Discussion:
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2018-07-12 19:18:30 UTC
Permalink
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/

Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it. I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.

Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.

Weber has already written the first ending to the Safehold books and
published it. I suspect that there will be another ending for the
Safehold series. Maybe many.
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/443-how-safehold-wont-end.html

My rating: 4 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.2 out of 5 stars (531 reviews)

Lynn
David Johnston
2018-07-12 19:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
   https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
Is it a space opera series? It's been nine books and no space. I find
your lack of space travel disturbing.
Lynn McGuire
2018-07-12 20:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
    https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
Is it a space opera series?  It's been nine books and no space.  I find
your lack of space travel disturbing.
The action is currently happening on a colony of Earth. The only action
in space currently is the Ghaba searching for them, off camera.

There will be space soon.

Lynn
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-12 19:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Weber has already written the first ending to the Safehold books and
published it. I suspect that there will be another ending for the
Safehold series. Maybe many.
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/443-how-safehold-wont-end.html
My rating: 4 out of 5 stars
My rating is somewhat lower. Weber obviously felt (correctly) that it was dragging along too long, and ended things. I saw the ending coming. I've seen the ending coming for several books. It was obvious that the only practical ending would be something along the lines of what happened.

spoiler space










there would just have had to be an internal coup to get the Grand Inquisitor out, and it was very obvious that the only one who could pull off that coup would be the Good Shepard. The only question was how it would be done.

One reason why I only buy ebooks from Weber now is that he's started to telegraph his endings even worse than he did in the beginning.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Amazon rating: 4.2 out of 5 stars (531 reviews)
I would rate it at best 3.5 stars out of 5. At best.

Book #10 is due out in January. We'll see if a new beginning allows for better writing. I doubt it, based on past experience.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2018-07-12 23:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
...

Weber specifically said in the book that he was putting maps and a
character list on his website in the book preface. The maps are on his
website but I could not find the reputed 40K character list.
http://www.davidweber.net/downloads/index/recent/series:6

Lynn
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-13 21:35:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
...
Weber specifically said in the book that he was putting maps and a
character list on his website in the book preface. The maps are on his
website but I could not find the reputed 40K character list.
http://www.davidweber.net/downloads/index/recent/series:6
Lynn
Weber said that he'd have the maps and the character list up but 'not in the immediate future'. I suppose that demand for the maps was a lot higher than demand for a list of yet more dead spear-carriers, so he got the maps up and called it a day. Contact him for more. He may/may not bother to reply. He may/may not bother to post the list, if he even has it.

I got the maps quite some time ago, and even printed some of them out to have while reading the book. They were quite useful. A list of spear-carriers would not have been even remotely useful, and I didn't go looking for one until I saw your post.
Lynn McGuire
2018-07-14 02:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
...
Weber specifically said in the book that he was putting maps and a
character list on his website in the book preface. The maps are on his
website but I could not find the reputed 40K character list.
http://www.davidweber.net/downloads/index/recent/series:6
Lynn
Weber said that he'd have the maps and the character list up but 'not in the immediate future'. I suppose that demand for the maps was a lot higher than demand for a list of yet more dead spear-carriers, so he got the maps up and called it a day. Contact him for more. He may/may not bother to reply. He may/may not bother to post the list, if he even has it.
I got the maps quite some time ago, and even printed some of them out to have while reading the book. They were quite useful. A list of spear-carriers would not have been even remotely useful, and I didn't go looking for one until I saw your post.
I contacted his website faq manager. They replied that Weber never gave
them the character list.

