield, thugh without atual FTL, just a
multigravity constant-boost ship, using vacuum energy extraction and
(apparently) neutronium, catching up with a generation ship out in exo-Solar
space.
Dave, the ship was designed to allow the passengers to experience a 1G field
- and had its own story when the compensation needle developed a flaw on the
test flight
This also happens in Space Fantasia 2001 Nights an anime adapted from
the 2001 Nights manga. Earth sends out sub-lightspeed seed ships with
frozen embryos to be raised by the ship's computer once they get to
their target planet. But while the trip is going on Earth develops
faster than light drives and the donors of the embryos set up a
foundation to jump ahead to the planet and terraform it so that when the
seedship gets there they will have a livable planet waiting.

1***@compuserve.com
2018-07-06 16:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2". By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway, it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.

JimboCat
--
In the good old days, the complaints about how everything is going to hell were much more sophisticated and erudite than they are today.
D B Davis
2018-07-06 17:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway,
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.

"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."

"I don’t get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.

Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.



Thank you,
--
Don
D B Davis
2018-07-06 17:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway,
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.



Thank you,
--
Don
a425couple
2018-07-08 17:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway,
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
As I'm reading the above, They are being kept out in space
in quarantine, and they are not allowed to marry?
That sounds like a life time prison sentence!
Very bad for last one left old and alive!!!

Why do they not try going to another planet?
And reproduce as they go?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-08 18:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet,
and anyway,
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
As I'm reading the above, They are being kept out in space
in quarantine, and they are not allowed to marry?
That sounds like a life time prison sentence!
Very bad for last one left old and alive!!!
Why do they not try going to another planet?
And reproduce as they go?
He didn't say that was the end of the story. And it wasn't.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2018-07-08 22:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Steve Dodds
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus. It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation. The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People. People had been there for 300 years. So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway,
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
As I'm reading the above, They are being kept out in space
in quarantine, and they are not allowed to marry?
That sounds like a life time prison sentence!
Very bad for last one left old and alive!!!
Why do they not try going to another planet?
And reproduce as they go?
Tom Holt's modern fantasy novel _Flying Dutch_(man)
also uses a premise that the crew (and this was the
real, poetically unsuitable problem) smell terribly,
terribly bad. Possibly only when they're on land.

I think in actual history this was believed to
encourage reproduction, and historical fact is that
people managed. Holt's story's premise is, I think,
that these guys smell worse than that. I don't know
about van Vogt's.

Apparently most people who drink cow's milk smell of
it, to people who don't. But I usually take soya
but I mostly don't find other people's odour distasteful.
Maybe soya is worse as well. It does smell bad when
it's stale.
David Johnston
2018-07-08 23:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
Post by 1***@compuserve.com
Post by D B Davis
Post by Chris Zakes
Severe agoraphobia, bone density loss, and atrophying of major muscle
groups would only be the start of their problems, presuming that they
even *remembered* what their mission was supposed to be, and knew how
to land and get out of the ship after six millenia.
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
       -Chris Zakes
               Texas
There was a book or story back in the 60's called Far Centaurus.  It
wasn't a generation ship but used suspended animation.  The trip took
500 years, and after they got there and woke up, guess what they found.
People.  People had been there for 300 years.  So instead of spending
trillions of dollars on a generation ship that will take thousands of
years, wait 100 years and technology will have found a way to get there
1000 X faster.
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
     AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a
similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Not your YASID, but of course there is also Delany's "The Ballad of Beta-2".
By the time they get there, they're not fit to colonize a planet, and anyway,
it's already occupied, so they're quarantined in their ships. Story is about
a grad student who makes them his thesis project IIRC.
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
    The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
    "I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
    It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
    yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
    or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
    should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
    machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
    give up the idea."
    "I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
    both.
    Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
    becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
    damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
As I'm reading the above, They are being kept out in space
in quarantine, and they are not allowed to marry?
That sounds like a life time prison sentence!
Very bad for last one left old and alive!!!
Why do they not try going to another planet?
They escape in an extremely ridiculous manner. Van Vogt never worried
about making sense.
Post by a425couple
And reproduce as they go?
D B Davis
2018-07-09 17:05:58 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by a425couple
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
As I'm reading the above, They are being kept out in space
in quarantine, and they are not allowed to marry?
That sounds like a life time prison sentence!
Very bad for last one left old and alive!!!
Why do they not try going to another planet?
And reproduce as they go?
The story's freely available online. [1] It's a short read.
Fifty men travel in statis as "human popsicles" to Centauri. Their
trip takes about five hundred years. When they arrive five hundred years
into their future they discover that humans already already inhabit
Centauri.
The trip from Earth to Centauri now only takes three hours. Human
BO evolved during the past five hundred years and now humans smell like
perfume. The perfumed prince from the future called Cassellahat
discovers that the crusty five hundred old human popsicle named Blake
stinks to the high heavens. Cassellahat more-or-less advises Blake and
the others to stay in a self-imposed exile, a virtual quarantine.
Blake's ship is not a generation ship; there's no stinky females on
board for procreation. It's Cassellahat's opinion, that Centauri's
perfumed females won't touch Blake and his with a hundred mile pole,
more-or-less.
As Ted said, this is not the end of the story. Van Vogt's denouement
uses a deus ex machina (that David finds ridiculous) to make everything
right in the end.
Antares plays a role in the denouement. Antares means "compared with
Ares" because both star and planet have a reddish hue. It's the
brightest star in the constellation Scorpius, which now appears in the
Northern hemisphere to observers who look South on a cloudless night.
Yet another fabulous Zodiac constellation named Sagittarius appears
slightly lower and to the East of Scorpius. The Summer Triangle [2]
asterism composed of Altair, Deneb, and Vega appears well North of both
constellations, directly overhead for the most part.
A while ago we played a game with the Winter Hexagon. [3] The idea's
to enumerate sfnal story's that mention the stars that belong to a
particular asterism.
"Agent of Vega" (Schmitz), for instance, includes a titular Summer
Triangle star. Is there a "Sfnal Grand Slam" story that includes all
three stars: Altair, Deneb, and Vega?

