Discussion:
YASID - Avenging your own death
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Amicus Brevis
2021-05-24 01:32:45 UTC
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Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.

Regards
James Nicoll
2021-05-24 01:34:29 UTC
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Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Amicus Brevis
2021-05-24 01:45:43 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Thanks. I'll take a look.


Regards
Amicus Brevis
2021-05-24 01:57:44 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I should add that in the story I have in mind, it was not obvious that the man had been murdered. In fact, he did not get much support in his mission. But like Morgan's _Altered Carbon_, it turnedd out that his murder had important implications for the world.



Regards
Robert Woodward
2021-05-24 05:03:16 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Didn't Varley's "The Phantom of Kansas" have a similar plot?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2021-05-24 13:36:51 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Didn't Varley's "The Phantom of Kansas" have a similar plot?
Minus the years of missing memories.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-24 05:01:20 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Expanding on that, there's Vance's _To Live Forever._ The human
race consists of the inhabitants of a city, whose population
consistst of two classes: an individual can chose which to be
(but no backsies).

There are those who hope to have a chance at living forever, and
they strive to become famous/magnificently accomplished/worthy of
immortality. If they succeed in maintaining their "slope" for a
period of years, they are admitted to the society of the
immortals; they're given a set of clones who go into hibernation
until/unless the current clone maintaining the personality dies,
whereupon the next clone takes his/her place. The original
usually suicides once the population of clones is established.
If anyone doesn't achieve sufficient slope, one day he is visited
by his assassin.

Or, there are those who choose to live their lives au naturel, as
it were, living until they die of natural causes.

I'm not going to go into the plot.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Amicus Brevis
2021-05-24 15:08:20 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Expanding on that, there's Vance's _To Live Forever._ The human
race consists of the inhabitants of a city, whose population
consistst of two classes: an individual can chose which to be
(but no backsies).
There are those who hope to have a chance at living forever, and
they strive to become famous/magnificently accomplished/worthy of
immortality. If they succeed in maintaining their "slope" for a
period of years, they are admitted to the society of the
immortals; they're given a set of clones who go into hibernation
until/unless the current clone maintaining the personality dies,
whereupon the next clone takes his/her place. The original
usually suicides once the population of clones is established.
If anyone doesn't achieve sufficient slope, one day he is visited
by his assassin.
Or, there are those who choose to live their lives au naturel, as
it were, living until they die of natural causes.
I'm not going to go into the plot.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
_To Live Forever_ is the book I was looking for. I even remembered the protagonist's name as soon as I saw it! Horrible memory, but it is not so bad once it gets a jog.

Thanks and regards!
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-24 17:10:32 UTC
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Post by Amicus Brevis
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Expanding on that, there's Vance's _To Live Forever._ The human
race consists of the inhabitants of a city, whose population
consistst of two classes: an individual can chose which to be
(but no backsies).
There are those who hope to have a chance at living forever, and
they strive to become famous/magnificently accomplished/worthy of
immortality. If they succeed in maintaining their "slope" for a
period of years, they are admitted to the society of the
immortals; they're given a set of clones who go into hibernation
until/unless the current clone maintaining the personality dies,
whereupon the next clone takes his/her place. The original
usually suicides once the population of clones is established.
If anyone doesn't achieve sufficient slope, one day he is visited
by his assassin.
Or, there are those who choose to live their lives au naturel, as
it were, living until they die of natural causes.
I'm not going to go into the plot.
_To Live Forever_ is the book I was looking for. I even remembered the
protagonist's name as soon as I saw it! Horrible memory, but it is not
so bad once it gets a jog.
Thanks and regards!
You're very welcome! *I* can't remember the protagonist's name.
(I can remember the name of the city, though: Clarges.)