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2018-07-16 02:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
...
Weber specifically said in the book that he was putting maps and a
character list on his website in the book preface. The maps are on his
website but I could not find the reputed 40K character list.
http://www.davidweber.net/downloads/index/recent/series:6
Lynn
Weber said that he'd have the maps and the character list up but 'not in the immediate future'. I suppose that demand for the maps was a lot higher than demand for a list of yet more dead spear-carriers, so he got the maps up and called it a day. Contact him for more. He may/may not bother to reply. He may/may not bother to post the list, if he even has it.
I got the maps quite some time ago, and even printed some of them out to have while reading the book. They were quite useful. A list of spear-carriers would not have been even remotely useful, and I didn't go looking for one until I saw your post.
I contacted his website faq manager. They replied that Weber never gave
them the character list.
Lynn
A list probably exists if only to avoid having
too many characters named Roger, but it may be not
in suitable form for publication; being used for
private composition, it could include discarded and
erroneous plot information, or spoilers for developments
not entirely discarded - or developments transposed
into other books.
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-16 18:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series.
It's not a space opera. There's very little space involved after the first few pages of the first book.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
I buy them as ebooks. I'm not paying hardback prices for Weber's output, not anymore.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
Look in the last section of book #8. There's a list of all characters up to that book. There are additional characters in book #9, of course, but most of the new ones end up dead fairly quickly anyway.
...
Weber specifically said in the book that he was putting maps and a
character list on his website in the book preface. The maps are on his
website but I could not find the reputed 40K character list.
http://www.davidweber.net/downloads/index/recent/series:6
Lynn
Weber said that he'd have the maps and the character list up but 'not in the immediate future'. I suppose that demand for the maps was a lot higher than demand for a list of yet more dead spear-carriers, so he got the maps up and called it a day. Contact him for more. He may/may not bother to reply. He may/may not bother to post the list, if he even has it.
I got the maps quite some time ago, and even printed some of them out to have while reading the book. They were quite useful. A list of spear-carriers would not have been even remotely useful, and I didn't go looking for one until I saw your post.
I contacted his website faq manager. They replied that Weber never gave
them the character list.
Lynn
This does not surprise me.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-13 06:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
I've seen the ending coming for several books. It was obvious that the
only practical ending would be something along the lines of what
happened.
spoiler space
there would just have had to be an internal coup to get the Grand
Inquisitor out, and it was very obvious that the only one who could pull
off that coup would be the Good Shepard. The only question was how it
would be done.
With the huge problem that he has been a longtime viewpoint character
whose thoughts we have shared. So, somehow *this* never crossed his
mind before?
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-13 21:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
I've seen the ending coming for several books. It was obvious that the
only practical ending would be something along the lines of what
happened.
spoiler space
there would just have had to be an internal coup to get the Grand
Inquisitor out, and it was very obvious that the only one who could pull
off that coup would be the Good Shepard. The only question was how it
would be done.
With the huge problem that he has been a longtime viewpoint character
whose thoughts we have shared. So, somehow *this* never crossed his
mind before?
It never crossed his mind while we were paying attention. He's a very disciplined man. That, or Weber needed a quick way to end this mess before it dragged on any further. I know which way I think.

The Good Shepard was literally the only senior churchman who could possibly pull off the coup, and a coup was literally the only way to get rid of the Grand Inquisitor short of the entire Siddemarkian and Charisian armies laying siege to Zion, and that wasn't going to happen and had been said to not going to happen for good and sufficient reason (unknown power sources under the Temple, for one thing) so, again, the only question was how it was going to happen. It also had to happen soon, if not in that book then in the next, as one more campaigning season would see the destruction of either the Mighty Host or the combined Siddemarkian/Charisian armies in a replay of Operation Bagration.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-13 06:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_At the Sign of Triumph: A Novel in the Safehold Series (#9)_ by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/At-Sign-Triumph-Novel-Safehold/dp/0765364638/
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it. I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Wow, the cast of millions is still growing. I can just remember three
of them, the emperor, his wife, and Merlin the Pica. There is reputedly
a list of the 1,000+ named characters on the Weber's website but I
cannot find it.
In the beginning, it was Merlin's story. The emperor and his wife... ok.
1000 characters... no.

We are so far from the story I started following that when Merlin falls
in love (with a woman, when "he" was originally a straight woman himself,
which ought to have been an interesting story in itself..) we barely get
a paragraph about it, yet we have page after page about Sgt. Exposition
about whom we care nothing and who exists to catch a bullet.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Joe Bernstein
2018-07-14 22:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.

Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.

Joe Bernstein

* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
Ahasuerus
2018-07-15 01:10:21 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 6:56:56 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernstein wrote:
[snip-snip]
Post by Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle" [snip]
Well, de Camp had <80 pulp pages to tell his story (the novel version
was revised.) It's hard to juggle multiple threads when you barely have
a novella worth of real estate.
Lynn McGuire
2018-07-15 02:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.
Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-15 02:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.
Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Don't know about that, but Weber's charmed circle got way out of hand.
I started reading a story about Merlin and ended up with him a fairly
minor character.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-16 18:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.
Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Don't know about that, but Weber's charmed circle got way out of hand.
I started reading a story about Merlin and ended up with him a fairly
minor character.
Not only is Merlin a minor character, but so are most of the original main characters. And Merlin is really _two_ minor characters, counting Nimue as one, and each of the two have minor alter egos as well.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-07-16 21:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.
Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Don't know about that, but Weber's charmed circle got way out of hand.
I started reading a story about Merlin and ended up with him a fairly
minor character.
Not only is Merlin a minor character, but so are most of the original
main characters. And Merlin is really _two_ minor characters, counting
Nimue as one, and each of the two have minor alter egos as well.
That's one thing I liked about the Powder Mage books and Wexler's. You
have actions on a Napoleonic scale, but the focus is always zoomed in,
not zoomed out.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Woodward
2018-07-15 05:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
<SNIP>
Post by Lynn McGuire
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Xenophobic aliens killing all intelligent species they can find? (Weber
has done that several times)
Or is it the corrupt anti-tech religion with a secret high-tech core?