Note.

1. http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article332#FarCentaurus
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Triangle
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_hexagon



Thank you,
--
Don
a425couple
2018-07-11 13:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by a425couple
Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
It turns out that there's not a generation ship in my YASID after all.
It's a statis ship and the story's "Flatlander" (Niven).
The occupants of the van Vogt generation ship are virtually
quarantined. Because they stink.
"I must, however," Cassellahat went on, "give you a warning.
It is important that you do not disillusion our peoples about
yourselves. Therefore, you must never wander around the streets,
or mingle with the crowds in any way. Always, your contact
should be via newsreels, radio, or from the inside of a closed
machine. If you have any plan to marry, you must now finally
give up the idea."
"I don't get it!" Blake said wonderingly; and he spoke for us
both.
Cassellahat finished firmly: "It is important that no one
becomes aware that you have an offensive physical odor. It might
damage your financial prospects considerably.
Oh FFS this whole statis subthread stinks! Regardless of what the
Subject: says, it's all about /statis/ ships. The occupants of van
Vogt's /statis/ ship are virtually quarantined.
Thank you,
Please help me understand.
------
Post by D B Davis
The story's freely available online. [1] It's a short read.
Fifty men travel in statis as "human popsicles" to Centauri. Their
trip takes about five hundred years. When they arrive five hundred years
into their future they discover that humans already already inhabit
Centauri.
The trip from Earth to Centauri now only takes three hours. Human
BO evolved during the past five hundred years and now humans smell like
perfume. The perfumed prince from the future called Cassellahat
discovers that the crusty five hundred old human popsicle named Blake
stinks to the high heavens. Cassellahat more-or-less advises Blake and
the others to stay in a self-imposed exile, a virtual quarantine.
Blake's ship is not a generation ship; there's no stinky females on
board for procreation. It's Cassellahat's opinion, that Centauri's
perfumed females won't touch Blake and his with a hundred mile pole,
more-or-less.
As Ted said, this is not the end of the story. ----
Thank you.
Gene Wirchenko
2018-07-08 05:51:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 15:50:43 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <***@crcomp.net>
wrote:

[snip]
Post by D B Davis
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" is close to being of the genre.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
a425couple
2018-07-08 17:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
Post by D B Davis
"Far Centaurus" (van Vogt) was first published in the January 1944 issue
of _Astounding_. Thanks to Ted, it's possible to link to an online
version of the story. [1]
AFAIK, the van Vogt was never read by me. But a story with a similar
plot was read by me. FWIW (not much) it "feels" like it ought to be a
Haldeman or a Laumer or a Russel or a Shaw or something. Unfortunately
my search on "obsolete generation ship ftl science fiction" doesn't look
too promising. Ergo my YASID.
Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" is close to being of the genre.
Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko
Yes! They had gone far, and messaged information back home,
then lost touch, lost a bunch of crew and most morale.
Debate over continuing, or starting long trip back to Earth,
got terminated by message from new Faster than Light ship
(made possible by their messaging) that they were closing in
and would meet, and quickly transport them home.
h***@gmail.com
2018-07-05 00:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Zakes
Psychological state will be the real factor. The trip is calculated to
take some 6300 years. That's pretty much all of recorded human
history. Presuming they survive, the ship's inhabitants will have *no*
clue about things like "sky" or "weather" or (presuming the trip
starts using currently-available technology) "gravity." They'd be used
to nothing but a climate-controlled environment with walls and floors
around them at all times.
Really depends what technology level the ship has.
It's certainly possible that it could project sky, simulate weather etc.
Post by Chris Zakes
It'd make a lot more sense to wait--in 6300 years, we'll probably have
developed FTL travel, and would get to Proxima Centauri long before a
generation ship using rockets and coasting did.
I'm not sure there's any current evidence suggesting that faster than light travel is possible
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 20:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
I'm not sure there's any current evidence suggesting that faster than light
travel is possible
There certainly isn't, not really. However, the theories concerning the Alcuiberre
warp drive show that the door may not be absolutely closed.

What we do have evidence of, though, is that technological progress is real.

One book I read about the prospects of interstellar travel noted that while with
our current technology, one could envisage a ship travelling to Alpha Centauri,
say, at a top speed of 0.01 c, going beyond that to 0.1 c would not only require
being able to manipulate antimatter on a large scale, it would also require as-
yet unimaginable technologies to protect the ship from destructive collisions
with the interstellar medium, tenuous though it is.

A sublight ship taking 800 years to get to Alpha Centauri, then, even in the
absence of faster-than-light propulsion, might be overtaken by one that only
needs 80 years to get to Alpha Centauri which was launched some 600 years later.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2018-07-08 21:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by h***@gmail.com
I'm not sure there's any current evidence suggesting that faster than light
travel is possible
There certainly isn't, not really. However, the theories concerning the Alcuiberre
warp drive show that the door may not be absolutely closed.
What we do have evidence of, though, is that technological progress is real.
One book I read about the prospects of interstellar travel noted that while with
our current technology, one could envisage a ship travelling to Alpha Centauri,
say, at a top speed of 0.01 c, going beyond that to 0.1 c would not only require
being able to manipulate antimatter on a large scale, it would also require as-
yet unimaginable technologies to protect the ship from destructive collisions
with the interstellar medium, tenuous though it is.
A sublight ship taking 800 years to get to Alpha Centauri, then, even in the
absence of faster-than-light propulsion, might be overtaken by one that only
needs 80 years to get to Alpha Centauri which was launched some 600 years later.
John Savard
About the interstellar medium, could the first ship
that is sent sort of sweep it out of the way, so it
is safe to follow behind? Assuming that the first ship
doesn't dump garbage, deceased crew (including
accidentally), or a series of nuclear bombs as
propulsion behind it (it's been tried).
Dimensional Traveler
2018-07-08 22:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by h***@gmail.com
I'm not sure there's any current evidence suggesting that faster than light
travel is possible
There certainly isn't, not really. However, the theories concerning the Alcuiberre
warp drive show that the door may not be absolutely closed.
What we do have evidence of, though, is that technological progress is real.
One book I read about the prospects of interstellar travel noted that while with
our current technology, one could envisage a ship travelling to Alpha Centauri,
say, at a top speed of 0.01 c, going beyond that to 0.1 c would not only require
being able to manipulate antimatter on a large scale, it would also require as-
yet unimaginable technologies to protect the ship from destructive collisions
with the interstellar medium, tenuous though it is.
A sublight ship taking 800 years to get to Alpha Centauri, then, even in the
absence of faster-than-light propulsion, might be overtaken by one that only
needs 80 years to get to Alpha Centauri which was launched some 600 years later.
John Savard
About the interstellar medium, could the first ship
that is sent sort of sweep it out of the way, so it
is safe to follow behind? Assuming that the first ship
doesn't dump garbage, deceased crew (including
accidentally), or a series of nuclear bombs as
propulsion behind it (it's been tried).
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Quadibloc
2018-07-08 22:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
*cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy also came from Britain, but that's a big enough
place that it shouldn't be confused with Money Python, even if they're both funny.

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-07-09 01:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dimensional Traveler
*cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy also came from Britain, but that's a big enough
place that it shouldn't be confused with Money Python, even if they're both funny.
Money Python: the amateur comedy troupe at The LSE?

Kevin R
Greg Goss
2018-07-09 06:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Quadibloc
2018-07-09 19:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-07-09 20:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.