I *think* I still have a copy of the book, but I'm not going to
go look for it at present. I think I've mentioned before how I
live in a flat with two "bedrooms", but they're both in use as
storerooms, mostly full of books, but also well-equipped with
stashes of fabric and electronics. And if I go into either of
those rooms, one or both of the cats will either follow me in, or
camp at the door until I try to get out, they'll dart in and take
a great deal of maneuvering to get them out again. (I have to
get Hal to invigilate in the hallway with a broom to keep them at
a distance till I make my escape, which I'm not going to do,
because I hear him typing away at a furious rate. Probably
somebody on the Internet is WRONG. :)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Amicus Brevis
2021-05-25 01:40:58 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Expanding on that, there's Vance's _To Live Forever._ The human
race consists of the inhabitants of a city, whose population
consistst of two classes: an individual can chose which to be
(but no backsies).
There are those who hope to have a chance at living forever, and
they strive to become famous/magnificently accomplished/worthy of
immortality. If they succeed in maintaining their "slope" for a
period of years, they are admitted to the society of the
immortals; they're given a set of clones who go into hibernation
until/unless the current clone maintaining the personality dies,
whereupon the next clone takes his/her place. The original
usually suicides once the population of clones is established.
If anyone doesn't achieve sufficient slope, one day he is visited
by his assassin.
Or, there are those who choose to live their lives au naturel, as
it were, living until they die of natural causes.
I'm not going to go into the plot.
_To Live Forever_ is the book I was looking for. I even remembered the
protagonist's name as soon as I saw it! Horrible memory, but it is not
so bad once it gets a jog.
Thanks and regards!
You're very welcome! *I* can't remember the protagonist's name.
(I can remember the name of the city, though: Clarges.)
I *think* I still have a copy of the book, but I'm not going to
go look for it at present. I think I've mentioned before how I
live in a flat with two "bedrooms", but they're both in use as
storerooms, mostly full of books, but also well-equipped with
stashes of fabric and electronics. And if I go into either of
those rooms, one or both of the cats will either follow me in, or
camp at the door until I try to get out, they'll dart in and take
a great deal of maneuvering to get them out again. (I have to
get Hal to invigilate in the hallway with a broom to keep them at
a distance till I make my escape, which I'm not going to do,
because I hear him typing away at a furious rate. Probably
somebody on the Internet is WRONG. :)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
I have started reading the book. It is definitely the book I remembered vaguely. At first, I was thrown by your comment, "He was not murdered". But once I started reading, encountered a name. And as soon as I saw the name, the whole story came back to me. My memory of the storyline was broadly correct - but only broadly. Thanks again. This book has crossed my mind on and off for thirty years. You have made my year so far!


Regards
William Hyde
2021-05-24 19:55:19 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_.
But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to
avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K
Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I
can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that
storyline.
Regards
It's not 40 years old but Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind? Man
wakes up to learn he is a clone with taped memories years out of date.
Someone murdered his original and the clone sets out to learn why.
Expanding on that, there's Vance's _To Live Forever._ The human
race consists of the inhabitants of a city, whose population
consistst of two classes: an individual can chose which to be
(but no backsies).
Well, the rest of the world is populated also, by "barbarians" who outnumber the inhabitants of Clarges vastly.
One of the main characters gets her Amaranth status by disguising herself and living in the Gondwanan empire for a few years, writing a brilliant series of articles on their art and music. She is almost a hundred when she achieves this, with a decade or so to spare before the assassins visit.
There are those who hope to have a chance at living forever, and
they strive to become famous/magnificently accomplished/worthy of
immortality. If they succeed in maintaining their "slope" for a
period of years, they are admitted to the society of the
immortals; they're given a set of clones who go into hibernation
until/unless the current clone maintaining the personality dies,
whereupon the next clone takes his/her place. The original
usually suicides once the population of clones is established.
If anyone doesn't achieve sufficient slope, one day he is visited
by his assassin.
Or, there are those who choose to live their lives au naturel, as
it were, living until they die of natural causes.
The "Glarks", about 20% of the population. It seems that they can enter the system at any time, but as you say, the reverse is not allowed.