That part in _Heirs of Empire_ came from his notes for the Safehold
series (it had been developed at the same time as Honor Harrington, but
Jim Baen bought that, not Safehold).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
J. Clarke
2018-07-15 06:04:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 22:13:24 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
<SNIP>
Post by Lynn McGuire
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Xenophobic aliens killing all intelligent species they can find? (Weber
has done that several times)
Or is it the corrupt anti-tech religion with a secret high-tech core?
That part in _Heirs of Empire_ came from his notes for the Safehold
series (it had been developed at the same time as Honor Harrington, but
Jim Baen bought that, not Safehold).
I'm surprised that it hasn't occurred to him to have some xenophobic
aliens get a load of Manticore.
Panthera Tigris Altaica
2018-07-16 18:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
<SNIP>
Post by Lynn McGuire
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Xenophobic aliens killing all intelligent species they can find? (Weber
has done that several times)
He also appears to be a baseball fanatic to a level difficult to believe, possibly exceeding the stratospheric levels achieved by Harry Turtledove. At least one Turtledove story had every single human character named for a baseball player, and of course Sam Yeager in the Lizard books was a minor leaguer. (And if you were paying attention, there were several characters there who shared names with baseball players there too.)
Scott Lurndal
2018-07-16 19:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Robert Woodward
=20
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
=20
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000=
+
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding wa=
s
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
=20
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
=20
<SNIP>
Post by Lynn McGuire
=20
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
=20
Xenophobic aliens killing all intelligent species they can find? (Weber=
=20
Post by Robert Woodward
has done that several times)
He also appears to be a baseball fanatic to a level difficult to believe,
Yeah, Both Tom Smoltz and Raphael Furcal make appearances in
the Safehold books, which would imply he's a Braves fan (not
unbelievable for someone who lives in SoCarol).
Kevrob
2018-07-31 19:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panthera Tigris Altaica
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
<SNIP>
Post by Lynn McGuire
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Xenophobic aliens killing all intelligent species they can find? (Weber
has done that several times)
He also appears to be a baseball fanatic to a level difficult to believe, possibly exceeding the stratospheric levels achieved by Harry Turtledove. At least one Turtledove story had every single human character named for a baseball player, and of course Sam Yeager in the Lizard books was a minor leaguer. (And if you were paying attention, there were several characters there who shared names with baseball players there too.)
Looking back, I'm surprised HT didn't have Moe Berg infiltrating
behind the Race's lines in Poland, and hooking up with a partisan
unit, the way he did in OTL's Yugoslavia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_Berg

Kevin R
d***@gmail.com
2018-08-02 00:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Lynn McGuire
Book number nine of a ten book space opera series. I read the 1,000+
page MMPB. The book was well typeset and printed but the binding was
coming apart when I was finished reading it.
Ha. I read the first three or four and wrote about them in my book
log, remarking that as long as pages < publication year I'd probably
continue reading, but not until I'd stopped logging, since it was
embarrassing, given the books' significant flaws.
Volumes I haven't read yet are in various inaccessible parts of my
storage unit, but I definitely don't have nine, probably not even
seven.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I will purchase and read
the tenth book when it is available in MMPB. BTW, my prediction for the
number of books in the series is now 27 as we have just completed the
first portion of the three stage series.
Still, 27,000 is a lot of pages to read, so we'll see. Safehold
belongs to a class of series I think of myself as liking - my clunky
name is "industrial revolutions started by multiple people". (In
contrast to, e.g., <Lest Darkness Fall>.) But come to think, the
examples I've liked are Stirling's (Nantucket) and Flint's (163X),
and they're now equaled by examples I have rather more mixed feelings
about (Stross's Merchant Princes and Weber's *). So I guess we'll see.
Joe Bernstein
* Hmmm. It could be argued that Safehold is more like <Lest Darkness
Fall>. I mean, none of it happens without Merlin. But it doesn't
*feel* anything like <Lest Darkness Fall>, because in one of Weber's
merits, he gives his natives considerable agency, much more than I
remember de Camp giving his. Put another way, de Camp's is a story
of one guy; Weber's, so far as I've read, is a story of a reasonable-
sized "charmed circle", by which I mean a subset of the characters
who become viewpoint characters, are reliably good guys with most
goals in common, and wind up with boringly happy marriages as a
direct result of the books' events. I don't think Stross does that
last, but otherwise all four series have charmed circles.
IMHO, Safehold is a retelling of Weber's Dahak series.
Lynn
More exactly it is a reworking of the 3rd book of that series, which in turn is largely a reimagining of Piper' Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, IMO.

-DES

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