Kevin R
Leif Roar Moldskred
2018-07-09 20:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
He did do a small amount of writing for Monty Python, and even had a couple
of apperances in _Monty Python's Flying Circus_ and he also did some non-Python
work with Graham Chapman.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred
Kevrob
2018-07-09 21:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
He did do a small amount of writing for Monty Python, and even had a couple
of apperances in _Monty Python's Flying Circus_ and he also did some non-Python
work with Graham Chapman.
Cracking! He comes by that flavor in his own work honestly.

I spent a day, once, when DA was flogging the book "Last Chance to See,"
escorting him to various radio studios in Milwaukee [WHAD and WUWM,
the local National Bolshevik radio outlets] so he could be interviewed,
then back to the bookstore at Water and Wisconsin for a book signing.
There was an astonishingly long, and well-behaved line of people.
Many books, and towels, were signed.

A year later he was dead, damnit.

Kevin R
Greg Goss
2018-07-10 04:15:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Moriarty
2018-07-10 05:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
He wrote for Python too, very briefly, and also appeared in the show.

-Moriarty
David Goldfarb
2018-07-11 04:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
Actually it was the work for which Adams is best known,
_The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.
--
David Goldfarb |"Come on, characters with super-strength don't
***@gmail.com | *do* inertia! Or leverage."
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Dani Zweig
Greg Goss
2018-07-11 05:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
Actually it was the work for which Adams is best known,
_The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.
Notice the "at the time" in my attempted correction. We all knew that
bit.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Juho Julkunen
2018-07-11 12:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dimensional Traveler
How wide a tunnel would you expect a ship could sweep? And how precise
would the following ships' navigation have to be to follow within that
light years long needle eye? *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is
big"*
He was already an EX Monty Python writer at the time.
Douglas Adams wrote for Monty Python? One learns something new every day.
I don't think so. Now, DOCTOR WHO? Yes, he wrote for that.
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
Actually it was the work for which Adams is best known,
_The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.
Notice the "at the time" in my attempted correction. We all knew that
bit.
And, to be entirely fair, Python did have *a* bit about how big space
is, even if it isn't *the* bit.


--
Juho Julkunen
Quadibloc
2018-07-11 11:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who


there's The Who


and then there's the Guess Who


and then there's Doctor Who.


John Savard
Quadibloc
2018-07-11 11:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
And, come to think of it, in Canada, we had Who, What, Where, When, and Why in the weekly news program W5...



and then later


(well, the part starting from 3:16 at least)

John Savard
Quadibloc
2018-07-11 11:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
http://youtu.be/9LoFLS4wnKE
(well, the part starting from 3:16 at least)

...starting from 3:22

John Savard
Peter Trei
2018-07-11 12:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
And, come to think of it, in Canada, we had Who, What, Where, When, and Why in the weekly news program W5...
http://youtu.be/mREi_Bb85Sk
and then later
http://youtu.be/9LoFLS4wnKE
(well, the part starting from 3:16 at least)
Rudyard Kipling
"I Keep Six Honest..."

I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.

[...]

https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/i_keep_six_honest.html
Kevrob
2018-07-11 11:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.

Kevin R
D B Davis
2018-07-11 14:06:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
_Who?_ (Budrys) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who%3F_(novel)



Thank you,
--
Don
Kevrob
2018-07-11 14:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
_Who?_ (Budrys) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who%3F_(novel)
Who's on first.

Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-11 16:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
_Who?_ (Budrys) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who%3F_(novel)
✍
Thank you,
--
Don
Don't forget The Wonder Who:

--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Scott Lurndal
2018-07-11 18:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by D B Davis
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
_Who?_ (Budrys) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who%3F_(novel)
Don't forget The Wonder Who: http://youtu.be/KryO3-XnCq4
Or the L'engle Mrs. Who.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-07-11 15:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Greg Goss
Sigh. Yes it was Who. I appreciate the correction.
There's Who
http://youtu.be/G_9R0vrvYa8
there's The Who
http://youtu.be/4AKbUm8GrbM
and then there's the Guess Who
http://youtu.be/O3LTmDUAhMM
and then there's Doctor Who.
http://youtu.be/75V4ClJZME4
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
And the Whos the Grinch steals Christmas from.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Kevrob
2018-07-11 16:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
You forgot the Who Horton heard.
And the Whos the Grinch steals Christmas from.
Same Whos, same Whoville.

Kevin R
Jack Bohn
2018-07-09 10:31:43 UTC
Permalink
 *cue the Monty Python bit about "space is 
big"* 
"There are three types of distances: wee, less wee, and FREAKING HUGE!"
--
-Jack
Loading...