William Hyde
J. Clarke
2021-05-24 04:00:56 UTC
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On Sun, 23 May 2021 18:32:45 -0700 (PDT), Amicus Brevis
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.
Not the one you're looking for but that is the main storyline in
Seanan McGuire's "Ghost Roads" trilogy ("Sparrow Hill Road", "The Girl
in the Green Silk Gown", and "Angel of the Overpass").
Amicus Brevis
2021-05-24 15:00:44 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.
Not the one you're looking for but that is the main storyline in
Seanan McGuire's "Ghost Roads" trilogy ("Sparrow Hill Road", "The Girl
in the Green Silk Gown", and "Angel of the Overpass").
Is it his ghost that is seeking vengeance? I can't handle ghost stories.


Regards
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-24 15:45:41 UTC
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Post by Amicus Brevis
Post by J. Clarke
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.
Not the one you're looking for but that is the main storyline in
Seanan McGuire's "Ghost Roads" trilogy ("Sparrow Hill Road", "The Girl
in the Green Silk Gown", and "Angel of the Overpass").
Is it his ghost that is seeking vengeance? I can't handle ghost stories.
Regards
Yes, there are ghosts who manifest as real humans for a while. But the
ghosts try to help people, not much revenge.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2021-05-24 15:58:42 UTC
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On Mon, 24 May 2021 08:00:44 -0700 (PDT), Amicus Brevis
Post by Amicus Brevis
Post by J. Clarke
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.
Not the one you're looking for but that is the main storyline in
Seanan McGuire's "Ghost Roads" trilogy ("Sparrow Hill Road", "The Girl
in the Green Silk Gown", and "Angel of the Overpass").
Is it his ghost that is seeking vengeance? I can't handle ghost stories.
Hers. I don't like ghost stories either, however I tried this one on
the basis that Seanan McGuire has never disappointed me, and she
delivered again.

For openers, the villain in this piece, having murdered Rose, is not
done with her, so for much of it it's a human chasing a ghost and the
ghost evading.

There's a whole big universe in which events take place that is an
interesting trip in its own right.

Note that this is placed in the same universe as the Incryptid
stories--in fact the events in "Angel of the Overpass" result from
events in "That Ain't Witchcraft".
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-24 17:15:04 UTC
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.... I don't like ghost stories either, however I tried this one on
the basis that Seanan McGuire has never disappointed me, and she
delivered again.
For openers, the villain in this piece, having murdered Rose, is not
done with her, so for much of it it's a human chasing a ghost and the
ghost evading.
There's a whole big universe in which events take place that is an
interesting trip in its own right.
Note that this is placed in the same universe as the Incryptid
stories--in fact the events in "Angel of the Overpass" result from
events in "That Ain't Witchcraft".
I love the Incryptid stories, chiefly because of the Aeslin mice.
Without them, the Incryptids would cross to the other side of the
"too grim for me" boundary, joining the rest of Seanan's work. I
know Seanan, mostly through my daughter, her close friend and
former co-worker. I like her a lot. But I have a very narrow
tolerance for grimth.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-24 04:07:12 UTC
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Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's _Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40 years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear about any book with that storyline.
Regards
"The Door into Summer" by Robert Heinlein ???
https://www.amazon.com/Door-into-Summer-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0345330129/

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-24 05:02:57 UTC
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Post by Amicus Brevis
Post by Amicus Brevis
Just about everyone who has read sci fi knows about C J Cherry's
_Cyteen_. But I recall reading another very enjoyable story about a
man determined to avenge his death - and no, I am not talking about the
book by Richard K Morgan. This is a much older story. At least 40
years old. That is all I can remember. But it would be nice to hear
about any book with that storyline.
Post by Amicus Brevis
Regards
"The Door into Summer" by Robert Heinlein ???
https://www.amazon.com/Door-into-Summer-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0345330129/
Fine book, replete with just vengeance and cats. But the
protagonist isn't murdered. I can say no more...
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Martin
2021-05-25 14:42:02 UTC
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Not the story in question, but another one for this category might be _Who Censored Roger Rabbit?_ (the book on which the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" was based).
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